WEBVTT

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- AFA's President, Lieutenant
General Orville Wright.

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(applause)

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- Well, good afternoon.

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We certainly saved the best and
the most important for last.

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This is your AFA president
having so much fun

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I wanted to keep you all
around as long as I could.

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So thanks for (laughs) being here.

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This is the last session of your

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Air Force Association's Air
Space and Cyber Conference.

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And the topic of this session is

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Air Force Talent Management update.

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Nothing, absolutely
nothing is more critical

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than having the most
lethal and most capable

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Air Force on the planet,

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than recruiting, developing, and retaining

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the right men and women
as its leaders and doers.

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Talent management incorporates more

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than just a promotion system.

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And our two distinguished
panelists will discuss

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developmental category
reconfiguration, recruitment,

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and the overall Air Force
Talent Management process.

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Our two panelists this afternoon are

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ready to provide brief remarks
and answer your questions,

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and we have a really neat
kind of a question system here

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that Mike's gonna help
me with that actually

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gets at which questions
are most repeated, I think.

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So without further delay, please welcome,

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Lieutenant General Brian Kelly,

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Deputy Chief of staff of
Manpower Personnel and Services,

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and his wing man, Colonel
Jason B "Ned Stark" Lamb,

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Director of Intelligence
Analysis and Innovation,

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Headquarters Air Education
and Training Command.

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General Kelly, over to you.

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Welcome.

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(applause)

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- Well, thanks everybody.

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And Orville, thanks to you guys in AFA

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for allowing us to have this forum

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and it became such a great event

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for our United States Air Force,

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so thanks for doing that.

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Good afternoon everybody,

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I know Orville said we
saved the best for last,

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but we certainly appreciate
you guys sticking around.

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We know when we're in the last
slot before the event ends,

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either your car is not working

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or you got the last airline reservation.

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So thanks for sticking
around for what we think

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is a really important topic.

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This topic, and you've heard
sort of themes this week

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from lots of folks.

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But I'll start from where
the chief started before.

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When we think about the
National Defense Strategy

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and we talked a lot this week
about the Air Force we need,

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and we talked about the
operational concepts

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that are gonna have to be in place, right?

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Multi-domain command
and control operations.

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Those kind of things that we talked about.

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You heard us come back to,
and you heard Chief Wright

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bring up in his discussion today,

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that no matter what we do in those areas,

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it's gonna be about people, right?

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And so we have been
looking forward and saying,

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as we look at the
National Defense Strategy,

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we look at the talent market.

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All things that are out there.

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What is the nation gonna need from us

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in terms of the skillsets
that we bring forward

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in our airmen?

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And more importantly for us,

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do we have the right
Talent Management system

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in place to make sure that we can develop

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and put the airmen forward
to satisfy our portion,

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to join portion for our Air Force

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in the National Defense Strategy?

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In doing that, it was
really important for us

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to look far and wide in all
places for kinds of ideas.

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There was no market on good ideas,

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and we certainly don't
have them all in the A1.

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So we have been going out
and been very collaborative

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over the last couple of years.

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And looking for lots of
feedback from the force,

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getting feedback from our
airmen, from industry.

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Lots of different places,

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to try and put these things together.

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We did the revitalizing Squadron
Report that the Chief lead,

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and got a lot of feedback from the field,

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and got a lot of efforts there.

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We held work force summits
with representatives

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from all our MAJCOMs and industry

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over the last two years

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to sort of come up with
these different things

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and talk about these key concepts.

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And then, when you
looked out in the world,

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you wanted to be able to
include and talk to anybody

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who had a thoughtful voice.

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People who are actually putting
thought, and deep thought,

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into where we needed to go.

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Not just about fixing maybe problems

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or irritants in the past,
but what do we need to do to

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transform our Talent Management
system, make it go forward?

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And that's where we
met Colonel Jason Lamb.

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So Jason and I have
actually known each other

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for a longer period than when
he came out as Ned Stark,

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and we've been able to have
conversations back and forth.

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And exchanged ideas,

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and do so in an open and
collaborative manner.

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And it's been really
helpful, I think, for me,

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and for our team to be able
to look at those things.

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Not everything that
Jason may have expelled

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we have been able to implement.

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But certainly in a variety of manners,

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his voice was helpful in
the larger conversation

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that we had going on
Talent Management reform.

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That said, I'm gonna get ready

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to turn it over to Jason here,
he's gonna give introduction.

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Just as we've always collaborated,

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I haven't given Jason any
instruction for what to say today,

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or what to do today, okay?

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So he's gonna give his
remarks and his thoughts,

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independent thoughts, on
Talent Management where we are.

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And then I'm gonna come back and sort of

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tell you guys what we're doing,

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and things that we're excited about,

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that we're sort of transforming our

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Air Force Talent Management.

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So Jason, over to you.

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- Thank you, Sir.

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So, it's an honor and a
privilege to be here with y'all.

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I'm very thankful.

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Especially to you, Sir,
and to General Goldfein.

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I think many of your peers
think you've lost your mind

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putting me up here without any rules.

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And if you weren't looking for candor,

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you picked the wrong guy.

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But kinda three things that
I wanna hit really quickly,

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because I'm more interested to hear

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what y'all's questions are,
where that discussion goes.

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I think there are three
things that we really

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need to look to when we're talking about

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any future Talent Management system.

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And the first one being, we've gotta shift

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from where we are now to
a growth mindset, okay?

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The kinda thing that cares

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about what you can do for the mission,

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and more importantly, what you
can do for your airmen now.

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And that we have to move away

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from the entire concept of
sustain superior performance,

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which anchors us in the past.

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That your past is interesting
only as it relates

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to what you can do today.

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That your past is not gonna
define or predetermine

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your path in the Air Force.

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Or limit you, artificially
propel you to places

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that you should have never been.

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So I think, I think
that'll be really powerful.

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Things like stratification, one bad strat,

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one bad interaction,

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and suddenly you are not in consideration.

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You may have grown to a place
where we need you to be.

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And that person who maybe got that strat,

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maybe decide to sit on their morals,

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and maybe that isn't the person
that we need for tomorrow,

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leading and caring for our airmen.

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So that's number one.

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Two is that we have better discriminators

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for how we select and promote folks.

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Right now, you know, on the officer side,

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we've got the stratification
system that we've talked about.

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And it's okay, but defaulting, you know,

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or lacking a system that really allows us

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to discriminate who is doing the best

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in terms of leading our airmen

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and making impact on the mission,

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so I'm excited about the new system

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that we're bringing online.

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We've created things like
knowledge based promotion testing,

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distinguished graduates from school,

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these, these other.

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You know, the one million
and one annual awards

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that we have now.

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Not to take any, you know.

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I was one of those.

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But you know, it's
gotten to the point now,

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where we have the red headed
left handed maintainer

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of the year award.

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Just because we're looking for ways

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to try and tell the people
that we should promote

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from the people that
maybe aren't quite ready.

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And we need to do better
about actually coming up

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with measures that matter.

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Actual, objective, variable data.

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Because that should lead
us to my third point,

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it's about accountability.

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For the things you do,
the things you don't do,

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the things you decide,
and the non-decisions.

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We need a better way to capture that

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so that we can actually
hold people accountable,

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have a system that has candor.

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I don't know how many times
I have heard people say,

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"Well, you shouldn't hire that person,

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because X happened."

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It is nowhere in their records,

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because somebody was afraid
to slow somebody down, right?

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So we need a system that
incentivizes candor,

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because that one mistake
isn't gonna necessarily

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define them the rest of their career.

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Especially if they learn from it,

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and they're in a better place today.

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The last piece on the accountability,

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one I'm very passionate about is,

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senior leaders need to be accountable

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for who they're pushing into,

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or hiring into leadership positions,

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positions of trust.

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When we hire someone and they get fired

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for integrity issues, lack of judgment,

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creating a toxic or
hostile work environment,

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I promise you it wasn't the first time

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that they engaged in those behaviors.

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And there was a long line
of more senior officers

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who pushed that individual along.

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There's no accountability.

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There's no feedback loop.

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That doesn't affect our
senior leaders in any way

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and until there's an
accountability mechanism

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and a way to follow up

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and have actual meaningful consequences,

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the system isn't gonna change.

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Those are just my
thoughts, I could be wrong.

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So with that I'll turn it
back over to General Kelly,

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and I very much look
forward to your questions.

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(applause)

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- Well, thanks Jason.

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I think you articulated
things a lot of us have seen.

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And it certainly resonates when we talked

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about the surveys that we did,

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and the groundwork that we
did to go out in the field

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and talk to people.

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And we've talked about this,
we squint with out ears.

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We heard those same things
loud and clear several times.

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When we think about modernizing
our Talent Management system

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and transforming our
Talent Management System

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for what we need to build in the future.

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We kinda think of it the
context that General Goldfein

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kinda set out before.

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At the center of all of it is,

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we have to have competence and character.

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We're a profession of arms,
and we want to make sure

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that we're driving our competence in a way

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that makes sense to us
and that it's underpinned

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by the character we know we need to have

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as professional airmen.

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That competence piece,

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and you heard General
Goldfein defined it is.

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Comes into four areas for us

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and you're gonna hear this thing for us.

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We want to talk about,
what is your contribution

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to executing whatever mission you have?

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How do you execute your mission?

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We want to talk about how you lead people

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and whether you have a
formal responsibility

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or informal responsibility.

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And in that leading people part,

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we'll get at those discussions of

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what is your accountability
in terms of mentoring

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and identifying your subordinates,

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and evaluating and
grading your subordinates.

