WEBVTT

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Good morning I'm Major Shamik

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Delancy and have the pleasure of being

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today's moderator for the inaugural 4th

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Infantry Division Multi-domain

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Operation symposium . The purpose of

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today is to discuss and gain a greater

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understanding of the Army's operational

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concept , multi-domain operations , and

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how the 4th Infantry division and our

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joint force partners understand , train

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for , and execute MDO . Before we get

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started , I'd like to thank some of our

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distinguished visitors we have in

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attendance today . We have several

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federal staffers from the Colorado

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delegation in attendance today and many

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other distinguished visitors both here

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in person and on our virtual audience .

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Additionally , we have leadership from

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various units across the army and other

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services in McMahon Auditorium and in

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our virtual audience . Thank you for

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being here with us today . Today's

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symposium is constructed into 3 parts .

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Following Major General Doyle's opening

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remarks , Lieutenant Colonel Cook from

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the Combined Arms Doctrine Directorate

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will present to us the doctrinal

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evolution of Army MDO . And how multi

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domain operations relates to our joint

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force partners . Part two of the

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symposium is a panel discussion

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featuring our expert MDO practitioners

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from across the joint force . The third

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part of the symposium is the question

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and answer portion . As a reminder ,

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this is an unclassified brief , so

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please keep your questions and the

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discussion at that security level . I'd

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like to introduce the commanding

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general of the 4th Infantry Division

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and Fort Carson , Major General Doyle .

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Yeah , it , it is absolutely great to

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be here . Thank you for joining us .

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For those of you who are in person ,

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especially like to say thanks to some

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people who made a trip from , you know ,

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a great distance despite the crazy

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weather , you know , around here we get

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3 inches of snow and we don't even have

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a 2 hour delay , but you get 3 inches

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of snow at Fort Moore , they are shut

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down for a week . So some of the folks

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that came out here made a Herculean

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effort . Uh , so thank you to the team

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from the 75th Ranger Regiment . Thank

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you to the team , the large team that

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came here from the 101st Airborne

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Division Airsault . Uh , appreciate the

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3rd , uh , 353rd CA command that's here

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and US Space and Missile Defense . So ,

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uh , a lot of these folks made a

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genuine effort to be here in person .

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You heard some of the distinguished

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visitors , uh , who are participating

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in today's event . And that's the key

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word uh that I want to stress here

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today . This is designed to be

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interactive . This is designed for

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participation . This is not a lecture .

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These will not be briefings . So I met

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a captain and company commander . I'm

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gonna call on him to make sure he has a

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question ready , but every single one

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of you should feel like you have the

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opportunity to engage and participate .

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And so for our first block you're gonna

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hear about the army's perspective on

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doctrine and . Uh , Carl Cook's gonna

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talk for about 30 minutes , and he's

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gonna open it up for question and

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answer because he was in , uh , part of

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the process that designed the doctrine

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with input from the field . So he's

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gonna give about a 30 minute overview

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and then open it up for question and

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answer . The panel members obviously

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you're gonna talk about . Their field ,

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but then we're gonna open it up for

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questions and then the , the Q&A is by

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design intended for that and we , we

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hope to get questions from folks that

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are out there . Uh , we have almost

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1500 people right now , uh , and I

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think we're gaining momentum on our MS

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teams , uh , site . Uh , we've got some

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fantastic people who are gonna be the

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panel members introduced to you here

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shortly . Uh , with experience and

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skill , and they wanna answer questions

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and hopefully you're gonna ask them

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difficult questions , challenging

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questions , maybe things that they

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haven't thought about so we can have a

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dialogue and that's important because

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the army is not finished with

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multi-domain operations . It is not

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gospel and irrevocable . It is growing ,

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changing , and being adapted on a

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regular basis , so the doctrine is the

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baseline and you're gonna hear that .

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But your involvement , your

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participation could provoke and inspire

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additional ideas that can get

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introduced into the doctrine and then

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uniformly shared . Just letting you

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know we've got division uh deputy

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commanding generals from almost every

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single division in the United States

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Army on . We've got chiefs of staff

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from major unit commands that are on

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right now . We've got individuals who

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care at the command General Staff

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College , so the discussion and

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dialogue we have should spark some of

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the ideas that go in different

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directions and different places .

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Lastly . This is about multi-domain

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operations practice , OK ? We're gonna

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start with the doctrine and we're gonna

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talk about the concepts , but the most

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important thing that we can do ,

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especially for the audience in this

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room . I talk about employment and

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practice . Command Mayor Carodi is

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gonna bring some points home that'll

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matter to company grade officers ,

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first sergeants , platoon leaders , and

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platoon sergeants , because if we keep

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this at the theoretical level , if we

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keep it at the esoteric level , it

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doesn't have the value that it needs to

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in our way of war because I'm convinced

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that during your time in the service ,

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whatever service you're in , whatever

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branch you're in , you will face an

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adversary who wants to kill you . And

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if you don't believe that , then you

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need to get out . Because our soldiers

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deserve the very best leadership that

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they can get and people who are

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committed to winning that fight

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wherever it may be against whoever it

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may be against , you have to be

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dedicated to your profession . Your

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tendency here speaks to that , but your

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involvement will help us follow through .

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All right , so ladies and gentlemen , I

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am exceedingly glad to introduce

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Lieutenant Colonel Cook . He's gonna

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come up here and , uh , share with you

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the things about our army's doctrine

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that deal with multi-domain operations .

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So ladies and gentlemen , please

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welcome Colonel Cook .

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General Doyle , Sar Major Karti , uh ,

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ladies and gentlemen in the audience

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and online , thank you very much for

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the opportunity . As the CG said , my

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name is Chris Cook . I work at the

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Combined Arms Doctrine Directorate .

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I'm the chief of operational Level

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Doctrine . On behalf of my boss , Mr .

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Richard Creed , thank you for the

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opportunity to engage with you all

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today . We get a significant amount out

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of forums like this and our

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interactions , not just from the

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briefing itself , but then the feedback

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and our ability to incorporate that

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into future iterations of doctrines .

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So thank you . Uh , as the CG said , my

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task today is to provide a brief

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overview of multi-domain operations as

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described in FM 30 as a primer for the

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rest of today's conversations , uh ,

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primarily a refresher , not designed to

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make anybody an expert , also not

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designed to insult anybody's

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intelligence . Uh , you'll recognize

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most of what we're gonna talk about

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today either from PME , some of your

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discussions and how we fight in your

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LPDs , um . And various other uh

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interactions you've had over the past

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two years since we published this book .

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Uh , we do have more detailed briefings

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available if you want to do a deeper

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dive into this , and I'll introduce

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some of that at the back end . I'll

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provide you some links where you can or

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you can find those and then offer up

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some contact information . So as you go

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through your training regimens and as

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you go through today and your

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deployments , if you have feedback that

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you think we need to integrate into the

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doctrine , we can do so and we'll take

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that into the next iteration at FM 30 .

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Uh , so where we sit doctrine wise

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overall we published FM 30 as you guys

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see it in late 2022 , and the ideas

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found in that manual are now trickling

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their way through the uh ADPs and into

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some of the echelon books that you're

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familiar with in terms of training and

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operations . Slide please . So I'm

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gonna talk a little bit about where

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those ideas come from and where we have

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been as a background we'll talk about

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how those ideas are integrated against

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a new strategic environment and then

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we'll talk about some key ideas based

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off of what we're gonna talk about in

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the panel discussions and throughout

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the rest of the day . So over the last

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40 years we've had 4 major operational

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concepts . I think everyone in the room

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and everyone online recognizes at least

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2 of these either from PME or training

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or again discussions , um , each of

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these build off of each other . And all

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of them center around the idea of

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combined arms . All of them embrace

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technologies available all of them to

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some degree integrate capabilities from

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multiple domains . So a little bit easy

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at the onset to say because my tactics

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haven't really changed that for example

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the squad level we are just conducting

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the same operations that we always have .

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So what does this mean to me and why do

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I need to pay attention ? Uh , it's ,

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it's really helpful in each of these to

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look at what problem we are trying to

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apply our foundation of combined arms

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against in order to see how we employ

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it . So in the early 1980s and 1990s

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you recognize airland battle . This is

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really the culmination of about 40

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years of trying to cope with the Soviet

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threat and the Warsaw Pact in Eastern

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Europe . Very clearly has a uh

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multi-domain approach embedded right in

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the the title , but this is how we

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combined air and ground power to defeat

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the Soviet second echelon . We undergo

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a major change in strategic environment

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in the late 1980s early 1990s as the

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Soviet Union falls and the Warsaw Pact

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dissolves , and we find ourselves in

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this position where the regional powers

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that have been set on the back burner

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and maybe violent extremist

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organizations rise to prominence . And

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so we have to adapt that thinking to

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apply military power ground power

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against threats other than what we

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would now call large scale combat

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operations against the Soviet Union .

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So you see a couple of things in this

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period . The , the first one is that

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dramatic change in context and really

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results in a a situation where the US

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and by extension our allies are

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completely unchallenged in all domains .

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And then the second piece of that is

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because of that we begin to focus very

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heavily on simultaneity , so we are

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able to really as you see in the first

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Persian Gulf War . Deploy unchallenged

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from home station , build an iron

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mountain to establish our locks , and

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then attack an enemy across his entire

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depth . Uh , this idea as we get into

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the global war on terror transitions

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into unified land operations which

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starts to incorporate those lessons

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against violent extremist organizations

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and actions against regional powers ,

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uh , so we start to build those lessons

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in at the same time in the early 2010s

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you begin to see the rise of near peer

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threats . So in 2017 you see an update

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to unify land operations and how we

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integrate all of those . Against the

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potential for large scale combat and

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the emergence of a threat that can

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challenge you in one maybe two domains

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at a time . So then you get to 2022

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research that really began in 2019 ,

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culminating in 2022 . What does that

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look like and how are we trying to

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apply those problems to the current

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strategic environment ? If you go to

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the next slide , please . So what has

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changed in our environment overall ?

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Our regional actors are what became

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known as rogue regimes acting contrary

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to the , the organized order . They

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remain a threat . Uh , violent

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extremist organizations and terrorists

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remain a threat , arguably are never

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going to go away or remain in some form

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of contact with them forever . Uh But

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you see , particularly with respect to

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a China and Russia , nations that have

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begun to reach technological parity .

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And really focused on lessons learned

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from observing the first person Gulf

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War and then the opening rounds of OIF

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and preventing that from happening to

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them or their interests , so they have

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gone , gone to school on us and they've

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begun to build durable systems and

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systems of systems that can challenge

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our joint force not in just one domain

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for a specific period of time , but in

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all domains and potentially gain some

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advantage over us in some of those

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domains and maintain that . You've seen

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them become very adept at things like

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information warfare and trying to

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control the narrative , entering into a

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fight . You've seen at the same time as

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we adjust our force posture and begin

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to pull back from postured forces

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around the world , deploying primarily

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from home station . You've seen them

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focus on developing area denial systems

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and processes designed to raise the

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cost of entry for the joint force and

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keep us out . And you end up in this

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place where they're always going to

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have a strategic and operational

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advantage based off of our force

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posture . They're always going to be

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more familiar with the operational

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environment based on proximity to their

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terrain . They're gonna have greater

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magazine depth . They're gonna have

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less distance to move their troops or

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reposition their troops . And based off

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of these advantages and increasing

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parity and technology , you see an

13:07.959 --> 13:10.014
increased willingness , particularly

13:10.014 --> 13:12.181
with a country like China or Russia to

13:12.181 --> 13:13.903
commit to a large scale combat

13:13.903 --> 13:16.126
operations which did not truly occur in

13:16.126 --> 13:19.260
the preceding 30 years . Um ,

13:19.950 --> 13:21.894
And when we talk about large scale

13:21.894 --> 13:24.117
combat operations for perspective we're

13:24.117 --> 13:25.894
talking about the commitment of

13:25.894 --> 13:28.006
hundreds of thousands of personnel on

13:28.006 --> 13:30.179
both sides and organized into really

13:30.179 --> 13:32.059
either the core or armies or the

13:32.059 --> 13:34.349
equivalents . And you're talking about

13:34.349 --> 13:36.127
an expanded battlefield over an

13:36.127 --> 13:39.309
extremely large distance but congested

13:39.309 --> 13:41.549
by the numbers of forces involved and

13:41.549 --> 13:43.438
just right off the bat that poses

13:43.438 --> 13:45.327
incredible challenges in terms of

13:45.327 --> 13:47.216
sustainment , command and control

13:47.216 --> 13:49.438
before you ever go back and account for

13:49.438 --> 13:51.493
the fact that the the pure adversary

13:51.493 --> 13:53.549
could contest you in all domains and

13:53.549 --> 13:55.660
create incredible problems for you uh

13:55.660 --> 13:57.827
so you have now the situation where we

13:57.827 --> 14:00.969
are applying our focus to Lisco . Based

14:00.969 --> 14:03.136
off of that highest end threat that we

14:03.136 --> 14:05.510
can face , which poses a potential

14:05.510 --> 14:07.621
existential threat to our interests .

14:08.669 --> 14:11.849
And we are accepting risk in terms of

14:11.849 --> 14:15.570
adjusting to or modifying our approach

14:15.570 --> 14:17.403
to a regional actor or a violent

14:17.403 --> 14:21.070
extremist organization . Slide please .

14:22.609 --> 14:25.010
So multi-domain operations is really

14:25.010 --> 14:27.770
our answer to to that and how the army

14:27.770 --> 14:29.770
forces overcome those challenges as

14:29.770 --> 14:32.710
part of the US joint . Uh , so how do

14:32.710 --> 14:34.488
we employ land power to achieve

14:34.488 --> 14:36.710
objectives for a joint force commanders

14:36.710 --> 14:38.821
set to the backdrop of the conditions

14:38.821 --> 14:40.988
of large scale combat operations ? You

14:40.988 --> 14:43.099
can read the definition there . The ,

14:43.099 --> 14:44.988
the key points are italicized and

14:44.988 --> 14:46.988
underlined . So we're talking about

14:46.988 --> 14:49.154
taking our core combined arms approach

14:49.229 --> 14:51.285
and expanding it to include all army

14:51.285 --> 14:53.451
capabilities and joint capabilities as

14:53.451 --> 14:55.507
we seek to create advantages for the

14:55.507 --> 14:57.890
Joint Force commander . As we look at

14:57.890 --> 14:59.668
each of these bullets that that

14:59.668 --> 15:02.000
describes it , um , really as you look

15:02.000 --> 15:04.359
at the first one , the , the core of

15:04.359 --> 15:06.415
this depends on our understanding of

15:06.415 --> 15:08.526
the combined arms approach . I talked

15:08.526 --> 15:10.748
to our major at length last night , and

15:10.748 --> 15:12.803
we understand that this is just very

15:12.803 --> 15:14.915
hard from the very beginning . Simply

15:14.915 --> 15:17.081
integrating at the company and platoon

15:17.081 --> 15:19.248
level organic capabilities to you is ,

15:19.248 --> 15:21.470
is challenging . Uh , the , the process

15:21.470 --> 15:23.303
of integrating your mortars into

15:23.303 --> 15:25.299
operations is . It is hard for a

15:25.299 --> 15:27.739
company . The process of integrating

15:27.739 --> 15:29.795
air power is hard for a brigade or a

15:29.795 --> 15:32.400
division . Uh , here we are building on

15:32.400 --> 15:34.456
that idea that every organization or

15:34.456 --> 15:36.233
every specialty in the army has

15:36.233 --> 15:38.400
strengths and weaknesses and that we ,

15:38.400 --> 15:40.960
uh , excuse me , uh , we're building on

15:40.960 --> 15:43.016
the idea that every organization has

15:43.016 --> 15:44.849
strengths and weaknesses . Every

15:44.849 --> 15:47.016
specialty performs a specific role and

15:47.016 --> 15:49.238
how you integrate and synchronize those

15:49.559 --> 15:51.392
specialties to achieve an effect

15:51.392 --> 15:53.503
greater than each of their own can on

15:53.503 --> 15:55.960
their own . Adding that to how do we

15:55.960 --> 15:58.071
perform complementary and reinforcing

15:58.071 --> 16:00.071
roles with not just our own organic

16:00.071 --> 16:01.627
capabilities but also joint

16:01.627 --> 16:04.940
capabilities available to us . Uh , and

16:04.940 --> 16:06.979
then expanding that idea a little

16:06.979 --> 16:10.890
further into how do you do that as . A

16:11.260 --> 16:13.427
company as a battalion or as a brigade

16:13.427 --> 16:15.593
when those assets are not allocated to

16:15.593 --> 16:17.760
you , but you understand that they are

16:17.760 --> 16:19.982
conducting operations and those effects

16:19.982 --> 16:22.780
may benefit you in some way . As you

16:22.780 --> 16:26.270
look at the 2nd bullet here . Really an

16:26.270 --> 16:28.590
acknowledgement that for the last 20

16:28.590 --> 16:32.359
years . As a primary ground force , the

16:32.440 --> 16:34.630
Land Component command has enjoyed

16:35.229 --> 16:37.396
status that everything really revolved

16:37.396 --> 16:40.440
around and supported land operations as

16:40.440 --> 16:42.510
we look at a large scale combat

16:42.510 --> 16:45.070
operations fight , particularly in an

16:45.070 --> 16:47.237
environment like the Pacific . There's

16:47.237 --> 16:49.292
an acknowledgement that that may not

16:49.292 --> 16:51.126
always be the case . We may find

16:51.126 --> 16:53.181
ourselves in a position where ground

16:53.181 --> 16:55.403
power is used to extend the operational

16:55.403 --> 16:57.237
reach of air power or developing

16:57.237 --> 16:59.292
capabilities we have and things like

16:59.292 --> 17:01.514
the multi-domain task force may be used

17:01.514 --> 17:03.626
to expand things like sea control for

17:03.626 --> 17:05.626
maritime forces and so you start to

17:05.626 --> 17:07.681
think here about what do we bring to

17:07.681 --> 17:09.949
the fight . How do we enable those

17:09.949 --> 17:12.116
around us and then how do those around

17:12.116 --> 17:14.189
us enable us in order to achieve

17:14.189 --> 17:16.411
results for the Joint Force commander .

