WEBVTT

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This is a hybrid hearing . We have some

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members participating remotely . So um

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I have to read this statement . Members

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who are joining remotely must be

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visible on screen for the purposes of

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identity verification , establishing

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and maintaining a quorum participating

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the proceeding and voting . Those

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members must continue to use the

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software platforms video function while

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in attendance unless they experience

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connectivity issues or other technical

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problems that render them unable to

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resuscitate participate on camera . If

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a member experiences technical

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difficulties they should contact the

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committee staff for assistance . Video

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of members participation will be

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broadcast in the room and via the

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television internet feeds Members

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participating remotely must seek

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recognition verbally and they are

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asking me if their microphones when

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they are not speaking members who are

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participating remotely are reminded to

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keep the software platforms video

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function on the entire time they attend

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the proceeding members may leave and

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rejoin the proceeding . If members

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depart for a short while for reasons

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other than joining a different

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proceeding , they should leave the

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video function on . If members will be

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absent for a significant period or

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depart to join different proceedings ,

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they should exit the software platform

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entirely and then we join it . If they

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return , members may use the software

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platforms , chat feature to communicate

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with staff regarding technical or

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logistical support issues only .

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Finally I have designated a committee

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staff member to if necessary recognized

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members microphones to cancel any

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inadvertent background noise that may

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disrupt the proceedings . So thank you

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for joining us . Um Today the full

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committee is hearing on engagement with

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allies and partners . We have two

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witnesses with us this morning . The

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honorable mara Karlin . Assistant

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Secretary of Defense for Strategy plans

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and capabilities from D O . D . And the

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honorable Jessica Lewis , who is

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Assistant Secretary of State for for

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Political , Military Affairs ,

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Department of State . Well , thank you

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very much . I appreciate you being here

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to some degree . The topic is self

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explanatory as well . Try not to uh go

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on too long in my opening statement

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except to say um that partners and

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Allies are absolutely crucial to

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everything that we're doing in the

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world . Certainly in this moment we

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understand that as well as we ever had

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um in in our efforts to stop Russia's

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unlawful invasion of Ukraine to make

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sure that Putin does not succeed in

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this . We could not possibly do it on

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our own clearly and obviously , and the

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stronger our partnerships are in the

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world , the better able we are to bring

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pressure against Russia and to support

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Ukraine in this effort . And this

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applies across the board to the global

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challenges that we face . And there has

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been a lot of talk in the last few

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years about how we're pivoting from one

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threat to another . You know , we have

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the discussion what is the greatest

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threat we face , let's , you know ,

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pick one and focus on it , china is the

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popular one to focus on . But I think

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on this committee we all recognize um

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that the threat list is is pretty clear

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china Russia , Iran north Korea and

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transnational terrorist threats . Um

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I'll give a prize by the way to someone

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anyone who comes up with the Pneumonic

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for that . So we can just sum it up in

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a quick little acronym . But that's it .

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And when you ask the question , okay ,

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which one of these threats worries you

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the most ? That depends on the day .

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Okay , There's no way we can say . Ok ,

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well , those two , there aren't really

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a big problem . Um they're all there

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and they all have the potential to rise

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to the top in any given moment . As

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powerful as we are , as a nation , as

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strong as our military and our economy

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are we could not possibly meet all of

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those threats on our own . The way to

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meet those threats is through allies

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and partnerships and through a rules

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based international order , which is

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the entire point of what we've been

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trying to set up since the end of World

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War Two . And the thing that right now

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Vladimir Putin both threatens most

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profoundly , but also is making it

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clear why it is so important for

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nations of the world to join in that

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effort . So to do that , we need to

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work on partnerships and and and we

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have been and I think the biden

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administration has done an excellent

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job in the year plus that they've been

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in office of reaching out to allies and

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trying to build those partnerships and

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then that comes in a variety of

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different forms . Um certainly we have ,

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you know re engaged with NATO worked

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more closely with europe to build up

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that partnership but also um in Asia we

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have the quad as it is now being called

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with India Japan Australia in the US

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working together together on a variety

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of different issues . Um the Aucas

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agreement which brought us closer with

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Australia and the United Kingdom was

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another way to partner on a number of

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different issues . We worked look for

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ways to work more closely with India .

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Partnership is crucial to us meeting

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those national security objectives and

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connected to that of course is building

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partner capacity . Um the better off

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our partners are to help us with

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national security threats um to help us

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with development assistance , the more

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hands we have to accomplish the goals

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and tasks that we're looking to

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accomplish . So I think this is an

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incredibly important hearing just in

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general , but particularly now as we

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are directly confronted with a threat

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that requires a global response that

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requires allies and partners to work

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together . Um It drives home why that

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issue is so important . So I look

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forward to the testimony and the

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questions and answers and with that I

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yield to ranking member Rogers for his

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opening state . Thank you Mr

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particularly now as we are directly

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confronted with a threat that requires

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a global response that requires allies

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and partners to work together . Um it

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drives home why that issue is so

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important . So I look forward to the

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testimony and the questions and answers .

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And with that I yield to ranking member

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Rogers for his opening state . Thank

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you Mr Chairman and I really appreciate

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you organizing this hearing today and I

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appreciate the witnesses being here and

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taking the time to prepare . I know it

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takes a lot of effort given Putin's war

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of choice now is an especially

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important time for us to focus on how

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we provide security assistance to our

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allies and partners . Security

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assistance . Cooperation and

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partnership programs run the full gamut

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from training to lethal aid . It

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enhances our diplomatic efforts to

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promote peace . It strengthens our

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global presence and it improves our

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ability to defend ourselves and our

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allies . These programs have proven

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successful in countering terrorism and

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positioning us to prevail in the great

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power competition in countries around

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the globe security system enables

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insistence enables us to effectively

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confront malign influence of china and

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Russia . There is no greater example of

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the potential of these programs than

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what we see in Ukraine . Unfortunately ,

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the assistance provided by Ukraine uh

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by to Ukraine by this administration

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hasn't reached its full potential .

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It's been too little too late . This

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crisis began unfolding back in october

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at that time . Center in half and I

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implored Secretary Austin to send anti

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air and anti ship capabilities to keep

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our hope was that the administration

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would take that threat from Putin

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seriously and publicly . Rarely of

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javelins , harpoons and stingers as

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deterrents for months . Ukrainians

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pleaded with us to send them systems

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these systems , but the White House

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chose not to act . They were more

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concerned about provoking Putin than

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defending democracy in Ukraine . It

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took until january of this year for the

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first shipments to arrive in Ukraine .

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And according to public press reports ,

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it was only a couple of days ago that

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the administration finally agreed to

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send stingers after Germany , Finland

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and the Baltics . As I said , it's been

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too little too late . We're seeing the

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horror of Putin's war play out in front

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of us . My colleagues and I sounded the

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alarm that Ukraine needed more lethal

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aid . Months ago , we sponsored

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legislation to provide that aid so I

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employ the speaker to bring the net act

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up for a vote as soon as possible with

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Ukraine under attack . It is now more

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important than ever to reinforce our

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NATO allies , especially those on the

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Eastern front . Romania Poland and the

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Baltic states need advanced integrated

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air defense assets , missile systems

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like the M . R . S . And the A . T . A .

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CMS . And enhanced permanent U . S .

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Troop presence . And they needed

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yesterday china is acting now is

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watching now as how we respond to this

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crisis now is not the time for

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equivocation . This administration

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needs to stand up to Putin the security

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of our nation and our allies are at

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stake . Thank you again for our

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witnesses for joining us this morning

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and I look forward to your testimony .

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Mr Chairman . I ask unanimous consent

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to enter into the record a statement

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from ranking member of Mccall . With

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that I yield back hearing no objection

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objection . So ordered . Uh Mr Carlin ,

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you are recognized chairman smith ,

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ranking member Rogers and distinguished

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members of the committee . Thank you

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for the opportunity to testify before

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you today . I respectively submit my

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written statement for the record and

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will provide brief opening remarks . I

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appreciate the invitation to testify

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before you today on the Department of

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Defense's approach to engagement with

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our allies and our partners through

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security cooperation . The United

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States is at a pivotal moment with our

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allies and partners in meeting the

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challenges of today and tomorrow .

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Together we face unprecedented

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challenges to our security including

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the people's republic of China's global

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ambitions to rival the United States

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and Russian aggression that threatens

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the territorial integrity of europe

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today . In Ukraine all the while we

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battle historic transnational threats

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like climate change and a global

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pandemic . One of the most important

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ways that we will meet these challenges

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is by renewing a U . S . Strategic

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advantage are unmatched network of

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allies and partners . Security

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cooperation is an important tool that

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helps key allies and partners

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strengthen their defense and enhances

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our ability to rely on one another in a

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time of need . The forthcoming national

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defense strategy will emphasize how the

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department will strengthen these

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alliances and partnerships to advance

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national security through integrated

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deterrence . As secretary , Austin has

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underscored integrated deterrence is

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working across domains and the spectrum

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of conflict and it closely with the

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rest of the government and our allies

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and partners on the most critical

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security challenges . The Department of

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Defense has learned from large scale

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assistance programs that for lasting

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impact a comprehensive engagement plan

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means more than training and equipping .

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We aim to help partners with not only

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specific capabilities but also with

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institutional integrity and an ability

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to promote our shared values notably

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the promotion and protection of human

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rights and good governance and

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legitimacy of the security sector .

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Resilient partnerships thrive when

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values and deeds align Security

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cooperation aims to uphold that

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approach to be sure . The degree of

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partnership should not be measured by

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the quantity of security cooperation

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programs but rather by their quality

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including transparency and

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effectiveness of security cooperation

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and assistance . A key aspect of the

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success of the security cooperation

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enterprise is collaboration to ensure

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the policy and strategic alignment of

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security cooperation that includes the

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Department of Defense and the

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Department of State , as demonstrated

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by today's hearing internal to the

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Department of Defense . We're

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tightening our alignment as well . We

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recently brought the Defense Security

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Cooperation Agency under the umbrella

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of the Assistant Secretary for Strategy

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Plans and capabilities in the Office of

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the Secretary of Defense for Policy to

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facilitate better collaboration and

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coordination within the Department of

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Defense and with our external partners .

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We also formed a new office for global

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partnerships which deliberately

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integrates humanitarian assistance ,

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disaster relief and human rights with

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the existing processes related to

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security cooperation . We are

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emphasizing the centrality of these

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areas of defense cooperation in a way

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that benefits benefits allies and

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partners in need . Success requires

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teamwork and I can assure you that our

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entire team is focused on embracing it .

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The department's focus on security

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cooperation has evolved over time and

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it has greatly benefited from

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congressional reforms . Five years ago

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Congress enacted unprecedented

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legislation empowering the department

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to support allies and partners through

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a consolidated range of title 10 U . S .

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Code . Security cooperation authorities

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designed to advance us interests and

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with full coordination of the

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Department of State . In doing so . The

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message was clear . Security

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cooperation should be deliberate and

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holistic . It should evolve based on

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consistent learning and reflect the

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values of the United States stands for

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today . Our cooperation with allies and

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Partners includes military to military

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engagements , capacity building ,

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education and training activities ,

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humanitarian assistance activities and

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robust exercises with key partners .

12:34.640 --> 12:36.696
While the department has implemented

12:36.696 --> 12:38.529
these reforms through meaningful

12:38.529 --> 12:40.696
improvements to security cooperation ,

12:40.696 --> 12:42.751
more remains to be done to seize the

12:42.751 --> 12:44.918
opportunity for further change . We're

12:44.918 --> 12:46.751
focusing on three priority areas

12:46.751 --> 12:49.100
prioritizing who and what we invest in

12:49.110 --> 12:51.620
focusing on sustainable impact and

12:51.620 --> 12:54.090
adopting a holistic integrated approach

12:54.100 --> 12:56.267
to how we execute security cooperation

12:56.267 --> 12:58.620
programs . I began by sharing with you

12:58.620 --> 13:00.676
how the U . S . Network of alliances

13:00.676 --> 13:02.453
and partnerships is a strategic

13:02.453 --> 13:04.787
advantage that competitors cannot match .