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Certainly if you are a supervisor,

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one of the ways that
you're gonna be graded,

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in that discussion,

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is how are you leading the
people that you're leading?

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And how are you choosing those people?

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So that we can have some
accountability to the discussion.

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Third part managing resources,

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how you manage your
resources and what you do.

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And then the fourth part for us is,

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whatever mission you've been
given, whatever your job is,

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what did you do to improve your unit?

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How did you move it forward?

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And those four factors
really form a basis for us

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to align and synchronize
our Talent Management system

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around what we value.

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We're gonna start with
that on the officer side

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but I think you'll see
us eventually move that

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into the enlisted ranks as well

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as sort of the foundation of
us saying in a unified manner,

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this is what we value as
the United States Air Force,

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and things are going to be
synchronized around that

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and focused around that.

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We already have those
four factors by the way,

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described in what we call the
Memorandum of Instruction.

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The instruction from the
secretary of the Air Force

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who controls promotions on the
officer's side of the house.

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Her or his instruction that
goes to the promotion board

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already has those four factors
laid out and describing there

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as the things that we're
asking the board to look for

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in our officers.

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What we're doing on the officer evaluation

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is bringing in a system that
will do those same four factors

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so that we're synchronized in line.

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And I'll come back and talk about that.

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But overall in the
Talent Management system,

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I think there's four factors
that we have to get at.

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The system has to be responsive,

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meaning the inventory that we build,

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the group of airmen that we have,

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have to match the requirements we have.

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I think all of us have seen places

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where you have too much of one thing,

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too little of something else.

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We've gotta be responsive,

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and the inventory has to
match the requirements

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that are set out for what
we need to be as a Force.

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It has to be agile,

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it has to be able to adapt
to threats and change,

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both at a system level and
on an individual level.

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And we've gotta recognize that
people have different talents

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and are gonna go different ways.

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And we need to exploit those
talents and use those talents

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so it's not a one size fits all system.

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Third thing is we have to
empower and drive performance.

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We wanna be based on performance

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and what people's performance,
not other factors.

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Jason laid out some of
those things, I think.

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You know, in the past, what
I would call proxy indicators

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that have sort of come to the forefront

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when you can't determine performance.

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Whether you've decided somebody was a DG

12:38.960 --> 12:40.077
and somebody wasn't at a school,

12:40.077 --> 12:41.710
and that would propel them forward.

12:41.710 --> 12:43.047
Or somebody was an annual award winner.

12:43.047 --> 12:45.150
And we want to talk
about your performance,

12:45.150 --> 12:47.155
and how you execute your
mission, lead people,

12:47.155 --> 12:49.690
manage resources and improve the unit.

12:49.690 --> 12:52.240
And the last thing for us, and
it's really important for us,

12:52.240 --> 12:53.073
is we want the system

12:53.073 --> 12:55.370
to be much more transparent
and more simple.

12:55.370 --> 12:57.350
It needs to be an open
book test in what we do

12:57.350 --> 12:58.183
and how we go forward.

12:58.183 --> 12:59.760
And that's really important.

12:59.760 --> 13:02.050
So I can say this, it's my tribe,

13:02.050 --> 13:03.870
so I'm allowed to talk
about my tribe a little bit.

13:03.870 --> 13:05.750
But we in the A1 over time sort of

13:05.750 --> 13:07.000
developed a core competency.

13:07.000 --> 13:08.660
We had the badge in making simple hard.

13:08.660 --> 13:11.590
We can really make some
pretty simple things

13:11.590 --> 13:13.190
as difficult as we could.

13:13.190 --> 13:14.023
We're getting away from that,

13:14.023 --> 13:15.890
we're trying to be more transparent.

13:15.890 --> 13:17.130
You know, one good example of that is

13:17.130 --> 13:19.440
that Memorandum of Instruction
I just talked to you about.

13:19.440 --> 13:21.860
That's published out there for
the entire Air Force to see.

13:21.860 --> 13:22.790
Everybody can read that

13:22.790 --> 13:24.860
and everybody can
understand what's out there.

13:24.860 --> 13:27.400
Doing similar things in
assignments to be more transparent.

13:27.400 --> 13:29.270
But those are the big four factors.

13:29.270 --> 13:30.320
We've got a number of programs

13:30.320 --> 13:31.990
that we're gonna talk to you guys about,

13:31.990 --> 13:33.740
and hopefully your questions will come in.

13:33.740 --> 13:35.640
We're changing the
officer evaluation system,

13:35.640 --> 13:36.690
you've heard about that.

13:36.690 --> 13:38.880
We already launched and put out there

13:38.880 --> 13:41.550
a new way to build, who
are gonna be instructors?

13:41.550 --> 13:42.710
Who's gonna be the folks who teach

13:42.710 --> 13:44.240
the next generation of folks command?

13:44.240 --> 13:45.073
We called it

13:45.073 --> 13:47.540
The Officer Instructor and
Recruiter Special Duty Program.

13:47.540 --> 13:49.320
That launched this past Spring.

13:49.320 --> 13:50.920
It is designed to help us make sure

13:50.920 --> 13:52.310
we value and pick the right people

13:52.310 --> 13:53.880
to build the next group of people.

13:53.880 --> 13:55.880
We changed our promotion
recommendation forum

13:55.880 --> 13:57.322
on the officer's side to what we call

13:57.322 --> 14:00.440
a potential focus promotion
recommendation form,

14:00.440 --> 14:02.150
to make sure we had a clear voice

14:02.150 --> 14:03.700
and a clear discussion to the board

14:03.700 --> 14:06.300
without any extra outside influence.

14:06.300 --> 14:08.120
We're working on and we've
been around to road shows

14:08.120 --> 14:08.953
to many places.

14:08.953 --> 14:11.910
I think we saw 3700 airmen

14:11.910 --> 14:14.050
across the Air Force and the
road shows that went out,

14:14.050 --> 14:15.670
on developmental categories.

14:15.670 --> 14:18.320
How do we reorganize our promotion system

14:18.320 --> 14:21.939
so that we can unlock
developmental agility?

14:21.939 --> 14:23.840
We have discovered over time,

14:23.840 --> 14:25.449
and you guys will probably
resonate with this that,

14:25.449 --> 14:28.277
there's sort of a one size
fits all developmental path.

14:28.277 --> 14:30.380
And that one size fits
all developmental path

14:30.380 --> 14:31.530
really served us well, right?

14:31.530 --> 14:34.393
It's built the best Air Force
in the world for us over time.

14:34.393 --> 14:35.857
But what has happened is,

14:35.857 --> 14:37.820
and we've gotten into
this path where everybody

14:37.820 --> 14:39.450
has to go on the same command track,

14:39.450 --> 14:41.030
where you go through
being a flight commander,

14:41.030 --> 14:42.930
squadron commander, group
commander, wing commander,

14:42.930 --> 14:44.150
going forward.

14:44.150 --> 14:45.577
To be after the National Defense Strategy

14:45.577 --> 14:46.560
and what it requires,

14:46.560 --> 14:47.810
is we need more agile development.

14:47.810 --> 14:49.850
We need to let people
develop in different ways.

14:49.850 --> 14:51.490
Whether that's in space, cyber,

14:51.490 --> 14:53.900
support, force modernization.

14:53.900 --> 14:55.742
And what we're doing is, by unlocking.

14:55.742 --> 14:58.886
Unlocking the ability
to not be beholden to

14:58.886 --> 15:00.640
or not worry about how you're going to

15:00.640 --> 15:02.330
compete against others
in a promotion board

15:02.330 --> 15:03.470
who maybe not like you.

15:03.470 --> 15:05.610
It gives us the idea that
we can develop differently

15:05.610 --> 15:06.900
and develop in the ways we need to.

15:06.900 --> 15:08.670
So that's really important.

15:08.670 --> 15:10.440
So all those things are ongoing.

15:10.440 --> 15:11.870
And we look forward to your questions.

15:11.870 --> 15:13.350
I wanna point out what we have up here,

15:13.350 --> 15:15.571
is we have a way for you guys
to type your questions in,

15:15.571 --> 15:17.522
and bring them out, and you can vote.

15:17.522 --> 15:18.840
So we know we're gonna have

15:18.840 --> 15:20.540
a limited amount of time here today.

15:20.540 --> 15:21.670
And you can vote for which questions

15:21.670 --> 15:22.850
you want to go to the top.

15:22.850 --> 15:24.690
And our moderator, she
will take the questions

15:24.690 --> 15:25.930
that are at the top,

15:25.930 --> 15:27.950
and keep asking us to answer those ones.

15:27.950 --> 15:29.300
And any ones that we don't get to,

15:29.300 --> 15:30.720
we will come back and make sure

15:30.720 --> 15:31.990
we publish them out on the website,

15:31.990 --> 15:34.150
make sure we get all
your questions answered.

15:34.150 --> 15:36.250
And with that, I want to be
quiet and listen to you guys,

15:36.250 --> 15:37.670
just like we have been,
squint with our ears

15:37.670 --> 15:38.560
and hear what your questions are

15:38.560 --> 15:40.100
about our Talent Management reform.

15:40.100 --> 15:41.100
So over to you guys.

15:42.300 --> 15:43.527
- Thanks very much, Brian.

15:43.527 --> 15:44.950
This amazing system.

15:44.950 --> 15:47.663
So we got the most votes for the question

15:47.663 --> 15:48.970
that I'm about to read.

15:48.970 --> 15:50.553
But before I do that,

15:50.553 --> 15:52.620
I have to sit here as sort
of the elder in the room

15:52.620 --> 15:53.853
and make an observation.

