WEBVTT 00:05.687 --> 00:08.104 (calm music) 00:22.350 --> 00:23.850 - I'm gonna share my intro with you 00:23.850 --> 00:25.590 and give a little background. 00:25.590 --> 00:27.690 And please know that I don't share it this way 00:27.690 --> 00:29.240 because there's any ego attached to it, 00:29.240 --> 00:31.310 I share it this way because one of the big purposes 00:31.310 --> 00:33.360 of my talk and being here with you 00:33.360 --> 00:36.200 is to do a little breakdown of stigma. 00:36.200 --> 00:38.580 I think we still have a major stigma attached 00:38.580 --> 00:41.680 to substance use disorder, the disease of addiction. 00:41.680 --> 00:46.190 And you know, if I can help shatter that at all, I want to. 00:46.190 --> 00:48.720 So again, my name is Jeff Hatch, 00:48.720 --> 00:50.650 I graduated from the University of Pennsylvania 00:50.650 --> 00:51.963 with a triple major. 00:52.830 --> 00:54.450 Was a first team all-American there, 00:54.450 --> 00:57.270 was a third round draft pick of the New York Giants. 00:57.270 --> 01:00.003 Have won the president's award for community service. 01:01.060 --> 01:02.980 Have acted in television and films 01:02.980 --> 01:04.423 and done stunt work in them. 01:08.540 --> 01:10.340 And I'm a drug addict and alcoholic. 01:12.780 --> 01:15.753 Now, my sobriety date is February 8th of 2006. 01:17.010 --> 01:19.080 So we're at, I think, you know, my girlfriend 01:19.080 --> 01:21.010 and I looked the other day, I've got my sobriety calendar, 01:21.010 --> 01:23.200 it's 12.6 something years at this point 01:23.200 --> 01:24.846 that I've been sober. 01:24.846 --> 01:26.240 (audience applauding) 01:26.240 --> 01:27.983 Thanks. 01:30.090 --> 01:32.910 But you know, that's not a testament to me, 01:32.910 --> 01:37.580 that's a testament to luck, god, 01:40.600 --> 01:45.453 and really, for me, seeing the value in recovery. 01:48.280 --> 01:50.710 Because for me, it's a diligent effort every day 01:50.710 --> 01:52.573 to stay sober and stay well. 01:53.550 --> 01:55.030 But the other side of that is that 01:55.030 --> 01:57.010 I now live a life of value and purpose 01:57.010 --> 01:59.420 that I could never have imagined otherwise. 01:59.420 --> 02:01.770 And I get evidence of that every day that feeds me 02:01.770 --> 02:04.340 to continue doing the work required to stay well. 02:04.340 --> 02:07.140 And that's this feedback loop we try to get people into. 02:08.090 --> 02:10.010 Today, I'm a chief business development officer 02:10.010 --> 02:15.010 for a 284 bed six location addiction treatment provider 02:15.410 --> 02:16.533 up in New Hampshire. 02:18.440 --> 02:20.690 And really, my life has been in 02:20.690 --> 02:24.523 and around treatment since I got sober. 02:25.380 --> 02:30.380 So I have seen the, I have seen a lot 02:32.260 --> 02:36.423 in these 12 years, both the devastation of the disease, 02:38.900 --> 02:40.870 I have seen thousands of people die, 02:40.870 --> 02:42.830 I have seen thousands of people continue to struggle, 02:42.830 --> 02:44.530 and I have also, on the other side of that, 02:44.530 --> 02:47.820 seen thousands of people get well and get better. 02:47.820 --> 02:52.000 And I have seen the pebble in the pond 02:52.000 --> 02:53.560 that that creates for their worlds, 02:53.560 --> 02:56.280 the waves that emanate out of those recovery stories 02:56.280 --> 02:59.463 and those people getting well are so powerful that, 03:00.520 --> 03:03.520 in spite of the death and frustration, 03:03.520 --> 03:06.950 those stories continually provide motivation 03:06.950 --> 03:10.673 to stay on the path, because when people get well from this, 03:13.240 --> 03:16.373 it's a beacon, it's a beacon for everybody. 03:19.110 --> 03:23.770 I don't have the education or the data to speak to you guys 03:25.600 --> 03:27.870 the way the other speakers will today. 03:27.870 --> 03:32.233 And I can say this, I'll be a little case study for you. 03:33.308 --> 03:35.470 And the value in that for you guys is all dependent 03:35.470 --> 03:37.060 on how transparent I'm willing to be with you 03:37.060 --> 03:39.770 about my story and my journey. 03:39.770 --> 03:42.360 And I will try to be as transparent as possible. 03:42.360 --> 03:43.670 I don't know any of you personally, 03:43.670 --> 03:45.630 a couple I've met recently. 03:45.630 --> 03:47.520 So please respect the fact that that is not always 03:47.520 --> 03:49.270 the easiest thing to do. 03:49.270 --> 03:52.070 But I do recognize the value in it for you all, 03:52.070 --> 03:55.030 and that will be what I'll try to do with you. 03:55.030 --> 03:59.960 So I am 6'7", and today, I am 285 pounds. 03:59.960 --> 04:04.210 I share that like I'm svelte and skinny right now at 285, 04:04.210 --> 04:06.050 because for me, I am. 04:06.050 --> 04:07.590 At one point, I was up to, when I was playing, 04:07.590 --> 04:08.703 I was like 340. 04:10.680 --> 04:13.110 And I share that because I grew up, I mean literally, 04:13.110 --> 04:15.380 from the time I was born, worrying adults in this room, 04:15.380 --> 04:16.730 my mother always shares the story that 04:16.730 --> 04:18.200 when I was being born, she asked the doctor 04:18.200 --> 04:19.107 if it was a boy or a girl, and he goes, 04:19.107 --> 04:21.054 "I don't know, he's still coming out." 04:21.054 --> 04:22.530 (audience laughing) 04:22.530 --> 04:25.480 So it's a part of my journey too, and a lot of times, 04:25.480 --> 04:27.720 I hear recovery stories and for, you know, 04:27.720 --> 04:30.550 whatever it is, I often hear people share that 04:30.550 --> 04:31.710 they never felt like they fit in, 04:31.710 --> 04:33.300 they felt that they were different from, 04:33.300 --> 04:34.980 that they couldn't be a part of. 04:34.980 --> 04:36.830 And I felt that way too internally, but for me, 04:36.830 --> 04:38.180 it was an external thing too, I mean, 04:38.180 --> 04:41.060 when I was in first grade, I was as tall as my teacher. 04:41.060 --> 04:44.090 And so for me growing up, what that looked like was that, 04:44.090 --> 04:46.300 like I was not a guy who was a bully 04:46.300 --> 04:48.610 or a tough guy coming up, I just, I wanted to fit in 04:48.610 --> 04:51.393 and be a part of, but I was an ogre, I was an oaf. 04:52.820 --> 04:55.052 Shrek, thank god, had not come out yet. 04:55.052 --> 04:57.170 (audience laughing) 04:57.170 --> 04:59.970 But I was ostracized, I really didn't fit in. 04:59.970 --> 05:03.273 And that infected me growing up. 05:05.070 --> 05:08.930 I will share now to be, again, in the effort 05:08.930 --> 05:11.700 to be transparent, that my father is alcoholic. 