13:04.787 --> 13:06.564
I conclude by sharing that this

13:06.564 --> 13:08.620
advantage is not a given it requires

13:08.620 --> 13:10.620
active involvement by the entire US

13:10.620 --> 13:12.453
government listening to partners

13:12.453 --> 13:14.398
concerns and contexts and taking a

13:14.398 --> 13:16.620
thoughtful and deliberate approach to

13:16.620 --> 13:18.842
how we employ our resources to meet our

13:18.842 --> 13:20.842
priorities . This is facilitated by

13:20.842 --> 13:22.953
good strategy , good policy and close

13:22.953 --> 13:24.953
partnership among the Department of

13:24.953 --> 13:27.064
Defense , the Department of State and

13:27.064 --> 13:29.287
Congress . I appreciate your leadership

13:29.287 --> 13:31.453
on this critical issue and I thank you

13:31.453 --> 13:33.676
for the opportunity to share our vision

13:33.676 --> 13:35.898
for engagement with allies and partners

13:35.898 --> 13:37.953
through security cooperation . Thank

13:37.953 --> 13:41.180
you . Thank you Miss Lewis . Good

13:41.180 --> 13:43.920
morning . Chairman smith ranking member

13:43.920 --> 13:46.031
Rogers , Distinguished members of the

13:46.031 --> 13:48.031
committee . I am honored to be here

13:48.031 --> 13:50.031
today . Um , I'm gonna give my oral

13:50.031 --> 13:52.031
statement and asked that my written

13:52.031 --> 13:54.253
statement be submitted for the record .

13:56.240 --> 13:58.296
I was just going to tell you to pull

13:58.296 --> 14:00.407
the microphone a little bit closer to

14:00.407 --> 14:02.518
you with my microphone off . So um it

14:02.518 --> 14:02.100
is kind of Yeah , that's great . Thanks .

14:03.540 --> 14:05.596
I'm here to speak with you about the

14:05.596 --> 14:07.429
importance and value of security

14:07.429 --> 14:10.040
cooperation and security assistance and

14:10.040 --> 14:12.260
the vital role these functions play as

14:12.260 --> 14:14.400
tools of foreign policy in our

14:14.400 --> 14:16.700
relationships with partners and allies .

14:16.720 --> 14:18.680
I sit before you to discuss these

14:18.680 --> 14:20.902
matters at a time when that proposition

14:20.902 --> 14:23.280
is being tested and displayed as at a

14:23.280 --> 14:25.230
few points in history as the bombs

14:25.230 --> 14:27.063
rained down on the hospitals and

14:27.063 --> 14:29.119
schools of Kiev as the Russian tanks

14:29.119 --> 14:30.730
rolled through the Ukrainian

14:30.730 --> 14:32.952
countryside as we see before our eyes ,

14:32.952 --> 14:34.786
the sites of war in the european

14:34.786 --> 14:36.897
theater that we had imagined had been

14:36.897 --> 14:39.008
retired to history . I can say that I

14:39.008 --> 14:40.952
am proud of the support the United

14:40.952 --> 14:43.063
States have provided to Ukraine in an

14:43.063 --> 14:45.286
advance of their time of need and proud

14:45.286 --> 14:47.119
of the remarkable courage of the

14:47.119 --> 14:48.841
Ukrainian armed forces and the

14:48.841 --> 14:51.380
Ukrainian people as they wield our

14:51.380 --> 14:53.910
assistance to push back on Russia's

14:53.920 --> 14:56.750
unforgiveable assault . And our support

14:56.750 --> 14:58.917
to Ukraine demonstrates the wider rays

14:58.917 --> 15:01.083
of tools that state and the Department

15:01.083 --> 15:02.972
of Defense can bring to a partner

15:02.972 --> 15:05.330
security sector . Since assuming office

15:05.330 --> 15:07.497
last january , this administration has

15:07.497 --> 15:09.960
provided over $1 billion to Ukraine's

15:09.970 --> 15:11.890
defensive capabilities including

15:11.890 --> 15:14.010
through foreign military financing ,

15:14.230 --> 15:15.952
the D O . D , Ukraine Security

15:15.952 --> 15:18.174
Assistance Initiative and other program

15:18.174 --> 15:20.286
lines through the multinational Joint

15:20.286 --> 15:22.397
Commission . We work with Ukraine and

15:22.397 --> 15:24.174
our allies to identify military

15:24.174 --> 15:26.341
requirements and match funding streams

15:26.341 --> 15:25.840
to support the needed defensive

15:25.840 --> 15:28.030
capabilities ranging from radars to

15:28.030 --> 15:30.141
javelins . Through the excess defense

15:30.141 --> 15:32.141
articles program we've delivered to

15:32.141 --> 15:34.197
Ukraine armed Coast Guard cutters to

15:34.197 --> 15:35.863
create asymmetric mary trying

15:35.863 --> 15:37.697
capability in the Black Sea . In

15:37.697 --> 15:39.919
addition , through our programs such as

15:39.919 --> 15:39.600
the International Military education

15:39.600 --> 15:41.433
and Training Authority , we have

15:41.433 --> 15:43.656
supported the development of a cadre of

15:43.656 --> 15:45.822
professional and western looking , mid

15:45.822 --> 15:48.044
and senior level Ukrainian officers and

15:48.044 --> 15:50.044
through a series of exercises . The

15:50.044 --> 15:52.267
Defense Department has strengthened the

15:52.267 --> 15:54.211
interoperability of our forces and

15:54.211 --> 15:56.156
Ukraine's tactical and operational

15:56.156 --> 15:58.211
capabilities . Then as a threat from

15:58.211 --> 16:00.211
Russia sharpened , we have used the

16:00.211 --> 16:02.156
presidential drawdown authority an

16:02.156 --> 16:04.322
unprecedented three times in the space

16:04.322 --> 16:06.044
of six months , including this

16:06.044 --> 16:08.267
weekend's $350 million dollar package ,

16:08.267 --> 16:10.156
the largest presidential drawdown

16:10.156 --> 16:12.267
package in U . S . History to provide

16:12.267 --> 16:14.433
urgently needed ammunition , javelin ,

16:14.433 --> 16:16.600
anti tank missiles and the stinger man

16:16.600 --> 16:18.933
portable air defense systems to Ukraine .

16:18.933 --> 16:20.822
At the same time , we continue to

16:20.822 --> 16:22.711
expeditiously process and approve

16:22.711 --> 16:24.767
requests for deliveries of US origin

16:24.767 --> 16:26.600
material , military equipment to

16:26.600 --> 16:28.767
Ukraine from our Allies and Partners ,

16:28.767 --> 16:28.690
which is the theme of this hearing

16:28.730 --> 16:30.720
under our third party transfer

16:30.730 --> 16:33.310
authority as the Assistant Secretary

16:33.310 --> 16:35.900
for Political Military Affairs or PM .

16:35.940 --> 16:38.162
The mission this mission is at the core

16:38.162 --> 16:40.273
of my responsibilities , PM is on the

16:40.273 --> 16:42.384
front lines of this effort that links

16:42.384 --> 16:44.662
diplomacy and defense to bolster U . S .

16:44.662 --> 16:46.551
National Security . My team works

16:46.551 --> 16:48.718
closely with the Department of Defense

16:48.718 --> 16:50.829
with Congress and the U . S . Defense

16:50.829 --> 16:52.996
Industry to deliver tools and training

16:52.996 --> 16:54.940
that supports our Foreign policy ,

16:54.940 --> 16:56.940
strengthens our allies and partners

16:56.940 --> 16:59.107
abilities to provide for their defense

16:59.107 --> 17:01.107
and contributes meaningfully to the

17:01.107 --> 17:02.718
stability of the rules based

17:02.718 --> 17:04.884
international order . Day to day . The

17:04.884 --> 17:06.940
Bureau of Political Military Affairs

17:06.940 --> 17:08.996
oversees approximately $7 billion in

17:08.996 --> 17:10.996
Security sector assistance programs

17:10.996 --> 17:13.218
annually which accounts for roughly 20%

17:13.218 --> 17:15.273
of the Department of State and USA .

17:15.273 --> 17:17.218
Its total annual assistance . This

17:17.218 --> 17:19.051
insists this assistance includes

17:19.051 --> 17:20.773
foreign military financing and

17:20.773 --> 17:22.884
appropriated grant assistance program

17:22.884 --> 17:22.190
through which partners are able to

17:22.190 --> 17:24.610
procure US origin defense capabilities

17:24.620 --> 17:26.650
almost entirely by buying into the

17:26.650 --> 17:28.817
Defense Department procurement process

17:28.817 --> 17:30.539
and international military and

17:30.539 --> 17:32.560
education and training that enables

17:32.560 --> 17:34.560
foreign military personnel to study

17:34.560 --> 17:36.780
beside their U . S . Counterparts . In

17:36.780 --> 17:39.002
addition , the bureau concurs on behalf

17:39.002 --> 17:41.224
of the Secretary of State With multiple

17:41.224 --> 17:42.947
department of defense security

17:42.947 --> 17:44.780
cooperation authorities totaling

17:44.780 --> 17:46.613
approximately $9 billion dollars

17:46.613 --> 17:48.669
annually as required by law . And we

17:48.669 --> 17:50.950
share this burden of security challenge

17:50.960 --> 17:52.738
of security with our allies and

17:52.738 --> 17:54.682
partners . And we work together to

17:54.682 --> 17:57.016
address the challenges around the world .

17:57.016 --> 17:59.182
These tools Mr chairman apply not only

17:59.182 --> 18:01.349
in times of crisis but help us shape a

18:01.349 --> 18:03.516
world that is less susceptible to such

18:03.516 --> 18:05.930
threats as we turn as well to the

18:05.930 --> 18:08.300
pacing threat from the PRC and its

18:08.300 --> 18:11.280
model of autocracy poses poses to the

18:11.280 --> 18:13.224
rules based order . We can look to

18:13.224 --> 18:15.113
security cooperation and security

18:15.113 --> 18:17.058
assistance as a key element of our

18:17.058 --> 18:19.224
response . For decades . For example ,

18:19.224 --> 18:21.058
we have worked to strengthen our

18:21.058 --> 18:23.113
security cooperation with key allies

18:23.113 --> 18:25.113
such as Japan and South Korea while

18:25.113 --> 18:26.836
creating new partnerships with

18:26.836 --> 18:26.750
countries like Vietnam and while

18:26.750 --> 18:29.010
working hand in glove with Taiwan to

18:29.010 --> 18:31.177
strengthen that Brave island's defense

18:31.177 --> 18:32.621
and deterrence . And this

18:32.621 --> 18:34.677
administration intends to deepen and

18:34.677 --> 18:36.788
expand that cooperation in the months

18:36.788 --> 18:38.732
and years ahead . Over the years ,

18:38.732 --> 18:40.954
commitments like these have created new

18:40.954 --> 18:43.010
opportunities for interoperability ,

18:43.010 --> 18:45.310
new allies to deter aggressive behavior

18:45.320 --> 18:47.376
and new partners to help meet global

18:47.376 --> 18:49.376
challenges . Real partnership means

18:49.376 --> 18:51.542
bearing burdens together with everyone

18:51.542 --> 18:53.950
doing their part because no single

18:53.950 --> 18:56.300
nation can afford to carry that weight

18:56.310 --> 18:58.130
alone . So I thank you for the

18:58.130 --> 19:00.463
opportunity to testify before you today .