17:16.819 --> 17:18.930
Uh , the next idea is that it applies

17:18.930 --> 17:21.290
to all echelons , so everything that we

17:21.290 --> 17:23.609
do relies on integrating capabilities

17:23.609 --> 17:25.910
from multiple domains . Um

17:27.650 --> 17:29.483
Everything we do plays a role in

17:29.483 --> 17:31.706
operations overall , and everyone needs

17:31.706 --> 17:34.039
to understand what is available to them ,

17:34.039 --> 17:36.150
what they provide , and what they can

17:36.150 --> 17:38.150
benefit from . As you see increased

17:38.150 --> 17:40.094
integration of technology since we

17:40.094 --> 17:42.150
published even in 2022 , our primary

17:42.150 --> 17:44.094
focus was on the core headquarters

17:44.094 --> 17:46.261
integrating these as we integrate more

17:46.261 --> 17:48.428
technology in a short period of time ,

17:48.428 --> 17:50.483
you're likely to see that level move

17:50.483 --> 17:52.817
down lower into the tactical formations .

17:53.400 --> 17:55.567
And then the other piece of that is we

17:55.567 --> 17:57.733
need to understand this enemy that can

17:57.733 --> 17:59.733
challenge us in all domains and has

17:59.733 --> 18:01.900
capabilities in all domains what those

18:01.900 --> 18:04.011
capabilities are and how do I protect

18:04.011 --> 18:06.233
myself from them and how do I endure on

18:06.233 --> 18:08.456
the battlefield . The next bullet talks

18:08.456 --> 18:10.511
about how these apply beyond present

18:10.511 --> 18:12.622
execution , and this gets at the idea

18:12.622 --> 18:12.400
of either the joint competition

18:12.400 --> 18:15.099
continuum or in 30 the Army strategic

18:15.099 --> 18:17.839
context . So everything that we do is

18:17.839 --> 18:20.061
designed to support and set the theater

18:20.061 --> 18:22.660
for success in armed conflict , and

18:22.660 --> 18:25.520
this provides context for rotational

18:25.520 --> 18:28.069
deployments in Europe or in Korea .

18:28.449 --> 18:30.959
This sets context for joint exercises

18:30.959 --> 18:32.903
or combined exercises where we are

18:32.903 --> 18:34.959
developing interoperability with our

18:34.959 --> 18:37.015
fellow services and we're developing

18:37.015 --> 18:39.070
interoperability with our allies and

18:39.070 --> 18:41.640
partners everything there focused on

18:41.640 --> 18:43.807
setting favorable conditions should we

18:43.807 --> 18:46.349
enter into armed conflict . And then

18:46.349 --> 18:48.516
the last bullet on here really gets it

18:48.516 --> 18:50.571
defeat mechanisms which she talked a

18:50.571 --> 18:52.682
little bit about last night as well .

18:52.682 --> 18:54.738
These have been spread out before in

18:54.738 --> 18:56.905
our doctrine , and here we are calling

18:56.905 --> 18:59.071
them , calling them together based off

18:59.071 --> 19:01.127
of the the formations that the enemy

19:01.127 --> 19:03.349
presents . If we are unlikely to defeat

19:03.349 --> 19:05.460
the enemy in a single decisive blow ,

19:05.460 --> 19:07.238
we have to find a way to create

19:07.238 --> 19:09.349
bite-sized chunks of that elephant to

19:09.349 --> 19:11.589
tear down and defeat in detail . That I

19:11.589 --> 19:13.700
think that says a lot and it's pretty

19:13.700 --> 19:15.811
sobering as you look at the challenge

19:15.811 --> 19:18.033
ahead of you in terms of training ahead

19:18.033 --> 19:20.256
of us in terms of training and in terms

19:20.256 --> 19:22.200
of how we prepare our formations ,

19:22.200 --> 19:24.311
right ? Simple integration of organic

19:24.311 --> 19:26.311
capabilities is difficult combining

19:26.311 --> 19:28.367
arms is very difficult , and you can

19:28.367 --> 19:30.478
see that in current operations around

19:30.478 --> 19:32.700
the world , then expanding that idea to

19:32.700 --> 19:34.478
include capabilities from other

19:34.478 --> 19:36.533
services , it really increases in an

19:36.533 --> 19:38.645
order of magnitude of difficulty each

19:38.645 --> 19:40.756
time you add a step . And all of that

19:40.756 --> 19:42.867
has serious implications for for what

19:42.867 --> 19:44.867
you all are looking at and how do I

19:44.867 --> 19:47.089
train my formation and how do I develop

19:47.089 --> 19:49.200
my uh leadership development programs

19:49.200 --> 19:51.256
in order to to drive that thinking .

19:51.949 --> 19:55.569
Slide please . Uh , in terms of

19:55.569 --> 19:57.625
multi-domain operations , one of the

19:57.625 --> 19:59.402
things that we did in FM 30 was

19:59.402 --> 20:01.458
simplify the operational environment

20:01.458 --> 20:03.291
model . So , so many of you will

20:03.291 --> 20:05.458
probably recognize from older doctrine

20:05.458 --> 20:07.625
that this is a , a simplification or a

20:07.625 --> 20:09.791
modification of what used to look like

20:09.791 --> 20:11.847
a Jenga chart which try to take into

20:11.847 --> 20:13.736
account everything that you could

20:13.736 --> 20:15.902
possibly encounter in your OE and give

20:15.902 --> 20:18.125
it a nice place to describe in terms of

20:18.125 --> 20:19.902
how I visualize and describe my

20:19.902 --> 20:22.125
operations . Here we've reduced that to

20:22.125 --> 20:24.236
5 domains and defined them considered

20:24.236 --> 20:27.640
through 3 dimensions . Uh , physical

20:27.640 --> 20:30.209
information in human so this introduces

20:30.209 --> 20:32.609
the idea of tools for the commander to

20:32.609 --> 20:34.831
form , communicate and direct plans and

20:34.831 --> 20:37.250
operations and then gives them a basis

20:37.250 --> 20:39.810
to identify anticipate , uh , problems ,

20:39.969 --> 20:42.569
predict outcomes of operations , and

20:42.569 --> 20:44.402
really understand the results of

20:44.402 --> 20:47.079
activities they plan on taking . I

20:47.079 --> 20:49.699
think also important to note here , uh ,

20:49.709 --> 20:51.790
while we all operate in the same

20:51.790 --> 20:54.123
operational environment as the division ,

20:54.123 --> 20:56.346
for example . The division's focus when

20:56.346 --> 20:58.290
it lays out operations may be very

20:58.290 --> 21:00.290
different than for example an armor

21:00.290 --> 21:02.568
platoon . An armor platoon may be very ,

21:02.568 --> 21:04.734
very heavily focused on results in the

21:04.734 --> 21:06.957
physical dimension where the division ,

21:06.957 --> 21:09.068
the core of the land component may be

21:09.068 --> 21:11.012
more concerned with the results in

21:11.012 --> 21:12.969
other dimensions . Slide please .

21:19.709 --> 21:21.653
If I could get you to go for one .

21:25.140 --> 21:27.362
We introduced tenants of operations and

21:27.362 --> 21:29.529
these have been with us throughout the

21:29.529 --> 21:31.584
entire kind of 40 year period that I

21:31.584 --> 21:33.751
introduced uh here we're talking about

21:33.751 --> 21:35.418
operations that are desirable

21:35.418 --> 21:37.418
attributes to build into all of our

21:37.418 --> 21:39.529
planning and execution . Uh , they're

21:39.529 --> 21:41.696
really helping us think through how we

21:41.696 --> 21:43.862
employ the operational concept . Maybe

21:43.862 --> 21:45.973
if I am a commander they're giving me

21:45.973 --> 21:48.530
some COA evaluation criteria and if I'm

21:48.530 --> 21:50.363
integrating these into all of my

21:50.363 --> 21:52.252
training and operations , they're

21:52.252 --> 21:54.474
really starting to drive the culture or

21:54.474 --> 21:57.040
um . The character of the organization

21:57.040 --> 21:59.207
itself , so these become part of daily

21:59.207 --> 22:01.373
life . As you look at them , agility ,

22:01.373 --> 22:03.429
you often see described as speed and

22:03.429 --> 22:05.540
that's really the down trace platform

22:05.540 --> 22:07.873
or individual characteristic of it , uh ,

22:07.873 --> 22:10.040
kind of ignored in some interpretation

22:10.040 --> 22:12.151
if you look at the the part that says

22:12.151 --> 22:14.207
se retain and exploit the initiative

22:14.207 --> 22:16.429
thinking through all of the things that

22:16.429 --> 22:15.880
are very challenging in training ,

22:16.000 --> 22:17.944
particularly as you look at uh CTC

22:17.944 --> 22:20.930
rotation . Uh , battle period one very ,

22:21.069 --> 22:23.500
very challenging to get the engineers

22:23.500 --> 22:25.667
to the battalion conducting the breach

22:25.790 --> 22:28.430
by Ba period 3 that's part of life and

22:28.430 --> 22:30.540
we're able to conduct uh changes in

22:30.540 --> 22:33.069
task organization on the fly or very

22:33.069 --> 22:35.180
quickly and , and this really gets it

22:35.180 --> 22:37.300
how do we adapt faster than an enemy

22:37.300 --> 22:39.300
and how do we , uh , how do we take

22:39.300 --> 22:41.630
advantage advantage of those relative

22:41.630 --> 22:43.859
advantages that we create . Uh ,

22:43.869 --> 22:45.702
convergence is a new idea that's

22:45.702 --> 22:48.680
introduced in this version of uh FM 30 .

22:49.430 --> 22:51.486
Really here we are talking about the

22:51.486 --> 22:53.597
idea that the senior tactical echelon

22:53.790 --> 22:55.457
is setting conditions for its

22:55.457 --> 22:57.510
subordinate formations for their

22:57.510 --> 22:59.399
success . It's accounting for the

22:59.399 --> 23:01.621
integration of joint capabilities , and

23:01.621 --> 23:03.732
it's applying the entire depth of its

23:03.732 --> 23:05.732
formation against an enemy . And so

23:05.732 --> 23:07.732
when you think back to what problem

23:07.732 --> 23:09.954
we're trying to solve and what does the

23:09.954 --> 23:11.954
enemy present to us , he presents a

23:11.954 --> 23:13.954
complex system of systems and we're

23:13.954 --> 23:16.550
thinking about uh what that threat

23:16.550 --> 23:18.939
poses to ourselves , what our plan is ,

23:19.069 --> 23:21.291
where he can impact our plan , and then

23:21.291 --> 23:23.402
how do we take that apart by applying

23:23.430 --> 23:25.486
all the resources available to us in

23:25.486 --> 23:28.209
our entire formation . When we look at

23:28.209 --> 23:30.829
endurance , uh , not new , but we're ,

23:31.410 --> 23:33.410
we have to stay in the field and we

23:33.410 --> 23:35.521
have to maintain some level of combat

23:35.521 --> 23:37.577
power for as long as the Joint Force

23:37.577 --> 23:39.743
commander needs us . So we're thinking

23:39.743 --> 23:41.854
here , how do I survive on the modern

23:41.854 --> 23:43.743
battlefield ? How do I retain the

23:43.743 --> 23:45.854
combat power to apply to an advantage

23:45.854 --> 23:47.521
when it presents itself or an

23:47.521 --> 23:49.688
opportunity that prevents itself . And

23:49.688 --> 23:51.799
then depth is is absolutely not new .

23:51.799 --> 23:54.021
This might be the challenge of the past

23:54.021 --> 23:53.880
100 years . It's certainly been with us

23:53.880 --> 23:57.819
since 1986 , um . We have

23:57.819 --> 24:00.170
to be able to reach as far and as deep

24:00.170 --> 24:02.579
as the Joint Force commander requires .

24:02.739 --> 24:04.961
I think what's a challenge here when we

24:04.961 --> 24:07.183
look at multi-domain operations and how

24:07.183 --> 24:09.540
we expand this idea is how do I see

24:09.540 --> 24:11.707
this beyond just a linear distance and

24:11.707 --> 24:14.329
how do I think about this past the flat

24:14.819 --> 24:16.900
linear looking version of this model

24:16.900 --> 24:18.956
inside of a field manual so how do I

24:18.956 --> 24:21.122
extend the idea of depth to all of the

24:21.122 --> 24:23.729
dimensions and across domains . Uh ,

24:23.760 --> 24:26.160
how do I look at that linear graphic

24:26.160 --> 24:28.030
and apply it to time and purpose

24:28.319 --> 24:30.152
throughout the course of a joint

24:30.152 --> 24:32.369
campaign ? Slide please .

24:34.959 --> 24:36.681
And we reintroduce the idea of

24:36.681 --> 24:38.903
imperatives here and as it highlights ,

24:38.903 --> 24:41.126
these are things that you have to do in

24:41.126 --> 24:42.848
order to survive on the modern

24:42.848 --> 24:44.903
battlefield things that units at all

24:44.903 --> 24:47.126
echelons have to be able to perform . I

24:47.126 --> 24:49.070
it's either 1986 or 1993 that this

24:49.070 --> 24:51.237
comes out of our doctrine and , and we

24:51.237 --> 24:53.459
reintroduce it here and when we talk to

24:53.459 --> 24:55.403
larger audiences like this one , I

24:55.403 --> 24:57.626
think this is really where multi-domain

24:57.626 --> 24:59.848
operations hits home at the brigade and

24:59.848 --> 25:01.737
below level , so very easy to say

25:01.737 --> 25:03.681
convergence . I , I might not have

25:03.681 --> 25:05.848
anything to do with that . I might not

25:05.848 --> 25:08.070
get . Joint resources I I might just be

25:08.070 --> 25:10.292
one of the things being converged I I'm

25:10.292 --> 25:12.459
a part of , not an executor of maybe .

25:12.459 --> 25:14.681
But this is really where we hammer home

25:14.681 --> 25:16.903
things that matter across the board and

25:16.903 --> 25:18.903
there's a couple of things out here

25:18.903 --> 25:20.903
I'll introduce that are going to be

25:20.903 --> 25:23.530
seen in the 2025 change to FM 30 and

25:23.530 --> 25:25.752
I'll highlight those specifically as we

25:25.752 --> 25:27.919
go through . So the first one you have

25:27.919 --> 25:30.030
to see yourself , see the enemy , and

25:30.030 --> 25:29.949
understand the operational environment .

25:30.069 --> 25:32.125
Obviously the clear call back to the

25:32.125 --> 25:34.180
change in the OE model . You have to

25:34.180 --> 25:36.402
understand what's going on around you ,

25:36.402 --> 25:36.390
what we're trying to accomplish as a

25:36.390 --> 25:38.557
larger formation and what the enemy is

25:38.557 --> 25:40.723
capable of in order to be successful .

25:41.270 --> 25:43.270
Uh , the second one we talked about

25:43.270 --> 25:45.270
this a little bit last night at the

25:45.270 --> 25:45.150
panelists dinner as well as accounting

25:45.150 --> 25:47.372
for being under constant observation in

25:47.372 --> 25:50.010
all forms of enemy . When we discuss

25:50.010 --> 25:52.232
this , you often see it presented as or

25:52.232 --> 25:54.140
discussed as an increasingly

25:54.140 --> 25:56.219
transparent battlefield or a

25:56.219 --> 25:58.330
transparent battlefield , and you can

25:58.330 --> 26:01.099
start to build out an argument that US

26:01.099 --> 26:03.099
Army forces are in contact with the

26:03.099 --> 26:05.380
enemy at all times from the point of

26:05.380 --> 26:07.602
departing the motor pool and mobilizing

26:07.619 --> 26:09.730
all the way until we reach close arms

26:09.730 --> 26:12.063
fire or small arms fire in close combat .

26:13.099 --> 26:14.988
Uh , so we have to understand and

26:14.988 --> 26:17.043
account for what that is and what it

26:17.043 --> 26:19.043
looks like based off of our enemy's

26:19.043 --> 26:20.932
capabilities and this , uh , this

26:20.932 --> 26:23.155
really is calling forward if you have a

26:23.155 --> 26:24.988
framework for an older idea that

26:24.988 --> 26:24.640
everyone is familiar with which is

26:24.640 --> 26:26.862
basic noise and light discipline in the

26:26.862 --> 26:29.479
patrol base . Uh , the next one you see

26:29.479 --> 26:31.423
on there , this would be a new one

26:31.423 --> 26:33.880
introduced in the 2025 revision , and

26:33.880 --> 26:36.102
what this does is break out information

26:36.102 --> 26:37.991
that was previously stored in the

26:37.991 --> 26:40.047
account for constant observation and

26:40.047 --> 26:42.158
enemy contact and raises the relative

26:42.158 --> 26:43.547
importance of owning the

26:43.547 --> 26:45.324
electromagnetic spectrum . Uh ,

26:45.324 --> 26:47.491
language here deliberately selected to

26:47.491 --> 26:49.547
tie back to something that everybody

26:49.547 --> 26:51.658
recognizes in terms of on the night .