15:54.900 --> 15:59.220
So for our officer leadership,

15:59.220 --> 16:01.410
I can say this based on about 50 years

16:01.410 --> 16:02.420
since I raised my right hand.

16:02.420 --> 16:04.640
We have the finest leadership,

16:04.640 --> 16:05.750
and every generation is better.

16:05.750 --> 16:07.695
But we have the finest
senior officer leadership

16:07.695 --> 16:10.380
our Air Force has ever had.

16:10.380 --> 16:13.967
And while we got CQ Brown,
General Brown off working the,

16:13.967 --> 16:18.500
strengthening the war fighter
and industry relationship,

16:18.500 --> 16:20.360
we got Misses Brown sitting here.

16:20.360 --> 16:21.420
So thanks for being here.

16:21.420 --> 16:25.060
And then Mac McMurray who's deputy

16:25.060 --> 16:27.440
at the Air Force Material
Command at Right Path.

16:27.440 --> 16:29.400
And ensures we have the most capable

16:29.400 --> 16:31.580
lethal weapons systems in the world.

16:31.580 --> 16:34.040
And then Tony Cotton,
the Vice and strategic

16:34.040 --> 16:35.700
direct global strike command.

16:35.700 --> 16:37.340
And ensures the planet remains safe.

16:37.340 --> 16:39.350
And we have a credible deterrence,

16:39.350 --> 16:41.195
we have a chain of credible deterrence,

16:41.195 --> 16:44.070
for two legs at the triad.

16:44.070 --> 16:46.980
And then of course,
General Cobra Harrigian,

16:46.980 --> 16:50.110
who's looking the Russians
in the eye every day.

16:50.110 --> 16:52.000
Terrific leadership.

16:52.000 --> 16:54.951
With that, let me read
the first question here.

16:54.951 --> 16:57.273
Oh, hold on Mike, we'll get it.

17:02.700 --> 17:04.430
Second one, okay.

17:04.430 --> 17:08.840
When will we stop using time
on station to drive assignments

17:08.840 --> 17:12.381
and actually look at preferences
and mission qualifications

17:12.381 --> 17:14.673
and/or developmental needs.

17:16.470 --> 17:18.800
- So I'll go first, and then
Jason if you wanna hop in

17:18.800 --> 17:20.806
if you have any comments in this so that.

17:20.806 --> 17:24.010
One developmental transformation
I've just mentioned,

17:24.010 --> 17:25.050
developmental categories,

17:25.050 --> 17:27.710
gives us the opportunity to do just that.

17:27.710 --> 17:28.900
Right now what happens is,

17:28.900 --> 17:30.480
I think all of us get into this mode

17:30.480 --> 17:33.620
and of, if you stay too long on a station

17:33.620 --> 17:35.040
you might be considered, right?

17:35.040 --> 17:36.150
A homesteader.

17:36.150 --> 17:37.510
And when you go to a promotion board,

17:37.510 --> 17:38.840
or you go to look at something.

17:38.840 --> 17:40.990
Somebody will say, "Well, they
stayed too long at that place

17:40.990 --> 17:42.500
and they've homesteaded."

17:42.500 --> 17:44.425
As we've worked on this
developmental categories idea,

17:44.425 --> 17:46.400
we looked at how to break it down

17:46.400 --> 17:48.450
from our current single line
of the Air Force category,

17:48.450 --> 17:50.760
into six developmental categories.

17:50.760 --> 17:54.820
Air and Special Operations,
Space Operations,

17:54.820 --> 17:58.600
Nuclear and Missile Operations,
Information Warfare,

17:58.600 --> 18:01.140
Combat Support, and Force Modernization.

18:01.140 --> 18:03.410
Each of those areas now has the ability

18:03.410 --> 18:05.140
to adjust those discussions and decide,

18:05.140 --> 18:06.940
what's the right time on station criteria?

18:06.940 --> 18:09.030
And how do I look at time
on station different?

18:09.030 --> 18:11.353
I'll use the force modernization
category in particular

18:11.353 --> 18:13.458
which General McMurray
and his team out there.

18:13.458 --> 18:16.770
But there is great value in
us having more continuity

18:16.770 --> 18:19.136
and more time to work in a
program, an acquisition program.

18:19.136 --> 18:21.400
And have that continuity from year to year

18:21.400 --> 18:23.000
as we go through a program.

18:23.000 --> 18:25.240
This will allow us to do that without that

18:25.240 --> 18:27.300
having a negative impact
in terms of the promotion,

18:27.300 --> 18:30.210
because the force modernization
category will be meeting

18:30.210 --> 18:32.210
at promotion board and
looking at other officers

18:32.210 --> 18:34.700
who have the same set and
same values and discussions.

18:34.700 --> 18:36.600
So this gives us the opportunity
to do that and adjust

18:36.600 --> 18:38.850
those time on station
things to what's appropriate

18:38.850 --> 18:40.404
and not just have us move through,

18:40.404 --> 18:42.270
just to move through and be competitive,

18:42.270 --> 18:43.670
so that's where we're going.

18:44.860 --> 18:45.693
- Thank you, Sir.

18:45.693 --> 18:48.660
So my preference is

18:48.660 --> 18:50.560
to actually have a system that's flexible,

18:50.560 --> 18:54.420
where commanders and supervisors
can work with a member.

18:54.420 --> 18:56.060
And as long as we're being intentional,

18:56.060 --> 18:57.730
they can choose what's right.

18:57.730 --> 19:00.224
There may be something
going on with the member,

19:00.224 --> 19:01.750
and it makes a lot of sense.

19:01.750 --> 19:03.952
Either programmatically or for the member,

19:03.952 --> 19:06.040
for them to stay in place.

19:06.040 --> 19:10.920
I think our total force mission partners

19:10.920 --> 19:12.230
don't necessarily have a problem

19:12.230 --> 19:14.750
with people staying in
a place for a while.

19:14.750 --> 19:17.840
And I think they're pretty
darn good at what they do.

19:17.840 --> 19:20.750
So I think this is
something that we can crack.

19:20.750 --> 19:22.620
I think on the officer side,

19:22.620 --> 19:24.760
it might be more practical
in the short term,

19:24.760 --> 19:27.080
'cause we're implementing
the talent marketplace.

19:27.080 --> 19:28.510
I know there're plans in the future

19:28.510 --> 19:30.510
for talent marketplace to be employed

19:30.510 --> 19:33.300
on the enlisted side of the Force.

19:33.300 --> 19:35.560
Some of these things are
just a matter of scale,

19:35.560 --> 19:38.610
and how do we do it at scale,
and accommodate everybody's

19:38.610 --> 19:41.480
professional development
requirements and balance those,

19:41.480 --> 19:42.490
that with their needs.

19:42.490 --> 19:44.020
Just my thoughts.

19:44.020 --> 19:46.010
- [Orville] Okay, next question.

19:46.010 --> 19:49.310
Why do we put so much weight on DG,

19:49.310 --> 19:51.688
distinguished graduate
from school for promotions

19:51.688 --> 19:53.883
when that does not show leadership?

19:55.320 --> 19:57.680
- Yeah, so I think this
is a great question

19:57.680 --> 20:00.190
and you heard Jason tee this up before.

20:00.190 --> 20:02.340
And he and I have talked
about this subject.

20:02.340 --> 20:04.450
I guess I would argue our current system

20:04.450 --> 20:07.830
doesn't do a great job
of being able to truly

20:07.830 --> 20:09.503
allow performance to be
the distinguishing factor

20:09.503 --> 20:10.870
between two airmen.

20:10.870 --> 20:13.580
Too often, whether it's because
of the stratification system

20:13.580 --> 20:15.440
or other ways,

20:15.440 --> 20:18.070
there are lots of reports
that look very similar.

20:18.070 --> 20:20.260
And what happens when
reports look similar,

20:20.260 --> 20:22.350
if you are looking for an easy button,

20:22.350 --> 20:24.790
you start to find other
discriminators and other ways

20:24.790 --> 20:27.260
to tell the difference between
one officer and another.

20:27.260 --> 20:28.980
And so you revert to things like,

20:28.980 --> 20:30.390
this one was a distinguished graduate,

20:30.390 --> 20:31.840
this one wasn't a distinguished graduate.

20:31.840 --> 20:33.900
This one went to this
particular award ceremony,

20:33.900 --> 20:35.090
this one didn't go.

20:35.090 --> 20:37.760
And those not always the very best means

20:37.760 --> 20:39.653
to determine performance
and really figure out.

20:39.653 --> 20:42.190
What we're putting in place
with those four factors

20:42.190 --> 20:43.550
in our discussion.

20:43.550 --> 20:45.302
Is not only using those four factors,

20:45.302 --> 20:47.950
but using those four factors to help us

20:47.950 --> 20:50.230
come up with a objective score.

20:50.230 --> 20:52.730
And the objective score
will be something like this.

20:52.730 --> 20:55.780
Each of the areas, leading
people, executing your mission,

20:55.780 --> 20:58.220
will have sort of a vignettes of behavior

20:58.220 --> 20:59.490
that describe your behavior

20:59.490 --> 21:01.450
against a set of competencies in there.

21:01.450 --> 21:03.890
The rater is gonna go through
and read those different areas

21:03.890 --> 21:06.330
and say, okay, are you
a novice in this area?

21:06.330 --> 21:07.340
Or are you an expert in this area?

21:07.340 --> 21:10.500
Let me just decide what your
behavior describes itself at.

21:10.500 --> 21:12.530
That's going to lend
itself to having eventually

21:12.530 --> 21:14.100
some kind of score.

21:14.100 --> 21:15.920
We're still in the formation stages,

21:15.920 --> 21:17.690
but right now we're thinking
about a seven point scale.

