WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:02.250 - If it's Friday-- - If it's Friday, 00:02.250 --> 00:06.390 today with us we have Special Representative Elliott Abrams, 00:06.390 --> 00:08.930 our special representative for Venezuela. 00:08.930 --> 00:10.390 He has a few remarks for the top 00:10.390 --> 00:12.494 and he'd be happy to take your questions. 00:12.494 --> 00:13.453 - Thank you, sir. 00:14.738 --> 00:17.600 (clears throat) 00:17.600 --> 00:21.270 Thanks, I want to start by mentioning 00:21.270 --> 00:25.890 the announcement that Interim President Guaido made today 00:25.890 --> 00:29.080 about an agreement between 00:29.080 --> 00:31.810 the International Federation of Red Cross 00:31.810 --> 00:36.810 and the Catholic Bishops Episcopal Conference in Venezuela 00:37.136 --> 00:41.160 to try to get humanitarian aid into the country. 00:41.160 --> 00:43.940 The initial announcement said this would be 00:43.940 --> 00:46.600 health-related aid that would 00:47.488 --> 00:52.488 be provided to 650,000 Venezuelans. 00:53.920 --> 00:58.620 As you know, Guaido has been calling for this 00:58.620 --> 01:00.390 for weeks and weeks, 01:00.390 --> 01:03.960 and we in the United States made an effort to get aid in, 01:03.960 --> 01:06.570 most of it at Cucuta, Colombia, 01:06.570 --> 01:08.973 and the regime prevented it. 01:10.750 --> 01:13.670 The Red Cross has said 01:13.670 --> 01:17.070 that it will permit no interference 01:17.070 --> 01:19.400 with the distribution of the aid, 01:19.400 --> 01:20.570 which we think is great 01:20.570 --> 01:25.570 because our problem with the Venezuelan regime 01:26.700 --> 01:29.980 in this area has been that it does not distribute aid 01:29.980 --> 01:31.931 on the basis of need. 01:31.931 --> 01:34.330 Rather, it politicizes the aid 01:34.330 --> 01:38.370 and gives it only to people 01:38.370 --> 01:39.777 who have a thing called (speaks in foreign language), 01:40.930 --> 01:44.649 which is to say they're supporters of the regime. 01:44.649 --> 01:47.190 So we thought that that was not 01:48.290 --> 01:50.200 the way the Venezuelan people were going to benefit. 01:50.200 --> 01:53.640 This looks like a real opportunity, 01:53.640 --> 01:57.801 and we think it is a response 01:57.801 --> 02:01.280 to the efforts that Interim President Guaido 02:01.280 --> 02:02.730 has been making. 02:02.730 --> 02:04.590 So it's very welcome. 02:04.590 --> 02:06.540 We hope it works. 02:06.540 --> 02:09.770 And assuming that it does, which we do, 02:09.770 --> 02:11.160 the United States would be happy 02:11.160 --> 02:16.160 to get some of our aid into this 02:16.520 --> 02:18.490 method of reaching the Venezuelan people, 02:18.490 --> 02:21.260 because that's the purpose of what we were doing 02:21.260 --> 02:25.080 in getting the aid nearer to Venezuela. 02:25.080 --> 02:26.930 I think the international community 02:26.930 --> 02:31.930 is more generally ready and anxious to do more 02:32.480 --> 02:36.980 to help the humanitarian situation in Venezuela. 02:36.980 --> 02:40.810 You may have seen some news reports 02:40.810 --> 02:43.453 about a new UN report 02:45.690 --> 02:49.703 on the internal humanitarian situation, which said, 02:52.310 --> 02:54.957 quote, "Preventable diseases such as tuberculosis, 02:54.957 --> 02:57.957 "diphtheria, measles, and malaria have resurfaced 02:57.957 --> 03:00.587 "in the country and are on the rise, 03:00.587 --> 03:02.767 "as is Hepatitis A due to the lack of access 03:02.767 --> 03:04.650 "to safe drinking water." 03:04.650 --> 03:08.530 Now, obviously the humanitarian aid 03:08.530 --> 03:09.930 that addresses the health situation 03:09.930 --> 03:12.900 isn't going to solve that question of clean water. 03:12.900 --> 03:15.840 That is partly related to the blackouts. 03:15.840 --> 03:18.150 And I should just mention, as you know, 03:18.150 --> 03:21.094 the blackouts have continued all over the country. 03:21.094 --> 03:23.940 The regime's efforts to, in a sense, 03:23.940 --> 03:27.660 to keep them out of Caracas have not been successful. 