26:51.658 --> 26:53.547
And and what we're really talking

26:53.547 --> 26:55.491
through here is understanding that

26:55.491 --> 26:57.380
everything you own is is emitting

26:57.380 --> 26:59.436
something in some way and everything

26:59.436 --> 27:01.213
that the enemy owns is emitting

27:01.213 --> 27:03.380
something in some way . How do we take

27:03.380 --> 27:05.602
advantage of that and how do we control

27:05.602 --> 27:07.824
our emissions ? Uh , next one I'll talk

27:07.824 --> 27:11.119
about there is . Is uh making initial

27:11.119 --> 27:13.008
contact with sensors and unmanned

27:13.008 --> 27:14.786
systems in the smallest element

27:14.786 --> 27:16.786
possible . Uh , not a new idea here

27:16.786 --> 27:19.410
either , also ancient . Calling forward

27:19.410 --> 27:21.521
the relative importance of employment

27:21.521 --> 27:23.521
of unmanned systems and our sensors

27:23.521 --> 27:25.632
based off of lessons and observations

27:25.632 --> 27:27.880
from current operations . Uh , and I

27:27.880 --> 27:30.102
think this one plays a very interesting

27:30.229 --> 27:32.939
role when you combine it with , um ,

27:33.109 --> 27:35.276
accounting for constant observation in

27:35.276 --> 27:37.387
all forms of contact and you start to

27:37.387 --> 27:39.553
layer in new tools that are capable or

27:39.553 --> 27:41.665
available to you . So what does , for

27:41.665 --> 27:43.665
example , movement to contact for a

27:43.665 --> 27:45.776
battalion or a brigade look like when

27:45.776 --> 27:47.609
employing unmanned systems under

27:47.609 --> 27:49.776
constant observation ? What windows do

27:49.776 --> 27:51.942
I use to move in and how is the how do

27:51.942 --> 27:54.053
those change potentially based off of

27:54.053 --> 27:55.887
the enemy's capabilities and the

27:55.887 --> 27:58.479
operational environment . Um ,

28:00.199 --> 28:02.255
Consolidate gains continuously as we

28:02.255 --> 28:04.366
move down and really ties back to all

28:04.366 --> 28:07.520
of our actions are to a purpose . Uh

28:07.520 --> 28:09.631
new idea from our previous version of

28:09.631 --> 28:11.187
FM 30 , which addressed the

28:11.187 --> 28:13.298
consolidation of gains as a follow on

28:13.298 --> 28:15.353
chapter subsequent to operations and

28:15.353 --> 28:17.409
left us with this impression that we

28:17.409 --> 28:19.631
conduct operations and then on the back

28:19.631 --> 28:21.909
end we begin to consolidate gains . Uh ,

28:21.959 --> 28:23.737
here we're saying from the very

28:23.737 --> 28:25.848
beginning we have to operate with the

28:25.848 --> 28:28.070
end state in mind . And we have to make

28:28.070 --> 28:30.126
decisions about how we operate based

28:30.126 --> 28:29.900
off of where where the joint force

28:29.900 --> 28:33.380
commander wants us to end up . Slide

28:33.380 --> 28:37.270
please . And this idea

28:37.270 --> 28:39.469
of the division is the principal

28:39.469 --> 28:42.229
tactical echelon . So one of the great

28:42.229 --> 28:44.589
things about our forces is we bring

28:44.589 --> 28:47.839
depth . Uh , and we bring scale . We

28:47.839 --> 28:50.489
also bring echelons of formations that

28:50.719 --> 28:52.959
some of our allies do not bring , and

28:52.959 --> 28:55.181
they're different from what our enemies

28:55.181 --> 28:58.040
or adversaries provide . So here we're

28:58.040 --> 28:59.873
looking at , uh , how all of our

28:59.873 --> 29:03.400
echelons fight as one formation and no

29:03.400 --> 29:05.800
one fights alone overall . So there is

29:05.800 --> 29:07.750
no force providing headquarters .

29:08.099 --> 29:10.155
Everybody is part of a formation and

29:10.155 --> 29:12.488
conducting operations as a broader team .

29:13.040 --> 29:15.040
And what our structure does here is

29:15.040 --> 29:16.429
allow us to break up key

29:16.429 --> 29:18.373
responsibilities and manage scarce

29:18.373 --> 29:20.151
resources across that congested

29:20.151 --> 29:22.151
battlefield and and employ those in

29:22.151 --> 29:24.373
complementary and reinforcing roles and

29:24.373 --> 29:26.430
it really helps us split up span of

29:26.430 --> 29:29.069
control . And provide clear focus for

29:29.069 --> 29:31.180
each echelon so that we can parse out

29:31.180 --> 29:33.402
the fight and achieve something greater

29:33.402 --> 29:36.219
than each individual formation . And

29:36.270 --> 29:38.270
where we get to this , although the

29:38.270 --> 29:40.270
language of division is a principal

29:40.270 --> 29:42.326
tactical echelon hasn't changed much

29:42.326 --> 29:44.492
over the course of the last 40 years .

29:44.492 --> 29:44.390
Uh , what we're really talking about

29:44.390 --> 29:47.290
here is unburdening headquarters and

29:47.290 --> 29:49.512
formations from roles they are not well

29:49.512 --> 29:51.510
suited to in Lisco . So here we're

29:51.510 --> 29:53.579
looking at the division as , uh ,

29:53.910 --> 29:56.132
really the lowest level echelon capable

29:56.132 --> 29:58.354
of employing capabilities from multiple

29:58.354 --> 30:00.299
domains , requesting and employing

30:00.299 --> 30:02.521
those on behalf of brigades as it seeks

30:02.521 --> 30:04.869
to set conditions for close combat . Uh ,

30:05.650 --> 30:07.761
does represent a significant change ,

30:07.761 --> 30:09.928
maybe not so much for the younger part

30:09.928 --> 30:12.039
of our crowd , but definitely for the

30:12.039 --> 30:14.261
older part of those in attendance where

30:14.261 --> 30:16.317
we have fought as a brigade centered

30:16.317 --> 30:18.539
formation where we're able to split out

30:18.539 --> 30:20.483
resources in a generally equitable

30:20.483 --> 30:20.290
fashion across the entirety of a

30:20.290 --> 30:22.609
formation as we prepare for a large

30:22.609 --> 30:24.720
scale combat operations fight , we're

30:24.720 --> 30:26.942
not able to do so . We need to allocate

30:26.942 --> 30:28.887
those resources from a centralized

30:28.887 --> 30:30.776
headquarters that is best able to

30:30.776 --> 30:32.387
contribute to the fight . Um

30:34.109 --> 30:37.540
Slide please . I have

30:38.239 --> 30:40.183
two slides I think here in kind of

30:40.183 --> 30:42.072
closing uh I'll modify this one a

30:42.072 --> 30:44.017
little bit based off what's all on

30:44.017 --> 30:46.128
there . Uh , we get back to you as we

30:46.128 --> 30:48.072
prepare for the panel this idea of

30:48.072 --> 30:49.739
unified action and where does

30:49.739 --> 30:51.683
multi-domain operations , the Army

30:51.683 --> 30:53.795
service doctrine fit into the broader

30:53.795 --> 30:55.961
context . So unified action is a joint

30:55.961 --> 30:58.329
concept and it describes how we apply

30:58.329 --> 31:00.280
unity of effort across all of the

31:00.280 --> 31:02.336
domains and all of our components or

31:02.336 --> 31:04.558
all of the services to solve a specific

31:04.558 --> 31:06.910
military problem . Sometimes you see

31:06.910 --> 31:10.359
this as uh . JATO , which is a

31:10.359 --> 31:13.229
new new appendix introduced to JP 30 ,

31:13.239 --> 31:16.319
a potential future iteration of unified

31:16.319 --> 31:18.263
action , but what joint all domain

31:18.263 --> 31:20.880
operations basically does is recognize

31:20.880 --> 31:23.102
that there are some operations in which

31:23.102 --> 31:25.324
the Joint Force commander has to take a

31:25.324 --> 31:27.269
more active role and more directly

31:27.269 --> 31:29.380
control the actions of the components

31:29.380 --> 31:31.602
instead of relying on each component to

31:31.602 --> 31:33.324
coordinate with each other and

31:33.324 --> 31:35.491
facilitate operations in all domains .

31:36.010 --> 31:38.288
Uh , in terms of joint interdependence ,

31:38.288 --> 31:40.010
and I think this is where I'll

31:40.010 --> 31:41.899
transition to doctrine instead of

31:41.899 --> 31:41.520
talking force posture , which we

31:41.520 --> 31:43.576
already touched a little bit , sir ,

31:43.576 --> 31:45.742
and then instead of rehashing fighting

31:45.742 --> 31:48.489
as an echelon formation . So we talk

31:48.489 --> 31:50.545
about joint interdependence is where

31:50.545 --> 31:52.378
you start to see uh multi-domain

31:52.378 --> 31:54.156
operations interplay with other

31:54.156 --> 31:57.489
services concepts and and here you see

31:57.489 --> 31:59.609
all of the service concepts designed

31:59.609 --> 32:01.831
acknowledging joint interdependence and

32:01.831 --> 32:04.319
unified action all designed to work as

32:04.319 --> 32:06.969
a specific component centrally in a

32:06.969 --> 32:09.650
domain but interacting with resources

32:09.650 --> 32:11.729
in other domains overall and

32:11.729 --> 32:15.089
integrating them . And so you see each

32:15.089 --> 32:17.089
service having developed in its own

32:17.089 --> 32:19.256
kind of developmental and experimental

32:19.256 --> 32:20.922
stovepipe their approach to a

32:20.922 --> 32:23.369
multi-domain operations like fight with

32:23.369 --> 32:25.480
very similar ideas and how they apply

32:25.480 --> 32:27.609
that and how they integrate uh

32:27.609 --> 32:30.119
resources from other domains I think

32:30.119 --> 32:33.699
where we are . In terms of application

32:33.699 --> 32:36.619
of those doctrines is now preparing for

32:36.619 --> 32:38.897
what would be service to service talks .

32:38.897 --> 32:41.099
So for example , we are very good and

32:41.099 --> 32:43.266
very familiar with integrating landing

32:43.266 --> 32:45.377
ground power that has not really gone

32:45.377 --> 32:47.432
away from us . Uh , we know where to

32:47.432 --> 32:49.655
apply LNOs we know generally what those

32:49.655 --> 32:51.650
procedures and processes look like

32:52.099 --> 32:54.043
areas where we need to continue to

32:54.043 --> 32:56.540
evolve based off of , uh , distributed

32:56.540 --> 32:58.429
maritime operations is the Navy's

32:58.429 --> 33:00.429
operational concept of multi-domain

33:00.429 --> 33:02.096
operations . And kind of what

33:02.096 --> 33:04.151
capabilities each of us are bringing

33:04.151 --> 33:06.207
online now is how do we interact and

33:06.207 --> 33:08.429
where do we exchange LNOs and where are

33:08.429 --> 33:10.596
the procedures and processes that that

33:10.596 --> 33:12.609
help us collectively develop things

33:12.609 --> 33:15.050
like sea control to extend naval

33:15.050 --> 33:16.994
operational reach or to extend the

33:16.994 --> 33:18.994
Joint Force commander's operational

33:18.994 --> 33:22.780
reach . And I think , sir ,

33:22.800 --> 33:25.133
pending any thoughts or questions there ,

33:25.133 --> 33:27.356
I think I'm kind of ready to to wrap up

33:27.356 --> 33:30.530
and transition to questions . And So if

33:30.530 --> 33:33.010
you go forward one more slide , I

33:33.010 --> 33:34.930
talked a whole lot about general

33:34.930 --> 33:37.770
overview of very large ideas that are

33:37.770 --> 33:39.881
detailed inside of the field manual .

33:40.410 --> 33:42.521
We do try to provide that information

33:42.521 --> 33:44.410
in a variety of ways based off of

33:44.410 --> 33:46.632
either your learning style or what time

33:46.632 --> 33:48.688
you have available . I know for me ,

33:48.688 --> 33:50.688
for example , every waking moment I

33:50.688 --> 33:52.910
have that is not spent at work is spent

33:52.910 --> 33:52.609
going to some form of extracurricular

33:52.609 --> 33:55.170
activity , uh , so audio books for

33:55.170 --> 33:57.281
example are very helpful for me to do

33:57.281 --> 33:59.281
my research and my study as I drive

33:59.281 --> 34:01.503
around . Uh , really frustrates my kids

34:01.503 --> 34:03.726
though because they would rather listen

34:03.726 --> 34:05.948
to pop and , uh , that upsets them . If

34:05.948 --> 34:08.170
you would like to take a look at a more

34:08.170 --> 34:10.114
detailed version , a more in-depth

34:10.114 --> 34:12.114
version of our FM 30 implementation

34:12.114 --> 34:14.003
brief on our YouTube channel , we

34:14.003 --> 34:16.059
provide a roughly 90 minute overview

34:16.059 --> 34:18.170
which features General Beagle RCG and

34:18.170 --> 34:20.337
my director going through the original

34:20.337 --> 34:22.392
implementation brief and then taking

34:22.392 --> 34:24.392
about 30 minutes on the back end to

34:24.392 --> 34:26.448
answer commonly asked questions that

34:26.448 --> 34:28.399
maybe is a good backdrop for LPD

34:28.399 --> 34:30.566
program development . We've also taken

34:30.566 --> 34:32.732
that and broken that down into roughly

34:32.732 --> 34:34.843
10 minute chunks to help you focus in

34:34.843 --> 34:37.010
on a very specific topic that you want

34:37.010 --> 34:40.809
to . Um , if you are into podcasts ,

34:41.599 --> 34:43.655
uh , Breaking doctrine podcast talks

34:43.655 --> 34:45.655
about the evolution of doctrine and

34:45.655 --> 34:47.766
some core doctrinal ideas and your CD

34:47.766 --> 34:49.988
and DCSM have participated in that with

34:49.988 --> 34:52.239
us previously , and what this does is

34:52.239 --> 34:54.461
let us have a long form conversation to

34:54.461 --> 34:56.572
describe how an idea has evolved over

34:56.572 --> 34:58.683
time and then really you can also see

34:58.683 --> 35:00.850
the implementation of ideas across the

35:00.850 --> 35:03.072
entire body of doctrine from all of the

35:03.072 --> 35:05.017
COEs as it moves throughout and we

35:05.017 --> 35:07.072
update the library . Uh , if you are

35:07.072 --> 35:09.128
looking for something to do in short

35:09.128 --> 35:11.350
periods of time , we also maintain this

35:11.350 --> 35:13.406
idea of Doctrine Digest , uh , which

35:13.406 --> 35:15.183
reduces key ideas like how do I

35:15.183 --> 35:17.406
implement a battle rhythm down to about

35:17.406 --> 35:19.628
a 2 minute video to help you get a jump

35:19.628 --> 35:21.406
start on a discussion with your

35:21.406 --> 35:23.517
subordinate leaders . And then if you

35:23.517 --> 35:25.739
are really into FM 30 and you'd like to

35:25.739 --> 35:27.961
set up some time with my writing team .

35:28.550 --> 35:30.606
We will absolutely if you contact us

35:30.606 --> 35:32.717
through that that email address there

35:32.717 --> 35:34.939
we will absolutely make the time to sit

35:34.939 --> 35:36.939
down with you in your formation and

35:36.939 --> 35:38.939
talk about it tailored to what your

35:38.939 --> 35:40.994
specific resources are and what your

35:40.994 --> 35:43.161
formation is and how you contribute to

35:43.161 --> 35:45.217
your larger fight . And then also as

35:45.217 --> 35:45.159
you go through either things like

35:45.159 --> 35:47.326
today's event or through your training

35:47.326 --> 35:49.548
regimens and you identify gaps there or

35:49.548 --> 35:51.603
in your classrooms that you think we

35:51.603 --> 35:53.270
need to come back and address

35:53.270 --> 35:55.270
absolutely send it to us we love to

35:55.270 --> 35:57.381
take feedback we love to make sure as

35:57.381 --> 35:59.603
your CG said earlier this is absolutely

35:59.603 --> 36:01.770
not the end of doctrine , but we would

36:01.770 --> 36:03.715
love to integrate that into future

36:03.715 --> 36:05.437
things and then so pending any

36:05.437 --> 36:05.320
questions or thoughts you have open it

36:05.320 --> 36:08.310
up for the group . Yeah , so at this

36:08.310 --> 36:10.477
time I've got about 3 or 4 questions ,

36:10.477 --> 36:12.588
uh , but I wanna start with people in

36:12.588 --> 36:14.754
the audience . So we've got some folks

36:14.754 --> 36:16.754
who have microphones that will come

36:16.754 --> 36:18.866
down . You need to use the microphone

36:18.866 --> 36:18.290
because I wanna have the audience

36:18.290 --> 36:21.169
that's out there in dispersed MS Teams

36:21.169 --> 36:23.225
lane hear your question , and we got

36:23.225 --> 36:25.447
about 15 minutes , so we should be able

36:25.447 --> 36:27.169
to get a couple of really good

36:27.169 --> 36:29.391
questions , uh , or , you know , some a

36:29.391 --> 36:31.280
and mediocre ones . No , I'm sure

36:31.280 --> 36:33.225
they'll be awesome questions . All

36:33.225 --> 36:35.391
right . So who wants to crack the seal

36:35.391 --> 36:38.229
here and open it up ? All right ,

36:38.360 --> 36:39.471
microphone moving .

36:42.689 --> 36:45.669
Sometimes it pays to be first . Uh ,

36:45.860 --> 36:47.971
one , thanks for the presentation . 2

36:47.971 --> 36:49.860
for the group , uh , Eric Schokla

36:49.860 --> 36:51.971
commander for the 4th Brigade Support

36:51.971 --> 36:54.138
Battalion here at Fort Carson , just a

36:54.138 --> 36:56.193
question to leader attributes , uh ,

36:56.193 --> 36:56.169
just if there were some that you think

36:56.520 --> 36:58.742
things that , you know , as we're going

36:58.742 --> 37:00.964
through our development program that we

37:00.964 --> 37:00.159
should focus on for our junior leaders

37:00.159 --> 37:02.326
and ourselves , it can be very easy to

37:02.326 --> 37:04.326
go , Hey , I'm a platoon leader , a

37:04.326 --> 37:06.326
company commander . I do what my CG

37:06.326 --> 37:06.239
says . I stay alive and I'm ready to

37:06.239 --> 37:08.517
move , uh , but that person's gonna be .

37:08.517 --> 37:10.850
A battalion commander brigade commander ,

37:10.850 --> 37:12.961
etc . 1020 years from now , are there

37:12.961 --> 37:12.925
key attributes that we should be

37:12.925 --> 37:15.036
focusing on for leader development to

37:15.036 --> 37:17.258
make sure we're developing leaders that

37:17.258 --> 37:19.425
can do these things ? Oh , thank you .

37:19.425 --> 37:22.155
um , so first I would not presuppose to

37:22.165 --> 37:23.943
to tell you how to develop your

37:23.943 --> 37:26.264
leadership program at all . I would say

37:26.264 --> 37:28.264
looking and and using my example in

37:28.264 --> 37:30.486
command , I would look back and I would

37:30.486 --> 37:32.708
say things that really challenged us in

37:32.708 --> 37:34.875
terms of developing a a future company

37:34.875 --> 37:36.931
commander or feel great or battalion

37:36.931 --> 37:39.370
commander . Uh , we pay very strong lip

37:39.370 --> 37:41.850
service to this idea of understanding

37:41.850 --> 37:43.683
the fight to levels up and those

37:43.683 --> 37:46.010
resources and attributes to drive from

37:46.010 --> 37:48.050
that in terms of flexibility and

37:48.050 --> 37:51.189
communication . So what I found and

37:51.189 --> 37:53.245
looking at the body of work , what I

37:53.245 --> 37:55.510
find is The more you are training

37:55.510 --> 37:57.621
somebody to be able to understand and

37:57.621 --> 37:59.820
integrate those things and adjust to

38:00.469 --> 38:02.691
changing situations , the better you're

38:02.691 --> 38:04.913
gonna end up in the future and then the

38:04.913 --> 38:07.080
second half of that is , uh , when you

38:07.080 --> 38:09.191
look at what your command and control

38:09.191 --> 38:11.247
system is for your formation and how

38:11.247 --> 38:13.247
you tailor that . Uh , none of this

38:13.247 --> 38:15.413
really matters if we can't communicate

38:15.413 --> 38:17.358
the same site picture in short and

38:17.358 --> 38:19.525
clear bursts . Does that make sense or

38:19.525 --> 38:21.858
did I sidestep the question ? Excellent .