21:17.690 --> 21:19.838
And you can say okay, when
I go through this process,

21:19.838 --> 21:23.730
for executing a mission I
get a 5.5 on my scorecard,

21:23.730 --> 21:26.133
and when I look at leading
people I get a 4.9.

21:27.190 --> 21:28.410
And then want we want to be able to do,

21:28.410 --> 21:30.460
rather than have a stratification is,

21:30.460 --> 21:32.470
use that and have that be measured,

21:32.470 --> 21:34.970
both from the rater's profile, you know.

21:34.970 --> 21:35.803
What is this rater?

21:35.803 --> 21:36.930
Is this rater an easy grader?

21:36.930 --> 21:37.940
Is this rater a hard grader?

21:37.940 --> 21:39.900
Are they Santa Clause or are they Grinch?

21:39.900 --> 21:41.280
In terms of what they give out.

21:41.280 --> 21:43.110
Have some kind of normalization of that,

21:43.110 --> 21:46.170
like we've seen our sister
services do in similar fashions.

21:46.170 --> 21:48.940
And then give us a chance to
compare that person's score

21:48.940 --> 21:49.900
across their peers.

21:49.900 --> 21:51.585
Whether it's in that
developmental category,

21:51.585 --> 21:52.730
but at that grade.

21:52.730 --> 21:54.790
So all majors who happen to be this AFSC

21:54.790 --> 21:55.970
across this category.

21:55.970 --> 21:57.694
This is how you score
and how you fair it out.

21:57.694 --> 21:59.960
We think that's a better way for us

21:59.960 --> 22:02.120
to be able to drive
and empower performance

22:02.120 --> 22:03.050
and make sure we're doing that

22:03.050 --> 22:05.550
without getting into a discussion of

22:05.550 --> 22:08.330
who was a distinguished
graduate or who wasn't.

22:08.330 --> 22:09.430
So that's our method,

22:09.430 --> 22:10.623
and that's where we're going right now,

22:10.623 --> 22:12.157
and that's what we're testing out.

22:14.320 --> 22:15.470
- I've written on this.

22:16.700 --> 22:18.230
(laughs) Right?

22:18.230 --> 22:21.090
I've been a distinguished
grad, I've been a top grad.

22:21.090 --> 22:22.053
It doesn't matter.

22:23.010 --> 22:25.004
I don't care what you know,

22:25.004 --> 22:27.883
unless you actually
use it to do something.

22:29.080 --> 22:31.513
So if I were king for the day,

22:32.587 --> 22:34.410
DGs would be gone, they'd be mass,

22:34.410 --> 22:35.620
they wouldn't be handed out anymore.

22:35.620 --> 22:36.720
They just wouldn't.

22:36.720 --> 22:38.740
Because as long as they're around,

22:38.740 --> 22:40.500
somebody's gonna look to them.

22:40.500 --> 22:41.410
Looking forward to the day

22:41.410 --> 22:44.220
when we have an evaluation
system where we don't have to.

22:44.220 --> 22:46.100
The problem is, if we do away with that,

22:46.100 --> 22:48.740
we're gonna latch on to
something else that's, you know,

22:48.740 --> 22:51.330
equally worthless or worse.

22:51.330 --> 22:53.220
But it should be gone tomorrow.

22:53.220 --> 22:56.290
On the broader subject,
valuing the school,

22:56.290 --> 22:58.100
and those kinds of things.

22:58.100 --> 22:59.733
I have four Master's Degrees.

23:00.810 --> 23:01.643
Why?

23:03.142 --> 23:05.271
(laughs)

23:05.271 --> 23:07.521
(applause)

23:09.350 --> 23:11.800
Three of them are in the same subject,

23:11.800 --> 23:14.320
so no wonder I was the top
grad the last time around.

23:14.320 --> 23:16.970
It only took me three
tries to figure it out.

23:16.970 --> 23:19.380
What is it we're trying to do here?

23:19.380 --> 23:22.680
I think there's a question
where a blank whiteboard

23:22.680 --> 23:24.270
is really valuable in saying,

23:24.270 --> 23:26.070
what is it we're actually
trying to accomplish?

23:26.070 --> 23:28.070
And if we were trying to build that today,

23:28.070 --> 23:29.740
and that's a lot of
discussion that we've had,

23:29.740 --> 23:30.573
quite honestly.

23:30.573 --> 23:32.770
So don't think that I'm
talking out of sync.

23:32.770 --> 23:34.670
These are conversations that we've had,

23:34.670 --> 23:36.980
real, good conversations.

23:36.980 --> 23:38.960
What is it we're actually trying to do?

23:38.960 --> 23:42.270
And how unintentionally in
trying to do the right thing

23:42.270 --> 23:45.220
have we strayed from that target?

23:45.220 --> 23:46.270
Those, you know.

23:46.270 --> 23:49.260
So I got the first
Master's Degree on my own.

23:49.260 --> 23:50.360
Those other three,

23:50.360 --> 23:52.870
those are three years

23:52.870 --> 23:55.853
that I wasn't out there leading airmen.

23:56.770 --> 23:59.010
That was three years
where I could have been

23:59.010 --> 24:03.110
contributing the mission, that were lost.

24:03.110 --> 24:05.010
I mean they were, they were just lost.

24:07.058 --> 24:08.060
Yeah.

24:08.060 --> 24:08.893
Just my view.

24:08.893 --> 24:09.726
- Yeah, thanks.

24:09.726 --> 24:12.270
Let me just add one other part to this.

24:12.270 --> 24:14.250
You heard Jason say, you
know, why do I have these?

24:14.250 --> 24:15.220
And what am I doing?

24:15.220 --> 24:16.510
We really want to get to.

24:16.510 --> 24:19.090
So competencies and your degrees and stuff

24:19.090 --> 24:21.397
are about what you learned
and what skillset you have.

24:21.397 --> 24:23.980
But what we're really interested
is, what you do with that.

24:23.980 --> 24:25.110
What is your performance?

24:25.110 --> 24:27.280
How have you actually translated

24:27.280 --> 24:29.960
that competency and that
skillset into producing things?

24:29.960 --> 24:32.440
How have you translated into
how you execute your mission?

24:32.440 --> 24:34.337
How you lead people, how
you manage your resources,

24:34.337 --> 24:35.920
and how you improve your units.

24:35.920 --> 24:37.340
Those who can exploit those things

24:37.340 --> 24:38.700
and use their competencies in a way

24:38.700 --> 24:40.070
that's going to be resonating.

24:40.070 --> 24:41.260
Those are who we want to make sure

24:41.260 --> 24:43.520
we push forward in the system,
and who we want to make sure

24:43.520 --> 24:45.753
we're building towards the
leaders we need in the future.

24:48.080 --> 24:49.560
- Okay, next question.

24:49.560 --> 24:52.173
How do we reward late bloomers,

24:53.120 --> 24:54.790
and at the same time slow down

24:54.790 --> 24:57.790
high potential officers who
don't perform as they get older?

24:59.530 --> 25:01.479
- You can start, I'll come.
- Thank you, Sir.

25:01.479 --> 25:03.393
I was hoping this would get asked.

25:05.600 --> 25:07.480
So not all this is original thought okay,

25:07.480 --> 25:10.000
so please nobody
criticize me saying, well,

25:10.000 --> 25:13.743
that's not new or think that
I'm some genius that I'm not.

25:16.650 --> 25:18.860
year groups need to go away.

25:18.860 --> 25:21.160
They just, they need to go away.

25:21.160 --> 25:23.760
You're either ready to be
considered for promotion

25:23.760 --> 25:24.920
or you're not.

25:24.920 --> 25:26.950
In the zone, above the
zone, below the zone.

25:26.950 --> 25:29.030
It's all driving unhealthy behaviors

25:30.645 --> 25:32.220
with the best of intentions.

25:32.220 --> 25:34.070
All this was created for
the best of intentions

25:34.070 --> 25:34.903
with a great purpose.

25:34.903 --> 25:35.880
Just like most of the laws

25:35.880 --> 25:37.380
that the congress have passed.

25:39.280 --> 25:41.137
Right? And that's also why
on the hairdryer it says,

25:41.137 --> 25:42.390
"Don't use this in the shower."

25:42.390 --> 25:44.250
Because some idiot did.

25:44.250 --> 25:47.846
So do away with the year groups.

25:47.846 --> 25:51.675
But also we get, we get towards those.

25:51.675 --> 25:54.800
We get towards those
measures that we were,

25:54.800 --> 25:56.667
we were talking about before.

25:56.667 --> 25:58.013
But the.

26:03.270 --> 26:05.363
Sorry, completely drawing a blank.

26:06.658 --> 26:09.570
The way that we really
wipe the slate clean

26:09.570 --> 26:13.950
is by masking previous evaluations

26:13.950 --> 26:15.853
from promotion board consideration.

26:17.090 --> 26:19.920
At least when you reach
the new rank, right?

26:19.920 --> 26:20.770
'Cause what you do,

26:20.770 --> 26:22.160
once you're promoted
to Lieutenant Colonel,

26:22.160 --> 26:23.750
why do I care what you did as a Major?

26:23.750 --> 26:25.360
Unless you're actually applying that

26:25.360 --> 26:26.710
to what you're doing today.

26:27.860 --> 26:29.440
So we shouldn't be reaching to the past,

26:29.440 --> 26:31.330
we should be looking at
where people are now,

26:31.330 --> 26:33.530
and having a system that
allows us to evaluate

26:33.530 --> 26:35.530
where people are today.