03:27.660 --> 03:29.913 They have had partial blackouts there too. 03:31.600 --> 03:35.260 The electrical power system is simply in very bad shape 03:35.260 --> 03:39.608 because of the years and years of lack of maintenance, 03:39.608 --> 03:41.940 lack of investment. 03:41.940 --> 03:46.940 And the likelihood is that blackouts will continue. 03:48.895 --> 03:50.390 This aid is not 03:51.835 --> 03:56.003 going to solve the problems that Venezuelans face. 03:56.910 --> 04:01.630 The kind of aid that is needed for a broad recovery 04:01.630 --> 04:04.170 of the Venezuelan economy 04:05.470 --> 04:06.980 really cannot be put in place 04:06.980 --> 04:11.980 until the regime is replaced by a democratic government, 04:12.090 --> 04:14.220 when I think you'll see 04:14.220 --> 04:16.210 the international financial institutions 04:16.210 --> 04:20.919 and other donors really move in 04:20.919 --> 04:23.823 to try to help the people of Venezuela. 04:24.840 --> 04:28.023 I guess I would mention one other thing as a start. 04:29.150 --> 04:32.260 I've been asked in the last day or so 04:32.260 --> 04:37.260 about the ruling by the regime that Juan Guaido 04:39.110 --> 04:43.833 cannot participate in Venezuelan politics for 15 years. 04:45.190 --> 04:49.177 That's consistent with the regime's efforts 04:49.177 --> 04:54.080 to eliminate all democratic voices 04:54.080 --> 04:58.693 and all opposition forces and voices in Venezuela. 04:59.840 --> 05:04.316 I don't imagine that Juan Guaido is deeply worried 05:04.316 --> 05:07.931 because the Maduro regime, 05:07.931 --> 05:10.230 while it might be around in 15 days, 05:10.230 --> 05:12.460 is not going to be around in 15 years. 05:12.460 --> 05:13.923 So it's ludicrous, 05:15.712 --> 05:18.220 a ludicrous effort on the part of the regime 05:18.220 --> 05:22.450 to keep Mr. Guaido quiet. 05:22.450 --> 05:24.293 Okay, questions. 05:25.600 --> 05:28.420 - Shaun, right here. - Thanks for doing this. 05:28.420 --> 05:31.460 There have been reports in recent days about oil refineries 05:31.460 --> 05:36.120 and the U.S. stance on that, that the U.S. is telling, 05:36.120 --> 05:38.030 is encouraging oil companies 05:38.030 --> 05:41.580 not to be doing business with Venezuela. 05:41.580 --> 05:43.898 Could you just talk a little bit about the U.S. effort 05:43.898 --> 05:45.020 when it comes to oil 05:45.020 --> 05:46.190 and when it comes to international companies, 05:46.190 --> 05:47.116 and the message you're sending them 05:47.116 --> 05:48.970 whether sanctions could be enforced 05:48.970 --> 05:51.180 for international companies dealing with Venezuela? 05:51.180 --> 05:52.810 - Well, we have our sanctions. 05:52.810 --> 05:55.380 And one of the main purposes 05:55.380 --> 05:58.995 is to deny the regime money 05:58.995 --> 06:02.460 that it does not use for the Venezuelan people. 06:02.460 --> 06:04.510 Some of it ends up in foreign banks 06:04.510 --> 06:08.913 and much of it is used simply to keep the regime in power. 06:10.400 --> 06:14.440 So the first thing we did was we stopped paying them. 06:14.440 --> 06:17.090 The largest source of cash had been the United States 06:17.970 --> 06:20.540 buying about a half million barrels a day. 06:20.540 --> 06:25.020 We have had conversations with foreign oil traders, 06:25.020 --> 06:28.590 with foreign governments, really along the same lines, 06:28.590 --> 06:32.700 that is, you should be supporting Interim President Guaido, 06:32.700 --> 06:34.880 you should not be supporting this regime, 06:34.880 --> 06:38.980 you should not be buying oil from this regime 06:38.980 --> 06:41.700 and giving them cash. 06:41.700 --> 06:44.170 And we've noted that we have 06:47.778 --> 06:51.100 a wide, broad net with our sanctions, 06:51.100 --> 06:52.750 and so we've warned people, 06:52.750 --> 06:57.390 be careful not to get caught in that net 06:57.390 --> 07:00.420 by activities that you may think 07:00.420 --> 07:03.640 don't come into it but actually are caught by it. 07:03.640 --> 07:07.940 So we, and I think we've had a fair amount of success, 07:07.940 --> 07:12.450 I would say, in getting companies 07:12.450 --> 07:16.160 to reduce the amount they're buying, 07:16.160 --> 07:21.160 and in some cases, end the purchase of oil from the regime. 