38:21.858 --> 38:23.802
Thank you , sir . OK , over here ,

38:23.802 --> 38:23.770
please .

38:29.939 --> 38:32.050
Hey , sir , uh , Captain Carmenante ,

38:32.050 --> 38:35.389
HAC 4 BSB commander , excuse me . As we ,

38:35.429 --> 38:37.750
uh , continue to move from GY into MDO

38:37.750 --> 38:39.750
and large scale combat operations ,

38:39.750 --> 38:42.028
right , and we look at enemy targeting ,

38:42.028 --> 38:44.250
creating those multiple dilemmas in the

38:44.250 --> 38:46.417
battlefield , uh , and logistics being

38:46.417 --> 38:46.179
the driving force , uh , for the , uh ,

38:46.350 --> 38:48.899
for our fighters , um . Looking at the

38:48.899 --> 38:50.843
challenges and technology that the

38:50.843 --> 38:53.340
modern uh warfare brings into the

38:53.340 --> 38:55.610
battlefield now how are we looking at

38:55.610 --> 38:58.820
the future of logistics from moving

38:58.820 --> 39:00.739
from the unconventional logistics

39:00.739 --> 39:03.179
movement uh of equipment forward into

39:03.179 --> 39:06.379
the line to back to conventional uh

39:06.379 --> 39:08.212
with all the technology is being

39:08.212 --> 39:10.101
integrated into the battlefield .

39:13.850 --> 39:17.540
to 40 I , yeah , I , I would be wholly

39:17.540 --> 39:20.580
unprepared and inaccurate if I dig this

39:20.580 --> 39:23.260
is a wonderful question , and the

39:23.260 --> 39:25.860
spirals that come out of FM 30

39:25.860 --> 39:27.860
influence every single war fighting

39:27.860 --> 39:30.082
function . And so when you look at what

39:30.082 --> 39:32.193
our doctrine writers are doing as the

39:32.193 --> 39:34.527
principal kind of base document with 30 .

39:34.709 --> 39:37.899
It has inspired all the other war

39:37.899 --> 39:40.010
fighting functions to write their own

39:40.010 --> 39:41.788
doctrine and so our sustainment

39:41.788 --> 39:44.010
logistics community is recognizing that

39:44.010 --> 39:45.780
constant ubiquitous contact is

39:45.780 --> 39:48.649
increasing the risk of being able to

39:48.649 --> 39:51.820
supply material to units that need it

39:51.820 --> 39:54.042
over greater distances because you have

39:54.042 --> 39:56.153
to have the standoff to survive . And

39:56.153 --> 39:58.153
then also , we can't have the giant

39:58.153 --> 40:00.699
massive division support areas or core

40:00.699 --> 40:02.810
support areas . So we're getting back

40:02.810 --> 40:04.866
into what we used to use , which was

40:04.866 --> 40:08.169
clusters and functional uh nodes to be

40:08.169 --> 40:09.836
able to provide logistics and

40:09.836 --> 40:11.780
sustainment . The next level up is

40:11.780 --> 40:13.836
really where the challenge is on the

40:13.836 --> 40:16.002
joint force with contested logistics ,

40:16.002 --> 40:18.189
and that's where the army as a service

40:18.189 --> 40:20.750
owns responsibility to provide for all

40:20.750 --> 40:22.917
the other services . The United States

40:22.917 --> 40:25.139
Air Force loves bombs . We love bombs .

40:25.139 --> 40:27.306
We have to provide bombs to the United

40:27.306 --> 40:29.306
States Air Force because sadly they

40:29.306 --> 40:31.583
can't do it themselves . Love you guys ,

40:31.583 --> 40:33.750
but you don't have as many ships as we

40:33.750 --> 40:33.110
do . In fact , the Navy doesn't have as

40:33.110 --> 40:35.590
many ships as we do . Brian Bennett may

40:35.590 --> 40:38.189
contest that , but . That that's really ,

40:38.350 --> 40:40.461
you know , out of this , uh , how are

40:40.461 --> 40:42.572
we gonna fight then we have to figure

40:42.572 --> 40:42.510
out how we're gonna sustain , how are

40:42.510 --> 40:44.566
we gonna do intelligence , how is it

40:44.566 --> 40:46.510
that we're gonna do fires . So the

40:46.510 --> 40:48.989
principal document is 30 , which

40:48.989 --> 40:50.989
describes the operating environment

40:50.989 --> 40:53.211
that we want to win and then everything

40:53.211 --> 40:55.322
else is coming from that . But you're

40:55.322 --> 40:57.489
right , and , and I'll talk about this

40:57.489 --> 40:59.489
during my discussion . Multi-domain

40:59.489 --> 41:01.656
operations is a wonderful concept that

41:01.656 --> 41:03.267
won't work if you don't have

41:03.267 --> 41:05.378
sustainment . Right , we got one here

41:05.378 --> 41:07.433
and then one here , right up front .

41:11.590 --> 41:13.646
Sir , uh , thank you for the brief .

41:13.646 --> 41:15.479
Major Tom Bain from 10th Group .

41:16.239 --> 41:19.629
Reading FM 3.0 and is in agreement with

41:19.629 --> 41:21.800
the Arsoff handbook which isn't quite

41:21.800 --> 41:23.911
doctrine yet from what I understand ,

41:23.911 --> 41:26.078
but they both talk about soft being in

41:26.078 --> 41:27.911
the deep supporting conventional

41:27.911 --> 41:29.967
maneuver in the close . Where do you

41:29.967 --> 41:32.439
see in terms of echelon alignment uh of

41:32.439 --> 41:34.606
headquarters in Comroll , where do you

41:34.606 --> 41:36.828
see the appropriate pairing NTC we have

41:36.828 --> 41:38.550
an SF company with a brigade ,

41:38.550 --> 41:40.550
sometimes a soda for the division .

41:40.550 --> 41:42.772
We've had a lot of white board sessions

41:42.772 --> 41:44.717
and deep dives on this of where we

41:44.717 --> 41:46.883
think that partnership should be , but

41:46.883 --> 41:46.350
from a doctrinal perspective , where do

41:46.350 --> 41:48.590
you see it as the appropriate echelon

41:48.590 --> 41:51.639
impairment ? I , so that's an excellent

41:51.639 --> 41:53.195
question , and I think um .

41:55.909 --> 41:59.600
So Advertise a little bit for the 2025

41:59.600 --> 42:01.711
update here as I go through this . So

42:01.711 --> 42:03.544
this is a gap , right , as we're

42:03.544 --> 42:05.600
talking about large scale operations

42:05.600 --> 42:08.939
fight really focusing heavily on the

42:08.939 --> 42:10.717
first go around in multi-domain

42:10.717 --> 42:12.939
operations on conventional forces , but

42:12.939 --> 42:14.995
an idea applicable across across the

42:14.995 --> 42:16.995
board . One of the things we did do

42:16.995 --> 42:18.828
with Swx is spend about 6 months

42:18.828 --> 42:20.772
sitting down and going through and

42:20.772 --> 42:22.995
trying to figure this problem set out .

42:22.995 --> 42:22.969
I don't know that we have necessarily a

42:22.969 --> 42:24.858
very clean answer . I think we're

42:24.858 --> 42:26.691
probably about right in what you

42:26.691 --> 42:30.479
described um . But

42:30.479 --> 42:32.590
I think critical to understanding all

42:32.590 --> 42:34.830
of that in terms of advertisement and

42:35.239 --> 42:37.406
communicating that to the conventional

42:37.406 --> 42:39.929
force is what is for example a sojeev

42:39.929 --> 42:42.879
versus a just so and how do those

42:42.879 --> 42:45.046
things operate and where and how can I

42:45.046 --> 42:46.712
marry with them . I think the

42:46.712 --> 42:48.601
discussion of where and how do we

42:48.601 --> 42:50.546
exchange LNOs plays a role in that

42:50.546 --> 42:52.657
overall and what I think you start to

42:52.657 --> 42:54.600
see is that the special operation

42:54.600 --> 42:57.290
forces are operating . Uh , in terms of

42:57.290 --> 42:59.290
the objectives they're being tasked

42:59.290 --> 43:01.290
with and the problems they're being

43:01.290 --> 43:03.123
asked to solve , I think it's my

43:03.123 --> 43:05.290
opinion , not the doctrinal answer . I

43:05.290 --> 43:07.401
think you're seeing us asking them to

43:07.401 --> 43:09.457
operate at maybe one in coordination

43:09.457 --> 43:12.090
with 12 , or very seldom 3 levels up

43:12.090 --> 43:14.034
from where we ask the conventional

43:14.034 --> 43:16.368
force to operate based off of the scope .

43:16.368 --> 43:18.479
I think the other challenge with that

43:18.479 --> 43:20.646
is then how do you take I talked about

43:20.646 --> 43:22.812
linear models because you have to have

43:22.812 --> 43:24.923
a way to draw it on the screen itself

43:24.923 --> 43:26.979
or on the the page . How do you take

43:26.979 --> 43:29.340
for example the operational framework

43:29.629 --> 43:31.851
and how do you apply that in such a way

43:31.851 --> 43:34.073
that you can articulate what operations

43:34.073 --> 43:36.129
in the or what deep operations might

43:36.129 --> 43:38.240
look like and how you're applying NSF

43:38.240 --> 43:40.351
team to that . I don't think that's a

43:40.351 --> 43:42.573
perfectly clear answer , but I think it

43:42.573 --> 43:44.573
commiserates and gets down the same

43:44.573 --> 43:44.310
road you're talking about . Did I

43:44.310 --> 43:46.477
sidestep or did I answer ? And and you

43:46.477 --> 43:48.588
guys are gonna vote on that . Right ?

43:48.699 --> 43:50.820
Without a doubt , you're gonna say ,

43:50.899 --> 43:52.955
here's the operating environment . I

43:52.955 --> 43:55.121
think I need to be at this level to be

43:55.121 --> 43:57.419
able to introduce the tools that we can

43:57.419 --> 43:59.620
fight with or you know what , in this

43:59.620 --> 44:01.564
case I really need to go to a much

44:01.564 --> 44:03.787
lower echelon . So I think you're gonna

44:03.787 --> 44:06.050
get a very , very strong vote in that

44:06.340 --> 44:08.139
set of processes as we do task

44:08.139 --> 44:10.250
organization command relations and as

44:10.250 --> 44:12.472
we work with uh joint partners who also

44:12.472 --> 44:14.409
have or allies who have special

44:14.409 --> 44:16.631
operations capabilities . I , I'm . I'm

44:16.631 --> 44:18.780
fascinated by that idea , having seen

44:18.780 --> 44:20.739
what soft can do . Uh , so I think

44:20.739 --> 44:22.795
that's one of the things that you're

44:22.795 --> 44:24.739
gonna be asked . Hey , what do you

44:24.739 --> 44:26.961
think ? So , answer your own question .

44:28.010 --> 44:30.177
Right , no , that's just fine . We got

44:30.177 --> 44:32.399
one more , and I think , uh , we'll see

44:32.399 --> 44:34.510
how long this one goes . We might get

44:34.510 --> 44:36.677
one more after that . A , hold on . We

44:36.677 --> 44:38.899
got some warrant officers in the room .

44:38.899 --> 44:40.899
All right , next question is coming

44:40.899 --> 44:42.954
from a warrant officer . All right ,

44:42.954 --> 44:45.066
Aerosol , uh , good morning . My name

44:45.066 --> 44:44.989
is Major Steve Swinsky . I'm the S2

44:44.989 --> 44:47.156
from Deardi 101 . Sir , first of all ,

44:47.199 --> 44:49.255
thank you for the great presentation

44:49.255 --> 44:52.899
this morning . As the MDTFs become more

44:52.899 --> 44:55.121
manned and equipped , how much reliance

44:55.121 --> 44:57.177
are we going to have on them to fill

44:57.177 --> 45:00.020
the gaps of the MDEO fight and how much

45:00.020 --> 45:01.964
are we going to at the brigade and

45:01.964 --> 45:04.300
division level going to be expected to

45:04.540 --> 45:06.596
insert ourselves into those seas and

45:06.596 --> 45:08.929
gaps to fill whatever requirements .

45:11.949 --> 45:15.379
So Thank you , I think I'm gonna

45:15.379 --> 45:17.601
sidestep ever so slightly on this one .

45:17.601 --> 45:19.768
So I think the challenge when you look

45:19.768 --> 45:22.260
at the MDTF is that we are writing the

45:22.260 --> 45:25.300
doctrine right now in flight . And so

45:26.250 --> 45:28.959
I think trying to put together just

45:28.959 --> 45:30.681
understanding of what the task

45:30.681 --> 45:32.515
organization and the authorities

45:32.515 --> 45:34.626
associated with that are right now is

45:34.626 --> 45:36.737
is very challenging . So I don't know

45:36.737 --> 45:38.737
that doctrinally we can answer that

45:38.737 --> 45:40.959
question . I , I think when you look at

45:40.959 --> 45:42.792
the , the idea of a fight across

45:42.792 --> 45:45.459
multiple domains , I don't think I

45:45.459 --> 45:47.959
would rely just on one formation to to

45:47.959 --> 45:50.070
play a lead in that overall . I would

45:50.070 --> 45:52.070
say that everybody is gonna play an

45:52.070 --> 45:54.439
equal role it's gonna depend on on what

45:54.439 --> 45:56.495
you are reaching out and touching or

45:56.495 --> 45:58.661
how you are participating in the joint

45:58.661 --> 46:02.260
force fight . So IBCT is every bit as

46:02.260 --> 46:04.899
important as an MBTF . The MDTF is

46:04.899 --> 46:07.290
bringing capabilities that probably

46:07.290 --> 46:09.739
reside at the theater army or higher

46:09.739 --> 46:12.439
level . And it is going to play a huge

46:12.439 --> 46:15.729
impact on the joint fight itself . How

46:15.729 --> 46:18.570
an IBCT or an ABCT plays a role in

46:18.570 --> 46:21.449
there may vary , but I think a way to

46:21.449 --> 46:24.129
look at it maybe would be if we use ,

46:24.209 --> 46:27.489
for example , naval operations . MBTF

46:27.489 --> 46:30.090
has the ability to participate in the

46:30.090 --> 46:32.257
idea of controlling territorial waters

46:32.257 --> 46:36.000
or sea and expanding naval

46:36.000 --> 46:39.040
operational naval operational reach

46:39.040 --> 46:41.889
afloat . And passage between parts of

46:41.889 --> 46:43.889
an island chain , for example , the

46:43.889 --> 46:46.370
army has the ability to seize land on

46:46.370 --> 46:48.537
that island chain in order to create a

46:48.537 --> 46:51.010
resupply depot for the navy and support

46:51.010 --> 46:53.121
their operations that way or position

46:53.121 --> 46:55.580
the MDTF . So it talks about how those

46:55.580 --> 46:57.802
go together , sir , and then after your

46:57.802 --> 47:00.024
response if I come back to the SF one .

47:00.024 --> 47:01.913
It was a great , that was a great

47:01.913 --> 47:01.300
response . There's an arm wrestling

47:01.300 --> 47:04.310
contest for MDTFs at the theater level .

47:04.419 --> 47:06.659
I mean , the Army senior component

47:06.659 --> 47:08.715
commands think that that there's the

47:08.715 --> 47:10.659
combatant commands think that that

47:10.659 --> 47:12.548
there's , you know , Secretary of

47:12.548 --> 47:14.437
Defense thinks rightfully so that

47:14.437 --> 47:16.381
they're theirs . OK , uh , warrant

47:16.381 --> 47:18.548
officer maybe who can fly a helicopter

47:18.548 --> 47:22.350
named Kearns . All the

47:22.350 --> 47:24.461
microphone moves if I could come back

47:24.461 --> 47:26.517
to your question , where I will look

47:26.517 --> 47:28.739
for the answer and where that starts to

47:28.739 --> 47:30.794
codify and you see that right now if

47:30.794 --> 47:30.280
you have the opportunity to find the

47:30.280 --> 47:33.459
draft FM 305 , that'll be where I start

47:33.459 --> 47:35.570
to to look for that answer if I'm I'm

47:35.570 --> 47:37.848
you , and then we'll adjust from there .

47:37.848 --> 47:39.848
And then the second part of that is

47:39.848 --> 47:42.015
we're working through what will become

47:42.015 --> 47:44.126
FM 303 focused on irregular warfare .

47:44.126 --> 47:46.292
Which also contain part of that answer

47:46.292 --> 47:48.126
as we go forward . So discussion

47:48.126 --> 47:50.348
ongoing . What we have done is our best

47:50.348 --> 47:52.403
with Sw to actually sit down and lay

47:52.403 --> 47:54.459
out what all of the headquarters and

47:54.459 --> 47:56.403
functions are from really the soda

47:56.403 --> 47:58.639
through the TSOC and draw a parallel as

47:58.639 --> 48:01.159
best we can across the conventional

48:01.159 --> 48:04.590
formations . Chief , Morning , sir . CW

48:04.590 --> 48:06.870
5 Kearns from the uh aviation brigade .

48:07.120 --> 48:09.719
A quick question regarding MDO tenants

48:09.719 --> 48:12.330
uh specific to convergence . Uh , when

48:12.330 --> 48:14.550
it comes to shaping or modeling

48:14.550 --> 48:16.606
convergence at the brigade and below

48:16.606 --> 48:18.820
level , uh , what methods do you see ,

48:19.090 --> 48:21.350
uh , possible for , say , battalion

48:21.350 --> 48:23.350
when we look at our own agility and

48:23.350 --> 48:25.461
survivability and endurance , uh , in

48:25.461 --> 48:27.683
order to shape those the convergence or

48:27.683 --> 48:29.683
convergence enablers , uh , through

48:29.683 --> 48:31.850
core or even the joint force , uh , to

48:31.850 --> 48:33.961
protect ourselves as we say are doing

48:33.961 --> 48:35.310
deep aviation attacks .

