WEBVTT 00:01.049 --> 00:03.910 Direct from Fort Mead Maryland . This 00:03.920 --> 00:07.800 is Info . Hello and welcome to Dinho 00:08.140 --> 00:10.140 Live . I'm major David J Murphy , a 00:10.149 --> 00:12.119 Dinho instructor and your host for 00:12.130 --> 00:14.180 today's program . On this month's 00:14.189 --> 00:16.245 episode , we'll be talking all about 00:16.245 --> 00:18.245 the practical application of public 00:18.245 --> 00:20.411 affairs with someone who's been around 00:20.411 --> 00:22.745 the career field for a really long time . 00:22.745 --> 00:24.578 I'm glad to welcome our guest to 00:24.578 --> 00:26.578 today's show , Strategic Advisor to 00:26.578 --> 00:28.578 communications and outreach for the 00:28.578 --> 00:30.633 chief of staff of the Army US , army 00:30.633 --> 00:32.745 Colonel David Butler . Welcome to the 00:32.745 --> 00:32.520 program , sir . Thanks Dave . Glad to 00:32.529 --> 00:34.696 be here . Please proceed . Thank you . 00:34.696 --> 00:36.918 Appreciate it . Good to have you here . 00:36.918 --> 00:39.085 Uh We know you're a very busy person . 00:39.085 --> 00:38.380 We really appreciate you taking time 00:38.389 --> 00:40.445 out to be on our program today . But 00:40.445 --> 00:42.556 before we get into our discussion , I 00:42.556 --> 00:44.778 just wanna remind everyone that if they 00:44.778 --> 00:46.833 have any questions for our guests to 00:46.833 --> 00:48.945 please put them in the chat below and 00:48.945 --> 00:51.000 we might just read them on the air . 00:51.000 --> 00:50.889 Bring them on . All right , I like that 00:50.900 --> 00:53.067 attitude , sir . Ok . Well , let's get 00:53.067 --> 00:55.344 on with the questions then first , sir . 00:55.344 --> 00:57.567 Can you tell us a little about yourself 00:57.567 --> 00:59.789 your career in the army and your career 00:59.789 --> 01:01.956 in public affairs . Yeah . Sure . So , 01:01.956 --> 01:01.020 you know , an army is a little bit 01:01.029 --> 01:03.196 different . Uh , we , we become public 01:03.196 --> 01:05.362 affairs officers after having a , uh , 01:05.362 --> 01:07.029 uh job at first . So I was an 01:07.029 --> 01:09.140 infantryman growing up , uh , platoon 01:09.140 --> 01:11.085 leader , company commander , staff 01:11.085 --> 01:14.769 officer and , um , in combat in Iraq 01:14.779 --> 01:16.946 and Afghanistan . And about the time I 01:16.946 --> 01:18.946 was getting promoted to major , the 01:18.946 --> 01:21.001 army told me I was gonna be a public 01:21.001 --> 01:23.001 affairs officer . Yeah , it was , I 01:23.001 --> 01:25.168 mean , it was at first not like on the 01:25.168 --> 01:27.390 track , but I , I went back to memory I 01:27.390 --> 01:30.250 had in Afghanistan where we had uh Greg 01:30.260 --> 01:32.470 Palco from Fox News embedded with us . 01:32.860 --> 01:35.220 And I remember he was broadcasting 01:35.230 --> 01:37.397 right outside our tent , you know , to 01:37.397 --> 01:39.563 the whole world . And I was thinking , 01:39.563 --> 01:41.786 you know , amongst other things that we 01:41.786 --> 01:44.008 had going on . I was like , here's this 01:44.008 --> 01:46.119 guy who's having a profound impact on 01:46.119 --> 01:45.940 the world . You know , he's 01:45.949 --> 01:48.060 communicating to however many million 01:48.060 --> 01:50.190 people . And then , uh when the army 01:50.199 --> 01:52.421 told me I was gonna be a Pao . I said , 01:52.421 --> 01:54.421 you know , I'd like to be a part of 01:54.421 --> 01:56.477 that . That's great . That's great . 01:56.477 --> 01:56.339 You mentioned the army told you you 01:56.349 --> 01:58.660 were gonna be a Pao , had they not told 01:58.669 --> 02:00.947 you or they gonna left you under vices . 02:00.947 --> 02:03.113 What would you have done in the army ? 02:03.113 --> 02:05.849 I would have gone on to be an infantry . 02:06.190 --> 02:08.079 You know , the track is battalion 02:08.079 --> 02:10.079 commander after that , then brigade 02:10.079 --> 02:12.190 commander . So my peers right now are 02:12.190 --> 02:14.468 just finishing up with brigade command . 02:14.468 --> 02:17.910 So in charge about 4000 or so , uh men 02:17.919 --> 02:20.479 or women . And I do often compare that 02:20.490 --> 02:23.139 with public affairs officers because I 02:23.149 --> 02:26.779 think that we really have a , uh , 02:27.619 --> 02:30.220 I don't know , unique ability to make a 02:30.229 --> 02:33.149 big , big difference . And so my peers 02:33.160 --> 02:35.327 are doing great work with , with those 02:35.327 --> 02:37.271 4000 or so folks . And it's really 02:37.271 --> 02:39.327 important and it's very important to 02:39.327 --> 02:41.382 those people . But um you know , I'm 02:41.382 --> 02:43.493 lucky enough to be able to whisper in 02:43.493 --> 02:45.549 the chairman of the joint chiefs ear 02:45.549 --> 02:47.771 before he goes on on the world stage to 02:47.771 --> 02:49.938 talk about what our nation is doing or 02:49.938 --> 02:52.199 the chief staff , the army alongside 02:52.210 --> 02:55.169 him as we , we continue to transform 02:55.179 --> 02:57.550 the army and improve the army . So two 02:57.559 --> 02:59.726 different tracks . And I'll tell you , 02:59.726 --> 03:01.948 I'm , I'm glad I took this one . That's 03:01.948 --> 03:03.892 great to hear that . That's a very 03:03.892 --> 03:06.115 important role you play , sir . And you 03:06.115 --> 03:08.281 know , you've seen a lot of the public 03:08.281 --> 03:08.220 affairs career field change over time . 03:08.229 --> 03:10.285 So talk to people about , you know , 03:10.285 --> 03:12.507 how you've seen the career field change 03:12.507 --> 03:14.673 and where you see it going and perhaps 03:14.673 --> 03:17.007 the next 5 to 10 years . Yeah , I think , 03:17.007 --> 03:19.118 um I mean , obviously , uh we're much 03:19.118 --> 03:21.229 more digital now and uh I think we're 03:21.229 --> 03:23.229 probably gonna end up talking about 03:23.229 --> 03:25.118 social media , right ? Because we 03:25.118 --> 03:28.479 always do . Um I think that that folks 03:28.490 --> 03:30.601 today public affairs officers and and 03:30.601 --> 03:32.601 audiences in general are a lot more 03:32.601 --> 03:35.240 savvy to what's going on in the world . 