WEBVTT 00:00.540 --> 00:02.790 - Good morning, we'll call the meeting to order. 00:02.790 --> 00:06.010 We are here this morning to continue our posture hearings 00:06.010 --> 00:08.610 in preparation for the 2021 NDAA, 00:08.610 --> 00:11.220 and this morning we will hear from 00:11.220 --> 00:15.120 the Department of the Air Force and the Space Force Command 00:15.120 --> 00:17.540 on the budget requests for their departments, 00:17.540 --> 00:19.550 the president's budget requests from FY21. 00:19.550 --> 00:22.820 We are joined by the Honorable Barbara Barrett, 00:22.820 --> 00:23.910 Secretary of the Air Force, 00:23.910 --> 00:26.130 and it is her first time before our committee, 00:26.130 --> 00:30.840 so welcome and look forward to your testimony. 00:30.840 --> 00:32.470 General David Goldfein, 00:32.470 --> 00:33.920 who's the Chief of Staff of the Air Force, 00:33.920 --> 00:35.320 and, in all likelihood, 00:35.320 --> 00:37.780 this may well be your last time before the committee, 00:37.780 --> 00:40.780 so the beginnings and the endings, 00:40.780 --> 00:43.057 and we certainly appreciate your service 00:43.057 --> 00:46.027 and also your consistent candor before this committee 00:46.027 --> 00:48.670 and in working with us so well over your time 00:48.670 --> 00:49.910 as the Chief of Staff. 00:49.910 --> 00:51.440 We appreciate that leadership, 00:51.440 --> 00:53.480 and we are joined by General John Raymond, 00:53.480 --> 00:56.190 Chief of Space Operations for the US Space Force. 00:56.190 --> 00:59.850 Not only is this his first time before the committee, 00:59.850 --> 01:02.830 but it is the first time having a representative 01:02.830 --> 01:06.220 from the US Space Force and the newly-created US Space Force 01:06.220 --> 01:07.700 so we are very anxious to hear from you 01:07.700 --> 01:11.080 about how the setup of that is going. 01:11.080 --> 01:13.370 I thank our witnesses for being here, 01:13.370 --> 01:16.520 and I think that the challenge going forward, 01:16.520 --> 01:18.260 which we've talked about a lot in this committee, 01:18.260 --> 01:20.610 is, as always happens with arms, 01:20.610 --> 01:22.420 so you're consistently asked to do more 01:22.420 --> 01:24.230 than you have the resources to do, 01:24.230 --> 01:26.210 and how you manage that, I think, 01:26.210 --> 01:28.530 is the great challenge at the Pentagon right now 01:28.530 --> 01:30.000 in terms of, you know, 01:30.000 --> 01:31.850 how do we figure out maybe to get more resources, 01:31.850 --> 01:34.780 how do we figure out to perhaps change what the strategy is 01:34.780 --> 01:36.920 to better match those resources, 01:36.920 --> 01:39.730 but in doing that, there is considerable risk, 01:39.730 --> 01:41.910 in terms of how we make sure that we're prepared 01:41.910 --> 01:44.240 for what it is that we do choose to do, 01:44.240 --> 01:48.330 and I was particularly interested in the study that you did, 01:48.330 --> 01:51.860 I think came out that said you have roughly 319 squadrons, 01:51.860 --> 01:54.510 and you'd like to have 386, 01:54.510 --> 01:56.750 and the trouble with that is you are highly unlikely 01:56.750 --> 01:58.740 to get to 386, 01:58.740 --> 02:01.830 so I worry about what that means, 02:01.830 --> 02:03.720 in terms of what our actual plan is 02:03.720 --> 02:05.660 and our ability to execute it. 02:05.660 --> 02:08.140 If we set up and say, "Well, we have to have this much," 02:08.140 --> 02:10.730 and we don't, then we're sort of scrambling around, 02:10.730 --> 02:13.090 unable to truly be prepared for any mission, 02:13.090 --> 02:14.920 since we're trying to prepare for more missions 02:14.920 --> 02:17.630 than we can possibly do, if that makes sense. 02:17.630 --> 02:20.730 I'd like to know how we rationalize that, 02:20.730 --> 02:23.690 and also something that has come up consistently is 02:23.690 --> 02:25.630 so that's how many squadrons you want, 02:25.630 --> 02:27.590 but just with our discussion of ships 02:27.590 --> 02:29.210 and this mythical number of ships 02:29.210 --> 02:31.420 that at some point in the future we're going to have, 02:31.420 --> 02:34.870 the truly important thing is how many of our squadrons, 02:34.870 --> 02:37.230 or ships, for that matter, are operational, 02:37.230 --> 02:39.320 and that seems to have been a major challenge. 02:39.320 --> 02:43.380 We get consistent reports about, you know, pick an airframe. 02:43.380 --> 02:44.950 We have, you know, 110 of 'em, 02:44.950 --> 02:48.980 but on any given day, only 60 of them are ready to go. 02:48.980 --> 02:50.937 Is there a way to improve that, 02:50.937 --> 02:53.070 and what are you focused on to make sure that, 02:53.070 --> 02:57.070 if we have the actual piece of equipment, that it works? 02:57.070 --> 02:59.880 Because that is a frustrating misuse of resources, 02:59.880 --> 03:02.270 if you have something and you can't get it to do 03:02.270 --> 03:04.150 what it is supposed to do. 03:04.150 --> 03:07.390 Along those lines, one of the ways that we've tried 03:07.390 --> 03:10.860 to rationalize the irrational situation I just described 03:10.860 --> 03:13.173 is by relying excessively on the OCO. 03:14.890 --> 03:16.120 Ah, one of my all-time favorite things 03:16.120 --> 03:17.760 was the phrase they came up with last year 03:17.760 --> 03:19.770 where they actually eliminated the subterfuge 03:19.770 --> 03:24.150 and came up with something that they called FOCO, fake OCO, 03:24.150 --> 03:26.370 just being very honest about it. 03:26.370 --> 03:29.460 We want this money, we don't wanna put it on the budget 03:29.460 --> 03:31.800 because we have budget caps to deal with, 03:31.800 --> 03:33.820 so we're gonna call it emergency funding 03:33.820 --> 03:37.640 so it can be, quote, off-budget, unquote, 03:37.640 --> 03:40.070 and the Air Force relies quite a bit on that. 03:40.070 --> 03:42.590 I forget the statistics off the top of my head. 03:42.590 --> 03:46.210 I think it's like $21.6 billion in OCO for the Air Force, 03:46.210 --> 03:47.540 and the estimates were, it was like, 03:47.540 --> 03:49.020 I think less than two billion 03:49.020 --> 03:53.490 that was for actual overseas contingency operations, 03:53.490 --> 03:57.640 so, you know, how you plan to not rely on that longterm 03:57.640 --> 03:59.390 is enormously important, 03:59.390 --> 04:02.340 and tied into all of this, as a number of members, I'm sure, 04:02.340 --> 04:04.520 will raise is the bitter irony 04:04.520 --> 04:07.520 that we also get your unfunded requirements list, 04:07.520 --> 04:09.170 while at the same time we just had 04:09.170 --> 04:13.200 the $3.8 billion reprogramming where money, for instance, 04:13.200 --> 04:17.090 was taken out of the F-35 program to go to the wall, 04:17.090 --> 04:19.550 which, as Ms. Davis helpfully pointed out 04:19.550 --> 04:20.890 in an earlier hearing, 04:20.890 --> 04:25.090 is not in the National Defense Strategy at all. 04:25.090 --> 04:27.110 We are supposed to build the Pentagon budget 04:27.110 --> 04:29.280 and our strategy based on the National Defense Strategy. 04:29.280 --> 04:30.590 It doesn't say anything in there 04:30.590 --> 04:32.840 about money for a southern border wall, 04:32.840 --> 04:35.500 and yet we're gonna take the money out of our programs, 04:35.500 --> 04:37.407 put it in there, and then come back to us and say, 04:37.407 --> 04:39.340 "Oh, it's an unfunded requirement." 04:39.340 --> 04:40.830 It's like, no, it was funded. 04:40.830 --> 04:43.720 You took the money and spent it someplace else. 04:43.720 --> 04:45.397 That is an enormous problem, 04:45.397 --> 04:48.250 and it is causing problems at the Department of Defense, 04:48.250 --> 04:50.490 and we should not simply let that go by, 04:50.490 --> 04:52.680 and then there is the Space Force, 04:52.680 --> 04:54.710 and I will tell you I have always been 04:54.710 --> 04:56.730 fairly ambivalent about that. 04:56.730 --> 05:00.360 At the end of the day, I trusted Mr. Rogers and Mr. Cooper, 05:00.360 --> 05:04.200 as the two chairs of the committee that created it, 05:04.200 --> 05:07.050 and I also trust the fundamental idea behind it, 05:07.050 --> 05:11.470 and that is that space is central to everything we do. 05:11.470 --> 05:14.290 It is the center of our command and control structure. 05:14.290 --> 05:16.150 It makes almost everything we do 05:16.150 --> 05:18.010 within the military operate. 05:18.010 --> 05:19.220 It deserved 05:19.220 --> 05:21.280 to have a special 05:21.280 --> 05:23.400 segment to make sure that we are training the people 05:23.400 --> 05:26.350 who work in that arena properly and for that mission, 05:26.350 --> 05:28.130 and I get that and I understand that 05:28.130 --> 05:31.310 and I think it is a reasonable thing to do. 05:31.310 --> 05:34.050 The concern is, is it just another bureaucracy? 05:34.050 --> 05:38.710 Do we get a better, more focused look at how we take care 05:38.710 --> 05:41.500 of our space needs with the national defense, 05:41.500 --> 05:44.320 or do we get a bunch more generals and a lot more staff 05:44.320 --> 05:45.950 doing basically the same thing? 05:45.950 --> 05:48.490 And I think, General Raymond, that is your great challenge 05:48.490 --> 05:50.130 is to make sure that it works 05:50.130 --> 05:52.070 and in an efficient and effective way 05:52.070 --> 05:54.650 and isn't just another bureaucracy, 05:54.650 --> 05:57.150 and, with that, I will yield to the Ranking Member, 05:57.150 --> 05:59.250 Mr. Thornberry, for his opening statement. 06:00.760 --> 06:01.710 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman, 06:01.710 --> 06:06.710 and lemme join in welcoming each of our witnesses today, 06:06.930 --> 06:11.220 and if this should be General Goldfein's last appearance 06:11.220 --> 06:12.160 before the committee, 06:12.160 --> 06:15.240 I also want to thank him and Dawn 06:15.240 --> 06:20.240 for both of your service to the country over a long period. 06:20.700 --> 06:22.290 It has been exceptional 06:22.290 --> 06:25.470 and not just in your current position, 06:25.470 --> 06:30.470 and we are very grateful for all that both of you have done. 06:31.610 --> 06:33.610 There's no question this is a challenging time 06:33.610 --> 06:35.100 for the Air Force, 06:35.100 --> 06:38.670 not just because much of what we talk about 06:38.670 --> 06:40.630 when we say great power competition 06:40.630 --> 06:42.473 falls on y'alls shoulders, 06:43.400 --> 06:46.410 but also because there's this internal change going on 06:46.410 --> 06:47.493 at the same time. 06:48.470 --> 06:51.510 Now, we've dealt with such situations before, 06:51.510 --> 06:56.510 such as the end of World War II, and came out pretty well, 06:57.060 --> 06:58.170 but 06:58.170 --> 07:02.460 it is a challenging time for each of you, 07:02.460 --> 07:03.430 and, 07:03.430 --> 07:07.680 like we talked about a bit last week with the Navy, 07:07.680 --> 07:11.933 I think what's most helpful is if we can have 07:11.933 --> 07:13.410 a 07:13.410 --> 07:15.180 not necessarily 07:15.180 --> 07:18.137 every detail laid out but 07:18.137 --> 07:20.118 a plan, 07:20.118 --> 07:21.960 an approach, going forward. 07:21.960 --> 07:23.980 Now, that's particularly true when it comes to space 07:23.980 --> 07:25.760 because you're a new organization. 07:25.760 --> 07:30.570 We're all beginning to think of space in different ways 07:30.570 --> 07:32.330 as a war-fighting domain, 07:32.330 --> 07:35.540 and we need that sort of vision about where we oughta go, 07:35.540 --> 07:37.940 but it's also true with the Air Force. 07:37.940 --> 07:41.047 The controversy over the last week was somebody saying, 07:41.047 --> 07:43.678 "We don't need any manned fighters anymore," 07:43.678 --> 07:46.760 and technology is changing. 07:46.760 --> 07:48.080 Adversaries are changing, 07:48.080 --> 07:51.380 and so this vision of where we move forward, 07:51.380 --> 07:53.000 to me, is just as important 07:53.000 --> 07:56.240 as this particular year's budget request. 07:56.240 --> 07:59.150 They need obviously to go together, 07:59.150 --> 08:01.770 but, as I say, there's a lot on y'alls plates, 08:01.770 --> 08:05.940 but I have full confidence in your ability to deal with it. 08:05.940 --> 08:08.240 Thanks for being here, I yield back. 08:08.240 --> 08:09.073 - Thank you. 08:09.073 --> 08:12.483 Secretary Barrett, or I'm assuming you're going first. 08:13.800 --> 08:14.633 Go ahead. 08:16.430 --> 08:18.450 - Chairman Smith, Ranking Member Thornberry, 08:18.450 --> 08:19.840 members of the committee, 08:19.840 --> 08:23.300 thank you for inviting us to appear before you today. 08:23.300 --> 08:24.850 I'm especially privileged to be joined 08:24.850 --> 08:26.900 by two exemplary chiefs, 08:26.900 --> 08:29.900 Chief Goldfein on what may be his last appearance 08:29.900 --> 08:32.780 before this committee as the Chief of Staff 08:32.780 --> 08:34.580 of the United States Air Force, 08:34.580 --> 08:35.520 and 08:35.520 --> 08:38.293 the exemplary Chief J. Raymond, 08:39.480 --> 08:41.850 who is the Chief of Space Operations 08:41.850 --> 08:43.763 and leading that in its stand-up. 08:45.530 --> 08:47.140 The international security environment 08:47.140 --> 08:49.590 changes unpredictably. 08:49.590 --> 08:52.610 China and Russia challenge American capabilities 08:52.610 --> 08:55.110 with new technologies and systems. 08:55.110 --> 08:58.080 Iran and North Korea threaten regional and global stability 08:58.080 --> 09:01.730 while violent extremism remains a global menace. 09:01.730 --> 09:03.560 The National Defense Strategy calls on 09:03.560 --> 09:05.880 the Department of the Air Force as a critical component 09:05.880 --> 09:09.810 of the joint force to deter and, if deterrence fails, 09:09.810 --> 09:11.930 to defeat these threats. 09:11.930 --> 09:13.770 This fiscal year's, 09:13.770 --> 09:15.700 the 2021 09:15.700 --> 09:17.260 budget request, 09:17.260 --> 09:21.150 sets the course for the department to accomplish these aims. 09:21.150 --> 09:23.030 Specifically, the Department of the Air Force 09:23.030 --> 09:25.910 invests in future forces that allow us 09:25.910 --> 09:30.210 to connect the joint force, dominate space, 09:30.210 --> 09:34.540 generate combat power, and conduct logistics under attack. 09:34.540 --> 09:37.430 We will continue to present ready forces 09:37.430 --> 09:40.780 to combatant commanders as we defend the homeland, 09:40.780 --> 09:44.853 build strategic deterrents, and counter violent extremism. 09:46.110 --> 09:49.080 Finally, we will strengthen the foundation of our forces, 09:49.080 --> 09:51.840 our airmen, and space professionals 09:51.840 --> 09:55.920 as we develop and care for our people and their families. 09:55.920 --> 09:58.530 This budget submission shifts force design 09:58.530 --> 10:02.190 to create irreversible momentum toward achieving the mission 10:02.190 --> 10:04.080 of the National Defense Strategy 10:04.080 --> 10:08.790 while growing strong and resilient leaders and families. 10:08.790 --> 10:10.900 The top policy priority for the department 10:10.900 --> 10:14.290 is the successful launch of the United States Space Force. 10:14.290 --> 10:18.230 The space domain is integral to the joint team's success, 10:18.230 --> 10:22.340 not just in space but in all war-fighting domains. 10:22.340 --> 10:26.255 The Department of the Air Force supports a lean, 10:26.255 --> 10:28.210 agile Space Force 10:28.210 --> 10:32.170 to preserve access to space for America and our allies 10:32.170 --> 10:34.060 while deterring and, if necessary, 10:34.060 --> 10:36.033 defeating malicious actors. 10:37.370 --> 10:39.500 The success of the United States Space Force 10:39.500 --> 10:42.840 will be measured by how well we protect freedom of access 10:42.840 --> 10:46.240 to, through, and from space. 10:46.240 --> 10:50.030 In space and air, our most important investment 10:50.030 --> 10:52.180 is in connecting the joint force. 10:52.180 --> 10:55.430 We are developing the technologies to connect every sensor, 10:55.430 --> 10:58.070 every shooter, and every echelon of command 10:58.070 --> 11:02.430 to enable seamless joint all-domain operations. 11:02.430 --> 11:04.330 This battle network is essential 11:04.330 --> 11:07.260 to defeating current and future threats. 11:07.260 --> 11:10.120 We are also directing pivotal resources to recruit 11:10.120 --> 11:14.340 and retain the best people our nation has to offer. 