WEBVTT

00:00.880 --> 00:03.740
so the search respectfully , the $30

00:03.740 --> 00:05.940
million cost for those six planes

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accounted for the induction of those

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aircraft into long term storage on the

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the work required to preserve them in

00:16.780 --> 00:19.020
that condition . So that's not work

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that we normally would do to an

00:20.798 --> 00:22.798
aircraft on a flight line , because

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ultimately our goal , our objective

00:24.798 --> 00:26.853
there is to continue to fly them . I

00:26.853 --> 00:26.530
could certainly get you a breakdown of

00:26.530 --> 00:28.880
the costs associated with that entry

00:28.880 --> 00:31.047
into long term storage and then , with

00:31.047 --> 00:33.213
the annual costs , are associated with

00:33.213 --> 00:36.450
storage of those Turkish jets . Now , I

00:36.460 --> 00:38.460
have been surprised finding we have

00:38.460 --> 00:40.460
these contracts being renewed every

00:40.460 --> 00:42.460
year and then still , the contracts

00:42.460 --> 00:44.571
don't seem to be getting any better .

00:44.571 --> 00:46.738
Are their performance metrics that are

00:46.738 --> 00:49.071
required penalties for not meeting them ?

00:49.071 --> 00:51.293
Um , I mean , these are things that are

00:51.293 --> 00:53.460
seen basic in the corporate world that

00:53.460 --> 00:55.627
we seem to have a hard time doing when

00:55.627 --> 00:57.571
it comes to military contracting .

00:57.700 --> 01:00.170
Congressman , I'd like to address that .

01:00.180 --> 01:03.580
I was in industry for 33 years before

01:03.580 --> 01:06.050
taking this job about three years ago ,

01:06.190 --> 01:09.800
and my primary energy has been put into

01:09.800 --> 01:12.570
rewriting the opposition system for the

01:12.570 --> 01:14.681
department of defense . So we used to

01:14.681 --> 01:17.950
have one large one size fits all system ,

01:18.400 --> 01:20.567
and we've broken that system down into

01:20.567 --> 01:22.800
six individual pathways . So , for

01:22.800 --> 01:24.800
instance , for talking About Oden ,

01:24.800 --> 01:27.530
which is the upgrade from Alice , were

01:27.530 --> 01:30.860
using modern software techniques on

01:30.860 --> 01:33.200
that . So we are tailoring to your

01:33.200 --> 01:35.950
specific questions about sustainment .

01:36.040 --> 01:38.840
What we're doing is refining the

01:38.840 --> 01:41.520
incentive fee structure , going back

01:41.520 --> 01:43.742
and getting the voice of the customer ,

01:43.742 --> 01:46.670
understanding what it takes to get

01:46.680 --> 01:50.050
aircraft operational and making

01:50.050 --> 01:53.770
sure that as we write in Senate fees ,

01:53.780 --> 01:56.020
there is a very clear linkage there .

01:56.150 --> 01:58.340
Additionally , we've said multiple

01:58.340 --> 02:00.562
times this morning that one of the root

02:00.562 --> 02:02.680
causes of the eels problems in the or

02:02.680 --> 02:06.520
if I problems are Alice thesis oft

02:06.520 --> 02:08.670
where system we used to collect data

02:08.680 --> 02:11.110
and maintain the information . That's

02:11.110 --> 02:13.460
an out of date system and what we're

02:13.460 --> 02:16.330
doing in developing Oden , its

02:16.330 --> 02:18.650
replacement is going directly to the

02:18.650 --> 02:20.706
maintainers and getting the voice of

02:20.706 --> 02:22.890
the customer to make sure we drive

02:22.890 --> 02:25.870
software requirements from frontline

02:25.880 --> 02:28.830
user what they need versus someone

02:28.830 --> 02:30.886
sitting in a lab , deciding that for

02:30.886 --> 02:33.240
them , thank you . My time's expired

02:33.240 --> 02:35.240
out to say it's extremely important

02:35.240 --> 02:37.462
that we owe It's an American taxpayer .

02:37.462 --> 02:39.629
It's a patriotic duty to do this right

02:39.629 --> 02:41.684
efficiently and require Locky to pay

02:41.684 --> 02:43.962
penalties when they don't get it right .

02:45.100 --> 02:47.840
Mr . Steele back Germany goes back

02:47.850 --> 02:50.017
Chair recognizes ranking member . Mr .

02:50.017 --> 02:51.850
Chairman , I asked for unanimous

02:51.850 --> 02:53.961
consent to clarify Mr Almost response

02:53.961 --> 02:56.560
to my questions . First , you're second

02:56.560 --> 03:00.410
quarter profit is $1.6 billion .

03:01.150 --> 03:03.840
Second , your fiscal year , 19 profit

03:03.840 --> 03:07.580
was $6.2 billion . So I

03:07.580 --> 03:11.210
renew my question , which was , why is

03:11.210 --> 03:13.321
lucky failing to fulfill the contract

03:13.730 --> 03:16.550
and deliver ills intact and on time

03:17.240 --> 03:20.970
and ask for these documents to be in

03:20.970 --> 03:24.680
the record and you repeat your

03:24.680 --> 03:28.350
question . Right ? OK , so , Mr Palmer ,

03:28.350 --> 03:30.683
I hope you heard that without objection .

03:30.683 --> 03:33.560
The documents are accepted . Chair now

03:33.560 --> 03:35.970
recognizes the gentleman from Virginia ,

03:35.970 --> 03:39.200
Mr Conley for five minutes . Thank you ,

03:39.200 --> 03:41.550
Mr Chairman . That thank you for this

03:41.560 --> 03:45.380
day has some rapid park questions of

03:45.390 --> 03:48.970
this more . What's unique about the 35

03:49.100 --> 03:52.370
program ? There are a long list of

03:52.370 --> 03:54.537
things that make it a unique program ,

03:54.537 --> 03:56.703
but about many different things . It's

03:56.703 --> 03:58.537
it's one . It's an international

03:58.537 --> 04:00.870
program . It's not just a U . S program ,

04:00.870 --> 04:02.814
so international partners put some

04:02.814 --> 04:05.770
proposes allies like the British and

04:05.780 --> 04:08.002
the National strategies have a voice in

04:08.002 --> 04:11.100
decision look , lovely interrupt . But

04:11.110 --> 04:14.660
isn't there something else ? The J 35

04:14.670 --> 04:18.380
is me . The F 35 is replacing . Always

04:18.390 --> 04:20.950
strike fighters , right ? Yes , it's

04:20.950 --> 04:22.894
designed to replace a number of of

04:22.894 --> 04:25.061
legacy fighters across three different

04:25.061 --> 04:27.228
services the Brink or the Navy and the

04:27.228 --> 04:29.339
air cliffs . And we haven't done that

04:29.339 --> 04:31.506
before . We've never We've never had a

04:31.506 --> 04:33.561
single system that was designed over

04:33.561 --> 04:35.561
fresh . Three different . So that's

04:35.561 --> 04:37.561
what's unique . The stakes here are

04:37.561 --> 04:39.450
enormous . They affect all of our

04:39.450 --> 04:41.617
services were never done this before ,

04:41.617 --> 04:44.360
and it's a critical piece of US defence

04:44.410 --> 04:47.980
and offensive capability as well . Um ,

04:48.310 --> 04:52.270
you g a o this more , uh , going back

04:52.270 --> 04:56.130
to 2014 . Provided a number

04:56.140 --> 04:59.710
of recommendations . Two D o .

04:59.710 --> 05:02.910
D . The project manager , which we have

05:02.920 --> 05:06.560
focused on a lot yet including trying

05:06.560 --> 05:08.782
to create a performance measurement for

05:08.782 --> 05:11.380
Alice back in 20 September 2014 were

05:11.380 --> 05:13.713
those recommendations adopted by the OD .

05:14.730 --> 05:16.786
That specific recommendation has not

05:16.786 --> 05:18.841
been adopted , repeated again in our

05:18.841 --> 05:21.063
March 2020 report and permitted over to

05:21.063 --> 05:23.286
conferences to get Congress take action

05:23.340 --> 05:26.370
should sure that that happens , So

05:27.140 --> 05:29.750
oh , why did happen ?

05:32.840 --> 05:35.062
I mean , get over one today . You think

05:35.200 --> 05:37.710
with the stakes this high on this

05:37.710 --> 05:40.270
unique program D o . D . Would run that

05:40.270 --> 05:43.360
walk to make corrections to a system

05:43.560 --> 05:45.671
that was defective and you documented

05:45.671 --> 05:48.970
it back in 2014 6 years ago . I

05:48.970 --> 05:51.081
completely agree . We definitely want

05:51.081 --> 05:53.081
to see you dampen that . All of our

05:53.081 --> 05:55.026
recommendations desperate , but as

05:55.026 --> 05:57.192
possible about my court concerned that

05:57.192 --> 05:59.303
haven't done it yet . Why , Why not ?

05:59.303 --> 06:01.470
Well , over the years we've heard from

06:01.470 --> 06:01.100
them that they have a number of other

06:01.190 --> 06:03.357
issues to address for the up 30 flight

06:03.357 --> 06:05.412
program we're talking about today is

06:05.412 --> 06:07.634
one of many sustainment challenges that

06:07.634 --> 06:09.523
they're facing . It's also a very

06:09.523 --> 06:11.746
difficult thing for them to do , but we

06:11.746 --> 06:13.857
think it's vital because it will . It

06:13.857 --> 06:16.079
happens . I never know what what's good

06:16.079 --> 06:18.246
enough when it's going to be . But now

06:18.246 --> 06:20.357
we're in a place where sustainment is

06:20.357 --> 06:22.468
the major problem in the guest , uh ,

06:22.468 --> 06:24.634
35% because they ignored it . You were

06:24.634 --> 06:26.801
recommendations and those of the D . O

06:26.801 --> 06:28.370
d I g . Miss Help were your

06:28.370 --> 06:30.590
recommendations over the years

06:30.600 --> 06:32.656
implemented by the project in a spin

06:32.656 --> 06:35.420
offs . The Joint Program office agreed

06:35.420 --> 06:38.550
to our recommendations in our June 2020

06:38.550 --> 06:41.270
19 report . However , we're waiting for

06:41.270 --> 06:43.326
supporting documentation to validate

06:43.326 --> 06:45.048
that they have implemented the

06:45.048 --> 06:47.760
recommendations . In your testimony ,

06:47.770 --> 06:50.870
you gave us a long laundry list of

06:50.870 --> 06:53.770
issues that were seemingly cavalierly

06:53.780 --> 06:56.950
ignored by the Joint program office

06:57.490 --> 06:59.434
over the years . Is that correct ?

07:02.440 --> 07:06.120
Uh , yes . I touched on the Ile

07:06.130 --> 07:08.241
issues , sir . And then they also the

07:08.241 --> 07:11.310
incentive fees . And even when they

07:11.310 --> 07:13.366
were getting feedback from the field

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from pilots from command centers in the

07:16.900 --> 07:20.500
light , they still didn't changes .

07:20.820 --> 07:23.310
That would have gone some way . We're

07:23.320 --> 07:25.653
Ameliorating problems . Is that correct ?

07:26.030 --> 07:28.250
The joint program office in October of

07:28.260 --> 07:31.690
2018 issued guidance allowing the

07:31.700 --> 07:33.922
parts to go on the aircraft without the

07:33.922 --> 07:36.630
Elektronik equipment , logbooks and

07:36.640 --> 07:39.860
additional labor duty . Labor was used

07:39.870 --> 07:42.240
with workarounds to make sure the parts

07:42.240 --> 07:44.573
could get on the aircraft for it to fly .

07:45.940 --> 07:48.150
The Alice program we're talking about

07:48.160 --> 07:50.390
that was created by Lockheed just for

07:50.390 --> 07:53.850
this program . Is that correct ? While

07:53.850 --> 07:55.920
Alice wasn't a direct focus of our

07:55.920 --> 07:58.142
report is my understanding that that is

07:58.142 --> 08:01.760
true eyes that your understanding this

08:01.760 --> 08:04.950
more Yes , Alice was created

08:04.950 --> 08:08.450
specifically for the F 35 and ,

08:08.940 --> 08:11.450
UH , it was approved by the Joint

08:12.240 --> 08:14.600
Project office . Is that correct ? That

08:14.600 --> 08:16.767
is correct . It was approved nearly 20

08:16.767 --> 08:20.660
years ago , 20 years ago , so has

08:20.670 --> 08:23.210
been updated . It's been updated

08:23.210 --> 08:26.200
several times that did not go fully .

08:26.200 --> 08:28.033
Operate . Alice did not go fully

08:28.033 --> 08:30.311
operational . It's about two years ago ,

08:30.311 --> 08:32.510
2018 at a number of problems all over

08:32.510 --> 08:35.160
when getting rolled out , there been a

08:35.160 --> 08:37.820
number of updates . But the central

08:37.820 --> 08:40.220
problem is it's never that user needs .

08:40.240 --> 08:42.100
We've heard some the helmets

08:42.100 --> 08:43.822
neighborhoods got better , and

08:43.822 --> 08:46.640
certainly it's downloading faster , and

08:46.880 --> 08:49.390
users conflict things faster . But the

08:49.390 --> 08:51.501
bottom line is there . No performance

08:51.501 --> 08:53.612
measures in place to assess for their

08:53.612 --> 08:55.779
users are getting what they and heat .

08:55.779 --> 08:57.723
So that's in places that we're not

08:57.723 --> 08:59.946
going to know when it's good in our And

08:59.946 --> 09:01.779
for the record , you advised the

09:01.779 --> 09:03.779
Department of Defense six years ago

09:03.779 --> 09:06.112
that it needed such performance metrics .

09:06.112 --> 09:08.030
Yes , we get record production

09:08.040 --> 09:10.096
department , and they did not act on

09:10.096 --> 09:12.210
that recommendation . They have taken

09:12.210 --> 09:14.043
some actions , but it's not been

09:14.043 --> 09:16.377
sufficiently close to my final question .

09:16.377 --> 09:18.750
Mr . Chairman , this more had they

09:18.760 --> 09:20.871
accepted that recommendation when you

09:20.871 --> 09:22.982
made it . Do you believe that some of

09:22.982 --> 09:25.149
the problems were chronicling today in

09:25.149 --> 09:27.316
this hearing Could have been avoided ?

09:28.140 --> 09:29.918
Yes . I think if they had fully

09:29.918 --> 09:32.084
implemented the recommendation at such

09:32.084 --> 09:34.196
nice 15 or 2016 accretive potentially

09:34.196 --> 09:36.307
investigated a number of the problems

09:36.307 --> 09:38.418
you talked about . I would just say ,

09:38.418 --> 09:40.640
Mr Chairman , we focused on correctly ,

09:40.640 --> 09:43.100
you know , the shortcomings of the

09:43.100 --> 09:45.070
contractor . But we also as the

09:45.070 --> 09:47.360
oversight committee , need to focus on

09:47.360 --> 09:49.580
the shortcomings of the management of

09:49.580 --> 09:51.747
contracting and the contractor . And I

09:51.747 --> 09:54.060
think this hearing and this testimony

09:54.060 --> 09:56.171
we just heard from this columnist for

09:56.240 --> 09:58.360
certainly should give us pause about

09:58.360 --> 10:00.860
how confident the oversight management

10:00.900 --> 10:03.680
of the single most important new

10:03.980 --> 10:06.147
fighter aircraft in the history of the

10:06.147 --> 10:08.650
United States has been . You back .

10:10.940 --> 10:12.996
Think of the gentleman . Yields back

10:12.996 --> 10:15.162
the chair now recognizes the gentleman

10:15.162 --> 10:17.496
from Ohio , Mr Gibbs , for five minutes .

10:17.496 --> 10:19.662
Thank you , Mr Chairman . Mr . Almer ,

10:19.662 --> 10:22.620
I hope you're still there . Do Legacy

10:22.620 --> 10:25.980
aircraft have heels ? I'm sorry ,

10:25.980 --> 10:28.147
Congressman . Repeat the question . Do

10:28.147 --> 10:31.120
legacy aircraft have heels ? No , sir .

10:31.340 --> 10:34.490
No congressman . So I guess my thought

10:34.490 --> 10:37.350
is is because because the F 35 is such

10:37.350 --> 10:40.580
a sophisticated , complicated , highly

10:40.580 --> 10:42.980
technological aircraft is Is that the

10:42.980 --> 10:45.258
reason why I had the program for years ?

10:45.258 --> 10:49.110
How do you or how do you do it with the

10:49.120 --> 10:52.920
legacy aircraft for parts more

10:52.920 --> 10:54.864
sing ? Yes , sir . The maintenance

10:54.864 --> 10:56.990
system for legacy airplanes are more

10:57.500 --> 10:59.650
segregated , Not integrated systems

10:59.650 --> 11:03.470
that support specific platforms . So

11:03.470 --> 11:06.680
this is , Ah , attempt . The the Alice

11:06.690 --> 11:08.760
in the electronic equipment logbook

11:08.760 --> 11:11.820
approach relative to the technology

11:12.210 --> 11:13.877
really is about an integrated

11:13.890 --> 11:15.880
sustainment . Says I t sustainment

11:15.880 --> 11:18.720
system for a platform . Okay , General

11:18.720 --> 11:22.470
thick . Do the deals pose any

11:22.470 --> 11:24.350
safety concern of risk ? Is that

11:27.140 --> 11:29.251
so ? My understanding from talking to

11:29.251 --> 11:31.473
the maintenance group commanders in the

11:31.473 --> 11:33.696
field that authorized their aircraft to

11:33.696 --> 11:35.918
fly in the event that apart is not . Or

11:35.918 --> 11:37.862
if I there is not a safety concern

11:37.862 --> 11:39.918
associated with flying aircraft with

11:39.918 --> 11:42.140
those parts , they will not . They will

11:42.140 --> 11:44.307
not allow apart to be installed in the

11:44.307 --> 11:46.584
aircraft , if that's okay . I got that .

11:46.584 --> 11:48.807
So So So the issue is not getting those

11:48.807 --> 11:50.973
parts readily available and in place .

11:50.973 --> 11:50.700
So they're crafting flies . That's what

11:50.700 --> 11:54.600
the issue is . So I guess the next that

11:54.600 --> 11:57.910
would be how how much delay our ,

11:58.540 --> 12:01.600
uh you know , f 35 have been grounded .