07:22.410 --> 07:24.430 There were some grace periods 07:24.430 --> 07:28.090 when we introduced the sanctions, 07:28.090 --> 07:30.920 which, most of which are coming to an end. 07:30.920 --> 07:32.610 But it is correct that we have 07:32.610 --> 07:34.750 attempted to prevent the regime 07:34.750 --> 07:36.850 from I would say stealing the assets 07:36.850 --> 07:38.010 of the Venezuelan people 07:38.010 --> 07:39.430 and making off with them 07:39.430 --> 07:41.793 by getting cash in exchange for oil and gold. 07:43.717 --> 07:45.134 - Matt. - Thanks. 07:46.400 --> 07:47.798 One, two brief ones. 07:47.798 --> 07:51.670 How is the search for a protecting power going? 07:51.670 --> 07:53.531 - We're very happy with the way it's going 07:53.531 --> 07:55.910 and I wish I had an announcement. 07:55.910 --> 07:57.540 I don't, but-- - Soon? 07:57.540 --> 07:59.320 - Diplomatic efforts, soon. 07:59.320 --> 08:00.750 The diplomatic, it's Friday. 08:00.750 --> 08:04.530 But the diplomatic efforts are going well. 08:04.530 --> 08:06.540 - Okay, and then secondly I wondered if you could 08:06.540 --> 08:08.700 extrapolate a little bit from 08:08.700 --> 08:13.040 what National Security Advisor Monroe 08:13.040 --> 08:14.453 had to say this morning: 08:16.777 --> 08:19.317 "We strongly caution actors external 08:19.317 --> 08:22.237 "to the Western Hemisphere against deploying military assets 08:22.237 --> 08:24.087 "to Venezuela or elsewhere in the hemisphere 08:24.087 --> 08:25.197 "with the intent of establishing 08:25.197 --> 08:27.580 "or expanding military operations." 08:27.580 --> 08:29.320 Clearly this is a reference to Russia, 08:29.320 --> 08:32.570 but does this mean that you're okay 08:32.570 --> 08:35.810 with Western Hemisphere countries 08:37.220 --> 08:38.790 getting involved militarily, 08:38.790 --> 08:43.683 whether it's the Cubans or the Nicaraguans or yourself? 08:45.090 --> 08:47.460 - We have made it clear what we think 08:47.460 --> 08:51.920 of the Cuban involvement in Venezuela. 08:51.920 --> 08:53.860 - Well, then why wasn't he more specific here? 08:53.860 --> 08:56.310 Why doesn't he say, we caution anyone 08:56.310 --> 08:59.476 who doesn't agree with us against deploying 08:59.476 --> 09:01.300 military assets to Venezuela? - Well, this was our guess. 09:01.300 --> 09:03.850 Chronologically, it's a reaction to what happened 09:03.850 --> 09:07.100 a few days ago with the arrival 09:07.100 --> 09:08.270 of the two Russian planes 09:08.270 --> 09:11.460 and a certain number of Russian military people 09:11.460 --> 09:12.420 on the ground. 09:12.420 --> 09:16.800 We've been very clear in our condemnation 09:16.800 --> 09:18.865 of the role the Cubans are playing. 09:18.865 --> 09:23.480 That was not the subject of this particular week. 09:23.480 --> 09:24.940 - And just as it relates to Russia, 09:24.940 --> 09:28.330 Secretary Pompeo had a call with Foreign Minister Lavrov, 09:28.330 --> 09:30.150 was it a day or two ago? 09:30.150 --> 09:32.410 - No, it was longer. - Two or three days ago? 09:32.410 --> 09:33.360 - I think it was last weekend. 09:33.360 --> 09:34.200 - Oh, was it last weekend? 09:34.200 --> 09:37.360 Okay, well, in it, according to the U.S. readout, 09:37.360 --> 09:40.130 the Secretary gave, delivered the same warnings, 09:40.130 --> 09:41.301 said the Russians should disengage. 09:41.301 --> 09:44.494 The Russians say that Foreign Minister Lavrov told, 09:44.494 --> 09:47.870 accused, in the call, accused the United States 09:47.870 --> 09:51.430 of trying to mount a coup in Venezuela. 09:51.430 --> 09:54.870 And it's probably not a surprise 09:54.870 --> 09:56.060 that you would disagree with that, 09:56.060 --> 09:57.883 but I'm wondering why is that not, 09:58.727 --> 10:00.520 why do you disagree with it? 10:00.520 --> 10:03.980 Why is the Russian argument flawed? 