05:11.700 --> 05:13.193 His father was alcoholic. 05:14.120 --> 05:16.263 His father and mother were alcoholic. 05:18.078 --> 05:20.250 So I come from a lineage of this disease. 05:20.250 --> 05:24.333 And growing up, I didn't know what it was. 05:25.990 --> 05:29.410 But one of the lessons I learned very early in my household, 05:29.410 --> 05:30.650 it was loving, my parents have been together 05:30.650 --> 05:32.520 since they were 15 years old, so anything I say, 05:32.520 --> 05:35.020 please understand, I love them unconditionally, 05:35.020 --> 05:37.590 I honor the fact that they did the best they could for me 05:37.590 --> 05:40.530 every single day, there's no doubt in my mind about that. 05:40.530 --> 05:42.630 But I do believe behaviors are learned. 05:42.630 --> 05:44.150 And one of the behaviors I learned was that 05:44.150 --> 05:46.750 we didn't talk about things that weren't good. 05:46.750 --> 05:48.520 If it wasn't the best, we don't share it 05:48.520 --> 05:49.910 because we don't do that in our house, 05:49.910 --> 05:51.360 we don't wanna hear about it. 05:52.220 --> 05:55.630 So for me growing up, I internalized a lot of things. 05:55.630 --> 05:56.973 I kept a lot quiet. 05:58.280 --> 06:03.280 And you know, it just went that way for a while. 06:03.820 --> 06:05.193 I'll tell you too. 06:09.380 --> 06:11.250 I didn't want for anything growing up. 06:11.250 --> 06:13.333 I grew up in a middle class house. 06:14.470 --> 06:16.483 We had dinners around the kitchen table. 06:19.620 --> 06:23.850 I have an older sister, she is not an addict or alcoholic, 06:23.850 --> 06:27.210 she has wine in her fridge, it's been there for six months. 06:27.210 --> 06:29.113 And I go, what is your deal? 06:30.690 --> 06:32.900 She's 42 now, she has five children, 06:32.900 --> 06:34.400 her and her husband live down in Virginia, 06:34.400 --> 06:37.263 god bless her, 13 to six months. 06:38.300 --> 06:40.750 She home schools them, she's an incredible woman. 06:42.750 --> 06:45.293 And if you look back, growing up, 06:47.250 --> 06:49.950 I internalized my problems, but in terms of showing up, 06:49.950 --> 06:52.380 you know, if you look at it, I was 06:52.380 --> 06:54.100 the golden child in our household. 06:54.100 --> 06:55.820 My sister was the one, when she got her license, 06:55.820 --> 06:59.470 who burned a cigarette hole in the seat of the Bronco. 06:59.470 --> 07:02.370 You know, she was the one who was staying out past curfew. 07:03.820 --> 07:07.120 Yet as we mature and grow into adulthood and form into 07:07.120 --> 07:12.120 the human beings we are, boy, the roles reverse. 07:12.310 --> 07:13.653 Interesting, you know. 07:16.180 --> 07:21.180 So it was for me that I got to my fresh year at high school 07:21.850 --> 07:26.373 before I found the solution to my problem. 07:28.110 --> 07:32.340 And I wanna share this antidote now so I don't forget it, 07:32.340 --> 07:35.540 I was sharing it before I started. 07:35.540 --> 07:38.600 Talk about what is, you know, what does it look like, 07:38.600 --> 07:41.340 substance use disorder, in a person who suffers from it? 07:41.340 --> 07:43.680 I can tell you, I was about two years sober, 07:43.680 --> 07:45.200 I was in Louisiana at this point, 07:45.200 --> 07:46.650 we'll get to how I got there. 07:48.010 --> 07:50.530 And I had purchased a home and my parents shipped down 07:50.530 --> 07:53.243 a bunch of stuff I had stored here in Maryland. 07:54.480 --> 07:57.100 And one of those boxes I pulled out had a sketch pad in it 07:57.100 --> 07:58.733 from when I was 11 years old. 07:59.740 --> 08:02.190 And there were three drawings in that sketch pad. 08:03.670 --> 08:05.803 One was a man hanging from a cliff. 08:06.930 --> 08:09.560 One was a man behind a cage screaming. 08:09.560 --> 08:11.760 And the other was a half devil, half person. 08:13.410 --> 08:15.500 That's what substance use disorder looks like 08:15.500 --> 08:17.670 for the person who's suffering from it. 08:17.670 --> 08:18.503 And this was two years before 08:18.503 --> 08:20.263 I've ever even drank or drugged. 08:22.800 --> 08:25.503 So at 13 years old, I was a freshman in high school. 08:26.350 --> 08:27.710 Interestingly enough, at this point, 08:27.710 --> 08:29.970 sports started to matter to people. 08:29.970 --> 08:32.160 And I was always a good athlete, so I became 08:32.160 --> 08:34.380 a varsity athlete as a freshman. 08:34.380 --> 08:35.900 At this point, I was a basketball player, 08:35.900 --> 08:38.590 I hadn't touched the football field yet. 08:38.590 --> 08:42.520 And when I became a varsity athlete, I got invited 08:42.520 --> 08:45.320 to start hanging out with those guys, they were seniors. 08:46.860 --> 08:49.450 And as we all know, when you're a freshman, the seniors, 08:49.450 --> 08:52.460 the senior athletes, boy, that's like, it was like, 08:52.460 --> 08:56.090 you know, Michael Jordan and like this guy Dave Orso 08:56.090 --> 08:57.280 who played on the basketball team, it was like, 08:57.280 --> 08:59.380 where he was like right there, you know. 08:59.380 --> 09:02.190 So when they invited me to come out to hang out with them 09:02.190 --> 09:04.220 and socialize, like I'm in. 09:04.220 --> 09:05.683 And we go to a party. 09:06.650 --> 09:09.110 And there's alcohol at this party. 09:09.110 --> 09:11.083 And I start drinking this alcohol. 09:12.270 --> 09:13.730 And for the first time in my life, 09:13.730 --> 09:16.080 the voices started to get quiet inside my head. 09:17.730 --> 09:19.210 And I started to care a little bit less 09:19.210 --> 09:20.810 about what you thought about me. 09:21.930 --> 09:24.680 And I started to feel a little bit better about myself. 09:26.410 --> 09:27.653 And I went okay. 09:28.860 --> 09:31.383 Like I have been looking for this. 09:33.300 --> 09:35.010 So when I say I found the solution to my problem 09:35.010 --> 09:38.113 at 13 years old, that was the solution. 09:39.240 --> 09:40.760 And I want you to realize that the drugs 09:40.760 --> 09:42.560 and the alcohol were not my problem. 09:44.400 --> 09:48.000 It's an internal problem I was finding a cure for. 09:48.000 --> 09:50.250 And I found that cure with drugs and alcohol. 09:53.490 --> 09:56.490 So I drank alcoholically from the start, I mean, that night, 09:57.340 --> 09:59.853 I was vomiting from alcohol. 