03:35.250 --> 03:38.220 Uh It's a lot harder to just focus on , 03:38.229 --> 03:40.340 you know , your , your small piece of 03:40.340 --> 03:42.830 the pie because we have , uh you know , 03:42.839 --> 03:45.210 the information environment is , is so 03:45.220 --> 03:47.442 wide and so open . So people have a lot 03:47.442 --> 03:49.600 more awareness and I think that , you 03:49.610 --> 03:51.570 know , that lends to the practical 03:51.580 --> 03:53.636 application of public affairs . It's 03:53.636 --> 03:55.691 important , you know , when we're on 03:55.691 --> 03:57.524 dim posts live or , or we end up 03:57.524 --> 03:59.800 talking about uh something that's 03:59.809 --> 04:01.880 seemingly like a tactical or very 04:01.889 --> 04:04.610 personal thing . Uh Sometimes these , 04:04.619 --> 04:06.786 these conversations can have strategic 04:06.786 --> 04:09.008 impact , hopefully not this one , but , 04:09.008 --> 04:11.410 you know , well sir , put yourself in 04:11.419 --> 04:13.419 the shoes of that kind of battalion 04:13.419 --> 04:15.630 commander uh their Pao , right ? You 04:15.639 --> 04:17.528 know , you're trying to support a 04:17.528 --> 04:19.528 commander who's talking to , like I 04:19.528 --> 04:21.639 said , 4000 troops . Uh what are some 04:21.639 --> 04:23.695 kind of best skills , best practices 04:23.695 --> 04:25.639 that P A pros can leverage to help 04:25.639 --> 04:27.472 support that commander trying to 04:27.472 --> 04:29.850 achieve their effects ? Yeah , so um 04:30.579 --> 04:33.790 first is , and , and we often get this 04:33.799 --> 04:36.519 wrong we as in military leaders , but 04:36.529 --> 04:38.640 also public affairs officers first is 04:38.640 --> 04:40.973 everything's gotta be tied to a purpose , 04:40.973 --> 04:43.010 right ? So you shouldn't ever 04:43.019 --> 04:45.130 communicate just to communicate , you 04:45.130 --> 04:47.359 don't tweet just to send information 04:47.369 --> 04:50.250 out or um you don't give a speech or 04:50.260 --> 04:52.316 talk to your troops without having a 04:52.316 --> 04:54.609 goal in mind and 04:55.769 --> 04:57.700 starting with the end in mind , 04:57.709 --> 05:00.690 starting with a purpose or , or we say , 05:00.700 --> 05:02.533 sometimes , you know , write the 05:02.533 --> 05:04.630 headline first . Um That really 05:04.640 --> 05:06.807 crystallizes what you're gonna say and 05:06.807 --> 05:08.973 how you're gonna say it and really who 05:08.973 --> 05:10.973 you're gonna say it to . Um So that 05:10.973 --> 05:13.829 would be the main coaching I would give , 05:13.839 --> 05:15.839 you know , start with a purpose and 05:15.839 --> 05:18.720 then go after that purpose . Um But in 05:18.730 --> 05:20.619 terms of internal communication , 05:20.619 --> 05:22.730 there's , there's so many different , 05:22.730 --> 05:24.397 you know , venues and ways to 05:24.397 --> 05:26.563 communicate to your force internally . 05:26.563 --> 05:28.980 Um A lot of people default to the need 05:28.989 --> 05:31.380 to do social media on face Facebook 05:31.390 --> 05:33.390 groups and stuff . And I think 05:33.399 --> 05:35.621 interpersonal communication is probably 05:35.621 --> 05:37.788 a better way . Absolutely . Yeah , the 05:37.788 --> 05:39.621 Air Force actually does a survey 05:39.621 --> 05:41.843 amongst their troops amongst the entire 05:41.843 --> 05:43.955 air force called the where airmen and 05:43.955 --> 05:46.066 Guardians get their information . And 05:46.066 --> 05:48.232 it's really surprising to see just how 05:48.232 --> 05:50.177 our troops want to be communicated 05:50.177 --> 05:52.343 toward . Actually , that kind of leads 05:52.343 --> 05:54.566 into a question that we received before 05:54.566 --> 05:56.732 the show . So as you may know , we put 05:56.732 --> 05:58.677 this notification out to the , the 05:58.677 --> 06:00.732 wider audience to say , hey , let us 06:00.732 --> 06:02.843 know your questions . And we actually 06:02.843 --> 06:04.899 got a question via email from Mike D 06:04.899 --> 06:07.010 who asks that uh the defense Business 06:07.010 --> 06:08.510 board released a report on 06:08.510 --> 06:10.959 communicating in large organizations . 06:11.230 --> 06:13.286 Can you give us your experience with 06:13.286 --> 06:15.508 internal communications ? What's worked 06:15.508 --> 06:17.563 for you ? And also have you read the 06:17.563 --> 06:19.786 report ? So you know , what's your take 06:19.786 --> 06:21.952 on it if you have ? Um That's not Mike 06:21.952 --> 06:23.841 D from the beastie boys . Right . 06:23.841 --> 06:23.549 That's it . No . No , no . Ok . Well , 06:23.559 --> 06:25.859 we don't know . Maybe it could be . I 06:25.869 --> 06:28.091 know . But , yeah , it would be neat if 06:28.091 --> 06:30.313 it was , wouldn't it ? It would be very 06:30.313 --> 06:32.647 cool . I don't know if he's still alive . 06:32.647 --> 06:34.536 I assume he's anyway , uh , I , I 06:34.536 --> 06:36.536 haven't read the report . It sounds 06:36.536 --> 06:36.500 like a report . I , I'd wanna read 06:36.510 --> 06:38.677 actually . It's actually a pretty neat 06:38.677 --> 06:40.788 document . I recommend it . Cool . Uh 06:41.000 --> 06:43.950 So internal communications is really 06:43.959 --> 06:46.429 fun . I think it's uh it comes down to 06:46.440 --> 06:49.380 the basic um blocking and tackling to 06:49.390 --> 06:51.459 put out and , and I've been very 06:51.470 --> 06:53.470 fortunate to have been part of some 06:53.470 --> 06:55.637 really great organizations with good , 06:55.637 --> 06:58.230 good teams and good staffs . And if you 06:58.239 --> 07:00.350 think about the impact , you can have 07:00.350 --> 07:02.510 of putting out a weekly one page 07:02.519 --> 07:04.630 newsletter with a very , you know , 07:04.640 --> 07:06.640 very simple story about somebody in 07:06.640 --> 07:08.696 your organization that did something 07:08.696 --> 07:10.751 well , or , you know , that's been a 07:10.751 --> 07:12.751 part of the organization for a long 07:12.751 --> 07:14.940 time um that the impact that you can 07:14.950 --> 07:17.579 have with just that simple thing uh 07:17.589 --> 07:20.200 goes a really , really long way . And I 07:20.209 --> 07:23.589 uh I remember those things fondly um 07:24.329 --> 07:27.440 also put in your , you know , your mass 07:27.450 --> 07:29.920 communication specialists to use 07:29.929 --> 07:33.149 internally , the photos , the videos 07:33.429 --> 07:35.429 with an internal focus , not always 07:35.429 --> 07:37.540 just thinking about what you're gonna 07:37.540 --> 07:39.707 put out to the public uh that can go a 07:39.707 --> 07:41.929 long way and I'm not talking about cake 07:41.929 --> 07:43.985 cutting ceremonies I'm talking about 07:43.985 --> 07:45.873 candid uh depictions of what your 07:45.873 --> 07:48.040 organization's mission is . Absolutely 07:48.040 --> 07:50.096 that honesty and integrity , right ? 