10:03.980 --> 10:08.980 - There is one democratic elected institution in Venezuela: 10:09.230 --> 10:11.743 the National Assembly, (clears throat) that's it. 10:12.793 --> 10:14.010 What the United States is doing 10:14.010 --> 10:16.180 is supporting the National Assembly 10:16.180 --> 10:18.340 and supporting the interim president, 10:18.340 --> 10:20.520 and calling for a free election, 10:20.520 --> 10:24.356 because what happened last May was not a free election. 10:24.356 --> 10:27.670 All the international observers agreed on that. 10:27.670 --> 10:31.220 So what we're calling for is a transition to democracy. 10:31.220 --> 10:32.143 That's not a coup. 10:34.380 --> 10:37.905 And I mean, to get instructions on democracy 10:37.905 --> 10:42.333 from the Russian foreign minister makes my day. 10:42.333 --> 10:45.027 - And you're still at 54? - Yes, sir. 10:45.027 --> 10:46.740 - Is it, so the number is static, 10:46.740 --> 10:48.120 and you haven't had any success 10:48.120 --> 10:51.080 in convincing anyone else to join your-- 10:51.080 --> 10:52.450 - That's right. - All right, okay. 10:52.450 --> 10:53.567 - I have a follow-up. - Let's go to Fox. 10:53.567 --> 10:54.490 - Okay, thanks very much. 10:54.490 --> 10:56.450 Also in the readout that, 10:56.450 --> 10:57.757 in that conversation with the foreign minister 10:57.757 --> 10:59.403 and the Secretary, the U.S. readout said 10:59.403 --> 11:03.160 that the United States will not stand idly by, 11:03.160 --> 11:04.950 referring specifically to the Russian 11:04.950 --> 11:06.922 deployment to Venezuela. 11:06.922 --> 11:11.780 What tools are available to the U.S. Government 11:11.780 --> 11:14.923 to ensure that the U.S. is not standing idly by? 11:17.550 --> 11:19.330 - Well we have a list of options 11:19.330 --> 11:20.880 that we've given the Secretary, 11:22.080 --> 11:26.650 and I would say that there are a lot of things we can do, 11:26.650 --> 11:28.040 certainly in the area of diplomacy, 11:28.040 --> 11:33.040 but there are things we can do in economic terms, 11:33.520 --> 11:34.903 in terms of sanctions. 11:36.750 --> 11:41.547 I guess I shouldn't get into this much, but-- 11:42.926 --> 11:44.158 - [Matt] No, you should. 11:44.158 --> 11:46.620 - (laughs) I'll get into it with the Secretary, 11:46.620 --> 11:48.070 but that's a different story. 11:49.010 --> 11:54.010 So I would just say that we have options 11:55.930 --> 11:58.330 and that I think it's, 11:58.330 --> 12:01.700 would be a mistake for the Russians to think 12:01.700 --> 12:03.290 they have a free hand here. 12:03.290 --> 12:04.123 They don't. 12:05.731 --> 12:08.450 - Let's go to CBS. - Thank you. 12:08.450 --> 12:10.460 So with these Russian troops, 12:10.460 --> 12:12.240 we think there's about a hundred on the ground, 12:12.240 --> 12:13.470 do you, can you give us any guidance 12:13.470 --> 12:15.033 what equipment they brought, 12:16.200 --> 12:17.200 what they're doing there, 12:17.200 --> 12:19.270 and if we have any indication that we think Russia 12:19.270 --> 12:22.830 is planning to send more in the coming days or weeks? 12:22.830 --> 12:25.400 - On the question of sending more, I don't know. 12:25.400 --> 12:27.070 On the question of what equipment there is, 12:27.070 --> 12:30.016 such information as we have is through intelligence, 12:30.016 --> 12:32.390 so I can't discuss it. 12:32.390 --> 12:33.810 As to what they're doing, 12:33.810 --> 12:37.350 one of the things they are doing seems to be, 12:37.350 --> 12:39.683 and we've thought this from the very beginning, 12:41.900 --> 12:44.920 helping the regime with 12:44.920 --> 12:49.800 the S-300 ground-to-air missile system, 12:49.800 --> 12:52.120 which apparently got all screwed up, 12:52.120 --> 12:54.673 sorry to use technical terms, by the blackout. 12:55.820 --> 12:57.020 So I don't know what you'd call it, 12:57.020 --> 12:59.560 recalibration or resetting or, 12:59.560 --> 13:01.363 in any event, technical assistance. 13:02.542 --> 13:06.363 What else they're doing, we're watching. 13:08.642 --> 13:09.600 - [Robert] Michelle. 