12:01.690 --> 12:03.610
You know what , where we are that

12:04.620 --> 12:06.842
because of that because of that ? So we

12:06.842 --> 12:09.280
have . We have mixed data from our

12:09.300 --> 12:11.467
those commanders in the field relative

12:11.467 --> 12:13.689
to the times at which they have allowed

12:13.689 --> 12:15.800
those aircraft to fly without heels .

12:15.800 --> 12:17.800
We have really good air information

12:17.800 --> 12:19.911
from from one of the installations in

12:19.911 --> 12:22.022
particular that we're using T kind of

12:22.022 --> 12:24.244
sort through and figure out well , I'll

12:24.244 --> 12:26.356
call an adjudication of what the rial

12:26.356 --> 12:28.467
impact would be from a cost incentive

12:28.467 --> 12:30.689
perspective . We have other information

12:30.689 --> 12:32.633
from other wings that is less less

12:32.633 --> 12:34.689
clear . And then still other wings .

12:34.689 --> 12:36.744
I'll say the Navy , the Marine Corps

12:36.744 --> 12:38.633
particular , are not allowing the

12:38.633 --> 12:40.689
aircraft to fly period with Nana fry

12:40.689 --> 12:42.744
parts , so there's not an issue with

12:42.744 --> 12:46.010
them . Okay , um , I just heard . I

12:46.020 --> 12:49.390
guess the person with their office

12:49.720 --> 12:52.140
talking about the Alice program just

12:52.140 --> 12:54.251
rolled out two years ago . But then I

12:54.251 --> 12:56.900
heard earlier testimony that it was a

12:56.900 --> 12:59.067
program that started way before that .

12:59.067 --> 13:01.233
Is that so ? Alice has been around for

13:01.233 --> 13:03.344
a long , long time . I don't know . I

13:03.344 --> 13:05.400
think 2000 and I did hear it doesn't

13:05.400 --> 13:07.567
have the technology of the iPhone that

13:07.567 --> 13:10.930
the newer Softwares and stuff . And so

13:11.020 --> 13:14.090
whose fault sat ? I mean , is that

13:14.090 --> 13:16.780
discovered bureaucracy ? Or is that was

13:16.780 --> 13:18.947
that was that was that happened at the

13:18.947 --> 13:21.224
Fokker has been around for a long time ,

13:21.224 --> 13:23.447
but I just got rolled out two years ago

13:23.447 --> 13:25.447
with technology that's out 10 years

13:25.447 --> 13:27.502
outdated . Eso the first . I can get

13:27.502 --> 13:27.310
you the exact date , sir . But the

13:27.310 --> 13:29.254
first Alice versions , I believe ,

13:29.254 --> 13:32.230
rolled out in the 6 4007 timeframe and

13:32.230 --> 13:34.450
have been updated on a 12 to 18 months

13:34.750 --> 13:36.806
and McCain's . Since then . We had a

13:36.806 --> 13:39.680
substantial update to the Alice system

13:39.680 --> 13:41.791
as we entered I O . T . And he and we

13:41.791 --> 13:44.330
have continued to update from was what ?

13:44.330 --> 13:46.330
When I entered the program a couple

13:46.330 --> 13:48.386
years back , it was Alice . 2.0 , we

13:48.386 --> 13:51.540
moved 2.4 . We moved to 30 or 31 The

13:51.540 --> 13:53.800
version in the field today that 87% of

13:53.800 --> 13:57.160
the units have is Alice 3.5 point two ,

13:57.600 --> 13:59.780
which is the most recent innovation .

13:59.930 --> 14:01.874
Greg mentioned that we're going to

14:01.874 --> 14:04.097
quarterly release around time . I would

14:04.097 --> 14:06.152
ask another question . Whoever wants

14:06.152 --> 14:08.319
answer . I guess this f 35 . The whole

14:08.319 --> 14:10.097
system is . We know it's high ,

14:10.097 --> 14:12.319
sophisticated , very complicated . High

14:12.319 --> 14:14.430
technology , technological is it ? Is

14:14.430 --> 14:16.380
it fair for Lockheed Martin on the

14:16.380 --> 14:19.320
contract because you're in a whole new ,

14:20.610 --> 14:22.890
you know , area sophistication ?

14:24.600 --> 14:26.767
Was it right to have a contractor with

14:26.767 --> 14:28.940
they they couldn't do Because so many

14:28.940 --> 14:31.890
unknowns bringing the system on tonight

14:32.450 --> 14:34.506
is , I guess I'm just floored . That

14:34.506 --> 14:37.570
might be a question of you . We have

14:37.580 --> 14:41.420
different contract types that correlate

14:41.430 --> 14:43.790
with the risk involved . When there's ,

14:43.800 --> 14:45.744
ah , high level of development and

14:45.744 --> 14:47.980
unknown . We do cost plus type

14:47.990 --> 14:50.330
contracts where we pay for what is

14:50.330 --> 14:52.497
needed , and there's a different level

14:52.497 --> 14:55.160
of fee . Then , when it's more known ,

14:55.160 --> 14:57.438
when you get into full rate production ,

14:57.438 --> 14:59.493
for instance , those are fixed price

14:59.493 --> 15:01.950
contracts with incentive fees for

15:01.950 --> 15:05.240
meeting certain criteria . So where we

15:05.240 --> 15:07.560
are in the Department of Defense is

15:07.560 --> 15:09.727
really working to make sure all of our

15:09.727 --> 15:12.500
contracting officers have all the

15:12.510 --> 15:14.510
different techniques , so we'll see

15:14.510 --> 15:17.050
just 35 been developing for quite a

15:17.050 --> 15:19.630
while now . They're starting do a lot

15:19.630 --> 15:21.852
more appointments . So we moved in that

15:21.852 --> 15:24.350
second face for production , and then

15:24.350 --> 15:27.010
what ? We are in the midst of doing is

15:27.010 --> 15:29.660
developing sustainment contracts that

15:29.660 --> 15:31.771
air better tailored and you're seeing

15:31.780 --> 15:33.780
Are you seeing better results now ,

15:33.780 --> 15:36.002
since it's gone along with working with

15:36.002 --> 15:38.336
the manufacturer Lockheed Martin ? Well ,

15:38.336 --> 15:40.558
we started out when I got involved with

15:40.558 --> 15:42.224
the program three years ago .

15:42.224 --> 15:44.447
Absolutely . From a production point of

15:44.447 --> 15:46.669
view , we got much , much more fidelity

15:46.669 --> 15:48.724
and around what was happening on the

15:48.724 --> 15:50.836
manufacturing floor . I will say that

15:50.836 --> 15:52.669
the Department of Defense has an

15:52.669 --> 15:54.891
enormous amount of data now relative to

15:54.891 --> 15:57.002
that versus where we were three weeks

15:57.002 --> 15:59.058
ago , I would say we're just turning

15:59.058 --> 16:01.250
our real focus on sustainment now and

16:01.250 --> 16:03.650
just beginning to build that robots

16:03.660 --> 16:05.950
state a set . So we have a number of

16:05.950 --> 16:08.180
teams working on the Alice to Odin

16:08.180 --> 16:10.390
transition as well as the You're

16:10.390 --> 16:12.810
confident , optimistic , that cost

16:12.810 --> 16:14.866
overruns , all that things are gonna

16:14.866 --> 16:16.977
get better improving . I am confident

16:16.977 --> 16:18.977
that we are making progress , but I

16:18.977 --> 16:20.921
think we still have a way to go in

16:20.921 --> 16:22.977
sustainment . Okay . Thank you . I'm

16:22.977 --> 16:24.921
out of time to go back . Gentleman

16:24.921 --> 16:26.977
yields back the chair now recognizes

16:26.977 --> 16:29.199
the gentleman from California , Mr Roda

16:29.520 --> 16:32.490
for five minutes . Thank you , Mr you .

16:32.490 --> 16:34.800
Mr Chair . Thank you to all of our

16:34.800 --> 16:37.120
participants . We appreciate your

16:37.120 --> 16:39.380
commitment to the security of our

16:39.380 --> 16:42.020
country , and I've got a few questions .

16:42.020 --> 16:44.380
I'd like to ask one of my main concerns

16:44.380 --> 16:47.260
with the F 35 program that if left

16:47.270 --> 16:49.870
unaddressed , problems with defective F

16:49.870 --> 16:53.160
35 spare parts will only get worse as

16:53.160 --> 16:55.160
the fleet grows . If my numbers are

16:55.160 --> 16:57.750
correct , as of February 2020 the

16:57.750 --> 17:00.860
Global F 35 fleet was about 500

17:00.870 --> 17:03.830
aircraft , but the fleet is expected to

17:03.830 --> 17:07.770
double by 2023 . The U . S alone

17:07.770 --> 17:11.630
players to purchase about 2500 F 35

17:11.810 --> 17:13.921
from Lockheed Martin over the life of

17:13.921 --> 17:16.390
the program , as was pointed out

17:16.400 --> 17:18.567
earlier , to really replace our entire

17:18.567 --> 17:21.390
fleet . That growth may be great for

17:21.400 --> 17:23.567
Lockheed Martin's bottom line . But if

17:23.567 --> 17:26.530
problems with the F 35 software , such

17:26.530 --> 17:28.690
as Alison Elektronik logs on spare

17:28.690 --> 17:30.857
parts are not thoroughly addressed and

17:30.857 --> 17:32.968
fixed , of course , the headaches for

17:32.968 --> 17:35.023
US pilots and maintenance crews will

17:35.023 --> 17:37.800
only grow . So Miss Hall , is it a fair

17:37.800 --> 17:39.633
assumption that the problems you

17:39.633 --> 17:42.580
identified in your June 2019 report

17:42.580 --> 17:45.700
will only get worse as the F 35 fleet

17:45.710 --> 17:49.610
expands ? It is true

17:49.610 --> 17:52.910
that Unless the ready for issues bear

17:52.910 --> 17:55.960
part and he'll issue is addressed , it

17:55.960 --> 17:58.780
will continue to perpetuate . And we've

17:58.780 --> 18:01.280
seen from the joint program office ,

18:01.280 --> 18:03.280
you know , guidance to fly aircraft

18:03.280 --> 18:05.447
with deals . With the fleet continuing

18:05.447 --> 18:08.640
to grow , the the problems will become

18:08.640 --> 18:12.490
more pervasive unless addressed his .

18:12.490 --> 18:14.268
Now , would you agree with that

18:14.268 --> 18:17.900
assessment ? I

18:17.900 --> 18:20.150
definitely agree to The F 35 programs

18:20.160 --> 18:22.216
faces a number of challenges on this

18:22.216 --> 18:24.216
sustained in front those challenges

18:24.216 --> 18:26.216
around , exacerbated by the chicken

18:26.216 --> 18:28.438
growth besides the overall fight , both

18:28.438 --> 18:30.438
here in the United States and other

18:30.438 --> 18:32.160
advise , so they have a lot of

18:32.160 --> 18:34.160
challenges that we are encouraged .

18:34.160 --> 18:36.382
They agreed with our recommendations on

18:36.382 --> 18:38.438
sustainment . Reporters are starting

18:38.438 --> 18:40.604
conviction . Fair enough , thank you .

18:40.604 --> 18:42.827
Air Force personnel also told committee

18:42.827 --> 18:44.938
staff that if not addressed , current

18:44.938 --> 18:46.993
issues with electronic logs of spare

18:46.993 --> 18:49.340
parts will likely compound as the F 35

18:49.340 --> 18:51.396
fleet expands in additional aircraft

18:51.396 --> 18:53.410
deployed on combat missions , for

18:53.410 --> 18:55.632
example , would committee staff visited

18:55.720 --> 18:57.942
Hill Air Force Base in Utah , they were

18:57.942 --> 19:01.150
told that an F 35 squadron had received

19:01.160 --> 19:03.271
an immense amount of support when the

19:03.271 --> 19:05.493
squadron deployed in the Middle East in

19:05.493 --> 19:08.530
April 2019 . This in fact was the F 35

19:08.530 --> 19:11.120
1st time flying combat missions and

19:11.120 --> 19:13.009
everyone everyone want to see the

19:13.009 --> 19:15.176
mission succeed without a hitch . That

19:15.176 --> 19:17.342
deployment had only a handful of about

19:17.342 --> 19:20.170
35 compared to the eventual size of the

19:20.170 --> 19:22.990
anticipated fleet , and many staff were

19:22.990 --> 19:24.768
told that would be difficult to

19:24.768 --> 19:26.823
maintain that level support . As you

19:26.823 --> 19:28.934
have 35 fleet grew in the demand from

19:28.934 --> 19:30.879
violence . Maintainers and support

19:30.879 --> 19:33.750
personnel grew along with it . Mr Armor ,

19:33.860 --> 19:36.027
the most recent combat deployment of F

19:36.027 --> 19:38.720
35 from Hill Air Force Base at

19:38.730 --> 19:42.470
beginning of June . If their deployment

19:42.480 --> 19:44.813
follows past ones , that should be home .

19:44.813 --> 19:47.036
I think in about six months , Mr Omar ,

19:47.036 --> 19:49.202
can you commit today that the problems

19:49.202 --> 19:51.202
with electronic logs on spare parts

19:51.202 --> 19:53.424
will be fixed by the term that squadron

19:53.424 --> 19:56.170
comes home , Congressman , And it'll

19:56.170 --> 19:58.337
take us more than that time to resolve

19:58.337 --> 20:00.392
these issues . But we are focused to

20:00.392 --> 20:03.110
resolve these issues . I appreciate

20:03.110 --> 20:05.440
your candor , Lieutenant General Thick ,

20:05.450 --> 20:07.617
Mr . Omer . Lockheed Martin can't meet

20:07.617 --> 20:09.740
that commitment . How will the joint

20:09.740 --> 20:11.740
Program office a Defense Department

20:11.740 --> 20:13.851
ensure our pilots are fully supported

20:13.851 --> 20:17.710
other future deployments ? So , Mr

20:17.710 --> 20:20.840
Congressman , we have put language in

20:20.840 --> 20:24.070
place in our 19 and 20 r F 1 19 and 20

20:24.070 --> 20:27.370
spares contract that requires eels on .

20:27.560 --> 20:29.671
I'm sorry . That requires parts to be

20:29.671 --> 20:31.838
or if I upon delivery . So we have set

20:31.838 --> 20:34.160
the stake in the sand relative to the

20:34.170 --> 20:35.948
delivery of those parts . We're

20:35.948 --> 20:39.150
committed to working with the services

20:39.160 --> 20:41.160
with Lockheed Martin and with other

20:42.030 --> 20:45.670
industry best best partners to In Stan .

20:45.670 --> 20:48.740
She ate Oden as the solution to the

20:48.750 --> 20:50.990
problem problems that we continue

20:50.990 --> 20:54.150
tohave in . Alice . Andi , I firmly

20:54.150 --> 20:56.261
believe that Thean Stan shih ation of

20:56.261 --> 20:58.510
Oden is the is the intervention

20:58.510 --> 21:01.610
required to most completely address the

21:01.610 --> 21:03.332
issue with non Or if I parts .

21:05.590 --> 21:07.800
Thank you . We all know these problems

21:07.800 --> 21:10.022
have to be fixed , that they need to be

21:10.022 --> 21:12.330
fixed before the F 35 fleet is so large

21:12.600 --> 21:14.711
that problems with missing electronic

21:14.711 --> 21:16.544
logs , effective spare parts and

21:16.544 --> 21:18.767
continuing software glitch just are not

21:18.767 --> 21:20.933
so overwhelming . It cannot be fixed .

21:20.933 --> 21:22.989
And with that , I yield back . Thank

21:22.989 --> 21:26.440
you , Mr Chair . I now

21:26.440 --> 21:29.600
recognize Mr Higgins . Mr . Higgins .

21:32.640 --> 21:35.180
Thank you about your can't crack and

21:35.180 --> 21:36.180
member .

21:39.550 --> 21:40.994
Thank you , Madam . Chair

21:42.900 --> 21:46.700
General picked Americans

21:46.700 --> 21:50.200
want air dominance worldwide .

21:50.610 --> 21:54.410
My military forces and the

21:54.420 --> 21:57.070
parents and families of our pilots . I

21:57.080 --> 21:59.130
want those pilot pilot step total

21:59.130 --> 22:02.090
confidence in their aircraft . We're

22:02.100 --> 22:06.090
focused primarily today or talking

22:06.090 --> 22:09.790
about issues we have with Elektronik

22:09.790 --> 22:13.700
equipment logbook , the hell and

22:13.860 --> 22:17.350
the classification off missing . He'll

22:17.350 --> 22:20.610
data in replacement parts for the up 35

22:20.610 --> 22:24.410
platform , um , would be considered non

22:24.410 --> 22:26.900
or if I were not ready for issues

22:28.200 --> 22:31.430
absent those problems as we as we work

22:31.430 --> 22:35.210
through those issues . General pick ,

22:35.210 --> 22:38.500
do you consider the F 35 to be the

22:38.500 --> 22:41.810
platform that delivers air dominance

22:42.150 --> 22:43.983
for the United States of America

22:43.983 --> 22:46.850
Worldwide ? I absolutely do .

22:48.700 --> 22:51.300
Thank you . That's what we're looking

22:51.310 --> 22:54.590
for . And as we address the problems

22:54.590 --> 22:56.770
we're discussing today , which I have

22:56.780 --> 22:59.380
complete confidence that Lockheed

22:59.380 --> 23:02.110
Martin is dedicated to resolve . So I

23:02.110 --> 23:04.950
turned my my question to Mr Omer .

23:05.870 --> 23:09.700
Um , things Domer are sustainment

23:09.700 --> 23:13.460
costs , but they have 35 Stanley

23:13.460 --> 23:16.890
coming down , Congressman .