10:02.990 --> 10:06.763 And I set myself on a path from there, you know. 10:07.980 --> 10:10.660 A couple things happened around this time as well. 10:10.660 --> 10:13.283 Just before this time, my father, at 42, 10:14.700 --> 10:16.790 got injured on the job and had to get 10:16.790 --> 10:18.840 a spinal fusion and retire on disability. 10:20.060 --> 10:23.450 When he got that spinal fusion, he was prescribed fentanyl. 10:23.450 --> 10:25.610 When he was prescribed that fentanyl, he put on a bath robe, 10:25.610 --> 10:28.163 went in his study and never came out. 10:29.550 --> 10:31.950 And so I always said I'm not gonna be like that. 10:33.210 --> 10:35.370 Again, no love lost. 10:35.370 --> 10:37.910 I love that man unconditionally, but there were things 10:37.910 --> 10:39.760 that happened, you know. 10:39.760 --> 10:42.500 And again, in my effort to be transparent with you, 10:42.500 --> 10:46.030 I can't shield that stuff and change my story 10:46.030 --> 10:48.690 to make it any different than what it was. 10:48.690 --> 10:50.590 So I always said I won't be like that. 10:52.090 --> 10:55.577 And when I got into high school, I said, you know what, 10:55.577 --> 10:59.800 I'm gonna do like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna figure out a way 10:59.800 --> 11:04.800 to do good enough that I make mom and dad happy. 11:06.890 --> 11:09.250 Not just proud of me, but I want them to be happy 11:09.250 --> 11:11.293 and I have the power to do that. 11:13.130 --> 11:16.140 And I also realized very early on that oftentimes, 11:16.140 --> 11:19.700 the kids that were the problem children, it was because 11:19.700 --> 11:22.750 they showed up late or didn't get good grades. 11:22.750 --> 11:25.790 And I realized that if I were to, if I got good grades, 11:25.790 --> 11:28.870 if I performed athletically, if I was active 11:28.870 --> 11:31.090 in the community, like if I showed up for you 11:31.090 --> 11:33.360 the way you wanted me to, you wouldn't ask questions 11:33.360 --> 11:35.510 about what I was doing behind closed doors. 11:36.730 --> 11:38.210 You wouldn't poke me because I'm not the one 11:38.210 --> 11:39.830 who needs poking, the kid who shows up tardy 11:39.830 --> 11:41.530 is the one who needs poking. 11:41.530 --> 11:43.750 If I show up, you won't ask. 11:43.750 --> 11:45.700 And that worked for me until it didn't. 11:49.330 --> 11:51.593 By the time I was a junior in high school, 11:52.720 --> 11:56.460 I had transferred to what used to be a prep school 11:56.460 --> 11:59.370 for the naval academy down the street from the school 11:59.370 --> 12:02.240 I went to, I grew up in Severna Park, Maryland. 12:02.240 --> 12:03.073 So my freshman and sophomore year, 12:03.073 --> 12:05.653 I was at Severna Park High School if you wanna look back. 12:08.990 --> 12:10.650 My freshman and sophomore year, 12:10.650 --> 12:12.663 we won a total of four games. 12:13.800 --> 12:15.103 We were not good. 12:16.060 --> 12:18.420 When I dunked in a game in my sophomore year of high school, 12:18.420 --> 12:19.950 it was the first time anybody had dunked 12:19.950 --> 12:21.273 in 20 years in a game. 12:22.130 --> 12:24.280 It was as if we won the state championship, 12:25.430 --> 12:26.463 it's embarrassing. 12:28.770 --> 12:30.470 So when I got an opportunity to move down 12:30.470 --> 12:32.200 the street to a school that was fifth 12:32.200 --> 12:36.503 in the Baltimore-DC metro in basketball, I went. 12:37.840 --> 12:41.600 And fortuitously enough, I was shooting around in the gym 12:43.420 --> 12:46.483 and at this point, I was about 6'5", probably like 220. 12:47.610 --> 12:50.610 And this man with a handlebar mustache walks into that gym 12:50.610 --> 12:52.390 and he says, "Who are you, what's your name?" 12:52.390 --> 12:53.640 I said, "I'm Jeff Hatch." 12:53.640 --> 12:54.473 He said, "What are you doing here?" 12:54.473 --> 12:57.200 I said, "I just transferred in, I'm playing basketball." 12:57.200 --> 12:59.466 He said, "Have you ever played football?" 12:59.466 --> 13:01.240 I said, "I haven't." 13:01.240 --> 13:02.147 He said, "Would you? 13:02.147 --> 13:03.737 "We have 20 guys, you're bigger than everybody 13:03.737 --> 13:05.907 "at the school, we could really use you." 13:07.130 --> 13:09.270 And I said, "If you ask my mom 13:09.270 --> 13:11.310 and she says yes, I'll do it." 13:11.310 --> 13:13.030 Because that was the thing growing up. 13:13.030 --> 13:15.330 I never played because my mom wouldn't let me. 13:18.350 --> 13:19.900 It's the truth, it's the truth. 13:23.281 --> 13:28.200 He was a magician, he wooed her and I got okayed to play. 13:28.200 --> 13:29.370 And so my junior at high school, 13:29.370 --> 13:31.950 I walked onto a football field for the first time. 13:31.950 --> 13:34.440 And it was a monumental thing in my life, obviously, 13:34.440 --> 13:36.690 based on how my story goes from there, right. 13:38.350 --> 13:42.800 I always remember, I really took to football. 13:42.800 --> 13:43.633 And we all have things that 13:43.633 --> 13:45.910 we have natural abilities for, right. 13:45.910 --> 13:48.110 Human being are incredible people, we're incredible, 13:48.110 --> 13:50.030 you know, we have talents for things that we don't know 13:50.030 --> 13:51.897 until we get exposed to them a lot of times. 13:51.897 --> 13:53.723 And we all have our things. 13:55.880 --> 13:57.560 For me, one of my things happened to be 13:57.560 --> 13:59.160 running into people really hard. 14:00.530 --> 14:02.380 I was good at that. 14:02.380 --> 14:04.370 And part of the reason I was good at that was because, 14:04.370 --> 14:06.420 have you all seen the movie The Waterboy? 14:07.620 --> 14:08.980 So you know how Adam Sandler will like 14:08.980 --> 14:10.950 put the face of the guy who likes Gatorade 14:10.950 --> 14:13.100 on the guy across from him? 14:13.100 --> 14:14.540 So like every guy I lined up across 14:14.540 --> 14:16.410 was calling me an oaf and an ogre. 14:16.410 --> 14:18.310 And it was just this incredible opportunity 14:18.310 --> 14:22.870 to take out this teen angst and be celebrated for it. 14:22.870 --> 14:23.803 And I loved it. 14:27.070 --> 14:30.403 That same time, that junior year in high school, 14:31.890 --> 14:34.040 I had gone out with my buddies drinking 14:34.040 --> 14:38.310 and I came home on a Friday night, and for whatever reason, 14:38.310 --> 14:40.960 this was the night my parents decided to confront me. 14:42.660 --> 14:44.950 Now, I think up to this point, I believed that 14:44.950 --> 14:47.470 they didn't know what was going on. 14:47.470 --> 14:52.470 My father, who was a literal spy for NSA, my mother, 14:53.160 --> 14:55.993 who's a nurse, don't know what's going on, yeah, right. 