26:35.530 --> 26:37.530
I don't know how many times
I've had a really sharp

26:37.530 --> 26:41.240
Master Sargent that was
ready for the next stipe,

26:41.240 --> 26:42.342
but the council I got was,

26:42.342 --> 26:44.580
you're wasting your stratification,

26:44.580 --> 26:46.392
you're wasting the push
on this individual,

26:46.392 --> 26:48.920
because two years ago they screwed up

26:48.920 --> 26:51.520
and failed their fitness assessment.

26:51.520 --> 26:53.480
Doesn't matter if that
person is the most fit person

26:53.480 --> 26:54.830
in my unit today.

26:54.830 --> 26:56.430
And the most ready to
lead, and does the best

26:56.430 --> 26:59.240
taking care of their
airmen, I'm wasting that.

26:59.240 --> 27:00.680
Why?

27:00.680 --> 27:02.240
They learned from that mistake,

27:02.240 --> 27:03.430
look at where they are today

27:03.430 --> 27:04.870
and what they're providing for our airmen,

27:04.870 --> 27:06.380
and what they can do tomorrow?

27:06.380 --> 27:10.520
So why are we putting someone
in a multi-year penalty box

27:10.520 --> 27:11.442
for.

27:11.442 --> 27:13.600
(applause)

27:13.600 --> 27:15.283
For something non-criminal.

27:16.190 --> 27:18.220
So I think when, you know, when people.

27:18.220 --> 27:19.570
People start ringing their hands, though,

27:19.570 --> 27:22.480
when you start talking
about masking at least

27:22.480 --> 27:26.140
for promotion purposes,
previous evaluations.

27:26.140 --> 27:28.840
But I think that's the only
wat to get there, really.

27:28.840 --> 27:31.330
Where are you today is what I care about.

27:31.330 --> 27:32.460
- Thanks Jason.

27:32.460 --> 27:34.440
A couple things to add in that discussion.

27:34.440 --> 27:37.510
So I know our enlisted force
here already knows this,

27:37.510 --> 27:39.920
but this is already what
we've sort of transitioned to

27:39.920 --> 27:40.753
on the enlisted side.

27:40.753 --> 27:43.310
So we only look back a
certain number of years

27:43.310 --> 27:44.430
to make sure where we go.

27:44.430 --> 27:46.200
We don't go back through
the entire record.

27:46.200 --> 27:48.430
I think we'll eventually
get to a similar discussion

27:48.430 --> 27:49.630
on the officer side.

27:49.630 --> 27:51.190
But one of the things
I wanted to point out

27:51.190 --> 27:54.009
in this discussion of year
groups and time phasing is,

27:54.009 --> 27:55.770
the opportunity that we have

27:55.770 --> 27:57.650
that the congress allowed us to get.

27:57.650 --> 27:58.899
So in recent years,

27:58.899 --> 28:00.600
there's been a lot of discussion
about Talent Management.

28:00.600 --> 28:01.920
And the United States Congress,

28:01.920 --> 28:03.635
in particularly The Sennett, has helped us

28:03.635 --> 28:05.688
by passing some things last year.

28:05.688 --> 28:06.790
One we call

28:06.790 --> 28:09.440
the Defense Officer Personnel
Management Act, DOPMA.

28:09.440 --> 28:11.281
New reforms that gave us
opportunities, and tools,

28:11.281 --> 28:13.740
and flexibilities that
we're just now exploring.

28:13.740 --> 28:15.260
I'm gonna point out my friend over here,

28:15.260 --> 28:17.294
Vice Admiral John
Nowell, from the Navy N1.

28:17.294 --> 28:19.890
He and I, and our counterparts
in the army and ring,

28:19.890 --> 28:22.170
are all sort of working towards,

28:22.170 --> 28:24.937
how do we exploit these
new things that we have?

28:24.937 --> 28:25.770
One of the options that it gives you

28:25.770 --> 28:26.850
in these new authorities from DOPMA,

28:26.850 --> 28:29.920
is to set up sort of a way
for your promotion system

28:29.920 --> 28:33.200
to rather than have a
promotion year group,

28:33.200 --> 28:34.480
work through the process and say,

28:34.480 --> 28:35.910
this is your in the zone promotion

28:35.910 --> 28:37.670
and this is your above the
zone promotion upper out,

28:37.670 --> 28:39.747
is give you a sort of five year space

28:39.747 --> 28:42.140
to look at those
promotions over that time.

28:42.140 --> 28:45.134
And some folks might be
developing on a faster pace,

28:45.134 --> 28:46.620
it might be more competitive

28:46.620 --> 28:47.830
in the beginning part of that zone.

28:47.830 --> 28:49.490
Some people might be developing

28:49.490 --> 28:50.850
on an average pace with their peers,

28:50.850 --> 28:52.390
and be ready in the
middle part of that zone.

28:52.390 --> 28:54.060
And some people might be late bloomers,

28:54.060 --> 28:55.450
that's part of the question was there.

28:55.450 --> 28:57.170
And develop towards the end of that zone.

28:57.170 --> 28:59.680
And people would be considered
through that entire process

28:59.680 --> 29:00.960
so that we're picking those folks who are

29:00.960 --> 29:03.460
developing at the right pace
and developing the right way

29:03.460 --> 29:04.720
and looking at that whole thing.

29:04.720 --> 29:06.850
So that gets rid of, for us, potential

29:06.850 --> 29:08.110
of having to look at year groups,

29:08.110 --> 29:10.137
and having to look at below
the zone, in the zone,

29:10.137 --> 29:10.970
and above the zone.

29:10.970 --> 29:13.750
And a way that we can
really manage in a new way.

29:13.750 --> 29:15.110
So that's exciting for us.

29:15.110 --> 29:17.370
The pace at which we change
those things, though.

29:17.370 --> 29:20.100
I just caution from my seat,
we have to be careful, right?

29:20.100 --> 29:22.280
We have to be careful
as we make a transition

29:22.280 --> 29:23.660
that we don't break a lot of glass

29:23.660 --> 29:24.760
when we're making those transitions.

29:24.760 --> 29:27.050
So as we're doing this and
putting these programs in place,

29:27.050 --> 29:28.270
we're trying to be pretty careful

29:28.270 --> 29:30.277
about how we transition,
when we transition.

29:30.277 --> 29:32.350
And making sure where
we're not leaving anybody

29:32.350 --> 29:33.573
behind in that process.

29:35.440 --> 29:36.640
- Okay, next question.

29:36.640 --> 29:40.863
Is the Air Force considering
psychological profiling

29:40.863 --> 29:43.599
for commander candidates or senior leaders

29:43.599 --> 29:46.683
to get after the toxic leadership problem.

29:48.180 --> 29:49.580
- I'll go on this one.

29:49.580 --> 29:52.086
So we're doing a lot of things.

29:52.086 --> 29:55.345
And you heard General Goldfein
during the Town Hall session

29:55.345 --> 29:57.410
really commit to our discussion about

29:57.410 --> 29:58.290
how do we identify

29:58.290 --> 29:59.800
and make sure we're
working on toxic leaders.

29:59.800 --> 30:00.633
Let me tell you what we're doing.

30:00.633 --> 30:02.380
I don't think we're doing
psychological profiles

30:02.380 --> 30:03.870
as a part of that discussion.

30:03.870 --> 30:05.126
But let me tell you what we are doing.

30:05.126 --> 30:07.030
So General Cotton is sitting over here.

30:07.030 --> 30:08.295
And down at Air University,

30:08.295 --> 30:10.250
they have a leadership development course

30:10.250 --> 30:11.980
that we put in place in the last year.

30:11.980 --> 30:13.272
Now these guys did a
great job standing it up.

30:13.272 --> 30:15.330
It is a leadership development course

30:15.330 --> 30:18.160
that is for folks who
we think are going to

30:18.160 --> 30:19.810
at some point in time, be competitive for,

30:19.810 --> 30:21.230
and become squadron commanders.

30:21.230 --> 30:23.240
And it is a gap that we
saw on our development.

30:23.240 --> 30:25.340
And it is mostly focused
on the soft skills

30:25.340 --> 30:27.140
that those folks are gonna need.

30:27.140 --> 30:28.830
The interpersonal skills
they're gonna need

30:28.830 --> 30:29.980
to lead effectively.

30:29.980 --> 30:32.720
Knowing themselves, their
emotion quotient if you will.

30:32.720 --> 30:34.810
Making sure that that's maximized.

30:34.810 --> 30:36.500
Giving them the skillsets they need

30:36.500 --> 30:39.450
to effectively lead and
be inspirational leaders,

30:39.450 --> 30:40.480
as you heard the chief said,

30:40.480 --> 30:41.660
as apposed to toxic leaders.

30:41.660 --> 30:43.800
So we put that in place.

30:43.800 --> 30:46.040
The new OPR system that we talked about.

30:46.040 --> 30:47.858
When we talk about that
leading people category,

30:47.858 --> 30:50.590
this is what we're thinking
and where we're going

30:50.590 --> 30:51.900
on this discussion.

30:51.900 --> 30:53.774
Before I evaluate the person who I'm gonna

30:53.774 --> 30:56.610
put my, you know, discussion on

30:56.610 --> 30:57.660
how they're leading people.

30:57.660 --> 30:59.560
Before I do that, part
of our thought process

30:59.560 --> 31:00.640
and our creation is,

31:00.640 --> 31:03.886
that that person needs to
get sort of 360 feedback

31:03.886 --> 31:06.044
from them before they
evaluate that person.

31:06.044 --> 31:08.170
Not in the, not necessary
in a formal tool.

31:08.170 --> 31:09.540
It could be an informal way.