07:50.096 --> 07:52.262 Coming from the you scripted moments , 07:52.262 --> 07:54.373 right ? You know , we actually have a 07:54.373 --> 07:56.429 little bit of a date debate going on 07:56.429 --> 07:56.410 and a kind of , you know , question 07:56.420 --> 07:58.642 about this and I wanna get your take on 07:58.642 --> 08:00.864 it , sir . So obviously , when we teach 08:00.864 --> 08:02.864 public affairs at the schoolhouse , 08:02.864 --> 08:05.031 there's three basic strategies that we 08:05.031 --> 08:04.000 teach , right ? There's command 08:04.010 --> 08:06.899 information , community relations and 08:06.910 --> 08:08.799 media engagement , right ? And so 08:08.899 --> 08:10.621 obviously , you know , command 08:10.621 --> 08:12.677 information , internal information , 08:12.677 --> 08:14.788 it's kind of talking to your troops , 08:14.788 --> 08:13.790 right ? And you know , communicating 08:13.799 --> 08:16.399 internally . Uh but the the spouses of 08:16.410 --> 08:18.077 service members , if you were 08:18.077 --> 08:20.299 communicating with them and you want to 08:20.299 --> 08:22.354 align them with the strategy , would 08:22.354 --> 08:24.521 that be a command information strategy 08:24.521 --> 08:26.577 because they're the , you know , the 08:26.577 --> 08:28.743 they're related to the spouse or would 08:28.743 --> 08:28.420 that be community engagement because 08:28.429 --> 08:30.720 you're talking to civilians primarily ? 08:30.890 --> 08:33.320 How would you relate that ? Um That's 08:33.330 --> 08:36.039 funny . I , I think , I think that 08:36.340 --> 08:39.390 that's internal communications and um 08:39.400 --> 08:41.622 it's a , it's a difficult population to 08:41.630 --> 08:45.539 reach actually , um and reach in an 08:45.549 --> 08:47.549 authentic way and some of the stuff 08:47.549 --> 08:50.580 that we talked about to think that your 08:50.590 --> 08:52.780 troop is gonna go home and pass the 08:52.789 --> 08:56.020 information to their spouse is less 08:56.030 --> 08:57.919 than likely . And the spouses who 08:57.919 --> 08:59.808 really needed the spouses who are 08:59.808 --> 09:01.863 disconnected from the organization , 09:01.863 --> 09:03.808 it's even less likely that their , 09:03.808 --> 09:05.641 their trooper is gonna pass that 09:05.641 --> 09:07.530 information So you've got to find 09:07.530 --> 09:09.697 unique and novel ways to do it . But I 09:09.697 --> 09:12.659 think the best ways are at the lower 09:12.669 --> 09:14.859 levels , you know , at , at what , you 09:14.869 --> 09:16.925 know , in the army would say company 09:16.925 --> 09:19.091 level or below where you have a little 09:19.091 --> 09:21.425 bit more personal connection , you know , 09:21.425 --> 09:23.369 does a brigade commander or a wing 09:23.369 --> 09:26.409 commander need to be talking to spouses ? 09:26.880 --> 09:29.179 Not on the regular , probably . Yeah , 09:29.190 --> 09:31.412 absolutely . So , we've seen our career 09:31.412 --> 09:33.523 field kind of evolve and advance over 09:33.523 --> 09:35.634 time within the Department of Defense 09:35.634 --> 09:37.746 and specifically within operations in 09:37.746 --> 09:39.746 the information environment . We've 09:39.746 --> 09:41.968 seen public affairs , you know , really 09:41.968 --> 09:41.929 kind of being treated as this 09:41.940 --> 09:44.070 information force that's vital toward 09:44.080 --> 09:46.302 the commander achieving their effects . 09:46.302 --> 09:48.413 So , from your perspective , sir , uh 09:48.413 --> 09:50.024 how do we best support other 09:50.024 --> 09:52.080 information forces and how do we get 09:52.080 --> 09:54.247 other information forces to support us 09:54.247 --> 09:53.799 kind of way ? How have you seen success 09:53.809 --> 09:56.710 there ? Um Well , you've got , when you 09:56.719 --> 09:58.886 say other information force , you mean 09:58.886 --> 10:02.280 like partner partners mill miso civil 10:02.289 --> 10:04.229 affairs , um those type of 10:04.239 --> 10:07.710 organizations , right ? Um Well , first 10:07.719 --> 10:10.140 you've got to find him . Yeah . Yeah , 10:10.150 --> 10:12.261 that's a , that's a actually good and 10:12.261 --> 10:14.520 difficult example . Um First you've got 10:14.530 --> 10:16.752 to find him and have relationships with 10:16.752 --> 10:18.820 them . Um You know , I come from the 10:18.830 --> 10:20.774 special operations community and I 10:20.774 --> 10:22.608 learned a lot about building out 10:22.608 --> 10:24.919 networks and in that case , it was , 10:25.169 --> 10:27.280 you know , for targeting terrorists , 10:27.280 --> 10:30.140 but it , in this case , um you have to 10:30.150 --> 10:33.669 develop a network of communicators and 10:33.679 --> 10:35.846 a network of , of people who are gonna 10:35.846 --> 10:38.200 communicate on your behalf or need to 10:38.210 --> 10:41.890 be communicated to . And uh once you do 10:41.900 --> 10:44.109 that and you're willing to get away 10:44.119 --> 10:46.175 from the email and like have face to 10:46.175 --> 10:48.640 face conversations or , or on the phone 10:48.650 --> 10:52.049 conversations , you find that most , 10:52.130 --> 10:54.019 most of the time your network can 10:54.019 --> 10:56.929 really , really , uh uh you know , 10:56.940 --> 10:59.380 double and triple your ability to 10:59.390 --> 11:01.669 communicate . And so I would say that 11:01.679 --> 11:03.290 some personal experiences in 11:03.290 --> 11:05.290 Afghanistan if you want me to go on 11:05.290 --> 11:08.820 forever , uh , when we got there , um , 11:09.030 --> 11:11.252 you know , it was the Americans weren't 11:11.252 --> 11:13.474 communicating that much with the Afghan 11:13.474 --> 11:16.270 population . We saw some difficulty 11:16.280 --> 11:18.940 with the Afghans doing it and we saw 11:18.950 --> 11:21.760 some need for them to hear an American 11:21.770 --> 11:24.489 voice or at least the NATO voice . And 11:24.500 --> 11:26.909 so we just started calling reporters , 11:26.919 --> 11:29.119 Afghan reporters , we started having 11:29.130 --> 11:31.352 them in for , you know , a cup of tea . 