23:17.390 --> 23:19.279
For every dollar of sustainment ,

23:19.279 --> 23:21.730
approximately 39 cents is Lockheed

23:21.730 --> 23:25.270
Martin contributes to about 13% . 13

23:25.270 --> 23:27.270
cents has to do with the propulsion

23:27.270 --> 23:29.326
system , and the remainder has to do

23:29.326 --> 23:31.492
with operational sustainment costs for

23:31.492 --> 23:34.360
the government . Lockheed Martin , in

23:34.360 --> 23:36.760
the interest of fine , let me just

23:37.150 --> 23:39.650
America needs to know , You know , we

23:39.650 --> 23:42.560
recognize that there are problems with

23:43.110 --> 23:45.510
with the full deployment manufacturer

23:45.510 --> 23:48.750
and perfection off this of this world

23:48.750 --> 23:51.910
class aircraft that Lockheed Martin is

23:51.920 --> 23:54.220
delivering for our nation and for

23:54.220 --> 23:56.650
freedoms purpose across the world . We

23:56.650 --> 23:59.000
need to know our sustainment costs

23:59.000 --> 24:01.780
steadily coming down and yes or no .

24:02.740 --> 24:04.796
Yes , they are . The Lockheed Martin

24:04.796 --> 24:07.018
elements of sustainment costs have come

24:07.018 --> 24:09.240
down 44% from a cost per flying hour in

24:09.240 --> 24:11.351
the last five years . There are other

24:11.351 --> 24:15.190
indicators on the or the seal the

24:15.200 --> 24:17.950
deal non or if I issues , is that being

24:17.950 --> 24:20.060
aggressive looking alive ?

24:21.840 --> 24:23.951
Yes , sir , We're aggressively engage

24:23.951 --> 24:26.173
to resolve that issue with our with our

24:26.173 --> 24:29.910
customer , right ? And a part or

24:29.910 --> 24:32.180
component that's that's missing . He'll

24:32.180 --> 24:35.530
data is then considered non . Or if I ,

24:35.530 --> 24:37.570
my colleagues that refer to it as

24:37.570 --> 24:40.470
defective , does that part work . Will

24:40.470 --> 24:43.060
the plane fly ? If that technician

24:43.060 --> 24:46.960
manually updates that congressman ,

24:46.960 --> 24:49.016
there's no issue with the part . The

24:49.016 --> 24:51.071
part is not defective . The issue is

24:51.071 --> 24:53.071
with the Elektronik file associated

24:53.071 --> 24:55.404
with the part understood would just Yes ,

24:55.404 --> 24:57.460
sir , we're clarifying for America .

24:57.460 --> 24:59.571
It's important that we know regarding

24:59.571 --> 25:01.738
with the progress that Lockheed Martin

25:01.738 --> 25:04.300
has made in the engine . You can you

25:04.300 --> 25:06.660
clarify ? According to my research ,

25:06.930 --> 25:10.510
production since 2017 has

25:11.410 --> 25:14.900
shown ability to consistently deliver

25:14.990 --> 25:17.400
zero defect aircraft since 2000

25:17.400 --> 25:21.200
sittings 70 Sir , we have ah , very

25:21.200 --> 25:24.160
strong track record , actually , multi

25:24.160 --> 25:26.260
years relative to zero defect

25:26.270 --> 25:28.159
deliveries . We are less than one

25:28.159 --> 25:30.640
defect for delivery for the last

25:30.640 --> 25:33.510
several years . That thank you for that

25:33.510 --> 25:37.080
response , sir . General Pick in his in

25:37.080 --> 25:40.610
his opening statement . And And I quote ,

25:40.610 --> 25:42.770
he said , The bottom line is we need

25:42.770 --> 25:45.190
parts delivered on time with all

25:45.190 --> 25:47.460
required electronic identification

25:47.460 --> 25:51.310
markings and records right upon arrival .

25:51.550 --> 25:55.430
Um , Mr Omer , when can we get there ?

25:55.440 --> 25:57.740
Are you optimistic we're going in that

25:57.740 --> 26:01.610
direction and get in there quickly . So

26:01.610 --> 26:03.850
we're optimistic we can get above 90%

26:03.860 --> 26:05.970
by the end of this year , as General

26:05.970 --> 26:07.970
fake alluded to . We're going to be

26:07.970 --> 26:10.830
challenged to achieve 99% ready for

26:10.830 --> 26:12.890
issue . And we're taking the actions

26:12.890 --> 26:14.946
necessary to support that metric and

26:14.946 --> 26:17.168
requirement by our customer . Thank you

26:17.168 --> 26:19.279
for your response , Madam Chair . Let

26:19.279 --> 26:21.557
me say that my father was a Navy pilot .

26:21.557 --> 26:23.557
World War two . I'm a veteran . And

26:23.557 --> 26:26.130
yesterday I spoke with a dear friend of

26:26.130 --> 26:29.920
mine whose son is a pilot for the Navy .

26:29.920 --> 26:32.370
And he shared the concern of parents

26:32.370 --> 26:35.800
and families across the country that

26:35.810 --> 26:38.880
their concern is that there that our

26:38.890 --> 26:41.360
pilots are flying planes , that they

26:41.490 --> 26:43.750
and all that . Thank you for holding

26:43.760 --> 26:45.640
this meeting today . I think the

26:45.640 --> 26:47.860
ranking member and I think that the

26:47.860 --> 26:50.170
witnesses were testifying today . We're

26:50.170 --> 26:52.226
working through these issues , and I

26:52.226 --> 26:56.010
have total faith in the F 35 jet and

26:56.010 --> 26:57.700
Lockheed Martin and I you

27:02.990 --> 27:05.280
I thank the gentleman for his questions

27:05.280 --> 27:07.740
in his statement , and I now yield uh ,

27:08.160 --> 27:11.280
such five minutes to congresswoman spot

27:11.480 --> 27:14.030
Jackie Spear . Thank you , Madam Chair .

27:14.030 --> 27:16.310
Thank you all for participating today .

27:16.840 --> 27:19.260
Let me ask you a question , Lieutenant

27:19.260 --> 27:22.450
General , there's no question that the

27:22.460 --> 27:24.293
Alice system is underperformed .

27:24.293 --> 27:27.820
Correct ? Uh , yes . More , this Lord .

27:29.320 --> 27:33.170
Absolutely . This Mr Elmer , is it true

27:33.180 --> 27:37.060
that it has underperformed ? It's

27:37.060 --> 27:38.949
not being our customer warfighter

27:38.949 --> 27:41.171
requirement . It is underperformed . It

27:41.171 --> 27:43.760
has been anticipated that there's

27:43.770 --> 27:47.750
$183 million that Lockheed Martin

27:47.760 --> 27:50.570
owes The taxpayers is country for this

27:50.580 --> 27:52.691
under performance . How much time has

27:52.691 --> 27:54.780
been spent negotiating with Lockheed

27:54.780 --> 27:57.790
Martin and how , how long and how much

27:57.790 --> 27:59.346
time , Lieutenant general .

28:02.710 --> 28:05.180
So my recollection , ma'am , is that

28:05.190 --> 28:06.900
the negotiations specifically

28:06.900 --> 28:09.120
associated with the the consideration

28:09.120 --> 28:11.940
on heels began in earnest in April of

28:11.940 --> 28:14.220
this year and it continues marching .

28:14.230 --> 28:16.397
How many hours have been put into it ?

28:16.590 --> 28:18.812
I don't have that number off the top of

28:18.812 --> 28:20.979
my head , Miss Lord , I would estimate

28:20.979 --> 28:23.910
tens of hours tens of hours by the

28:23.910 --> 28:27.430
government by the government . DCM A

28:27.440 --> 28:29.607
that's doing that for us . Thank you ,

28:29.607 --> 28:31.718
Mr Armor . You continue to say you're

28:31.718 --> 28:33.980
negotiating on something that is

28:33.980 --> 28:36.630
clearly established that you have

28:36.640 --> 28:38.880
underperformed . It's been estimated

28:38.880 --> 28:42.700
that $183 million the United States

28:42.700 --> 28:44.644
government , the taxpayers of this

28:44.644 --> 28:48.640
country are paying 75% of

28:48.650 --> 28:51.880
your budget and your profits .

28:52.540 --> 28:54.990
I want to know when you're gonna pay

28:54.990 --> 28:58.090
the $183 million stopped nickel and

28:58.090 --> 29:00.201
dime ing the United States government

29:00.201 --> 29:01.312
and the taxpayers .

29:03.640 --> 29:05.990
Congressman Azzawi , you've identified

29:05.990 --> 29:07.879
in this testimony That number has

29:07.879 --> 29:10.710
changed from 303 to 183 which is a new

29:10.710 --> 29:13.870
number to me today . So I think we have

29:13.880 --> 29:15.991
due diligence to do amongst ourselves

29:15.991 --> 29:17.940
relative to the contributors that

29:17.940 --> 29:19.996
influence the issues associated with

29:19.996 --> 29:22.107
electronic heels . We know that it is

29:22.107 --> 29:24.384
not right . So I have very little time .

29:24.470 --> 29:26.650
How much time are you going to take

29:26.660 --> 29:28.882
before we're gonna have an answer as to

29:28.882 --> 29:30.993
whether or not you're gonna repay the

29:30.993 --> 29:33.300
government ? Congressman , we continue

29:33.300 --> 29:35.411
to negotiate in good faith across the

29:35.411 --> 29:37.960
table . Right ? Let me let me more . Um ,

29:40.340 --> 29:42.507
are we absolutely committed to doing ,

29:42.730 --> 29:46.690
um , Odeon Oden ?

29:46.870 --> 29:49.210
Yes . Absolutely . We have the dates

29:49.210 --> 29:51.266
rolling out right now . We'll have .

29:51.266 --> 29:53.043
All right , let me ask you this

29:53.043 --> 29:55.154
question . As I calculated it , if we

29:55.154 --> 29:57.266
continue to just do work arounds over

29:57.266 --> 29:59.680
the course of the next 66 years , it

29:59.680 --> 30:02.770
would cost us $3.6 billion to just do

30:02.770 --> 30:06.190
work arounds with the existing Alice

30:06.190 --> 30:08.650
system . Are we gonna end up paying

30:08.650 --> 30:12.550
mawr for Oden than $3.6 billion ?

30:13.440 --> 30:16.790
What ? We are developing Oden so that

30:16.790 --> 30:18.901
we don't have to do work around where

30:18.901 --> 30:20.846
you I understand up . And so we're

30:20.846 --> 30:22.901
doing it for the same amount that we

30:22.901 --> 30:25.123
had budgeted just for Baseline Dallas .

30:25.290 --> 30:28.640
So how much is it going to cost time ?

30:28.650 --> 30:31.540
There's $547 million across 21 through

30:31.540 --> 30:34.190
25 in the budget associated with Oden .

30:34.370 --> 30:36.600
I'm sorry associated with with Oden .

30:36.830 --> 30:39.052
We believe there's also on the order of

30:39.052 --> 30:42.130
about $70 million a year between now on

30:42.130 --> 30:44.270
day 2022 that we will continue to put

30:44.280 --> 30:47.570
into Dallas who is going toe own the

30:47.580 --> 30:49.747
intellectual property U S government .

30:50.140 --> 30:52.670
No question , no question . And that

30:52.670 --> 30:56.040
will then allow us to have others fix

30:56.040 --> 30:58.520
it . So we're not negotiating with the

30:58.520 --> 31:02.520
prime contractor over easily . $183

31:02.520 --> 31:05.120
million when we pay Ah , half a

31:05.120 --> 31:07.430
$1,000,000,000 for every plane we

31:07.430 --> 31:09.740
purchased from them . I would like to

31:09.740 --> 31:12.190
say to Mr Omer , you are not a good

31:12.190 --> 31:14.180
actor in this . This is just one

31:14.180 --> 31:16.800
component . We already know that there

31:16.810 --> 31:20.610
are nine flaws on the F 35 that are

31:20.610 --> 31:24.500
identified as critical as

31:24.750 --> 31:27.330
priority ones that , to my knowledge ,

31:27.330 --> 31:29.400
have still not been addressed . So

31:29.410 --> 31:31.632
we're looking at one component of the F

31:31.632 --> 31:33.710
35 . We've had lots of problems . Of

31:33.720 --> 31:36.100
the F 35 we've had problems with the

31:36.100 --> 31:39.080
seats . We got problems with the oxygen

31:39.080 --> 31:41.780
system and for you not come to the

31:41.780 --> 31:44.480
table and negotiate this 100 A $3

31:44.480 --> 31:47.670
million really aggravates me and should

31:47.680 --> 31:49.513
aggravate every taxpayer in this

31:49.513 --> 31:52.850
country . Owning this system outright

31:52.850 --> 31:55.490
should have been the case initially and

31:55.490 --> 31:57.860
we wouldn't be in this situation . And

31:57.870 --> 31:59.981
for all those that think that somehow

31:59.981 --> 32:02.203
the F 35 is the safest playing around .

32:03.180 --> 32:05.180
I've got news for you . We have had

32:05.180 --> 32:07.430
problems with this plane and we

32:07.430 --> 32:09.430
continue to have problems with this

32:09.430 --> 32:12.550
plane , and we should be very concerned

32:12.550 --> 32:16.260
about these eel system not being

32:16.270 --> 32:18.750
accurate because it draws that whole

32:18.760 --> 32:20.760
issue into question without a yield

32:20.760 --> 32:24.020
back . I thank the gentle lady for her

32:24.020 --> 32:26.780
passion and knowledge on this issue ,

32:27.260 --> 32:29.940
and now would like Teoh call on

32:29.940 --> 32:32.580
Congressman heist . Congressman Hice .

32:33.810 --> 32:36.032
Thank you , madam . Here . I think it's

32:36.032 --> 32:39.550
important that we state that the end

32:39.550 --> 32:41.661
result is we want to see this program

32:41.661 --> 32:43.950
succeed . And the purpose of oversight

32:44.440 --> 32:48.020
is to ultimately get to that end on .

32:48.020 --> 32:51.220
And there are some glimpse in the road

32:51.220 --> 32:53.442
here , so to speak . We need to address

32:53.442 --> 32:55.664
those issues , but we want to thank you

32:55.664 --> 32:57.553
for your work and acknowledge the

32:57.553 --> 33:00.020
purpose of oversight is to get some of

33:00.020 --> 33:02.187
these issues resolved . So I just want

33:02.187 --> 33:04.353
that on record . Let me ask you , Miss

33:04.353 --> 33:08.180
Lord , within that context , a

33:08.180 --> 33:10.347
lot of the argument is that we need to

33:10.347 --> 33:13.120
see Lockheed write a check on

33:14.310 --> 33:15.850
Go from that perspective .

33:16.030 --> 33:18.308
Unfortunately , if that were to happen ,

33:18.308 --> 33:20.086
the check just ends up going to

33:20.086 --> 33:21.974
Treasury and it does not help the

33:21.974 --> 33:24.030
program . It doesn't help anything .

33:24.030 --> 33:26.141
Are there other forms of compensation

33:26.210 --> 33:28.080
that might be more beneficial ?

33:28.540 --> 33:31.980
Absolutely . We're now negotiating the

33:31.990 --> 33:35.100
next annual sustainment contract and

33:35.100 --> 33:37.930
the two year options . After that , we

33:37.930 --> 33:40.097
could very well look for consideration

33:40.097 --> 33:43.460
in that contract . Okay , so there are

33:43.460 --> 33:45.627
other options here , and I think those

33:45.627 --> 33:47.849
other options need to be on the table .

33:47.849 --> 33:49.904
They need to be considered . I would

33:49.904 --> 33:52.127
also . I do have another concern that I

33:52.127 --> 33:55.850
want to bring up for RG Hole and

33:56.460 --> 33:58.780
let me just say as I understand this ,

33:58.780 --> 34:02.750
we've got about 353 of these jets that

34:02.750 --> 34:06.050
have been built out of out of about 500

34:06.320 --> 34:09.430
since 2015 and yet

34:10.420 --> 34:12.642
ballpark of a trillion dollars has been

34:12.642 --> 34:14.753
spent on operations and sustainment .

34:14.753 --> 34:16.976
Now I just did a little math that comes

34:16.976 --> 34:20.780
to $566 million per plane

34:21.300 --> 34:24.150
per year . That is a staggering amount

34:24.150 --> 34:26.039
to me if we're talking a trillion

34:26.039 --> 34:29.050
dollars in five years for these planes ,

34:29.540 --> 34:33.230
Um , again , that's just my math . But

34:33.230 --> 34:35.710
let's can I get some clarification on

34:35.710 --> 34:38.650
it ? So we're gonna have to go back and

34:38.660 --> 34:40.771
help help you with the math . I don't

34:40.771 --> 34:43.370
understand where the , uh , trillion

34:43.370 --> 34:45.481
dollars over the last five year quote

34:45.481 --> 34:47.481
came from . I don't understand that

34:47.481 --> 34:49.481
number . The most recent life cycle

34:49.481 --> 34:51.592
cost estimate for the entirety of the

34:51.592 --> 34:53.814
program over 60 years is 1.6 trillion .

34:53.814 --> 34:55.870
So I find it hard to believe that we

34:55.870 --> 34:57.926
spent a trillion dollars in the last

34:57.926 --> 35:00.259
five where that figure is out . In fact ,

35:00.259 --> 35:02.930
the selected acquisition report

35:02.930 --> 35:05.620
actually didn't . I don't recall seeing

35:05.620 --> 35:09.050
that number , but they did say that the

35:09.060 --> 35:11.360
amount of spending now going per year

35:11.360 --> 35:14.480
per plane is going to strange future

35:14.480 --> 35:16.830
service , operation and sustainment . I

35:16.830 --> 35:19.210
mean , so whatever the actual cost is ,

35:19.210 --> 35:22.760
this is une enormously expensive

35:22.870 --> 35:25.870
program here on , So I want to know

35:25.870 --> 35:29.000
kind of how does the annual onus calls

35:29.600 --> 35:31.767
compared to other fighter jet programs

35:31.767 --> 35:35.090
in the past ? So I can't speak

35:35.090 --> 35:37.257
specifically to the onus cost of other

35:37.257 --> 35:39.479
fighters had programs . But I know that

35:39.479 --> 35:41.534
we're aggressively targeting getting

35:41.534 --> 35:44.000
our when its costs to $25,000 per

35:44.000 --> 35:46.680
flight hour by F Y . 25 . That's our

35:46.690 --> 35:49.620
That is a that is a stretch goal that

35:49.620 --> 35:51.787
I'm work . So are we . Are we training

35:51.787 --> 35:54.064
in that direction or retraining ? Teoh ,

35:54.064 --> 35:56.398
Call savings . We are what we're making .