14:57.150 --> 14:58.950 They knew exactly what was going on. 14:59.880 --> 15:02.167 They chose to confront me on this night and I said, 15:02.167 --> 15:07.167 "You're right, I won't do it again, I promise, please, 15:07.397 --> 15:10.467 "just let me go out with my friends tomorrow night." 15:10.467 --> 15:11.500 Because it's Saturday night and you can't miss 15:11.500 --> 15:13.970 a Saturday night with your buddies in high school. 15:13.970 --> 15:18.750 And they said okay, and so I went out that night 15:18.750 --> 15:23.623 and attempted to stay sober. 15:24.610 --> 15:27.030 But I was incapable of that, I could not, 15:27.030 --> 15:28.343 at this point, do that. 15:30.440 --> 15:33.810 So I smoked marijuana for the first time that night. 15:33.810 --> 15:35.810 And I remember going home, and it's like 15:35.810 --> 15:39.450 a photographic image of my father putting dishes 15:39.450 --> 15:42.250 in the dishwasher, walking over to say hello. 15:42.250 --> 15:44.437 Him turning to me, looking at my face and going, 15:44.437 --> 15:45.757 "What did you do tonight?" 15:46.640 --> 15:48.290 And I said, "I smoked marijuana." 15:51.010 --> 15:53.410 And he said, "Go sit down at the kitchen table." 15:54.710 --> 15:56.060 And I went and sat at the kitchen table, 15:56.060 --> 15:57.900 and my dad called the local police department, 15:57.900 --> 16:00.030 Anne Arundel County Police. 16:00.030 --> 16:03.490 And two officers came over to the house and I had 16:03.490 --> 16:05.830 a round table discussion on why I shouldn't smoke marijuana 16:05.830 --> 16:07.650 the first time I ever did it with my mom and dad 16:07.650 --> 16:09.183 and the local police. 16:10.410 --> 16:12.730 It's funny now, but I share that with you for 16:12.730 --> 16:16.480 a couple of reasons, number one, because my parents 16:16.480 --> 16:21.283 were doing everything they could to try to save their son. 16:22.400 --> 16:24.060 But you know, this stigma we attach to 16:24.060 --> 16:25.780 this substance use disorder, to this disease, 16:25.780 --> 16:28.783 is so powerful that people have no idea what to do. 16:29.790 --> 16:34.313 People are so uneducated, it's ridiculous. 16:35.480 --> 16:37.260 Let me reiterate the statement that was made 16:37.260 --> 16:38.820 at the beginning of this day by Dr. Spivak 16:38.820 --> 16:42.330 that 72,000 people died, and I love your term, 16:42.330 --> 16:44.410 drug poisonings this past year. 16:44.410 --> 16:46.540 Not overdoses anymore, but poisonings. 16:46.540 --> 16:49.320 72,000 people died last year from this thing, 16:49.320 --> 16:51.270 and people still don't know what to do. 16:52.320 --> 16:53.963 That's ridiculous. 16:54.990 --> 16:56.623 We have to change that. 16:57.650 --> 17:00.000 And this is the means by which we do so, right? 17:02.850 --> 17:05.580 So they were trying everything they knew to do 17:06.690 --> 17:08.780 to try to help their son. 17:08.780 --> 17:10.410 And the second reason I share that is because 17:10.410 --> 17:11.830 what was being attempted at that point 17:11.830 --> 17:15.583 was using fear as a motivating factor for me to change. 17:17.310 --> 17:18.540 And I must say this to you all, 17:18.540 --> 17:20.320 and I hope you'll hear me say this. 17:20.320 --> 17:22.830 If you are a person who suffers from substance use disorder, 17:22.830 --> 17:24.850 if you're a drug addict and alcoholic like me, 17:24.850 --> 17:26.963 fear will never motivate you to change. 17:28.410 --> 17:30.360 Because when I am sick, I need drugs and alcohol 17:30.360 --> 17:32.010 as much as I need air to breathe. 17:32.930 --> 17:35.180 And you can't scare me enough to make me stop breathing, 17:35.180 --> 17:37.380 well, potentially, you could. 17:37.380 --> 17:39.890 But you understand what I'm saying, right. 17:39.890 --> 17:41.913 That will never motivate changing us. 17:42.950 --> 17:44.473 It just doesn't work that way. 17:47.520 --> 17:49.520 By my senior year at high school, I had opportunities 17:49.520 --> 17:50.700 to go to a bunch of different schools 17:50.700 --> 17:53.143 to play basketball or football or both. 17:55.350 --> 17:56.773 I ended up going to Penn. 17:58.290 --> 18:00.610 You know, for whatever reason, when I went there, 18:00.610 --> 18:04.463 the coach was really blunt and forward and honest with me. 18:05.500 --> 18:07.450 And I really appreciated that. 18:07.450 --> 18:09.580 And it was only two hours from home, 18:09.580 --> 18:12.240 it was a chance to get a great education. 18:12.240 --> 18:13.210 And so I went to Penn. 18:13.210 --> 18:17.220 And when I got to Penn, I found the volume turned up 18:17.220 --> 18:18.540 in every way in my life. 18:18.540 --> 18:21.500 And I use that to kinda say that the pressure increased. 18:21.500 --> 18:24.450 Like socially, more pressure, academically, 18:24.450 --> 18:27.460 a lot more pressure, athletically, a lot more pressure. 18:27.460 --> 18:28.860 And what do you think I did? 18:31.060 --> 18:32.410 I drank and I drugged more. 18:33.900 --> 18:36.620 Because when I was 13 years old and I found that solution 18:36.620 --> 18:39.593 to my problem, what I also did was completely, 18:40.830 --> 18:44.563 I put a stop line on developing appropriate coping skills. 18:45.660 --> 18:48.763 Because any time anything went right or wrong for me, 18:49.990 --> 18:51.580 I would put something in my body to change 18:51.580 --> 18:54.090 the way I felt to find some semblance of homeostasis 18:54.090 --> 18:56.610 that I found when I was under the influence. 18:56.610 --> 18:58.853 So those coping skills shut off. 19:00.490 --> 19:02.930 So when problems arose, when pressure increased for me, 19:02.930 --> 19:04.870 I drank and I drugged, and by the end of my first semester 19:04.870 --> 19:07.170 at college, I was flunking out. 19:07.170 --> 19:08.340 It was the dean's decision whether 19:08.340 --> 19:09.870 I stayed in school or not. 19:09.870 --> 19:12.920 And when I look back at my story now, I wonder, my gosh, 19:12.920 --> 19:13.910 how different would it had been 19:13.910 --> 19:16.520 if I hadn't been able to continue at Penn. 19:16.520 --> 19:21.403 Like the thinness of that ice that I walked on for so long, 19:25.920 --> 19:27.773 then I didn't even know, you know. 19:29.610 --> 19:34.610 As college continued for me, I started utilizing 19:35.330 --> 19:38.453 different drugs, drinking more alcohol. 