31:09.540 --> 31:10.410
But if I'm gonna be.

31:10.410 --> 31:11.243
If I'm a group commander

31:11.243 --> 31:12.810
and I'm gonna evaluate
a squadron commander.

31:12.810 --> 31:14.740
Before I evaluate how
they're leading people,

31:14.740 --> 31:16.208
I need to talk to their
fellow squadron commanders,

31:16.208 --> 31:18.170
I need to talk to some
of their subordinates.

31:18.170 --> 31:19.903
I need to make sure I
have some information

31:19.903 --> 31:23.620
that gives me a comfortable
sense that what I see

31:23.620 --> 31:24.680
in terms of how that person

31:24.680 --> 31:26.580
presents themselves to me as the leader,

31:26.580 --> 31:28.662
is accurate in terms of
how their leading people.

31:28.662 --> 31:30.060
That's part of the process

31:30.060 --> 31:31.150
and what we want to get after in here.

31:31.150 --> 31:32.647
So those are things that we're doing

31:32.647 --> 31:34.300
to try and make sure we go.

31:34.300 --> 31:35.670
But I'm gonna touch on one thing more

31:35.670 --> 31:36.640
before I turn over to Jason.

31:36.640 --> 31:37.940
You heard Jason mention,

31:37.940 --> 31:40.481
we can't be afraid of
documenting something.

31:40.481 --> 31:42.083
We have a culture in our Air Force,

31:42.083 --> 31:43.450
that I think all you guys would admit,

31:43.450 --> 31:44.572
especially on the officer side.

31:44.572 --> 31:46.640
Way more so on the officer side.

31:46.640 --> 31:48.130
That we don't wanna document things

31:48.130 --> 31:49.950
for fear that it's
going to derail somebody

31:49.950 --> 31:51.200
and be a career-ender.

31:51.200 --> 31:53.230
And certainly if you're
the only one doing that,

31:53.230 --> 31:54.063
you should sort of feel like.

31:54.063 --> 31:56.860
If I'm gonna hold my airmen
accountable for something,

31:56.860 --> 31:59.090
and nobody else is doing
that, I'm gonna impact them.

31:59.090 --> 32:00.580
We've gotta get ourselves to a place

32:00.580 --> 32:03.000
where we're comfortable in
making sure the feedback happens

32:03.000 --> 32:04.600
and that we can capture those things.

32:04.600 --> 32:06.260
And then have a framework.

32:06.260 --> 32:07.810
And we think we've done this pretty well

32:07.810 --> 32:09.300
and the instruction we give to the board.

32:09.300 --> 32:11.544
To let the board look at
those things and decide.

32:11.544 --> 32:13.970
Is this indicative of a character flaw?

32:13.970 --> 32:15.170
Or is this a mistake?

32:15.170 --> 32:16.030
How long has happened

32:16.030 --> 32:18.360
since that person failed their PT test?

32:18.360 --> 32:20.100
Where do you go in that discussion?

32:20.100 --> 32:24.370
How do you make sure that all
the factors, time, recovery,

32:24.370 --> 32:26.420
what you've done since
then, are all considered?

32:26.420 --> 32:28.340
So that we can all comfortably make sure

32:28.340 --> 32:29.680
that we are capturing those things.

32:29.680 --> 32:33.050
And for those people who have,
truly have, character flaws,

32:33.050 --> 32:34.140
and we've given them the feedback,

32:34.140 --> 32:35.210
and they haven't fixed it.

32:35.210 --> 32:36.690
They're probably not
gonna progress as leaders

32:36.690 --> 32:38.260
in our United States Air Force.

32:38.260 --> 32:39.190
For those people who have,

32:39.190 --> 32:40.990
there should be a path for them
to continue and go forward,

32:40.990 --> 32:42.403
and that's what we're working on.

32:44.690 --> 32:45.523
- Sir, yeah.

32:45.523 --> 32:47.030
I know I threw out that
psychological testing

32:47.030 --> 32:48.563
in one of my articles, so.

32:50.320 --> 32:53.000
And I don't necessarily think that it's,

32:53.000 --> 32:54.110
that's a horrible idea.

32:54.110 --> 32:55.440
And it's from what I understanding,

32:55.440 --> 32:59.620
The Army Human Capital Innovation
folks have been looking at

32:59.620 --> 33:02.230
you know, at the idea a little bit.

33:02.230 --> 33:04.788
I think we can get to the
solution what we are looking for

33:04.788 --> 33:07.343
if we have other mechanisms in place.

33:09.240 --> 33:12.750
The 360 feedback information
going to the rater,

33:12.750 --> 33:13.583
the additional rater,

33:13.583 --> 33:15.422
and actually having that data available.

33:15.422 --> 33:17.920
The climate assessments, right?

33:17.920 --> 33:20.460
Not necessarily directly
on the performance report,

33:20.460 --> 33:23.190
but feeding back to the rater
and the additional rater.

33:23.190 --> 33:25.277
And that there's that data to help.

33:25.277 --> 33:27.760
To help the rater and additional rater

33:27.760 --> 33:30.610
make their evaluations at the individual

33:30.610 --> 33:32.770
provided in a proper context.

33:32.770 --> 33:35.919
But also, if they get it wrong over time,

33:35.919 --> 33:38.670
we can go back and look at what happened.

33:38.670 --> 33:41.400
And actually hold that rater accountable

33:41.400 --> 33:42.940
for getting it wrong.

33:42.940 --> 33:45.270
And if that happens wrong too often,

33:45.270 --> 33:48.430
then maybe we don't need them necessarily

33:48.430 --> 33:51.250
in a senior rater capacity,
if that makes sense.

33:51.250 --> 33:54.200
So I think the most
important element there,

33:54.200 --> 33:57.680
is that the voice of those being led

33:57.680 --> 34:00.037
has been captured and heard.

34:00.037 --> 34:02.540
However we can do that.

34:02.540 --> 34:05.390
Because we all know, we all,
we all experienced that.

34:05.390 --> 34:09.720
We have leaders that we would
follow to hell and back,

34:09.720 --> 34:11.670
no questions asked.

34:11.670 --> 34:14.850
And then we have those that
we intentionally avoid,

34:14.850 --> 34:16.230
and will leave the Air Force

34:16.230 --> 34:18.588
before we ever work for them again.

34:18.588 --> 34:21.410
How does that get captured?

34:21.410 --> 34:23.500
Because right now, it's not.

34:23.500 --> 34:26.550
And so I'm optimistic
about the new system,

34:26.550 --> 34:27.480
and those mechanisms,

34:27.480 --> 34:29.993
because those are the things
that we're trying to get after.

34:32.500 --> 34:37.500
- Okay, are we going to
change the OPR system?

34:37.570 --> 34:39.433
New forum, new computer program.

34:41.370 --> 34:43.720
- So hopefully the answer is yes.

34:43.720 --> 34:46.010
The discussion I had and
I described to you guys

34:46.010 --> 34:47.470
would lead to a new OPR forum.

34:47.470 --> 34:50.900
And hopefully an IT solution
that would lend itself

34:50.900 --> 34:53.330
to being a lot easier for us.

34:53.330 --> 34:55.520
When I talk about
simplicity and transparency

34:55.520 --> 34:56.920
is one of the tenants
that we have to get to

34:56.920 --> 34:58.350
at a Talent Management system.

34:58.350 --> 35:00.010
Certainly one of the things
that we have in mind is,

35:00.010 --> 35:02.152
how do we capture all the
things we need to capture?

35:02.152 --> 35:04.263
But make it easier for our Force.

35:04.263 --> 35:05.319
We're thinking about

35:05.319 --> 35:07.850
the sort of prototypes we've seen so far,

35:07.850 --> 35:09.610
sort of like a TurboTax forum

35:09.610 --> 35:11.050
where you pull down the pull down menu

35:11.050 --> 35:13.280
about leading people
and executing missions.

35:13.280 --> 35:14.580
And you're able to see those things

35:14.580 --> 35:15.860
and check where you need to.

35:15.860 --> 35:17.180
A lot less typing bullets

35:17.180 --> 35:18.620
and putting bullets in those discussions.

35:18.620 --> 35:19.650
A lot less discussion.

35:19.650 --> 35:21.770
No stratification, because
the system's gonna give you

35:21.770 --> 35:23.080
where you're going with that.

35:23.080 --> 35:26.760
But our vision is definitely
a new forum, online forum.

35:26.760 --> 35:28.210
That would, you print it
only when you need to,

35:28.210 --> 35:29.542
but all done online.

35:29.542 --> 35:32.332
That sort of captures
that and for it to be

35:32.332 --> 35:35.448
back boned and sort of
underpinned by a new IT product

35:35.448 --> 35:36.290
that would do it.

35:36.290 --> 35:38.677
So not in the realm of a VPC

35:38.677 --> 35:40.020
and the things that we currently have,

35:40.020 --> 35:42.455
which certainly I struggle
with and get mad at

35:42.455 --> 35:45.220
on a weekly basis when I'm
trying to navigate my way

35:45.220 --> 35:46.767
through OPRs and those kind of things.

35:46.767 --> 35:48.500
But a more modern system.

35:48.500 --> 35:49.720
And the way I think about it,

35:49.720 --> 35:52.200
and when I've seen what we've
looked at, and prototypes.

35:52.200 --> 35:53.850
It's more like a TurboTax kind of format.

35:53.850 --> 35:56.020
You can work your way
through the instructions

35:56.020 --> 35:58.220
and then having an end
product for yourself.

36:00.370 --> 36:01.720
- The only thing that I would add there,

36:01.720 --> 36:05.510
is that there is nothing
about our current system

36:05.510 --> 36:07.142
and the forums that we have
that prevents us from doing

36:07.142 --> 36:09.392
all the things that
we've been talking about.