35:56.398 --> 35:58.509
We're making deliberate progress . To

35:58.509 --> 36:02.160
get to 25 by 25 will be a huge if you

36:02.160 --> 36:04.216
could will revise some comparison of

36:04.216 --> 36:06.470
past programs to where we are now as

36:06.470 --> 36:08.526
well as the goal . Goals are great ,

36:08.526 --> 36:10.692
but I don't know it with the trends to

36:10.692 --> 36:12.803
get to those goals . Excuse me . That

36:12.803 --> 36:14.914
should approach the fourth generation

36:14.914 --> 36:16.914
stained costs . That was the way we

36:16.914 --> 36:19.940
derived the target of $25,000 per

36:19.940 --> 36:22.330
flight hour . Okay , I would like if

36:22.330 --> 36:24.497
you could provide that to me . I would

36:24.497 --> 36:26.719
appreciate that . Miss Lord , let me go

36:26.719 --> 36:28.274
with you . And I appreciate

36:28.274 --> 36:30.386
conversations we've had in the past .

36:30.386 --> 36:33.040
We've got problems with the Alice

36:33.430 --> 36:37.290
the system transfer to the Odin

36:37.290 --> 36:39.123
system . Can you kind of walk us

36:39.123 --> 36:41.960
through some of the expectations of of

36:41.970 --> 36:44.960
Odin and how this is going toe play out .

36:45.140 --> 36:47.540
Absolutely . First of all , Odin is

36:47.540 --> 36:50.540
going to be deployed on much more

36:50.540 --> 36:53.130
modern hardware . So , for instance ,

36:53.140 --> 36:55.500
the Alice system . Today , for one

36:55.500 --> 36:59.040
system you have about £891 of hardware

36:59.200 --> 37:01.311
for Odin . You're going toe only have

37:01.311 --> 37:03.220
about £50 of hardware . So the

37:03.230 --> 37:05.563
footprints very different . And in fact ,

37:05.563 --> 37:08.000
as we move towards the first deployment

37:08.010 --> 37:11.790
of Oden in September 2021 an interim

37:11.790 --> 37:14.410
step is this fault . Actually . Move

37:14.420 --> 37:16.700
Alice onto the new hardware as the

37:16.710 --> 37:19.610
first step we will own all of the data

37:19.610 --> 37:21.760
writes in the government . For Oden

37:21.770 --> 37:24.270
versus Alice , it is going to be

37:24.270 --> 37:26.650
deployed in the cloud . It is being

37:26.650 --> 37:29.530
developed using requirements in large

37:29.530 --> 37:32.050
part from the actual maintainers . So ,

37:32.050 --> 37:34.290
for instance , I was on the phone

37:34.290 --> 37:37.120
yesterday with the maintenance unit ,

37:37.130 --> 37:39.970
leads at five different locations ,

37:40.090 --> 37:42.470
making sure that their voice had been

37:42.480 --> 37:45.310
heard by the actual team doing the

37:45.310 --> 37:48.370
coding for Oden . We also as opposed to

37:48.370 --> 37:51.730
using the old waterfall software

37:51.730 --> 37:53.910
development tack techniques . We're

37:53.910 --> 37:57.330
using agile and def sec ops to do that .

37:57.330 --> 37:59.950
So we are in essence coding every night .

38:00.010 --> 38:01.980
I'm sorry , coating every day and

38:01.980 --> 38:04.900
testing every night . We have delivery

38:04.900 --> 38:07.210
bals from the team , the government and

38:07.220 --> 38:10.170
industry team every single day , so we

38:10.170 --> 38:12.300
can measure those deliverables and we

38:12.300 --> 38:14.411
can measure them against the baseline

38:14.411 --> 38:16.189
requirements . So a very , very

38:16.189 --> 38:18.810
different system than Alice is . Okay .

38:18.810 --> 38:20.866
Thank you , Madam Chair , I'll yield

38:20.866 --> 38:23.790
back . But I do want to just say Teoh ,

38:24.030 --> 38:26.030
Mr . Pick , I didn't have some more

38:26.030 --> 38:28.197
questions . Particularly that I'd like

38:28.197 --> 38:30.720
to get some answers for specific to

38:31.010 --> 38:33.200
modified training . That we're seeing

38:33.200 --> 38:35.540
it Hill and Luke Air Force Base is and

38:35.540 --> 38:37.762
why that's happening . So I'll get with

38:37.762 --> 38:39.762
you later on that . But thank you ,

38:39.762 --> 38:41.818
Madam Chair , are you Absolutely . I

38:41.818 --> 38:43.929
thank the gentleman and now recognize

38:43.929 --> 38:45.873
representative Wasserman Schultz .

38:46.620 --> 38:49.680
Thank you , Madam Chair . I want toe

38:50.270 --> 38:54.150
ask my questions through a fiscal

38:54.150 --> 38:56.030
lens at the senior member of the

38:56.040 --> 38:58.180
Appropriations Committee because I'm

38:58.190 --> 39:01.530
deeply concerned about what I'm hearing

39:01.540 --> 39:04.030
and seeing the waste in this management

39:04.030 --> 39:07.750
of federal dollars is really paramount

39:07.760 --> 39:09.649
here . There have to be oversight

39:09.649 --> 39:11.704
mechanisms in place to keep costs in

39:11.704 --> 39:13.871
check as D o . D . And Lockheed Martin

39:13.871 --> 39:15.927
and we're going forward on replacing

39:15.927 --> 39:18.149
Alice , which is actually held the main

39:18.149 --> 39:20.427
at 35 software system . So , Miss Lord ,

39:20.427 --> 39:23.620
in 2016 the Defense Department told G a .

39:23.620 --> 39:25.564
O that the Alice Stock West system

39:25.564 --> 39:27.780
would cost an estimated $17 billion .

39:28.150 --> 39:30.940
And Geo found that estimate quote not

39:30.950 --> 39:33.117
really credible , since the department

39:33.117 --> 39:35.283
hadn't formed a full analysis of these

39:35.283 --> 39:37.470
costs . What is the ODIs ? Current

39:37.470 --> 39:39.470
estimate of how much money has been

39:39.470 --> 39:42.870
spent on Alice ? We're spending on

39:42.880 --> 39:45.650
on Oden the same amount that we're

39:45.650 --> 39:48.170
spending on Alice . And if you give me

39:48.170 --> 39:51.950
a moment here , I have the amount over

39:51.950 --> 39:55.260
the next five years . 547 million for

39:55.260 --> 39:58.450
the next five years . But the

39:58.460 --> 39:59.320
lieutenant of

40:05.810 --> 40:08.320
what has already didn't spend on Alex

40:08.410 --> 40:10.920
I'm not Afghani broke . Lost some car .

40:13.450 --> 40:15.617
We don't have that right here , but we

40:15.617 --> 40:17.561
can certainly get that to you very

40:17.561 --> 40:21.060
shortly . Okay , suffice it to say ,

40:21.500 --> 40:24.130
is it more than $17 million ?

40:27.100 --> 40:29.580
I don't believe so . That seems like a

40:29.580 --> 40:31.802
very large number , but we can get that

40:31.802 --> 40:35.060
for your short . Respectfully . That

40:35.070 --> 40:37.290
left the amount that that the Defense

40:37.290 --> 40:39.600
Department told Geo that the Alice

40:39.600 --> 40:41.760
software system would cost , and that

40:41.760 --> 40:43.820
was deemed not really incredible .

40:43.830 --> 40:45.552
because the department had not

40:45.552 --> 40:47.552
performed the full analysis . So my

40:47.552 --> 40:49.663
suspicion is that it's cost more than

40:49.663 --> 40:51.330
that already , and now you're

40:51.330 --> 40:53.590
projecting another $547 billion .

40:53.950 --> 40:56.420
Earlier this month , on July 10 the

40:56.420 --> 40:58.309
department announced it would pay

40:58.309 --> 41:00.531
Lockheed Martin 87 a half $1,000,000 to

41:00.531 --> 41:02.600
begin the development with Odin and

41:02.600 --> 41:05.190
start the transition from Alice . What

41:05.190 --> 41:07.270
will I want to ask you ? A series of

41:07.280 --> 41:09.690
questions at once . And then you answer

41:09.690 --> 41:12.360
those . What will that initial work by

41:12.580 --> 41:15.190
blocking Martin include , And the 87 a

41:15.200 --> 41:17.700
half $1,000,000 contract transition

41:17.700 --> 41:20.033
from Alice is really only the beginning .

41:20.250 --> 41:23.510
You expect I would imagine Odin cost a

41:23.510 --> 41:25.621
lot more than that . You just said it

41:25.621 --> 41:27.788
would be $547 million . And since this

41:27.788 --> 41:29.788
program has had crossed significant

41:29.788 --> 41:32.040
cost overruns in the past , how do you

41:32.040 --> 41:34.151
plan to ensure that the costs of Odin

41:34.151 --> 41:37.970
is not excesses ? The

41:37.970 --> 41:41.050
way Odin is being contract ID for is

41:41.050 --> 41:43.300
very different than what we've done in

41:43.300 --> 41:45.530
the past were actually defining the

41:45.530 --> 41:48.810
architecture and releasing app by app .

41:48.860 --> 41:51.670
We just released the first contract to

41:51.670 --> 41:55.640
Lockheed Martin in July and the work is

41:55.640 --> 41:58.300
actually being done in a government

41:58.310 --> 42:01.710
owned cloud environment . On we have

42:01.710 --> 42:04.330
total visibility toe what is delivered

42:04.330 --> 42:08.280
every day . Okay , if I can ask you to

42:08.280 --> 42:10.058
pause for a moment , my initial

42:10.058 --> 42:12.169
question was the 87 a half $1,000,000

42:12.169 --> 42:14.336
contract transition from Alice is just

42:14.336 --> 42:16.520
the beginning . You expected to cost

42:16.530 --> 42:19.310
more than that ? Go to . And what will

42:19.520 --> 42:21.853
the initial work by Lockheed Martin and ,

42:23.200 --> 42:25.920
well , we have about 550 million over

42:25.920 --> 42:29.010
the next five years . And the initial

42:29.010 --> 42:32.520
work is a series of codings done by app .

42:32.530 --> 42:34.363
But I'm gonna pass to login it ,

42:34.363 --> 42:36.363
Lieutenant General Thick . For more

42:36.363 --> 42:38.363
specifics , man , that's accurate .

42:38.363 --> 42:40.474
Lockheed Martin will be coating three

42:40.474 --> 42:43.460
specific applications in four . Odin on

42:43.460 --> 42:45.571
This is the early work associate with

42:45.571 --> 42:49.490
those APS . General , do you think the

42:49.490 --> 42:51.657
D . O . D should move forward with any

42:51.657 --> 42:53.823
of the design plan without knowing how

42:53.823 --> 42:55.990
much the plan or any component of that

42:55.990 --> 42:56.990
friend cost

43:00.090 --> 43:02.270
man ? My team continues to refine the

43:02.270 --> 43:05.020
cost estimate for Alice and Odin moving

43:05.020 --> 43:08.090
forward . The $547 million was money

43:08.090 --> 43:09.868
that had been pretty previously

43:09.868 --> 43:11.979
allocated to an Alice Re architecture

43:11.979 --> 43:14.090
effort . We believe that we can fully

43:14.140 --> 43:16.540
in Stan . She ate Oden over the course

43:16.540 --> 43:18.484
of the next five years within that

43:18.484 --> 43:20.596
budgetary cap . But we know that over

43:20.596 --> 43:22.818
the course of the 50 years remaining in

43:22.818 --> 43:24.984
the program that to remain viable , we

43:24.984 --> 43:27.020
will need to continue to update the

43:27.020 --> 43:29.390
software as issues were found as the

43:29.390 --> 43:31.390
program evolves and its maintenance

43:31.390 --> 43:33.501
practices change . So I do anticipate

43:33.501 --> 43:35.668
more funds will be required beyond the

43:35.668 --> 43:38.640
fighting . Dios , March 2020 report

43:38.640 --> 43:40.320
recommended that his Lord and

43:40.320 --> 43:42.650
consultation with you general develop a

43:42.650 --> 43:45.790
detailed strategy this more , um , any

43:45.790 --> 43:49.120
comments on my question about

43:49.410 --> 43:52.960
the uncertainty that is looming on on

43:52.960 --> 43:54.904
how much this is going to cost the

43:54.904 --> 43:56.980
redesign of Alice that includes the

43:56.980 --> 43:59.147
cost of redesigning the whole system ?

43:59.740 --> 44:03.600
Well , we plan to have Odin deployed

44:03.760 --> 44:07.540
fully by December . I'm sorry . The

44:07.540 --> 44:09.600
question has been is more Oh ,

44:11.490 --> 44:14.950
thank you . Yes , we way . Share your

44:14.950 --> 44:17.120
concern about the ability to tread a .

44:17.250 --> 44:19.700
The overall approach on the strategy

44:19.700 --> 44:21.867
for implementing over in this world is

44:21.867 --> 44:24.210
a cost associated with that . Uh oh .

44:24.210 --> 44:26.154
It is a relatively new initiatives

44:26.154 --> 44:28.377
designed replaced something that's been

44:28.377 --> 44:30.488
around for almost two years . They're

44:30.488 --> 44:32.654
going to be significant challenges and

44:32.654 --> 44:32.500
significant costs associated with doing

44:32.500 --> 44:34.556
that . And it's important that it be

44:34.556 --> 44:36.778
done right and be done in . And it cost

44:36.778 --> 44:39.111
effectively . Thank you , madam . Chair ,

44:39.111 --> 44:41.940
you back the balance of my time . Thank

44:41.940 --> 44:44.630
the lady for her questions and we now

44:44.630 --> 44:46.290
represent now . Recognize

44:46.290 --> 44:47.690
Representative Norman .

44:50.980 --> 44:54.420
Thank you , Madam Chairman . Inspector

44:54.430 --> 44:57.830
Hole . In your testimony , you stated

44:57.830 --> 45:00.190
the quote . While a missing ill does

45:00.190 --> 45:02.301
not mean a part is defective , it can

45:02.301 --> 45:04.310
create life and safety concerns for

45:04.310 --> 45:07.450
aircrews . Yes , you also state that

45:07.460 --> 45:09.450
quote the D . O D's use of local

45:09.450 --> 45:11.910
guidance and and hot manual processes

45:12.290 --> 45:14.850
allow aircraft flying complete missions

45:14.860 --> 45:16.916
instead of the deal de grounding the

45:16.916 --> 45:19.170
aircraft . This suggested me that if

45:19.170 --> 45:20.980
anyone put lives at risk gives

45:20.980 --> 45:23.370
individuals at the d . O d . Not

45:23.370 --> 45:26.010
Lockheed Martin . Is this your opinion ?

45:27.590 --> 45:30.460
The staff , the maintainers and the

45:30.470 --> 45:32.414
commanders at the depot had a very

45:32.414 --> 45:34.637
difficult decision . They either had to

45:34.637 --> 45:36.859
conduct a work around to get parts onto

45:36.859 --> 45:38.859
the aircraft so they could continue

45:38.859 --> 45:41.081
their training and operational missions

45:41.081 --> 45:43.081
or they had to quarantine apart and

45:43.081 --> 45:45.303
potentially impact that ability . So we

45:45.303 --> 45:49.080
although you said earlier that for two

45:49.080 --> 45:51.880
quality and safety we were aware of

45:51.880 --> 45:55.240
apart . That was a seat survival kit

45:55.250 --> 45:58.820
assembly that was the is a critical

45:58.820 --> 46:02.020
safety item that was flown on and

46:02.020 --> 46:04.131
tracked through manual processes such

46:04.131 --> 46:07.530
as a whiteboard . Thank you . General

46:07.530 --> 46:10.660
fig deals pose a safety

46:11.070 --> 46:13.720
concern or is it a risk ? In your

46:13.720 --> 46:17.630
opinion ? So , in my

46:17.630 --> 46:19.060
opinion , um ,

46:24.050 --> 46:26.850
it the answer is it depends . There are

46:26.850 --> 46:29.072
some parts that are safety critical and

46:29.072 --> 46:31.294
our life limited . And those parts have

46:31.294 --> 46:34.220
eels , and those eels must be in place

46:34.220 --> 46:36.280
for that part to be installed on

46:36.280 --> 46:38.502
aircraft . So in those cases , yes , it

46:38.502 --> 46:41.350
is safety critical for other parts who

46:41.350 --> 46:43.430
also have eels . This parts are not

46:43.430 --> 46:45.486
safety critical . And this parts are

46:45.486 --> 46:47.486
not life limited . It's those parts

46:47.486 --> 46:49.708
were actually looking at to try to find

46:49.708 --> 46:51.874
a way to remove the requirement for an

46:51.874 --> 46:54.041
eel so that this discussion of deal or

46:54.041 --> 46:57.360
no wheel comes off the table . Does

46:57.360 --> 46:59.460
that make sense ? Can you give an

46:59.460 --> 47:02.700
example of a part that demonstrate what

47:02.700 --> 47:05.270
you're talking about ? I don't have a

47:05.270 --> 47:07.860
specific part , number or nomenclature

47:08.650 --> 47:12.120
for you , but I know that a czar right

47:12.120 --> 47:14.287
now we're looking at eliminating close

47:14.287 --> 47:17.320
to 600 of them across the airplane that

47:17.320 --> 47:19.630
have heels . But they're not safety

47:19.630 --> 47:21.908
critical . Nor they life limited parts .

47:21.908 --> 47:24.720
So of the 1000 roughly 600 . Okay , so

47:24.720 --> 47:27.880
it is a distinction . Yes , sir , Miss

47:27.880 --> 47:30.620
Lord . And I guess General Pickles .

47:30.620 --> 47:33.310
Well , how quickly will we get the ode

47:33.310 --> 47:35.630
ei and operational ? And what is the

47:35.630 --> 47:38.450
estimated calls to develop and deploy

47:38.520 --> 47:42.070
the D I A n ? So the initial delivery

47:42.070 --> 47:45.520
of the system is targeted for Sept 2021 .