19:00.463 --> 19:02.519
The Department of State would not be

19:02.519 --> 19:04.630
able to achieve the level of security

19:04.630 --> 19:06.630
cooperation we have without our key

19:06.630 --> 19:08.797
partners , the Department of Defense ,

19:08.797 --> 19:10.963
the Interagency , our foreign partners

19:10.963 --> 19:13.130
and you , the United States Congress .

19:13.130 --> 19:15.074
I look forward to your questions .

19:15.074 --> 19:17.297
Thank you very very much . Dr Karlan as

19:17.297 --> 19:19.519
you mentioned in your remarks . And one

19:19.519 --> 19:21.630
of the big advantages that we have in

19:21.630 --> 19:23.741
terms of building alliances , what we

19:23.741 --> 19:25.741
have to offer the world is security

19:25.741 --> 19:27.963
assistance . Um we're better at it than

19:27.963 --> 19:29.908
than most people who are any other

19:29.908 --> 19:29.870
country that could offer it both in

19:29.870 --> 19:32.092
terms of the quality of the equipment ,

19:32.092 --> 19:34.203
the training we provide and we have a

19:34.203 --> 19:36.426
number of programs as you know , that ,

19:36.426 --> 19:38.592
you know , enabled defense cooperation

19:38.592 --> 19:40.648
and providing defense equipment . At

19:40.648 --> 19:42.592
the same time , there's increasing

19:42.592 --> 19:44.759
pressure um depending on the countries

19:44.759 --> 19:46.481
that were helping , you know ,

19:46.481 --> 19:48.648
throughout africa , you know , there's

19:48.648 --> 19:50.759
been , you know , people we've helped

19:50.759 --> 19:50.710
to have then led coups against the

19:50.710 --> 19:52.877
government . Um certainly right now in

19:52.877 --> 19:54.932
the Middle East there's a particular

19:54.932 --> 19:57.099
focus on , you know , Saudi Arabia and

19:57.099 --> 19:57.020
the U . I . E . Where we've built

19:57.020 --> 19:59.020
partnerships with them , the war in

19:59.020 --> 20:00.687
Yemen has put pressure on our

20:00.687 --> 20:02.853
government to back off and not provide

20:02.853 --> 20:04.631
that security assistance in the

20:04.631 --> 20:06.853
Philippines . We've had that problem as

20:06.853 --> 20:09.076
well . Now we attempt to balance that .

20:09.076 --> 20:11.353
We we have the leahy law that requires ,

20:11.353 --> 20:13.409
you know , respecting human rights .

20:13.409 --> 20:15.631
And I'm just wondering how do we strike

20:15.631 --> 20:17.631
that balance ? And I'm particularly

20:17.631 --> 20:19.631
focused on the U . S . A . This the

20:19.631 --> 20:21.576
situation in Yemen is is very very

20:21.576 --> 20:23.920
complex . Um But at at a minimum at

20:23.920 --> 20:26.700
this point we have slow walked . Um

20:26.710 --> 20:29.740
Some of our um weapons sales were

20:29.740 --> 20:31.851
supposed to go to U . A . E . Because

20:31.851 --> 20:34.020
of those concerns . Um How do you see

20:34.020 --> 20:36.470
us balancing that ? Um because what I'm

20:36.470 --> 20:38.303
fearful of right now is a lot of

20:38.303 --> 20:40.359
countries and the U . A . E . Is a ,

20:40.359 --> 20:42.414
you know , top of that list , we saw

20:42.414 --> 20:42.240
that they were one of the countries

20:42.240 --> 20:44.710
that abstained um in the vote against

20:44.710 --> 20:47.170
Russia . Um they're hedging their bets

20:47.500 --> 20:49.667
and if it doesn't come from us they're

20:49.667 --> 20:51.740
going to go to Russia and china . Um

20:51.750 --> 20:54.040
how do we avoid losing those folks

20:54.040 --> 20:56.370
while we're concerned about what what

20:56.380 --> 20:58.380
else they might be doing , concerns

20:58.380 --> 21:00.380
about human rights , concerns about

21:00.380 --> 21:02.602
conflict in the region . You know , how

21:02.602 --> 21:04.324
how does the D . O . D look at

21:04.324 --> 21:06.436
balancing those concerns ? And I'd be

21:06.436 --> 21:06.260
interested in Miss Lewis's comments

21:06.260 --> 21:09.000
about that as well . Thank you very

21:09.000 --> 21:11.333
much , Chairman in your opening remarks ,

21:11.333 --> 21:13.389
you had talked about how we can't do

21:13.389 --> 21:15.389
this on our own and I think that is

21:15.389 --> 21:17.500
spot on . Indeed , we shouldn't do it

21:17.500 --> 21:19.722
on our own . It works so much better as

21:19.722 --> 21:22.056
we're seeing in Ukraine of course today ,

21:22.056 --> 21:24.222
when we have knit together a cohort of

21:24.222 --> 21:26.278
countries to really ensure effective

21:26.278 --> 21:28.500
security cooperation . What's different

21:28.500 --> 21:30.444
about when the United States gives

21:30.444 --> 21:32.667
security cooperation is , you know , is

21:32.667 --> 21:34.778
that we have some real standards . We

21:34.778 --> 21:36.778
don't support corruption , we don't

21:36.778 --> 21:38.889
support transactional relationships .

21:38.889 --> 21:41.111
What we try to do is emphasize the rule

21:41.111 --> 21:42.889
of law . Um we try to emphasize

21:42.889 --> 21:45.180
humanity , human rights , all in line

21:45.180 --> 21:47.291
with our values because at the end of

21:47.291 --> 21:49.458
the day frankly that makes military is

21:49.458 --> 21:51.680
more effective and that's in all of our

21:51.680 --> 21:53.847
interests . So as we work closely with

21:53.847 --> 21:56.069
the U . A . E . In particular , we work

21:56.069 --> 21:58.069
with them on their on on protecting

21:58.069 --> 21:59.958
their territory , defending their

21:59.958 --> 22:02.180
territory . But as with all countries ,

22:02.180 --> 22:04.069
it's important that we have frank

22:04.069 --> 22:06.291
conversations about how in what ways we

22:06.291 --> 22:08.347
think they can be more effective and

22:08.347 --> 22:10.569
what they're trying to do . Thank you .

22:10.569 --> 22:13.120
Thank you . Thank you . First of all ,

22:13.120 --> 22:15.520
I'd like to concur with dr Carlin on

22:15.520 --> 22:17.630
the importance of providing our

22:17.630 --> 22:19.686
security assistance and working very

22:19.686 --> 22:21.741
closely together with our allies and

22:21.741 --> 22:23.970
partners around the world . Um and as

22:23.970 --> 22:26.560
you mentioned , um we have to really

22:26.570 --> 22:29.810
continue to balance those concerns with

22:29.810 --> 22:32.032
our deep and strong relationships as we

22:32.032 --> 22:35.520
work with countries also on you a

22:35.520 --> 22:38.230
specifically we remain committed to

22:38.240 --> 22:40.350
providing the f 30 five's and the MQ

22:40.350 --> 22:42.800
nine's we are having regular

22:42.800 --> 22:44.967
discussions with the U . A . On the if

22:44.967 --> 22:47.950
I may we remain committed to that . Yes .

22:48.340 --> 22:50.750
Doesn't seem to ever happen . And

22:50.750 --> 22:53.490
they're starting to notice we are

22:53.500 --> 22:55.556
talking to them on a regular basis .

22:55.556 --> 22:57.722
They know that we are committed um and

22:57.722 --> 22:59.833
we are making sure that they have all

22:59.833 --> 23:01.889
of the information they need to move

23:01.889 --> 23:04.111
forward with those and at the same time

23:04.111 --> 23:05.960
making sure that they are also

23:05.960 --> 23:07.970
complying with the commitments that

23:07.970 --> 23:10.192
they made as part of that process . And

23:10.192 --> 23:12.303
we're continuing that discussion with

23:12.303 --> 23:14.526
them . I would also note and I think dr

23:14.526 --> 23:16.692
Carlin mentioned this that the U . A .

23:16.692 --> 23:18.692
E . Is really facing um uh enhanced

23:18.692 --> 23:21.490
threats from the Houthis inside Yemen .

23:21.500 --> 23:23.860
Um And we have also remained committed

23:23.870 --> 23:27.350
to partnering with them as they manage

23:27.350 --> 23:29.350
that problem . And that challenge .

23:29.640 --> 23:32.440
Thank you . And one last question and

23:32.450 --> 23:34.561
the cooperation between Department of

23:34.561 --> 23:36.672
Defense , the Department of State and

23:36.672 --> 23:38.894
also Development Assistance . Um If you

23:38.894 --> 23:41.061
could talk a little bit about how well

23:41.061 --> 23:43.172
you work together , I mean this was a

23:43.172 --> 23:45.394
big focus , you know , certainly coming

23:45.394 --> 23:47.561
out of Iraq and Afghanistan but in the

23:47.561 --> 23:49.672
counterterrorism effort across Africa

23:49.672 --> 23:51.728
across Asia and the Middle East . Um

23:51.728 --> 23:53.617
You know , it's not just security

23:53.617 --> 23:55.672
assistance that we provide , we also

23:55.672 --> 23:55.500
want to make sure that we're providing

23:55.500 --> 23:57.611
development assistance and to do that

23:57.611 --> 23:59.833
we need certainly state and D . O . D .

23:59.833 --> 24:01.833
Working together . But you know , a

24:01.833 --> 24:01.320
number of other agencies , you

24:01.320 --> 24:03.098
mentioned the rule of law being

24:03.098 --> 24:05.042
important Department of Justice is

24:05.042 --> 24:07.098
involved in that . Um Certainly when

24:07.098 --> 24:08.987
we're talking about health care ,

24:08.987 --> 24:11.320
that's where you get into U . S . A . I .

24:11.320 --> 24:13.209
D . Um How well do you think that

24:13.209 --> 24:15.153
partnership is working the sort of

24:15.153 --> 24:17.376
intergovernmental approach here ? Um to

24:17.376 --> 24:20.910
go forward . Thank you chairman .

24:20.920 --> 24:24.130
I think the level of cooperation is

24:24.130 --> 24:26.241
really unprecedented and for a lot of

24:26.241 --> 24:28.390
that I have to thank Congress because

24:28.390 --> 24:30.612
the 2017 National Defense Authorization

24:30.612 --> 24:32.668
Act , one of the big priorities is I

24:32.668 --> 24:34.834
think we also on it was to ensure that

24:34.834 --> 24:37.168
we were talking as as often as possible .

24:37.240 --> 24:39.240
Talking from the earliest stages of

24:39.240 --> 24:41.351
which countries and programs would be

24:41.351 --> 24:43.629
prioritized . How would we design them ?

24:43.629 --> 24:45.851
How would we look at execution and then

24:45.851 --> 24:48.073
how would we do assessment , monitoring

24:48.073 --> 24:50.073
and evaluation and that goes beyond

24:50.073 --> 24:51.962
kind of more traditional security

24:51.962 --> 24:53.962
cooperations to involve things like

24:53.962 --> 24:56.018
humanitarian assistance and disaster

24:56.018 --> 24:58.129
relief ? Uh It really is a close knit

24:58.129 --> 25:00.270
partnership that involves extremely

25:00.270 --> 25:02.270
regular dialogues which I think has

25:02.270 --> 25:04.630
resulted in a more healthy and

25:04.630 --> 25:06.630
productive approach to this issue .