48:37.879 --> 48:40.101
Just to recap , make sure I'm answering

48:40.101 --> 48:42.268
the right question , Chief , um , what

48:42.268 --> 48:43.935
role does the brigade play in

48:43.935 --> 48:45.879
convergence in shaping convergence

48:45.879 --> 48:47.435
enablers , uh , for our own

48:47.435 --> 48:50.939
survivability ? Um , so ,

48:51.260 --> 48:52.927
so I say with two things with

48:52.927 --> 48:54.050
convergence , one ,

48:57.820 --> 48:59.750
Applies to everyone . Everyone is

48:59.750 --> 49:02.979
either directing the application of the

49:02.979 --> 49:05.090
entire formation or everybody is part

49:05.090 --> 49:07.146
of what is being directed to achieve

49:07.146 --> 49:10.040
convergence overall . I would say my

49:10.040 --> 49:12.151
role as I look at it or a role as you

49:12.151 --> 49:14.151
look at it from a brigade and below

49:14.151 --> 49:16.151
perspective , not only just staying

49:16.151 --> 49:18.207
alive , critical to the outcome that

49:18.207 --> 49:21.870
we're trying to achieve is uh a

49:21.870 --> 49:24.092
understanding what outcome we're trying

49:24.092 --> 49:27.219
to achieve and then . Making uh .

49:28.229 --> 49:30.396
Taking actions based off opportunities

49:30.396 --> 49:32.562
that they create themselves throughout

49:32.562 --> 49:34.396
that process overall so not only

49:34.396 --> 49:36.909
achieving my directed task if I am a

49:36.909 --> 49:38.830
brigade as part of the overall

49:38.830 --> 49:41.030
convergence effort , but then also

49:41.030 --> 49:43.030
exploiting opportunities to help my

49:43.030 --> 49:45.030
division or corps commander further

49:45.030 --> 49:47.308
that task and create new opportunities .

49:47.308 --> 49:50.689
I , I think a danger . And the

49:50.689 --> 49:53.979
idea is . Yes , you're required to stay

49:53.979 --> 49:56.090
alive as part of that , but depending

49:56.090 --> 49:58.423
on how you describe it , it creates the ,

49:58.423 --> 50:00.590
the idea that everybody below the core

50:00.590 --> 50:02.479
level potentially is just sitting

50:02.479 --> 50:04.479
around and waiting for something to

50:04.479 --> 50:06.701
happen . And the reality is that we are

50:06.701 --> 50:08.812
all actively part of that process and

50:08.812 --> 50:11.035
seeking to further our gains as much as

50:11.035 --> 50:13.201
possible within windows of opportunity

50:13.201 --> 50:15.260
to present themselves . Did I

50:15.260 --> 50:17.371
completely sidestep that one or did I

50:17.371 --> 50:19.520
answer what you were asking ? Did did

50:19.520 --> 50:22.060
it fit ? Yeah , I , I think it's very

50:22.060 --> 50:24.116
hard , and you can , you go a couple

50:24.116 --> 50:26.393
directions with that . Yeah , that was ,

50:26.393 --> 50:28.616
that was fantastic . So , uh , Shamik's

50:28.616 --> 50:30.838
gonna come up and get us set up for the

50:30.838 --> 50:33.004
next stage , and , uh , Colonel Cook's

50:33.004 --> 50:32.399
may be available in the breakout

50:32.399 --> 50:34.399
sessions . So if you have questions

50:34.399 --> 50:36.399
that you didn't get answered or you

50:36.399 --> 50:38.510
wanna explore some other ideas , I'll

50:38.510 --> 50:40.621
just tell you what my three questions

50:40.621 --> 50:39.719
were , which , you know , we're not

50:39.719 --> 50:41.719
gonna answer right now , but . Uh ,

50:41.719 --> 50:43.886
what's this idea of the human domain ?

50:43.886 --> 50:45.663
How is it being introduced into

50:45.663 --> 50:47.719
doctrine ? There was a move afoot to

50:47.719 --> 50:49.830
have the human domain codified . Uh ,

50:49.830 --> 50:51.941
General Rainey was adamant about it ,

50:51.941 --> 50:54.163
but it , it never materialized . Second

50:54.163 --> 50:53.469
question , what in the world's

50:53.469 --> 50:55.691
preclusion ? Uh , I think that would be

50:55.691 --> 50:57.858
an interesting discussion because that

50:57.858 --> 51:00.379
talks about the , um , area denial

51:00.379 --> 51:02.268
opportunities that the enemies or

51:02.268 --> 51:04.379
adversaries are gonna pose . Uh , and

51:04.379 --> 51:06.490
then my third question , if I have it

51:06.490 --> 51:08.546
correctly , was very similar to what

51:08.546 --> 51:10.323
Chiefs did . The idea of pulsed

51:10.323 --> 51:12.379
operations versus convergence pulsed

51:12.379 --> 51:14.490
operations kind of fits mostly in the

51:14.490 --> 51:16.823
joint domain but still interesting , uh ,

51:16.823 --> 51:18.935
and then the idea of convergence . So

51:18.935 --> 51:20.823
those are my three questions just

51:20.823 --> 51:22.990
inspired by this , uh , uh , 30 minute

51:22.990 --> 51:24.935
pitch . And so if you have equally

51:24.935 --> 51:26.879
interesting questions or even more

51:26.879 --> 51:28.935
interesting questions , Colonel Cook

51:28.935 --> 51:31.046
will avail himself to you , uh , this

51:31.046 --> 51:32.879
afternoon . All right , Shamik .

51:41.429 --> 51:43.151
Sir , sir , thank you for that

51:43.151 --> 51:45.429
enlightening presentation on Army MDO

51:45.429 --> 51:47.540
doctrine . The second part of today's

51:47.540 --> 51:50.340
symposium is the panel discussion . The

51:50.340 --> 51:52.340
panel today includes our commanding

51:52.340 --> 51:54.007
general Major General Doyle ,

51:54.007 --> 51:55.729
representing the land domain .

52:01.189 --> 52:03.245
Also representing the land domain is

52:03.245 --> 52:05.245
our division command sergeant Major

52:05.245 --> 52:07.022
Command Sergeant Major Carati .

52:10.510 --> 52:12.566
Representing the maritime domain and

52:12.566 --> 52:14.788
participating virtually is Rear Admiral

52:14.788 --> 52:16.954
Bennett currently serving on the joint

52:16.954 --> 52:19.629
staff as the deputy director of Special

52:19.629 --> 52:21.740
operations . Thank you for joining us

52:21.740 --> 52:22.740
today , sir .

52:26.929 --> 52:29.090
Representing the air domain is Chief

52:29.090 --> 52:30.923
Master Sergeant Staggs currently

52:30.923 --> 52:33.489
serving as the 13th Airport operations

52:33.489 --> 52:34.822
Chief Master Sergeant .

52:39.399 --> 52:41.232
Representing the space domain is

52:41.232 --> 52:43.343
Colonel Hauser , currently serving as

52:43.343 --> 52:46.600
the commander of Space Delta 7 . Thank

52:46.600 --> 52:48.100
you for joining us today .

52:51.570 --> 52:53.681
Also representing the space domain we

52:53.681 --> 52:55.903
have Colonel Cobos currently serving as

52:55.903 --> 52:57.903
the commander of First Base Brigade

52:57.903 --> 53:01.290
located here on Fort Carson . Holy

53:01.290 --> 53:05.250
brigade representing the cyberspace

53:05.250 --> 53:07.361
domain and participating virtually is

53:07.361 --> 53:09.361
Brigadier General Miles . Brigadier

53:09.361 --> 53:11.472
General Miles is currently serving as

53:11.472 --> 53:13.889
the US Army Cyber Center of Excellence

53:13.889 --> 53:15.445
Deputy commanding general .

53:20.520 --> 53:23.669
Yeah Rounding out our panel today is

53:23.669 --> 53:25.613
commander of the 10 Special Forces

53:25.613 --> 53:27.447
Group , Colonel Huffnagel , also

53:27.447 --> 53:28.836
located on Fort Carson .

53:34.959 --> 53:36.681
Each panel member will briefly

53:36.681 --> 53:38.848
introduce themselves and give a 1 to 2

53:38.848 --> 53:41.070
minutes of opening remarks on how their

53:41.070 --> 53:42.848
domain or service contribute to

53:42.848 --> 53:45.070
multi-domain operations . We will begin

53:45.070 --> 53:47.237
the opening remarks with Major General

53:47.237 --> 53:49.348
Doyle and move down the line . Well ,

53:49.348 --> 53:51.515
you heard an awful lot about where the

53:51.515 --> 53:53.681
land domain is based on our doctrine ,

53:53.681 --> 53:55.792
so I'm not gonna belabor any of those

53:55.792 --> 53:55.739
points . I am gonna talk a little bit

53:55.739 --> 53:57.517
about the practitioner level of

53:57.517 --> 53:59.683
training that's necessary , and that's

53:59.683 --> 54:01.906
really what we're doing on a day to day

54:01.906 --> 54:04.128
basis . And if you , uh , know a little

54:04.128 --> 54:03.860
bit about where we've been in our

54:03.860 --> 54:06.260
unit's history , uh , General Hodney

54:06.260 --> 54:08.316
had the visualization of what it was

54:08.316 --> 54:10.371
gonna take to be able to not just do

54:10.371 --> 54:12.371
fire support coordination exercises

54:12.371 --> 54:14.482
that used organic tools . But what it

54:14.482 --> 54:16.482
was gonna be like to do things that

54:16.482 --> 54:18.371
included some of the capabilities

54:18.371 --> 54:20.538
represented here on the panel . And so

54:20.538 --> 54:22.830
that started in 2022 . Uh , we did our

54:22.830 --> 54:24.941
first IV mask iteration , uh , thanks

54:24.941 --> 54:27.409
to some spectacular work by our

54:27.409 --> 54:29.500
division artillery team . We , we

54:29.500 --> 54:32.000
adapted that grew it our G3 and our G5

54:32.000 --> 54:34.929
section kind of built the idea that if

54:34.929 --> 54:37.540
you build it they will come and opened

54:37.540 --> 54:39.762
up a wide aperture and invited a ton of

54:39.762 --> 54:42.179
folks to play here at Fort Carson . Uh ,

54:42.250 --> 54:44.306
and we were able to do our second IV

54:44.306 --> 54:47.419
mask , uh , that was in 2024 . Then we

54:47.419 --> 54:49.729
did our Lethal Ivy , which was , uh ,

54:50.379 --> 54:52.870
latent plagiarization of Lethal Eagle

54:52.870 --> 54:54.659
from the 101st , uh , where the

54:54.659 --> 54:56.889
division went to the field and we did

54:56.889 --> 54:59.000
some multi-domain operations based on

54:59.000 --> 55:01.167
participation from others both in live

55:01.167 --> 55:03.222
virtual and constructive . And we're

55:03.222 --> 55:05.333
building towards some operations here

55:05.333 --> 55:07.333
in the future where the land domain

55:07.333 --> 55:09.500
will be the centerpiece but will be in

55:09.500 --> 55:12.239
some cases supporting uh different uh

55:12.239 --> 55:14.461
elements of our multi-domain operations

55:14.850 --> 55:16.961
uh formations . So that's coming to a

55:16.961 --> 55:19.879
theater near you in 2026 and we're

55:19.879 --> 55:21.935
calling that the Southwest maneuvers

55:21.935 --> 55:24.101
because it will not take place here in

55:24.101 --> 55:26.101
Colorado , it's gonna take place in

55:26.101 --> 55:28.268
California . We didn't want to call it

55:28.268 --> 55:30.435
the California maneuvers because , you

55:30.435 --> 55:32.657
know , the wild wildfires and all kinds

55:32.657 --> 55:34.823
of crazy stuff , but it's that's where

55:34.823 --> 55:36.990
it's taking place and for those of you

55:36.990 --> 55:38.990
who are on the team , you'll get to

55:38.990 --> 55:38.419
participate in that and see

55:38.419 --> 55:41.260
multi-domain operations over a wide

55:41.260 --> 55:43.427
distance and I'll talk some of that in

55:43.427 --> 55:45.482
my closing remarks , but great to be

55:45.482 --> 55:47.538
here , uh , great to be part of this

55:47.538 --> 55:49.538
team , and we are practitioners and

55:49.538 --> 55:51.704
really appreciate the support from the

55:51.704 --> 55:53.704
rest of the . The panel members who

55:53.704 --> 55:55.649
live here and those of you who are

55:55.649 --> 55:57.427
supporting us , uh , at distant

55:57.427 --> 55:59.649
outstations . Mayor , thank you , sir .

55:59.649 --> 56:01.704
Uh , so over the past year I had the

56:01.704 --> 56:03.816
unique opportunity to actually travel

56:03.816 --> 56:05.871
around the country and , and visit a

56:05.871 --> 56:08.038
lot of COEs , uh , talk to a lot of uh

56:08.038 --> 56:10.204
abo abolic , and , uh , NCOs , running

56:10.204 --> 56:12.316
a lot of the professional development

56:12.316 --> 56:14.371
courses we have , and , uh , when we

56:14.371 --> 56:14.350
talk NDO , the question that always

56:14.350 --> 56:17.145
comes up is . Why , why do I care ? Why

56:17.145 --> 56:19.312
does this matter to me ? Uh , over the

56:19.312 --> 56:21.367
past hour you just pitched about how

56:21.367 --> 56:23.534
all these assets are at the core level

56:23.534 --> 56:25.985
and higher . So why as a platoon leader ,

56:26.034 --> 56:28.256
as a platoon sergeant company commander

56:28.256 --> 56:30.478
do I really care ? So that is , that is

56:30.478 --> 56:30.185
the question we continually struggle to

56:30.185 --> 56:32.639
work so . You , you sat and heard what

56:32.639 --> 56:34.489
MDO is , uh , is the operational

56:34.489 --> 56:36.600
concept of the army , but in , in the

56:36.600 --> 56:38.656
grand scale to kind of minimize what

56:38.656 --> 56:40.767
that looks like for us is great power

56:40.767 --> 56:42.878
competition , near peer threats war ,

56:42.878 --> 56:44.989
right ? And that's , and that's how I

56:44.989 --> 56:47.100
kinda trans , uh , put it , put it to

56:47.100 --> 56:49.322
them , um , we had a great conversation

56:49.322 --> 56:49.159
last night , uh , as to some of the

56:49.159 --> 56:51.239
challenges that we see in everyday

56:51.239 --> 56:53.295
training , and that's to the company

56:53.295 --> 56:55.406
battery troop all the way down to the

56:55.406 --> 56:57.517
brigade level and , uh , coming off a

56:57.517 --> 56:59.739
fresh CTC a few months ago . You know ,

56:59.739 --> 56:58.939
if you're a company commander ,

56:58.969 --> 57:01.191
battalion , or brigade , you understand

57:01.191 --> 57:03.025
the challenges that exist in the

57:03.025 --> 57:04.969
synchronization and integration of

57:04.969 --> 57:07.136
every , every weapon system or systems

57:07.136 --> 57:09.302
organic to your organization . Now you

57:09.302 --> 57:11.413
start layering some of the challenges

57:11.413 --> 57:13.636
of multi-domain operations , you know ,

57:13.636 --> 57:15.858
you have your peer competitors that are

57:15.858 --> 57:18.080
modernizing at the speed of relevancy ,

57:18.080 --> 57:20.025
uh , you're looking at a potential

57:20.025 --> 57:22.247
fight in an immature , uh , environment

57:22.247 --> 57:24.302
that you're just not used to . Those

57:24.302 --> 57:26.358
are all enough reasons to understand

57:26.358 --> 57:28.302
the importance of when the tool is

57:28.302 --> 57:30.469
available to you , how to harness it ,

57:30.469 --> 57:32.691
and how to layer the domains at echelon

57:32.691 --> 57:34.913
to actually make you more lethal on the

57:34.913 --> 57:34.790
battlefield . So hopefully over the

57:34.790 --> 57:37.010
next hour I'm able to kind of bring up

57:37.010 --> 57:39.121
how your training management and your

57:39.121 --> 57:41.870
leader development is greatly tied into

57:41.870 --> 57:44.037
using multi-domain operations into the

57:44.037 --> 57:46.203
future . Thank you , sir . All right ,

57:46.203 --> 57:49.070
nasty . So Chief Master Serge Stags ,

57:49.169 --> 57:52.439
uh , go by Nasty , uh , that is . For

57:52.439 --> 57:54.606
the Air Force , uh , one of the things

57:54.606 --> 57:56.772
that , uh , we look at is how , how do

57:56.772 --> 57:59.879
we , how do we one synchronize into the

57:59.879 --> 58:02.479
whole multi-domain operations , but one

58:02.479 --> 58:04.701
of the things we're heavily invested in

58:04.701 --> 58:06.969
6Gen and GAD . Uh , a lot of those

58:06.969 --> 58:09.080
systems out there that are gonna help

58:09.080 --> 58:11.250
us be resilient and survivable in the

58:11.250 --> 58:14.570
A2AD environment , uh , and then inform

58:14.570 --> 58:17.919
the MDO process in order to now

58:18.209 --> 58:20.689
provide those lethal or non-lethal

58:20.689 --> 58:23.330
effects whether it's from space or

58:23.330 --> 58:26.320
cyber or from the , the ground force

58:26.320 --> 58:30.129
through the FDC um and . And it also is

58:30.129 --> 58:32.169
to not only help facilitate the

58:32.169 --> 58:34.889
maneuvers and the maneuverability of

58:34.889 --> 58:37.439
the ground force but also to project

58:37.439 --> 58:39.770
and get that information from them to

58:39.770 --> 58:42.103
better inform what their next action is .

58:42.409 --> 58:44.631
The other thing you'll see with the Air

58:44.631 --> 58:46.853
Force and some of the things that we're

58:46.853 --> 58:48.853
doing is we're reorganizing , we're

58:48.853 --> 58:50.965
redeveloping the way we do business .

58:50.965 --> 58:53.076
Um , one of the things we went . From

58:53.076 --> 58:55.298
an AEF cycle to an A4 gen we're getting

58:55.298 --> 58:57.409
into a bucket of , you know , we , we

58:57.409 --> 58:59.576
gotta get ready as a total force , not

58:59.576 --> 59:01.687
as just an airman who is a tech pe or

59:01.687 --> 59:04.169
an airman who is a maintainer but as a

59:04.169 --> 59:06.489
group to get ready in this lead wing

59:06.489 --> 59:08.919
concept as we get ready , we're moving

59:08.919 --> 59:11.030
through the echelon so we can be then

59:11.030 --> 59:13.239
certified and tasked as a group to go

59:13.239 --> 59:15.770
out and to execute . Uh , that , that

59:15.770 --> 59:17.770
the last 20 years hasn't happened .