19:40.190 --> 19:44.523 But I started getting better grades, 19:45.440 --> 19:47.233 I was becoming a very good player, 19:49.100 --> 19:50.663 I was active in the community. 19:53.230 --> 19:54.930 And I got passes, I got free passes 19:54.930 --> 19:56.830 when anything would come up. 19:56.830 --> 19:57.663 Truth. 20:00.710 --> 20:03.110 My friends would protect me when things came up, 20:04.830 --> 20:09.500 'cause that's what you do for your boy. 20:09.500 --> 20:12.470 By my senior year of college, I was 20:12.470 --> 20:13.893 a first team all-American. 20:14.950 --> 20:19.950 And you know, I was a potential NFL draft pick. 20:23.590 --> 20:28.330 And for me at that point, I had started 20:30.280 --> 20:32.973 to get violent under the influence of alcohol. 20:34.130 --> 20:38.333 So I knew I had to change something at that point. 20:39.310 --> 20:42.870 Now at this point, I am still, I have my father's experience 20:42.870 --> 20:46.503 with opiates that like, I am not gonna touch those. 20:47.960 --> 20:52.960 So I started to not drink as much, you know, 20:54.505 --> 20:56.330 the answer to that for me at that point 20:56.330 --> 21:01.330 was obviously not to attempt to get sober or not drink, 21:02.300 --> 21:04.320 but just smoke a lot more marijuana 21:04.320 --> 21:08.240 so that I would be calmer under the influence. 21:08.240 --> 21:09.770 So what that looked like was by my senior year, 21:09.770 --> 21:12.410 I was selling, I had a pound of marijuana 21:12.410 --> 21:13.720 that I was selling out of my refrigerator 21:13.720 --> 21:15.870 so that I could smoke it for free. 21:15.870 --> 21:18.470 You know, and I remember a day of, you know, 21:18.470 --> 21:20.640 there's these little flashes of memories from that time. 21:20.640 --> 21:22.740 I remember I came home one day. 21:22.740 --> 21:26.470 And I grew up in Maryland before the Ravens were here. 21:26.470 --> 21:29.783 So hail to the Redskins, okay. 21:32.680 --> 21:34.980 I came home from practice one day and I pressed play 21:34.980 --> 21:36.560 on my answering machine, and there's a scout 21:36.560 --> 21:38.600 from the Redskins calling. 21:38.600 --> 21:39.960 To say Jeff, this is so and so from 21:39.960 --> 21:41.020 the Washington Redskins, we want you to know 21:41.020 --> 21:43.430 we watched your film, we really like you, 21:43.430 --> 21:44.670 we think we might potentially be looking 21:44.670 --> 21:47.350 to take you in the draft this April. 21:47.350 --> 21:49.930 Keep doing the work you're doing and onward. 21:49.930 --> 21:51.550 And there was a knock at my door 21:51.550 --> 21:55.113 and there was somebody there to buy marijuana from me. 21:56.690 --> 21:58.990 So here I am on the cusp of achieving this dream 21:58.990 --> 22:03.990 I've had since I was a child, and I'm doing that. 22:05.890 --> 22:07.503 And I think it's totally okay. 22:10.580 --> 22:12.630 And I'll share this with you again later. 22:13.990 --> 22:17.293 Understand that, for someone like me, 22:18.650 --> 22:23.190 prior to my exposure to a solution to my problem, 22:23.190 --> 22:25.190 my substance use disorder, my addiction, 22:26.140 --> 22:27.583 I am in survival mode. 22:28.880 --> 22:32.230 I am not doing what I'm doing because it's fun 22:32.230 --> 22:36.400 or because I want to, I'm doing it because I'm trying 22:36.400 --> 22:37.800 to get to the next day because tomorrow, 22:37.800 --> 22:39.560 I'm gonna get better. 22:39.560 --> 22:41.820 Because tomorrow, I'm gonna stop. 22:41.820 --> 22:43.920 Because tomorrow, it's gonna be different. 22:44.980 --> 22:45.813 Every day. 22:49.300 --> 22:51.290 Because I was an Ivy League guy and it was rare 22:51.290 --> 22:54.160 that they were potential draft picks, I ended up being on 22:54.160 --> 22:57.550 an ESPN documentary called Hey Rookie, Welcome to the NFL. 22:57.550 --> 23:00.300 I was on a documentary for CNNSI called Goal to Goal 23:00.300 --> 23:02.290 where they followed me in my path 23:02.290 --> 23:04.020 from Penn to getting drafted. 23:04.020 --> 23:06.580 So there's like documentary crews following me around. 23:06.580 --> 23:08.510 And boy, if you think about it at that point for me, 23:08.510 --> 23:12.063 didn't I just think I was something special, I really did. 23:13.060 --> 23:16.860 I don't know how my head didn't fall over, it was so big. 23:16.860 --> 23:18.570 And what it also did for me was give me 23:18.570 --> 23:20.880 complete justification and rationalization 23:20.880 --> 23:22.870 for what I was doing to get by. 23:22.870 --> 23:25.370 Because I thought, if I'm doing this well, 23:25.370 --> 23:26.703 this is totally okay. 23:29.450 --> 23:30.870 I ended up getting drafted by the Giants 23:30.870 --> 23:32.693 in the third round in 2002. 23:33.740 --> 23:38.740 And you know, it was, you know, a powerful moment 23:41.020 --> 23:42.990 in my life, before long, I moved up 23:44.710 --> 23:48.180 and I bought a town house there up by the stadium. 23:48.180 --> 23:50.163 I signed my million dollar contract. 23:52.210 --> 23:56.140 I bought my 10 karats worth of diamonds. 23:56.140 --> 23:59.813 I bought my Lincoln Navigator and put 24 inch rims on it. 24:02.490 --> 24:04.763 I graduated from Penn with a triple major. 24:05.610 --> 24:06.970 You know, I had won that president's award 24:06.970 --> 24:08.690 for community service. 24:08.690 --> 24:10.293 I was dating Miss Maryland. 24:11.810 --> 24:13.243 I grew up watching MTV. 24:14.250 --> 24:17.670 And I had this idea of the things that are gonna be, 24:17.670 --> 24:20.400 they're gonna make me happy, okay. 24:20.400 --> 24:24.110 These are the things that I need to do to achieve happiness. 24:24.110 --> 24:25.720 And remember, I told you guys very early on, 24:25.720 --> 24:28.310 I said, I'm gonna be successful enough 24:28.310 --> 24:30.610 that I make mom and dad proud, the other caveat of that 24:30.610 --> 24:31.880 was I'm gonna be successful enough 24:31.880 --> 24:34.620 that I change the way I feel about myself. 24:34.620 --> 24:37.300 I'm gonna get enough external stuff 24:37.300 --> 24:39.743 that it changes how I feel about myself. 24:42.010 --> 24:43.910 And so I remember there was a day where I looked 24:43.910 --> 24:46.383 at that list and saw these boxes I had checked. 24:48.490 --> 24:53.033 And I went, oh no. 24:54.281 --> 24:56.331 I realized I was still totally miserable. 