25:08.640 --> 25:11.180
May I just add that ? I think as we

25:11.180 --> 25:13.430
look at our foreign policy , the

25:13.440 --> 25:15.551
foreign policy of the United States ,

25:15.551 --> 25:17.920
we need diplomacy , we need development

25:17.930 --> 25:20.430
um and obviously we need to have our

25:20.430 --> 25:22.597
security assistance deeply involved as

25:22.597 --> 25:25.210
well . Um and I have to say , you know ,

25:25.210 --> 25:27.432
having been here for four months that I

25:27.432 --> 25:29.730
am truly impressed with the deep

25:29.730 --> 25:32.090
cooperation at every level from the

25:32.090 --> 25:34.146
Action Officer all the way up to the

25:34.146 --> 25:36.368
most senior levels of the department as

25:36.368 --> 25:38.510
well as with US Aid as we look at how

25:38.510 --> 25:40.732
to counter the threats that the U . S .

25:40.732 --> 25:42.788
Faces . But also as you point out if

25:42.788 --> 25:44.970
we're going to solve these problems ,

25:44.980 --> 25:47.270
it's we have to work hand in glove .

25:47.530 --> 25:49.641
One of the things I'm very focused on

25:49.641 --> 25:52.360
is security sector governance . Um and

25:52.360 --> 25:54.471
part of that is because of the issues

25:54.471 --> 25:56.638
that you have just raised , we need to

25:56.638 --> 25:58.693
make sure that ministries of defense

25:58.693 --> 26:00.916
know how to procure in ways that combat

26:00.916 --> 26:02.860
corruption . We need to be talking

26:02.860 --> 26:04.971
about our american values in terms of

26:04.971 --> 26:07.027
democracy , human rights , so and we

26:07.027 --> 26:09.082
have to work hand in glove on all of

26:09.082 --> 26:11.720
those programs with um US aid um and

26:11.720 --> 26:13.887
other pieces of the State Department .

26:13.887 --> 26:15.776
Thank you very much appreciate Mr

26:15.776 --> 26:17.840
Rogers . Thank you Mr Chairman . I

26:17.840 --> 26:20.260
appreciate the opportunity . I am the

26:20.270 --> 26:24.220
uglier version of Mr Rogers , so Mr

26:24.220 --> 26:26.442
Whitman , that's okay . Mr Chairman , I

26:26.442 --> 26:29.130
appreciate that . MS Lewis Dr Karlan ,

26:29.130 --> 26:31.186
thank you so much for for joining us

26:31.186 --> 26:34.310
today . I want to go directly to what I

26:34.310 --> 26:37.200
see as a divergence in what's happening

26:37.640 --> 26:40.790
in the world as it relates to larger

26:40.790 --> 26:43.180
spheres of influence the United States

26:43.450 --> 26:45.580
and China . Specifically as we've

26:45.580 --> 26:48.230
watched China worked to expand their

26:48.230 --> 26:51.480
spheres of influence . What we see is a

26:51.480 --> 26:53.580
very transactional effort that they

26:53.590 --> 26:57.130
take . They go to countries they engage

26:57.130 --> 26:59.710
them , they build a road for them ,

26:59.710 --> 27:01.821
They build a building and in exchange

27:01.821 --> 27:03.960
for that either have an agreement for

27:04.010 --> 27:05.950
certain resources in the country

27:05.960 --> 27:08.220
promising economic development and that

27:08.220 --> 27:10.950
never quite occurs . We see chinese

27:10.950 --> 27:13.061
nationals come in and do the work all

27:13.061 --> 27:15.283
these things and the country afterwards

27:15.283 --> 27:17.510
goes well where's where's the benefit

27:17.510 --> 27:20.170
to this country now for years to U . S .

27:20.180 --> 27:23.180
A . I . D . We did many of the same

27:23.190 --> 27:25.134
intended things but in a much much

27:25.134 --> 27:27.190
different way The Chinese with their

27:27.190 --> 27:29.190
one belt one road initiative to are

27:29.190 --> 27:31.301
looking to tie countries together but

27:31.301 --> 27:33.870
also to isolate . I think there's a

27:33.870 --> 27:36.037
great opportunity there for us in many

27:36.037 --> 27:39.230
areas of the world to build or

27:39.230 --> 27:42.560
redevelop relationships especially in

27:43.040 --> 27:46.100
countering the chinese effort and how

27:46.100 --> 27:49.810
they do things through opportunism and

27:49.810 --> 27:51.980
through exploitive means with these

27:51.980 --> 27:53.980
other countries . And I think those

27:53.980 --> 27:56.147
countries are start starting to see it

27:56.147 --> 27:58.202
but in many instances we haven't had

27:58.202 --> 28:00.313
the best record in what we've done to

28:00.313 --> 28:02.424
develop relationships with with other

28:02.424 --> 28:04.536
countries . So my question is this is

28:04.536 --> 28:06.647
what do we do to fold ? What do we do

28:06.647 --> 28:08.813
to counter the chinese efforts as they

28:08.813 --> 28:11.036
look to establish these relationships ?

28:11.036 --> 28:13.258
I argue their transactional and what do

28:13.258 --> 28:14.813
we do to create longer term

28:14.813 --> 28:16.990
relationships ? And what do we do it ?

28:16.990 --> 28:19.101
And how do we do it in areas that are

28:19.101 --> 28:21.101
incredibly important like Southeast

28:21.101 --> 28:23.400
asia like Indonesia , Micronesia ,

28:23.400 --> 28:26.570
Malaysia those areas that we know are

28:26.580 --> 28:28.636
unfortunately I think moving towards

28:28.636 --> 28:30.802
the influence of china because they're

28:30.802 --> 28:32.524
watching how things things are

28:32.524 --> 28:35.270
unfolding . And do you think it begins

28:35.270 --> 28:37.690
with developing deeper economic

28:37.690 --> 28:39.801
relationships that would then lead to

28:39.801 --> 28:43.770
strategic relationships ? Thank

28:43.770 --> 28:47.190
you very much . I think uh ranking

28:47.190 --> 28:49.246
member that you are spot on when you

28:49.246 --> 28:51.079
were talking about these uh this

28:51.079 --> 28:53.301
transactional approach that the chinese

28:53.301 --> 28:55.357
take and I would add to that that is

28:55.357 --> 28:57.523
fomenting dependencies . It encourages

28:57.523 --> 28:59.246
corruption , it undermines the

28:59.246 --> 29:02.100
institutions um and the rule of law .

29:02.110 --> 29:04.166
And and it's as you know , so well ,

29:04.166 --> 29:06.620
it's just a completely diametrically a

29:06.620 --> 29:09.560
pro opposed approach to what we do and

29:09.560 --> 29:11.782
frankly to what's good for that country

29:11.782 --> 29:13.893
and good for that country's people uh

29:13.893 --> 29:16.430
and so regarding your first question on

29:16.440 --> 29:18.607
on kind of how we counter it . I think

29:18.607 --> 29:20.329
it's twofold one is to shine a

29:20.329 --> 29:22.273
spotlight , make sure that all the

29:22.273 --> 29:24.218
countries see what's happening and

29:24.218 --> 29:26.510
understand what's going on and why

29:26.510 --> 29:28.788
that's not in their long term interest .

29:28.788 --> 29:30.843
The second thing I would say is help

29:30.843 --> 29:32.677
them understand why our model is

29:32.677 --> 29:34.288
different , why our model of

29:34.288 --> 29:36.288
strengthening their institutions uh

29:36.288 --> 29:38.343
institutional capacity building , um

29:38.343 --> 29:40.343
strengthening advisers within their

29:40.343 --> 29:42.566
Ministry of Defense , showing them that

29:42.566 --> 29:44.732
that alternative model , ensuring that

29:44.732 --> 29:46.843
they can sustain the material we give

29:46.843 --> 29:49.121
them and it doesn't break down quickly .

29:49.121 --> 29:51.343
So that's how I would answer your first

29:51.343 --> 29:51.170
question on your second question in the

29:51.170 --> 29:53.260
long longer term . And I'll defer to

29:53.260 --> 29:55.093
Assistant Secretary lewis on the

29:55.093 --> 29:57.260
foreign policy elements of it . But it

29:57.260 --> 29:59.371
would seem to me that a more holistic

29:59.371 --> 30:01.482
approach , a more whole of government

30:01.482 --> 30:04.140
approach does have an outsized effect .

30:04.170 --> 30:06.310
I would just note on , on Southeast

30:06.320 --> 30:08.340
Asia , um we're seeing some really

30:08.340 --> 30:10.640
positive steps for some of these . I

30:10.640 --> 30:12.807
think part of it is because of our the

30:12.807 --> 30:15.029
relationships are getting closer , Part

30:15.029 --> 30:17.084
of it is I think that they're seeing

30:17.084 --> 30:19.140
this approach the chinese are taking

30:19.140 --> 30:21.251
and the false within it . But just to

30:21.251 --> 30:23.251
take one example in Indonesia , the

30:23.251 --> 30:25.307
Chief of Defense , spent eight years

30:25.307 --> 30:27.418
studying in the United States . He is

30:27.418 --> 30:27.360
trying to professionalize their

30:27.360 --> 30:30.240
military . He wants to heighten

30:30.250 --> 30:32.670
institutional capacity building with us .

30:32.740 --> 30:34.851
So I think we're seeing some positive

30:34.851 --> 30:37.018
case studies that we really do need to

30:37.018 --> 30:39.650
build on . Thank you . MS Lewis , thank

30:39.650 --> 30:41.872
you . I fully concur with Dr Carlin and

30:41.872 --> 30:43.872
I really appreciate you asking this

30:43.872 --> 30:45.928
question . I think this is a central

30:45.928 --> 30:48.670
focus of our work right now . Um and we

30:48.670 --> 30:51.820
do need to and I completely believe

30:51.820 --> 30:53.876
that not only does the United States

30:53.876 --> 30:55.709
have the best military equipment

30:55.709 --> 30:57.820
available , but what you get when you

30:57.820 --> 30:59.987
purchase from the United States is the

30:59.987 --> 31:02.098
total package , that's what Dr Carlin

31:02.098 --> 31:04.431
was referring to , you get the training ,

31:04.431 --> 31:06.709
you get the deep relationships with us .

31:06.709 --> 31:08.876
We work with you on maintenance on all

31:08.876 --> 31:10.931
of the pieces and as you point out ,

31:10.931 --> 31:13.153
we're not coming in and you end up debt

31:13.153 --> 31:14.931
laden and you know , asking for

31:14.931 --> 31:17.153
minerals on the side . Um And so um and

31:17.153 --> 31:19.209
I think we have focused on that . We

31:19.209 --> 31:21.380
need to focus on that both in the

31:21.380 --> 31:23.380
region itself . But I also think in

31:23.380 --> 31:25.850
africa and latin America as well . Um

31:25.850 --> 31:28.072
and so this is a center of our focus at

31:28.072 --> 31:29.683
the State Department and the

31:29.683 --> 31:31.572
gentleman's time has expired . Mr

31:31.572 --> 31:35.360
Landry is recognized . Thank you . Mr

31:35.870 --> 31:38.800
gonna be okay . Yes , we got you , go

31:38.800 --> 31:41.860
ahead jim . Very good . Um let me begin

31:41.890 --> 31:44.001
first . I want to thank you . This is

31:44.001 --> 31:46.112
for your testimony today for rightful

31:46.112 --> 31:48.223
uh dr Colin if I could start with you

31:48.223 --> 31:50.680
over the last week we've seen an uptick

31:50.690 --> 31:53.560
in in chinese aggression against Taiwan .

31:53.570 --> 31:56.340
Uh as much as the world has had its

31:56.340 --> 31:59.050
eyes on the Russian invasion of Ukraine .