11:14.340 --> 11:17.260 We are an inclusive and diverse force 11:17.260 --> 11:19.570 and are modernizing our promotion system 11:19.570 --> 11:21.930 while investing in the professional development 11:21.930 --> 11:24.820 of airmen and space professionals. 11:24.820 --> 11:27.450 The department is expanding ongoing efforts 11:27.450 --> 11:29.770 to support and care for families. 11:29.770 --> 11:34.000 We are tackling privatized housing and PFOS challenges. 11:34.000 --> 11:35.480 Along with our sister services, 11:35.480 --> 11:37.700 we encourage state reciprocity 11:37.700 --> 11:39.920 for occupational licensing for spouses 11:39.920 --> 11:42.520 and quality schools for our children, 11:42.520 --> 11:45.210 and we are investing in professionally-designed 11:45.210 --> 11:50.210 and advised programs to reduce suicides and sexual assaults. 11:50.420 --> 11:52.730 To fund future air and space forces 11:52.730 --> 11:54.530 that are capable of defending the nation 11:54.530 --> 11:56.560 against a peer competitor, 11:56.560 --> 12:00.290 we must divest some aging legacy systems. 12:00.290 --> 12:03.890 This budget retires limited numbers of aircraft, 12:03.890 --> 12:06.720 consolidating resources to increase readiness 12:06.720 --> 12:08.220 in remaining aircraft, 12:08.220 --> 12:12.650 and invest in recapitalization and modernization. 12:12.650 --> 12:15.920 This includes investing in GPS III satellites 12:15.920 --> 12:18.330 with signals that are three times more accurate 12:18.330 --> 12:21.450 and up to eight times more anti-jam resilient 12:21.450 --> 12:23.483 than previous generations. 12:24.670 --> 12:27.170 We thank this committee and the entire Congress 12:27.170 --> 12:29.370 for fully funding the recovery efforts 12:29.370 --> 12:33.260 to rebuild Tyndall and Offutt Air Force bases. 12:33.260 --> 12:35.130 We will seek additional support 12:35.130 --> 12:37.200 as our installations and personnel 12:37.200 --> 12:42.020 assist with the ongoing COVID-19 quarantine. 12:42.020 --> 12:44.280 Ladies and gentlemen, with your continued support, 12:44.280 --> 12:48.000 America's air and space forces stand ready. 12:48.000 --> 12:49.700 We look forward to your questions. 12:50.870 --> 12:52.660 - Thank you. General Goldfein. 12:52.660 --> 12:54.480 - Chairman Smith, Ranking Member Thornberry, 12:54.480 --> 12:57.130 distinguished members of the committee, 12:57.130 --> 13:00.050 it's an honor to present my last budget submission 13:00.050 --> 13:03.420 for the first time with both Secretary Barbara Barrett, 13:03.420 --> 13:05.610 the 25th secretary of the Air Force, 13:05.610 --> 13:09.830 and General J. Raymond, the first Chief of Space Operations. 13:09.830 --> 13:12.323 These are indeed historic times. 13:13.290 --> 13:15.310 So I'll defer all discussion on space matters 13:15.310 --> 13:17.060 to Chief Raymond, 13:17.060 --> 13:19.320 but I want you to know it is my top priority 13:19.320 --> 13:22.393 to make him and his new service successful. 13:23.880 --> 13:25.403 So my bottom line upfront: 13:26.550 --> 13:29.740 this budget, building on the last three, 13:29.740 --> 13:33.150 offers the most aggressive package of strategic trades 13:33.150 --> 13:36.840 we have made as a department in over two decades 13:36.840 --> 13:38.920 to achieve complete alignment 13:38.920 --> 13:40.950 with the National Defense Strategy 13:40.950 --> 13:44.060 and secure our nation's military superiority 13:44.060 --> 13:45.173 for the next decade. 13:46.110 --> 13:49.510 Secretary Esper's guidance for this budget build 13:49.510 --> 13:50.853 was crystal clear: 13:51.850 --> 13:55.000 build an Air Force and a Space Force 13:55.000 --> 13:57.760 that can compete, deter, and win 13:57.760 --> 14:00.250 shoulder-to-shoulder with our joint teammates 14:00.250 --> 14:02.090 and our allies and partners 14:02.090 --> 14:05.933 against a nuclear peer in an era of great power competition. 14:06.930 --> 14:11.010 This budget is designed to achieve this objective, 14:11.010 --> 14:13.850 and we're asking for your support to make the tough 14:13.850 --> 14:16.253 but necessary trades we'll discuss today. 14:17.990 --> 14:20.540 In numerous war games against our best assessment 14:20.540 --> 14:23.410 of the threat in 2030 and beyond, 14:23.410 --> 14:25.330 as Secretary Barrett stated, 14:25.330 --> 14:28.160 we found that investment in four key areas 14:28.160 --> 14:30.783 provided the Air Force we need to prevail. 14:32.160 --> 14:35.290 First, this budget connects the joint force 14:35.290 --> 14:37.590 in ways we are not today connected 14:37.590 --> 14:40.303 in order to truly fight as a joint team. 14:41.400 --> 14:44.820 Under the leadership of our chairman, General Mark Milley, 14:44.820 --> 14:49.270 the joint chiefs and combatant commanders are fully engaged 14:49.270 --> 14:51.500 in developing a new doctrine of warfare 14:51.500 --> 14:53.823 called joint all-domain operations. 14:55.090 --> 14:56.920 Under this new war-fighting construct, 14:56.920 --> 15:00.330 the Air Force is the designated lead service 15:00.330 --> 15:03.450 to connect platforms, sensors, and weapons 15:03.450 --> 15:07.490 from all domains, all services, and our allies and partners 15:08.560 --> 15:11.323 so we can truly operate at the speed of relevance. 15:12.620 --> 15:14.900 We call it joint all-domain command and control, 15:14.900 --> 15:19.223 or JADC2 for short, and we're moving out quickly. 15:20.270 --> 15:23.010 Every four months, we host a demonstration 15:24.080 --> 15:27.080 and link joint capabilities that are not currently connected 15:27.080 --> 15:29.930 to advance joint all-domain operations to the next level. 15:32.110 --> 15:35.050 I look forward to describing what we've achieved to date 15:35.050 --> 15:37.150 and where we're headed during questioning. 15:38.060 --> 15:40.210 Second, we must dominate space. 15:40.210 --> 15:41.700 Chief Raymond will cover investments 15:41.700 --> 15:43.600 in this critical domain of operations, 15:44.490 --> 15:47.650 and our third area of focus is generating combat power, 15:47.650 --> 15:49.550 beginning with our nuclear enterprise. 15:50.600 --> 15:52.770 This budget moves us forward to recapitalize 15:52.770 --> 15:54.580 our two legs of the triad 15:54.580 --> 15:56.620 and the critical nuclear command and control 15:56.620 --> 15:58.720 that ties it all together. 15:58.720 --> 16:02.770 Fourth, this budget invests in a new way of approaching 16:02.770 --> 16:05.650 how we keep our joint team deployed and sustained 16:05.650 --> 16:08.100 in contested combat environments. 16:08.100 --> 16:10.940 We must assume our logistics enterprise 16:10.940 --> 16:12.223 will be under attack, 16:13.580 --> 16:15.320 but this foundation of this budget submission 16:15.320 --> 16:17.910 is the greatest treasure in our nation's arsenal: 16:17.910 --> 16:20.823 our airmen and those who will join the Space Force. 16:22.120 --> 16:23.680 We look forward to working with this committee 16:23.680 --> 16:25.440 to ensure we keep faith 16:25.440 --> 16:27.690 with the airmen that will defend our nation 16:27.690 --> 16:30.473 and support their families entrusted to our care. 16:31.940 --> 16:33.080 As this committee is aware, 16:33.080 --> 16:37.050 the '21 top line is relatively flat from last year, 16:37.050 --> 16:39.520 well short of the three to 5% growth 16:39.520 --> 16:43.030 required to properly support the NDS. 16:43.030 --> 16:44.790 In a flat budget environment, 16:44.790 --> 16:48.933 if a service is to move forward, it must do two things. 16:50.050 --> 16:53.020 It must make better use of what it has 16:53.020 --> 16:55.890 by connecting all platforms, sensors, and weapons 16:55.890 --> 16:58.993 in a battlefield network, JADC2, 17:00.350 --> 17:02.670 and it must find internal savings 17:02.670 --> 17:05.100 to pay for new capabilities. 17:05.100 --> 17:07.970 So Chief Raymond and I held our own night court 17:07.970 --> 17:11.950 and identified $21 billion across the FYDP 17:11.950 --> 17:14.860 by retiring the oldest of our legacy weapon systems 17:15.920 --> 17:17.640 that are either not survivable 17:17.640 --> 17:21.193 or did not contribute significantly to the 2030 peer fight. 17:22.450 --> 17:24.050 Not one of these trades is easy. 17:25.960 --> 17:28.010 Every weapon system we are asking to retire 17:28.010 --> 17:30.010 has performed well in the current fight, 17:30.970 --> 17:32.740 but many are at the end of their service life 17:32.740 --> 17:34.890 and have no future in a nuclear peer fight. 17:36.140 --> 17:37.713 This is today's hard reality. 17:39.410 --> 17:41.610 Not surprisingly, of the services, 17:41.610 --> 17:43.420 the Air and Space Forces have the largest 17:43.420 --> 17:46.143 classified portfolio of investment. 17:47.290 --> 17:49.210 This makes the story harder to tell 17:50.300 --> 17:51.720 since most of what we are retiring 17:51.720 --> 17:53.600 is unclassified and visible 17:54.850 --> 17:56.810 while many of our game-changing investments 17:56.810 --> 17:58.760 are classified and therefore invisible, 18:00.500 --> 18:01.700 and we wanna thank many of you 18:01.700 --> 18:04.110 for taking our classified briefing 18:04.110 --> 18:06.280 and offer it to any of you or your staff 18:06.280 --> 18:07.900 between now and end-game. 18:07.900 --> 18:10.340 When you see what we're trading for, 18:10.340 --> 18:12.793 our budget submission will make perfect sense. 18:14.400 --> 18:16.160 If we are to achieve truly meaningful gains 18:16.160 --> 18:17.910 for our nation's security 18:17.910 --> 18:21.330 through implementing the NDS in a flat budget environment, 18:21.330 --> 18:23.803 we must work together on these hard trades. 18:25.880 --> 18:28.240 Chairman, I'm honored to be the 21st Chief of Staff 18:28.240 --> 18:29.233 of the Air Force. 18:30.120 --> 18:33.750 If we go to war this year against a nuclear peer, 18:33.750 --> 18:36.603 I am 100% confident we have what we need to win, 18:37.630 --> 18:39.100 and I can say that 18:39.100 --> 18:42.240 because of decisions made by our predecessors, 18:42.240 --> 18:44.920 men like John Jumper and Mike Ryan, 18:44.920 --> 18:48.113 such as the lead time for building an air and a space force. 18:49.530 --> 18:51.290 I believe it is our job to ensure that, 18:51.290 --> 18:56.137 when Air Chief 24 sits in front of this committee in 2030 18:57.150 --> 19:00.003 side-by-side with Space Chief number four, 19:00.940 --> 19:03.640 they will be able to state with equal confidence 19:03.640 --> 19:05.590 that our nation's air and space forces 19:05.590 --> 19:08.240 have what they need to win, 19:08.240 --> 19:11.670 and, with your support, we can achieve this goal. 19:11.670 --> 19:12.503 Thank you, sir. 19:14.750 --> 19:16.490 - Chairman Smith, Ranking Member Thornberry, 19:16.490 --> 19:18.040 distinguished members of the committee, 19:18.040 --> 19:21.170 it's an honor to testify before this committee this morning. 19:21.170 --> 19:23.877 This is my first appearance in front of the entire committee 19:23.877 --> 19:26.520 and I think it underscores the significance our nation 19:26.520 --> 19:30.330 has placed in elevating space to a level of commensurate 19:30.330 --> 19:32.740 with its importance to national security. 19:32.740 --> 19:34.450 Since the historic establishment 19:34.450 --> 19:38.420 of the United States Space Force on December 20th, 2019, 19:38.420 --> 19:40.960 we've been moving out with speed and focus 19:40.960 --> 19:43.860 to meet the requirements of the National Defense Strategy. 19:45.980 --> 19:48.740 As the Space Force's first Chief of Space Operations, 19:48.740 --> 19:52.600 I am humbled by the great responsibility entrusted to me, 19:52.600 --> 19:54.900 and on behalf of the space professionals 19:54.900 --> 19:56.470 that I am privileged to lead, 19:56.470 --> 19:59.130 I would like to personally thank you for your leadership 19:59.130 --> 20:02.020 in establishing our new service. 20:02.020 --> 20:04.270 Under the strong leadership of Secretary Barrett, 20:04.270 --> 20:05.650 and I would note that the secretary 20:05.650 --> 20:09.110 made the establishment of the United States Space Force 20:09.110 --> 20:11.330 the number one priority for the Department of the Air Force, 20:11.330 --> 20:13.940 and shoulder-to-shoulder with my partner 20:13.940 --> 20:16.330 and fellow service chief Dave Goldfein, 20:16.330 --> 20:17.860 we are establishing a space force 20:17.860 --> 20:21.173 that is lean, agile, and mission-focused. 20:22.240 --> 20:24.920 You have given us an opportunity to build this service 20:24.920 --> 20:27.410 to enhance the lethality of our joint force 20:27.410 --> 20:30.413 while optimizing our ability to dominate in space. 20:31.410 --> 20:34.010 I wanna also, if you'll allow me to, 20:34.010 --> 20:37.610 take a minute to thank Dave and Dawn Goldfein 20:37.610 --> 20:40.030 for their leadership in the United States Air Force. 20:40.030 --> 20:41.450 I've had the privilege of serving 20:41.450 --> 20:44.140 under General Goldfein's leadership for several years, 20:44.140 --> 20:45.260 and I've known him longer. 20:45.260 --> 20:47.010 I will tell you leadership is a team sport, 20:47.010 --> 20:49.350 and there is no better team to follow 20:49.350 --> 20:52.790 than Dave and Dawn Goldfein, so, sir, thank you. 20:52.790 --> 20:54.860 For the decades, the United States has had the luxury 20:54.860 --> 20:57.050 of operating in a benign space environment, 20:57.050 --> 20:59.130 operating the world's best capabilities 20:59.130 --> 21:00.910 to fuel our American way of life 21:00.910 --> 21:02.770 and our American way of war. 21:02.770 --> 21:05.800 Today, potential adversaries have taken notice 21:05.800 --> 21:07.900 and are catching up fast. 21:07.900 --> 21:09.880 Although we remain the best in the world, 21:09.880 --> 21:12.750 our advantage is eroding as adversaries are building 21:12.750 --> 21:15.230 space capabilities for their own benefit 21:15.230 --> 21:17.130 and fielding counterspace systems 21:17.130 --> 21:19.007 to negate our access to space 21:19.007 --> 21:21.380 and the advantage that that access provides 21:21.380 --> 21:23.780 to our nation and those of our allies. 21:23.780 --> 21:26.000 This budget prioritizes space. 21:26.000 --> 21:29.140 It funds it to a level of $15.4 billion, 21:29.140 --> 21:31.850 representing approximately a $900 million increase 21:31.850 --> 21:32.853 this fiscal year. 21:33.930 --> 21:36.320 Specifically, the budget funds for a strong pivot 21:36.320 --> 21:39.610 toward space superiority and the foundational elements 21:39.610 --> 21:42.100 of Space Situational Awareness, command and control, 21:42.100 --> 21:44.540 and training infrastructure that's required. 21:44.540 --> 21:46.350 Our National Defense Strategy demands it, 21:46.350 --> 21:48.460 and I appreciate the support you've provided 21:48.460 --> 21:50.030 over the last couple of years, 21:50.030 --> 21:52.560 and I ask for your strong support once again. 21:52.560 --> 21:55.210 You know, it's been 73 years since the United States 21:55.210 --> 21:56.600 established a separate armed service. 21:56.600 --> 21:58.410 That was the Air Force. 21:58.410 --> 22:01.520 I've spent 35 and 1/2 years in that service, 22:01.520 --> 22:03.440 proudly in that service, 22:03.440 --> 22:07.290 but, in December, I transferred over to the Space Force, 22:07.290 --> 22:09.970 and now I'm about a little over two months in. 22:09.970 --> 22:12.620 We have been given an unprecedented opportunity 22:12.620 --> 22:15.450 to build a service unconstrained by past constraint, 22:15.450 --> 22:17.270 constructs, and thinking, 22:17.270 --> 22:19.430 and we are taking full advantage of this occasion 22:19.430 --> 22:20.730 to do just that 22:20.730 --> 22:23.120 with a forward-looking, innovative approach 22:23.120 --> 22:26.280 that seeks to optimize manning, flatten organizations, 22:26.280 --> 22:29.943 and streamline processes necessary to move at speed. 22:30.887 --> 22:34.300 When fully established, we may not look like other services 22:34.300 --> 22:36.170 you've become accustomed to, 22:36.170 --> 22:39.470 but we will be equally proficient 22:39.470 --> 22:41.410 at providing space forces ready 22:41.410 --> 22:45.330 and willing to protect the US, allied interests, and space 22:45.330 --> 22:48.670 while providing unequaled capability to the joint force. 