11:31.352 --> 11:33.463 We would , we would drive out and all 11:33.463 --> 11:35.469 around Kabul and all around uh 11:35.479 --> 11:37.719 Afghanistan actually to go meet with 11:37.729 --> 11:39.840 these folks . And then we , we'd have 11:39.840 --> 11:42.007 little whatsapp groups and any time we 11:42.007 --> 11:44.173 needed to communicate something , then 11:44.173 --> 11:47.270 we sling it to a variety of folks in 11:47.280 --> 11:50.390 kind of a personal way . And uh that 11:50.400 --> 11:52.511 just took off , it was just like that 11:52.511 --> 11:54.733 we had so many people communicating , I 11:54.733 --> 11:56.678 say on our behalf , it sounds like 11:56.678 --> 11:58.844 influence , it is influence , but it's 11:58.844 --> 12:00.900 just also information getting it out 12:00.900 --> 12:03.450 there . And so , uh , the network is 12:03.460 --> 12:05.627 really important . Absolutely . 100% . 12:05.630 --> 12:07.908 Can you talk to me about ? What's your , 12:07.908 --> 12:10.130 what was your biggest communication win 12:10.130 --> 12:12.352 that you had in your career where you , 12:12.352 --> 12:11.989 you put an implementation and you had 12:12.000 --> 12:14.167 great effects out of it . Yeah , great 12:14.167 --> 12:16.500 effects . It's a good , a good way , uh , 12:16.500 --> 12:18.500 to think about it . Right . Because 12:18.500 --> 12:21.659 we're purpose driven . Um , well , I'll 12:21.669 --> 12:25.280 just go back to one . We had 12:25.409 --> 12:27.576 this newsletter , I'll talk about this 12:27.576 --> 12:29.631 newsletter forever . Right . So , we 12:29.631 --> 12:31.576 were at the , uh , special Warfare 12:31.576 --> 12:33.576 Center and school . It's where they 12:33.576 --> 12:35.687 trained special forces , uh , men and 12:35.687 --> 12:38.510 women and miso and , um , and civil 12:38.520 --> 12:41.380 affairs at , for liberty . And , uh , 12:41.390 --> 12:43.919 we were trying to do some external 12:43.929 --> 12:46.390 communication but really didn't have 12:46.400 --> 12:49.059 that much of a venue to do it . So we 12:49.070 --> 12:51.270 started newsletter , just me and , and 12:51.280 --> 12:54.270 a couple of my team and I just an email 12:54.280 --> 12:56.859 newsletter . Right ? Or was it a ? Yeah . 12:56.869 --> 12:59.450 So , uh , funny enough we did some 12:59.460 --> 13:01.789 physical , uh , distribution of it . 13:01.979 --> 13:04.340 Where do you think we put it ? I 13:04.349 --> 13:06.570 imagine in the places where the troops 13:06.580 --> 13:08.802 are , where they're going to put in the 13:08.802 --> 13:11.136 latrines from ? Yeah , that makes sense . 13:11.136 --> 13:13.413 That makes sense . Uh , and , you know , 13:13.413 --> 13:15.636 this was a , this is a schoolhouse . So 13:15.636 --> 13:17.802 we're talking to instructors and cadre 13:17.802 --> 13:19.802 and stuff . So , a lot of them were 13:19.802 --> 13:22.979 more senior . Um , so we put some 13:22.989 --> 13:25.299 physical newsletter out , uh , in the 13:25.309 --> 13:27.420 latrines and and around post and this 13:27.420 --> 13:29.587 is just , you know , printing a couple 13:29.587 --> 13:31.698 of 100 pages . And um and then we did 13:31.698 --> 13:35.039 also blasted out via uh email . And um 13:36.130 --> 13:38.859 I just remember people that worked 13:38.869 --> 13:40.849 there for a while . I , there were 13:40.859 --> 13:43.081 people coming to us with tears in their 13:43.081 --> 13:44.989 eyes . Yeah , they would come and 13:45.000 --> 13:47.250 they'd be hugging us . And I read the 13:47.260 --> 13:49.760 story about Joe . I never knew that 13:49.770 --> 13:52.109 about him . He's such a great member of 13:52.119 --> 13:53.897 the team . And it was like this 13:53.897 --> 13:57.659 internal pride that , that uh man , 13:57.669 --> 14:00.070 I'll never forget how powerful that was . 14:00.229 --> 14:02.799 It wasn't talking on the national stage , 14:02.809 --> 14:05.340 uh which , you know , we've , I've done 14:05.349 --> 14:08.119 uh for quite a few years . It was just 14:08.130 --> 14:10.700 a really personal impact and you said 14:10.710 --> 14:12.909 effects , I think that affected the 14:12.919 --> 14:15.252 organization quite a bit . People in it , 14:15.252 --> 14:17.308 they would look forward each week to 14:17.308 --> 14:19.252 our newsletter and , you know , it 14:19.252 --> 14:21.475 didn't take that long . It was a little 14:21.475 --> 14:23.586 bit of a , it was a little bit of a , 14:23.586 --> 14:25.752 you know , a weight that we had around 14:25.752 --> 14:25.340 our neck because every , every week 14:25.349 --> 14:28.750 you're producing a story . But um but 14:28.760 --> 14:31.239 anyway , that , that we had great 14:31.250 --> 14:33.250 impact there . I , I really enjoyed 14:33.250 --> 14:35.139 that if anything , it's a forcing 14:35.139 --> 14:37.306 function , right ? And it kinda , it , 14:37.306 --> 14:37.280 it allows you to sort of be like , well , 14:37.289 --> 14:39.400 I need to cover that thing so give me 14:39.400 --> 14:41.511 the access so I can cover it so I can 14:41.511 --> 14:41.260 write the story and make your 14:41.270 --> 14:43.437 newsletter , it was a force function . 