31:59.440 --> 32:01.329
Can you discuss the importance of

32:01.329 --> 32:04.580
activities like the pacific deterrence

32:04.580 --> 32:07.240
initiative or the Ukrainian Security

32:07.240 --> 32:09.750
Assistance initiative in supporting and

32:09.750 --> 32:13.240
assuring our allies before the um the

32:13.250 --> 32:16.440
answer to this chair , Jim Landy . And

32:16.450 --> 32:18.506
if you could just try to be a little

32:18.506 --> 32:20.283
more clearer directly into your

32:20.283 --> 32:22.394
microphone would be helpful for us in

32:22.394 --> 32:24.561
the room . Thanks . Okay , thank you ,

32:24.561 --> 32:26.394
pull it closer . Did the did the

32:26.394 --> 32:28.672
witnesses get the question congressman ?

32:28.672 --> 32:30.894
If you don't mind ? I actually only got

32:30.894 --> 32:33.006
about half of it and I'd hate to miss

32:33.006 --> 32:32.710
some of it if if you All right , let's

32:32.710 --> 32:34.932
do everyone a favor and start the clock

32:34.932 --> 32:37.960
over five minutes . Can we do that .

32:37.970 --> 32:41.730
I'm gonna do that . Um Loving adam's

32:41.730 --> 32:43.841
not here . Uh so start the clock over

32:43.841 --> 32:46.008
five minutes and uh Resident Landon go

32:46.008 --> 32:48.660
ahead again . Okay , thank you the

32:48.670 --> 32:51.600
questions for dr Carlin . Um are you

32:51.600 --> 32:53.950
hearing more clear now ? Much better

32:53.950 --> 32:57.620
sir ? Okay . Over the last week we've

32:57.620 --> 32:59.770
seen an uptick in chinese aggression

32:59.770 --> 33:01.881
against Taiwan as much as the world's

33:01.881 --> 33:04.048
attention and size has been focused on

33:04.048 --> 33:06.159
the Russian invasion of Ukraine . Can

33:06.159 --> 33:07.826
you discuss the importance of

33:07.826 --> 33:09.992
activities like the pacific deterrence

33:09.992 --> 33:12.700
initiative or the Ukraine Security

33:12.700 --> 33:14.922
Assistance Initiative in supporting and

33:14.922 --> 33:18.090
assuring our allies ? Thank you very

33:18.090 --> 33:20.146
much Congressman and thanks for your

33:20.146 --> 33:22.146
patience on the technical side . We

33:22.146 --> 33:24.368
have absolutely seen this uptick by the

33:24.368 --> 33:27.160
Chinese around Taiwan over the last

33:27.160 --> 33:29.380
week but also even over the last few

33:29.380 --> 33:31.547
months and I would say we are watching

33:31.547 --> 33:33.769
it very closely , we are talking to our

33:33.769 --> 33:35.602
allies and partners about it and

33:35.602 --> 33:37.713
looking at what steps that we need to

33:37.713 --> 33:39.436
take as well because it's it's

33:39.436 --> 33:41.658
problematic , it is unhelpful and it is

33:41.658 --> 33:44.420
also unsafe . Um more broadly , you had

33:44.420 --> 33:47.180
cited Congressman uh these holistic

33:47.180 --> 33:49.320
initiatives like um the pacific

33:49.320 --> 33:52.670
deterrence initiative , the

33:53.140 --> 33:55.251
Security cooperation initiative as it

33:55.251 --> 33:57.362
relates to Ukraine . I might even add

33:57.362 --> 33:59.584
to that list . Things like the european

33:59.584 --> 34:01.807
deterrence initiative that Congress had

34:01.807 --> 34:03.696
pulled together a few years ago .

34:03.696 --> 34:05.862
What's really nice about these efforts

34:05.862 --> 34:07.807
is they ensure that we're taking a

34:07.807 --> 34:10.060
holistic approach um to how we are

34:10.060 --> 34:12.500
dealing with a challenge just to take

34:12.500 --> 34:14.611
one of those examples when we look at

34:14.611 --> 34:16.389
the Ukraine security assistance

34:16.389 --> 34:18.167
initiative That has resulted in

34:18.167 --> 34:20.056
billions of dollars of support to

34:20.056 --> 34:23.770
Ukraine since the 2014 Russian invasion .

34:23.780 --> 34:25.947
It's also been helpful in working with

34:25.947 --> 34:27.890
Ukraine on some necessary defense

34:27.890 --> 34:30.112
reforms that they have needed to make .

34:30.112 --> 34:32.430
So overall , I think these efforts help

34:32.430 --> 34:35.970
us as we approach um challenges in a

34:35.970 --> 34:38.930
more holistic way . Thank you . Thank

34:38.930 --> 34:41.130
you and dot com if I could continue

34:41.130 --> 34:43.610
with you , um you know , we understand

34:43.620 --> 34:45.342
that the concept of integrated

34:45.342 --> 34:47.930
deterrence will play a large role in

34:47.930 --> 34:50.130
the upcoming National Defense strategy

34:50.130 --> 34:52.660
and I have long believed that that no

34:52.660 --> 34:54.790
war will ever before it again without

34:54.790 --> 34:58.730
the inclusion of of cyber . So how

34:58.730 --> 35:01.960
will cyber be incorporated into in

35:01.960 --> 35:04.830
quotes , Integrated deterrence , both

35:04.830 --> 35:06.608
in our plans and strategies and

35:06.608 --> 35:09.510
alongside our allies . Thank you

35:09.510 --> 35:11.510
congressman . That is absolutely an

35:11.510 --> 35:13.621
area that we are looking closely at .

35:13.621 --> 35:15.843
It is really easy to take a traditional

35:15.843 --> 35:18.390
approach to conflicts and think um as

35:18.390 --> 35:20.446
we are looking at responses , what's

35:20.446 --> 35:22.223
the ground element ? What's the

35:22.223 --> 35:24.640
maritime element for example , And we

35:24.640 --> 35:26.890
know that there are newer and different

35:26.890 --> 35:29.112
domains that we've got to account for .

35:29.112 --> 35:31.380
Cyber is a perfect example . Space is

35:31.380 --> 35:33.547
another one . And so what's nice about

35:33.547 --> 35:35.713
the concept of integrated deterrence ?

35:35.713 --> 35:37.824
Is it forces us to baseline , looking

35:37.824 --> 35:40.160
across the different domains , looking

35:40.160 --> 35:42.160
across the spectrum of conflict and

35:42.160 --> 35:44.310
doing that in partnership with our

35:44.310 --> 35:46.580
colleagues across the government and

35:46.580 --> 35:48.590
also with our closest allies and

35:48.590 --> 35:51.890
partners . So this is fundamental to

35:51.890 --> 35:53.834
how I think we need to think about

35:53.834 --> 35:56.300
future contingencies and future

35:56.300 --> 35:58.356
concepts of operations . Thank you .

35:59.640 --> 36:02.520
Thank you . My next question . I'll

36:02.520 --> 36:06.490
start with uh Miss Lewis and that

36:06.490 --> 36:09.490
if we have time dr Colin can uh can

36:09.500 --> 36:12.430
chime in as well . But technological

36:12.430 --> 36:14.208
cooperation with our allies and

36:14.208 --> 36:16.510
partners is critical to our success

36:16.510 --> 36:19.360
abroad . However , um we we've seen

36:19.360 --> 36:21.138
various interoperability issues

36:21.138 --> 36:23.830
hindering us and our allies uh from

36:23.830 --> 36:25.608
quickly and effectively working

36:25.608 --> 36:28.260
together . So what what are we what

36:28.260 --> 36:30.482
efforts are we making to ensure that we

36:30.482 --> 36:32.482
are in lockstep with our allies and

36:32.482 --> 36:34.593
partners and they are with us when it

36:34.593 --> 36:36.927
comes to our technological capabilities ?

36:37.130 --> 36:39.019
Well first of all , thank you for

36:39.019 --> 36:41.186
raising this very important question .

36:41.186 --> 36:43.297
And we are focused on this . You pull

36:43.297 --> 36:45.241
the microphone closer please . The

36:45.241 --> 36:47.408
second time I'm having that problem um

36:47.408 --> 36:49.730
we will see what I was saying is we are

36:49.730 --> 36:52.010
singularly focused on this question of

36:52.010 --> 36:54.121
interoperability and I know both here

36:54.121 --> 36:56.177
both at the State Department and the

36:56.177 --> 36:58.232
Defense Department um and as we work

36:58.232 --> 37:00.343
with our partners and allies , we are

37:00.343 --> 37:02.510
looking at providing them with systems

37:02.510 --> 37:04.621
where they can work with our military

37:04.630 --> 37:06.463
and sometimes that also includes

37:06.463 --> 37:08.463
upgrading systems that they already

37:08.463 --> 37:10.980
have . Um so we have worked across

37:10.990 --> 37:13.120
europe um and then with other close

37:13.130 --> 37:16.080
allies to make sure that we are moving

37:16.080 --> 37:18.080
forward with upgrading all of their

37:18.080 --> 37:20.247
equipment when necessary . And again ,

37:20.247 --> 37:22.580
um , providing them with what they need .

37:22.580 --> 37:25.000
Um , on the tech side , I think I will

37:25.000 --> 37:26.840
say that we do always have to be

37:26.840 --> 37:29.540
careful as we are supplying um , and

37:29.540 --> 37:31.707
working with our partners to make sure

37:31.707 --> 37:33.429
that we are protecting our own

37:33.429 --> 37:35.651
technology . Um , and that , you know ,

37:35.651 --> 37:37.651
is something we also work on at the

37:37.651 --> 37:38.984
same time as we work on

37:38.984 --> 37:40.984
interoperability . Thank you . Very

37:40.984 --> 37:44.610
good . Thank you . I think my time is

37:44.610 --> 37:46.666
just about up . So I'll thank you MR

37:46.666 --> 37:48.777
Chairman . I yield back . Thank you .

37:48.777 --> 37:50.610
Mr Wilson is recognized for five

37:50.610 --> 37:52.610
minutes . Thank you Mr Chairman and

37:52.610 --> 37:54.777
thank you for the witnesses being here

37:54.777 --> 37:56.943
today . Uh , DR Carlin in the midst of

37:56.943 --> 37:59.710
Putin's war . I regret your focus on

37:59.710 --> 38:01.599
climate change based on extremist

38:01.599 --> 38:04.240
science is particularly bizarre today

38:04.350 --> 38:06.400
as the biden policies of destroying

38:06.400 --> 38:08.710
energy jobs in America led to the

38:08.710 --> 38:11.150
United States purchase of Putin oil ,

38:11.240 --> 38:13.462
to finance the mass murder that's going

38:13.462 --> 38:17.040
on today in Ukraine and now

38:17.320 --> 38:20.530
to focus additionally on electric cars

38:20.620 --> 38:23.910
with chinese batteries uh , by this

38:23.910 --> 38:26.360
extremist philosophy to finance the

38:26.360 --> 38:29.680
largest military build up in peacetime

38:29.850 --> 38:32.160
in world history , which will empower

38:32.160 --> 38:34.480
the chinese Communist Party against

38:34.490 --> 38:37.520
american families . Getting real

38:37.560 --> 38:39.380
instead of diverting to the

38:39.380 --> 38:41.510
environmental extremism . We need to

38:41.510 --> 38:43.800
face the exact as existential threat of

38:43.800 --> 38:46.420
Putin today in the Chinese Communist

38:46.420 --> 38:50.030
Party , uh , maybe later today . Um ,

38:50.720 --> 38:52.664
in light of that , to address what

38:52.664 --> 38:54.740
we're doing now . I was grateful to

38:54.740 --> 38:56.910
introduce your Ukraine Democracy

38:56.910 --> 39:00.050
Defense Lend Lease Act of 2022 . This

39:00.050 --> 39:01.883
was to streamline the process of

39:01.883 --> 39:04.050
lending military equipment and defense

39:04.050 --> 39:06.106
of civilian populations in Ukraine .