36:10.580 --> 36:12.210
It's our climate and our culture,

36:12.210 --> 36:14.253
and how we've chosen to do these things.

36:16.180 --> 36:18.810
Those of you who didn't hear
Chief Wright's talk earlier

36:18.810 --> 36:22.070
about the difference between
the conversation in CORONA,

36:22.070 --> 36:23.310
before I get in trouble here.

36:23.310 --> 36:26.100
Or the conversation amongst the chiefs.

36:26.100 --> 36:26.933
I don't know about you,

36:26.933 --> 36:29.313
but I'd rather be in the
conversation with the chiefs.

36:31.150 --> 36:35.230
I think speaking to the
matter of climate and culture,

36:35.230 --> 36:37.500
we have a climate and culture,

36:37.500 --> 36:39.470
especially amongst the officer core,

36:39.470 --> 36:42.923
that values curtesy over candor.

36:43.930 --> 36:46.240
And there's no reason why
we can't be, you know.

36:46.240 --> 36:48.340
Professional and have our disagreements.

36:48.340 --> 36:53.340
But when we get the, when we
place form above function,

36:53.740 --> 36:54.880
that's never gonna end well.

36:54.880 --> 36:57.230
And it's not gonna result in
more ready and lethal force.

36:57.230 --> 37:02.116
So I'm in favor of anything
that leads us down that road.

37:02.116 --> 37:06.332
But just know that no matter
what new system comes out,

37:06.332 --> 37:07.840
how great it is, whatever.

37:07.840 --> 37:09.990
We still have the
potential to screw it up.

37:11.660 --> 37:15.100
So that's why I've written
a lot of what I've written,

37:15.100 --> 37:17.140
is that I'm hoping we will choose

37:17.140 --> 37:18.940
and we will put the mechanisms in place

37:18.940 --> 37:20.840
to make it easier for people
to do the right thing.

37:20.840 --> 37:22.780
And we reward the right things.

37:22.780 --> 37:24.374
But make no mistake.

37:24.374 --> 37:25.760
The first thing people will do

37:25.760 --> 37:27.530
when whatever new system comes out,

37:27.530 --> 37:30.190
is they'll try and figure
out a way to game it.

37:30.190 --> 37:31.314
And it's just human nature, so.

37:31.314 --> 37:33.331
That's the role of leaders.

37:33.331 --> 37:35.346
To hold the line, do what's right,

37:35.346 --> 37:38.923
even when you're incentivized differently.

37:39.900 --> 37:40.760
- Great.

37:40.760 --> 37:42.950
Stratifications come up in
a number of these questions.

37:42.950 --> 37:45.212
Does stratification need an overall,

37:45.212 --> 37:49.400
the current systems
seem vulnerable to bias,

37:49.400 --> 37:52.060
and likely to create hay ball effects.

37:52.060 --> 37:53.853
What can we do to help?

37:54.710 --> 37:55.543
- Yeah, so.

37:55.543 --> 37:57.473
I hope from our discussions already,

37:58.758 --> 38:00.760
and I know. I think I speak
for Jason on this one, right?

38:00.760 --> 38:01.593
The answer is yes.

38:01.593 --> 38:03.141
The stratification
system needs an overall.

38:03.141 --> 38:05.690
We started down on that path a little bit

38:05.690 --> 38:07.890
with the potential focus
PRF and the guidance

38:07.890 --> 38:08.723
that was put out there,

38:08.723 --> 38:11.715
but I think to illustrate
some of those points.

38:11.715 --> 38:13.690
If you sit on a promotion board

38:13.690 --> 38:15.240
or you sit on any kind of place

38:15.240 --> 38:16.190
where you're valuing records,

38:16.190 --> 38:18.320
you'll find out that our
airmen are innovative.

38:18.320 --> 38:19.480
And our airmen are creative, right?

38:19.480 --> 38:22.100
So they can find lots of
ways to give stratification

38:22.100 --> 38:24.670
that probably mean absolutely nothing.

38:24.670 --> 38:26.680
To my number one left handed
flight chief on Monday,

38:26.680 --> 38:27.513
Wednesdays and Fridays.

38:27.513 --> 38:29.820
But this person is my number
one left handed flight chief

38:29.820 --> 38:30.890
on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

38:30.890 --> 38:32.380
We've seen all that stuff.

38:32.380 --> 38:34.640
We know that that exists in the
system out there, all right.

38:34.640 --> 38:37.717
So the way we're describing
the new OPR system

38:37.717 --> 38:39.910
and the guidance that we put in place

38:39.910 --> 38:41.750
for the new potential focus PRFs

38:41.750 --> 38:43.450
starts to take us to a place

38:43.450 --> 38:45.540
where we can normalize that behavior.

38:45.540 --> 38:46.690
And we can get to a place

38:46.690 --> 38:49.720
where we truly can
differentiate among folks.

38:49.720 --> 38:53.160
And again, with a way for
us to normalize between

38:53.160 --> 38:55.860
a very hard grader and a very easy grader,

38:55.860 --> 38:58.220
so that an individual airman
doesn't get advantaged

38:58.220 --> 39:00.270
or disadvantaged in that discussion.

39:00.270 --> 39:01.684
So the answer is absolutely yes.

39:01.684 --> 39:04.794
And we're down that path to try
and get ourselves to a place

39:04.794 --> 39:07.880
where we can truly
communicate and differentiate

39:07.880 --> 39:09.020
between performance of our airmen.

39:09.020 --> 39:11.190
We have lots of great performing airmen,

39:11.190 --> 39:13.870
but not everybody is the
number one of 1000 people

39:13.870 --> 39:14.703
in the organization.

39:14.703 --> 39:16.760
And we need to know the
difference between those folks,

39:16.760 --> 39:18.220
so that we're making sure
we've picked the right people

39:18.220 --> 39:19.170
for the right jobs.

39:20.940 --> 39:22.053
- That's tough to top.

39:23.160 --> 39:26.983
The new system, if we do it
right, stratifications go away.

39:28.060 --> 39:29.630
I'll know that we're on the right path

39:29.630 --> 39:31.820
when those things go away.

39:31.820 --> 39:33.980
And I hear a lot of my
peers lament about it,

39:33.980 --> 39:35.070
because it's the one thing we have.

39:35.070 --> 39:36.607
And I'll tell you, sitting on a bunch of

39:36.607 --> 39:38.756
development teams and sitting in the,

39:38.756 --> 39:41.437
along with General Cotton and the whole

39:41.437 --> 39:45.010
competitive category,
developmental category discussion.

39:45.010 --> 39:49.060
When we're reviewing a
ridiculous number of records.

39:49.060 --> 39:50.800
You're going through those
things, and remember,

39:50.800 --> 39:52.090
this wasn't a statutory board.

39:52.090 --> 39:53.730
And statutory boards are different.

39:53.730 --> 39:56.203
About having to go through
every line of every report

39:56.203 --> 39:58.050
in detail.

39:58.050 --> 40:00.660
The eyes gravitate to the strats.

40:00.660 --> 40:03.423
And it only takes one, okay?

40:05.720 --> 40:08.700
It only takes one bad fit with a rater

40:08.700 --> 40:11.240
who didn't like you or
didn't, have a different style

40:11.240 --> 40:14.320
to completely change
the path and trajectory

40:14.320 --> 40:15.690
of someone's career.

40:15.690 --> 40:16.900
Just one.

40:16.900 --> 40:20.804
And it's a subjective assessment
really driven by one person

40:20.804 --> 40:22.240
if you think about it.

40:22.240 --> 40:26.260
So if it's squadron commander
providing a stratification,

40:26.260 --> 40:27.920
the group commander, chances are,

40:27.920 --> 40:29.380
not gonna give a number one to somebody

40:29.380 --> 40:33.220
who the squadron commander
gave a number two to.

40:33.220 --> 40:34.450
And that's assuming that group commander

40:34.450 --> 40:39.060
has ever met that person who
got a stratification, right?

40:39.060 --> 40:39.946
Or on of.

40:39.946 --> 40:42.440
The other thing that I've seen, right?

40:42.440 --> 40:44.170
And it gets kind of ridiculous sometimes.

40:44.170 --> 40:49.170
Is you'll see a great young
captain, number three of 10

40:49.430 --> 40:51.220
in their shop, doing their job.

40:51.220 --> 40:52.670
Three of 10 isn't bad.

40:52.670 --> 40:54.450
Shoot, when you're young
and learning your job

40:54.450 --> 40:55.460
especially when you first show up,

40:55.460 --> 40:57.700
three of 10 is fine.

40:57.700 --> 40:59.903
Then they go to be a general officer exec,

41:00.840 --> 41:03.010
and suddenly they're getting
ridiculous stratifications

41:03.010 --> 41:05.560
like number one of 300, 400.

41:05.560 --> 41:08.900
I even saw one general
officer gave a stratification,

41:08.900 --> 41:10.513
number one of 1500.

41:12.030 --> 41:13.600
To which I want to say, really sir?

41:13.600 --> 41:15.600
You met all 1500?

41:15.600 --> 41:16.433
How is?

41:16.433 --> 41:18.130
All of us are looking at
that shaking our heads,

41:18.130 --> 41:20.970
wondering what are we
supposed to do with this.

41:20.970 --> 41:22.908
Then that person gets
on a super fast path.

41:22.908 --> 41:24.144
School, school, school.

41:24.144 --> 41:26.520
With the assumption, and
I've heard this before,

41:26.520 --> 41:27.490
well, the person went to school,

41:27.490 --> 41:30.190
so we know they're
gonna be a great leader.