24:57.640 --> 24:58.903 And I went, now what? 25:00.270 --> 25:01.103 Now what? 25:03.750 --> 25:06.010 Now, in hindsight, what I'll tell you 25:06.010 --> 25:08.980 looking back from the perspective of a 38, almost, 25:08.980 --> 25:11.243 Friday's my birthday, I'll be 39, woo. 25:13.760 --> 25:16.323 Don't tell my girlfriend, I'm just kidding, I'm kidding. 25:17.487 --> 25:19.570 (laughs) 25:20.510 --> 25:21.890 I was 22 at that point. 25:21.890 --> 25:25.400 I look back 17 years ago and I go, what was that about 25:25.400 --> 25:26.410 and why did I feel that way? 25:26.410 --> 25:27.960 The reason I felt that way and the reason 25:27.960 --> 25:29.080 those things didn't make me happy 25:29.080 --> 25:32.140 was because all of those things were around me. 25:32.140 --> 25:34.220 I was living a life based on self. 25:34.220 --> 25:35.550 I was living a life where I was trying 25:35.550 --> 25:37.873 to achieve for Jeff Hatch. 25:38.890 --> 25:41.740 And what I recognize 17 years later and the experiences 25:41.740 --> 25:44.833 I've had, most importantly, in the past 12, 25:46.640 --> 25:51.080 is that that never leads to happiness or joy, right. 25:51.080 --> 25:53.300 Like, I find happiness and joy today 25:53.300 --> 25:55.143 in being of value to others. 25:56.100 --> 25:58.530 Like my life matters because I serve others 25:58.530 --> 26:00.290 and I help improve their lives and I serve 26:00.290 --> 26:01.450 the community around me in a way 26:01.450 --> 26:04.790 that makes me then feel valuable about myself. 26:04.790 --> 26:09.550 It's that incredible, you know, paradox of that whole thing. 26:09.550 --> 26:11.643 Like I do for you which does for me. 26:13.350 --> 26:16.140 But I didn't know that then and I was a selfish, 26:16.140 --> 26:19.603 egotistical young man who thought he was special. 26:22.330 --> 26:24.040 Interestingly enough, shortly thereafter, 26:24.040 --> 26:29.020 I had my first spinal injury and I had to get surgery 26:29.020 --> 26:30.973 and I was put on injured reserve. 26:33.920 --> 26:35.393 And I got prescribed opiates. 26:37.960 --> 26:40.740 And now here I am in the NFL. 26:40.740 --> 26:43.090 And if taking these drugs is gonna get me back 26:43.090 --> 26:44.840 out on that field, I'm gonna do it. 26:46.330 --> 26:48.010 And I remember when I got put on IR, 26:48.010 --> 26:50.700 when you get injured in football, like if you get like 26:50.700 --> 26:53.270 a season ending injury or something like that, 26:53.270 --> 26:56.080 it's almost like the scarlet letter where like, 26:56.080 --> 26:58.670 don't get too close to the guys that are still healthy 26:58.670 --> 27:00.400 'cause you might infect them with the disease 27:00.400 --> 27:02.250 of your injury, you know what I mean? 27:03.150 --> 27:04.703 So I had a lot of alone time. 27:06.781 --> 27:08.370 And I remember looking at that bottle of those pills 27:08.370 --> 27:09.650 and it said take one or two every four 27:09.650 --> 27:11.283 to six hours as needed for pain. 27:12.620 --> 27:14.730 And realizing that would cure the physical pain I felt. 27:14.730 --> 27:15.960 But realizing if I took a few more, 27:15.960 --> 27:17.933 it would cure the emotional pain that I felt. 27:19.980 --> 27:22.933 And so I did that and it did that. 27:25.540 --> 27:27.990 And before long, you know, they say a slippery slope, 27:27.990 --> 27:30.180 for me, it was a cliff and I jumped off. 27:30.180 --> 27:32.370 I mean, within the week, I had found that the guy 27:32.370 --> 27:36.020 I had bought those diamonds from could get me hydrocodone. 27:36.020 --> 27:41.020 And it's not important to share my dosages with you guys, 27:45.310 --> 27:49.010 but just know that, you know, I was spending $3000 27:49.010 --> 27:53.180 a week on these things and killing myself quickly. 28:01.800 --> 28:03.880 I came back from that injury into my second year 28:03.880 --> 28:06.290 and I started games for the Giants. 28:06.290 --> 28:10.410 And by this point, I was what I would call dependent, right. 28:10.410 --> 28:12.770 And I was long ago addicted, but now for me 28:12.770 --> 28:14.840 to get out on that field to play, 28:14.840 --> 28:17.963 like I need some oxycodone before I'll run out there. 28:19.530 --> 28:22.003 And there are these moments along the way where, 28:22.840 --> 28:25.740 I remember going out, before I went out to practice one day, 28:25.740 --> 28:28.590 grabbing the pills and taking them, and one of my line mates 28:28.590 --> 28:31.167 seeing me and going, "What are you doing?" 28:33.067 --> 28:35.317 "Taking my meds before I go out to practice." 28:36.394 --> 28:37.794 "Doesn't it make you tired?" 28:38.747 --> 28:40.370 "No." 28:40.370 --> 28:42.640 Like, I feel tired now because I haven't taken them yet, 28:42.640 --> 28:44.290 I'm in withdrawals. 28:44.290 --> 28:46.060 Like this is gonna make me feel okay when I have to 28:46.060 --> 28:48.860 get out there and run around on a football field. 28:48.860 --> 28:50.713 And that's what it became for me. 28:52.270 --> 28:54.820 And you know, I realized at this point 28:54.820 --> 28:57.420 that I had a problem, okay. 28:57.420 --> 28:59.993 Like I knew I was addicted. 29:01.070 --> 29:05.300 But I was so scared of telling anybody 29:05.300 --> 29:08.720 that truth that I just held onto it 29:08.720 --> 29:11.720 for a lot longer than I should have. 29:11.720 --> 29:13.970 What I recognized in hindsight is if I had been willing 29:13.970 --> 29:17.560 to share that truth with somebody, if I had been willing 29:17.560 --> 29:20.720 to say I have a problem, the help was there. 29:20.720 --> 29:22.510 But I was too scared. 29:22.510 --> 29:24.620 I was too scared of exposing myself as a fraud, 29:24.620 --> 29:27.150 which is what I felt like every day. 29:27.150 --> 29:28.170 I mean, I gotta tell you, for me, 29:28.170 --> 29:30.690 it was pretty hard being a guy from Severna Park, Maryland, 29:30.690 --> 29:33.323 I'd go home to do autograph signings there. 29:34.224 --> 29:35.520 And these kids were coming up to take pictures 29:35.520 --> 29:39.632 with this NFL player, hometown hero guy. 29:39.632 --> 29:44.327 And in my mind, I'm going like, this kid has no idea 29:45.470 --> 29:48.743 what's really going on, no idea. 29:54.508 --> 29:59.373 Around that time, I decided I'd pull a geographic. 