39:06.320 --> 39:09.330
It's very ironic that when I was in ST

39:09.330 --> 39:11.552
Petersburg , I discovered that the lend

39:11.640 --> 39:14.420
lease policy was largely responsible

39:14.430 --> 39:18.040
for saving Russians in the Nazi siege

39:18.040 --> 39:20.530
of Leningrad . And now we have a

39:20.530 --> 39:23.650
program that could save the Ukrainians

39:23.820 --> 39:27.580
in the siege of Kiev by Putin with this

39:27.580 --> 39:30.550
particular program . Uh , is there any

39:30.550 --> 39:33.070
effort uh , and what can be done to

39:33.070 --> 39:36.100
promote lend lease to promote the law

39:36.100 --> 39:38.267
that I proposed ? And what can be done

39:38.267 --> 39:42.020
even without the law ? Thank you very

39:42.020 --> 39:44.810
much congressman . I am not familiar

39:44.810 --> 39:47.730
with this exact uh , law that , that

39:47.730 --> 39:49.841
you cite . But I would note broadly ,

39:49.841 --> 39:52.890
um , that we have had a steady drumbeat

39:52.900 --> 39:55.170
of assistance and support to Ukraine to

39:55.170 --> 39:57.226
the legitimate government of Ukraine

39:57.226 --> 39:59.850
into helping its military as it quite

39:59.850 --> 40:02.040
literally is engaging in the fight

40:02.050 --> 40:04.640
today . We have focused that assistance ,

40:04.640 --> 40:06.307
which has come together quite

40:06.307 --> 40:08.084
astonishingly quickly . I think

40:08.084 --> 40:10.084
Assistant Secretary Lewis has noted

40:10.084 --> 40:12.307
that the level of that support has been

40:12.307 --> 40:14.500
unprecedented in presidential drawdown

40:14.500 --> 40:16.556
authority and we're really trying to

40:16.556 --> 40:18.778
tailor that to the needs that Ukraine's

40:18.778 --> 40:20.889
military has today . And uh , and two

40:20.889 --> 40:23.000
systems that we know they are already

40:23.000 --> 40:25.278
trained on that , that they can employ .

40:25.278 --> 40:27.167
And additionally , uh , it's been

40:27.167 --> 40:29.278
sighted again , I'm really grateful .

40:29.278 --> 40:32.030
Uh , the leadership , President Donald

40:32.030 --> 40:34.086
trump is the person who provided the

40:34.086 --> 40:36.510
first javelin missiles to defend the

40:36.510 --> 40:38.720
people of Ukraine . Uh , and then uh

40:38.730 --> 40:40.841
flash forward , who would imagine how

40:40.841 --> 40:43.060
successful now Germany is providing

40:43.060 --> 40:45.282
javelin missiles after initially saying

40:45.282 --> 40:47.190
they wouldn't even allow uh , the

40:47.190 --> 40:49.246
javelin missiles of Estonia to cross

40:49.246 --> 40:52.820
their country . And so uh indeed uh

40:52.830 --> 40:55.930
President Vladimir Zelinski has unified

40:55.930 --> 40:58.000
the world to defend the people of

40:58.000 --> 41:01.840
Ukraine with that in mind . Uh have has

41:01.840 --> 41:03.784
the United States provided harpoon

41:03.784 --> 41:07.740
missiles to uh the uh Zelinsky

41:07.750 --> 41:11.180
government . Thank you very much ,

41:11.180 --> 41:13.290
Congressman . You noted Germany's

41:13.300 --> 41:15.578
unprecedented move and I will just say ,

41:15.578 --> 41:17.744
I think it's extraordinary to see what

41:17.744 --> 41:19.911
our european allies have been doing to

41:19.911 --> 41:22.022
support Ukraine , particularly in the

41:22.022 --> 41:24.370
last few days . Um it's quite literally

41:24.380 --> 41:27.030
unprecedented in terms of the support

41:27.030 --> 41:28.863
that we have been giving Ukraine

41:28.863 --> 41:30.974
particularly through the presidential

41:30.974 --> 41:33.141
drawdowns since september there's been

41:33.141 --> 41:35.308
a wide range of , of support including

41:35.308 --> 41:37.419
stinger missiles , javelin missiles ,

41:37.419 --> 41:39.363
anti tank rocket systems , grenade

41:39.363 --> 41:41.308
launchers , more than 2000 tons of

41:41.308 --> 41:43.086
ammunition including mortar and

41:43.086 --> 41:45.197
artillery rounds , small arms machine

41:45.197 --> 41:47.640
guns . It is indeed a lengthy list of

41:47.640 --> 41:50.040
capabilities And I'm glad to see the

41:50.040 --> 41:52.207
change in policy because when I was in

41:52.207 --> 41:54.151
Kiev in December , the plan was to

41:54.151 --> 41:56.262
provide $40 million dollars after the

41:56.262 --> 41:58.540
invasion . And so thank goodness again ,

41:58.540 --> 42:00.262
President Zelensky has been so

42:00.262 --> 42:02.320
successful . Additionally , um Miss

42:02.320 --> 42:06.320
Lewis back on Taiwan we have

42:06.330 --> 42:08.760
the agreements that we have within dope

42:08.760 --> 42:12.540
a calm To provide defense and on the

42:12.540 --> 42:16.250
very day that um Putin invaded Ukraine ,

42:16.260 --> 42:18.880
there were military flights by the

42:18.880 --> 42:21.350
Chinese against Taiwan . We need to be

42:21.350 --> 42:24.690
providing uh every and any item that

42:24.690 --> 42:26.857
could be provided of the most advanced

42:26.857 --> 42:28.890
equipment to protect the 23 million

42:28.890 --> 42:31.070
people of Taiwan . What is being done

42:31.070 --> 42:33.610
diplomatically to do this ? Thank you

42:33.610 --> 42:35.554
for the question Congressman and I

42:35.554 --> 42:37.720
agree that we need to make it

42:37.720 --> 42:39.831
absolutely clear that our support for

42:39.831 --> 42:42.340
Taiwan is rock solid . We have provided

42:42.340 --> 42:44.850
$18 billion dollars to them uh

42:44.860 --> 42:47.027
insecurity assistance and we are going

42:47.027 --> 42:49.249
to continue to do that . We are working

42:49.249 --> 42:51.360
on with them on making sure that they

42:51.360 --> 42:53.610
have the appropriate asymmetric defense

42:53.900 --> 42:56.122
capabilities and we will continue to do

42:56.122 --> 42:58.067
so . Thank you very much and peace

42:58.067 --> 42:59.789
through strength . Thank you .

42:59.789 --> 43:01.678
Gentleman's time has expired . Mr

43:01.678 --> 43:03.900
Larson is recognized for five minutes .

43:03.900 --> 43:02.880
Thank you Mr Chair . Just for the

43:02.880 --> 43:06.150
record 2017 US imports of Russian crude

43:06.150 --> 43:10.080
and petroleum products was 3.84%

43:10.080 --> 43:13.620
in 2017 . As a total Up to

43:13.620 --> 43:17.510
6.87% in 2020 . And it's increased last

43:17.510 --> 43:19.621
year . It's gonna take a little while

43:19.621 --> 43:21.677
for us to turn off the momentum that

43:21.677 --> 43:23.843
started in 2017 with the Russian crude

43:23.843 --> 43:25.954
oil imports . Having said that I want

43:25.954 --> 43:27.899
to move on to the actual situation

43:27.899 --> 43:30.190
we're talking about and ask MS Carlin

43:30.190 --> 43:32.246
what details you can provide to this

43:32.246 --> 43:34.246
committee about the D . O . D . S .

43:34.246 --> 43:36.520
Portion of the recent $6.4 billion

43:36.520 --> 43:38.520
requests from the administration to

43:38.520 --> 43:42.120
support um Ukraine and europe .

43:42.800 --> 43:45.170
Thank you very much , Congressman . Uh

43:45.180 --> 43:48.320
my understanding is that much of that

43:48.330 --> 43:51.090
focuses on the force posture changes uh

43:51.090 --> 43:53.350
and the costs that are inherent in

43:53.350 --> 43:56.330
those um the operating costs given . Uh

43:56.340 --> 43:58.396
that of course , while we have had a

43:58.396 --> 44:00.800
very sizable force posture um in Europe ,

44:00.810 --> 44:03.190
I think it's been about 80,000 or so .

44:03.200 --> 44:06.680
Um we have 93,000 or so . I'm sorry ,

44:06.680 --> 44:08.958
sir , it's higher than that , go ahead .

44:08.958 --> 44:11.400
So um it has since surged , of course .

44:11.410 --> 44:14.040
So now we've got about 100,000 either

44:14.040 --> 44:16.650
in europe or in european waters . And

44:16.650 --> 44:18.650
so my understanding is most of that

44:18.650 --> 44:20.483
request really looks at at those

44:20.483 --> 44:22.820
operating costs . Uh And then a chunk

44:22.820 --> 44:25.160
of it is uh is looking at replenishment

44:25.160 --> 44:27.790
of stocks since we have now done kind

44:27.790 --> 44:29.623
of the third , the unprecedented

44:29.623 --> 44:31.734
presidential drawdown . So this would

44:31.734 --> 44:34.430
help fill some of the material that the

44:34.430 --> 44:36.600
military services have then been able

44:36.600 --> 44:38.460
to facilitate the transfer of to

44:38.460 --> 44:41.720
Ukraine . Thank you . Yeah , if if

44:42.090 --> 44:45.100
if Russia manages to control Ukraine .

44:45.110 --> 44:47.700
Um So it's so that Ukraine is no longer

44:47.700 --> 44:50.610
an independent sovereign country . Um

44:51.390 --> 44:54.610
ah what the what D . O . D . Tools

44:54.610 --> 44:58.150
exist to support making

44:58.330 --> 45:00.386
Ukraine an independent and sovereign

45:00.386 --> 45:02.608
country again that has control over its

45:02.608 --> 45:05.880
own borders . Thank you very much

45:05.890 --> 45:08.690
congressman . The of course it should

45:08.690 --> 45:10.857
not go without saying that what we are

45:10.857 --> 45:12.680
seeing in Ukraine right now is

45:12.680 --> 45:15.310
completely a decision by President

45:15.310 --> 45:17.310
Putin . It is a decision by Putin ,

45:17.310 --> 45:19.477
there's only one president responsible

45:19.477 --> 45:21.532
for this invasion , that's President

45:21.532 --> 45:23.699
Putin . So the question I have is what

45:23.699 --> 45:25.699
D O D tools exist to support making

45:25.699 --> 45:27.532
Ukraine an independent sovereign

45:27.532 --> 45:29.588
country . Again , we can just get to

45:29.588 --> 45:31.866
that , of course , thank you very much .

45:31.866 --> 45:31.290
We can give speeches up here too . I

45:31.290 --> 45:33.457
don't really want the speeches , Thank

45:33.457 --> 45:35.401
you very much , Congressman . What

45:35.401 --> 45:37.401
we're doing is trying to ensure our

45:37.401 --> 45:39.623
commitment to NATO is rock solid . That

45:39.623 --> 45:41.790
has been critical to our force posture

45:41.790 --> 45:44.123
as it relates to Ukraine . Specifically ,

45:44.123 --> 45:46.234
we're doing all we can to support the

45:46.234 --> 45:48.290
legitimate government of Ukraine and

45:48.290 --> 45:50.568
its military right now , as it frankly ,

45:50.568 --> 45:52.734
is engaging in such a critical fight .

45:52.734 --> 45:54.734
And we understand this is a dynamic

45:54.734 --> 45:56.623
situation , one that we of course

45:56.623 --> 45:58.568
closely with our colleagues at the

45:58.568 --> 46:00.512
Department of State are monitoring

46:00.512 --> 46:02.512
closely if there's not a legitimate

46:02.512 --> 46:04.512
government government in Ukraine at

46:04.512 --> 46:06.734
some point in the near future , what do

46:06.734 --> 46:10.700
diy tools exist to support uh the

46:10.710 --> 46:12.700
legitimate leadership of Ukraine ?