22:48.670 --> 22:50.620 This is critical, given the war-fighting domain 22:50.620 --> 22:52.470 that we find ourselves in today. 22:52.470 --> 22:55.220 To that end, I am so proud of the professionals 22:55.220 --> 22:56.740 that I am privileged to lead. 22:56.740 --> 22:59.370 They are conducting their mission with an eager boldness 22:59.370 --> 23:00.720 that will ensure America remains 23:00.720 --> 23:02.640 the best in the world at space, 23:02.640 --> 23:03.900 and we look forward to your questions. 23:03.900 --> 23:05.780 Thank you for the opportunity. 23:05.780 --> 23:06.650 - Thank you all very much. 23:06.650 --> 23:09.370 I have obviously many, many questions, 23:09.370 --> 23:10.430 but I'll narrow it down to one 23:10.430 --> 23:14.510 'cause I've had the opportunity to speak with you before. 23:14.510 --> 23:17.410 This part of a discussion on the budget 23:17.410 --> 23:20.394 in the nuclear area, General Goldfein. 23:20.394 --> 23:21.870 The NNSA budget 23:21.870 --> 23:23.300 was 23:23.300 --> 23:25.540 roughly $17.5 billion. 23:25.540 --> 23:27.680 There was concern about that, and, at the last minute, 23:27.680 --> 23:30.710 there was $2.5 billion put back in 23:30.710 --> 23:33.200 and taken away from some other things, 23:33.200 --> 23:35.410 and those some other things are not happy about it, 23:35.410 --> 23:39.180 but, for the moment, focusing on that $2.5 billion, 23:39.180 --> 23:41.610 can you explain to us what it is, 23:41.610 --> 23:45.000 how important it is to the overall nuclear enterprise, 23:45.000 --> 23:48.700 and, if it's important, why the president's original budget 23:48.700 --> 23:49.773 didn't have it in it? 23:51.600 --> 23:55.230 - Sir, as you know, there's a balance between NNSA 23:55.230 --> 23:57.050 that gives us the actual warheads 23:57.050 --> 23:58.520 and then the Department of Defense. 23:58.520 --> 23:59.360 - [Smith] Understood. 23:59.360 --> 24:02.030 - And it's always a balancing act between the two, 24:02.030 --> 24:03.383 and, as I understand, 24:04.870 --> 24:08.350 at end-game when they took a look at the investment 24:08.350 --> 24:10.570 that we required to get the warheads we need 24:10.570 --> 24:13.550 balanced with the investment we're making in the enterprise 24:13.550 --> 24:17.910 for the bomb bodies, delivery mechanisms, 24:17.910 --> 24:21.280 that the department made a decision at the OSD level 24:21.280 --> 24:24.150 to put money in the NNSA accounts, 24:24.150 --> 24:26.803 or that's about as much detail as I understand on that. 24:27.996 --> 24:29.880 - OK. 24:29.880 --> 24:32.490 But you're putting together the nuclear enterprise here, 24:32.490 --> 24:37.370 so you got the $2.5 billion, you don't got the $2.5 billion. 24:37.370 --> 24:40.240 How does that affect your ability to get our nuclear forces 24:40.240 --> 24:41.700 where you think they need to be? 24:41.700 --> 24:45.370 - So right now the impact has been minimal on the Air Force 24:45.370 --> 24:47.200 based on the fact that what you'll see in our budget 24:47.200 --> 24:49.440 is fully-funded for our nuclear programs, 24:49.440 --> 24:51.500 so we were able to put the money that's required 24:51.500 --> 24:53.950 for the B21, the long-range standoff, 24:53.950 --> 24:56.513 and the ground-based strategic deterrent, 24:56.513 --> 24:58.350 those were fully funded in our program, 24:58.350 --> 25:00.440 so the $2.5 actually didn't have an impact on the Air Force. 25:00.440 --> 25:02.800 - Well, no, I understand that. 25:02.800 --> 25:04.800 I'm speaking to you as first (mumbles), 25:04.800 --> 25:08.100 and I also understand that NNSA is in charge of, you know, 25:08.100 --> 25:09.390 giving you the material you need 25:09.390 --> 25:11.530 to put into all these things, 25:11.530 --> 25:13.300 but you are kind of overseeing 25:13.300 --> 25:15.400 to make sure that you don't just have a B21. 25:15.400 --> 25:17.394 You actually have the nuclear missiles in it 25:17.394 --> 25:19.410 to make it useful, 25:19.410 --> 25:23.020 so you don't have an opinion on that $2.5 billion fight? 25:23.020 --> 25:25.470 - Sir, I don't only because it was happening 25:25.470 --> 25:26.940 at a much higher level. 25:26.940 --> 25:30.610 You know, what we brought forward was a fully-funded program 25:30.610 --> 25:31.649 for all of the portions 25:31.649 --> 25:34.620 that the Air Force is responsible for. 25:34.620 --> 25:37.210 One of the areas that is very similar 25:37.210 --> 25:40.520 to what you're describing is nuclear command and control 25:40.520 --> 25:42.390 and making sure that our portion, 25:42.390 --> 25:45.340 which is about 75% of what all comes together, 25:45.340 --> 25:48.080 and maybe Chief Raymond may pitch in here 25:48.080 --> 25:50.940 because so much of what we do in nuclear command and control 25:50.940 --> 25:52.780 is actually done from space, 25:52.780 --> 25:53.970 but we also needed to make sure 25:53.970 --> 25:56.160 that that portion was fully funded. 25:56.160 --> 25:56.993 - Understood. 25:58.050 --> 26:00.450 That's all I have, I'll yield to Mr. Thornberry. 26:03.000 --> 26:06.490 - General Goldfein, you were describing what's required 26:06.490 --> 26:11.310 to keep the Air Force moving forward in a flat budget. 26:11.310 --> 26:14.240 I'd respectfully add one more thing to your list, 26:14.240 --> 26:16.450 and that is get your money on time 26:16.450 --> 26:20.530 because you can do more if you've got a whole year to plan 26:20.530 --> 26:23.123 versus some of the other alternatives, 26:24.855 --> 26:27.320 and that makes a difference too. 26:27.320 --> 26:31.730 Lemme pick up on kinda part of where the chairman was going. 26:31.730 --> 26:35.410 So the Air Force is responsible for two legs of the triad 26:35.410 --> 26:38.260 plus a large part of nuclear command and control. 26:38.260 --> 26:39.093 There are some people who suggest, 26:39.093 --> 26:42.677 "Well, it's not that big a deal if we can delay replacement 26:42.677 --> 26:46.537 "of the land-based leg of the triad or, you know, 26:46.537 --> 26:49.160 "maybe manned bombers were a thing of the past." 26:49.160 --> 26:50.990 Can you just briefly describe 26:52.170 --> 26:55.730 your view on where we are with those programs 26:55.730 --> 26:58.230 that are under the Air Force responsibility 26:58.230 --> 27:00.930 and how much slack there is or is not 27:00.930 --> 27:03.790 in the schedule and funding for those? 27:03.790 --> 27:06.050 - Yes, sir, unfortunately that we've actually delayed 27:06.050 --> 27:08.780 this recapitalization point where we really don't have 27:08.780 --> 27:11.693 any slop left in the schedule. 27:13.040 --> 27:15.600 The Minuteman missile is 44 years old. 27:15.600 --> 27:17.720 We're getting to a point where there's time components 27:17.720 --> 27:20.300 in that missile that you actually no longer have vendors 27:20.300 --> 27:22.883 that can produce those and, 27:23.820 --> 27:26.870 quite frankly, we're behind our adversaries in many ways. 27:26.870 --> 27:31.030 Russia has actually completed its triad recapitalization, 27:31.030 --> 27:32.800 and we're actually just getting started in ours, 27:32.800 --> 27:36.440 so we really have not allowed any slop in the system 27:36.440 --> 27:38.550 right now for us to be able to go forward 27:38.550 --> 27:41.120 and do anything but recapitalize all three legs, 27:41.120 --> 27:43.210 and I would just finish on saying that 27:43.210 --> 27:46.810 the Nuclear Posture Review that we all went through 27:46.810 --> 27:51.480 reconfirmed the need for all three legs of the triad, 27:51.480 --> 27:54.210 and I think Admiral Richard confirmed that as well 27:54.210 --> 27:56.033 in his testimony early last week. 27:58.310 --> 27:59.240 - OK. 27:59.240 --> 28:03.130 General Raymond, one of the questions involving Space Force 28:03.130 --> 28:06.850 is who's responsible for space acquisition? 28:06.850 --> 28:08.850 And I know there's a bit of a tussle maybe, 28:08.850 --> 28:11.700 or I understand there may be a bit of a tussle going on 28:11.700 --> 28:13.050 in the department and so forth. 28:13.050 --> 28:18.050 Can you just give us a few comments on space acquisition, 28:18.070 --> 28:22.350 who decides, and how you see that going forward? 28:22.350 --> 28:23.183 - That's a great question. 28:23.183 --> 28:26.760 I think one of the benefits of standing up a space force, 28:26.760 --> 28:29.560 near-term benefits, will be to bring some unity of effort 28:29.560 --> 28:32.060 across the department towards that end. 28:32.060 --> 28:35.200 One of the homework assignments that was in the NDAA was 28:35.200 --> 28:37.580 for us to come back to Congress with 28:38.510 --> 28:41.250 a process for how we wanted to do acquisition. 28:41.250 --> 28:42.630 We're going through that right now. 28:42.630 --> 28:44.930 In my opinion, I think there's a way to do this to, 28:44.930 --> 28:48.810 one, keep the speed up 'cause we have to move fast. 28:48.810 --> 28:53.470 Two, unite efforts across a group of folks that do this 28:53.470 --> 28:54.760 towards a common architecture, 28:54.760 --> 28:56.720 that we're all growing in the same direction, 28:56.720 --> 28:57.810 and reduce duplication. 28:57.810 --> 28:59.600 I'm excited for the prospects. 28:59.600 --> 29:01.910 I think you expect the Space Force to deliver that to you, 29:01.910 --> 29:02.780 and we're working that hard. 29:02.780 --> 29:04.730 We've already got the team putting that together. 29:04.730 --> 29:07.350 I'm gonna see the draft of that this next week, 29:07.350 --> 29:09.163 and it'll be coming to meet the timelines 29:09.163 --> 29:10.403 that Congress laid out. 29:12.970 --> 29:14.780 - [Smith] Mr. Larsen. 29:14.780 --> 29:15.890 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 29:15.890 --> 29:18.120 General Goldfein, I'm also the chair 29:18.120 --> 29:20.700 of the Aviation Subcommittee, 29:20.700 --> 29:24.490 and so we deal a lot with pilots and pilot shortages, 29:24.490 --> 29:26.987 and so I wanted to ask you about 29:26.987 --> 29:29.730 how the US Air Force is thinking about pilot shortages, 29:29.730 --> 29:31.760 and, as well, maybe the bow wave, 29:31.760 --> 29:34.270 the idea of the recapitalization 29:34.270 --> 29:36.510 and the kinda platforms we might be flying 29:36.510 --> 29:39.063 and where the numbers of seats 29:39.063 --> 29:41.020 and the number of rear ends in the seats 29:41.020 --> 29:43.820 meets the number of platforms that actually need 'em 29:43.820 --> 29:46.730 versus the transition to unmanned. 29:46.730 --> 29:48.760 - Now, thanks, sir, and thanks for your leadership on this. 29:48.760 --> 29:50.240 We've said it from the beginning: 29:50.240 --> 29:51.360 this is a national-level issue, 29:51.360 --> 29:53.040 not an Air Force-level issue. 29:53.040 --> 29:55.050 The nation actually is not producing enough pilots 29:55.050 --> 29:58.890 to service military, commercial, and business aviation. 29:58.890 --> 30:01.300 From the military standpoint, 30:01.300 --> 30:05.420 as the airlines continue to hire in large numbers, 30:05.420 --> 30:07.880 we're about holding our own, I would describe right now, 30:07.880 --> 30:09.030 in terms of our pilot shortage. 30:09.030 --> 30:10.370 We're about two thousand short. 30:10.370 --> 30:12.660 We've been about two thousand short. 30:12.660 --> 30:14.160 That's against a denominator of about 30:14.160 --> 30:18.350 a 21 thousand pilot requirement across the Air Force. 30:18.350 --> 30:22.670 We're starting to see positive trends in terms of retention, 30:22.670 --> 30:25.470 but it's too early to declare any kinda victory. 30:25.470 --> 30:27.250 Congress has been very helpful 30:27.250 --> 30:32.140 with the authorization you have given us for bonuses, 30:32.140 --> 30:33.780 but I will tell you that most pilots 30:33.780 --> 30:35.790 are not truly motivated by money. 30:35.790 --> 30:37.450 It's very important to 'em, 30:37.450 --> 30:40.940 but they are motivated by quality of service, 30:40.940 --> 30:42.640 and everything we're doing as an Air Force 30:42.640 --> 30:45.000 is ensuring that flying in the United States Air Force 30:45.000 --> 30:47.600 is as rich an experience as we can make it, 30:47.600 --> 30:50.260 and we're making that rich at the squadron level, 30:50.260 --> 30:52.730 so I'm seeing positive trends, 30:52.730 --> 30:55.170 but, right now, we're sorta holding our own. 30:55.170 --> 30:56.003 - OK. 30:56.930 --> 31:00.400 So a couple of things that your Air Force is doing, 31:00.400 --> 31:04.560 one is on using AI on predicative maintenance to save costs, 31:04.560 --> 31:06.520 and then the digital design technology, 31:06.520 --> 31:09.210 application of that to the T-7, 31:09.210 --> 31:12.597 but in your testimony especially on the T-7, 31:12.597 --> 31:15.260 you talked about how it's saving money, 31:15.260 --> 31:16.550 so 31:16.550 --> 31:17.383 given that 31:20.634 --> 31:23.600 you found $21 billion in savings to reinvest, 31:25.360 --> 31:28.690 for those two examples, would we find that in the budget 31:28.690 --> 31:30.530 where the money's been saved 31:30.530 --> 31:32.410 and has been put back into something else, 31:32.410 --> 31:35.510 whether that's because of the application and a new design 31:35.510 --> 31:36.750 and the manufacturing process 31:36.750 --> 31:38.280 or because of the money you're saving 31:38.280 --> 31:40.030 on predictive maintenance? 31:40.030 --> 31:42.710 - Sir, in a flat budget with less spending power, 31:42.710 --> 31:45.350 you're not gonna see that money, as much of that money, 31:45.350 --> 31:47.340 in terms of increased investment. 31:47.340 --> 31:50.140 What you're gonna see that is filling the holes we have 31:50.140 --> 31:51.690 in weapon system sustainment, 31:51.690 --> 31:53.810 so you talked about two areas, 31:53.810 --> 31:56.690 one which is how do you use artificial intelligence 31:56.690 --> 31:59.010 when it comes to predictive maintenance. 31:59.010 --> 32:01.160 We have three weapon systems now that we're taking 32:01.160 --> 32:05.220 commercial best practices, C-5 as an example, 32:05.220 --> 32:06.890 and using predictive maintenance 32:06.890 --> 32:10.160 to make sure that we decrease the amount of time in depots, 32:10.160 --> 32:12.770 be more predictive about when we need to put 'em in depot, 32:12.770 --> 32:14.410 and we're actually saving a lotta time 32:14.410 --> 32:15.860 and a significant amount of money. 32:15.860 --> 32:18.330 We're reflowing that back into weapon system sustainment 32:18.330 --> 32:20.313 to drive our readiness rates up. 32:21.210 --> 32:24.450 On the T-7, here's to me the most exciting thing 32:24.450 --> 32:27.473 about the T-7 when I went out and took a look at it. 32:28.710 --> 32:33.240 They engineered this aircraft through digital design, 32:33.240 --> 32:36.120 which is different than digital manufacturing. 32:36.120 --> 32:38.600 They actually designed it through digital means 32:38.600 --> 32:43.506 so that they were able to marry a fuselage with the wing 32:43.506 --> 32:46.513 in some number of hours with like four people. 32:47.420 --> 32:51.930 That's unheard of in the business of aircraft manufacture, 32:51.930 --> 32:54.460 so not only are we designing things well, 32:54.460 --> 32:57.030 we're building them more effectively and more efficiently. 32:57.030 --> 32:59.437 That's gonna result in savings. 32:59.437 --> 33:00.437 - All right. 33:01.330 --> 33:02.760 General Raymond, I had a question for you too, 33:02.760 --> 33:04.430 but why don't I ask you this and then, 33:04.430 --> 33:05.850 with the time left, I'll be quick, 33:05.850 --> 33:10.110 but a question for you is about space professionals and, 33:10.110 --> 33:11.870 given your standup space force, 33:11.870 --> 33:14.190 how many folks you're moving over but where are your gaps 33:14.190 --> 33:17.183 and people that you need to develop to fill in those gaps. 33:18.480 --> 33:20.370 - So, today, there's one person 33:20.370 --> 33:21.687 in the United States Space Force. 33:21.687 --> 33:22.520 That's me. 33:22.520 --> 33:24.890 That's all. - You're doing a great job. 33:24.890 --> 33:27.350 Or he or she is doing a great job, whoever that is. 33:27.350 --> 33:29.390 - In a couple weeks, we're gonna swear in number two, 33:29.390 --> 33:31.490 and that's Chief Master Sergeant Roger Towberman. 