30:01.110 --> 30:02.930 We had a coaching change in New York, 30:02.930 --> 30:05.173 Jim Fassel got fired, Tom Coughlin came in. 30:07.240 --> 30:09.360 He wanted us to march out to practice, 30:09.360 --> 30:14.030 he did not serve the egotistical athlete very well. 30:14.030 --> 30:18.980 And that did not serve me, so I wanted to get out of there. 30:18.980 --> 30:21.460 And I thought if I went somewhere different, maybe I would, 30:21.460 --> 30:23.090 I pulled, you know, the geographically pull, 30:23.090 --> 30:25.270 like I'm gonna go to a new place, a new environment, 30:25.270 --> 30:27.230 it's all gonna be different. 30:27.230 --> 30:30.550 I'm gonna run away from myself, basically, right. 30:30.550 --> 30:32.100 So I ran down to Tampa, Florida, 30:32.100 --> 30:34.400 to play for Jon Gruden, the Buccaneers. 30:34.400 --> 30:39.400 And you know, in no time, I was exactly where I have been. 30:43.490 --> 30:46.410 And amidst that time, I wanna tell you also, 30:46.410 --> 30:48.880 there was a period of time in there where 30:51.080 --> 30:55.513 I tried to quit so many times. 30:57.550 --> 30:58.883 So many times. 31:02.230 --> 31:05.170 To the point I had grand mal seizures trying to quit. 31:05.170 --> 31:06.363 Detoxing, you know. 31:07.220 --> 31:11.120 Now, to tell you how deep seated the dishonesty is 31:11.120 --> 31:12.900 in someone like me when I'm suffering like that 31:12.900 --> 31:14.290 and I can't see a solution to it 31:14.290 --> 31:16.070 and I'm too scared to tell you, 31:16.070 --> 31:20.320 I went on Depakote, got diagnosed as epileptic 31:22.000 --> 31:23.720 because I was too scared to say no, 31:23.720 --> 31:26.050 those seizures aren't from epilepsy, 31:26.050 --> 31:27.823 those seizures are me detoxing. 31:32.860 --> 31:35.540 So I'm in Tampa, I'm back to what 31:35.540 --> 31:39.090 I've been doing forever very quickly. 31:39.090 --> 31:42.130 And you know, when I had my first back surgery 31:42.130 --> 31:43.417 in my rookie year, the doctor had said, 31:43.417 --> 31:45.807 "There's a lot of destabilization in your spine, 31:45.807 --> 31:48.360 "we really need to do a fusion, what do you think?" 31:48.360 --> 31:51.540 I thought, when he said fusion, no way. 31:51.540 --> 31:53.550 Like I am not gonna be my dad, 31:53.550 --> 31:55.910 you are not doing that to my back. 31:55.910 --> 31:57.680 My fourth year, I was in Tampa. 31:57.680 --> 31:59.410 Sure enough, I injure my spine again. 31:59.410 --> 32:01.110 It's a career-ending injury and 32:01.110 --> 32:04.093 I have to get a fusion at 26. 32:05.430 --> 32:10.083 And I go, that's it, I'm done. 32:11.750 --> 32:13.530 Because I'll tell you this, you know, 32:13.530 --> 32:15.900 as disrespectfully as I treated my NFL career 32:15.900 --> 32:17.880 based on my behavior as I was doing it, 32:17.880 --> 32:20.490 please know that like, it was everything I ever wanted. 32:20.490 --> 32:23.290 It was the only piece of value I thought I had as a man. 32:23.290 --> 32:28.290 And like I said before, I was doing what I had to do 32:28.470 --> 32:29.570 to survive to get to the next day 32:29.570 --> 32:30.630 because it was gonna be better, 32:30.630 --> 32:31.960 I was gonna get better the next day. 32:31.960 --> 32:33.500 You know, I was gonna be different the next day. 32:33.500 --> 32:36.240 So when that injury happens, that career is over, 32:36.240 --> 32:38.883 I have to get a spinal fusion, I am done. 32:40.370 --> 32:42.290 I get that fusion, by this point, 32:42.290 --> 32:45.320 I'm in the NFL substance abuse program for marijuana, 32:45.320 --> 32:48.910 which means they're testing me a couple of times a week. 32:48.910 --> 32:51.420 They're testing me for marijuana. 32:51.420 --> 32:54.330 I can take opiates, I can drink alcohol. 32:54.330 --> 32:57.283 And I find benzodiazepines, Xanax, 32:58.440 --> 33:00.450 that kinda replicated what marijuana had done for me, 33:00.450 --> 33:02.300 so I started taking a bunch of that. 33:02.300 --> 33:04.550 And I started trying to drug myself to death. 33:08.022 --> 33:10.387 And the world got completely dark. 33:13.030 --> 33:15.930 And if you wanna know what that really looks like 33:15.930 --> 33:17.093 for someone like me. 33:21.995 --> 33:24.870 What it looks like is you are, for me, 33:24.870 --> 33:28.730 I was in an apartment on a couch with my drugs, 33:32.060 --> 33:35.983 with my alcohol, with a phone that I wasn't answering, 33:38.020 --> 33:41.430 taking doses of those drugs that I thought 33:41.430 --> 33:44.363 would put me to sleep and allow me not to wake up. 33:45.500 --> 33:48.393 Waking up covered in urine and feces, 33:50.380 --> 33:51.963 upset that I had done so. 33:53.587 --> 33:56.113 And doing it again and hoping the result was different. 33:57.310 --> 33:59.820 And so I overdosed five times in that span. 33:59.820 --> 34:02.040 The fifth time, I was found. 34:02.040 --> 34:04.750 I was taken to Tampa General Hospital. 34:04.750 --> 34:08.200 And when that happened, my parents came down. 34:08.200 --> 34:10.240 This doctor I had been seeing for the NFL 34:10.240 --> 34:11.790 came to see me in the hospital. 34:12.760 --> 34:14.700 And for the first time, they said, "You've got a problem." 34:14.700 --> 34:17.900 You know, the veil got pulled back really quick. 34:17.900 --> 34:19.750 Now everybody knew what was going on. 34:20.993 --> 34:23.630 And they said, "Jeff, you need to get help." 34:23.630 --> 34:26.033 And of course, what did I say? 34:26.920 --> 34:30.320 Yeah, right, you guys are crazy. 34:30.320 --> 34:31.760 I just took too much, let me get out of here 34:31.760 --> 34:34.300 and go back to my life and do what I need to do 34:34.300 --> 34:36.720 and you guys keep living. 34:36.720 --> 34:38.290 So they let me sit there. 34:38.290 --> 34:40.860 The Superbowl came on while I was there. 34:40.860 --> 34:42.520 And I remember watching that game 34:42.520 --> 34:43.860 and thinking that four years prior, 34:43.860 --> 34:45.430 like one day, I'm gonna play in that game. 34:45.430 --> 34:46.570 And here I was four years later, 34:46.570 --> 34:48.500 that NFL career is over with, I just overdosed 34:48.500 --> 34:50.350 on drugs and alcohol and almost died. 34:51.430 --> 34:54.763 And like, whoa, what happened? 34:58.400 --> 35:00.600 And that was enough, that was enough that, 35:00.600 --> 35:04.017 when they came and said, "We want you to go to a resort 35:04.017 --> 35:08.057 "for two weeks to detox safely off these drugs 35:08.057 --> 35:10.540 "because we don't want you to have any more seizures," 35:10.540 --> 35:11.940 I was willing to get on a plane 35:11.940 --> 35:14.890 and go from Tampa to Louisiana. 