46:13.980 --> 46:16.470
Thank you , congressman . While I

46:16.480 --> 46:18.647
understand it is a dynamic situation ,

46:18.650 --> 46:20.428
as I know that we're focused on

46:20.428 --> 46:22.594
supporting the legitimate government ,

46:22.594 --> 46:24.483
I'm a little wary of getting into

46:24.483 --> 46:26.483
hypotheticals right now , but I can

46:26.483 --> 46:28.706
very much assure you , we're looking at

46:28.706 --> 46:30.872
a wide range of scenarios cognizant um

46:30.872 --> 46:33.039
that that further developments may may

46:33.039 --> 46:35.310
warrant a relook . And I know that that

46:35.310 --> 46:37.366
is an effort that we will want to do

46:37.366 --> 46:39.532
very closely with our State Department

46:39.532 --> 46:41.199
colleagues of course . But in

46:41.199 --> 46:43.088
particular very closely with with

46:43.088 --> 46:45.254
Congress whose support for Ukraine has

46:45.254 --> 46:47.477
just been extraordinary throughout this

46:47.477 --> 46:46.890
period . Yeah , I I know something we

46:46.890 --> 46:49.001
don't want to want to contemplate too

46:49.001 --> 46:51.460
much openly , but I do want to

46:51.460 --> 46:53.293
contemplate that we have to have

46:53.293 --> 46:55.410
options that we have to consider from

46:55.410 --> 46:58.270
congressional side to be supportive .

46:58.270 --> 46:59.826
So if you're thinking about

47:00.180 --> 47:03.210
additionally the use of existing

47:03.210 --> 47:05.321
authorities or additional authorities

47:05.480 --> 47:07.610
at least within the D . O . D . Be

47:07.610 --> 47:10.970
helpful to keep us informed of that as

47:10.970 --> 47:14.230
you move along . Absolutely congressman .

47:14.460 --> 47:16.920
Yeah , thanks with that , I'll yield

47:16.920 --> 47:20.620
back and I recognized the actual

47:20.620 --> 47:22.710
ranking member as opposed to the

47:22.710 --> 47:25.760
pretend ranking kind of tricked us all

47:25.760 --> 47:29.000
the way rob sat down uh mike Rogers for

47:29.640 --> 47:33.550
as much time as I think the gentleman ,

47:33.550 --> 47:35.660
I only have one question and I and I

47:35.660 --> 47:38.270
hope you all can answer it . You know ,

47:38.270 --> 47:40.381
the president has announced that he's

47:40.381 --> 47:42.548
sending additional U . S . Troops over

47:42.548 --> 47:45.840
to join our NATO allies in the the

47:45.840 --> 47:47.951
Eastern european front NATO countries

47:49.230 --> 47:53.060
to help with those people fleeing

47:53.060 --> 47:56.350
Ukraine , the refugees . We have been

47:56.350 --> 47:59.100
talking about sending additional

47:59.580 --> 48:02.080
permanent permanently stationed troops

48:02.080 --> 48:04.360
to Romania and Poland and the Baltics

48:04.750 --> 48:07.740
prior to the invasion . And my question

48:07.740 --> 48:10.200
is , does the administration support

48:10.670 --> 48:14.060
this result ? That after this

48:14.070 --> 48:15.959
invasion that we make those troop

48:15.959 --> 48:17.980
presence make that troop presence

48:17.980 --> 48:19.980
permanent in those Eastern european

48:19.980 --> 48:23.280
front countries . Thank you very much ,

48:23.280 --> 48:25.470
congressman . Obviously we are

48:25.470 --> 48:27.637
following the situation really closely

48:27.637 --> 48:30.930
as you might recall last august or so

48:30.960 --> 48:33.520
september or so . Um Secretary Austin

48:33.520 --> 48:35.576
released his global posture review ,

48:35.576 --> 48:37.798
which had looked closely at our posture

48:37.798 --> 48:39.909
in europe and largely saw that it was

48:39.909 --> 48:42.131
about right . We recognize this dynamic

48:42.131 --> 48:44.187
situation now requires us to give it

48:44.187 --> 48:46.187
another fine tooth look Uh , to see

48:46.187 --> 48:48.298
what's necessary to ensure that we've

48:48.298 --> 48:50.409
got deterrence of Russia and and that

48:50.409 --> 48:54.250
we can absolutely 150% say that

48:54.260 --> 48:57.200
that that NATO is is safe and secure .

48:57.210 --> 49:00.340
So we're looking at what sort of troop

49:00.340 --> 49:02.451
presence , whether it's rotational or

49:02.451 --> 49:04.950
permanent uh , is necessary given this

49:05.020 --> 49:07.020
this current security environment ,

49:07.020 --> 49:09.242
both in the near term and frankly , and

49:09.242 --> 49:11.630
in the long term , I do think that it

49:11.630 --> 49:13.797
would send a great message to our NATO

49:13.797 --> 49:17.390
allies uh , that that we are serious uh ,

49:17.400 --> 49:19.456
about what the president said in his

49:19.456 --> 49:21.511
public address a few days ago and he

49:21.511 --> 49:23.511
said we were absolutely going to do

49:23.511 --> 49:25.678
everything in our power to protect our

49:25.678 --> 49:27.844
NATO allies at their borders . I think

49:27.844 --> 49:30.011
the best way to demonstrate this is to

49:30.011 --> 49:32.540
enhance our position there . Uh we do

49:32.540 --> 49:34.930
need uh an additional brigade in in

49:34.930 --> 49:37.190
Romania on the Black sea . I'd like to

49:37.190 --> 49:39.246
see the striker brigade that's moved

49:39.246 --> 49:41.190
there temporarily made permanent ,

49:41.190 --> 49:43.550
Poland has agreed to pay for basing if

49:43.550 --> 49:45.550
we would establish a permanent base

49:45.550 --> 49:48.120
there . I think that's an obvious we

49:48.120 --> 49:50.176
should do . But also the Baltics are

49:50.176 --> 49:52.398
very vulnerable . So I do hope that you

49:52.398 --> 49:54.620
all will look at establishing permanent

49:54.620 --> 49:56.842
basing in those areas . And with that I

49:56.842 --> 49:58.564
yield back . Thank you . Chair

49:58.564 --> 50:00.898
recognizes Mr Courtney for five minutes .

50:00.898 --> 50:03.064
Thank you Mr Chairman and thank you to

50:03.064 --> 50:05.287
the witnesses this morning . Again . Mr

50:05.287 --> 50:07.370
Chairman . Um I'd asked that um two

50:07.370 --> 50:09.426
items be admitted to the record . An

50:09.426 --> 50:11.648
article from Reuters , which shows that

50:11.648 --> 50:13.870
Canadian oil exports actually shattered

50:13.870 --> 50:16.610
records in recent weeks . So the notion

50:16.610 --> 50:18.721
that there's pipeline interference in

50:18.721 --> 50:21.510
terms of Canadian oil is clearly not

50:21.520 --> 50:24.570
being um it's not in conformance with

50:24.570 --> 50:26.810
the data . Also oil price dot com just

50:26.810 --> 50:28.977
reported yesterday or a couple of days

50:28.977 --> 50:30.921
ago that the U . S . Rig count has

50:30.921 --> 50:33.032
grown for the 18th straight week . So

50:33.032 --> 50:34.477
the notion that the biden

50:34.477 --> 50:36.588
administration is suppressing oil and

50:36.588 --> 50:38.950
gas or that the Canadian oil is not

50:38.960 --> 50:41.760
coming into the US as both of these

50:41.770 --> 50:43.270
industry um ,

50:48.060 --> 50:50.116
journals , indicators in in fact not

50:50.116 --> 50:52.970
correct that objection . Um when we

50:52.970 --> 50:56.310
talk about ways to help our allies in

50:56.310 --> 50:58.366
the situation in Ukraine , I think ,

50:58.366 --> 51:00.830
you know , one and it's not strictly

51:00.830 --> 51:02.941
under the Department of Defense , but

51:02.941 --> 51:04.997
the approach that the administration

51:04.997 --> 51:07.108
took in terms of sharing intelligence

51:07.160 --> 51:09.120
over the last really two or three

51:09.120 --> 51:12.920
months is very um I think uh

51:13.960 --> 51:16.293
distinctive in terms of that . You know ,

51:16.293 --> 51:18.790
we did not sort of try and really pick

51:18.790 --> 51:20.901
and choose which allies were going to

51:20.901 --> 51:23.012
get information or even the world for

51:23.012 --> 51:25.179
that matter . And I just wonder if you

51:25.179 --> 51:27.234
could maybe spend a minute dr Carlin

51:27.234 --> 51:29.457
just sort of talking about the thinking

51:29.457 --> 51:31.623
behind that approach and why it really

51:31.623 --> 51:33.880
helped . I think blunt any false flag

51:33.880 --> 51:35.602
operations , Who are any other

51:35.602 --> 51:37.880
misinformation in terms of the lead up ?

51:38.860 --> 51:41.220
Thank you very much congressman . I do

51:41.220 --> 51:43.630
think this was an unprecedented effort

51:43.640 --> 51:46.460
to shine the spotlight on Russia's

51:46.460 --> 51:49.190
plans and Russians Russia's behavior .

51:49.200 --> 51:51.570
Um , and no doubt will want to study

51:51.570 --> 51:54.430
its impact for for years and years . Uh

51:54.440 --> 51:57.030
it was extraordinary to watch the work

51:57.030 --> 51:59.197
of the intelligence community and just

51:59.197 --> 52:01.308
how quickly they were able to do this

52:01.308 --> 52:03.419
declassification when necessary or to

52:03.419 --> 52:05.586
make material relevant , release a ble

52:05.586 --> 52:07.641
to our allies and partners . I don't

52:07.641 --> 52:09.697
believe that a day has gone by since

52:09.697 --> 52:11.752
early december . Where either in the

52:11.752 --> 52:13.530
Defense Department of the State

52:13.530 --> 52:15.363
Department , there hasn't been a

52:15.363 --> 52:17.474
discussion with an ally or partner on

52:17.474 --> 52:19.252
what we are seeing , what we're

52:19.252 --> 52:21.197
understanding and trying trying to

52:21.197 --> 52:23.141
share that . That's been useful in

52:23.141 --> 52:22.950
ensuring that we have a common threat

52:22.960 --> 52:25.182
picture . It's also I think been useful

52:25.182 --> 52:27.404
to the world to our public so that they

52:27.404 --> 52:29.571
understand contrary to when we've seen

52:29.571 --> 52:31.627
Russian disinformation in the past .

52:31.627 --> 52:33.460
Like in 2014 , no kidding who is

52:33.460 --> 52:35.516
exactly to blame for what's going on

52:35.516 --> 52:37.571
and that is solely president Putin ?