33:31.490 --> 33:33.240 There is incredible interest in this. 33:33.240 --> 33:36.560 This May, we're gonna direct commission 33:36.560 --> 33:40.740 just shy of 65 cadets from the Air Force Academy, 33:40.740 --> 33:43.350 directly commissioned into the United States Space Force. 33:43.350 --> 33:47.310 We just advertised 40 positions, civilian positions, 33:47.310 --> 33:49.710 for the staff at the Pentagon. 33:49.710 --> 33:52.570 We had over five thousand applicants for those 40 positions. 33:52.570 --> 33:56.680 There is an excitement about space in every single sector, 33:56.680 --> 34:00.610 and so where we're focusing on is not the support part. 34:00.610 --> 34:04.140 We're gonna rely for about 80% of that work, 34:04.140 --> 34:06.890 all is gonna be relied upon on the Air Force. 34:06.890 --> 34:09.930 What we're doing is building 34:09.930 --> 34:12.860 a mission-focused space expertise 34:12.860 --> 34:16.590 with some related engineering data software cyber 34:16.590 --> 34:18.460 that will be necessary to fight and win this fight 34:18.460 --> 34:19.600 going forward. - All right, 34:19.600 --> 34:22.350 and I'll come back to you later on on a tech question. 34:22.350 --> 34:23.270 Thank you. 34:23.270 --> 34:25.260 - [Smith] Thank you. Mr. Turner. 34:25.260 --> 34:26.480 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 34:26.480 --> 34:28.810 I just wanna clarify a few comments by the chairman 34:28.810 --> 34:31.270 with respect to the NNSA budget. 34:31.270 --> 34:32.500 There really is only, 34:32.500 --> 34:36.180 and I agree with the chairman on the need for clarification 34:36.180 --> 34:39.120 for the NNSA budget so that we have kind of 34:41.182 --> 34:44.070 a debate and hopefully a clarity, 34:44.070 --> 34:46.440 the efficiency and effectiveness of what we're spending, 34:46.440 --> 34:47.273 that we just had a hearing in 34:47.273 --> 34:50.030 the Strategic Forces Subcommittee yesterday 34:50.030 --> 34:53.500 where the administrator, Lisa Gordon-Hagerty, testified. 34:53.500 --> 34:55.860 The only original budget of the president's budget 34:55.860 --> 34:57.360 is the president's budget. 34:57.360 --> 34:59.640 There are always documents that are floating around 34:59.640 --> 35:01.250 of requests for different levels. 35:01.250 --> 35:04.900 NNSA's original request by the administrator 35:04.900 --> 35:07.830 was for the 19 plus seven, I think, 35:07.830 --> 35:09.980 19.7 that actually has moved forward 35:09.980 --> 35:10.813 in the president's budget, 35:10.813 --> 35:13.540 and I know the president was always in support 35:13.540 --> 35:14.643 of that full amount. 35:16.790 --> 35:17.950 We would always hope that, 35:17.950 --> 35:19.640 as the president puts his budget together, 35:19.640 --> 35:22.980 that there is full discussion as to increase or decreases, 35:22.980 --> 35:26.010 but, General Goldfein, I wanna thank you for your service. 35:26.010 --> 35:28.880 I wanna thank you for that you got us through sequestration, 35:28.880 --> 35:32.070 the difficulties of the effects upon readiness, 35:32.070 --> 35:35.210 and seeing the advances that our adversaries have made 35:35.210 --> 35:37.740 in both missiles and fighters and cyber 35:37.740 --> 35:40.950 and unmanned aerial systems and the need to then 35:40.950 --> 35:44.510 fashion a force that can face that in the future. 35:44.510 --> 35:48.363 Do wanna go back to the chairman's issue on the NNSA budget. 35:50.050 --> 35:51.980 I know that you're not in charge of that budget. 35:51.980 --> 35:54.480 NNSA is under DOE, not DOD, 35:54.480 --> 35:55.940 so you wouldn't have been part of putting that together. 35:55.940 --> 35:57.407 I understand your reticence there 35:57.407 --> 35:59.310 of wanting to comment on the elements in their budget. 35:59.310 --> 36:03.150 However, Admiral Richard from US STRICOM commander 36:03.150 --> 36:05.520 testified recently before us 36:05.520 --> 36:09.120 that failure to undertake the NNSA's modernization plan 36:09.120 --> 36:12.580 would be the effect of unilateral disarmament. 36:12.580 --> 36:15.280 General Goldfein, you know what the condition is 36:15.280 --> 36:17.870 of our nuclear forces and what we're facing. 36:17.870 --> 36:19.730 Do you agree with Admiral Richard? 36:19.730 --> 36:21.593 - [Goldfein] Sir, I do. - Okay, excellent. 36:23.420 --> 36:24.253 Madam Secretary, 36:27.010 --> 36:29.320 as we go forward with space force, 36:29.320 --> 36:30.170 I agree with the chairman. 36:30.170 --> 36:32.040 We have to make certain that what we're doing 36:32.040 --> 36:33.620 is effective and efficient, 36:33.620 --> 36:35.770 that we don't just build new bureaucracies, 36:35.770 --> 36:37.563 that we don't duplicate things. 36:38.630 --> 36:40.660 Secretary of Defense Esper was in front of us, 36:40.660 --> 36:42.580 and I raised the issue of NASIC with him, 36:42.580 --> 36:44.520 and General Raymond was before 36:44.520 --> 36:46.130 the Strategic Forces Subcommittee, 36:46.130 --> 36:48.970 and I raised NASIC again with General Raymond. 36:48.970 --> 36:50.990 As you know, the National Air and Space Intelligence Center 36:50.990 --> 36:52.210 actively 36:52.210 --> 36:53.180 works to 36:54.500 --> 36:56.450 bring together intelligence, 36:56.450 --> 36:57.710 both from our space 36:59.010 --> 37:00.460 assets and 37:00.460 --> 37:02.920 looking at the threats that we face 37:02.920 --> 37:04.363 in the air and the space. 37:06.530 --> 37:08.640 Secretary Esper has been to NASIC. 37:08.640 --> 37:12.720 I just spoke before the McAleese Defense Program Conference, 37:12.720 --> 37:14.480 and my first question was about NASIC, 37:14.480 --> 37:15.940 and it wasn't from someone from Ohio, 37:15.940 --> 37:17.200 and it wasn't someone from Dayton, 37:17.200 --> 37:18.680 so even though this is a parochial issue, 37:18.680 --> 37:21.623 it is, I believe, an operational issue for the Air Force. 37:23.590 --> 37:26.710 Secretary Esper said that we do not want to, 37:26.710 --> 37:29.260 as we look to creating 37:29.260 --> 37:31.800 assets that are dedicated to the space force, 37:31.800 --> 37:36.800 break anything that works, duplicate existing missions, 37:36.940 --> 37:41.010 and we, of course, want to avoid unnecessary redundancies. 37:41.010 --> 37:42.430 When you look to the issue 37:42.430 --> 37:44.280 of a National Space Intelligence Center, 37:44.280 --> 37:45.410 like if you would comment, 37:45.410 --> 37:47.040 'cause there are a number of people 37:47.040 --> 37:49.270 throughout the Air Force enterprise 37:49.270 --> 37:50.930 that are as excited, as General Raymond said, 37:50.930 --> 37:54.170 about joining the Space Force 37:54.170 --> 37:55.780 and making certain that it's successful but, 37:55.780 --> 37:57.630 at the same time, don't want the things 37:57.630 --> 37:59.680 that we currently have broken or diminished. 37:59.680 --> 38:00.660 If you could speak about that 38:00.660 --> 38:02.358 for those who are serving at NASIC, 38:02.358 --> 38:04.503 I think it would be very beneficial for them. 38:06.060 --> 38:07.640 Madam Secretary. 38:07.640 --> 38:11.700 - Member Turner, the NASIC is a national treasure. 38:11.700 --> 38:14.770 What it provides is very important 38:14.770 --> 38:17.070 to the entire department of the Air Force, 38:17.070 --> 38:21.990 and with the support of the Secretary of Defense 38:21.990 --> 38:24.240 and the intelligence community, 38:24.240 --> 38:28.230 we would intend to continue and count upon, rely upon, 38:28.230 --> 38:30.913 and not break the expertise that is found at NASIC. 38:32.050 --> 38:34.137 - Thank you, Secretary Barrett. 38:35.950 --> 38:38.960 General Goldfein, we're all concerned about pilots 38:40.080 --> 38:41.320 and the pilot shortage. 38:41.320 --> 38:43.120 In looking to the FY21 request, 38:43.120 --> 38:44.750 there are a number of people who are concerned, obviously, 38:44.750 --> 38:46.950 that it looks like you're decreasing 38:46.950 --> 38:48.350 the number of new pilots 38:50.041 --> 38:51.260 that would in the process through funding. 38:51.260 --> 38:52.290 Could you explain that to us 38:52.290 --> 38:53.890 and give us some insights there? 38:54.830 --> 38:57.280 - Sir, actually we've gone from about 38:57.280 --> 39:00.520 a little over 1100 pilots that we produced in '16 39:00.520 --> 39:05.190 to about 1300 in '17 and we're on track to produce 1480. 39:05.190 --> 39:06.210 That's our target, 39:06.210 --> 39:08.440 and we think if we can get 1480 a year, 39:08.440 --> 39:12.250 we're on track to doing that in '24 or no later than. 39:12.250 --> 39:16.170 Then we'll be able to keep a steady state 39:16.170 --> 39:18.283 of what we need to be able to fly. 39:19.550 --> 39:22.840 Part of what's going on with the reduced numbers is 39:22.840 --> 39:25.370 a combination of grounding. 39:25.370 --> 39:27.200 This last year, we had some issues, as you remember, 39:27.200 --> 39:29.700 with the T-6 and the oxygen system, 39:29.700 --> 39:31.770 and so we lost a number of sorties 39:31.770 --> 39:33.610 that we're not able to make up, 39:33.610 --> 39:36.660 so the numbers, we didn't hit our goal last year. 39:36.660 --> 39:38.420 So now what we're doing is trying to look at 39:38.420 --> 39:40.250 a combination of Pilot Training Next, 39:40.250 --> 39:43.560 which is using new technology to train in a different way 39:43.560 --> 39:45.670 but to the same or higher standard, 39:45.670 --> 39:47.670 to be able to shorten the course length 39:47.670 --> 39:49.710 and increase more pilots. 39:49.710 --> 39:51.370 When I went through-- 39:51.370 --> 39:54.010 - And I'm sorry, if you could wrap up that point. 39:54.010 --> 39:56.440 The gentleman is over time, wanna get to the other members, 39:56.440 --> 39:58.610 but I don't wanna interrupt you, so just wrap up. 39:58.610 --> 39:59.990 - If there's time later, I could talk about 39:59.990 --> 40:00.823 Pilot Training Next. 40:00.823 --> 40:03.003 We're using new technology to train differently. 40:03.003 --> 40:03.955 - [Turner] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 40:03.955 --> 40:07.670 - [Smith] Thank you. Mr. Garamendi. 40:07.670 --> 40:10.190 - General Goldfein, thank you for all the years. 40:10.190 --> 40:11.720 It's been a pleasure working with you, 40:11.720 --> 40:16.273 and I'm sure all of us will miss your competent work. 40:18.370 --> 40:20.570 Several things are on my mind. 40:20.570 --> 40:22.780 Just keep in mind that there's an eight billion dollar 40:22.780 --> 40:24.880 reserve account in the NNSA 40:24.880 --> 40:27.700 that apparently is to be used someday somehow, 40:27.700 --> 40:30.380 so what's another two billion four? 40:30.380 --> 40:33.200 Good question, we should ask that question, 40:33.200 --> 40:35.410 which brings me to an accounting issue. 40:35.410 --> 40:37.780 You're moving money back and forth within the 40:39.030 --> 40:42.610 Air Force accounts, weapon sustainment, 40:42.610 --> 40:45.720 money moving here from flight time 40:46.630 --> 40:48.610 and around OCO money moving. 40:48.610 --> 40:49.740 I'm not gonna get into it, 40:49.740 --> 40:52.050 but I'm asking my staff to get into the details 40:52.050 --> 40:53.680 of your accounting system 40:53.680 --> 40:55.800 so that we can understand where the money is 40:55.800 --> 40:58.460 and for what its purpose is, so not here. 40:58.460 --> 41:00.940 It's far too much detail. 41:00.940 --> 41:03.963 General Raymond, with regard to the Space Force, good. 41:04.850 --> 41:06.000 Eventually, you'll have 41:07.600 --> 41:09.563 the entire force in hand. 41:10.610 --> 41:12.920 I would ask you to keep in mind the role 41:12.920 --> 41:15.940 that the National Guard currently plays in space, 41:15.940 --> 41:18.130 not only in California at Beale Air Force Base, 41:18.130 --> 41:19.303 which is significant. 41:20.140 --> 41:23.610 How you move that in is going to be extremely important 41:23.610 --> 41:27.310 to maintain the capabilities that you presently have. 41:27.310 --> 41:29.280 I would urge you not to break it up. 41:29.280 --> 41:32.030 Bring it in in whole, and we can go into that in detail, 41:32.030 --> 41:34.253 as I did yesterday at the hearing. 41:35.950 --> 41:38.770 The F-35. 41:38.770 --> 41:40.290 Two things about the F-35. 41:40.290 --> 41:41.123 One, 41:42.550 --> 41:43.830 the ALIS system, 41:43.830 --> 41:47.193 I guess we can solve that problem by giving it a new name? 41:48.260 --> 41:51.420 Probably not, although that seems to be 41:51.420 --> 41:54.233 what would be happening here. 41:55.400 --> 41:58.010 Heads up, we're not gonna back off on this. 41:58.010 --> 42:00.000 The spurs are on and we're gonna ride hard 42:00.000 --> 42:02.790 until we get this resolved. 42:02.790 --> 42:03.830 It's a readiness issue. 42:03.830 --> 42:07.363 It's also an issue for my colleague over here, Mr. Norcross. 42:09.630 --> 42:12.403 Quick comment on it, Secretary Barrett, Goldfein, 42:14.080 --> 42:15.730 either of the two of you or both. 42:17.320 --> 42:19.523 Can I count on you getting this resolved? 42:20.370 --> 42:22.800 - [Barrett] The F-35 is of urgent importance to us. 42:22.800 --> 42:24.570 - How will you get it resolved? 42:24.570 --> 42:28.410 - And I'll ask the Chief to address that. 42:28.410 --> 42:31.030 - Sir, I sat down with the CEO, all the CEOs, 42:31.030 --> 42:32.377 and told them point-blank, 42:32.377 --> 42:33.593 "I'm gonna get a question in Congress, 42:33.593 --> 42:36.847 "and the question is why should we buy you more F-35s 42:36.847 --> 42:38.507 "when you can't sustain the ones you have, 42:38.507 --> 42:40.790 "and they're too expensive to fly?" 42:40.790 --> 42:43.440 And I said, "I gotta have a better answer to that question." 42:43.440 --> 42:44.360 They got on it. 42:44.360 --> 42:47.729 I went down to Lockheed, I spent an entire day with them. 42:47.729 --> 42:50.420 ALIS to ODIN is not just a name change. 42:50.420 --> 42:53.040 We are involved in the requirements for that system. 42:53.040 --> 42:55.910 Our Kessel Run software designers and developers 42:55.910 --> 42:57.410 are deeply involved in this, 42:57.410 --> 43:00.750 and we're having a far more mature discussion about data 43:00.750 --> 43:01.860 that we need to have, 43:01.860 --> 43:04.530 but, sir, we need this committee 43:04.530 --> 43:09.000 to keep its boot on the throat of this program, 43:09.000 --> 43:12.000 along with us to make sure that we drive these costs down 43:12.000 --> 43:13.420 because right now it's not affordable. 43:13.420 --> 43:15.090 Here's the good news. 43:15.090 --> 43:18.280 I've seen more movement on this in the program 43:18.280 --> 43:20.983 in the last six months than I've seen the last two years. 43:22.320 --> 43:25.070 - Well, I think Lockheed Martin's here in the audience, 43:25.070 --> 43:28.453 and they know that they're in deep trouble, and so are you. 43:29.430 --> 43:31.050 This has to be resolved. 43:31.050 --> 43:32.660 It cannot continue on, 43:32.660 --> 43:37.210 and, yes, ALIS is only one piece of the problem. 43:37.210 --> 43:38.260 There are the depots, 43:38.260 --> 43:41.800 and this cuts across all the departments, 43:41.800 --> 43:43.920 and it's a problem for each and every department. 43:43.920 --> 43:45.533 We'll start, since you're here. 43:47.110 --> 43:50.880 Heads up, we'll get into it in detail offline, 43:50.880 --> 43:53.623 but know that this is a major, major concern. 43:55.660 --> 43:58.390 You are moving into this joint domain issue 43:58.390 --> 43:59.660 in a very big way. 43:59.660 --> 44:02.080 You've moved a lot of assets out of the, 44:02.080 --> 44:04.180 what I would call, readiness that is here and now, 44:04.180 --> 44:05.350 at least for the next decade, 44:05.350 --> 44:10.180 and moving those assets over to the 2030 period of time 44:10.180 --> 44:12.620 when most of this will come online. 44:12.620 --> 44:14.550 There are significant concerns. 44:14.550 --> 44:17.330 KC-10s, KC-35s, 44:17.330 --> 44:19.380 disappearing, really? 44:19.380 --> 44:21.580 Trans Com says, "Well, maybe not a good idea." 44:21.580 --> 44:23.950 Could you please comment on this issue? 44:23.950 --> 44:27.440 And I understand you're rethinking this part of the budget. 