41:30.190 --> 41:33.790
And so it builds momentum, so.

41:33.790 --> 41:35.450
I think we need to get
rid of stratifications,

41:35.450 --> 41:36.850
I don't think we can do it right now,

41:36.850 --> 41:39.990
because we don't have anything
else to substitute in there.

41:39.990 --> 41:41.610
I'm looking forward to some more rules

41:41.610 --> 41:43.837
until we get that new system online.

41:43.837 --> 41:46.423
And so I really look forward to that day.

41:47.430 --> 41:49.810
- Okay, unfortunately this
will be the last question.

41:49.810 --> 41:52.600
I'm sure General Kelly and
Colonel Lamb will stick around.

41:52.600 --> 41:54.440
Thanks very much to Mike,

41:54.440 --> 41:56.680
for helping me with my limited IT skills.

41:56.680 --> 41:59.870
So last question, why do Air Force pilots

41:59.870 --> 42:02.240
hold more strategic leadership positions

42:02.240 --> 42:05.622
than other AFSCs, despite
all signs pointing to

42:05.622 --> 42:07.870
next generation conflict

42:07.870 --> 42:10.540
being in the space and cyber domains.

42:10.540 --> 42:12.260
- And they're asking to non flyers?

42:12.260 --> 42:13.093
Okay, fantastic.

42:13.093 --> 42:15.013
(laughs)

42:17.030 --> 42:17.863
You know.

42:19.249 --> 42:22.130
(laughs)

42:22.130 --> 42:24.233
Last time I checked, it's the Air Force.

42:26.031 --> 42:29.803
But I don't necessarily
have a problem with that.

42:31.130 --> 42:33.690
In my own career field, right, intel.

42:33.690 --> 42:35.380
Intel is one of those career fields

42:35.380 --> 42:38.250
that has had folks with the
universal management badge

42:38.250 --> 42:39.493
in charge of it before.

42:40.650 --> 42:41.483
And I'll tell you,

42:41.483 --> 42:44.750
some of those folks were
better leaders for ISR

42:44.750 --> 42:47.650
than some of the people who
were traditional intel airmen.

42:49.840 --> 42:51.940
I'll probably get stabbed after this, but.

42:52.830 --> 42:54.850
In my opinion it's true.

42:54.850 --> 42:57.430
Leadership is leadership.

42:57.430 --> 42:59.990
I'm not concerned over it.

42:59.990 --> 43:02.678
What concerns me is that
it's kind of the assumption

43:02.678 --> 43:05.193
that it's always going to be a pilot.

43:06.910 --> 43:08.820
I would prefer if it was
a little more open ended

43:08.820 --> 43:10.560
about what is it we're trying to do here

43:10.560 --> 43:12.230
and who's the right leader.

43:12.230 --> 43:13.317
I think we're totally capable of that.

43:13.317 --> 43:16.083
And I think we're on a path towards that.

43:16.083 --> 43:19.870
But at level I'm really not judging.

43:19.870 --> 43:20.703
You know, I think.

43:20.703 --> 43:22.180
I think it's kind of silly
when we still talk about

43:22.180 --> 43:24.600
the number of flying hours
a general officer has.

43:24.600 --> 43:27.003
That's not really what
we're looking for anymore,

43:28.090 --> 43:29.270
my own personal opinion.

43:29.270 --> 43:31.760
But sir, I'm out of time.

43:31.760 --> 43:32.593
Over to you.

43:32.593 --> 43:33.800
- Thanks, Jason.

43:33.800 --> 43:36.710
So I think what we're looking for, right?

43:36.710 --> 43:37.680
If you asked me,

43:37.680 --> 43:39.450
do I wanna pick somebody
who's a better leader

43:39.450 --> 43:42.010
or a better technician,
I want the better leader.

43:42.010 --> 43:43.420
But the transformation
that we're trying to make

43:43.420 --> 43:44.640
in the Talent Management system

43:44.640 --> 43:46.410
is we look to the NDS

43:46.410 --> 43:47.550
and we look to what we need in the future.

43:47.550 --> 43:48.670
We need both, right?

43:48.670 --> 43:50.083
We're gonna need places
where we develop both.

43:50.083 --> 43:53.030
We don't need to have those
be mutually exclusive.

43:53.030 --> 43:55.930
You can develop great
leaders and great technicians

43:55.930 --> 43:56.800
at the same time.

43:56.800 --> 43:59.050
Certainly when you get to
the general officer level,

43:59.050 --> 44:01.020
the breath and depth that
the chief talked about

44:01.020 --> 44:03.100
during his panel, becomes
even more important, right?

44:03.100 --> 44:05.000
And we have to make sure the
people we're putting there

44:05.000 --> 44:06.910
are developed in the
right ways, experienced,

44:06.910 --> 44:08.330
and exposed to the right things.

44:08.330 --> 44:10.350
And today's warfare, and
where we're at for join,

44:10.350 --> 44:12.020
that has tended to be, and rightly so,

44:12.020 --> 44:14.530
has tended to be our rated
folks who are in those positions

44:14.530 --> 44:16.050
because of the operational focus

44:16.050 --> 44:18.230
and the exposure and development
we've been able to do.

44:18.230 --> 44:20.120
That may not always be
the case as we go forward.

44:20.120 --> 44:21.490
But what we wanna be able to do is,

44:21.490 --> 44:22.520
we wanna be able to built both.

44:22.520 --> 44:24.610
We don't want just great
leaders or great technicians,

44:24.610 --> 44:27.780
we want people who have both
skillsets that can go forward.

44:27.780 --> 44:28.613
This is a wrap up.

44:28.613 --> 44:29.446
I just want to.

44:29.446 --> 44:30.660
I wanna thank you guys for coming out.

44:30.660 --> 44:32.150
Again, we'll stick around for a little bit

44:32.150 --> 44:32.983
and answer questions.

44:32.983 --> 44:34.320
And certainly any questions that came in,

44:34.320 --> 44:35.870
we'll put back out in the side.

44:35.870 --> 44:37.539
I just want to emphasize for everybody

44:37.539 --> 44:40.460
that this is a really important
time for us as a Force.

44:40.460 --> 44:42.020
You heard the chief talk about that.

44:42.020 --> 44:44.240
As we look forward to the
National Defense Strategy,

44:44.240 --> 44:46.040
we've gotta get this Talent
Management piece right.

44:46.040 --> 44:48.050
Because if we don't
have the airmen we need,

44:48.050 --> 44:49.150
and they're not developed the right way,

44:49.150 --> 44:50.730
it doesn't matter what
we do in Force structure,

44:50.730 --> 44:53.520
it doesn't matter what we
do in our Force design,

44:53.520 --> 44:55.070
all those things that we talk about.

44:55.070 --> 44:56.250
We gotta get this piece right.

44:56.250 --> 44:58.240
And so, this is why we've
been very collaborative,

44:58.240 --> 44:59.660
and this is why we've been very open

44:59.660 --> 45:01.340
to making sure we hear all the good ideas

45:01.340 --> 45:02.810
as we go forward.

45:02.810 --> 45:03.790
We're gonna make some changes.

45:03.790 --> 45:05.808
And one thing I would just
foot stamp you guys is

45:05.808 --> 45:09.400
if you ask me, "Hey BK,
what are you 100% sure of?"

45:09.400 --> 45:12.170
I would say, "I'm 100% sure
we don't have it 100% right."

45:12.170 --> 45:13.020
Okay.

45:13.020 --> 45:14.740
There's no way for us
to have it 100% right.

45:14.740 --> 45:16.140
So but, we're airmen, right?

45:16.140 --> 45:17.900
We know how to be agile, we
know how to be innovative.

45:17.900 --> 45:18.820
As we go forward,

45:18.820 --> 45:21.480
we can't wait around
to get it 100% perfect.

45:21.480 --> 45:22.650
So we're gonna have to move forward,

45:22.650 --> 45:24.060
we're gonna have to learn lessons,

45:24.060 --> 45:25.500
and make adjustments as we go,

45:25.500 --> 45:27.150
and evolve into making sure

45:27.150 --> 45:29.160
that we have the Talent
Management system we need,

45:29.160 --> 45:30.650
and I look forward to doing
that with all of you guys.

45:30.650 --> 45:31.786
Thanks.

45:31.786 --> 45:34.036
(applause)

45:36.054 --> 45:38.320
I get the last word
right before you leave.

45:38.320 --> 45:39.510
First and foremost,

45:39.510 --> 45:43.450
on behalf of your Air Force
Association leadership,

45:43.450 --> 45:46.210
Chairman Peters, thank you for being here.

45:46.210 --> 45:49.940
And it's an honor, I can't
even hardly put into words,

45:49.940 --> 45:50.910
to look at all of you.

45:50.910 --> 45:52.660
I do know this.

45:52.660 --> 45:54.770
I do know this for sure.

45:54.770 --> 45:58.770
I'm looking at the most lethal
combat force in the world.

45:58.770 --> 45:59.850
Every one of you.

45:59.850 --> 46:02.340
You are, and you lead that Force.

46:02.340 --> 46:06.170
And you are also the
most credible deterrent

46:06.170 --> 46:09.527
capability for peace in this world.

46:09.527 --> 46:10.790
God bless you.

46:10.790 --> 46:12.750
May God continue to bless America,

46:12.750 --> 46:14.300
and it's an honor to be on your wing.

46:14.300 --> 46:15.767
Have a great week.

46:15.767 --> 46:18.089
(applause)

46:18.089 --> 46:21.839
(uplifting orchestral music)