59:17.840 --> 59:19.840
We've been piecemealed , we've been

59:19.840 --> 59:21.673
cherry picked . I've worked with

59:21.673 --> 59:23.340
several people from different

59:23.340 --> 59:25.340
organizations and I was out of Fort

59:25.340 --> 59:27.451
Knox . It's like , I , I've never met

59:27.451 --> 59:29.451
these individuals till I got on the

59:29.451 --> 59:31.784
ground , you know , so . Um , but we're ,

59:31.784 --> 59:33.951
we're changing that kind of atmosphere

59:33.951 --> 59:36.479
in order to be more gelled and

59:36.479 --> 59:39.030
synchronized as , as a group , but also

59:39.030 --> 59:41.389
to be able to synchronize within the

59:41.389 --> 59:43.500
elements that we're either supporting

59:43.500 --> 59:45.778
or the elements that are supporting us ,

59:45.778 --> 59:47.833
uh , because like we heard in the in

59:47.833 --> 59:49.833
the doctrine , uh , presentation we

59:49.833 --> 59:51.919
just had like that . Supporting role

59:51.919 --> 59:54.729
for land and air and sea is going to be

59:54.729 --> 59:56.919
fluid . One day it may be land that is

59:56.919 --> 59:59.141
the supported asset and next day it may

59:59.141 --> 01:00:01.252
be the air that's a supported asset .

01:00:01.252 --> 01:00:03.141
So we have to be able to be fluid

01:00:03.141 --> 01:00:05.308
enough to transition between the two ,

01:00:05.308 --> 01:00:08.409
but also understand that being in a

01:00:08.409 --> 01:00:11.169
supporting role is informing and

01:00:11.169 --> 01:00:13.669
delivering so that . That wall can be

01:00:13.669 --> 01:00:15.820
broken down so now we can transition

01:00:15.820 --> 01:00:17.876
back into the land being a supported

01:00:17.876 --> 01:00:20.909
asset to be able to produce and to um

01:00:20.909 --> 01:00:23.020
increase maneuvers on the battlefield

01:00:23.020 --> 01:00:25.076
because gaining land and maintaining

01:00:25.076 --> 01:00:26.687
land is just as important in

01:00:26.687 --> 01:00:28.853
multi-domain operations as it has ever

01:00:28.853 --> 01:00:30.949
been , um , because if we can take

01:00:30.949 --> 01:00:34.629
something away or we can spike uh a

01:00:34.629 --> 01:00:38.159
threat . Uh , to be able to find out

01:00:38.159 --> 01:00:40.370
where it is , it may take that ground

01:00:40.370 --> 01:00:42.481
maneuver to spike that threat and get

01:00:42.481 --> 01:00:45.290
that up . Uh , so from the air side

01:00:45.290 --> 01:00:48.090
we're changing just as well as well as

01:00:48.090 --> 01:00:50.360
everybody else , and I think it's a

01:00:50.629 --> 01:00:53.479
joint effort through a synchronization

01:00:53.479 --> 01:00:55.449
of everything and collaboration of

01:00:55.449 --> 01:00:57.505
everything that we do . Thanks . All

01:00:57.505 --> 01:00:59.616
right , and it's Phoenix , and that's

01:00:59.616 --> 01:01:01.949
not a call sign . That's the first name ,

01:01:01.949 --> 01:01:04.116
probably the baddest first name in the

01:01:04.116 --> 01:01:03.790
history of mankind . There is . You

01:01:03.790 --> 01:01:05.901
don't get a call sign when you have a

01:01:05.901 --> 01:01:07.957
first name , Phoenix . So , uh , I'm

01:01:07.957 --> 01:01:10.459
Phoenix Hauser . I am the commander of

01:01:10.459 --> 01:01:12.800
Space Delta 7 . We conduct intelligence

01:01:12.800 --> 01:01:14.800
surveillance , reconnaissance , and

01:01:14.800 --> 01:01:17.060
targeting operations in support of the

01:01:17.060 --> 01:01:18.899
joint force and our intelligence

01:01:18.899 --> 01:01:21.139
community partners . Uh , the majority

01:01:21.139 --> 01:01:23.083
of the formation produces finished

01:01:23.083 --> 01:01:25.139
intelligence and then publishes it ,

01:01:25.139 --> 01:01:27.361
make it makes it discoverable so we can

01:01:27.361 --> 01:01:29.695
fuel that decision advantage cycle . Uh ,

01:01:29.695 --> 01:01:31.917
we also have folks that work around the

01:01:31.917 --> 01:01:34.083
world with first base brigade in order

01:01:34.083 --> 01:01:35.861
to do electronic surveillance ,

01:01:35.861 --> 01:01:37.917
electronic preparation of the battle

01:01:37.917 --> 01:01:41.000
space , tactical , uh , EW targeting ,

01:01:41.260 --> 01:01:44.310
uh , in order to bring forth EW fires .

01:01:44.689 --> 01:01:47.689
Um , 11 aspect when I think about

01:01:47.689 --> 01:01:49.800
multi-domain , uh , operations that's

01:01:49.800 --> 01:01:51.800
personally important to me is , you

01:01:51.800 --> 01:01:53.800
know , I've been stationed in China

01:01:53.800 --> 01:01:56.022
twice , uh , in my active duty career .

01:01:56.022 --> 01:01:58.022
And I can tell you that , uh , that

01:01:58.022 --> 01:02:00.133
will be , uh , a heinous fight should

01:02:00.133 --> 01:02:02.300
it come to that . And so I think a lot

01:02:02.300 --> 01:02:04.467
about deterrence . And I think about ,

01:02:04.467 --> 01:02:06.467
you know , those areas where we are

01:02:06.467 --> 01:02:08.467
already sparring with the adversary

01:02:08.467 --> 01:02:10.689
space is one of them cyber is another ,

01:02:10.689 --> 01:02:12.745
but the things that we're doing here

01:02:12.745 --> 01:02:12.550
today in order to get after how do we

01:02:12.550 --> 01:02:14.550
more effectively wield multi-domain

01:02:14.550 --> 01:02:16.909
operations for effects that is

01:02:16.909 --> 01:02:19.340
something that tells the adversary that

01:02:19.340 --> 01:02:22.590
we are getting ready to fight , that it

01:02:22.590 --> 01:02:24.757
gives them pause maybe today isn't the

01:02:24.757 --> 01:02:28.389
day that we go and if we do that in uh

01:02:28.389 --> 01:02:30.611
one day and then the next day and we do

01:02:30.611 --> 01:02:32.722
it in a bunch of days in a row . Uh ,

01:02:32.722 --> 01:02:34.889
that's called deterrence . But I think

01:02:34.889 --> 01:02:37.222
the preparation that we're making today ,

01:02:37.222 --> 01:02:39.445
the discussions that we'll have today ,

01:02:39.445 --> 01:02:41.556
will help us in if we have to fight .

01:02:41.669 --> 01:02:44.020
That we are going to take all of our

01:02:44.020 --> 01:02:46.370
capabilities , all of our ingenuity ,

01:02:46.659 --> 01:02:48.826
all of the things that we know that we

01:02:48.826 --> 01:02:51.048
have to bear , and we're gonna bring it

01:02:51.048 --> 01:02:53.215
and we're gonna bring it strong and so

01:02:53.215 --> 01:02:55.326
um really excited to be here today to

01:02:55.326 --> 01:02:57.548
learn from my fellow panelists and just

01:02:57.548 --> 01:02:57.260
thanks for having me . All right ,

01:02:57.300 --> 01:02:59.578
Phoenix , thanks . And just to clarify ,

01:02:59.699 --> 01:03:02.580
uh Mark Kobbos is the commander of

01:03:02.580 --> 01:03:05.540
America's first space . America .

01:03:06.189 --> 01:03:08.467
That's , that's absolutely right , sir .

01:03:08.467 --> 01:03:10.633
Thank you very much . uh , I'm Colonel

01:03:10.633 --> 01:03:12.745
Mark Cobos . Command Star Major Reese

01:03:12.745 --> 01:03:14.411
Tucker and I get to lead some

01:03:14.411 --> 01:03:16.300
incredible Americans here on Fort

01:03:16.300 --> 01:03:18.411
Carson , who are members of the first

01:03:18.411 --> 01:03:20.633
Space Brigade and because only the Army

01:03:20.633 --> 01:03:23.189
has brigades and we're the only space

01:03:23.189 --> 01:03:25.659
brigade in the army , people call us

01:03:25.659 --> 01:03:28.929
America's Space Brigade . Now , now ,

01:03:29.540 --> 01:03:32.620
yes , uh , you know , space brigade

01:03:32.620 --> 01:03:34.842
sounds really neat , but really what we

01:03:34.842 --> 01:03:38.379
are is a disintegration brigade . We

01:03:38.379 --> 01:03:42.179
isolate people and organizations on the

01:03:42.179 --> 01:03:46.050
battlefield . We partake

01:03:46.050 --> 01:03:48.969
in combined arms operations and prevent

01:03:48.969 --> 01:03:51.540
the adversary from their own combined

01:03:51.540 --> 01:03:53.762
arms operations . And just real quick ,

01:03:53.762 --> 01:03:55.929
I'd like everybody to picture in their

01:03:55.929 --> 01:03:59.699
minds , uh , February 2022 in a

01:03:59.699 --> 01:04:03.379
40 mile long traffic jam going from

01:04:03.379 --> 01:04:07.010
Belarus down to Kiev , where Russian

01:04:07.010 --> 01:04:09.959
combined arms armies . Who were

01:04:09.959 --> 01:04:11.848
supposed to conduct combined arms

01:04:11.848 --> 01:04:14.080
operations were isolated on the

01:04:14.080 --> 01:04:15.969
battlefield , isolated from their

01:04:15.969 --> 01:04:19.550
command and control headquarters . An

01:04:19.550 --> 01:04:21.439
organization that was supposed to

01:04:21.439 --> 01:04:23.750
operate in an integrated fashion was

01:04:24.120 --> 01:04:28.080
disintegrated , resulting in

01:04:28.080 --> 01:04:30.770
what A-10 pilots are probably still

01:04:30.770 --> 01:04:32.826
waking up in the middle of the night

01:04:32.826 --> 01:04:35.048
dreaming about that long , long traffic

01:04:35.048 --> 01:04:37.709
jam . Uh , going down to Kiev , and

01:04:37.709 --> 01:04:39.820
that's what the first base brigade is

01:04:39.820 --> 01:04:43.030
really all about . Uh , we do planning ,

01:04:43.070 --> 01:04:44.737
we do target development , we

01:04:44.737 --> 01:04:48.350
contribute to all of the actions that

01:04:48.350 --> 01:04:51.510
we need to to to provide as part of our

01:04:51.510 --> 01:04:54.469
contributions for lethal fires .

01:04:55.540 --> 01:04:58.189
and to be able to use space

01:04:58.189 --> 01:05:01.949
capabilities to find key leaders on the

01:05:01.949 --> 01:05:04.171
battlefield and target them with lethal

01:05:04.171 --> 01:05:07.010
fires and then also to bring to bear

01:05:07.010 --> 01:05:10.379
army and joint force nonlethal

01:05:10.379 --> 01:05:12.729
capabilities . That is satellite

01:05:12.729 --> 01:05:16.239
jamming or or other capabilities that

01:05:16.239 --> 01:05:19.610
we can bring to bear to isolate and

01:05:19.610 --> 01:05:22.409
disintegrate an adversary and we do

01:05:22.409 --> 01:05:25.050
that uh we call upon a lot of those

01:05:25.050 --> 01:05:26.994
capabilities that are in the joint

01:05:26.994 --> 01:05:30.310
strategic area . We fight those fights

01:05:30.310 --> 01:05:33.429
in the core close area and we also

01:05:33.429 --> 01:05:36.310
partner with our soft counterparts to

01:05:36.310 --> 01:05:38.510
project some of our combat power into

01:05:38.510 --> 01:05:40.732
the deep and the extended deep parts of

01:05:40.732 --> 01:05:42.232
the battlefield to conduct

01:05:42.232 --> 01:05:44.389
reconnaissance , feed a lot of that

01:05:44.389 --> 01:05:46.667
information back into targeting cycles ,

01:05:47.030 --> 01:05:51.030
and allow our soft counterparts and our

01:05:51.030 --> 01:05:53.389
corps and divisions to close with and

01:05:53.389 --> 01:05:55.500
destroy the enemy in close fighting .

01:05:55.850 --> 01:05:57.961
I'm really looking forward to talking

01:05:57.961 --> 01:05:59.906
about that and , and doing so in a

01:05:59.906 --> 01:06:01.794
little bit more detail during our

01:06:01.794 --> 01:06:04.017
classified breakout session uh later on

01:06:04.017 --> 01:06:06.370
today and uh and some of the questions

01:06:06.370 --> 01:06:08.314
that have already been asked about

01:06:08.314 --> 01:06:10.203
multi task forces and battlefield

01:06:10.203 --> 01:06:12.092
geometry really have me going and

01:06:12.092 --> 01:06:14.037
excited to to to dive a little bit

01:06:14.037 --> 01:06:16.370
deeper into some of these conversations .

01:06:16.370 --> 01:06:20.040
Thanks sir . The only Huff . Justin ,

01:06:20.120 --> 01:06:22.689
go ahead , sir . Thanks , thanks to you ,

01:06:22.699 --> 01:06:24.921
CSM . Thanks for allowing us to be part

01:06:24.921 --> 01:06:26.810
of this conversation . Um , we're

01:06:26.810 --> 01:06:29.239
excited to do this . So when we think

01:06:29.239 --> 01:06:31.461
about soft in multi-domain operations ,

01:06:31.461 --> 01:06:33.517
I , I'll give you two words that are

01:06:33.517 --> 01:06:35.572
that are important to us . The first

01:06:35.572 --> 01:06:37.683
one is access , and the second one is

01:06:37.683 --> 01:06:39.906
integrators . And , and so when we talk

01:06:39.906 --> 01:06:42.017
about access , we talk about enabling

01:06:42.017 --> 01:06:44.183
the next fight . uh , what you need to

01:06:44.183 --> 01:06:46.017
know is that we are persistently

01:06:46.017 --> 01:06:48.072
deployed forward in the places we're

01:06:48.072 --> 01:06:50.239
gonna have the next fight . 365 days a

01:06:50.239 --> 01:06:52.560
year . We are training alongside our

01:06:52.560 --> 01:06:54.616
partners and our allies every day of

01:06:54.616 --> 01:06:57.250
the year . In preparation for what we

01:06:57.250 --> 01:06:59.361
think the next fight is going to be ,

01:06:59.361 --> 01:07:01.489
and that gives us an opportunity to

01:07:01.489 --> 01:07:03.711
develop an understanding of the space ,

01:07:03.711 --> 01:07:05.822
uh , certainly build interoperability

01:07:05.822 --> 01:07:07.933
and integration with our partners and

01:07:07.933 --> 01:07:10.156
develop the mechanisms that are gonna ,

01:07:10.156 --> 01:07:12.267
you know , help us get to win and set

01:07:12.267 --> 01:07:14.489
the conditions for the next fight , and

01:07:14.489 --> 01:07:16.656
we think that's a huge part of what it

01:07:16.656 --> 01:07:18.711
is we contribute to the next fight .

01:07:18.711 --> 01:07:20.933
I'll talk about that here in a second .

01:07:20.933 --> 01:07:22.822
The second part is integrators by

01:07:22.822 --> 01:07:25.045
definition , how we're task organized ,

01:07:25.045 --> 01:07:27.267
we're multi-disciplined teams and so as

01:07:27.267 --> 01:07:29.489
we think about how we contribute to the

01:07:29.489 --> 01:07:31.656
army and or the joint force that comes

01:07:31.656 --> 01:07:34.110
into the large scale combat , uh , that

01:07:34.110 --> 01:07:36.739
we envision . Or the multi-domain fight

01:07:37.070 --> 01:07:39.659
we are naturally task organized to be

01:07:39.659 --> 01:07:41.669
an integrator of capability whether

01:07:41.669 --> 01:07:43.459
it's you know our our domain

01:07:43.459 --> 01:07:45.626
professionals that are sitting next to

01:07:45.626 --> 01:07:47.792
me or any other capability and so that

01:07:47.792 --> 01:07:49.626
is a thought that we take pretty

01:07:49.626 --> 01:07:51.792
seriously how do we integrate in a new

01:07:51.792 --> 01:07:53.570
capability to bring it into the

01:07:53.570 --> 01:07:56.469
physical dimension , um , so , so those

01:07:56.469 --> 01:07:58.413
are two things that we think a lot

01:07:58.413 --> 01:08:01.310
about . If we get it right , as a , as

01:08:01.310 --> 01:08:03.088
a soft professional , as a soft

01:08:03.088 --> 01:08:05.310
organization , what we're doing for the

01:08:05.310 --> 01:08:07.254
division commander , for the corps

01:08:07.254 --> 01:08:09.254
commander , for the , for the joint

01:08:09.254 --> 01:08:11.360
force commander . Is providing an

01:08:11.360 --> 01:08:13.360
understanding of the space when the

01:08:13.360 --> 01:08:15.360
fight breaks out because we've been

01:08:15.360 --> 01:08:17.471
there and we've watched the evolution

01:08:17.471 --> 01:08:19.582
of the space from competition through

01:08:19.582 --> 01:08:21.416
crisis and the conflict and that

01:08:21.416 --> 01:08:23.527
becomes really important at the speed

01:08:23.527 --> 01:08:22.850
that we think conflict is going to

01:08:22.850 --> 01:08:25.549
unfold . We're in positions of relative

01:08:25.549 --> 01:08:28.149
advantage , physically speaking and

01:08:28.149 --> 01:08:30.509
informationally to help them make

01:08:30.509 --> 01:08:32.565
decisions , to see the space and see

01:08:32.565 --> 01:08:35.109
opportunities as fast as we think they

01:08:35.109 --> 01:08:37.331
need to be made such that the commander

01:08:37.331 --> 01:08:39.387
can make decisions about where fires

01:08:39.387 --> 01:08:41.379
need to go . Something we haven't

01:08:41.379 --> 01:08:43.379
really talked a lot about , but you

01:08:43.379 --> 01:08:45.379
know , kind of cueing off a comment

01:08:45.379 --> 01:08:47.601
made here earlier , really important to

01:08:47.601 --> 01:08:49.823
us because we're always in the space is

01:08:49.823 --> 01:08:52.140
phasing and timing because we are

01:08:52.140 --> 01:08:54.251
always there . We are going to live ,

01:08:54.259 --> 01:08:56.426
we as a soft organization are going to

01:08:56.426 --> 01:08:58.148
live through the transition of

01:08:58.148 --> 01:09:00.259
competition into conflict . And so we

01:09:00.259 --> 01:09:02.649
think a lot about how do we bring in

01:09:03.220 --> 01:09:05.442
the army , how do we bring in the joint

01:09:05.442 --> 01:09:07.553
force and hand over our understanding

01:09:07.553 --> 01:09:09.664
of the space and our understanding of

01:09:09.664 --> 01:09:11.664
the environment to the commander so

01:09:11.664 --> 01:09:13.887
that he can make decisions . So we were

01:09:13.887 --> 01:09:13.620
talking a little earlier about what is

01:09:13.620 --> 01:09:15.700
the right comra . I think there's

01:09:15.700 --> 01:09:17.756
potentially some questions that come

01:09:17.756 --> 01:09:19.589
with that and and we've got some

01:09:19.589 --> 01:09:21.644
thoughts , um , but really this idea

01:09:21.644 --> 01:09:23.756
about phasing and timing and what our

01:09:23.756 --> 01:09:25.644
role is as we move through phases

01:09:25.644 --> 01:09:27.589
becomes really important to us . I

01:09:27.589 --> 01:09:29.589
think we've got an outsized role in

01:09:29.589 --> 01:09:31.756
setting the conditions in phase zero ,

01:09:31.756 --> 01:09:33.922
and as we lapse into the more decisive

01:09:33.922 --> 01:09:36.144
phase where the conversations about MDO

01:09:36.144 --> 01:09:38.311
tend to kind of focus , we step into a

01:09:38.311 --> 01:09:40.367
really heavy shaping role so that we

01:09:40.367 --> 01:09:42.533
can in transition hand that fight over

01:09:42.533 --> 01:09:44.811
to the commander and and he takes that .