14:43.437 --> 14:45.548 It actually was , yeah , on the other 14:45.548 --> 14:47.826 end of the spectrum , right ? You know , 14:47.826 --> 14:49.937 we obviously do many different things 14:49.937 --> 14:51.992 or try to communicate and not all of 14:51.992 --> 14:51.989 those communication effects go as 14:52.000 --> 14:53.944 planned or are as successful as we 14:53.944 --> 14:56.167 hoped . Have there been any experiences 14:56.167 --> 14:58.389 like that for you ? And if there were , 14:58.389 --> 14:57.960 what did you learn from those 14:57.969 --> 15:01.679 experiences ? Um Yeah , so you'll 15:01.690 --> 15:03.912 remember that . I uh I work for General 15:03.912 --> 15:06.023 Millie uh for three years when he was 15:06.023 --> 15:08.190 the chairman of the Drone chiefs . And 15:08.190 --> 15:10.190 um and , you know , we went through 15:10.190 --> 15:11.968 some , some mild times that was 15:11.968 --> 15:14.023 difficult time in our nation . And , 15:14.159 --> 15:16.549 and uh General Millie was often , you 15:16.559 --> 15:20.559 know , the one uniform person in uh 15:20.780 --> 15:24.080 in several rooms with , with uh all of 15:24.090 --> 15:27.590 our political leadership and uh I 15:27.599 --> 15:30.270 missed the ball on this one thing . So 15:31.039 --> 15:32.940 he , he's testifying in front of 15:32.950 --> 15:36.659 Congress and um and 15:36.669 --> 15:38.836 one of the members of Congress kind of 15:38.836 --> 15:41.219 went after him and the secretary of 15:41.229 --> 15:45.030 Defense for um for like , you 15:45.039 --> 15:47.080 know , some , something about being 15:47.090 --> 15:49.201 woke or a class they were teaching at 15:49.201 --> 15:52.479 West Point . And um and General Millie 15:52.489 --> 15:55.200 kind of launched off uh you know , 15:55.210 --> 15:58.119 pretty aggressively and talked about 15:58.530 --> 16:02.159 um you know , where , where de I came 16:02.169 --> 16:05.690 from and , and uh it was a pretty big 16:05.700 --> 16:07.978 deal . It was actually such a big deal . 16:07.978 --> 16:10.159 I've never before been trending on 16:10.169 --> 16:12.169 Twitter , not just your algorithm . 16:12.169 --> 16:14.225 Showing you like , this is the stuff 16:14.225 --> 16:16.447 you wanna see . We were trending number 16:16.447 --> 16:19.179 three on all of the world's Twitter . 16:19.349 --> 16:22.070 This , this little clip . It was a 16:22.080 --> 16:23.802 really big deal . My phone was 16:23.809 --> 16:25.976 obviously blowing up . I mean , people 16:25.976 --> 16:28.031 everywhere had some type of response 16:28.031 --> 16:30.969 and what he said , um , probably at 16:30.979 --> 16:34.140 face value most people would generally 16:34.150 --> 16:37.619 agree with and , um , it was important 16:37.630 --> 16:40.859 to a lot of populations that are forced 16:40.869 --> 16:42.710 to hear , uh , that , you know , 16:42.719 --> 16:45.239 General Millie standing up for , for 16:45.250 --> 16:47.306 all different race colors and creeds 16:47.306 --> 16:51.000 and our force . Um , but I 16:51.010 --> 16:53.121 thought that was a great thing at the 16:53.121 --> 16:55.177 time . I was like , here we go , you 16:55.177 --> 16:57.288 know , our chairman speaking up for . 16:57.288 --> 16:59.288 What's right . Well , it was just a 16:59.288 --> 17:03.030 couple weeks later that , uh , the 17:03.039 --> 17:06.670 narrative really started to shift and , 17:06.680 --> 17:10.619 um , we went through years after that , 17:10.630 --> 17:12.739 uh , bad times and the people were 17:12.750 --> 17:15.510 using that to , to bash your military 17:15.520 --> 17:17.687 and social media , you know , became a 17:17.687 --> 17:21.310 massive cesspool of 17:21.319 --> 17:23.390 personal attacks and attacks against 17:23.400 --> 17:26.209 the military , all based on just a 17:26.219 --> 17:28.552 couple of minutes . He said in Congress . 17:28.800 --> 17:32.170 And so as a public affairs officer , 17:32.619 --> 17:35.260 I was kind of into the moment I should 17:35.270 --> 17:37.492 have been able to see around the corner 17:37.492 --> 17:41.000 a little bit . And if I did , I think I 17:41.010 --> 17:43.689 could have tried to , uh , 17:44.640 --> 17:48.510 uh , maybe steer the attack dogs a 17:48.520 --> 17:50.853 little bit to maybe something different . 17:50.853 --> 17:52.939 But once it took off , you know , it 17:52.949 --> 17:55.589 was out of our hands . Had a life of 17:55.599 --> 17:57.599 its own . Right . Yeah . Yeah , you 17:57.599 --> 17:59.877 want another show , of course , please . 17:59.877 --> 18:03.140 So Afghanistan , um uh 18:03.150 --> 18:06.939 General Razi uh Kandahar police chief 18:07.619 --> 18:09.508 got shot and killed right next to 18:09.640 --> 18:11.529 General Miller . The four star in 18:11.529 --> 18:13.584 Afghanistan . I was right there with 18:13.584 --> 18:17.469 him . Right . And um obviously if the 18:17.479 --> 18:19.630 four star , the American four star is 18:19.640 --> 18:22.780 in a firefight , that's big news . So 18:23.569 --> 18:26.040 I holstered my weapon and I called 18:26.050 --> 18:28.106 Barbara Starr , first person Barbara 18:28.106 --> 18:30.750 Starr CNN Pentagon correspondent . And 18:30.760 --> 18:32.927 I was like , Barb , I want you to know 18:32.927 --> 18:35.038 General Miller is alive . The mission 18:35.038 --> 18:37.260 continues . But we were in a little bit 18:37.260 --> 18:39.204 of a scrap , right ? Because I was 18:39.204 --> 18:43.010 thinking I need to , I need to focus on 18:43.020 --> 18:45.829 kind of the world media right now and 18:45.839 --> 18:49.540 um make sure that people don't 18:49.550 --> 18:51.829 think Afghanistan has gone completely 18:51.839 --> 18:54.061 awry . You know , this is in , this was 18:54.061 --> 18:57.849 in uh 2017 or 18 . And uh I 18:57.859 --> 19:00.199 did that , Barb ran with it , you know , 19:00.209 --> 19:01.820 then I , you know , I got to 19:01.820 --> 19:03.931 communicate with the Pentagon Press . 19:04.750 --> 19:07.859 It wasn't two days later that uh New 19:07.869 --> 19:10.147 York Times reporter called me and said , 19:10.147 --> 19:13.569 hey , you know that in Afghanistan , 19:13.579 --> 19:17.319 most people think Miller , the American 19:17.420 --> 19:21.290 killed Razi the Afghan . And of 19:21.300 --> 19:23.244 course , I was like , what are you 19:23.244 --> 19:25.356 talking about ? That's crazy . Um And 19:25.356 --> 19:27.411 there's the public affairs mantra is 19:27.411 --> 19:29.699 like , you don't engage crazy because 19:29.709 --> 19:31.780 you're giving it more , you know , 19:31.790 --> 19:34.250 gravitas or you're giving it , giving 19:34.260 --> 19:36.482 more , you're fueling the fire , giving 19:36.482 --> 19:38.538 it more spotlight . So , first I was 19:38.538 --> 19:40.649 like , we're not gonna address any of 19:40.649 --> 19:43.410 these crazy rumors . Well , it took off 19:43.420 --> 19:46.209 and , uh , a large majority of the 19:46.219 --> 19:48.386 Afghan population believed that's what 19:48.386 --> 19:51.530 happened . It's conspiracy theory . But , 19:51.540 --> 19:54.229 um , that was another time when we got 19:54.239 --> 19:57.260 caught looking , it was crazy . Well , 19:57.500 --> 19:59.722 those are some really amazing stories . 