52:37.571 --> 52:39.900
Thank you . That helped in terms of

52:39.900 --> 52:42.067
making sure there was no daylight with

52:42.067 --> 52:43.956
our allies in terms of everyone's

52:43.956 --> 52:46.011
understanding of what , what in fact

52:46.011 --> 52:48.011
was going on . Is that right ? Oh ,

52:48.011 --> 52:51.080
sorry , please . 100% . And um I think

52:51.090 --> 52:54.670
we have really seen NATO Europe our

52:54.670 --> 52:56.726
allies and partners around the world

52:56.726 --> 52:59.780
come together and speak with a United

52:59.780 --> 53:01.670
Voice against what Putin is doing

53:01.670 --> 53:03.600
inside Ukraine . And I think this

53:03.600 --> 53:05.720
effort again , I I have to join Dr

53:05.720 --> 53:08.440
Carlin in commending the intelligence

53:08.440 --> 53:10.580
community for the unbelievable work

53:10.580 --> 53:12.380
they did a in producing the

53:12.380 --> 53:14.480
intelligence , um informing policy

53:14.480 --> 53:16.760
makers such as yourselves . Um and then

53:16.760 --> 53:19.140
making sure that it was accessible to

53:19.140 --> 53:21.196
our allies and partners so that they

53:21.196 --> 53:23.196
understood what was going on . Um I

53:23.196 --> 53:25.196
know that the State Department that

53:25.196 --> 53:26.973
this has been a key part of the

53:26.973 --> 53:29.610
conversation that we've had on a

53:29.620 --> 53:32.400
literally a daily basis . Um you know ,

53:32.400 --> 53:34.567
as long as we're talking unprecedented

53:34.567 --> 53:36.567
efforts by the administration , I'd

53:36.567 --> 53:38.733
like to just spend a second on Aucas ,

53:38.733 --> 53:40.900
which again , is obviously the crown ,

53:40.900 --> 53:43.011
it's sharing technology that arguably

53:43.011 --> 53:45.178
is the crown jewels nuclear propulsion

53:45.178 --> 53:47.400
technology , which we've done with only

53:47.400 --> 53:49.622
one other country back in 1958 with the

53:49.622 --> 53:52.170
you with the UK . Um and again , the I

53:52.170 --> 53:55.080
would just note that the Um public

53:55.080 --> 53:57.250
opinion polls in Australia after that

53:57.260 --> 54:00.070
agreement was announced , were over 60%

54:00.080 --> 54:02.320
approval uh , and very little

54:02.330 --> 54:04.810
opposition , which I think has really

54:04.820 --> 54:07.150
gone a long way in terms of reasserting

54:07.160 --> 54:09.320
um the fact that we're serious about

54:09.330 --> 54:11.540
that alliance with with that country .

54:11.540 --> 54:13.651
But could you also just comment for a

54:13.651 --> 54:15.873
second the fact that that there's other

54:15.873 --> 54:17.984
aspects than just submarines and that

54:17.984 --> 54:20.650
there's other ways that focus is going

54:20.650 --> 54:23.240
to strengthen our bonds and also that

54:23.240 --> 54:25.296
it's not exclusive just to the three

54:25.296 --> 54:27.320
countries . Thank you very much

54:27.320 --> 54:29.487
congressman , I really appreciate that

54:29.487 --> 54:31.487
you brought up august which is this

54:31.487 --> 54:33.542
historic effort to knit together our

54:33.542 --> 54:35.376
country Australia and the United

54:35.376 --> 54:37.790
Kingdom with a serious robust

54:37.790 --> 54:40.000
technological security partnership .

54:40.010 --> 54:41.954
The undersea piece is probably the

54:41.954 --> 54:43.954
first one . I think it's the one so

54:43.954 --> 54:45.954
many of us have have focused on but

54:45.954 --> 54:48.177
it's very much expanding . Looking into

54:48.177 --> 54:50.343
key areas like artificial intelligence

54:50.343 --> 54:52.960
and quantum as just a two of them . And

54:52.960 --> 54:55.220
I think frankly that this unprecedented

54:55.230 --> 54:58.580
effort um is critical to indo pacific

54:58.580 --> 55:01.180
security . I think when we look at you

55:01.180 --> 55:03.236
know our relationship with Australia

55:03.236 --> 55:05.458
just to take that is obviously one that

55:05.458 --> 55:07.680
is historic . Australia has fought next

55:07.680 --> 55:09.902
to the U . S . Military I think in just

55:09.902 --> 55:12.069
about every conflict over the last 100

55:12.069 --> 55:14.124
years or so as we see how we can get

55:14.124 --> 55:16.236
into the most sensitive technological

55:16.236 --> 55:18.347
cooperation . I think it just puts us

55:18.347 --> 55:20.458
in a in a very different . Ballgame .

55:20.458 --> 55:22.624
Thank you . Thank you gentlemen . Time

55:22.624 --> 55:25.210
has expired . Dr Dejarld . Thank you .

55:25.210 --> 55:26.980
Mr Chairman . Thank you to our

55:26.980 --> 55:29.091
witnesses for being here today . I'll

55:29.091 --> 55:31.530
start with DR Carlin in your opening

55:31.530 --> 55:33.697
statement . I was pleased to hear your

55:33.697 --> 55:35.363
emphasis on the importance of

55:35.363 --> 55:37.586
integrated deterrence and as you know ,

55:37.586 --> 55:39.808
the foundation of integrated deterrence

55:39.808 --> 55:41.752
is our nuclear deterrent uh as the

55:41.752 --> 55:43.752
biden administration undertakes its

55:43.752 --> 55:45.641
nuclear posture review . Have you

55:45.641 --> 55:47.880
solicited input from our european

55:47.880 --> 55:50.760
allies in your preparation for the NPR ?

55:51.940 --> 55:53.829
Thank you very much congressman .

55:53.829 --> 55:56.051
Indeed . We have and we've done it at a

55:56.051 --> 55:57.829
wide variety of levels from the

55:57.829 --> 56:00.051
Secretary of Defense , all the way down

56:00.051 --> 56:02.051
to the desk officer . We've done it

56:02.051 --> 56:01.730
closely with our colleagues at the

56:01.730 --> 56:03.952
State Department and at the White House

56:03.952 --> 56:05.952
and we've really done all we can to

56:05.952 --> 56:08.119
ensure we're hearing from our european

56:08.119 --> 56:10.119
allies uh and also I would note are

56:10.119 --> 56:12.286
close allies in the indo pacific south

56:12.286 --> 56:14.619
Korea , Japan and Australia . Thank you .

56:14.619 --> 56:16.786
What what are you hearing from them in

56:16.786 --> 56:19.460
terms of the nuclear declaratory policy .

56:19.460 --> 56:21.760
That seems to be a hot topic and there

56:21.760 --> 56:24.560
seems to be an indication that there

56:24.560 --> 56:28.130
may be a weakening of the no first use

56:28.130 --> 56:30.297
in terms of the biden administration .

56:30.297 --> 56:32.610
What our allies saying in regards to

56:32.610 --> 56:35.830
that , Thank you very much congressman

56:35.840 --> 56:37.951
in this wide variety of discussions .

56:37.951 --> 56:39.951
We've heard a lot from our from our

56:39.951 --> 56:42.160
closest allies uh and the the

56:42.160 --> 56:43.993
importance that they also put on

56:43.993 --> 56:46.920
extended deterrence as we do . Um we've

56:46.920 --> 56:48.976
talked to them a lot and heard their

56:48.976 --> 56:51.087
thoughts on our need to have a safe ,

56:51.087 --> 56:53.364
secure and effective nuclear deterrent .

56:53.364 --> 56:55.420
And we have ensured throughout these

56:55.420 --> 56:57.642
conversations that we are getting their

56:57.642 --> 56:59.698
inputs and that as decisions will be

56:59.698 --> 57:01.890
made by the president of course , um

57:01.900 --> 57:04.011
that we are in close discussions with

57:04.011 --> 57:05.678
them above all . I would just

57:05.678 --> 57:07.900
underscore that are extended deterrence

57:07.900 --> 57:10.233
commitments remain ironclad . Thank you .

57:10.233 --> 57:12.456
Okay . I personally have had members of

57:12.456 --> 57:14.567
countries such as Poland reach out to

57:14.567 --> 57:16.900
me , uh , stressing the importance of

57:16.910 --> 57:19.840
not adopting a no first use declaratory

57:19.840 --> 57:22.720
policy . And uh , I know that that's

57:22.720 --> 57:24.831
been in the talks considering Russian

57:24.831 --> 57:27.880
strategic nuclear exercises . I think

57:27.880 --> 57:29.991
that it's important that we we do the

57:29.991 --> 57:32.047
right thing there . And I think that

57:32.047 --> 57:34.269
the impression I get from our allies is

57:34.269 --> 57:36.491
that they I would not want us to have a

57:36.491 --> 57:38.658
no first use declaratory policy . So I

57:38.658 --> 57:40.910
would just add that also . Uh , there's

57:40.910 --> 57:44.110
been mention of dropping our low yield

57:44.110 --> 57:46.170
nuclear weapons program . And do you

57:46.170 --> 57:49.340
have any insight on that ? Thank you

57:49.340 --> 57:51.562
very much congressman . I would say the

57:51.562 --> 57:53.507
nuclear posture , which has been a

57:53.507 --> 57:55.507
really rigorous interagency efforts

57:55.507 --> 57:57.580
since Gosh july or august or so has

57:57.580 --> 57:59.469
really looked holistically at our

57:59.469 --> 58:01.540
nuclear capabilities , tried to tie

58:01.540 --> 58:03.540
them to our understanding of threat

58:03.540 --> 58:05.540
scenarios , the impact they have on

58:05.540 --> 58:07.762
deterrence or the impact that they have

58:07.762 --> 58:09.818
on assurance . And I think that that

58:09.818 --> 58:11.984
once once final decisions are are made

58:11.984 --> 58:14.290
on that you'll see that and once those

58:14.290 --> 58:16.401
decisions are made . I'd be more than

58:16.401 --> 58:18.623
than well willing to sit down and speak

58:18.623 --> 58:20.623
with you or your staff about this .

58:20.623 --> 58:22.846
Okay , thank you . Let's let's shift to

58:22.846 --> 58:24.901
china . We've kind of nibbled around

58:24.901 --> 58:24.360
this a little bit today . Obviously

58:24.360 --> 58:26.693
what's going on with Russia and Ukraine ?

58:26.693 --> 58:28.304
We have to keep our eye on ,

58:36.720 --> 58:38.887
we've got to ensure that it is aligned

58:38.887 --> 58:40.770
to our biggest concerns and that

58:40.770 --> 58:43.100
includes indo pacific security as a as

58:43.100 --> 58:46.200
a top priority . Okay . For both you

58:46.200 --> 58:48.270
and MS Lewis , um I understand that

58:48.270 --> 58:50.048
Taiwan has made requests to the

58:50.048 --> 58:52.103
administration for access to foreign

58:52.103 --> 58:54.048
military financing dollars . It is

58:54.048 --> 58:56.159
apparent to me that if any country is

58:56.159 --> 58:58.326
needed this funding , uh it's Taiwan ,

58:58.326 --> 59:00.437
what has been the cause for the delay

59:00.437 --> 59:02.437
and would congressional action help

59:02.437 --> 59:04.659
expedite this request ? Well , first of

59:04.659 --> 59:04.610
all , I really want to thank you for

59:04.610 --> 59:06.832
the question because I do think we need

59:06.832 --> 59:08.721
to continue to focus on china and

59:08.721 --> 59:11.150
Taiwan even at this moment where we are

59:11.320 --> 59:13.740
Understandably looking at what's

59:13.740 --> 59:15.907
happening inside Ukraine . And I think

59:15.907 --> 59:18.018
as you may know , we've provided over

59:18.018 --> 59:19.018
$18 billion

59:19.018 --> 59:23.330
2017 .

59:23.340 --> 59:25.490
We are always looking at ways to

59:25.500 --> 59:28.840
enhance that . Um and uh improve

59:28.960 --> 59:31.620
their capabilities were particularly

59:31.620 --> 59:33.620
focused as I mentioned before on

59:33.620 --> 59:36.200
building the asymmetric capabilities of

59:36.200 --> 59:38.510
Taiwan . Um and we are working with

59:38.510 --> 59:40.454
them on a regular basis to do so .

59:40.454 --> 59:42.621
We're always happy to continue to work

59:42.621 --> 59:44.850
with your office and other members of

59:44.850 --> 59:47.510
Congress with additional ideas in ways

59:47.510 --> 59:49.670
that we can do so effectively . Thank

59:49.670 --> 59:50.240
you both .