01:09:45.149 --> 01:09:47.371
So thanks Justin and a great transition

01:09:47.371 --> 01:09:49.371
from the soft . Uh , representative

01:09:49.371 --> 01:09:51.260
here to , uh , Rear Admiral Brian

01:09:51.260 --> 01:09:53.316
Bennett , who is the deputy director

01:09:53.316 --> 01:09:55.260
for special special activities and

01:09:55.260 --> 01:09:57.260
operations on the joint staff , and

01:09:57.260 --> 01:09:59.316
just to make sure you understand how

01:09:59.316 --> 01:10:01.371
significant it is that we're able to

01:10:01.371 --> 01:10:03.316
get him today , have you ever seen

01:10:03.316 --> 01:10:05.538
pictures in the Situation Room with the

01:10:05.538 --> 01:10:04.750
president who's about to make a

01:10:04.750 --> 01:10:06.528
decision that's really , really

01:10:06.528 --> 01:10:08.750
difficult and challenging . 9 times out

01:10:08.750 --> 01:10:10.917
of 10 , the person sitting next to him

01:10:10.917 --> 01:10:13.139
is not the chairman of the Joint Chiefs

01:10:13.139 --> 01:10:12.859
of Staff , not the secretary of defense ,

01:10:13.270 --> 01:10:16.629
it's the DDSO and so this is the role

01:10:16.629 --> 01:10:18.851
that Brian fills . He's also gonna talk

01:10:18.851 --> 01:10:20.740
to us a little bit about maritime

01:10:20.740 --> 01:10:22.907
domain , and he is an accomplished and

01:10:22.907 --> 01:10:25.490
experienced special operations warrior ,

01:10:25.799 --> 01:10:28.060
uh , with extensive deployment , uh ,

01:10:28.149 --> 01:10:30.260
background . So Brian , over to you ,

01:10:30.260 --> 01:10:34.209
my man . Hey , sorry , I really

01:10:34.209 --> 01:10:38.020
appreciate that info . Um , hey , let

01:10:38.020 --> 01:10:40.076
me start I'm just here with , uh , I

01:10:44.669 --> 01:10:48.640
I I just opening comments and because

01:10:48.640 --> 01:10:49.640
you have better

01:10:54.700 --> 01:10:56.756
handle well 6 man you wanna go on to

01:10:56.756 --> 01:10:58.867
the rest of day . What is the group's

01:10:58.867 --> 01:10:58.799
still going to see if you can see if

01:10:58.799 --> 01:11:00.743
your adversary is too also . So we

01:11:00.743 --> 01:10:58.959
produce some of this

01:11:08.419 --> 01:11:11.830
um what I think I'll the conversation

01:11:11.830 --> 01:11:13.386
today is uh . how can you .

01:11:30.589 --> 01:11:32.569
I see and uh also highlighted .

01:11:34.770 --> 01:11:36.159
That I uh . I exercise .

01:11:49.609 --> 01:11:50.609
And .

01:11:59.120 --> 01:12:01.759
OK . Look forward to this discussion ,

01:12:01.930 --> 01:12:04.041
look forward to your questions and um

01:12:05.120 --> 01:12:07.120
again uh . Yeah , Brian , thank you

01:12:07.120 --> 01:12:09.176
very much appreciate you taking time

01:12:09.176 --> 01:12:11.287
out of everything that you have going

01:12:11.287 --> 01:12:11.040
on there in Washington DC right now ,

01:12:11.149 --> 01:12:13.205
uh , and being with us . And then uh

01:12:13.205 --> 01:12:15.490
we'll wrap up our introductions uh with

01:12:15.490 --> 01:12:18.330
an individual who is a expert in

01:12:18.330 --> 01:12:21.629
coordination . Of cyber effects and

01:12:21.629 --> 01:12:24.919
network control , Joe Miles . He was

01:12:24.919 --> 01:12:26.975
gonna be here sitting on the panel ,

01:12:26.975 --> 01:12:28.975
but , uh , Fort Eisenhower ended up

01:12:28.975 --> 01:12:30.975
with like 2 millimeters of snow and

01:12:30.975 --> 01:12:33.141
everything shut down . So , go ahead ,

01:12:33.141 --> 01:12:35.252
my man . Hey , uh , so thank you uh I

01:12:35.252 --> 01:12:34.899
appreciate that they see and really not

01:12:34.899 --> 01:12:37.060
part of the , uh , you're right in

01:12:37.060 --> 01:12:38.060
Paris .

01:12:48.689 --> 01:12:49.339
Right

01:12:57.799 --> 01:12:58.770
Yeah .

01:13:04.970 --> 01:13:08.470
A signal officer . To ,

01:13:08.529 --> 01:13:10.569
um , uh , to my career , especially

01:13:10.569 --> 01:13:12.680
over the last decade , is , is

01:13:12.680 --> 01:13:14.847
experience in the Pacific in the cyber

01:13:14.847 --> 01:13:17.879
domain . So I did all my , my battalion ,

01:13:17.930 --> 01:13:18.930
my brigade .

01:13:41.000 --> 01:13:42.000
Mhm .

01:13:45.109 --> 01:13:46.109
Yeah

01:13:56.740 --> 01:14:00.689
Yeah . Uh , so

01:14:00.689 --> 01:14:03.390
first , you know what , what makes up

01:14:03.390 --> 01:14:05.334
the y is your traditional licenses

01:14:05.334 --> 01:14:05.290
digital .

01:14:18.580 --> 01:14:22.180
Uh Yeah .

01:14:25.390 --> 01:14:26.390
Yeah .

01:14:37.209 --> 01:14:38.209
Yeah .

01:14:48.500 --> 01:14:49.500
We .

01:14:56.890 --> 01:14:58.334
In the state of the art .

01:15:03.520 --> 01:15:07.490
The . Yeah .

01:15:09.770 --> 01:15:13.569
You . We pull lessons to learn and

01:15:13.569 --> 01:15:16.529
pivot our doctrine or teaching , um .

01:15:21.359 --> 01:15:24.490
Yeah . To .

01:15:31.279 --> 01:15:32.279
Yeah .

01:15:35.750 --> 01:15:39.270
As a seminar and he made the , the

01:15:39.270 --> 01:15:42.270
uh comment that that the cyber domain ,

01:15:42.830 --> 01:15:45.052
you know , we , we can't afford to keep

01:15:45.052 --> 01:15:47.274
it in the silo because it touches every

01:15:47.274 --> 01:15:49.330
domain . He , and he said like Intel

01:15:49.330 --> 01:15:51.441
and logistics , um , and , and that ,

01:15:51.441 --> 01:15:53.552
so that , that partnership across the

01:15:53.552 --> 01:15:55.774
army and across war fighting function .

01:15:55.774 --> 01:15:57.886
Uh , is critical , but additionally ,

01:15:57.886 --> 01:15:59.830
um , as , as noted already on this

01:15:59.830 --> 01:16:01.997
panel and in this forum , it's a joint

01:16:01.997 --> 01:16:03.886
partnership as well . It's , it's

01:16:03.886 --> 01:16:03.810
fighting as a joint force on the

01:16:03.810 --> 01:16:06.279
battlefield . Um , it's fighting as a ,

01:16:06.370 --> 01:16:09.370
a combined force . It's fighting as a ,

01:16:09.419 --> 01:16:12.209
as a , a multiple government agency

01:16:12.209 --> 01:16:14.850
force , uh , due to the ubiquity of ,

01:16:14.899 --> 01:16:17.169
of , of cyber and the reliance on the

01:16:17.169 --> 01:16:19.569
data ecosystem that , that is below it .

01:16:19.839 --> 01:16:22.359
Uh , and then it , on top of that ,

01:16:22.439 --> 01:16:24.959
it's also the reliance on commercial

01:16:24.959 --> 01:16:27.070
and the partnerships we form with the

01:16:27.070 --> 01:16:29.070
commercial enterprise . Think about

01:16:29.070 --> 01:16:30.792
your , your , uh , electricity

01:16:30.792 --> 01:16:32.792
providers , your telecommunications

01:16:32.792 --> 01:16:34.737
providers , your , you know , even

01:16:34.737 --> 01:16:36.848
water , any critical infrastructure .

01:16:36.848 --> 01:16:39.070
So there's commercial partnerships that

01:16:39.070 --> 01:16:41.015
are required to , to fight in this

01:16:41.015 --> 01:16:43.070
domain to not in all phases . So the

01:16:43.070 --> 01:16:45.237
last point I'll make um before opening

01:16:45.237 --> 01:16:47.459
up for questions and looking forward to

01:16:47.459 --> 01:16:49.681
the discussion here and in the breakout

01:16:49.681 --> 01:16:51.792
is that it is also a contested domain

01:16:51.792 --> 01:16:54.770
and in referenced earlier by um uh I ,

01:16:54.850 --> 01:16:57.072
I think uh Phoenix said it , you know ,

01:16:57.072 --> 01:16:59.239
the , the , you know , space contested

01:16:59.239 --> 01:17:01.406
domain cyber in all phases of conflict

01:17:01.406 --> 01:17:02.961
and today . So all of those

01:17:02.961 --> 01:17:05.529
partnerships . Um , today exists , so

01:17:05.930 --> 01:17:09.890
we , as we transition from the

01:17:09.890 --> 01:17:12.169
competition through crisis into , into

01:17:12.169 --> 01:17:15.089
conflict , uh , it is in every step of

01:17:15.089 --> 01:17:16.756
the way there's potential for

01:17:16.756 --> 01:17:18.922
escalation , but also at every step of

01:17:18.922 --> 01:17:21.145
the way , there exists conflict , there

01:17:21.145 --> 01:17:24.310
exists congestion and there exists TTPs

01:17:24.310 --> 01:17:27.169
to exist in maneuver inside of those uh

01:17:27.169 --> 01:17:30.169
in the space . So , Uh , lots of area ,

01:17:30.330 --> 01:17:32.497
lots more we could go into in the , in

01:17:32.497 --> 01:17:34.830
the short time here for , for her intro ,

01:17:34.830 --> 01:17:36.497
and I hope to get into in the

01:17:36.497 --> 01:17:38.552
discussions and I look forward , and

01:17:38.552 --> 01:17:40.330
then I'll end off just by again

01:17:40.330 --> 01:17:42.330
apologizing for not being there . I

01:17:42.330 --> 01:17:44.441
really was looking forward to getting

01:17:44.441 --> 01:17:44.250
out there and I hope in this , in the

01:17:44.250 --> 01:17:46.569
near future to get out there and visit

01:17:46.569 --> 01:17:48.680
with you , sir , and , and with the ,

01:17:48.680 --> 01:17:50.902
with the division that's out there . So

01:17:50.902 --> 01:17:53.013
thanks again and uh opening back over

01:17:53.013 --> 01:17:55.125
to the mind radar . Excellent . Thank

01:17:55.125 --> 01:17:57.013
you very much . OK , so you , you

01:17:57.013 --> 01:17:59.069
understand now who the panel members

01:17:59.069 --> 01:18:01.236
are and the , the purpose for the rest

01:18:01.236 --> 01:18:03.125
of the morning session here is to

01:18:03.125 --> 01:18:05.347
engage on topics of interest and . What

01:18:05.347 --> 01:18:07.609
you're going to hear in all likelihood

01:18:07.879 --> 01:18:10.046
are members of the panel talking about

01:18:10.046 --> 01:18:11.990
not just their stovepipe but where

01:18:11.990 --> 01:18:14.212
their domain intersects with others and

01:18:14.212 --> 01:18:16.157
where it complements or enables or

01:18:16.157 --> 01:18:18.160
where there's dependencies because

01:18:18.160 --> 01:18:20.271
that's really the purpose for today .

01:18:20.271 --> 01:18:22.438
If we're gonna talk about practitioner

01:18:22.438 --> 01:18:24.104
level activities , we have to

01:18:24.104 --> 01:18:25.882
understand how these things fit

01:18:25.882 --> 01:18:28.104
together . We're not trying to make you

01:18:28.104 --> 01:18:30.216
a cyber expert or a soft expert , but

01:18:30.216 --> 01:18:32.520
we want you to understand what these

01:18:32.520 --> 01:18:34.687
things do when they're put together to

01:18:34.687 --> 01:18:36.742
produce effects on the battlefield ,

01:18:36.742 --> 01:18:38.631
and I hope somebody will ask that

01:18:38.631 --> 01:18:40.909
question about relative advantage , um ,

01:18:41.520 --> 01:18:45.229
if you read one piece of literature

01:18:45.229 --> 01:18:47.569
that will help you understand . Uh ,

01:18:47.649 --> 01:18:49.538
multi-domain operations , I would

01:18:49.538 --> 01:18:51.705
commend it to you Admiral McCraven's ,

01:18:51.810 --> 01:18:53.866
uh , uh , I think it was a book . It

01:18:53.866 --> 01:18:56.009
was a thesis at the beginning , uh ,

01:18:56.089 --> 01:18:58.033
special operations , and he talked

01:18:58.033 --> 01:18:59.922
about this concept about relative

01:18:59.922 --> 01:19:01.930
advantage , and it was the idea of

01:19:01.930 --> 01:19:04.152
overmatch at a specific point in time ,

01:19:04.152 --> 01:19:06.374
convergence before convergence with the

01:19:06.374 --> 01:19:08.374
thing , post operations before post

01:19:08.374 --> 01:19:10.263
operations was the thing , but it

01:19:10.263 --> 01:19:12.374
really encapsulates many of the ideas

01:19:12.374 --> 01:19:14.486
that we're gonna discuss today . Last

01:19:14.486 --> 01:19:14.240
point and then I'm gonna hand over to

01:19:14.240 --> 01:19:17.479
our moderator . Remember we are at the

01:19:17.479 --> 01:19:19.640
unclassified level and so if you have

01:19:19.640 --> 01:19:22.080
really unique and distinct questions

01:19:22.080 --> 01:19:24.080
about specific capabilities , we're

01:19:24.080 --> 01:19:26.247
probably not gonna answer them for you

01:19:26.247 --> 01:19:28.302
today , uh , because we're not gonna

01:19:28.302 --> 01:19:27.759
get into that realm . But in the

01:19:27.759 --> 01:19:29.879
breakout sessions this afternoon , we

01:19:29.879 --> 01:19:31.990
can go , uh , all the way down to the

01:19:31.990 --> 01:19:34.212
secret level and if we , uh , go to one

01:19:34.212 --> 01:19:36.268
of those spaces in the skip a little

01:19:36.268 --> 01:19:38.640
bit further . OK , thank you , sir .