19:59.722 --> 20:01.944 Do you have any perhaps unusual or kind 20:01.944 --> 20:04.111 of strange stories that you've kind or 20:04.111 --> 20:06.222 experiences that you've had in your , 20:06.222 --> 20:08.167 in your career as a public affairs 20:08.167 --> 20:10.222 professional ? And I would say , did 20:10.222 --> 20:12.556 they inform or shape your career at all ? 20:12.556 --> 20:15.839 Um , I mean , I was luckily I got 20:15.849 --> 20:18.071 brought up in , in special operations , 20:18.071 --> 20:22.060 so I was able to do some amazing things 20:22.069 --> 20:24.180 that a lot of public affairs officers 20:24.180 --> 20:27.010 weren't able to do . So I would say , 20:27.020 --> 20:29.242 uh , certainly traveling all around the 20:29.242 --> 20:31.353 world . Um , I was talking to some of 20:31.353 --> 20:33.520 the crew here , you know , I've , I've 20:33.520 --> 20:36.469 got to sail around on a ship and , and , 20:36.479 --> 20:39.579 uh , do national level operations 20:40.489 --> 20:44.089 from a very tactical perspective . So 20:44.660 --> 20:48.150 in those positions , while we were 20:48.160 --> 20:50.589 lucky enough to , you know , be able to 20:50.599 --> 20:52.989 edit the President's speech , you know , 20:53.000 --> 20:55.910 like they would send it to us and say 20:55.930 --> 20:58.510 you guys did this operation , what do 20:58.520 --> 21:00.687 you think we should say about it ? And 21:00.687 --> 21:02.687 that's a , that's a really cool and 21:02.687 --> 21:04.853 interesting uh thing . So I would just 21:04.853 --> 21:07.819 say that , um , never never turn your 21:07.829 --> 21:09.996 back on opportunities like that . Just 21:09.996 --> 21:11.979 got dive in . You're good enough , 21:12.219 --> 21:14.108 right ? Uh You're just as good as 21:14.108 --> 21:16.330 anybody else doing this kind of thing . 21:16.330 --> 21:18.441 So take them head on , right ? Afraid 21:18.441 --> 21:20.552 of the opportunity . It's good , good 21:20.552 --> 21:22.830 words of advice for sure . Uh You know , 21:22.830 --> 21:21.989 sir , obviously you've been in the 21:22.000 --> 21:24.579 military for quite a while . So have I 21:24.589 --> 21:26.922 done looking at retirement here and the , 21:27.010 --> 21:29.060 the foreseeable future ? Uh I , I'm 21:29.069 --> 21:30.791 curious , you know , from your 21:30.791 --> 21:32.902 perspective , sir , when you take off 21:32.902 --> 21:32.579 the uniform , do you plan to continue 21:32.589 --> 21:34.410 to pursue kind of the strategic 21:34.420 --> 21:36.587 communication in the civilian world or 21:36.587 --> 21:38.642 are you gonna do something else like 21:38.642 --> 21:40.959 woodworking ? Who knows ? Um , it'd be 21:40.969 --> 21:43.599 fun just to like work on cars . Uh , 21:44.930 --> 21:47.750 anyway , unfortunately , or maybe 21:47.760 --> 21:49.982 fortunately I think I'm gonna have to , 21:49.982 --> 21:52.149 I , I think I'm gonna continue to work 21:52.149 --> 21:53.760 and I think it's gonna be in 21:53.760 --> 21:55.927 communication . I mean , I , I do love 21:55.927 --> 21:58.790 what we do . Um , it's fun . It's 21:58.800 --> 22:01.510 important . It's , uh , you know , it's 22:01.719 --> 22:03.608 human beings right ? There's , we 22:03.608 --> 22:06.390 communicate , it's , it's , uh , it's 22:07.310 --> 22:10.880 kinda organic to who we are . And 22:10.890 --> 22:14.000 so , uh I love doing it and I think I 22:14.010 --> 22:15.899 would , I would look forward to a 22:15.899 --> 22:18.099 civilian career doing . My wife gives 22:18.109 --> 22:20.109 me some snacks sometimes and says , 22:20.109 --> 22:22.109 well , if you get out of the army , 22:22.109 --> 22:24.165 you're gonna be a spokesperson for a 22:24.165 --> 22:27.099 dog food company . And so I just say , 22:27.369 --> 22:29.859 uh , not that dog food isn't important 22:29.869 --> 22:33.349 but part of being passionate about 22:33.359 --> 22:36.099 communications is , is doing it for 22:36.109 --> 22:38.220 like a real , you know , foundational 22:38.220 --> 22:41.229 purpose . So I think , I think in 22:41.239 --> 22:43.406 communicating on behalf of the army is 22:43.406 --> 22:45.350 a very important function and it's 22:45.350 --> 22:47.572 definitely something very significant . 22:47.572 --> 22:49.628 So whatever you end up doing after , 22:49.628 --> 22:51.683 when hopefully the army gets to keep 22:51.683 --> 22:51.239 you for many , many more years before 22:51.250 --> 22:53.530 that happens , uh I hope it's as uh 22:53.540 --> 22:55.651 significant as , as what you're doing 22:55.651 --> 22:57.929 currently or at least gets close to it . 22:57.929 --> 23:00.619 And , you know , obviously you've , 23:00.630 --> 23:02.852 you've learned quite a bit , right ? We 23:02.852 --> 23:05.019 talked a little bit about , you know , 23:05.019 --> 23:04.390 private sector , right ? Because that's 23:04.400 --> 23:06.670 eventually uh where we may end up and , 23:06.680 --> 23:08.902 you know , we have audience members who 23:08.902 --> 23:11.013 I think are from the private sector . 23:11.013 --> 23:13.069 So my question to you is considering 23:13.069 --> 23:15.180 how much uh public affairs and public 23:15.180 --> 23:17.347 relations learns from one another . Uh 23:17.347 --> 23:17.069 Do you think there are any lessons we 23:17.079 --> 23:19.301 can learn from the private sector about 23:19.301 --> 23:21.468 how they use strategic communication ? 23:21.468 --> 23:24.510 Yeah . Sure . Um You know , one thing 23:24.520 --> 23:27.910 that they do is they only seem to 23:27.920 --> 23:29.910 communicate when they're trying to 23:29.920 --> 23:33.819 achieve something . Um We , we 23:33.829 --> 23:37.319 very often and I think it's part of 23:37.770 --> 23:40.699 to what we teach probably here is we 23:40.709 --> 23:43.319 wanna do media or , you know , we wanna 23:43.329 --> 23:47.050 do social media and um as we talked 23:47.060 --> 23:49.180 about it before a little bit about 23:49.189 --> 23:51.245 making sure you're tied to a purpose 23:51.245 --> 23:54.859 each time . Um So when we get 23:54.869 --> 23:57.250 invites to go speak somewhere . The 23:57.260 --> 23:59.593 chief , get the chief staff of the army , 23:59.593 --> 24:01.704 gets invites to speak somewhere or um 24:01.704 --> 24:03.871 he gets an invite to do an interview . 