44:27.440 --> 44:30.070 - Sir, this is the common tension that you will always see 44:30.070 --> 44:31.460 between a combatant commander 44:31.460 --> 44:32.970 that has a near-term requirement 44:32.970 --> 44:36.680 and a service chief that's building a force to win in 2030, 44:36.680 --> 44:39.050 and so we could have the same discussion about tankers, 44:39.050 --> 44:41.250 fighters, bombers, command and control, ISR. 44:42.420 --> 44:44.740 So in the tanker business, two options, 44:44.740 --> 44:45.950 two things I wanna tell you. 44:45.950 --> 44:49.180 First of all, if we go to war into a high-end fight, 44:49.180 --> 44:50.543 in terms of mitigation, 44:51.440 --> 44:52.910 we have already told the combatant command 44:52.910 --> 44:55.590 and the Secretary of Defense that we would put every KC-46 44:55.590 --> 44:56.780 into a high-end fight. 44:56.780 --> 45:00.010 We would not use it for day-to-day operations, 45:00.010 --> 45:03.020 but we would use it for high-end combat operations. 45:03.020 --> 45:07.340 What we're asking for is a 3% 45:07.340 --> 45:11.750 retirement representing 3% of the KC-135 fleet, 45:11.750 --> 45:13.050 and so we're working through that 45:13.050 --> 45:14.900 with the Secretary of Defense now, 45:14.900 --> 45:16.433 but it's a reasonable trade. 45:18.305 --> 45:21.960 - And you have a 25% failure rate on the-- 45:21.960 --> 45:25.000 - Actually, if I could ask this question, 45:25.000 --> 45:27.300 the comment under his breath there that I think you missed 45:27.300 --> 45:31.480 was the notion that the KC-46 fundamentally doesn't work. 45:31.480 --> 45:33.230 I think that's actually an important question 45:33.230 --> 45:35.380 to address before we move on. 45:35.380 --> 45:38.340 Does it have problems, or does it fundamentally not work? 45:38.340 --> 45:39.870 - Sir, we're having significant issues 45:39.870 --> 45:41.390 with the remote-visual system. 45:41.390 --> 45:44.610 It's a hardware problem that requires a hardware fix. 45:44.610 --> 45:47.510 I sent a letter to the CEO, Mr. Calhoun. 45:47.510 --> 45:49.340 He came to see me three days later. 45:49.340 --> 45:51.260 We sat down, he committed to me that this is his 45:51.260 --> 45:55.750 number one priority for getting this back on track. 45:55.750 --> 45:57.670 I've seen a different behavior from that company 45:57.670 --> 45:59.390 since he's taken over. 45:59.390 --> 46:02.570 We're on final, so I wanna be careful about negotiations, 46:02.570 --> 46:04.520 but we think we have a good fix. 46:04.520 --> 46:07.690 - Of the many issues in your portfolio, 46:07.690 --> 46:11.130 getting a clear picture as to how we get the KC-46 46:11.130 --> 46:13.740 to actually function like it's supposed to 46:13.740 --> 46:15.123 is a pretty big one, 46:16.025 --> 46:18.440 and I know Mr. Norcross will definitely following up 46:18.440 --> 46:19.800 with you on that as well. 46:19.800 --> 46:21.430 Mr. Lamborn. 46:21.430 --> 46:22.270 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 46:22.270 --> 46:25.090 I wanna thank all three of you for your contribution 46:25.090 --> 46:26.610 to our national defense, 46:26.610 --> 46:28.710 and, General Goldfein, you will be missed. 46:29.680 --> 46:31.510 My first question is for Secretary Barrett 46:31.510 --> 46:32.480 and General Raymond. 46:32.480 --> 46:34.780 It has been a pleasure working with both of you 46:34.780 --> 46:36.850 throughout the stand-up of Space Command 46:36.850 --> 46:38.770 and the creation of Space Force. 46:38.770 --> 46:42.280 As you know already, I believe that Colorado Springs 46:42.280 --> 46:45.310 is the best option for that permanent location. 46:45.310 --> 46:48.310 We've had this conversation a time or two, 46:48.310 --> 46:49.820 actually more than that. 46:49.820 --> 46:52.460 Based on many factors ranging from location, 46:52.460 --> 46:54.270 civilian and military workforce, 46:54.270 --> 46:56.510 existing infrastructure and capabilities, 46:56.510 --> 46:59.220 and quality of life for service members and their families, 46:59.220 --> 47:01.600 but I'm not gonna go into that today. (laughs) 47:01.600 --> 47:05.373 When it comes, though, to the guard and reserve personnel, 47:07.000 --> 47:12.000 one of the four space wings, which are in Colorado, 47:12.200 --> 47:13.550 is a 47:13.550 --> 47:16.870 Air Reserve component of the Air Force, 47:16.870 --> 47:20.450 and there are also 630 National Guardsmen 47:20.450 --> 47:23.230 conducting space missions in our state. 47:23.230 --> 47:25.940 The synergy that we see between active duty 47:25.940 --> 47:28.540 and reserve component in space operations 47:28.540 --> 47:30.740 multiplies the capacity of the force, 47:30.740 --> 47:32.890 saves money and retains talent. 47:32.890 --> 47:36.750 Now, I'm aware that there's a proposal to continue to study 47:36.750 --> 47:38.620 the role of the reserve component 47:38.620 --> 47:41.500 as it relates to the Space Force, 47:41.500 --> 47:45.220 but I believe this delay would create a gap in continuity 47:45.220 --> 47:48.280 for the space operators currently in the National Guard 47:48.280 --> 47:50.320 and jeopardizes the readiness 47:50.320 --> 47:53.960 of these unit trained and equipped formations. 47:53.960 --> 47:56.020 So my question on this, 47:56.020 --> 47:58.440 is there anything holding back the establishment 47:58.440 --> 48:01.403 of a Space National Guard in this coming year? 48:06.448 --> 48:08.610 - We cannot go to war, we cannot do our jobs, 48:08.610 --> 48:09.640 without the Guard and reserve. 48:09.640 --> 48:12.620 They're very much valued partners in the process. 48:12.620 --> 48:13.700 The Space Guard and Reserve, 48:13.700 --> 48:15.470 we're going to spend a little time looking at 48:15.470 --> 48:17.340 to incorporate that 48:18.470 --> 48:22.500 workforce in a way that we might be building a new design, 48:22.500 --> 48:24.380 a new paradigm, for how that's done. 48:24.380 --> 48:26.070 The chief has given a great deal of thought to it, 48:26.070 --> 48:27.970 and I'd invite his comments. 48:27.970 --> 48:29.040 - Yeah, Congressman Rogers, 48:29.040 --> 48:30.066 I agree with everything you said. 48:30.066 --> 48:32.300 We are reliant on the Guard and Reserve today. 48:32.300 --> 48:33.890 The 310th Space Wing at Schriever's, 48:33.890 --> 48:35.200 the wing you were talking about. 48:35.200 --> 48:37.580 There's about 1400 guardsmen 48:37.580 --> 48:38.511 between the Army and the Air Force 48:38.511 --> 48:41.943 that provide space capabilities as well. 48:42.810 --> 48:43.643 We rely on 'em today, 48:43.643 --> 48:45.000 and we're gonna need that in the future. 48:45.000 --> 48:48.530 We've been directed by law to do a review of this, 48:48.530 --> 48:49.980 and so we're gonna follow the law, 48:49.980 --> 48:51.730 the National Defense Authorization Act of '20 48:51.730 --> 48:52.740 tells us to do this review. 48:52.740 --> 48:53.900 We're gonna do this review. 48:53.900 --> 48:56.560 We have an opportunity to look at how would we do this, 48:56.560 --> 48:58.930 and are there more efficient ways to do it 48:58.930 --> 49:01.880 for a service that's gonna be about 16 thousand people 49:01.880 --> 49:03.170 that's custom-built for this domain, 49:03.170 --> 49:04.490 so we're gonna do that, 49:04.490 --> 49:06.970 we'll meet the requirements of the law, 49:06.970 --> 49:10.080 but I will assure you that there is gonna be no lapse 49:10.080 --> 49:12.910 in capability that is provided today. 49:12.910 --> 49:14.980 The Guard and Reserve can fully support 49:14.980 --> 49:16.620 what we're doing today as they are today. 49:16.620 --> 49:18.707 We're gonna move out diligently with speed 49:18.707 --> 49:21.650 to answer Congress with the directions 49:21.650 --> 49:22.790 we were given in the law. 49:22.790 --> 49:24.760 - Okay, thank you both for that answer, 49:24.760 --> 49:28.723 and, General Raymond, as best as you can in an open setting, 49:29.620 --> 49:32.320 can you share with us some of the characteristics 49:32.320 --> 49:34.460 a permanent national security space 49:34.460 --> 49:37.250 command and control center needs to have 49:37.250 --> 49:41.310 to successfully fight and win wars that extend into space? 49:41.310 --> 49:44.820 - We have two really successful C2 centers today. 49:44.820 --> 49:47.417 One is in Schriever Air Force Base, 49:47.417 --> 49:48.700 the National Space Defense Center. 49:48.700 --> 49:50.420 One's at Colorado Springs. 49:50.420 --> 49:52.240 You have to have the ability to ingest data. 49:52.240 --> 49:53.770 You have to have the right expertise. 49:53.770 --> 49:55.450 You have to have relationships and connections 49:55.450 --> 49:56.723 with our allied partners. 49:57.690 --> 50:02.030 You have to be able to communicate broadly 50:02.030 --> 50:04.100 with all those that you have to communicate with, 50:04.100 --> 50:05.750 including those that are forward and theater. 50:05.750 --> 50:08.020 Those are some top-level items 50:08.020 --> 50:09.470 that I'd put at the top of the list. 50:09.470 --> 50:10.520 - Okay, thank you, 50:10.520 --> 50:12.670 and then my last question, General Raymond, 50:13.710 --> 50:17.990 I know you had a space war-fighting doctrine conference 50:17.990 --> 50:19.800 at Peterson Air Force Base in January 50:19.800 --> 50:22.740 to coordinate and move forward with writing the document 50:22.740 --> 50:24.770 that will dictate how our joint force 50:25.710 --> 50:29.210 will fight wars that extend into space, 50:29.210 --> 50:31.600 and I believe it's accurate to say that your work, 50:31.600 --> 50:33.860 that product, will be used to determine 50:33.860 --> 50:37.960 the finalized force organization and equipment requirements 50:37.960 --> 50:42.010 for our space war-fighters, so where are we at? 50:42.010 --> 50:44.220 What is the status report on writing 50:44.220 --> 50:47.610 the Department of Defense's space war-fighting doctrine, 50:47.610 --> 50:49.440 and when do you think this'll be finished, 50:49.440 --> 50:51.370 and how is it coming along? 50:51.370 --> 50:52.300 - Thank you for the question. 50:52.300 --> 50:53.690 We've had space doctrine before. 50:53.690 --> 50:56.640 It's a doctrine that was built largely for benign domain. 50:56.640 --> 50:58.050 That's not good enough today, 50:58.050 --> 51:02.343 and on 20 December when the US Space Force was set up, 51:03.350 --> 51:05.360 one of the fundamental things, in my opinion, 51:05.360 --> 51:08.060 that a independent service has to do, 51:08.060 --> 51:10.330 it's gotta develop its own people, 51:10.330 --> 51:12.230 and it has to develop its own doctrine, 51:12.230 --> 51:13.440 and so we pulled the team together, 51:13.440 --> 51:16.960 we put a first draft of what we call a capstone document. 51:16.960 --> 51:18.750 That will continue to get further reviewed here 51:18.750 --> 51:20.040 over the next couple months, 51:20.040 --> 51:21.580 and then we look forward to publishing that, 51:21.580 --> 51:23.690 and then it'll be several series levels of doctrine, 51:23.690 --> 51:27.040 including joint doctrine in my US Space Command hat 51:27.040 --> 51:28.960 that will also follow. 51:28.960 --> 51:31.530 - Okay, thank you so much, I appreciate your service. 51:31.530 --> 51:33.340 Mr. Chairman, I yield back. 51:33.340 --> 51:35.230 - [Smith] Thank you, Representative Lamborn. 51:35.230 --> 51:37.160 Chair now recognizes Representative Norcross 51:37.160 --> 51:39.000 for five minutes. 51:39.000 --> 51:41.010 - Thank you, first of all, General Goldfein, 51:41.010 --> 51:44.130 thank you so much for your service over the years. 51:44.130 --> 51:46.660 We particularly appreciate your frankness 51:46.660 --> 51:49.270 when you address so many of our tough questions, 51:49.270 --> 51:51.720 but I wanna follow up on 51:52.810 --> 51:55.090 the question of the KC-46s. 51:55.090 --> 51:56.020 - [Smith] Representative Norcross, can you pull 51:56.020 --> 51:57.860 the microphone really close to your mouth there? 51:57.860 --> 51:59.270 Thanks a lot. 51:59.270 --> 52:00.327 - The KC-46s. 52:02.650 --> 52:04.692 We're retiring some of the 135s 52:04.692 --> 52:09.530 at a little bit more of accelerated pace than we expected, 52:09.530 --> 52:11.990 and along with the KC-10s, 52:11.990 --> 52:14.220 but as said, and you mentioned it earlier, 52:14.220 --> 52:18.350 in a high-end fight, we could use the 46s. 52:18.350 --> 52:22.290 Describe to us what a high-end fight looks like. 52:22.290 --> 52:25.290 - Sir, if we would go to a high-end contingency fight, 52:25.290 --> 52:28.800 either a peer fight or one where the Secretary of Defense 52:28.800 --> 52:31.170 asks me whether in high-end combat operations 52:31.170 --> 52:33.980 whether I would be comfortable using the KC-46, 52:33.980 --> 52:35.210 I would take that risk. 52:35.210 --> 52:36.860 We've already done the operational analysis, 52:36.860 --> 52:37.830 and we would do that. 52:37.830 --> 52:41.350 We will not take that risk during day-to-day operations, 52:41.350 --> 52:43.240 and it has to do, quite frankly, 52:43.240 --> 52:46.260 with the remote visual system that, very quickly, 52:46.260 --> 52:48.350 the last 10 feet, 52:48.350 --> 52:52.023 when the boom operator is trying to plug the receiver, 52:52.920 --> 52:55.360 the system was not designed well 52:55.360 --> 52:56.870 in terms of that final focus, 52:56.870 --> 53:01.850 so we're having more out of contacts around the airplane. 53:01.850 --> 53:04.000 I would take that risk in combat. 53:04.000 --> 53:07.160 I would not take that risk in day-to-day operations. 53:07.160 --> 53:08.090 - That describes it. 53:08.090 --> 53:11.660 The stiffness of the boom is only with the A-10, 53:11.660 --> 53:15.020 which may or may not be part of that. 53:15.020 --> 53:18.100 Just wanna switch over to the modernization, 53:18.100 --> 53:19.697 talking about the ISR. 53:20.960 --> 53:22.670 There's not a combatant commander 53:22.670 --> 53:24.350 that we have a discussion with. 53:24.350 --> 53:26.630 There's virtually nobody we deal with 53:26.630 --> 53:28.810 day-to-day doesn't need more, 53:28.810 --> 53:33.090 yet it appears that we're going to cut this high and dry 53:33.090 --> 53:35.500 and particularly the notable is 53:35.500 --> 53:38.730 the Global Hawk Block 20 and 30. 53:38.730 --> 53:41.360 Would you walk us through that decision-making? 53:41.360 --> 53:44.040 Because it appears we're gonna have a real lull here. 53:44.040 --> 53:46.310 - Yes, sir, there's no better example I can give you 53:46.310 --> 53:48.380 of how when we connect sensors and shooters 53:48.380 --> 53:51.170 and weapons together in a networked approach, 53:51.170 --> 53:53.500 we actually bring up capability and capacity 53:53.500 --> 53:55.503 because we're making use of those 53:55.503 --> 53:57.630 that are not connected today. 53:57.630 --> 53:59.740 So what I can't describe for you in an open hearing, 53:59.740 --> 54:01.130 and I'd love to do in a closed session, 54:01.130 --> 54:04.140 is where we're going on the classified side, 54:04.140 --> 54:07.330 in terms of bringing survivable capability together 54:07.330 --> 54:10.680 that offsets some of what we're trying to take down 54:10.680 --> 54:12.740 in those that are not survivable, 54:12.740 --> 54:14.230 but when you tie them together 54:14.230 --> 54:16.160 and you get the sensors actually comparing 54:16.160 --> 54:17.770 and fusing information, 54:17.770 --> 54:19.970 you actually increased your capacity of ISR. 54:21.040 --> 54:24.470 - We understand, we were just out at Palmdale 54:24.470 --> 54:26.203 to see some of what we're doing, 54:27.960 --> 54:29.750 but for that four-year period, 54:29.750 --> 54:31.590 or as what they're calling a bathtub effect, 54:31.590 --> 54:35.023 is we're going down to zero in producing those new ones. 54:36.460 --> 54:39.550 What you just described to us is going to take place 54:39.550 --> 54:40.770 of those new 54:42.330 --> 54:45.560 planes that we would have instead of those? 54:45.560 --> 54:47.710 - Not one-for-one but there is absolutely 54:47.710 --> 54:50.090 a replacement there, 54:50.090 --> 54:54.160 but there's also a factor that we have to think about, 54:54.160 --> 54:58.760 which is everything we produce in all the services 54:58.760 --> 55:01.930 is a standalone operating computer and sensor, 55:01.930 --> 55:03.560 and when we can tie those computers, 55:03.560 --> 55:06.640 think about anything that rolls, submerges, 55:06.640 --> 55:10.730 floats, flies, or orbits is a sensor. 