13:09.600 --> 13:11.190 - [Michelle] So how much of a threat do you see 13:11.190 --> 13:13.560 the Russian presence at this point being 13:13.560 --> 13:15.313 to what the U.S.'s goals are? 13:19.860 --> 13:24.547 - There are not a gigantic number of Cubans, 13:26.480 --> 13:29.750 there are several thousand in the intelligence services, 13:29.750 --> 13:33.853 but their presence is extremely pernicious. 13:36.750 --> 13:37.780 The same thing is true, 13:37.780 --> 13:40.290 I would say, of the Russian presence. 13:40.290 --> 13:44.103 Obviously, this was about a hundred people. 13:45.210 --> 13:47.738 One thing we can say is that their presence 13:47.738 --> 13:50.690 will do absolutely nothing beneficial 13:50.690 --> 13:52.280 to the people of Venezuela. 13:52.280 --> 13:55.680 It does nothing to address any of the problems they face, 13:55.680 --> 13:58.023 political, social, or economic. 13:59.100 --> 14:02.010 It probably is a kind of shot in the arm 14:02.010 --> 14:06.380 for the regime even though the numbers are not huge, 14:06.380 --> 14:09.910 because we've seen that the numbers of Cubans, 14:09.910 --> 14:11.670 which are admittedly a lot larger 14:11.670 --> 14:13.070 than the number of Russians, 14:14.230 --> 14:17.720 have actually provided real assistance to the regime 14:17.720 --> 14:19.700 to do things it could not otherwise do 14:19.700 --> 14:22.530 or not do nearly as well. 14:22.530 --> 14:27.480 So it isn't a very large number so far, 14:27.480 --> 14:31.483 but it, the potential impact is considerable. 14:32.660 --> 14:34.545 - [Robert] Sir, I forget which outlet you work with. 14:34.545 --> 14:35.779 - NTN24. - Thank you. 14:35.779 --> 14:36.730 - Gustau Alegret. 14:36.730 --> 14:38.010 Could you give us some more details 14:38.010 --> 14:41.293 about the agreement with the International Red Cross 14:41.293 --> 14:44.440 in order to prevent that this humanitarian aid 14:44.440 --> 14:49.338 is not going to end up in the Maduro regime hands 14:49.338 --> 14:53.230 and they are going to politicize the help? 14:53.230 --> 14:56.390 - I can't, and the announcements that were made this morning 14:56.390 --> 14:58.250 are fairly brief, 14:58.250 --> 15:00.870 and I would have to say you've got to ask, 15:00.870 --> 15:05.870 as we will, Guaido, the Venezuelan Red Cross, 15:08.008 --> 15:12.330 and the bishops for more details about the distribution. 15:12.330 --> 15:14.560 Because obviously, we want it to be, 15:14.560 --> 15:16.590 we insist that it be, independent. 15:16.590 --> 15:19.220 But the Red Cross has been absolutely insistent 15:19.220 --> 15:21.930 that they would only do this 15:21.930 --> 15:24.390 if they had no interference from the regime. 15:24.390 --> 15:26.060 So we're interested in the details too, 15:26.060 --> 15:28.490 but it certainly sounds promising 15:28.490 --> 15:31.820 and it's the first such agreement that's been reached. 15:31.820 --> 15:35.140 - Is there any red line in this subject? 15:35.140 --> 15:38.090 I mean, if the U.S. see the Maduro regime 15:38.090 --> 15:39.280 politicizing the help? 15:39.280 --> 15:41.220 - Well, I would say we have the same red line 15:41.220 --> 15:43.490 that the Red Cross and the bishops do. 15:43.490 --> 15:47.163 Distribution has to be based on need, not politics. 15:48.140 --> 15:50.322 - [Robert] Tejinder, go ahead. 15:50.322 --> 15:52.360 - You said that your main purpose 15:52.360 --> 15:55.420 is to deny the regime money. 15:55.420 --> 15:57.520 Now, what is going on 15:57.520 --> 16:02.520 and what is your take with the oil dealings with India, 16:02.690 --> 16:05.740 especially the, one of the biggest refineries, 16:05.740 --> 16:06.960 the Reliance refineries, 16:06.960 --> 16:09.530 which is supposed to be not only buying the oil 16:09.530 --> 16:13.080 but also supplying the, Indian and European oils? 16:13.080 --> 16:15.730 Like, we have reports that the ships 16:15.730 --> 16:18.493 are now at this moment being loaded in Venezuela. 