24:04.060 --> 24:07.420 I'm thinking what purpose are we trying 24:07.430 --> 24:10.800 to achieve ? Maybe the purpose is just 24:10.810 --> 24:13.910 being transparent . Um I don't 24:13.920 --> 24:17.160 necessarily drive my calendar towards 24:17.170 --> 24:19.281 just being transparent all the time . 24:19.349 --> 24:21.760 I'm usually tied to some type of 24:21.770 --> 24:24.760 purpose . When you look at the civilian 24:24.770 --> 24:26.770 world , at least in my experience , 24:27.589 --> 24:29.756 they don't go out of their way just to 24:29.756 --> 24:33.459 communicate . They um they have 24:33.540 --> 24:37.099 ends and means tied to everything that 24:37.109 --> 24:41.040 they do . And um and you 24:41.050 --> 24:42.699 know , that's purpose driven 24:42.709 --> 24:45.239 communication , which I'm a champion of , 24:45.900 --> 24:47.900 you know , it's , it's an important 24:47.900 --> 24:50.122 thing to keep in mind for sure . Uh You 24:50.122 --> 24:52.289 know , obviously the future holds many 24:52.289 --> 24:54.400 different things , right ? And one of 24:54.400 --> 24:56.622 those things and can't escape it is the 24:56.622 --> 24:58.844 advents uh of artificial intelligence , 24:58.844 --> 25:00.844 right ? It's , it accelerating at a 25:00.844 --> 25:03.939 extremely fast rate . Uh I was watching , 25:04.069 --> 25:05.902 you know , this program and it's 25:05.902 --> 25:07.958 showing how it's being integrated at 25:07.958 --> 25:10.180 the operating system level on computers 25:10.180 --> 25:12.291 and whatnot . And so I'm curious from 25:12.291 --> 25:14.402 your perspective and , you know , not 25:14.402 --> 25:16.569 in any sort of official dod capacity , 25:16.569 --> 25:16.209 but just generally speaking , uh what 25:16.219 --> 25:18.140 do you think A I means for us as 25:18.150 --> 25:21.420 communicators going forward ? Yeah . Um 25:21.430 --> 25:24.819 I just start this with um 25:25.300 --> 25:28.000 I've had the benefit of , of 25:28.010 --> 25:30.680 communicating with uh some of the 25:30.689 --> 25:34.180 industry leaders on this . Um You know , 25:34.189 --> 25:36.245 I , I get to hang out with the chief 25:36.245 --> 25:38.467 and he meets a lot of cool people . One 25:38.467 --> 25:40.578 of the things that , that stayed with 25:40.578 --> 25:42.790 me and stayed with him is that they s 25:42.800 --> 25:45.150 it was , um , anyway , I won't name the 25:45.160 --> 25:47.271 person , won't name the company . But 25:47.271 --> 25:49.489 they said , you know , they invested , 25:49.849 --> 25:52.989 uh I think it was like 200 million 25:53.000 --> 25:56.640 for uh two years with a 25:56.650 --> 25:59.180 small number of people . And that got 25:59.189 --> 26:03.040 us to basically where Chat GP T is and 26:03.050 --> 26:06.910 now they're investing like six times 26:06.920 --> 26:09.031 that six times the amount of people . 26:09.031 --> 26:12.829 So if you think of how much A 26:12.839 --> 26:15.430 I has taken off , I love Chat G BT . By 26:15.439 --> 26:17.328 the way , I use it all the time . 26:17.410 --> 26:20.760 That's not an endorsement . If you 26:20.770 --> 26:22.937 think about how much it's changed just 26:22.937 --> 26:24.992 in the past two years or even less , 26:24.992 --> 26:28.119 right ? That , that's gonna be 26:28.130 --> 26:31.239 exponential about uh you know , how 26:31.250 --> 26:34.109 much it's gonna uh take off . And so 26:34.239 --> 26:36.350 we've got to be ready . I forgot what 26:36.350 --> 26:38.572 you asked me . Actually , I'll just say 26:38.572 --> 26:41.119 that the , the introduction of deep 26:41.130 --> 26:43.119 fakes . Um 26:43.979 --> 26:47.959 The uh what a lot of 26:47.969 --> 26:50.439 public affairs people do . Sounds like 26:50.910 --> 26:54.020 a I chat GP T , a lot of press releases 26:54.030 --> 26:56.030 I read could have been written by a 26:56.030 --> 26:59.229 computer . This is one way I use it if , 26:59.239 --> 27:01.790 if I have to give a talk or a speech or , 27:01.800 --> 27:03.800 you know , farewell or promotion or 27:03.800 --> 27:07.339 something . I um I , I write that in 27:07.349 --> 27:10.310 chat GP Z and say , give me a speech or 27:10.319 --> 27:13.170 promote . Uh , so , and so , and they 27:13.180 --> 27:15.349 give a speech and then I'm taken back 27:15.359 --> 27:18.969 because it's likely , you know , close 27:18.979 --> 27:21.140 to what I would have said , then you 27:21.150 --> 27:23.150 gotta crumple that up . It's on the 27:23.150 --> 27:25.483 phone . So you don't do that . But , um , 27:25.483 --> 27:27.706 and say I'm gonna say something genuine 27:27.706 --> 27:29.928 instead like something that chat GP t , 27:29.928 --> 27:31.983 can't even come up with , right ? So 27:31.983 --> 27:34.150 you , you can use it also to challenge 27:34.150 --> 27:36.039 yourself . Not just to cheat , of 27:36.039 --> 27:37.928 course , until you say uh be more 27:37.928 --> 27:39.930 genuine . OK . Yeah . Yeah . Sure . 27:39.939 --> 27:41.939 Sure . Yeah . That's right . That's 27:41.939 --> 27:44.161 right . No , I think it's definitely an 27:44.161 --> 27:46.272 interesting tool and we're definitely 27:46.272 --> 27:48.495 going to see it be something we have to 27:48.495 --> 27:50.328 be mindful of not only for us as 27:50.328 --> 27:52.272 communicators , but I think on the 27:52.272 --> 27:54.495 other end , right ? Our adversaries are 27:54.495 --> 27:56.661 gonna be using A I tools more and more 27:56.661 --> 27:58.883 if they're not already to try to affect 27:58.883 --> 28:00.661 the information , right ? So we 28:00.661 --> 28:02.883 definitely need to be ready for that in 28:02.883 --> 28:05.050 terms of not only knowing what they're 28:05.050 --> 28:07.161 using but how to counteract it . So I 28:07.161 --> 28:09.328 wouldn't be the paio I am if I did not 28:09.328 --> 28:11.272 ask you if there was anything else 28:11.272 --> 28:13.328 you'd like to add before we , we say 28:13.328 --> 28:15.328 goodbye to you . Oh , thanks . That 28:15.328 --> 28:17.495 went , that went fast . I did , didn't 28:17.495 --> 28:20.239 I um yeah , I think there's , I think 28:20.250 --> 28:24.050 we should all take pause in um 28:24.170 --> 28:26.226 in what we do for a living . I think 28:26.226 --> 28:28.392 that being a public affairs officer is 28:28.392 --> 28:30.859 a very , very special thing . And , um , 28:31.319 --> 28:33.790 it's really important for what you do 28:33.800 --> 28:36.022 for your organization , the people in , 28:36.022 --> 28:38.189 in , in , in the world , our taxpayers 28:38.189 --> 28:40.560 moms and dads , they need to hear from 28:40.569 --> 28:42.458 us and they need to hear it in an 28:42.458 --> 28:45.910 accurate and , and well said way I'd 28:45.920 --> 28:48.959 say two months at info or 10 weeks at 28:48.989 --> 28:51.100 dim posts is not gonna prepare you to 28:51.100 --> 28:53.267 do that . So you have to study on your 28:53.267 --> 28:55.719 own . You have to um keep up with the 28:55.729 --> 28:58.369 industry , you have to like read and , 28:58.640 --> 29:00.890 and know about what's going on around 29:00.900 --> 29:03.430 you . And if you do that , this , this 29:03.439 --> 29:06.430 career field is , is going to be just 29:06.939 --> 29:09.500 massively rewarding and , and uh you're 29:09.510 --> 29:12.250 gonna get to places and go places that 29:12.260 --> 29:14.640 you never imagined uh doing . So I 29:14.650 --> 29:17.189 think I would leave our audience with 29:17.199 --> 29:20.099 that . I um also just wanna 29:20.109 --> 29:22.660 congratulate you getting out of the Air 29:22.670 --> 29:24.829 Force soon . You're retiring . Uh 29:25.130 --> 29:27.408 You've been doing this for a long time , 29:27.408 --> 29:29.910 which is a service to our community . 29:29.920 --> 29:32.430 Three years , probably 30 episodes or 29:32.439 --> 29:34.869 so . So , yeah . Congrats and thanks , 29:34.880 --> 29:36.602 thanks for what you do for our 29:36.602 --> 29:38.713 community . Really ? Well , it's been 29:38.713 --> 29:40.658 an honor to have this platform and 29:40.658 --> 29:42.436 ability to communicate with our 29:42.436 --> 29:44.436 community and , and really let them 29:44.436 --> 29:46.658 know what it is we're doing here at the 29:46.658 --> 29:48.713 schoolhouse and to try to accelerate 29:48.713 --> 29:50.769 the conversation on on some of these 29:50.769 --> 29:53.102 topics which I think are very important . 29:53.102 --> 29:53.074 Uh not only for the , the foundational 29:53.084 --> 29:55.140 folks , we're going through like the 29:55.140 --> 29:57.251 folks going through our qualification 29:57.251 --> 29:59.251 course , but really everyone in the 29:59.251 --> 30:01.417 career field , as well as those people 30:01.417 --> 30:01.094 who might be interested in coming into 30:01.104 --> 30:02.937 the career field or those on the 30:02.937 --> 30:04.771 outside , in the tertiary in the 30:04.771 --> 30:06.937 private sector who might be looking in 30:06.937 --> 30:08.937 and trying to learn and glean maybe 30:08.937 --> 30:11.104 best practices that the military doing 30:11.104 --> 30:12.937 that they can apply to their own 30:12.937 --> 30:15.104 organizations . So again , it's really 30:15.104 --> 30:17.271 been an honor to have this opportunity 30:17.271 --> 30:19.326 and I am , you know , really excited 30:19.326 --> 30:19.199 and hopeful for what this show will be 30:19.209 --> 30:21.479 like in the future . Post me whenever 30:21.489 --> 30:23.711 that might happen . Thank you , sir . I 30:23.711 --> 30:25.878 appreciate that . Uh Well , that's our 30:25.878 --> 30:28.099 show for this month pretty fast . It 30:28.109 --> 30:30.276 flew by , in my opinion , I could have 30:30.276 --> 30:32.165 probably spent another 30 minutes 30:32.165 --> 30:34.387 talking about all the kind of different 30:34.387 --> 30:36.498 topics that are going on in the world 30:36.498 --> 30:38.720 today . Uh But I do again , wanna thank 30:38.720 --> 30:40.831 you so much for taking time out to be 30:40.831 --> 30:40.199 here today , sir . I know you're very 30:40.209 --> 30:42.320 busy . So everything you've been able 30:42.320 --> 30:44.376 to give us in our audience , I think 30:44.376 --> 30:46.487 has been uh really awesome . So thank 30:46.487 --> 30:48.431 you for sharing your knowledge and 30:48.431 --> 30:48.150 thanks for having me . It's great . 30:48.510 --> 30:50.454 Thanks . Glad to hear that , sir . 30:50.454 --> 30:52.566 Thank you , sir . Uh I'd also like to 30:52.566 --> 30:54.677 thank all of you for tuning in to our 30:54.677 --> 30:56.732 program . I really appreciate , uh , 30:56.732 --> 30:58.788 your participation and attendance to 30:58.788 --> 31:00.899 our show . By the way , if you'd like 31:00.899 --> 31:02.899 to hear more from Colonel Butler as 31:02.899 --> 31:05.066 well as many other P A professionals , 31:05.066 --> 31:07.177 I highly recommend that you tune into 31:07.177 --> 31:09.121 the Dinho S Way podcast . It's our 31:09.121 --> 31:11.399 sister podcast over in , in Dinho , uh , 31:11.399 --> 31:13.454 Colonel Butler actually gave quite a 31:13.454 --> 31:15.343 great interview about information 31:15.343 --> 31:17.566 warfare on episode 15 of that program . 31:17.566 --> 31:19.621 So , go check it out and speaking of 31:19.621 --> 31:21.732 podcasts , if you prefer to listen to 31:21.732 --> 31:23.788 our show rather than watch it , uh , 31:23.788 --> 31:25.954 you can because it is a podcast . Uh , 31:25.954 --> 31:27.843 so just go on your pod Catcher of 31:27.843 --> 31:30.050 Choice and search for D Infos live and 31:30.109 --> 31:32.220 it'll pop up . So go ahead and like , 31:32.220 --> 31:34.387 comment , subscribe and all that great 31:34.387 --> 31:36.553 stuff . Uh , by the way , join us next 31:36.553 --> 31:38.387 month on November 20th at 2 p.m. 31:38.387 --> 31:40.553 Eastern , we'll be talking to Mrs Lulu 31:40.553 --> 31:42.720 Meserve about crisis communications in 31:42.720 --> 31:44.609 the video game industry . So that 31:44.609 --> 31:46.609 should be interesting . All right . 31:46.609 --> 31:48.553 Well , for everyone at the defense 31:48.553 --> 31:50.665 information school and the defense of 31:50.665 --> 31:52.609 media activity , I'm major David J 31:52.609 --> 31:54.942 Murphy and we'll see you all next month . 31:54.942 --> 31:53.540 Bye , everybody .