55:10.730 --> 55:13.470 When we can actually fuse and make use of that information 55:13.470 --> 55:15.490 and not do it independently, 55:15.490 --> 55:17.310 you actually get a much better picture 55:17.310 --> 55:20.670 with greater fidelity earlier in the fight 55:20.670 --> 55:23.630 than if you just operate on a standalone basis, 55:23.630 --> 55:26.350 and that's why, as we move from platforms to networks, 55:26.350 --> 55:28.350 we actually increase our capability. 55:28.350 --> 55:31.470 - So we would expect to hear from more combatant commanders 55:31.470 --> 55:34.570 that their view is gonna change in asking for this, 55:34.570 --> 55:38.670 so that will be a cultural change we'll have to deal with. 55:38.670 --> 55:41.453 For my remaining time, I yield to Mr. Crow. 55:42.360 --> 55:43.770 - Thank you, Mr. Norcross. 55:43.770 --> 55:45.930 Thank you to all of you for your testimony today. 55:45.930 --> 55:47.560 Secretary Barrett and General Raymond, 55:47.560 --> 55:49.810 I've appreciated your discussions on Space Force. 55:49.810 --> 55:52.940 As you know, I represent Buckley Air Force Base in Aurora, 55:52.940 --> 55:56.090 which is about to become Buckley Space Base next month. 55:56.090 --> 55:59.600 Could you provide a quick update for us on the timing 55:59.600 --> 56:02.100 of the basing discussion for US Space Command 56:02.100 --> 56:03.820 and the criteria being used, 56:03.820 --> 56:07.640 and I affiliate with Mr. Lamborn's comments 56:07.640 --> 56:09.240 on the importance of Colorado. 56:09.240 --> 56:11.870 Of course, I think Buckley is just slightly better 56:11.870 --> 56:14.143 than Colorado Springs on the basing. 56:15.780 --> 56:18.000 - Well, we're all very excited about the future there. 56:18.000 --> 56:20.360 With the stand-up of the Space Force, 56:20.360 --> 56:22.470 much of what had been operating in Colorado 56:22.470 --> 56:24.250 is moving to Washington, 56:24.250 --> 56:26.470 or there will be some that will move to Washington. 56:26.470 --> 56:29.070 As we redesign that system, 56:29.070 --> 56:31.270 we are going to reopen the process 56:31.270 --> 56:34.160 and put forward criteria in detail 56:34.160 --> 56:38.300 and invite all who think they have a good shot at it to come 56:38.300 --> 56:41.303 and represent their communities for that possible basing-- 56:41.303 --> 56:45.030 - And when will that reopening occur? 56:45.030 --> 56:47.653 - This spring, it'll be announced. 56:47.653 --> 56:50.040 So the Chief may have further to add. 56:50.040 --> 56:50.873 - [Smith] Thank you, actually, 56:50.873 --> 56:55.140 we're out of time at the moment, so Mr. Wilson. 56:55.140 --> 56:56.050 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman, 56:56.050 --> 56:57.790 and thank each of you for being here today, 56:57.790 --> 57:00.930 and I especially appreciate your service. 57:00.930 --> 57:05.930 I am the son of he's a late veteran of the 14th Air Force. 57:06.910 --> 57:09.740 He cherished his service with the people of India and China, 57:09.740 --> 57:11.750 and that was always meaningful to me, 57:11.750 --> 57:13.280 and then growing up in the holy city 57:13.280 --> 57:15.040 of Charleston, South Carolina, 57:15.040 --> 57:16.757 we appreciate the Charleston Air Force Base 57:16.757 --> 57:20.330 and the capabilities, the C-17s, everything there. 57:20.330 --> 57:24.770 Additionally, I'm the grateful uncle of a member 57:24.770 --> 57:27.620 of the Air Force, a (mumbles) graduate, 57:27.620 --> 57:29.670 so obviously a very bright fellow, 57:29.670 --> 57:31.770 so thank you for being here, 57:31.770 --> 57:33.120 and, Secretary Barrett, 57:33.120 --> 57:36.200 F-35 aircraft provide peace through strength. 57:36.200 --> 57:40.070 There are 11 companies in South Carolina who provide 57:40.070 --> 57:43.430 the equipment for the F-35. 57:43.430 --> 57:45.880 We're grateful that the Marine Corps Air Station in Beaufort 57:45.880 --> 57:48.790 is home to F-35 pilot training 57:48.790 --> 57:53.630 and will eventually have up to 90 F-35B aircraft, 57:53.630 --> 57:56.633 and the people of Beaufort County love the sound of freedom. 57:57.540 --> 58:00.690 We would gladly welcome also F-35s 58:00.690 --> 58:04.780 at McEntire Joint Air Base and Shaw Air Force Base. 58:04.780 --> 58:08.390 The Air Force 2021 unfunded priority 58:08.390 --> 58:11.680 list requests an additional 12 F-35s, 58:11.680 --> 58:15.020 and, Madam Secretary, fifth generation strike 58:16.160 --> 58:20.580 aircraft capability is a top priority of the Air Force. 58:20.580 --> 58:25.033 What can be done to promote 60 F-35As in your budget? 58:28.150 --> 58:29.690 - Mr. Wilson, we'd be delighted to have 58:29.690 --> 58:32.020 those additional aircraft, of course, 58:32.020 --> 58:36.230 but we have to live within the budget proposal put forward, 58:36.230 --> 58:38.997 and we, of course, will comply beyond that, 58:38.997 --> 58:41.930 and I would invite the Chief to add to that. 58:41.930 --> 58:43.920 - Sir, we ended the last discussion F-35 58:43.920 --> 58:46.490 on a bit of a negative tone talking about sustainment. 58:46.490 --> 58:49.960 I think it's important for me to also tell you on the record 58:49.960 --> 58:52.260 what I think of it operationally. 58:52.260 --> 58:54.680 It is performing brilliantly. 58:54.680 --> 58:57.390 My fellow air chief, the Israeli air chief, 58:57.390 --> 58:59.327 called me and said, "Hey, Dave," he goes, 58:59.327 --> 59:02.367 "You know, I'm not integrating the F-35 59:02.367 --> 59:03.877 "into the Israeli Air Force. 59:03.877 --> 59:07.640 "I'm integrating the Israeli Air Force into the F-35." 59:07.640 --> 59:09.020 I can't give you a better statement 59:09.020 --> 59:10.960 of what the fifth gen is all about. 59:10.960 --> 59:12.290 This one's a game-changer. 59:12.290 --> 59:15.030 It's brilliant in its performance operationally. 59:15.030 --> 59:17.650 We just gotta work on the sustainment piece. 59:17.650 --> 59:19.710 - And, General, thank you so much for pointing that out, 59:19.710 --> 59:20.960 and, indeed, 59:20.960 --> 59:22.280 to work 59:22.280 --> 59:25.700 with our ally Israel and provide peace through strength. 59:25.700 --> 59:26.940 You're doing that, so thank you, 59:26.940 --> 59:29.700 and, General Goldfein, South Carolina is pleased 59:29.700 --> 59:33.040 to have the 20th Fighter Wing at Shaw Air Force Base 59:33.040 --> 59:37.400 and the 169th Fighter Wing at McEntire Joint Air Base. 59:37.400 --> 59:40.030 We know that the Air Force has had success 59:40.030 --> 59:42.690 in growing its size of the maintenance community, 59:42.690 --> 59:46.430 although not at the desired 80% mark. 59:46.430 --> 59:50.490 I'm thankful the F-16 mission capable rates are improving. 59:50.490 --> 59:52.130 What is the plan and timeline 59:52.130 --> 59:54.770 to improve the mission readiness for F-16s 59:54.770 --> 59:57.800 to meet or surpass the 80% goal? 59:57.800 --> 59:59.510 - Well, with the support of this committee, sir, 59:59.510 --> 01:00:01.720 and the money that we've had since '18, 01:00:01.720 --> 01:00:03.570 we were in a downward spiral. 01:00:03.570 --> 01:00:05.010 We've been able to get upwards 01:00:05.010 --> 01:00:07.550 of 13% overall readiness rates 01:00:07.550 --> 01:00:10.790 and 34% improvement in our pacing units. 01:00:10.790 --> 01:00:12.980 The pacing units are those units we've identified 01:00:12.980 --> 01:00:16.350 that will go first into a China or Russia fight, 01:00:16.350 --> 01:00:17.740 and so we've been able to improve now 01:00:17.740 --> 01:00:19.310 just in that short period of time. 01:00:19.310 --> 01:00:21.870 The F-16 is on that track but I will tell you 01:00:21.870 --> 01:00:24.090 that we've got some significant modifications 01:00:24.090 --> 01:00:25.970 that we're doing that are gonna require us 01:00:25.970 --> 01:00:28.060 to put the F-16s through depot, 01:00:28.060 --> 01:00:31.070 and that's gonna lower our overall mission capable rate, 01:00:31.070 --> 01:00:33.810 but we mitigate that as we get it back outta depot 01:00:33.810 --> 01:00:36.150 at a higher level of capability. 01:00:36.150 --> 01:00:37.120 - Thank you very much, General, 01:00:37.120 --> 01:00:40.200 and, General Raymond, again, you're a person of history. 01:00:40.200 --> 01:00:42.700 Now, to be the first person to be 01:00:42.700 --> 01:00:45.780 the leader of Space Operations, congratulations. 01:00:45.780 --> 01:00:48.470 One of the major focuses of Space Force 01:00:48.470 --> 01:00:51.880 is ensuring that space systems can be developed and acquired 01:00:51.880 --> 01:00:54.100 at the speed of innovation. 01:00:54.100 --> 01:00:55.260 What a challenge. 01:00:55.260 --> 01:01:00.260 What are you perspectives on how to fix the system space 01:01:00.350 --> 01:01:02.493 unique acquisition challenges? 01:01:03.900 --> 01:01:04.733 - Thanks for that question. 01:01:04.733 --> 01:01:06.720 I think it's one of the fundamental tenets 01:01:06.720 --> 01:01:08.580 of the National Defense Authorization Act, 01:01:08.580 --> 01:01:09.900 the reason for the Space Force. 01:01:09.900 --> 01:01:11.510 I think we have to go at speed. 01:01:11.510 --> 01:01:14.340 Our adversaries are going fast and we need to go faster. 01:01:14.340 --> 01:01:15.750 I think it begins with requirements. 01:01:15.750 --> 01:01:17.460 You have to streamline requirements. 01:01:17.460 --> 01:01:20.000 I think it begins with having 01:01:20.840 --> 01:01:22.930 an architecture that everybody agrees to, 01:01:22.930 --> 01:01:25.200 and that's why when the law said that Space Force 01:01:25.200 --> 01:01:28.260 would be responsible for the architectures 01:01:28.260 --> 01:01:30.890 of the national security space architectures, 01:01:30.890 --> 01:01:31.820 I think that's really important, 01:01:31.820 --> 01:01:33.450 to get everybody rolling in the same direction. 01:01:33.450 --> 01:01:36.540 I think software, to go back to Mr. Larsen's question, 01:01:36.540 --> 01:01:39.720 we are already designing how we wanna do software 01:01:39.720 --> 01:01:41.530 in this force to be able to go fast, 01:01:41.530 --> 01:01:44.810 to be more software-based rather than hardware-based. 01:01:44.810 --> 01:01:47.840 - And America's grateful for each of your service. 01:01:47.840 --> 01:01:49.070 Thank you so much for what you do, 01:01:49.070 --> 01:01:51.050 protecting American families. 01:01:51.050 --> 01:01:51.883 I yield back. 01:01:51.883 --> 01:01:53.173 - [Smith] Thank you. Mr. Gallego. 01:01:54.750 --> 01:01:55.770 - [Gallego] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 01:01:55.770 --> 01:01:58.620 Secretary Barrett, what are you thoughts about the right mix 01:01:58.620 --> 01:02:01.170 of fifth generation and fourth generation aircraft? 01:02:02.810 --> 01:02:05.760 - Well, we're gonna do well to have 01:02:05.760 --> 01:02:09.250 the observability that the fifth generation allows, 01:02:09.250 --> 01:02:12.420 but there's a good role also for the fourth generation, 01:02:12.420 --> 01:02:16.790 and we're going to continue to see that as a balance 01:02:16.790 --> 01:02:18.400 and as a correct mix. 01:02:18.400 --> 01:02:21.680 I'd invite the Chief of Air Force to add to that. 01:02:21.680 --> 01:02:23.220 - So, right now, we're about 20/40. 01:02:23.220 --> 01:02:26.730 We think by about 2030 we'll be right in the 50/50. 01:02:26.730 --> 01:02:29.800 By 2040 timeframe, we're projected to be at about 60/40. 01:02:29.800 --> 01:02:32.180 That's about the right target, I think, going forward. 01:02:32.180 --> 01:02:33.980 - [Gallego] So you'd say a good mix, then. 01:02:33.980 --> 01:02:35.620 - A good mix, and I will tell ya, 01:02:35.620 --> 01:02:37.300 at some point in the future, we're gonna be talking about 01:02:37.300 --> 01:02:39.690 the same thing in a fifth/sixth gen mix. 01:02:39.690 --> 01:02:40.550 - And so I agree with that, 01:02:40.550 --> 01:02:43.430 so kinda concerning what you guys just said. 01:02:43.430 --> 01:02:45.230 If we need proven capable aircraft, 01:02:45.230 --> 01:02:47.010 why is the Air Force announcing the intent 01:02:47.010 --> 01:02:50.713 to retire 44 A-10 Warthogs without giving us more details? 01:02:52.890 --> 01:02:54.770 - The A-10 story, I'll tell you that, 01:02:54.770 --> 01:02:56.870 as I said yesterday and was asked, 01:02:56.870 --> 01:02:58.620 Senator McSally and many others have done 01:02:58.620 --> 01:03:01.760 a great job really saving the A-10. 01:03:01.760 --> 01:03:04.710 So the A-10 is gonna fly well through the 2030s. 01:03:04.710 --> 01:03:07.280 We're putting almost a billion dollars into the A-10, 01:03:07.280 --> 01:03:09.280 updating its wings, updating its avionics, 01:03:09.280 --> 01:03:10.660 updating its radios. 01:03:10.660 --> 01:03:13.010 There is no better platform for close air support, 01:03:13.010 --> 01:03:14.420 and we're gonna keep that into the 2030s. 01:03:14.420 --> 01:03:16.430 - So then, okay, I get what you're saying, General, 01:03:16.430 --> 01:03:17.940 and so that's why I'm confused. 01:03:17.940 --> 01:03:20.160 So why is it our plan to retire, then, 01:03:20.160 --> 01:03:23.240 if we're putting this much investment into 'em, the 44? 01:03:23.240 --> 01:03:25.890 - Because we're fleet managing, sir, across the fleet. 01:03:25.890 --> 01:03:30.170 KC-135s, KC-10s, Global Hawks, A-10s, right? 01:03:30.170 --> 01:03:32.410 We're taking the oldest airframes 01:03:32.410 --> 01:03:35.690 that are unaffordable to keep flying 01:03:35.690 --> 01:03:38.100 and then putting that money and that manpower 01:03:38.100 --> 01:03:41.120 back in the existing system and buying new technology. 01:03:41.120 --> 01:03:42.380 - But also just wanted to point out 01:03:42.380 --> 01:03:44.630 that we have been very clear, as in Congress, 01:03:44.630 --> 01:03:46.310 specifically the House Armed Services Committee 01:03:46.310 --> 01:03:48.380 through the 2017 NDAA, 01:03:48.380 --> 01:03:50.160 that there is not to be any retires of the A-10 01:03:50.160 --> 01:03:54.930 until there is a study between the F-35 and the A-10, 01:03:54.930 --> 01:03:56.910 and that study is coming out when? 01:03:56.910 --> 01:03:58.450 - Sir, that study is complete. 01:03:58.450 --> 01:04:00.920 I've talked to the director of OT&E. 01:04:00.920 --> 01:04:03.250 He's prepared to offer that as an interim report, 01:04:03.250 --> 01:04:05.910 but he is right now planning on delivering that in September 01:04:05.910 --> 01:04:09.166 with the full IOT&E report on the F-35. 01:04:09.166 --> 01:04:12.201 - But the 2017 NDAA says that you do not do any movement, 01:04:12.201 --> 01:04:14.990 any decision on the A-10 until 01:04:14.990 --> 01:04:16.650 you come and deliver that report. 01:04:16.650 --> 01:04:18.650 Right now, you've made a decision 01:04:18.650 --> 01:04:19.960 without delivering us the report, 01:04:19.960 --> 01:04:23.750 so, in my opinion, you're in violation of the 2017 NDAA. 01:04:23.750 --> 01:04:25.410 What else should I take from that? 01:04:25.410 --> 01:04:27.284 - Well, sir, we had this discussion yesterday as well 01:04:27.284 --> 01:04:28.310 with the Sask. 01:04:28.310 --> 01:04:30.960 When we looked through it and looked at the language, 01:04:30.960 --> 01:04:33.810 given that we were gonna give you the report 01:04:33.810 --> 01:04:36.420 on the first month of the fiscal year 01:04:36.420 --> 01:04:38.740 and the timing that was laid out in the law, 01:04:38.740 --> 01:04:40.710 there is the actual time within 01:04:40.710 --> 01:04:43.640 between the end of the FYDP to conclude this, 01:04:43.640 --> 01:04:45.650 but I will tell you we understand the law, 01:04:45.650 --> 01:04:47.180 and we will follow it. 01:04:47.180 --> 01:04:49.660 - Okay, now, I understand that there has been a change 01:04:49.660 --> 01:04:52.740 in the plan from the first initiation, 01:04:52.740 --> 01:04:54.940 or the first release of the plan, 01:04:54.940 --> 01:04:57.053 and yesterday when you were talking on the Senate side 01:04:57.053 --> 01:04:58.470 that you guys have a new plan for the A-10, 01:04:58.470 --> 01:05:00.470 so what is the details of this new plan? 01:05:01.410 --> 01:05:02.620 - Sir, the only plan we have right now 01:05:02.620 --> 01:05:04.310 is the one that's in the president budget. 01:05:04.310 --> 01:05:05.760 I'd be happy to get with you offline 01:05:05.760 --> 01:05:08.190 on this dialogue that we're having. 01:05:08.190 --> 01:05:09.023 - Great. 