01:19:39.220 --> 01:19:41.387
We're gonna begin this symposium panel

01:19:41.387 --> 01:19:43.498
discussion today with the most common

01:19:43.498 --> 01:19:45.498
question we received in our QR code

01:19:45.498 --> 01:19:47.720
survey sent out to the force before the

01:19:47.720 --> 01:19:49.553
symposium . General Doyle , this

01:19:49.553 --> 01:19:51.850
question is uh directed to you . The

01:19:51.850 --> 01:19:55.149
question is . Sir , can you describe

01:19:55.149 --> 01:19:56.950
how you envision multi-domain

01:19:56.950 --> 01:20:00.720
operations executed at Echelon ? OK , I

01:20:00.720 --> 01:20:02.831
really appreciate that , and it , and

01:20:02.831 --> 01:20:04.998
it follows with doctrine . So it's not

01:20:04.998 --> 01:20:07.053
original thought . And also , um , I

01:20:07.053 --> 01:20:09.220
received an enormous amount of support

01:20:09.220 --> 01:20:11.387
and dialogue with our staff , with the

01:20:11.387 --> 01:20:13.609
commandar major and uh with uh a friend

01:20:13.609 --> 01:20:15.776
of mine , General Jim Eisenhower , and

01:20:15.776 --> 01:20:17.998
many of you have heard this and so what

01:20:17.998 --> 01:20:19.887
I , what I describe is . The most

01:20:19.887 --> 01:20:21.942
difficult , most dangerous , and the

01:20:21.942 --> 01:20:23.887
most challenging thing that has to

01:20:23.887 --> 01:20:25.998
happen is that the company in platoon

01:20:25.998 --> 01:20:27.942
level . You have two tasks for you

01:20:27.942 --> 01:20:30.109
company commanders and platoon leaders

01:20:30.109 --> 01:20:32.276
that are out there . Stay alive and be

01:20:32.276 --> 01:20:34.276
ready to fight . Stay alive , which

01:20:34.276 --> 01:20:36.553
means you gotta worry about dispersion ,

01:20:36.553 --> 01:20:38.664
you gotta worry about electromagnetic

01:20:38.664 --> 01:20:37.990
spectrum management . You gotta worry

01:20:37.990 --> 01:20:39.990
about ubiquitous surveillance , you

01:20:39.990 --> 01:20:42.157
gotta worry about , uh , digging , you

01:20:42.157 --> 01:20:44.323
gotta worry about camouflage . Because

01:20:44.323 --> 01:20:46.434
staying alive is not gonna be as easy

01:20:46.434 --> 01:20:48.323
as it has been on the on the coin

01:20:48.323 --> 01:20:50.546
battlefield or anything else , and then

01:20:50.546 --> 01:20:52.712
be ready to move because the distances

01:20:52.712 --> 01:20:52.379
are gonna be greater . You're not gonna

01:20:52.379 --> 01:20:55.109
be right at LD and then boom , ORP then

01:20:55.109 --> 01:20:57.870
boom target . You're gonna have to move

01:20:57.870 --> 01:20:59.926
because we're gonna protect you from

01:20:59.926 --> 01:21:02.037
what the enemy is trying to do to you

01:21:02.037 --> 01:21:04.148
by using distance as a tool . Make it

01:21:04.148 --> 01:21:05.870
more costly for them to try to

01:21:05.870 --> 01:21:07.592
influence you . So that's what

01:21:07.592 --> 01:21:09.759
companies and platoons do stay alive ,

01:21:09.759 --> 01:21:11.926
be ready to move . Battalions , your ,

01:21:11.926 --> 01:21:14.037
your fight's kind of the same as it's

01:21:14.037 --> 01:21:13.959
always been . Apportion resources down

01:21:13.959 --> 01:21:16.181
to the companies that are necessary and

01:21:16.181 --> 01:21:18.403
fight combined arms just like you heard

01:21:18.403 --> 01:21:20.626
in the doctrine discussion . Brigades ,

01:21:20.626 --> 01:21:22.681
you have larger staffs . You provide

01:21:22.681 --> 01:21:24.903
the two things I need you to do provide

01:21:24.903 --> 01:21:26.903
all forms of support , whether it's

01:21:26.903 --> 01:21:28.959
sustainment , whether it's personnel

01:21:28.959 --> 01:21:31.520
replenishment , whether it's uh support

01:21:31.520 --> 01:21:33.576
in the , in the form of intelligence

01:21:33.576 --> 01:21:35.742
war fighting function capability . You

01:21:35.742 --> 01:21:37.798
provide all forms of support to your

01:21:37.798 --> 01:21:39.964
subordinates and you manage terrain in

01:21:39.964 --> 01:21:42.131
a multi-domain operation . You have to

01:21:42.131 --> 01:21:44.353
manage terrain because there's gonna be

01:21:44.353 --> 01:21:46.687
a lot of players , a lot of action arms .

01:21:46.687 --> 01:21:46.500
The cab's gonna want a piece of ground ,

01:21:46.629 --> 01:21:48.851
the division artillery is gonna a piece

01:21:48.851 --> 01:21:50.962
of ground . The corps is gonna want a

01:21:50.962 --> 01:21:53.129
piece of ground . The train management

01:21:53.129 --> 01:21:52.629
is a full-time job and only the

01:21:52.629 --> 01:21:54.750
brigades have the staff to be able to

01:21:54.750 --> 01:21:57.109
do that . The two tasks I give to the

01:21:57.109 --> 01:21:59.660
division , we shape for the brigades ,

01:22:00.029 --> 01:22:02.390
and then we are good customers for

01:22:02.390 --> 01:22:04.557
multi-domain operations capabilities .

01:22:04.557 --> 01:22:07.830
I wanna be . The best demonstration of

01:22:07.830 --> 01:22:09.830
the corps commanders or joint force

01:22:09.830 --> 01:22:11.719
commander gives me a multi-domain

01:22:11.719 --> 01:22:13.886
operation capability , space , cyber ,

01:22:13.886 --> 01:22:15.830
Air Force . I'm gonna show him I'm

01:22:15.830 --> 01:22:17.941
gonna solve his or her problem . Give

01:22:17.941 --> 01:22:20.108
them to me , I solve your problem . So

01:22:20.108 --> 01:22:21.886
we shape for the brigades using

01:22:21.886 --> 01:22:24.052
whatever tools we get , and then we're

01:22:24.052 --> 01:22:25.830
good customers for multi-domain

01:22:25.830 --> 01:22:28.040
capability . We've got space planners

01:22:28.290 --> 01:22:30.457
on our on our team . We don't have any

01:22:30.457 --> 01:22:32.720
space capability . I've got EW planners

01:22:32.720 --> 01:22:34.553
on our staff . We don't have any

01:22:34.553 --> 01:22:36.776
resident EW capability . We're probably

01:22:36.776 --> 01:22:38.998
gonna steal some soft representatives ,

01:22:39.569 --> 01:22:42.609
um , if we can hijack you , um , but we

01:22:42.609 --> 01:22:44.720
don't have any soft capability within

01:22:44.720 --> 01:22:46.831
the division , so we're gonna be good

01:22:46.831 --> 01:22:48.942
customers by planning and integrating

01:22:48.942 --> 01:22:50.831
that and then , uh , enabling the

01:22:50.831 --> 01:22:52.831
shaping effort for the brigades and

01:22:52.831 --> 01:22:54.998
then . I don't presume to tell my core

01:22:54.998 --> 01:22:57.165
headquarters what they should do , but

01:22:57.165 --> 01:22:58.942
again , you heard the doctrinal

01:22:58.942 --> 01:23:01.109
discussion . They are the apportioners

01:23:01.109 --> 01:23:02.942
of multi-domain operations tools

01:23:02.942 --> 01:23:02.839
because they're the first element that

01:23:02.839 --> 01:23:05.479
really has them resident and then they

01:23:05.479 --> 01:23:08.069
also shape for the division so that's

01:23:08.399 --> 01:23:10.566
at Echelon how multi-domain operations

01:23:10.566 --> 01:23:12.843
happen . So if you're a platoon leader ,

01:23:12.843 --> 01:23:14.843
it sounds pretty familiar , but the

01:23:14.843 --> 01:23:17.010
environment's different , so you can't

01:23:17.010 --> 01:23:18.732
think that it's a multi-domain

01:23:18.732 --> 01:23:18.649
operation doesn't pertain to you like

01:23:18.649 --> 01:23:21.319
Sar major said you've gotta be able to

01:23:21.319 --> 01:23:23.850
perform your task but survive to be

01:23:23.850 --> 01:23:25.850
able to do so . That , that's how I

01:23:25.850 --> 01:23:28.529
described . Multi- domain operations at

01:23:28.529 --> 01:23:31.490
Echelon for all the formations um that

01:23:31.490 --> 01:23:33.600
the uh division would normally work

01:23:33.600 --> 01:23:35.378
with and I hope if we have some

01:23:35.378 --> 01:23:37.433
division commanders out there , uh ,

01:23:37.433 --> 01:23:39.890
they can post or or challenge anything

01:23:39.890 --> 01:23:42.009
that I said um or describe any

01:23:42.009 --> 01:23:44.065
variations that they're using within

01:23:44.065 --> 01:23:46.009
their formations . Thanks for that

01:23:46.009 --> 01:23:48.720
question . So our major in line with

01:23:48.720 --> 01:23:51.000
what the CG just said , how can 4th

01:23:51.000 --> 01:23:53.720
Infantry division , NCOs and units

01:23:53.720 --> 01:23:56.040
train for and prepare to execute large

01:23:56.040 --> 01:23:57.950
scale ground combat operations ?

01:24:00.810 --> 01:24:03.032
So that's a , that's a great question .

01:24:03.032 --> 01:24:05.143
Um , how we actually , uh , have been

01:24:05.143 --> 01:24:07.199
focusing over the past year , uh , I

01:24:07.199 --> 01:24:09.477
kinda highlight three different things .

01:24:09.477 --> 01:24:11.643
Uh , first one , being focusing on the

01:24:11.643 --> 01:24:13.699
fundamentals . Now everybody's heard

01:24:13.699 --> 01:24:15.643
that already probably for the last

01:24:15.643 --> 01:24:15.410
couple of years , the fundamentals ,

01:24:15.490 --> 01:24:17.379
but what exactly does that mean ?

01:24:17.379 --> 01:24:19.712
Because it's become almost a token word ,

01:24:19.712 --> 01:24:21.768
right ? It's very broad , uh , so we

01:24:21.768 --> 01:24:23.990
try to scope it and , and , and make it

01:24:23.990 --> 01:24:23.399
sense to the 4th temperature division ,

01:24:23.450 --> 01:24:26.290
um . Really we focus on what the unit

01:24:26.290 --> 01:24:28.346
is designed to do . What is the unit

01:24:28.346 --> 01:24:30.512
designed to do ? That is , that is the

01:24:30.512 --> 01:24:32.623
purpose , that is what we focus as an

01:24:32.623 --> 01:24:34.790
example is you take away all the other

01:24:34.790 --> 01:24:36.623
distractions , right ? And , and

01:24:36.623 --> 01:24:38.623
typically your metal is gonna drive

01:24:38.623 --> 01:24:40.790
what it is that you focus on . Uh , as

01:24:40.790 --> 01:24:42.623
an example here , you know , air

01:24:42.623 --> 01:24:44.734
assault operations for a battalion or

01:24:44.734 --> 01:24:46.457
striker formation , is there a

01:24:46.457 --> 01:24:48.623
requirement for an entire battalion to

01:24:48.623 --> 01:24:50.846
be a tea of that ? Are there even a tea

01:24:50.846 --> 01:24:50.549
of that under the , the time

01:24:50.549 --> 01:24:52.771
constraints that we give them ? They're

01:24:52.771 --> 01:24:54.882
not , so we changed that , you know ,

01:24:54.882 --> 01:24:57.049
we focus on a company becoming experts

01:24:57.049 --> 01:24:59.105
and not so much familiar , but we're

01:24:59.105 --> 01:25:01.327
looking for mastery . So what that does

01:25:01.327 --> 01:25:02.993
is creates time and space for

01:25:02.993 --> 01:25:05.160
repetition , one of the things that we

01:25:05.160 --> 01:25:04.830
actually don't do so well in the army

01:25:04.830 --> 01:25:07.160
nowadays . Training and certifying

01:25:07.160 --> 01:25:09.216
leaders and staffs , that's , that's

01:25:09.216 --> 01:25:11.271
critical , right ? And that's across

01:25:11.271 --> 01:25:13.438
all war fighting functions and we have

01:25:13.438 --> 01:25:15.660
a pretty good program here uh IV hammer

01:25:15.660 --> 01:25:17.827
program is designed to really bring in

01:25:17.827 --> 01:25:19.938
new , new teammates into the division

01:25:19.938 --> 01:25:21.716
and that's uh the brigade , the

01:25:21.716 --> 01:25:23.716
division , battalion level , and we

01:25:23.716 --> 01:25:25.938
train them some of the stuff that we're

01:25:25.938 --> 01:25:25.040
gonna be requiring them to do in

01:25:25.040 --> 01:25:28.029
multi-domain operations , MDMP I mean

01:25:28.029 --> 01:25:30.140
until their eyes bleed . So there are

01:25:30.140 --> 01:25:32.362
systems and processes that we've poured

01:25:32.362 --> 01:25:34.418
concrete over and made it easier for

01:25:34.418 --> 01:25:36.585
them to assimilate into the team . And

01:25:36.585 --> 01:25:36.220
that's critical . We all know leader

01:25:36.220 --> 01:25:38.180
development is critical across uh

01:25:38.180 --> 01:25:41.209
everything we do . And , and really the

01:25:41.209 --> 01:25:43.209
deliberate integration of our , our

01:25:43.209 --> 01:25:45.431
joint partners , not only them but also

01:25:45.431 --> 01:25:47.542
complic 2 and 3 , and we've done that

01:25:47.542 --> 01:25:49.598
pretty well over this past year as a

01:25:49.598 --> 01:25:51.709
matter of fact , you know , we talked

01:25:51.709 --> 01:25:53.820
about total army , uh , and we can do

01:25:53.820 --> 01:25:53.649
that . A great example of this was a

01:25:53.649 --> 01:25:55.816
fire support exercise , uh , that kind

01:25:55.816 --> 01:25:59.040
of led last year . We had over 60 units ,

01:25:59.220 --> 01:26:01.359
uh , from across the country come Air

01:26:01.359 --> 01:26:04.879
Force , Space Force , Marines , Campo

01:26:04.879 --> 01:26:08.299
2OO 3 . Coming together as well as soft

01:26:08.299 --> 01:26:10.410
to actually conduct an exercise where

01:26:10.410 --> 01:26:12.466
we actually practice uh multi-domain

01:26:12.466 --> 01:26:14.410
operations and learn the different

01:26:14.410 --> 01:26:16.680
domains both here in Penon Canyon in

01:26:16.680 --> 01:26:18.902
New Jersey in a couple different states

01:26:18.902 --> 01:26:21.180
you might be able to remind me of that .

01:26:21.180 --> 01:26:20.939
So those are the three different ways

01:26:20.939 --> 01:26:23.106
that us , uh , have been incorporating

01:26:23.106 --> 01:26:25.217
that into what we do . So if I , if I

01:26:25.217 --> 01:26:27.439
could , Phoenix , you know , the , this

01:26:27.439 --> 01:26:29.661
idea about training at the lowest level

01:26:29.661 --> 01:26:31.717
and having folks that are capable of

01:26:31.717 --> 01:26:31.549
doing their tasks so you can integrate

01:26:31.549 --> 01:26:33.716
it into multi it it has to be common .

01:26:34.029 --> 01:26:36.251
With all our services , what is it that

01:26:36.251 --> 01:26:38.196
you guys do to focus on your skill

01:26:38.196 --> 01:26:40.196
levels that can be complementary to

01:26:40.196 --> 01:26:42.418
multi-domain ? How , how do you develop

01:26:42.418 --> 01:26:44.585
your non-commissioned officers or your

01:26:44.585 --> 01:26:46.807
um junior officers on those things that

01:26:46.807 --> 01:26:48.862
they need to be able to add into the

01:26:48.862 --> 01:26:50.918
multi-domain operations fight ? Yeah

01:26:50.918 --> 01:26:53.140
this is uh this is a great question and

01:26:53.140 --> 01:26:52.990
I , I guess maybe instead of addressing

01:26:52.990 --> 01:26:55.101
our officers let me talk a little bit

01:26:55.101 --> 01:26:57.109
about our our listed corps . So in

01:26:57.109 --> 01:27:00.149
terms of intelligence guardians in the

01:27:00.149 --> 01:27:03.220
space force , uh , almost 20% of them

01:27:03.220 --> 01:27:05.950
are non-Air Force transferees and a

01:27:05.950 --> 01:27:08.006
majority of those are , are from the

01:27:08.006 --> 01:27:11.470
army . And so we really enjoy , uh , a ,

01:27:11.790 --> 01:27:14.939
a joint perspective on how we conduct

01:27:14.939 --> 01:27:16.939
operations . What the other part is

01:27:16.939 --> 01:27:19.640
that's really remarkable is that um our

01:27:19.640 --> 01:27:22.709
average recruit in the space force is

01:27:22.709 --> 01:27:25.899
above the age of 20 . Many of them have

01:27:26.290 --> 01:27:30.080
um . Uh , undergrad degrees , my

01:27:30.080 --> 01:27:32.220
dorm leader in Wright Patterson Air

01:27:32.220 --> 01:27:35.109
Force Base is 30 years old and has a

01:27:35.109 --> 01:27:37.109
master's degree in accounting , but

01:27:37.109 --> 01:27:39.600
this is her first enlistment in the

01:27:39.600 --> 01:27:42.279
space force . And so when you have that

01:27:42.279 --> 01:27:44.279
type of talent , when you have this

01:27:44.279 --> 01:27:46.120
just remarkable technologically

01:27:46.120 --> 01:27:48.479
sophisticated and listed force , you

01:27:48.479 --> 01:27:50.535
can do different types of training .

01:27:50.535 --> 01:27:52.257
You can you you . You may have

01:27:52.257 --> 01:27:54.479
different problems too , but you have ,

01:27:54.479 --> 01:27:56.590
uh , different , uh , different types

01:27:56.590 --> 01:27:58.812
of training that you can start for as a

01:27:58.812 --> 01:28:00.812
as a baseline and , and for us as a

01:28:00.812 --> 01:28:02.423
space force this is gonna be

01:28:02.423 --> 01:28:04.368
challenging because , um , I , I'm

01:28:04.368 --> 01:28:06.535
proud to say and I believe that we are

01:28:06.535 --> 01:28:08.701
the most technologically sophisticated

01:28:08.701 --> 01:28:10.812
force in the world , but in some ways

01:28:10.812 --> 01:28:12.984
we still are using Air Force issued

01:28:12.984 --> 01:28:16.500
kits to gain and maintain . Um ,

01:28:16.770 --> 01:28:19.390
space superiority and so for us it's a

01:28:19.390 --> 01:28:22.189
challenge of not only upskilling our

01:28:22.189 --> 01:28:24.669
guardians so they can confront the

01:28:24.669 --> 01:28:27.549
challenges of tomorrow's operational

01:28:27.549 --> 01:28:29.669
environment but also doing that while

01:28:29.669 --> 01:28:32.790
we are building the rocket in ascent

01:28:32.790 --> 01:28:35.479
velocity . Um , and so for , for us

01:28:35.479 --> 01:28:37.646
it's really challenging . We're trying

01:28:37.646 --> 01:28:39.757
to merge a couple of things there and

01:28:39.757 --> 01:28:41.757
then , you know , man , our officer

01:28:41.757 --> 01:28:44.090
corps is so talented , uh , so talented ,

01:28:44.090 --> 01:28:46.312
but , uh , those really , it's the list

01:28:46.312 --> 01:28:48.646
of corps that carries us and , and , uh ,

01:28:48.646 --> 01:28:50.646
that's our secret superpower in the

01:28:50.646 --> 01:28:49.589
space force .