47:45.730 --> 47:49.330
And to develop it will be several

47:49.330 --> 47:51.386
$100 million over the next couple of

47:51.386 --> 47:55.260
years and then a couple $100 million

47:55.270 --> 47:58.040
for the few years after that to

47:58.050 --> 48:01.670
continue that deployment . Yeah ,

48:02.000 --> 48:04.690
General . So we intend to declare what

48:04.690 --> 48:06.968
we call initial operational capability ,

48:06.968 --> 48:09.190
which is the capability at one squadron

48:09.370 --> 48:12.660
in September of 2021 by by December of

48:12.660 --> 48:15.510
2022 . Our intent is to have Odin

48:15.510 --> 48:17.920
spread across the entire fleet with the

48:17.920 --> 48:19.809
exception of units that might not

48:19.809 --> 48:21.864
decide to transition because they're

48:21.880 --> 48:24.060
currently deployed or otherwise . Need

48:24.060 --> 48:26.060
to continue to use the legacy Alice

48:26.060 --> 48:28.060
system . We'll get those as soon as

48:28.060 --> 48:30.430
operational constraints allow . Thank

48:30.430 --> 48:32.208
you . The storm Look . What has

48:32.208 --> 48:34.430
Lockheed Martin done to ensure that the

48:34.430 --> 48:37.400
F 35 sustainment meets the warfighter

48:37.400 --> 48:41.250
needs ? Congressman ? There's

48:41.250 --> 48:44.080
several avenues relative to sustainment .

48:44.090 --> 48:46.423
Eso we have been working on reliability ,

48:46.423 --> 48:48.590
maintain ability , improvements on the

48:48.590 --> 48:50.423
platform . We've been working to

48:50.423 --> 48:52.646
improve the prognostic system on the on

48:52.646 --> 48:54.812
the platform . We have gone advance of

48:54.812 --> 48:56.646
contract requirements to procure

48:56.646 --> 48:58.646
material to ensure that we have the

48:58.646 --> 49:00.646
spare parts when the customer needs

49:00.646 --> 49:02.590
them . There's a several different

49:02.590 --> 49:04.701
aspects We've been working to improve

49:04.701 --> 49:07.250
the Alice system . Eso There's many

49:07.250 --> 49:09.417
different levers across the enterprise

49:09.417 --> 49:11.530
that we apply to improve sustainment

49:11.530 --> 49:14.970
performance on that 35 . Well , thank

49:14.970 --> 49:17.110
you . Think like Congressman Heist

49:17.120 --> 49:19.990
mentioned that the what we need to be

49:19.990 --> 49:22.790
doing is looking at the to solve the

49:22.790 --> 49:26.410
issue . No question about the money has

49:26.410 --> 49:29.020
come up to be paid back , but also the

49:29.020 --> 49:31.187
question , in fact , that that doesn't

49:31.187 --> 49:33.660
solve any problems . Lucky Martin does

49:33.660 --> 49:35.716
a great job of producing airplanes ,

49:35.970 --> 49:37.970
and I think we'll continue to , and

49:37.970 --> 49:40.137
we're trying to find any problems that

49:40.137 --> 49:42.170
exist . You all trying to find a

49:42.510 --> 49:46.170
solution to him ? Um , amount of time

49:46.180 --> 49:50.180
you back . Thank you , gentlemen . And

49:50.180 --> 49:52.640
now recognize a Congress person .

49:52.640 --> 49:56.450
Stupid is on

49:56.450 --> 49:57.310
line . Okay ,

50:00.860 --> 50:03.140
He was online . Congressman , are you

50:03.150 --> 50:07.010
with us ? We're going to

50:07.010 --> 50:09.840
go to Congress Member Keller as we wait

50:09.840 --> 50:12.010
for Mr Steuby . Okay . Congress Member

50:12.010 --> 50:15.190
Keller . Thank you , Madam Chair . And

50:15.200 --> 50:17.680
I would like to think the Panelists for

50:17.680 --> 50:19.680
being here today or the witnesses a

50:19.680 --> 50:21.680
couple questions that I had , but I

50:21.680 --> 50:23.569
want to sort of follow up on some

50:23.569 --> 50:25.402
questions that my colleague from

50:25.402 --> 50:27.513
Georgia was asking regarding the cost

50:27.513 --> 50:30.700
per hour off flight . Our is that you

50:30.700 --> 50:34.130
say by 2025 we want to get to $25,000

50:34.130 --> 50:37.310
per flight hour . So we consider that a

50:37.310 --> 50:39.570
stretch goal yesterday . What is the

50:39.570 --> 50:43.130
current cost ? I believe current cost

50:43.130 --> 50:45.300
replied hours on the order of $35,000

50:45.330 --> 50:48.490
later . Okay . And so there's a

50:48.500 --> 50:52.050
schedule each year to get to that . So

50:52.050 --> 50:54.272
I mentioned in my opening comments that

50:54.272 --> 50:56.439
we've really We've pivoted the program

50:56.439 --> 50:58.606
office into lines of effort associated

50:58.606 --> 51:02.360
with five different divisions

51:02.920 --> 51:04.930
to include the air vehicle , the

51:04.930 --> 51:07.152
engines , the maintenance systems , the

51:07.152 --> 51:09.374
comment , data systems and the training

51:09.374 --> 51:11.486
systems . I've allocated cost savings

51:11.486 --> 51:13.541
targets to each one of those offices

51:13.541 --> 51:15.763
that they need to pursue to get to that

51:15.763 --> 51:17.763
overall cost per flying hour . Call

51:17.820 --> 51:20.300
Andi . When did we start this school or

51:20.300 --> 51:22.133
what was school established ? We

51:22.133 --> 51:24.244
started to begin work on it . So that

51:24.244 --> 51:26.820
25 by 25 goal first , I think it's the

51:27.310 --> 51:29.254
hit the program office . About two

51:29.254 --> 51:31.477
years ago , we started to talk about it

51:31.477 --> 51:33.254
on and move the program in that

51:33.254 --> 51:35.477
direction , looking holistically across

51:35.477 --> 51:37.400
a number of initiatives from

51:37.410 --> 51:39.132
principally from a sustainment

51:39.132 --> 51:41.132
perspective but also respecting the

51:41.132 --> 51:42.966
fact that development influences

51:42.966 --> 51:45.132
sustainment costs as well , looking at

51:45.132 --> 51:47.299
those opportunities . So two years ago

51:47.299 --> 51:49.410
was it at $35,000 a flight ? Our What

51:49.410 --> 51:51.632
was it when you started ? It was it was

51:51.632 --> 51:53.688
higher . I don't know the number off

51:53.688 --> 51:53.500
the top of my head , so we don't know

51:53.500 --> 51:55.611
what we gained . Or could we find out

51:55.611 --> 51:57.611
what we gain ever two years to make

51:57.611 --> 51:59.833
sure we're on track of him . Strangle ,

51:59.833 --> 52:01.944
I realize , is a stretch goal , but I

52:01.944 --> 52:01.910
think it's important to know where we

52:01.910 --> 52:03.910
are . Yes , so if we could get that

52:03.910 --> 52:06.310
information and appreciate it , the

52:06.320 --> 52:08.487
other thing I wanted to sort of follow

52:08.487 --> 52:10.800
up on we all know that it's important ,

52:10.800 --> 52:12.744
important program and looking what

52:12.744 --> 52:14.911
we're doing . But I want to go back to

52:14.911 --> 52:16.800
the eels and we know there's been

52:16.800 --> 52:18.911
reported issues , and I guess this is

52:18.911 --> 52:21.133
before Miss Lord , there's a you know ,

52:21.133 --> 52:23.244
issues associated with the electronic

52:23.390 --> 52:25.780
equipment logs and some of the data

52:25.790 --> 52:28.110
inaccuracies is due to human interface ,

52:28.120 --> 52:30.920
and you know some of those items and we

52:30.920 --> 52:33.360
know that's gonna happen no matter what

52:33.360 --> 52:35.527
you're doing , when you're when you're

52:35.527 --> 52:37.416
dealing with that , are there any

52:37.416 --> 52:39.471
strategies that have been identified

52:39.471 --> 52:41.638
that might help cut down on the manual

52:41.638 --> 52:43.804
in putting of data so that there might

52:43.804 --> 52:45.860
be accuracy any kind of reducing the

52:45.860 --> 52:47.916
human interface ? Absolutely . There

52:47.916 --> 52:50.260
are two different pieces to that . One

52:50.270 --> 52:53.430
is Alice has been relatively user

52:53.440 --> 52:55.580
unfriendly , a lot of training to get

52:55.730 --> 52:57.952
to be able to learn how to use it . Our

52:57.952 --> 53:00.490
latest release helps that significantly ,

53:00.610 --> 53:03.940
however , in Odin , what we're doing is

53:03.940 --> 53:06.162
making sure it's much more automated in

53:06.162 --> 53:08.860
terms of data feeds and also prompting

53:08.860 --> 53:11.850
the user input . So those two things

53:11.850 --> 53:14.110
should be very helpful , and that

53:14.120 --> 53:16.560
that's Experian gonna be having this

53:16.570 --> 53:18.570
totally implemented , or is there a

53:18.570 --> 53:20.681
phase in and that we can see how this

53:20.681 --> 53:22.903
is working . How soon do you anticipate

53:22.903 --> 53:24.903
being ableto to see the benefits of

53:24.903 --> 53:27.160
this ? We will have the first system

53:27.160 --> 53:30.480
deployed in September of 2021 . A lot

53:30.480 --> 53:33.010
of testing will go on before that point

53:33.010 --> 53:34.750
in time . And then it will be

53:34.750 --> 53:36.990
throughout the fleet by December of

53:37.000 --> 53:40.140
2022 except for units that might be

53:40.140 --> 53:42.140
deployed on aircraft carriers , for

53:42.140 --> 53:44.307
instance , or in very remote , austere

53:44.307 --> 53:47.550
areas . Okay , Uh , also , there's been

53:47.550 --> 53:50.750
a lot of talk about different things ,

53:50.750 --> 53:52.750
but can you speak to actions ? That

53:52.750 --> 53:54.694
department is taken in response to

53:54.694 --> 53:57.580
Section 1 92 of the fiscal 2020 and D A .

53:57.690 --> 53:59.801
Related to the relief from failure to

53:59.801 --> 54:02.490
deliver ready for issue spare ports ?

54:02.820 --> 54:05.210
Absolutely . What we have done is put a

54:05.210 --> 54:07.730
whole team together to look at that .

54:07.740 --> 54:09.730
We've worked with the contractor .

54:09.800 --> 54:12.130
We've really gone to bet back to look

54:12.130 --> 54:14.241
at what's the root cause ? What's the

54:14.241 --> 54:16.186
fundamental issue ? And we believe

54:16.186 --> 54:18.408
Although there are many , many issues ,

54:18.408 --> 54:20.574
it fundamentally comes down to Alice ,

54:20.574 --> 54:22.910
and that's part of what has really

54:22.910 --> 54:25.180
incentivized us to accelerate to the

54:25.180 --> 54:27.347
Odin transition . Okay , so when we're

54:27.347 --> 54:29.569
talking about Alice and the issues were

54:29.569 --> 54:31.513
having have these been issues that

54:31.513 --> 54:33.624
we've experienced since the beginning

54:33.624 --> 54:35.569
of the implementation of the Alice

54:35.569 --> 54:39.040
program ? Yes . So ? So over time , we

54:39.040 --> 54:42.240
should When we when we look at moving

54:42.240 --> 54:44.129
away from that , we should not be

54:44.129 --> 54:46.240
repeating the same the same issues or

54:46.240 --> 54:48.184
no , we should not . And in fact ,

54:48.184 --> 54:50.240
there actually have been large gains

54:50.240 --> 54:52.129
made with Alice . There have been

54:52.129 --> 54:54.296
multiple releases , and if you talk to

54:54.296 --> 54:56.462
the maintenance units , they will tell

54:56.462 --> 54:59.440
you that particularly 3.5 dot two that

54:59.450 --> 55:01.880
we just put out has made a lot of

55:01.890 --> 55:04.020
difference . But still , it's not a

55:04.020 --> 55:06.131
streamlined as it could be . It's not

55:06.131 --> 55:08.570
as easy to use . So when did we begin

55:08.570 --> 55:10.348
using Alice ? If I can ask that

55:10.348 --> 55:13.000
question , Oden will start in 2021 . We

55:13.000 --> 55:15.800
have an updated version off Alice that

55:15.800 --> 55:17.911
just went out about a month ago . But

55:17.911 --> 55:19.911
when did the department start using

55:19.911 --> 55:23.800
Alice back in 2012 ? I defer to

55:23.800 --> 55:27.090
the Prior to that . Earlier I said

55:27.090 --> 55:29.360
2006 . I'll confirm , sir , for

55:29.360 --> 55:31.138
reference when we started out ,

55:31.138 --> 55:33.360
actually operationally using . I'm just

55:33.360 --> 55:35.304
years . I'm just sort of cures out

55:35.304 --> 55:37.670
quickly weaken implement procedures .

55:37.670 --> 55:39.892
And if it's taken us this long , I want

55:39.892 --> 55:41.892
to make sure that when we go over ,

55:41.892 --> 55:43.948
though , you know when we transition

55:43.948 --> 55:43.730
over that it doesn't take us that

55:43.740 --> 55:45.962
period of time . So that would actually

55:45.962 --> 55:48.184
have the benefit in this case with Odin

55:48.184 --> 55:50.351
of understanding what we don't like on

55:50.351 --> 55:53.130
and using that to build what we do . So ,

55:53.130 --> 55:55.241
as the team collects metrics from the

55:55.241 --> 55:57.352
users associated with the performance

55:57.352 --> 55:59.519
of Alice were using that to inform the

55:59.519 --> 56:01.630
capability needs statement associated

56:01.630 --> 56:03.630
with owed . And so we have a better

56:03.630 --> 56:05.408
idea to the point that was made

56:05.408 --> 56:07.408
previously . Of what ? Of what good

56:07.408 --> 56:09.630
looks like and what we really need Odin

56:09.630 --> 56:11.741
to look like from a maintainers and a

56:11.741 --> 56:11.740
warfighters perspective . And we're

56:11.740 --> 56:13.796
driving that train this time . We're

56:13.796 --> 56:16.018
not leaving it up to somebody else . So

56:16.018 --> 56:18.073
in other words , we've we've learned

56:18.073 --> 56:18.070
from our past history of things we've

56:18.070 --> 56:20.237
done inappropriately to make sure that

56:20.237 --> 56:22.570
we don't repeat the same failures . Yes ,

56:22.570 --> 56:25.610
sir . Thank you for your back . Thank

56:25.620 --> 56:28.050
thank you very much . I now recognize

56:28.050 --> 56:31.820
Representative Talib and she is remote

56:33.780 --> 56:36.280
with us . Thank you . So great I am .

56:36.280 --> 56:38.391
Can you hear me , OK ? Yes , we can .

56:39.120 --> 56:41.342
Oh , thank you , Chairwoman . Thank you

56:41.342 --> 56:43.453
for allowing me to serve my residents

56:43.453 --> 56:45.610
in the state environments on . I just

56:45.610 --> 56:48.210
want to appreciate everyone being

56:48.210 --> 56:50.510
available to us . I know , and I

56:50.510 --> 56:52.732
apologize that some of this was asked ,

56:52.732 --> 56:54.732
but I think it's really important ,

56:54.732 --> 56:56.788
especially these are things that I'm

56:56.788 --> 56:58.899
hearing from my community . But Onley

56:58.899 --> 57:01.066
About two days ago , the House adopted

57:01.066 --> 57:03.232
my amendment to the N D . A focused on

57:03.232 --> 57:05.177
care for two crew members who have

57:05.177 --> 57:07.450
experienced unexplained psychological

57:07.450 --> 57:10.550
episodes while operating F 35 . So ,

57:10.550 --> 57:13.260
Lieutenant of Think , do you know

57:13.270 --> 57:15.103
what's causing the psychological

57:15.103 --> 57:16.992
episodes ? And again , if you had

57:16.992 --> 57:18.826
answer . But I think it's really

57:18.826 --> 57:21.103
important for folks to understand that .

57:21.103 --> 57:21.060
And then the second question . What has

57:21.530 --> 57:23.641
Department of Defense done to protect

57:23.641 --> 57:25.808
the service members from some of these

57:25.808 --> 57:27.920
safety issues ? So we're working very

57:27.920 --> 57:30.087
closely with the services and with the

57:30.087 --> 57:32.190
medical community to understand each

57:32.190 --> 57:34.134
and every one of the physiological

57:34.134 --> 57:37.150
events that that occurs

57:37.390 --> 57:39.400
we have seen over the course of the

57:39.400 --> 57:41.344
last three years . I think I would

57:41.344 --> 57:43.890
characterize as a decrease in the

57:43.890 --> 57:46.280
occurrence of P E within the F 35

57:46.280 --> 57:48.730
enterprise . But to say there is a

57:48.730 --> 57:51.560
common root cause between all of them .

57:51.680 --> 57:54.840
I think , um , I don't think that we've

57:54.840 --> 57:58.270
come to that to that conclusion at this

57:58.270 --> 58:02.260
time . More more work to go , Miss

58:02.260 --> 58:04.370
Lord , as we know they have 35

58:04.370 --> 58:06.620
sustained a sustainment contracts

58:06.620 --> 58:08.610
included a clause that said the

58:08.610 --> 58:10.721
government may require the contractor

58:10.721 --> 58:12.721
to replace her correct any supplies

58:12.721 --> 58:14.888
that are non conforming at the time of

58:14.888 --> 58:17.450
delivery . So Miss Lord problems with

58:17.450 --> 58:19.394
the electronic logs This is really

58:19.394 --> 58:21.506
important here can happen through the

58:21.506 --> 58:24.680
life cycle of a part . Correct ? Yes .

58:24.690 --> 58:26.579
And that's why we need to look at

58:26.579 --> 58:28.523
contract language and make sure it

58:28.523 --> 58:30.690
reflects the experience that we've had

58:30.710 --> 58:33.420
so that , as you point out at the time

58:33.420 --> 58:36.680
of delivery , is not the entirety of

58:36.680 --> 58:38.569
the time it goes through the eels

58:38.569 --> 58:41.340
system . We have to recognize that well ,

58:41.340 --> 58:43.173
if a problem developed following

58:43.173 --> 58:45.396
delivery , would it be even be possible

58:45.396 --> 58:47.396
for Department of Defense to reject

58:47.396 --> 58:49.451
that spare part ? Or would deal ? Do

58:49.451 --> 58:51.673
you need to keep that part and wait for

58:51.673 --> 58:53.896
lock heads Martin personnel to fix it ?