16:19.750 --> 16:23.900 - I would say that we have had contacts 16:23.900 --> 16:26.490 with Indian companies and with the Government of India, 16:26.490 --> 16:28.410 and that we have found 16:28.410 --> 16:31.623 there to be a very considerable amount of cooperation, 16:32.713 --> 16:35.980 which we are very happy to see. 16:35.980 --> 16:37.442 I'm going to leave it at that. 16:37.442 --> 16:38.952 - [Robert] Washington Post. 16:38.952 --> 16:41.630 - I know that you and others in the administration 16:41.630 --> 16:44.890 have repeatedly said that all options are on the table, 16:44.890 --> 16:47.180 but I'm wondering, with the Russian presence there now, 16:47.180 --> 16:49.320 do you feel that the United States 16:49.320 --> 16:51.940 is any closer to seriously considering 16:51.940 --> 16:54.773 or even exercising a military option? 16:56.490 --> 16:57.980 - I'm going to leave it with the statement 16:57.980 --> 17:00.220 that the national security advisor made 17:00.220 --> 17:01.473 and not comment further. 17:03.540 --> 17:05.637 - Sure, right there. - Two questions, thanks. 17:05.637 --> 17:07.990 My name's Alex Hoff of Chinese news station. 17:07.990 --> 17:11.410 Ambassador, Maduro's oil minister was in Azerbaijan 17:11.410 --> 17:13.557 last week, where he announced that he is going to divert 17:13.557 --> 17:16.810 some of the oil that originally bound for the U.S. 17:16.810 --> 17:17.800 to Russia. 17:17.800 --> 17:19.140 Is this something that is bothering you? 17:19.140 --> 17:20.380 And my second question: 17:20.380 --> 17:22.920 I was actually surprised by seeing Maduro's oil minister 17:22.920 --> 17:26.620 in Azerbaijan, which, where he attended OPEC event. 17:26.620 --> 17:28.536 If we recognize Guaido's government, first, 17:28.536 --> 17:32.180 are we, what hopes do we have or what we are doing to a, 17:32.180 --> 17:36.490 prevent Maduro's cronies from traveling abroad, 17:36.490 --> 17:38.720 particularly when it's about international events, 17:38.720 --> 17:41.010 and second, maybe we can secure some mandate 17:41.010 --> 17:43.840 or some voice for Guaido's regime as well. 17:43.840 --> 17:48.840 - Well, it's not surprising 17:48.990 --> 17:52.905 that there is an increase in oil trade 17:52.905 --> 17:56.240 between Venezuela and Russia, 17:56.240 --> 17:58.410 because the first thing really that the regime did 17:58.410 --> 18:02.030 after the imposition of American sanctions on PDVSA 18:02.030 --> 18:06.080 was to turn to the Russians and say, rescue us. 18:06.080 --> 18:11.080 And we know that oil shipments from Venezuela to Russia 18:12.250 --> 18:13.220 will be on the increase 18:13.220 --> 18:16.910 and we know that shipments of refined products, 18:19.720 --> 18:24.720 the diluents, gasoline, will also be on the increase. 18:24.850 --> 18:27.460 That's predictable given the relationship 18:27.460 --> 18:29.900 between the regime and Russia. 18:29.900 --> 18:32.850 In the international organization area, 18:32.850 --> 18:36.560 you know we continue diplomatic efforts 18:37.930 --> 18:41.260 to persuade people and organizations 18:41.260 --> 18:44.590 to give the credentials of Venezuela 18:44.590 --> 18:48.080 to the representatives of Interim President Guaido. 18:48.080 --> 18:50.110 In some cases we have already succeeded, 18:50.110 --> 18:51.960 like the Inter-American Development Bank, 18:51.960 --> 18:53.590 in others, we're working on it, 18:53.590 --> 18:58.230 and we have a good-sized campaign 18:58.230 --> 19:02.680 to persuade governments first to recognize Juan Guaido, 19:02.680 --> 19:06.150 second, to then carry through with the implications 19:06.150 --> 19:11.069 of that recognition when it comes to diplomatic missions 19:11.069 --> 19:14.420 in their own capital 19:14.420 --> 19:15.940 and when it comes to the way they vote 19:15.940 --> 19:18.130 in international organizations. 19:18.130 --> 19:20.190 That will be developing. 19:20.190 --> 19:21.190 That's something we're doing. 19:21.190 --> 19:24.957 We do it every week, and as meetings happen, 19:24.957 --> 19:27.640 you will see, I think, 19:27.640 --> 19:29.030 that we will have more successes 19:29.030 --> 19:31.340 of the sort we had in Chengdu. 19:31.340 --> 19:32.200 - [Alex] And the number of countries 19:32.200 --> 19:35.460 that recognize Guaido government, is it still 54? 19:35.460 --> 19:39.390 - Yes, yes. - Go ahead, Reuters. 