01:05:09.023 --> 01:05:11.320 I do wanna say, for the record, Mr. Chairman, 01:05:11.320 --> 01:05:14.490 that this is very, very discouraging, though, 01:05:14.490 --> 01:05:19.140 and also, just to my fellow witnesses in front, 01:05:19.140 --> 01:05:20.580 that we are moving in this direction 01:05:20.580 --> 01:05:23.440 after we have been very clear as Congress, 01:05:23.440 --> 01:05:25.020 as the Armed Services Committee, 01:05:25.020 --> 01:05:27.050 certainly in a bipartisan manner, 01:05:27.050 --> 01:05:29.100 I've been in support of the A-10 Warthog. 01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:32.320 When the Obama administration tried to get rid of it, 01:05:32.320 --> 01:05:34.530 I've been here and fighting 01:05:34.530 --> 01:05:36.310 when the Trump administration got rid of it, 01:05:36.310 --> 01:05:38.540 not just because it's based in Arizona, 01:05:38.540 --> 01:05:41.770 because I do think it's a capable fighting platform, 01:05:41.770 --> 01:05:43.970 and it basically saved my ass 01:05:43.970 --> 01:05:46.483 in Operation Matador in Al Qaim, 01:05:47.640 --> 01:05:50.320 and as much as I love F-35, 01:05:50.320 --> 01:05:52.740 I don't wanna be using a billion dollar platform 01:05:52.740 --> 01:05:53.960 to support infantrymen. 01:05:53.960 --> 01:05:57.560 That's not smart and it's just not a smart use of our money, 01:05:57.560 --> 01:05:58.960 and going into the future, 01:05:58.960 --> 01:06:01.470 the Air Force may only want to fight in the air 01:06:01.470 --> 01:06:03.640 or in the space domain, 01:06:03.640 --> 01:06:06.000 but, no matter what, there will always be infantrymen, 01:06:06.000 --> 01:06:08.440 and they will always need close air combat support, 01:06:08.440 --> 01:06:10.530 and what better platforms are out there right now? 01:06:10.530 --> 01:06:13.160 The best one, the cheapest one, the strongest one, 01:06:13.160 --> 01:06:16.200 certainly if something ever happens, especially in Russia, 01:06:16.200 --> 01:06:18.000 I'm sorry, with Russia surging 01:06:18.000 --> 01:06:21.940 into the eastern European theater, is still the A-10, 01:06:21.940 --> 01:06:25.370 so I look forward to that report, 01:06:25.370 --> 01:06:27.640 but I think we need to be very, very clear 01:06:27.640 --> 01:06:31.280 that this Congress, the Senate, has said that, 01:06:31.280 --> 01:06:33.350 until we see something that's a better replacement 01:06:33.350 --> 01:06:35.540 to the A-10 that the A-10 is not going anywhere. 01:06:35.540 --> 01:06:36.810 Thank you. I yield back my time. 01:06:36.810 --> 01:06:38.160 - [Goldfein] Sir, can I? 01:06:38.160 --> 01:06:39.143 - Sorry, yes. 01:06:40.295 --> 01:06:41.880 - [Smith] Quickly. 01:06:41.880 --> 01:06:43.250 - Sir, may I just offer that, number one, 01:06:43.250 --> 01:06:45.480 we're gonna put whatever we need to support soldiers, 01:06:45.480 --> 01:06:47.300 sailors, airmen, Marines on the ground, 01:06:47.300 --> 01:06:49.660 whatever it takes regardless of the cost. 01:06:49.660 --> 01:06:51.760 You're looking at a guy who was shot down in combat, 01:06:51.760 --> 01:06:53.220 got up the next night, went and flew, 01:06:53.220 --> 01:06:54.890 and I flew close air support. 01:06:54.890 --> 01:06:56.820 Let there be no mistake on the commitment 01:06:56.820 --> 01:06:58.320 of the United States Air Force. 01:06:58.320 --> 01:06:59.780 We fly to the sound of the guns, 01:06:59.780 --> 01:07:02.180 and we support everybody on the ground or we die trying. 01:07:02.180 --> 01:07:03.633 - [Gallego] Okay, thank you. 01:07:04.500 --> 01:07:05.550 - [Smith] Mr. Rogers. 01:07:06.790 --> 01:07:07.790 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 01:07:07.790 --> 01:07:09.600 I'm very pleased to see the Air Force here 01:07:09.600 --> 01:07:10.630 in its new structure. 01:07:10.630 --> 01:07:12.980 It's great for our nation. 01:07:12.980 --> 01:07:14.577 I know this is your first NDA, Secretary Barrett, 01:07:14.577 --> 01:07:16.100 and you know I'm a big fan of yours, 01:07:16.100 --> 01:07:18.280 and General Raymond knows how I feel, 01:07:18.280 --> 01:07:20.960 but I want, for the record, to thank General Goldfein 01:07:20.960 --> 01:07:22.310 for his many years of service. 01:07:22.310 --> 01:07:24.500 He is an incredibly respected general officer 01:07:24.500 --> 01:07:26.420 and has done an admirable job, 01:07:26.420 --> 01:07:28.665 and on behalf of a thankful nation, let you know, 01:07:28.665 --> 01:07:31.070 wanted to say for the record I appreciate you. 01:07:31.070 --> 01:07:34.230 General Goldfein, the Space Force has begun 01:07:34.230 --> 01:07:38.080 a significant investment in OPIR architecture 01:07:38.080 --> 01:07:39.490 to replace SBIRS. 01:07:39.490 --> 01:07:43.260 Can you tell me what that's gonna look like 01:07:43.260 --> 01:07:46.963 and if we're gonna be able to meet the 2025 timetable? 01:07:48.739 --> 01:07:51.410 - [Raymond] I think you meant that for me. 01:07:51.410 --> 01:07:53.300 - Did I not say General Raymond? 01:07:53.300 --> 01:07:54.710 - Yeah, okay. 01:07:54.710 --> 01:07:56.493 - [Rogers] I'm sorry. I might not have. 01:07:57.770 --> 01:08:00.840 - This is a critical capability for our nation. 01:08:00.840 --> 01:08:01.990 It provides the 01:08:03.260 --> 01:08:06.270 unblinking eye for detecting against missiles 01:08:06.270 --> 01:08:07.860 that are coming into our country. 01:08:07.860 --> 01:08:11.350 Interestingly, it is also the replacement for the system 01:08:11.350 --> 01:08:14.010 that provided warning to our troops 01:08:14.010 --> 01:08:16.670 in Iraq when Iran launched missile-- 01:08:16.670 --> 01:08:18.320 - What I'm after is how is it gonna look different 01:08:18.320 --> 01:08:19.330 than SBIRS? 01:08:19.330 --> 01:08:21.030 - Yeah, so what this program does, 01:08:22.263 --> 01:08:25.260 and I can go into much more details in a closed hearing, 01:08:25.260 --> 01:08:27.620 but it is a more defendable capability 01:08:29.940 --> 01:08:32.040 than SBIRS, 01:08:32.040 --> 01:08:33.760 and when we made that trade a couple years ago 01:08:33.760 --> 01:08:36.320 to shift from SBIRS 7/8 to next generation OPIR, 01:08:36.320 --> 01:08:38.550 it was because of that defendability. 01:08:38.550 --> 01:08:40.050 It includes 01:08:40.050 --> 01:08:43.510 a geo segment, a polar segment. 01:08:43.510 --> 01:08:45.960 It includes the ground architecture as well, 01:08:45.960 --> 01:08:47.920 and with the support of this committee, 01:08:47.920 --> 01:08:51.090 the 804 authorities we had were, I think, 18 months. 01:08:51.090 --> 01:08:53.120 We got an 18-months' headstart on prototyping, 01:08:53.120 --> 01:08:56.110 and we'd just completed some hardware integration testing 01:08:56.110 --> 01:08:58.290 that was four years ahead of its predecessor SBIRS. 01:08:58.290 --> 01:08:59.183 - [Rogers] So you're confident we're gonna make-- 01:08:59.183 --> 01:09:01.070 - I am confident we're gonna make 2025, 01:09:01.070 --> 01:09:04.650 and we're fully funded with this funding to do that. 01:09:04.650 --> 01:09:08.170 - Okay, you recently signed out a fighting sat com strategy. 01:09:08.170 --> 01:09:09.550 Tell me what that is. 01:09:09.550 --> 01:09:10.680 - Yes, sir, I'll be happy to. 01:09:10.680 --> 01:09:11.780 It's really important. 01:09:13.140 --> 01:09:15.270 Our adversaries are developing capabilities 01:09:15.270 --> 01:09:18.333 or have capabilities that can jam satellite communications. 01:09:18.333 --> 01:09:21.230 We have to be able to fight in a contested domain. 01:09:21.230 --> 01:09:24.420 When you travel overseas and you turn your iPhone on, 01:09:24.420 --> 01:09:27.033 it links up to whatever network that you go to. 01:09:28.510 --> 01:09:31.220 Last year's NDA provided me the authority 01:09:31.220 --> 01:09:33.960 to procure a commercial sat com, 01:09:33.960 --> 01:09:36.220 and we think there's a great opportunity here 01:09:36.220 --> 01:09:38.600 working with the commercial industry to bring 01:09:38.600 --> 01:09:41.240 commercial sat com and military sat com closer together 01:09:41.240 --> 01:09:43.690 and provide a resilient hybrid network that says 01:09:43.690 --> 01:09:46.513 if a war-fighter is on this satellite and it gets jammed 01:09:46.513 --> 01:09:48.900 or loses contact for whatever reason, 01:09:48.900 --> 01:09:51.660 it can automatically switch over to another satellite, 01:09:51.660 --> 01:09:53.600 whether it's commercial or military, 01:09:53.600 --> 01:09:55.440 and that's the gist of that strategy. 01:09:55.440 --> 01:09:56.273 - Great. 01:09:56.273 --> 01:09:58.817 General Goldfein, the Air Force recently realigned 01:09:58.817 --> 01:10:01.970 $4.1 billion across the FYDP 01:10:01.970 --> 01:10:04.050 that, according to the Air Force budget documents, 01:10:04.050 --> 01:10:07.170 are being used to invest in four broad categories: 01:10:07.170 --> 01:10:09.270 connect the joint force, dominate space, 01:10:09.270 --> 01:10:12.650 generate combat power, and conduct logistics under attack. 01:10:12.650 --> 01:10:14.640 Would you please elaborate on the specific types 01:10:14.640 --> 01:10:16.710 of investments being made with this budget request 01:10:16.710 --> 01:10:19.650 and address the priority areas? 01:10:19.650 --> 01:10:22.190 - Yes, sir, and Chief Raymond talked to the space piece. 01:10:22.190 --> 01:10:25.680 Lemme just focus on the connecting the joint force. 01:10:25.680 --> 01:10:27.690 We're on path to do every four months, 01:10:27.690 --> 01:10:29.790 we connect portions of the joint team 01:10:29.790 --> 01:10:31.570 that is not currently connected 01:10:31.570 --> 01:10:34.870 through the digital engineering and common data architecture 01:10:34.870 --> 01:10:36.600 and then we solve problems, 01:10:36.600 --> 01:10:38.530 so we're all going, all the joint chiefs, 01:10:38.530 --> 01:10:41.060 we're all headed to Nellis Air Force Base in April, 01:10:41.060 --> 01:10:43.740 and we have three supported commanders 01:10:43.740 --> 01:10:47.500 that we're going to produce all-domain options for them 01:10:47.500 --> 01:10:48.710 by connecting capabilities. 01:10:48.710 --> 01:10:50.600 This is gonna be a live fly exercise. 01:10:50.600 --> 01:10:52.240 We're gonna have ships off the gulf. 01:10:52.240 --> 01:10:53.820 We're gonna have Marines at Yuma. 01:10:53.820 --> 01:10:56.250 We're gonna have Army at White Sands missile range. 01:10:56.250 --> 01:10:57.680 We're gonna be flying at Nellis, 01:10:57.680 --> 01:11:01.380 and we're gonna do this joint all-domain command and control 01:11:01.380 --> 01:11:03.860 demonstration to pull this all together 01:11:03.860 --> 01:11:05.730 in a homeland defense scenario. 01:11:05.730 --> 01:11:07.840 We learn every time we do it. 01:11:07.840 --> 01:11:10.740 A year ago, we were talking about this, 01:11:10.740 --> 01:11:13.190 and it was mostly aspirational lightning bolts 01:11:13.190 --> 01:11:14.370 on PowerPoint charts. 01:11:14.370 --> 01:11:16.210 There was not a lot behind it. 01:11:16.210 --> 01:11:18.620 Today, we're not talking about cloud architecture. 01:11:18.620 --> 01:11:19.580 We have one. 01:11:19.580 --> 01:11:21.400 We contracted it, it's up and operating, 01:11:21.400 --> 01:11:23.240 and all the services are connected to it. 01:11:23.240 --> 01:11:25.900 We're not talking about common data architecture. 01:11:25.900 --> 01:11:27.460 We actually have it up and running, 01:11:27.460 --> 01:11:29.900 so what you're seeing is about $2.5 billion 01:11:29.900 --> 01:11:32.130 that we put forward to connect this joint team, 01:11:32.130 --> 01:11:34.600 and I'll end with, of all the things that we're doing, 01:11:34.600 --> 01:11:38.000 this has the most promise of producing a joint team 01:11:38.000 --> 01:11:40.210 that can win in 2030. - [Rogers] Thank you. 01:11:40.210 --> 01:11:42.620 - If I could pile onto that for two seconds as well, 01:11:42.620 --> 01:11:44.370 this is absolutely critical for space. 01:11:44.370 --> 01:11:46.740 We have to operate at great distances at speed, 01:11:46.740 --> 01:11:48.770 and the work that we've been doing in 01:11:48.770 --> 01:11:51.560 what we used to call enterprise space battle management C2 01:11:51.560 --> 01:11:54.620 is last into that joint all-domain C2 01:11:54.620 --> 01:11:56.660 and is providing a lotta the data architecture 01:11:56.660 --> 01:11:57.540 that it's using. 01:11:57.540 --> 01:11:58.591 - Great. 01:11:58.591 --> 01:11:59.870 I would just close by pointing out, 01:11:59.870 --> 01:12:02.520 we're gonna have to have a new seal on the wall 01:12:02.520 --> 01:12:03.353 when y'all have got one-- 01:12:03.353 --> 01:12:05.720 - Yes, sir, I'll deliver it, and we'll hang it together. 01:12:05.720 --> 01:12:06.920 - [Rogers] Thank you. I yield back, Mr. Chairman. 01:12:06.920 --> 01:12:08.317 - [Smith] Everybody seems very concerned about that, 01:12:08.317 --> 01:12:10.320 and there's a balance issue 01:12:10.320 --> 01:12:12.720 because we have three on one side, three on the other, 01:12:12.720 --> 01:12:14.930 so we're gonna have to figure out the logistics of that, 01:12:14.930 --> 01:12:16.530 but Mr. Courtney. 01:12:16.530 --> 01:12:17.730 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman, 01:12:17.730 --> 01:12:19.650 and thank you to the witnesses. 01:12:19.650 --> 01:12:21.880 Again, it's a good opportunity to talk the other day 01:12:21.880 --> 01:12:23.890 and appreciate you coming by. 01:12:23.890 --> 01:12:26.010 I know the issue of the remote visual system 01:12:26.010 --> 01:12:27.340 has been brought up by other members. 01:12:27.340 --> 01:12:28.610 I'm not gonna belabor the point. 01:12:28.610 --> 01:12:31.160 I just wanna again emphasize that, 01:12:31.160 --> 01:12:33.060 as we get closer to Markup 01:12:33.060 --> 01:12:36.420 and the Seapower and Projection Forces Subcommittee, 01:12:36.420 --> 01:12:38.790 we have to make a decision about building more planes 01:12:38.790 --> 01:12:40.240 that we know are gonna have to be 01:12:40.240 --> 01:12:42.330 fairly significantly retrofitted, 01:12:42.330 --> 01:12:45.640 so to the extent that this comes to a conclusion, 01:12:45.640 --> 01:12:48.420 in terms of what that retrofit looks like, 01:12:48.420 --> 01:12:49.840 frankly, it would, I think, 01:12:49.840 --> 01:12:52.960 just make for common sense budgeting so that we know 01:12:54.550 --> 01:12:55.650 what we're paying for, 01:12:55.650 --> 01:12:57.930 and, again, we had a good discussion on that, 01:12:57.930 --> 01:13:01.900 and I hope, again, just to see that dovetail 01:13:01.900 --> 01:13:06.070 as we get closer to the timeline for decisions here. 01:13:06.070 --> 01:13:07.620 The other question I just wanted to touch on 01:13:07.620 --> 01:13:10.990 is the Air National Guard C-130s. 01:13:10.990 --> 01:13:13.120 The Connecticut Air Guard just actually just returned 01:13:13.120 --> 01:13:14.330 from Afghanistan. 01:13:14.330 --> 01:13:16.470 They did eye-watering work, 01:13:16.470 --> 01:13:19.530 in terms of just the tonnage and personnel 01:13:19.530 --> 01:13:21.930 that they transported in that part of the world. 01:13:21.930 --> 01:13:23.473 They're doing a good job, 01:13:24.570 --> 01:13:28.020 but another issue that we've had to kind of wrestle with 01:13:28.020 --> 01:13:29.930 on the subcommittee over the last three or four years 01:13:29.930 --> 01:13:32.290 is modernization of the C-130s, 01:13:32.290 --> 01:13:34.740 the propellor issue in particular. 01:13:34.740 --> 01:13:36.320 The Air Force had to ground 01:13:36.320 --> 01:13:38.700 obviously some C-130s back in 2019. 01:13:38.700 --> 01:13:42.433 The Navy had a catastrophe because of defective propellors. 01:13:43.631 --> 01:13:47.430 A lot of us think that the MP-2000 is a solution 01:13:47.430 --> 01:13:52.400 that just will eliminate really the safety issue 01:13:52.400 --> 01:13:54.240 that we know 01:13:54.240 --> 01:13:58.180 certainly had that impact with the Navy situation. 01:13:58.180 --> 01:14:00.730 Maybe just talk about that a little bit in terms of 01:14:03.130 --> 01:14:04.640 another decision that the subcommittee's 01:14:04.640 --> 01:14:06.670 gonna have to wrestle with very soon. 01:14:06.670 --> 01:14:10.130 - No, thanks, sir, and I echo your comments on the Guard. 01:14:10.130 --> 01:14:12.513 We couldn't fight without the Guard. 01:14:13.860 --> 01:14:16.380 So on the particular on the propellor, 01:14:16.380 --> 01:14:20.700 so we have replaced all the pre-1971 C-130H propellors 01:14:20.700 --> 01:14:21.880 with the MP-2000, 01:14:21.880 --> 01:14:24.680 which I've been down to the depot, it's a great propellor. 