58:54.520 --> 58:57.720
We have ongoing discussions about those

58:57.720 --> 58:59.970
kinds of issues that if it's after the

58:59.970 --> 59:02.137
point at which we initially accepted ,

59:02.360 --> 59:06.330
that becomes more complicated . Well ,

59:06.330 --> 59:08.780
in order to be cleared for flight at 35

59:08.780 --> 59:11.050
policy states that an aircraft must be

59:11.050 --> 59:13.620
Elektronik Lee complete quote complete

59:13.630 --> 59:16.570
in Alice , meaning that all the

59:16.570 --> 59:18.737
electronic records from each installed

59:18.737 --> 59:20.959
at 35 part must be functioning in Alice

59:21.420 --> 59:24.800
when a part missing its Elektronik log

59:24.940 --> 59:27.107
Alice signals that the aircraft should

59:27.107 --> 59:29.730
be grounded according to Joint Program

59:29.730 --> 59:31.841
office officials quote . This is what

59:31.841 --> 59:34.960
they said . On any given day , over 50%

59:34.970 --> 59:38.440
of the F 35 fleet is flying with non R

59:38.440 --> 59:40.860
F I spare parts . Do you find that

59:40.860 --> 59:44.320
concerning Miss Lord ? I have

59:44.330 --> 59:47.870
faith in our maintenance unit leaders

59:47.880 --> 59:51.290
who look at each part and determine

59:51.290 --> 59:54.540
whether the aircraft is fit to fly

59:54.550 --> 59:56.840
there , well versed in safety and would

59:56.840 --> 01:00:00.100
never make any safety compromises . All

01:00:00.100 --> 01:00:02.156
of that being said , I have faith in

01:00:02.156 --> 01:00:04.350
all of our maintainers . I would like

01:00:04.360 --> 01:00:07.240
our systems to be 100% correct and

01:00:07.240 --> 01:00:09.910
effective . You know what I think the

01:00:09.920 --> 01:00:11.864
American public would agree . Miss

01:00:11.864 --> 01:00:13.960
Mauer . In March , the G L reported

01:00:13.960 --> 01:00:17.070
that it is common for of 35 supply with

01:00:17.070 --> 01:00:19.590
over 20 inaccurate or missing

01:00:19.590 --> 01:00:21.757
electronic records . Even though Alice

01:00:21.757 --> 01:00:23.646
signals that the planes should be

01:00:23.646 --> 01:00:25.701
grounded , so was more briefly . How

01:00:25.701 --> 01:00:27.812
can service members be 100% sure that

01:00:27.812 --> 01:00:29.701
Alice Cygnus are due to defective

01:00:29.701 --> 01:00:31.701
Elektronik logs and not potentially

01:00:31.701 --> 01:00:35.210
dangerous issue within the aircraft ? I

01:00:35.210 --> 01:00:39.040
think that I think what we'll find is

01:00:39.040 --> 01:00:41.430
when we talk to soaps maintainers on on

01:00:41.430 --> 01:00:43.541
the flight line of work on that air .

01:00:43.541 --> 01:00:45.597
Probable fine line Is that there ? I

01:00:45.597 --> 01:00:47.652
agree with Undersecretary Lord um Is

01:00:47.652 --> 01:00:49.819
there doing their level best to ensure

01:00:49.819 --> 01:00:52.041
that the plane but the plane is safe to

01:00:52.041 --> 01:00:54.208
fly ? Having said that when the system

01:00:54.208 --> 01:00:56.041
that was hundreds of millions of

01:00:56.041 --> 01:00:57.930
dollars to develop and boy that's

01:00:57.930 --> 01:01:00.041
designed to help them with the system

01:01:00.041 --> 01:01:02.263
But playing congealing on the fly isn't

01:01:02.263 --> 01:01:04.486
trusted , that's the problem is they're

01:01:04.486 --> 01:01:06.597
using . These cuff records were using

01:01:06.597 --> 01:01:08.819
spreadsheets . It injects another level

01:01:08.819 --> 01:01:10.763
of risk into those decisions . And

01:01:10.763 --> 01:01:12.986
that's where the many reasons why Alice

01:01:12.986 --> 01:01:15.152
needs to be temper well , I think it s

01:01:15.152 --> 01:01:17.152
so essentially our pilots are being

01:01:17.152 --> 01:01:19.208
forced to fly . Aircraft had neither

01:01:19.208 --> 01:01:21.152
the D , o . D . Or Lockheed Martin

01:01:21.152 --> 01:01:23.319
Convey verify 100% state do you know ,

01:01:23.319 --> 01:01:25.597
like trying to clog problems and Alice ,

01:01:25.597 --> 01:01:27.763
coupled with potential for human error

01:01:27.763 --> 01:01:27.180
and work around the tracking ? I I

01:01:27.180 --> 01:01:29.580
simply think it's outrageous that after

01:01:29.590 --> 01:01:31.423
spending millions of dollars and

01:01:31.423 --> 01:01:33.646
thousands of hours of manpower that our

01:01:33.646 --> 01:01:35.701
pilots are still being asked to risk

01:01:35.701 --> 01:01:37.812
their lives because of malfunctioning

01:01:37.812 --> 01:01:39.868
equipment . So in case anything here

01:01:39.868 --> 01:01:41.812
wasn't clear . Thanks . This Now I

01:01:41.812 --> 01:01:44.034
think my chairwoman were agree . Before

01:01:44.034 --> 01:01:46.201
you have blood on your hands , I think

01:01:46.201 --> 01:01:45.630
it's really important that you have

01:01:45.640 --> 01:01:48.410
actual lives . Human beings are behind

01:01:48.410 --> 01:01:50.577
these . Like that we have . We're it's

01:01:50.577 --> 01:01:52.799
our responsibility to make sure they're

01:01:52.799 --> 01:01:55.077
safe . And so , with that , I yield um ,

01:01:55.077 --> 01:01:57.021
the rest of my time . Chairwoman .

01:01:57.021 --> 01:01:59.132
Thank you so much . Thank Thank you .

01:01:59.132 --> 01:02:00.910
So very much for your important

01:02:00.910 --> 01:02:02.743
observations . I'd now like Teoh

01:02:02.743 --> 01:02:04.466
recognize Congressman Steuby .

01:02:04.466 --> 01:02:06.521
Congressman Steuby . See , hear . Or

01:02:06.521 --> 01:02:09.960
online . Great . Thank you .

01:02:11.770 --> 01:02:14.310
Mr Omer . First get like to give you

01:02:14.310 --> 01:02:16.660
the opportunity to respond . Teoh What

01:02:16.670 --> 01:02:19.920
Mrs to leave just said as a regards to

01:02:19.930 --> 01:02:21.430
the safety of the aircraft

01:02:23.850 --> 01:02:26.150
Congressman , as we mentioned the parts

01:02:26.150 --> 01:02:28.317
or not of concern it is the Elektronik

01:02:28.317 --> 01:02:31.240
file associated with the part . So we

01:02:31.240 --> 01:02:32.907
have processes in place . The

01:02:32.907 --> 01:02:34.907
maintainers have processes in place

01:02:34.907 --> 01:02:36.940
relative to part integrity . We are

01:02:36.940 --> 01:02:39.450
delivered . Each part is delivered dd 2

01:02:39.450 --> 01:02:41.840
50 It goes through a formal inspection

01:02:41.840 --> 01:02:43.850
process . Relative to that , the

01:02:43.850 --> 01:02:46.200
aircraft also has diagnostic systems on

01:02:46.200 --> 01:02:48.740
board relative to the health of the

01:02:48.740 --> 01:02:50.462
platform itself once parts are

01:02:50.462 --> 01:02:52.600
installed , so there's several layers

01:02:52.610 --> 01:02:54.390
of protection relative to part

01:02:54.390 --> 01:02:58.150
integrity . Can Laki

01:02:58.150 --> 01:03:00.620
Martin Arrow solved the eels

01:03:00.620 --> 01:03:02.676
functionality and data issues on its

01:03:02.676 --> 01:03:05.750
own ? Or is that a broader issue ? It

01:03:05.750 --> 01:03:07.972
needs to be done as an enterprise , and

01:03:07.972 --> 01:03:10.028
I think we collectively have engaged

01:03:10.028 --> 01:03:11.917
that issue relative to We need to

01:03:11.917 --> 01:03:14.139
listen to the warfighter , how they how

01:03:14.139 --> 01:03:16.361
they operate , sustain and maintain the

01:03:16.361 --> 01:03:18.528
aircraft . We need to incorporate that

01:03:18.528 --> 01:03:20.194
that information that learned

01:03:20.194 --> 01:03:21.750
information relative to the

01:03:21.750 --> 01:03:23.861
implementation within Alice and as we

01:03:23.861 --> 01:03:26.083
go forward into Odin system so it those

01:03:26.083 --> 01:03:28.250
requirements need to be defined by the

01:03:28.250 --> 01:03:30.472
user , and then industry and government

01:03:30.472 --> 01:03:32.639
needs to understand that requirement ,

01:03:32.639 --> 01:03:34.694
and then we can We can work to solve

01:03:34.694 --> 01:03:36.750
that problem . We will be able to do

01:03:36.750 --> 01:03:40.310
that . The F 35 program has been

01:03:40.310 --> 01:03:42.532
referred to as a concurrent development

01:03:42.540 --> 01:03:44.207
program . How does concurrent

01:03:44.207 --> 01:03:46.151
development affect the sustainment

01:03:46.151 --> 01:03:50.130
portion of the program . So as the

01:03:50.130 --> 01:03:52.310
as the products been developed , we

01:03:52.310 --> 01:03:54.830
have also begun production . So in the

01:03:54.840 --> 01:03:56.507
early phases of the program ,

01:03:56.507 --> 01:03:58.673
development was ongoing while we still

01:03:58.673 --> 01:04:01.060
produce the aircraft . Just two years

01:04:01.060 --> 01:04:03.116
ago , we received what's called full

01:04:03.116 --> 01:04:05.171
warfighter capability with a three f

01:04:05.171 --> 01:04:07.720
capability eso as that capability was

01:04:07.720 --> 01:04:10.210
released . The fleet has grown

01:04:10.390 --> 01:04:12.930
approximately 300 aircraft in the last

01:04:12.930 --> 01:04:15.610
three years , so there's been a lot of

01:04:15.620 --> 01:04:17.787
planning of how we plan to sustain the

01:04:17.787 --> 01:04:19.731
aircraft and now there is a lot of

01:04:19.731 --> 01:04:21.842
learning as we actually implement and

01:04:21.842 --> 01:04:24.009
sustain the airplane in the fleet . We

01:04:24.009 --> 01:04:25.898
then take and apply that learning

01:04:25.898 --> 01:04:27.898
relative to the experience that has

01:04:27.898 --> 01:04:29.620
occurred and update the system

01:04:29.620 --> 01:04:31.731
accordingly , and we seen significant

01:04:31.731 --> 01:04:33.731
improvement . I make comments in my

01:04:33.731 --> 01:04:35.950
testament in my opening remarks . The

01:04:35.960 --> 01:04:38.210
sustainment from a mission capable rate

01:04:38.210 --> 01:04:40.210
in the last two years has increased

01:04:40.210 --> 01:04:43.070
from the low fifties to the mid 70

01:04:43.070 --> 01:04:44.959
percentile from a mission capable

01:04:44.959 --> 01:04:46.959
release , and we also see the other

01:04:46.959 --> 01:04:49.126
sustainment metrics in terms of health

01:04:49.126 --> 01:04:51.181
of supply and maintenance activities

01:04:51.181 --> 01:04:53.348
also significantly improved . So we we

01:04:53.348 --> 01:04:55.570
can measure our performance at a system

01:04:55.570 --> 01:04:57.570
level relative to how the system is

01:04:57.570 --> 01:05:00.910
improving general thick . Can you ,

01:05:00.920 --> 01:05:03.770
um , how do you feel about our pilots

01:05:03.770 --> 01:05:07.730
being safe and slime that 45 ? So

01:05:07.730 --> 01:05:09.952
I have full faith and confidence in our

01:05:09.952 --> 01:05:12.008
maintenance group commanders and the

01:05:12.008 --> 01:05:14.119
troops that they come in and giving a

01:05:14.119 --> 01:05:16.341
ready for flight aircraft to our to our

01:05:16.341 --> 01:05:18.397
aircraft . I mentioned in my opening

01:05:18.397 --> 01:05:20.619
remarks . I have a son who's flying for

01:05:20.619 --> 01:05:22.786
the Air Force . He doesn't fly F 35 to

01:05:22.786 --> 01:05:24.786
his dismay , but but I know that he

01:05:24.786 --> 01:05:27.330
trusts his maintainers implicitly and

01:05:27.330 --> 01:05:29.260
explicitly to deliver to him an

01:05:29.260 --> 01:05:31.482
aircraft . It's safe to fly . I believe

01:05:31.482 --> 01:05:33.149
that as the maintenance group

01:05:33.149 --> 01:05:35.450
commanders assess the parts that are

01:05:35.450 --> 01:05:37.506
put onto the aircraft there , making

01:05:37.506 --> 01:05:39.561
sure that any aircraft they clear to

01:05:39.561 --> 01:05:40.660
fly is safe to fly

01:05:43.380 --> 01:05:45.602
General , can you please provide to the

01:05:45.602 --> 01:05:47.769
committee an overview of how the after

01:05:47.769 --> 01:05:49.824
thoughtless performing when I played

01:05:49.824 --> 01:05:51.936
and talked to the capabilities of the

01:05:51.936 --> 01:05:51.810
aircraft is providing for the men and

01:05:51.810 --> 01:05:54.990
women in uniform ? So it was 1/5

01:05:54.990 --> 01:05:57.046
generation strike fighter platform .

01:05:57.046 --> 01:05:59.870
The F 35 relies upon stealth sensor

01:05:59.870 --> 01:06:02.170
fusion and interoperability to allow it

01:06:02.180 --> 01:06:05.320
to penetrate and persist and to punish

01:06:05.630 --> 01:06:07.797
in a way that no other air system eyes

01:06:07.797 --> 01:06:10.019
capable of doing today . I think if you

01:06:10.019 --> 01:06:12.130
talk to a war fighter who flies the F

01:06:12.130 --> 01:06:14.241
35 Operations Aaron training , you'll

01:06:14.241 --> 01:06:16.241
find that they're very , very happy

01:06:16.241 --> 01:06:18.297
with the plane . They're very , very

01:06:18.297 --> 01:06:20.574
happy with the system that they've got .

01:06:20.574 --> 01:06:22.741
They always want more , and we need to

01:06:22.741 --> 01:06:24.852
give them war because the threats not

01:06:24.852 --> 01:06:24.630
slowing down the threats , not stopping .

01:06:24.840 --> 01:06:27.062
We need to continue to move the program

01:06:27.062 --> 01:06:29.340
forward from a development perspective ,

01:06:29.340 --> 01:06:31.507
from a production perspective and from

01:06:31.507 --> 01:06:34.630
the sustainment perspective . And what

01:06:34.630 --> 01:06:36.797
do you think can be done to take on to

01:06:36.797 --> 01:06:38.908
ensure that the F 35 is ready to take

01:06:38.908 --> 01:06:42.600
on emerging threats ? So , sir , we're ,

01:06:42.610 --> 01:06:45.290
uh , deliberately moving the program

01:06:45.300 --> 01:06:48.190
into a new paradigm for development

01:06:48.200 --> 01:06:50.367
that you may have heard of referred to

01:06:50.367 --> 01:06:52.533
is continuous capability , development

01:06:52.533 --> 01:06:54.700
and delivery working to transition , a

01:06:54.700 --> 01:06:57.500
legacy departmental . Our legacy

01:06:57.500 --> 01:07:00.070
industry style of development and

01:07:00.080 --> 01:07:03.060
delivery in huge traunch is into a more

01:07:03.060 --> 01:07:05.282
incremental and agile focus development

01:07:05.282 --> 01:07:07.504
paradigm where we bring capabilities to

01:07:07.504 --> 01:07:09.671
the warfighters faster that's gonna be

01:07:09.671 --> 01:07:11.893
important as we work our way forward on

01:07:11.893 --> 01:07:13.838
the threat continues to change our

01:07:13.838 --> 01:07:15.893
ability to be agile or not . Overuse

01:07:15.893 --> 01:07:18.080
that word to be nimble on the things

01:07:18.080 --> 01:07:20.302
that we can do with and on the platform

01:07:20.302 --> 01:07:24.220
will be critical . My time has expired .

01:07:24.220 --> 01:07:26.387
Thank you , General . For your service

01:07:26.387 --> 01:07:30.060
or country . Yeah . The chair now

01:07:30.060 --> 01:07:32.000
recognizes Congresswoman Porter .

01:07:34.480 --> 01:07:37.830
Hello , Mr Omar . Does Lucky

01:07:37.840 --> 01:07:41.180
Martin owe the government money ? The

01:07:41.190 --> 01:07:42.579
federal government money

01:07:45.270 --> 01:07:47.270
congresswoman were negotiating that

01:07:47.270 --> 01:07:49.492
today with the defense Contact Contract

01:07:49.492 --> 01:07:51.381
Management Agency Relative to the

01:07:51.381 --> 01:07:53.659
issues associated with Elektronik eels .

01:07:54.680 --> 01:07:56.680
You're negotiating today . How much

01:07:56.680 --> 01:07:58.990
does Lockheed Martin O taxpayers ,

01:08:00.560 --> 01:08:02.782
Carson . We're going through that . The

01:08:02.782 --> 01:08:05.010
figures that were provided 303 million

01:08:05.010 --> 01:08:07.850
have been reduced . 183 I heard today .

01:08:08.270 --> 01:08:10.381
So I think we're collectively working

01:08:10.381 --> 01:08:12.548
to understand , from an accountability

01:08:12.548 --> 01:08:14.714
point of view what those numbers are .