19:39.390 --> 19:40.300 - Hello, Mr. Abrams. 19:40.300 --> 19:43.650 I wanted to pick up on my colleague from AFP 19:43.650 --> 19:45.357 who was talking about the way that the U.S. 19:45.357 --> 19:47.680 had reached out to trade, 19:47.680 --> 19:50.440 oil traders and companies and governments. 19:50.440 --> 19:52.550 Are you seeing, are you doing this because 19:52.550 --> 19:55.330 you're seeing additional leakage coming out of, 19:55.330 --> 19:59.210 are you seeing Maduro basically 20:00.450 --> 20:02.900 pushing more assets out of the country? 20:02.900 --> 20:04.727 What are you, what is behind this? 20:04.727 --> 20:06.690 - Yeah, well-- - Because it's not, 20:06.690 --> 20:08.293 it doesn't pertain to the sanctions. 20:08.293 --> 20:09.265 I mean, you're doing this in addition. 20:09.265 --> 20:10.098 - No, it's all, right. 20:10.098 --> 20:12.930 I mean, it's all very, I would say it's very logical. 20:12.930 --> 20:14.030 We impose our sanctions. 20:14.030 --> 20:15.790 What does the regime do? 20:15.790 --> 20:17.600 The regime tries to figure out other ways 20:17.600 --> 20:18.433 to get around them. 20:18.433 --> 20:20.666 It tries to find new customers. 20:20.666 --> 20:25.666 It tries to find new sources of imports. 20:25.860 --> 20:26.910 So what do we do? 20:26.910 --> 20:31.570 We watch carefully, and we can see ships moving 20:31.570 --> 20:35.610 and we can see new contracts with new companies, 20:35.610 --> 20:38.540 and when we do, we talk to shippers 20:38.540 --> 20:40.730 or we talk to refiners 20:40.730 --> 20:41.860 or we talk to governments 20:41.860 --> 20:43.610 and we say you should not be doing that. 20:43.610 --> 20:45.205 That's what we're doing. 20:45.205 --> 20:46.038 - [Lesley] So who are you seeing it with? 20:46.038 --> 20:48.573 I mean, how about naming and shaming a few? 20:49.960 --> 20:51.313 - The first thing we do, 20:52.155 --> 20:54.470 it's not going to work maybe in the case of Russia, 20:54.470 --> 20:57.453 but the first thing we do is talk to people. 20:58.350 --> 21:00.020 That is, we don't, we don't go in 21:00.020 --> 21:01.830 and sanction them or threaten them. 21:01.830 --> 21:04.720 What we do is go in and say, look, here is the situation, 21:04.720 --> 21:05.823 here is our policy, 21:07.390 --> 21:10.190 and we would really appreciate your cooperation. 21:10.190 --> 21:13.300 And we do say, look, the sanctions net is wide 21:13.300 --> 21:16.560 and you don't want to get caught in it, 21:16.560 --> 21:20.810 and we would appreciate cooperation. 21:20.810 --> 21:23.930 And in a very large number of cases, we get it. 21:23.930 --> 21:25.386 - [Lesley] So are you, what I'm, 21:25.386 --> 21:27.000 I'm gathering what you're saying 21:27.000 --> 21:30.619 is that you are seeing more kind of leakage going on. 21:30.619 --> 21:31.792 Where-- - No, we're seeing efforts. 21:31.792 --> 21:33.306 We're seeing efforts and we're trying to shut them off. 21:33.306 --> 21:34.753 - Efforts, efforts going to getting assets out. 21:34.753 --> 21:36.816 - Yeah. - Right. 21:36.816 --> 21:40.560 And you're saying you're seeing ships and contracts, 21:40.560 --> 21:43.460 and so is that mainly to do with shipping out oil 21:43.460 --> 21:45.910 or is it, I mean, clearly not cash. 21:45.910 --> 21:49.590 - I mean, the regime is, again, it's pretty logical. 21:49.590 --> 21:51.700 The regime is trying to do 21:51.700 --> 21:55.560 what it can to get its hands on cash, 21:55.560 --> 21:58.393 refined products, other things it needs. 21:59.270 --> 22:02.820 And so it, one of the ways it does that 22:02.820 --> 22:05.813 is go to the Russians and say, how can you help us? 22:06.960 --> 22:11.683 But in other cases there is selling, there is reselling, 22:12.600 --> 22:14.440 there are oil traders involved in this, 22:14.440 --> 22:17.440 and we have pretty decent information about this 22:17.440 --> 22:20.280 so we try to follow up and say, don't do that. 22:20.280 --> 22:22.260 - So you focused on Russia and China, 22:22.260 --> 22:25.360 I mean Russia and Cuba. - I focused on, yeah. 22:25.360 --> 22:28.963 - But China has just offered additional help 22:28.963 --> 22:30.713 over the last 24 hours. 