01:14:24.680 --> 01:14:27.740 We've modified our depot and our maintenance procedures 01:14:27.740 --> 01:14:29.730 on the post-1971s 01:14:29.730 --> 01:14:32.630 to mitigate safety concerns, 01:14:32.630 --> 01:14:34.240 so we're not looking through the safety lens. 01:14:34.240 --> 01:14:36.990 I will tell you, though, we're in ongoing discussions 01:14:36.990 --> 01:14:40.290 on how, if there's more money, 01:14:40.290 --> 01:14:42.000 we could actually take that new propellor 01:14:42.000 --> 01:14:44.470 and make it more broad across the fleet, 01:14:44.470 --> 01:14:47.000 so, again, thanks to your constituents 01:14:47.000 --> 01:14:49.240 who produced a great product. 01:14:49.240 --> 01:14:50.960 - Well, again, we'll look forward to continuing 01:14:50.960 --> 01:14:53.593 that conversation, and, with that, I yield back. 01:14:55.980 --> 01:14:57.123 - [Smith] Mr. Gallagher. 01:14:58.300 --> 01:14:59.660 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman, thank you all for being here. 01:14:59.660 --> 01:15:01.660 General Goldfein, thank you for your service 01:15:01.660 --> 01:15:03.890 and your engagement with this committee. 01:15:03.890 --> 01:15:06.840 It's been very helpful particularly for us younger members. 01:15:08.150 --> 01:15:12.620 I was wondering, in 2018, we authorized via the NDAA then 01:15:12.620 --> 01:15:14.950 a series of studies on the Air Force's 01:15:14.950 --> 01:15:16.880 future aircraft inventory. 01:15:16.880 --> 01:15:19.700 One of those was conducted by CSBA, 01:15:19.700 --> 01:15:23.150 and we now have that report, a new CSBA report, 01:15:23.150 --> 01:15:25.890 coming outta that requirement that found that, quote, 01:15:25.890 --> 01:15:29.220 the current CAF predominantly consists of aging, 01:15:29.220 --> 01:15:32.420 non-stealth aircraft that are not suitable for operations 01:15:32.420 --> 01:15:35.390 in contested and highly-contested threat environments. 01:15:35.390 --> 01:15:38.100 This force structure is largely the result 01:15:38.100 --> 01:15:41.350 of decisions to cancel or prematurely truncate 01:15:41.350 --> 01:15:43.940 CAF modernization initiatives to develop and procure 01:15:43.940 --> 01:15:46.520 new weapon systems for high-end operations 01:15:46.520 --> 01:15:50.500 against modern iads, such as the F-22 and B2 programs. 01:15:50.500 --> 01:15:52.230 In addition to program costs, 01:15:52.230 --> 01:15:54.410 the primary justification for these decisions 01:15:54.410 --> 01:15:56.020 was based on a belief 01:15:56.020 --> 01:15:58.720 that low observable aircraft would not be needed 01:15:58.720 --> 01:16:01.680 in significant numbers to support contingency operations 01:16:01.680 --> 01:16:05.480 against regional aggressors like Iraq or North Korea. 01:16:05.480 --> 01:16:07.340 Although reasonable in the immediate aftermath 01:16:07.340 --> 01:16:10.710 of the Cold War, this assumption is no longer valid. 01:16:10.710 --> 01:16:11.640 I know that's a mouthful, 01:16:11.640 --> 01:16:15.340 but do you agree with that CSBA assessment? 01:16:15.340 --> 01:16:17.740 - Sir, I would say that here's my recollection, 01:16:17.740 --> 01:16:19.990 and many in this room perhaps were there 01:16:19.990 --> 01:16:24.150 when the decision was made to cancel and stop the F-22. 01:16:24.150 --> 01:16:27.900 At that time, the decision was made to reflow that money 01:16:27.900 --> 01:16:30.130 into accelerating the F-35. 01:16:30.130 --> 01:16:32.930 If we had just completed the program of record 01:16:32.930 --> 01:16:34.510 when that decision was made, 01:16:34.510 --> 01:16:38.193 we would have one thousand F-35As on the ramp today. 01:16:39.460 --> 01:16:41.110 We didn't get there. 01:16:41.110 --> 01:16:43.110 So therefore what we have is a fleet 01:16:43.110 --> 01:16:46.920 that has continued to age out as we've flown it downrange, 01:16:46.920 --> 01:16:50.050 but I would not align with any assessment 01:16:50.050 --> 01:16:53.060 that says that low observability is not critical 01:16:53.060 --> 01:16:54.260 for the future. 01:16:54.260 --> 01:16:57.870 - Well, what lessons would you then draw or suggest 01:16:57.870 --> 01:17:02.383 to future planners who may be tempted to cut modernization? 01:17:04.090 --> 01:17:06.380 - For sure for the Air Force, 01:17:06.380 --> 01:17:10.390 we're probably one of your more technical of services, 01:17:10.390 --> 01:17:14.140 so, again, and I'd love to sit down with each of you 01:17:14.140 --> 01:17:15.640 in the classified setting, 01:17:15.640 --> 01:17:17.530 when we bring you what we're investing in, 01:17:17.530 --> 01:17:19.250 in terms of modernization, 01:17:19.250 --> 01:17:21.450 and the game-changing technology 01:17:21.450 --> 01:17:22.980 that we're bringing forward, 01:17:22.980 --> 01:17:25.603 you'll see and understand why we're making the trades 01:17:25.603 --> 01:17:29.100 that we are with some of the older legacy platforms. 01:17:29.100 --> 01:17:31.633 An Air Force that doesn't modernize doesn't win. 01:17:34.640 --> 01:17:37.020 - I mean, you look at the geography of INDOPACOM, 01:17:37.020 --> 01:17:40.310 which I think we would all agree is now the priority theater 01:17:40.310 --> 01:17:43.840 if you follow the logic of the National Defense Strategy. 01:17:43.840 --> 01:17:46.310 The geography's challenging, the ranges are long, 01:17:46.310 --> 01:17:49.220 there's questions about the A2AD environment, 01:17:49.220 --> 01:17:53.033 there's questions about access to allied airfields as well. 01:17:53.033 --> 01:17:55.950 What do you say to those who would suggest we should, 01:17:55.950 --> 01:18:00.680 given that geography, be emphasizing our B-21 program, 01:18:00.680 --> 01:18:02.640 for example, and seek to grow it, 01:18:02.640 --> 01:18:05.940 perhaps also correspondingly pull back 01:18:05.940 --> 01:18:08.350 on tactical aircraft procurement? 01:18:08.350 --> 01:18:11.470 - Sir, I jokingly tell my slide builders 01:18:11.470 --> 01:18:14.540 that if I see one more slide with a big red dome over China, 01:18:14.540 --> 01:18:17.360 I'm gonna execute Choke Con on the slide builder. 01:18:17.360 --> 01:18:20.220 China can't put a block of wood red dome over itself. 01:18:20.220 --> 01:18:22.570 It can put a block of Swiss cheese, 01:18:22.570 --> 01:18:24.970 and my job is to know where the holes in and get in 01:18:24.970 --> 01:18:27.020 and hold targets at risk at the time and place 01:18:27.020 --> 01:18:28.490 of the Commander in Chief's choosing, 01:18:28.490 --> 01:18:31.290 and one of the weapon system that does that is the B-21. 01:18:32.540 --> 01:18:36.280 - Point being that A2AD poses challenges, 01:18:36.280 --> 01:18:38.360 but it's not an impenetrable wall. 01:18:38.360 --> 01:18:39.310 - [Goldfein] Never. 01:18:40.557 --> 01:18:42.460 - The Air Force has committed 01:18:42.460 --> 01:18:45.160 to stand-off hypersonic weapons, 01:18:45.160 --> 01:18:49.100 but what are our plans for stand-in hypersonic weapons 01:18:49.100 --> 01:18:50.773 associated with the F-35A? 01:18:52.040 --> 01:18:53.570 - So you may know that we down-selected 01:18:53.570 --> 01:18:56.250 from two hypersonic programs to one. 01:18:56.250 --> 01:18:57.687 - [Gallagher] This was ARRW and? 01:18:57.687 --> 01:18:59.040 - HCSW. - HCSW, yeah. 01:18:59.040 --> 01:19:00.520 - And we did that based on the fact 01:19:00.520 --> 01:19:02.640 that a combination of funding. 01:19:02.640 --> 01:19:06.240 We had gotten a lot of benefit outta the competition 01:19:06.240 --> 01:19:07.470 while it went on. 01:19:07.470 --> 01:19:11.340 The more flexible of the two was the ARRW program, 01:19:11.340 --> 01:19:13.970 so now we're pushing forth full for that, 01:19:13.970 --> 01:19:17.220 but I'll tell you that the service secretaries 01:19:17.220 --> 01:19:19.680 signed an agreement to ensure that we take the best 01:19:19.680 --> 01:19:23.020 of each service when it comes to hypersonic technology 01:19:23.020 --> 01:19:25.360 under the leadership, quite frankly, of Dr. Mike Griffin, 01:19:25.360 --> 01:19:27.920 who is really steeped in this technologically, 01:19:27.920 --> 01:19:29.990 to make sure that the Army, the Navy, 01:19:29.990 --> 01:19:31.350 the Air Force, the Marine Corps, 01:19:31.350 --> 01:19:33.060 that we're all bringing our best technology 01:19:33.060 --> 01:19:34.200 in our labs forward 01:19:34.200 --> 01:19:36.520 and making this complementary as we go forward. 01:19:36.520 --> 01:19:37.830 - Appreciate that. 01:19:37.830 --> 01:19:40.130 I am running outta time, so, General Raymond, 01:19:40.130 --> 01:19:42.340 all of my detailed questions about 01:19:42.340 --> 01:19:44.220 the future of Space Force uniforms 01:19:44.220 --> 01:19:46.030 will have to wait until the next hearing. 01:19:46.030 --> 01:19:47.560 - [Raymond] I'll be happy to come by and see you too. 01:19:47.560 --> 01:19:48.730 - Appreciate that very much. 01:19:48.730 --> 01:19:50.160 I yield. 01:19:50.160 --> 01:19:51.083 - [Smith] Mr. Brown. - Thank you. 01:19:51.083 --> 01:19:55.230 Thank you, Madam Secretary and Generals, for being here. 01:19:55.230 --> 01:19:57.220 General Goldfein, I wanna thank you for your service. 01:19:57.220 --> 01:19:59.680 Had the privilege of receiving testimony 01:19:59.680 --> 01:20:00.890 from you in this hearing, 01:20:00.890 --> 01:20:03.440 being in the presence of your presence 01:20:03.440 --> 01:20:04.830 at a variety of forums, 01:20:04.830 --> 01:20:06.600 and you're not only a fantastic leader 01:20:06.600 --> 01:20:08.590 but a real thought leader, 01:20:08.590 --> 01:20:10.560 and I hope that as you take off your uniform, 01:20:10.560 --> 01:20:11.640 you don't venture too far 01:20:11.640 --> 01:20:14.190 from the national security conversation 01:20:14.190 --> 01:20:15.910 that's happening in this country. 01:20:15.910 --> 01:20:19.480 I'm also very excited that your successor, 01:20:19.480 --> 01:20:21.170 who's been nominated by the president, 01:20:21.170 --> 01:20:24.430 I'm confident will be confirmed by the Senate, 01:20:24.430 --> 01:20:25.830 General Charles Brown, 01:20:25.830 --> 01:20:28.030 the first African-American Chief of Staff 01:20:28.030 --> 01:20:32.240 not only for the Air Force but of any service component, 01:20:32.240 --> 01:20:34.210 so I'm looking forward to working with him 01:20:34.210 --> 01:20:35.630 as we ensure that the United States 01:20:35.630 --> 01:20:40.000 has the air power necessary to counter our adversaries. 01:20:40.000 --> 01:20:43.160 I wanted to talk about the shortfall on the number of pilots 01:20:43.160 --> 01:20:48.160 that impacts readiness but take a more narrow approach. 01:20:48.160 --> 01:20:52.560 In your joint statement, you say that first resilient 01:20:52.560 --> 01:20:55.350 and ready airmen and space professionals are the bedrock 01:20:55.350 --> 01:20:57.980 of the department's readiness and lethality. 01:20:57.980 --> 01:21:01.453 You've got a pilot shortfall, and you've got a problem. 01:21:02.540 --> 01:21:07.093 You're lacking diversity and inclusion among your aviators. 01:21:09.340 --> 01:21:14.030 In April 3rd of 1939, this Congress created and funded 01:21:14.030 --> 01:21:18.480 the program that today we know as the Tuskegee Airmen. 01:21:18.480 --> 01:21:20.950 There were a thousand pilots in that program. 01:21:20.950 --> 01:21:24.590 Granted, the core of pilots was much larger 01:21:24.590 --> 01:21:27.610 as we were gearing up for World War II, 01:21:27.610 --> 01:21:31.300 but it represented .5%, small percentage of the pilots. 01:21:31.300 --> 01:21:35.250 Today, there are only 47 African-Americans 01:21:35.250 --> 01:21:37.384 who fly fixed wing in the Air Force. 01:21:37.384 --> 01:21:40.930 That's 1.5%, and I don't have the numbers for women, 01:21:40.930 --> 01:21:42.993 but it's as disturbingly low. 01:21:45.180 --> 01:21:49.080 I know that you're doing a number of things to address that, 01:21:49.080 --> 01:21:50.653 but the question is, 01:21:51.728 --> 01:21:56.090 what can we do 81 years later as a Congress 01:21:56.090 --> 01:21:59.000 to enable you to achieve the diversity, 01:21:59.000 --> 01:22:01.660 not just for the sake of diversity 01:22:01.660 --> 01:22:03.350 but to enable 01:22:03.350 --> 01:22:05.710 you and our nation 01:22:05.710 --> 01:22:07.800 to meet the readiness needs 01:22:07.800 --> 01:22:11.300 and the challenges that are faced by a shortfall 01:22:11.300 --> 01:22:14.480 in the pilots that we have in uniform? 01:22:14.480 --> 01:22:17.143 Can you please address that for me? 01:22:19.200 --> 01:22:23.620 - Well, as a pilot and someone who worked ardently 01:22:23.620 --> 01:22:26.700 to get the 1948 law that prohibited women 01:22:26.700 --> 01:22:27.900 from flying fighters, 01:22:27.900 --> 01:22:31.012 to get that law changed in 1992 01:22:31.012 --> 01:22:34.500 and the policies changed in 1993, 01:22:34.500 --> 01:22:36.836 it is a topic that matters a great deal to me, 01:22:36.836 --> 01:22:41.836 and as the secretary who recommended CQ Brown's appointment, 01:22:42.400 --> 01:22:46.050 I feel strongly that we need to occupy the talent 01:22:46.050 --> 01:22:49.030 in whatever package that talent is presented. 01:22:49.030 --> 01:22:51.690 I've been a friend of a number of Tuskegee Airmen 01:22:51.690 --> 01:22:53.570 over the decades and decades 01:22:53.570 --> 01:22:56.770 and was there when the president pinned on 01:22:57.870 --> 01:22:59.230 the general 01:22:59.230 --> 01:23:00.063 star 01:23:01.200 --> 01:23:04.360 on now-General McGee, a Tuskegee Airman, 01:23:04.360 --> 01:23:08.750 who celebrated his 100th birthday not so long ago. 01:23:08.750 --> 01:23:11.700 The first thing we have to do is recognize there's a problem 01:23:11.700 --> 01:23:14.290 and the quantification of that problem 01:23:14.290 --> 01:23:17.750 is what the RAND report recently identified for us, 01:23:17.750 --> 01:23:21.980 and then I think one of the things that will help us 01:23:21.980 --> 01:23:25.540 is the recent attention brought to military service 01:23:27.140 --> 01:23:29.400 when the Space Force was stood up. 01:23:29.400 --> 01:23:31.420 There's a new excitement about being a part 01:23:31.420 --> 01:23:32.520 of the military service. 01:23:32.520 --> 01:23:36.690 People wanna be a part of the Air Force and Space Force 01:23:36.690 --> 01:23:37.800 as a result of that. 01:23:37.800 --> 01:23:40.855 I would invite my colleagues both to speak to it as well, 01:23:40.855 --> 01:23:44.070 or I welcome meeting with you further-- 01:23:44.070 --> 01:23:46.410 - I'll take that for the record 'cause lemme just point out 01:23:46.410 --> 01:23:47.870 that this is what the report found, 01:23:47.870 --> 01:23:49.640 and we cannot be afraid of this. 01:23:49.640 --> 01:23:51.840 We have to head it, take it head-on. 01:23:51.840 --> 01:23:54.403 It says that minorities and women, 01:23:55.730 --> 01:23:58.420 the report found that barriers to minorities and women 01:23:58.420 --> 01:24:00.840 included racist and sexist comments 01:24:00.840 --> 01:24:05.190 from simulation instructors, race and gender stereotyping, 01:24:05.190 --> 01:24:07.640 and a contending with the prevailing culture. 01:24:07.640 --> 01:24:10.770 This was based on focus groups from not only students 01:24:10.770 --> 01:24:13.360 but instructors and leaders. 01:24:13.360 --> 01:24:16.560 We've got a culture problem in the Air Force, 01:24:16.560 --> 01:24:19.790 and I expressed this last week in the Navy, 01:24:19.790 --> 01:24:22.890 so I just implore you to take this on 01:24:22.890 --> 01:24:25.320 and ask Congress for your help, 01:24:25.320 --> 01:24:27.280 and in the last 20 seconds I have, 01:24:27.280 --> 01:24:29.090 let me make a pitch for this: 01:24:29.090 --> 01:24:31.520 I visited Dover Air Force Base. 01:24:31.520 --> 01:24:34.070 They're right next door to Delaware State University, 01:24:34.070 --> 01:24:36.620 a historically black college and university. 01:24:36.620 --> 01:24:39.220 They have an aviation program there. 01:24:39.220 --> 01:24:41.880 Their ROTC affiliation, unfortunately, 01:24:41.880 --> 01:24:44.853 is an hour drive away from Delaware State. 01:24:45.958 --> 01:24:49.990 Let's find flexibility to establish an ROTC unit 01:24:49.990 --> 01:24:52.660 right there at Delaware State University 01:24:52.660 --> 01:24:56.390 so they can team up with Dover and help address this need. 01:24:56.390 --> 01:24:58.290 Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.