01:08:14.714 --> 01:08:16.603
Why were the figures produced the

01:08:16.603 --> 01:08:18.930
federal government that the F 35

01:08:18.940 --> 01:08:21.540
defective parts cost the government

01:08:21.550 --> 01:08:24.870
$300 million ? Why is that about being

01:08:24.870 --> 01:08:28.050
reduced ? I don't know the specifics ,

01:08:28.050 --> 01:08:30.272
man , but I do know that the government

01:08:30.500 --> 01:08:32.722
to reduce the amount you owe them or is

01:08:32.722 --> 01:08:35.970
it lucky Martin's idea came from the

01:08:35.980 --> 01:08:37.647
government ? It came from the

01:08:37.647 --> 01:08:40.540
government . Okay , Then I'll ask Miss

01:08:40.540 --> 01:08:43.800
Lord about this in a minute . So you're

01:08:43.800 --> 01:08:47.340
negotiating over what ? Waas 300 ? $250

01:08:47.340 --> 01:08:49.673
million . But it's somehow been reduced .

01:08:49.810 --> 01:08:53.660
Teoh . About half that . How is locking

01:08:53.670 --> 01:08:57.580
doing financially ? Man , we

01:08:57.580 --> 01:08:59.990
just released our quarterly earnings

01:08:59.990 --> 01:09:03.750
yesterday . So net sales ,

01:09:03.750 --> 01:09:07.750
16.2 billion net earnings , 1.6 billion

01:09:07.750 --> 01:09:10.760
in our cash , 2.2 billion . Okay , I

01:09:10.760 --> 01:09:12.760
want to make sure I have this right

01:09:13.310 --> 01:09:15.532
from that quarterly investor call which

01:09:15.532 --> 01:09:18.690
we also listen to . Profit is up 15%

01:09:19.010 --> 01:09:21.260
over this time last year . More than

01:09:21.260 --> 01:09:25.120
3.5 billion in profit so far in 2020

01:09:25.290 --> 01:09:28.830
10 times . That $3.5 billion in profit

01:09:28.850 --> 01:09:31.200
is 10 times what you owe the taxpayers .

01:09:31.470 --> 01:09:33.650
One recent headline . I hope you saw

01:09:33.650 --> 01:09:35.817
this good publicity for your company .

01:09:35.817 --> 01:09:37.817
One recent headline called Lockheed

01:09:37.817 --> 01:09:41.040
Martin Up Endemic Star for your ability

01:09:41.040 --> 01:09:43.470
to be earning money even as taxpayers

01:09:43.530 --> 01:09:45.252
at everyday families and small

01:09:45.252 --> 01:09:47.760
businesses struggle . So I'm not sure

01:09:47.760 --> 01:09:49.704
why the noticed that reduced . I'm

01:09:49.704 --> 01:09:51.871
gonna ask Miss Ford about that , but I

01:09:51.871 --> 01:09:53.816
also want to know more about why ,

01:09:53.816 --> 01:09:56.780
given that Lucky is a pandemic stopper ,

01:09:57.270 --> 01:09:59.437
Lucky is writing a letter to the white

01:09:59.437 --> 01:10:01.603
House just wrote a letter to the White

01:10:01.603 --> 01:10:04.330
House asking taxpayers to give lacking

01:10:04.340 --> 01:10:05.700
bailout funds .

01:10:08.310 --> 01:10:10.032
I'm not aware of that letter ,

01:10:10.032 --> 01:10:13.200
congresswoman . So you're telling me

01:10:13.210 --> 01:10:15.321
that it is lucky . Murray's statement

01:10:15.321 --> 01:10:17.900
on the record that there is no request

01:10:17.930 --> 01:10:21.350
for additional money related to things

01:10:21.350 --> 01:10:23.910
like the ministry lending program or

01:10:23.910 --> 01:10:25.980
than money set aside , specifically

01:10:26.090 --> 01:10:28.312
cares for national security companies .

01:10:29.360 --> 01:10:31.249
Man , I'm not aware of a specific

01:10:31.249 --> 01:10:33.471
letter . I am aware relative to Cove It

01:10:33.471 --> 01:10:36.740
19 and cares act relative to the

01:10:36.740 --> 01:10:39.880
disruption to aerospace and defense . I

01:10:39.890 --> 01:10:42.168
don't know the specifics of the letter .

01:10:42.168 --> 01:10:44.112
You're mentioning them . Did Lucky

01:10:44.112 --> 01:10:46.260
Martin request money under the Cares

01:10:46.260 --> 01:10:50.020
Act ? Yes , ma'am . Why ?

01:10:51.560 --> 01:10:53.616
Because of the disruption associated

01:10:53.616 --> 01:10:57.130
with Kobe 19 because of the disruption

01:10:57.130 --> 01:11:00.930
that caused you to have a profit of 15%

01:11:00.940 --> 01:11:03.162
over the prior year when we didn't have

01:11:03.162 --> 01:11:05.970
covered 19 ? That doesn't mean maybe

01:11:05.970 --> 01:11:08.230
making gobs of money is disruption for

01:11:08.230 --> 01:11:10.230
you . But I think for most everyday

01:11:10.230 --> 01:11:12.341
Americans , if they'd seen her income

01:11:12.341 --> 01:11:15.010
go up 15% this year , if they were

01:11:15.360 --> 01:11:17.720
making 10 if they were making a 30

01:11:18.020 --> 01:11:20.187
through my $1,000,000,000 in profit in

01:11:20.187 --> 01:11:21.910
2020 they wouldn't call that a

01:11:21.910 --> 01:11:24.430
disruption . They call that a miracle ,

01:11:24.510 --> 01:11:26.510
and they would not be coming to the

01:11:26.510 --> 01:11:28.732
government trying to take more taxpayer

01:11:28.732 --> 01:11:30.843
dollars at the same time that you are

01:11:30.843 --> 01:11:32.910
failing to pay the U . S . Taxpayers

01:11:32.910 --> 01:11:34.990
back what you owe for breach of

01:11:35.000 --> 01:11:38.510
contract with regard to the F 35 Joint

01:11:38.510 --> 01:11:42.110
Strike Force , I am unable to

01:11:42.110 --> 01:11:44.332
understand why you need this additional

01:11:44.332 --> 01:11:47.390
money when your profits are up and you

01:11:47.390 --> 01:11:49.501
breached our contracts with regard to

01:11:49.501 --> 01:11:51.668
producing defective parts . Why should

01:11:51.668 --> 01:11:53.612
the taxpayer foot the bill to help

01:11:53.612 --> 01:11:56.960
Lucky Martin at this time ? Man ?

01:11:56.960 --> 01:12:00.020
The disruption associated with Kobe 19

01:12:00.030 --> 01:12:02.210
requires many different aspects .

01:12:02.210 --> 01:12:04.640
Relative Teoh , health and welfare of

01:12:04.640 --> 01:12:07.120
employees . The suppliers

01:12:07.850 --> 01:12:11.070
with use your

01:12:11.070 --> 01:12:15.060
15% increase in profit to pay

01:12:15.190 --> 01:12:17.620
to protect your workers during Kobe .

01:12:22.670 --> 01:12:24.830
Putting the bill to help a company

01:12:24.830 --> 01:12:27.150
that's having an uber profitability

01:12:27.150 --> 01:12:28.970
moment that is a pandemic star

01:12:29.850 --> 01:12:31.794
congresswoman . No funds have been

01:12:31.794 --> 01:12:34.017
provided relative to the cares Act that

01:12:34.017 --> 01:12:37.750
you have . Yes , just like meaning

01:12:37.750 --> 01:12:40.480
aerospace and defense companies . One

01:12:40.480 --> 01:12:42.647
wrong doesn't make a right With that ,

01:12:42.647 --> 01:12:45.860
I yield back . The gentle lady yields

01:12:45.860 --> 01:12:48.760
back and , uh , I now record recognize

01:12:48.760 --> 01:12:50.260
represented growth Hman .

01:12:53.680 --> 01:12:55.860
This whole will start with you . Your

01:12:55.860 --> 01:12:58.230
report found that is the result of

01:12:58.230 --> 01:13:00.286
receiving that Ready for issue spare

01:13:00.286 --> 01:13:02.452
parts . The Department of Defense been

01:13:02.452 --> 01:13:05.070
303 million labor costs since 2000 and

01:13:05.070 --> 01:13:07.940
15 . If that figures Right , that's

01:13:07.940 --> 01:13:10.107
kind of a big number . Can you explain

01:13:10.107 --> 01:13:13.230
how you arrived at that number ? The

01:13:13.240 --> 01:13:16.170
303 million is just the cost of vot

01:13:16.170 --> 01:13:19.730
labor . So it it costs about 7000 to

01:13:19.730 --> 01:13:23.200
11,000 her issue to fix or to resolve .

01:13:23.420 --> 01:13:26.160
So that figure is just for the labour

01:13:26.280 --> 01:13:28.336
attributed to the action requests at

01:13:28.336 --> 01:13:30.280
the time . So it's really a larger

01:13:30.280 --> 01:13:32.630
number and cost overall . Yes , it only

01:13:32.630 --> 01:13:34.797
reflects duty labor . It does not take

01:13:34.797 --> 01:13:37.019
into account the additional amount that

01:13:37.019 --> 01:13:39.241
Lockheed charged back to the government

01:13:39.241 --> 01:13:41.463
to get the parts that , you know , back

01:13:41.463 --> 01:13:43.297
ready for issue so much That was

01:13:43.297 --> 01:13:45.408
unfortunately because of the way data

01:13:45.408 --> 01:13:47.574
was not tracked regarding that we were

01:13:47.574 --> 01:13:49.574
unable to obtain that information .

01:13:49.650 --> 01:13:51.970
Okay . Are you trying to get it ? Are

01:13:52.550 --> 01:13:54.717
They're just what ? I can give you the

01:13:54.717 --> 01:13:56.790
information or we requested the

01:13:56.790 --> 01:13:59.012
information from Lockheed Martin during

01:13:59.012 --> 01:14:01.179
the course of the audit , but they did

01:14:01.179 --> 01:14:03.012
not provide it . Do you have any

01:14:03.012 --> 01:14:05.290
recourse , or you just gotta tolerated .

01:14:05.880 --> 01:14:08.190
Lockheed Martin shared with our audit

01:14:08.190 --> 01:14:10.250
team that they do not track the

01:14:10.250 --> 01:14:12.361
information in a manner in which they

01:14:12.361 --> 01:14:14.770
could provide that cost to us . Heller .

01:14:15.540 --> 01:14:18.710
I guess they're saving costs , huh ? Um ,

01:14:19.130 --> 01:14:21.160
in the years since report has been

01:14:21.160 --> 01:14:22.993
released , have you continued to

01:14:22.993 --> 01:14:25.650
monitor the delivery of non verify

01:14:25.650 --> 01:14:29.250
parts ? Since our issue are since our

01:14:29.250 --> 01:14:31.290
report was issued , we're currently

01:14:31.290 --> 01:14:33.346
tracking the recommendations that we

01:14:33.346 --> 01:14:35.568
made to the joint program office on the

01:14:35.568 --> 01:14:37.568
joint proud program office . Agreed

01:14:37.568 --> 01:14:39.734
with all four recommendations . And we

01:14:39.734 --> 01:14:39.460
are in the process of waiting for

01:14:39.460 --> 01:14:41.510
information to validate the actions

01:14:41.510 --> 01:14:43.732
taken . If you have any update for us ,

01:14:43.732 --> 01:14:46.200
just keep waiting . Currently , we're

01:14:46.200 --> 01:14:48.470
waiting for documentation to validate

01:14:48.480 --> 01:14:50.620
actions taken . Okay , we have a

01:14:50.620 --> 01:14:53.250
general think a question here . Uh ,

01:14:53.260 --> 01:14:55.371
what's your office than toe address ?

01:14:55.371 --> 01:14:57.538
Their problem and what type of changes

01:14:57.538 --> 01:15:00.980
you think we need is to move forward So

01:15:00.990 --> 01:15:03.500
relative to the eel issue and on r f I

01:15:03.500 --> 01:15:05.444
parts , we have worked very , very

01:15:05.444 --> 01:15:07.667
closely with the field on with Lockheed

01:15:07.667 --> 01:15:10.090
Martin to put process and practice in

01:15:10.090 --> 01:15:13.640
place to to ensure

01:15:13.640 --> 01:15:15.830
that the number of parts that are

01:15:15.830 --> 01:15:19.690
arrive are . But that that requiring ,

01:15:19.690 --> 01:15:22.180
er I actually have that he'll One of

01:15:22.180 --> 01:15:24.430
these specific technical moves that

01:15:24.440 --> 01:15:26.910
that the group made was to provide what

01:15:26.910 --> 01:15:28.966
they call in advance shipping notice

01:15:28.966 --> 01:15:32.350
that in some ways significantly reduces

01:15:32.350 --> 01:15:35.010
the errors associated with manual entry

01:15:35.010 --> 01:15:37.121
of data on a part arrives at a base .

01:15:37.121 --> 01:15:39.770
So it effectively pre populates the

01:15:39.770 --> 01:15:41.510
system to allow for an easier

01:15:41.510 --> 01:15:43.880
transmittal of the eel and easier

01:15:43.880 --> 01:15:46.047
acceptance and arrival of that deal on

01:15:46.047 --> 01:15:48.158
the base . That's a large part of the

01:15:48.158 --> 01:15:51.110
reason that we're now in an 83% yield

01:15:51.120 --> 01:15:54.150
horrifying number . Okay , well , can I

01:15:54.150 --> 01:15:57.620
ask a similar question of Mr Omer from

01:15:57.620 --> 01:15:59.731
your perspectives Have had the issues

01:15:59.731 --> 01:16:01.920
that were raised on a narrow in on our

01:16:01.920 --> 01:16:04.870
vice spare parts in the June 2019 .

01:16:04.870 --> 01:16:06.648
Inspector General report Seeing

01:16:06.648 --> 01:16:09.540
improvements ? Yes , sir . They have a

01:16:09.540 --> 01:16:11.818
sui alluded to in the opening comments .

01:16:11.818 --> 01:16:13.970
Ready for issue . Effectiveness rate

01:16:13.970 --> 01:16:16.490
has increased from , I believe , 43% .

01:16:16.860 --> 01:16:20.470
45% to about 83% the last six months .

01:16:21.600 --> 01:16:24.040
Okay , thank you very much . I feel the

01:16:24.050 --> 01:16:27.300
rest of my time gentlemen yields back

01:16:27.300 --> 01:16:28.810
and the chair recognizes a

01:16:28.810 --> 01:16:30.088
Congresswoman Miller .

01:16:34.630 --> 01:16:36.797
Thank you , madam chairman and ranking

01:16:36.797 --> 01:16:38.741
member comer and thank you all for

01:16:38.741 --> 01:16:40.908
being here today to testify before our

01:16:40.908 --> 01:16:43.340
committee . As all of my committee's

01:16:43.340 --> 01:16:45.270
today , understand , all of my

01:16:45.270 --> 01:16:47.690
colleagues today understand the F 35

01:16:47.690 --> 01:16:50.060
program is one of the most essential

01:16:50.060 --> 01:16:52.590
tools in our nation . Armed forces

01:16:52.590 --> 01:16:55.330
disposal . I strongly support the

01:16:55.330 --> 01:16:58.680
continued investment in the F 35

01:16:58.680 --> 01:17:00.840
program , and I believe that it will

01:17:00.840 --> 01:17:02.790
play a major role in defending the

01:17:02.790 --> 01:17:05.040
United States and our allies for

01:17:05.040 --> 01:17:08.340
decades to come . I applaud the work

01:17:08.340 --> 01:17:10.173
that the Department of Defense ,

01:17:10.173 --> 01:17:12.620
Lockheed Martin and the thousands of

01:17:12.620 --> 01:17:14.342
suppliers around the country ,

01:17:14.390 --> 01:17:16.390
including those in my home state of

01:17:16.390 --> 01:17:18.730
West Virginia , have done to ensure

01:17:18.730 --> 01:17:21.910
that the F 35 program will continue to

01:17:21.910 --> 01:17:24.710
be cost efficient , mission capable and

01:17:24.710 --> 01:17:27.520
effective . I'm encouraged by the

01:17:27.520 --> 01:17:29.187
progress that has been made ,

01:17:29.187 --> 01:17:31.960
especially in the last year , to reduce

01:17:31.960 --> 01:17:34.970
the cost per flight and to ensure ready

01:17:34.970 --> 01:17:37.510
for issue Parts compliance are at a

01:17:37.510 --> 01:17:39.880
much higher rate . Again , I want to

01:17:39.890 --> 01:17:42.057
thank you all for being here today for

01:17:42.057 --> 01:17:44.279
questions and showing the Committee and

01:17:44.279 --> 01:17:46.390
the American people the importance of

01:17:46.390 --> 01:17:49.550
the F 35 program . Mr . Omer ,

01:17:50.500 --> 01:17:53.400
how has the Corona virus pandemic and

01:17:53.400 --> 01:17:55.730
the shutdown and the sustained economic

01:17:55.730 --> 01:17:58.400
shutdown impacted the supply chain for

01:17:58.400 --> 01:18:00.030
the F 35 program .

01:18:02.170 --> 01:18:05.140
Congresswoman , it's It's a bit of a

01:18:05.140 --> 01:18:07.610
mixed bag , so we have suppliers that

01:18:07.620 --> 01:18:09.740
have shut down for periods of time .

01:18:10.220 --> 01:18:12.900
Think weeks . Think a month . We've had

01:18:12.900 --> 01:18:15.122
suppliers that have had little impact .