22:32.530 --> 22:33.570 What is its role? 22:33.570 --> 22:34.950 It seemed to have pulled back, 22:34.950 --> 22:39.950 now it seems to be kind of spiriting up to help again. 22:40.470 --> 22:43.650 - Yeah, I'm, I will be persuaded of that 22:43.650 --> 22:44.830 when we actually see it. 22:44.830 --> 22:48.556 That is, I think the, my impression has been 22:48.556 --> 22:53.556 that the Chinese concern is essentially to protect 22:53.870 --> 22:56.980 the pretty considerable loans and investments 22:56.980 --> 23:01.223 that China has in Venezuela for the future, 23:02.180 --> 23:07.180 and has not seen it as an area of geopolitical challenge 23:07.800 --> 23:08.820 to the United States, 23:08.820 --> 23:11.930 which appears to be the way the Russians see it. 23:11.930 --> 23:14.927 So we'll see what the Chinese do. 23:14.927 --> 23:15.760 - Okay. - All right, 23:15.760 --> 23:17.429 let's go to the last question, right there, please. 23:17.429 --> 23:20.290 - Mr. Abrams, Lara Nico from Caracol Colombia. 23:20.290 --> 23:22.153 It's been over two months 23:22.153 --> 23:27.110 since Guaido proclaimed himself the interim president. 23:27.110 --> 23:29.729 Recently, Germany did not accept 23:29.729 --> 23:32.600 who he designated as an ambassador. 23:32.600 --> 23:35.504 Do you fear that this subject 23:35.504 --> 23:37.982 of the democratic transition in Venezuela 23:37.982 --> 23:41.950 may be losing some momentum internationally? 23:41.950 --> 23:42.930 - I really don't. 23:42.930 --> 23:45.720 I mean, I don't know how one judges that scientifically, 23:45.720 --> 23:48.870 but how can one judge this? 23:48.870 --> 23:50.720 How many people are here today? 23:50.720 --> 23:52.820 There is one way to judge. 23:52.820 --> 23:56.760 Column inches, very old-fashioned, I know, for today, 23:56.760 --> 23:59.833 but let's say minutes of broadcasts, minutes on the air. 24:00.740 --> 24:01.800 - [Matt] Clicks. 24:01.800 --> 24:04.200 - Concerns, clicks, that's a good one. 24:04.200 --> 24:06.980 Concerns that we hear, how many foreign ambassadors 24:06.980 --> 24:09.330 want to come in and talk to us about Venezuela? 24:10.590 --> 24:12.620 I see no diminution of interest. 24:12.620 --> 24:14.540 I certainly see no diminution of interest 24:14.540 --> 24:17.290 in the administration, that is, 24:17.290 --> 24:19.000 the concern of the President, the Vice President, 24:19.000 --> 24:20.470 the national security advisor. 24:20.470 --> 24:23.030 Certainly, Secretary Pompeo spends a good deal of time 24:23.030 --> 24:25.750 on this, and did up on the Hill. 24:25.750 --> 24:29.400 I see no diminution of interest in the American Congress. 24:29.400 --> 24:33.380 So as I look around the country and around the world, 24:33.380 --> 24:34.630 I don't see it. 24:34.630 --> 24:38.540 I don't see any lessening of interest and concern. 24:38.540 --> 24:39.970 And one reason for that, I think, 24:39.970 --> 24:43.323 is the situation of Venezuela is dire. 24:44.340 --> 24:49.130 We have seen this worsen because of the blackouts. 24:49.130 --> 24:52.545 Every report, now we have a new UN report apparently, 24:52.545 --> 24:56.890 every report is filled with just horrible statistics 24:56.890 --> 24:59.010 about the suffering of Venezuelan people. 24:59.010 --> 25:00.960 So it would be wrong to turn away from this 25:00.960 --> 25:04.810 because the effort that we're making here 25:04.810 --> 25:06.760 really is on behalf of the Venezuelan people, 25:06.760 --> 25:09.759 who deserve better and who are struggling 25:09.759 --> 25:13.894 to return their country to prosperity and democracy. 25:13.894 --> 25:15.890 - [Matt] Can I just ask, you said there's no diminution-- 25:15.890 --> 25:17.044 - Wind it up, all done, all done. 25:17.044 --> 25:18.411 We're going to end there, Matt, thanks. 25:18.411 --> 25:19.640 - Can you, hold on a second. - All right, no, we're done. 25:19.640 --> 25:21.152 - [Matt] He just said there was no diminution. 25:21.152 --> 25:23.863 Well, there's only 54 countries, it hasn't increased.