01:18:15.122 --> 01:18:16.860
We've had suppliers that their

01:18:16.860 --> 01:18:18.693
workforce has been significantly

01:18:18.693 --> 01:18:21.720
impacted . For example , we've got a

01:18:21.720 --> 01:18:23.553
supplier that have reduced their

01:18:23.553 --> 01:18:26.480
workforce for periods of time from 100%

01:18:26.480 --> 01:18:30.310
down to 20 or 30% . So it has been

01:18:30.320 --> 01:18:32.590
It's been a bit of diverse impact to

01:18:32.590 --> 01:18:34.423
our supply base . We've also had

01:18:34.423 --> 01:18:36.620
suppliers that provide commercial

01:18:36.620 --> 01:18:38.800
material as well as merit military

01:18:39.090 --> 01:18:41.090
hardware to the platform . And so ,

01:18:41.090 --> 01:18:43.090
from a commercial aviation point of

01:18:43.090 --> 01:18:45.090
view , they have been significantly

01:18:45.090 --> 01:18:47.312
impacted from a finance health point of

01:18:47.312 --> 01:18:49.170
view . And so there's just many

01:18:49.170 --> 01:18:51.520
different aspects of how Cove it has

01:18:51.520 --> 01:18:53.740
impacted the supply base in industry

01:18:53.740 --> 01:18:55.796
across there , not the aerospace and

01:18:55.796 --> 01:18:58.740
defense sector . Thank you , General

01:18:58.740 --> 01:19:01.500
sick . How does the mission capable

01:19:01.500 --> 01:19:04.510
rate for the F 35 fighters , compared

01:19:04.510 --> 01:19:07.240
to a year ago or even six months ago ?

01:19:09.110 --> 01:19:11.277
I am the mission capable rate of the F

01:19:11.277 --> 01:19:13.443
35 over the course . The last year has

01:19:13.443 --> 01:19:15.554
come up from , as I recall in the mid

01:19:15.554 --> 01:19:18.210
fifties to the low to mid seventies at

01:19:18.270 --> 01:19:21.660
a Zai look back at the data today . It

01:19:21.660 --> 01:19:23.771
actually seems relatively flat in the

01:19:23.771 --> 01:19:26.940
mid seventies Ato fleet level below the

01:19:26.940 --> 01:19:29.107
fleet level as we look individually at

01:19:29.107 --> 01:19:31.162
the F 35 A , which is doing a little

01:19:31.162 --> 01:19:33.218
bit better and the B in the See what

01:19:33.218 --> 01:19:35.440
you're doing a little bit worse . We do

01:19:35.440 --> 01:19:37.607
see variations colossal by differences

01:19:37.607 --> 01:19:39.496
in the some of the systems on the

01:19:39.496 --> 01:19:41.520
aircraft , and we see the impact of

01:19:41.520 --> 01:19:44.400
different fleet sizes as well on the

01:19:44.410 --> 01:19:47.040
mission capability rates we're taking

01:19:47.040 --> 01:19:49.770
in a wide variety of initiatives and

01:19:49.770 --> 01:19:51.992
issues that are articulated in our life

01:19:51.992 --> 01:19:53.881
cycle . Sustainment Plan to drive

01:19:53.881 --> 01:19:56.048
mission capability raising two Dr F 35

01:19:56.048 --> 01:19:57.937
Sustainment outcomes in the right

01:19:57.937 --> 01:20:00.430
direction . Fixing Alice . There's only

01:20:00.430 --> 01:20:02.760
one of those issues . We have 12

01:20:02.760 --> 01:20:04.816
different lines of effort that we're

01:20:04.816 --> 01:20:06.316
undertaking to include the

01:20:06.316 --> 01:20:08.427
establishment , the accelerated stand

01:20:08.427 --> 01:20:10.730
up of organic depose , the use of

01:20:10.740 --> 01:20:12.740
increased maintenance , maintenance

01:20:12.740 --> 01:20:14.962
authorities on the flight line and wide

01:20:14.962 --> 01:20:16.796
variety of other issues that all

01:20:16.796 --> 01:20:18.740
together will continue to move the

01:20:18.740 --> 01:20:20.907
needle in the right direction . Good .

01:20:20.907 --> 01:20:24.770
General FIC and Mr Omer , What

01:20:24.780 --> 01:20:27.430
does the future look like for the F 35

01:20:27.440 --> 01:20:30.090
production ? And how does Lockheed and

01:20:30.090 --> 01:20:32.201
your suppliers think you will be able

01:20:32.201 --> 01:20:32.820
to scale ?

01:20:36.990 --> 01:20:40.440
So we are a Z . You're aware , man . We

01:20:40.440 --> 01:20:43.490
signed the lot 12 through 14 production

01:20:43.490 --> 01:20:45.830
contracts over the course of the last

01:20:45.830 --> 01:20:48.320
fall , and we're currently entering

01:20:48.320 --> 01:20:51.060
negotiations for the Lots 15 through 17

01:20:51.400 --> 01:20:53.178
contracts . I can't talk to the

01:20:53.178 --> 01:20:55.456
specific details of those negotiations ,

01:20:55.780 --> 01:20:58.020
but I will tell you that overall , as

01:20:58.020 --> 01:21:00.131
you look into the service budgets and

01:21:00.131 --> 01:21:02.076
as you look into the service spend

01:21:02.076 --> 01:21:04.020
plans , we see that the numbers of

01:21:04.020 --> 01:21:06.020
aircraft in those years are are not

01:21:06.020 --> 01:21:08.131
rising as they did over the course of

01:21:08.131 --> 01:21:10.076
lots 10 through 14 . But they're a

01:21:10.076 --> 01:21:12.140
little bit more flak . Some of the

01:21:12.150 --> 01:21:15.120
flatness of the profile in those years ,

01:21:15.300 --> 01:21:17.467
eyes going to challenge our ability to

01:21:17.467 --> 01:21:20.230
continue to drive price down by tail .

01:21:20.560 --> 01:21:22.616
But we're committed to continuing to

01:21:22.616 --> 01:21:24.449
work hard with the department to

01:21:24.449 --> 01:21:27.320
establish the best value for our

01:21:27.320 --> 01:21:29.840
taxpayers and warfighters . Thank you ,

01:21:29.890 --> 01:21:30.570
Mr Almer

01:21:34.490 --> 01:21:38.040
ST Go in 2017 we

01:21:38.040 --> 01:21:41.990
delivered 61 In 2018 we delivered 91 .

01:21:41.990 --> 01:21:45.060
Last year we delivered 134 . This year ,

01:21:45.060 --> 01:21:47.060
prior to Kobe , we were on track to

01:21:47.060 --> 01:21:49.171
deliver 141 aircraft , so you can see

01:21:49.171 --> 01:21:51.300
the progression of production rate .

01:21:51.610 --> 01:21:53.950
And then we'll actually continue that

01:21:53.960 --> 01:21:55.960
production rise as we go forward to

01:21:55.960 --> 01:21:58.560
approximately 165 aircraft and then ,

01:21:58.560 --> 01:22:00.727
as general thick alluded to will see a

01:22:00.727 --> 01:22:03.250
slight decline in production quantities

01:22:03.250 --> 01:22:06.850
probably around Excuse me 155 or so

01:22:07.460 --> 01:22:09.571
in the three lots coming after that .

01:22:09.571 --> 01:22:11.627
So just kind of an overview . Within

01:22:11.627 --> 01:22:13.793
that production rate , we've been able

01:22:13.793 --> 01:22:15.793
to reduce the price of the airplane

01:22:15.793 --> 01:22:18.016
significantly . Eso we had we were on .

01:22:18.016 --> 01:22:20.071
We were on a plan or a trajectory to

01:22:20.071 --> 01:22:22.016
get to what we call an $80 million

01:22:22.016 --> 01:22:24.182
aircraft by a lot 14 . We were able to

01:22:24.182 --> 01:22:27.160
achieve that one lot early in lot 13 .

01:22:27.320 --> 01:22:30.200
And what that really what that allows

01:22:30.200 --> 01:22:32.930
is we are now able to produce and

01:22:32.930 --> 01:22:35.670
deliver 1/5 gen capability aircraft

01:22:35.670 --> 01:22:37.781
really at the price of what a fortune

01:22:37.781 --> 01:22:41.480
legacy fighter would would cost . Thank

01:22:41.480 --> 01:22:42.647
you . I yield back .

01:22:45.800 --> 01:22:49.150
Thank everybody . This is the last

01:22:49.160 --> 01:22:51.760
questioner and I want to thank our

01:22:51.760 --> 01:22:53.760
Panelists for their remarks . And I

01:22:53.760 --> 01:22:55.900
also want to commend my colleagues on

01:22:55.900 --> 01:22:57.789
both sides of the aisle for their

01:22:58.250 --> 01:23:01.680
really informed and passionate concern

01:23:01.910 --> 01:23:04.132
and for participating in this important

01:23:04.132 --> 01:23:06.520
conversation . I would like to yield to

01:23:06.520 --> 01:23:08.960
my colleague and good friend ranking

01:23:08.960 --> 01:23:11.140
member comer for his closing remarks .

01:23:11.900 --> 01:23:13.956
Well , thank you , Madam Chair . And

01:23:13.956 --> 01:23:15.900
again , I want to thank all of our

01:23:15.900 --> 01:23:18.710
witnesses who were here . Our side of

01:23:18.710 --> 01:23:21.820
the aisle here has been focused on

01:23:22.420 --> 01:23:26.010
oversight . It's good to have a

01:23:26.010 --> 01:23:28.490
bipartisan hearing where we all share

01:23:28.490 --> 01:23:30.546
the same goals , and those goals are

01:23:30.546 --> 01:23:32.601
number one to ensure that our troops

01:23:32.601 --> 01:23:35.530
have the absolute best . At number

01:23:35.540 --> 01:23:37.373
Number two is to ensure that the

01:23:37.373 --> 01:23:40.600
taxpayers get their dollars worth and

01:23:40.600 --> 01:23:43.960
you will find no group in Congress

01:23:43.960 --> 01:23:47.870
MAWR in support of the private sector

01:23:47.970 --> 01:23:50.810
than our side of the hour . We know

01:23:50.810 --> 01:23:54.540
that parts and contracting and

01:23:54.550 --> 01:23:57.880
aircraft can be produced in the private

01:23:57.880 --> 01:24:00.600
sector significantly more significantly

01:24:00.600 --> 01:24:02.900
cheaper than the government could .

01:24:03.330 --> 01:24:05.163
Having said that , we expect the

01:24:05.163 --> 01:24:08.160
private sector to deliver on their end

01:24:08.160 --> 01:24:10.860
of the bargain and with prospective

01:24:10.860 --> 01:24:13.750
Lockheed Martin . I appreciate the fact

01:24:13.760 --> 01:24:16.260
that Lockie Barton has a significant

01:24:16.270 --> 01:24:19.270
footprint in America . Lockheed Martin

01:24:19.280 --> 01:24:21.336
employees a lot of people , and they

01:24:21.336 --> 01:24:24.260
pay excellent wages to their employees .

01:24:24.260 --> 01:24:25.982
It's a great place to work . I

01:24:25.982 --> 01:24:28.550
appreciate that . But , Mr Olmert , we

01:24:28.550 --> 01:24:31.750
we've had this discussion about the

01:24:31.760 --> 01:24:34.070
issues with the eels and the issues

01:24:34.070 --> 01:24:37.580
with the F 35 . And considering the

01:24:37.770 --> 01:24:40.370
significant percentage that this

01:24:40.370 --> 01:24:43.860
product IHS with your total sales for

01:24:43.860 --> 01:24:46.082
Lockheed Martin , I certainly hope that

01:24:46.082 --> 01:24:49.200
moving forward , we can get these

01:24:49.200 --> 01:24:51.400
issues resolved for the sake of our

01:24:51.400 --> 01:24:53.330
military , for the sake of our

01:24:53.330 --> 01:24:56.250
servicemen and women on for the sake of

01:24:56.250 --> 01:24:57.972
the American taxpayer . So I'm

01:24:57.972 --> 01:25:01.100
confident that we can get this resolved .

01:25:01.110 --> 01:25:02.950
But I look forward to continue

01:25:02.950 --> 01:25:06.590
discussions with with Lockheed

01:25:06.590 --> 01:25:09.360
Martin with our United States military

01:25:09.360 --> 01:25:12.700
and with the majority in this committee

01:25:12.710 --> 01:25:14.877
with that madam chair , I yield back .

01:25:15.610 --> 01:25:17.832
Well , I I really want to thank you and

01:25:17.832 --> 01:25:19.999
your staff and all of your members for

01:25:19.999 --> 01:25:22.610
joining us in a bipartisan way to work

01:25:22.610 --> 01:25:24.940
on this challenge . And I join my

01:25:24.950 --> 01:25:28.930
colleagues in saying that I , uh I I'm

01:25:28.930 --> 01:25:32.930
very pleased that Lockheed Martin has

01:25:32.930 --> 01:25:35.490
said they are dedicated to resolving

01:25:35.490 --> 01:25:38.630
these challenges and on , Mr Omer

01:25:38.640 --> 01:25:41.020
mentioned that he , or rather Lockheed

01:25:41.020 --> 01:25:42.964
Martin , had already spent over 30

01:25:42.964 --> 01:25:46.550
million trying to correct this

01:25:46.550 --> 01:25:48.717
problem . But I want to point out that

01:25:48.717 --> 01:25:50.883
that is just a small percentage of the

01:25:50.883 --> 01:25:53.410
cost of one plane , especially when you

01:25:53.540 --> 01:25:56.340
add the 50 million that they say is

01:25:56.340 --> 01:25:58.750
needed to maintain the program yearly

01:25:58.750 --> 01:26:01.270
Now , because of the challenges , I do

01:26:01.270 --> 01:26:04.000
wanna say how pleased many of us are to

01:26:04.000 --> 01:26:07.100
learn about the Odin contract that the

01:26:07.100 --> 01:26:09.450
government will be putting forward and

01:26:09.450 --> 01:26:12.050
that the intellectual property and the

01:26:12.050 --> 01:26:14.490
Datta components will be owned by the

01:26:14.490 --> 01:26:16.850
American taxpayer and the American

01:26:16.860 --> 01:26:19.050
government . I believe this should be

01:26:19.050 --> 01:26:22.010
the standard for any military contract

01:26:22.020 --> 01:26:24.530
going forward . I consider this a

01:26:24.530 --> 01:26:27.630
national security challenge because

01:26:27.630 --> 01:26:30.190
there have been so many reports that

01:26:30.200 --> 01:26:33.130
the information has been stolen from

01:26:33.130 --> 01:26:35.660
our contractors through through hacking ,

01:26:35.900 --> 01:26:38.990
including allegations that the F 35 has

01:26:38.990 --> 01:26:40.990
been compromised in the information

01:26:40.990 --> 01:26:44.380
stolen . So to have it controlled by

01:26:44.380 --> 01:26:46.620
the government to protect this

01:26:46.620 --> 01:26:49.730
information , I believe is a very good

01:26:49.740 --> 01:26:52.840
step in the right direction . We are

01:26:53.100 --> 01:26:55.390
looking forward to learning more about

01:26:55.400 --> 01:26:58.030
the Odin program and the contract and

01:26:58.030 --> 01:27:00.086
exactly how you're going to spell it

01:27:00.086 --> 01:27:02.200
out so that these challenges do not

01:27:02.200 --> 01:27:05.370
happen in the future in order to first

01:27:05.370 --> 01:27:07.640
of all , protect the safety of our men

01:27:07.640 --> 01:27:09.862
and women in the in the Air Force , but

01:27:09.862 --> 01:27:11.840
also to protect the dollars of our

01:27:11.840 --> 01:27:14.810
taxpayers . Our next meeting will be

01:27:14.810 --> 01:27:18.490
held in September on the F 35

01:27:19.780 --> 01:27:23.300
I am hopeful that the D . C MT .

01:27:23.580 --> 01:27:26.910
Who reported that there was 183 million

01:27:27.150 --> 01:27:30.470
owed to the American taxpayers that he

01:27:30.470 --> 01:27:32.359
had , the report said they are in

01:27:32.359 --> 01:27:36.310
negotiations . I hope by September this

01:27:36.320 --> 01:27:39.080
issue will be resolved and that we can

01:27:39.080 --> 01:27:41.870
learn more about what D . O . D . Is

01:27:41.870 --> 01:27:44.480
doing to modernize our military

01:27:44.490 --> 01:27:47.830
contracting process . It is

01:27:47.830 --> 01:27:49.886
important , first and foremost , for

01:27:49.886 --> 01:27:52.310
the safety and security of the men and

01:27:52.310 --> 01:27:55.070
women in uniform , but also the safety

01:27:55.070 --> 01:27:57.292
and security of the tax dollars in this

01:27:57.292 --> 01:27:59.740
country . I really want to thank again

01:27:59.750 --> 01:28:02.210
all of the Panelists for their life's

01:28:02.210 --> 01:28:04.099
work for their dedication , their

01:28:04.099 --> 01:28:07.120
testimony today and , uh , I must say ,

01:28:07.460 --> 01:28:08.960
I believe this is the best

01:28:08.960 --> 01:28:12.040
participation of any any hearing this

01:28:12.040 --> 01:28:14.096
year that I've seen on both sides of

01:28:14.096 --> 01:28:16.310
the aisle , showing deep concern and

01:28:16.310 --> 01:28:19.100
commitment to resolving this issue in a

01:28:19.100 --> 01:28:21.870
positive way for the private sector ,

01:28:21.970 --> 01:28:24.290
the military , the government and the

01:28:24.290 --> 01:28:26.570
taxpayer . And I yelled back , and I

01:28:26.570 --> 01:28:28.626
think the staff on both sides of the

01:28:28.626 --> 01:28:31.430
aisle , this was a joint effort . Every

01:28:31.430 --> 01:28:34.210
single meeting was held in conjunction

01:28:34.210 --> 01:28:36.400
with both parties . Every interview ,

01:28:36.680 --> 01:28:40.330
every report has been a bipartisan

01:28:40.340 --> 01:28:43.590
effort on this important issue and in

01:28:43.590 --> 01:28:45.990
closing , I want to thank our Panelists

01:28:45.990 --> 01:28:47.879
for their remarks , and I want to

01:28:47.879 --> 01:28:50.212
commend my colleagues for participating .

01:28:50.212 --> 01:28:52.323
With that and without objection , all

01:28:52.323 --> 01:28:54.546
members will have five legislative days

01:28:54.546 --> 01:28:56.490
within which to submit additional

01:28:56.500 --> 01:28:58.667
written questions for the witnesses to

01:28:58.667 --> 01:29:00.778
the chair , which will be afforded to

01:29:00.778 --> 01:29:02.833
the witnesses for their response . I

01:29:02.833 --> 01:29:06.030
ask our witnesses to please respond as

01:29:06.030 --> 01:29:09.770
promptly as you are able . This hearing

01:29:09.780 --> 01:29:10.890
is adjourned .