35:14.890 --> 35:16.870 That doctor from the NFL had previously run 35:16.870 --> 35:19.722 the Louisiana Physicians' Health Program. 35:19.722 --> 35:20.970 If you're familiar, physicians' health programs 35:20.970 --> 35:25.970 are where practicing doctors that are impaired get referred 35:25.990 --> 35:29.890 so they can seek treatment for substance use disorder. 35:29.890 --> 35:31.440 She had run that program in Louisiana, 35:31.440 --> 35:33.310 knew this really hardcore program. 35:33.310 --> 35:35.010 Realized that she'd been seeing me once a week 35:35.010 --> 35:38.150 for a year and I had never gotten honest with her 35:38.150 --> 35:40.500 that I probably needed a pretty hardcore place. 35:41.380 --> 35:43.940 So she sent me on a plane to Louisiana. 35:43.940 --> 35:46.253 I landed in a place called Monroe, Louisiana. 35:47.380 --> 35:49.773 Who's ever seen the show Duck Dynasty? 35:49.773 --> 35:50.820 (audience laughing) 35:50.820 --> 35:54.560 That's where it is, not kidding, when I got off the plane, 35:54.560 --> 35:55.947 a guy walked up to me and said, 35:55.947 --> 35:58.040 "Great googly-moogly, look at the size of you," 35:58.040 --> 36:02.573 and I went oh my god, where am I? 36:03.960 --> 36:05.750 And the woman from the treatment center picked me up, 36:05.750 --> 36:08.470 she had a shirt on that said 90 days to freedom. 36:08.470 --> 36:10.537 And I went, "What's that about, 36:10.537 --> 36:13.040 "because I'm here for two weeks." 36:13.040 --> 36:15.830 And I'm not joking with you, we're friends 36:15.830 --> 36:19.940 on Facebook today, once a year, she sends me a message. 36:19.940 --> 36:22.046 Two weeks, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. 36:22.046 --> 36:25.046 (audience laughing) 36:27.150 --> 36:30.930 So I ended up going up to this place. 36:30.930 --> 36:33.690 It's called Palmetto down in Louisiana. 36:33.690 --> 36:36.620 And it's 10 miles outside of a one lane road town 36:36.620 --> 36:38.810 called Rayville, Louisiana. 36:38.810 --> 36:41.830 And I remember thinking that I'm gonna get there 36:41.830 --> 36:44.300 and it's gonna be like One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. 36:44.300 --> 36:46.760 That I'm gonna put like a medical gown on 36:46.760 --> 36:49.040 and like people are gonna be like drooling on themselves 36:49.040 --> 36:53.513 and no one's gonna understand me and all this BS. 36:54.360 --> 36:56.120 And you know what, I got there, and like 36:56.120 --> 36:57.810 the first conversation I had with somebody 36:57.810 --> 37:01.690 who was also a client, we were able to connect in a way 37:01.690 --> 37:05.950 that I had needed for so long and had not known. 37:05.950 --> 37:08.040 You know, very early, very quickly right there, 37:08.040 --> 37:10.740 like I realized I had found my tribe. 37:10.740 --> 37:12.400 I have found people with shared experience 37:12.400 --> 37:14.040 that felt the same way that I did. 37:14.040 --> 37:16.210 And for the first time in my life, I could talk openly 37:16.210 --> 37:18.700 and honestly about those things free from judgment. 37:18.700 --> 37:22.463 And it was incredibly profound for me. 37:24.537 --> 37:29.290 It was, I was lucky and I'm gonna tell you 37:29.290 --> 37:31.020 why I was lucky, I mean, there's a multitude 37:31.020 --> 37:32.740 of reasons why, you can tell already why. 37:32.740 --> 37:35.670 But one of the things that was very lucky for me 37:35.670 --> 37:37.920 was that I was coming from an NFL football career, 37:37.920 --> 37:40.330 that I had incredible insurance and I was able 37:40.330 --> 37:42.983 to stay in that treatment center as long as I needed to. 37:44.000 --> 37:47.010 Anybody in this room who has any influence over this, 37:47.010 --> 37:49.820 please, do anything you can to make sure that this thing 37:49.820 --> 37:52.170 gets treated the way it deserves to be treated. 37:53.200 --> 37:58.200 You know, people get put in detoxes for five days 37:58.410 --> 38:01.700 and they're expected to make a complete life change 38:01.700 --> 38:03.020 in that period of time. 38:03.020 --> 38:04.830 That's ridiculous. 38:04.830 --> 38:08.990 28 days is a ridiculous amount of time to expect someone 38:08.990 --> 38:11.260 to make the kind of change that needs to take place. 38:11.260 --> 38:14.050 And we do not have the supports around those systems, 38:14.050 --> 38:16.440 even if they do get something valuable in treatment, 38:16.440 --> 38:19.530 the supports around it are so lacking, I believe, 38:19.530 --> 38:22.413 due to lack of funding which attaches to stigma. 38:24.490 --> 38:28.520 That, you know, people fall every day 38:28.520 --> 38:30.500 in those holes, in those cracks. 38:30.500 --> 38:32.310 How many bodies are we gonna put in those cracks 38:32.310 --> 38:33.593 before they get sealed? 38:34.810 --> 38:38.080 For me, I went to that treatment center. 38:38.080 --> 38:42.410 It was the 42nd day before I was even able 38:42.410 --> 38:44.433 to realize what was going on. 38:45.480 --> 38:48.240 It was the 42nd day I was in that treatment center 38:48.240 --> 38:50.250 that I finally got struck with this moment 38:50.250 --> 38:52.993 where I went, holy cow, Jeff. 38:54.420 --> 38:57.853 Everything you think you are does not matter here, brother. 38:59.010 --> 39:00.620 And it's time to do something different 39:00.620 --> 39:04.050 and do what these people are telling you if you wanna live. 39:04.050 --> 39:06.500 And the reason I got to that place was because 39:06.500 --> 39:08.950 I had enough time away from drugs and alcohol that I started 39:08.950 --> 39:12.160 to see a little bit of light in the world again. 39:12.160 --> 39:14.370 Just a little bit at this point. 39:14.370 --> 39:17.650 Like maybe I heard a bird chirp for five seconds. 39:17.650 --> 39:19.790 Or saw the sun and went wow, that's beautiful. 39:19.790 --> 39:22.870 But there was enough of that that I wanted it. 39:22.870 --> 39:24.423 I wanted more of it. 39:26.450 --> 39:28.420 And so that 42nd day I was in that treatment center 39:28.420 --> 39:30.721 is when it really started to change for me. 39:30.721 --> 39:31.554 You know, when I set about trying 39:31.554 --> 39:33.350 to live my life differently. 39:33.350 --> 39:35.810 I set about doing the things they had told me 39:35.810 --> 39:36.760 I needed to do. 39:36.760 --> 39:39.760 What that was for me, I recognized in hindsight, 39:39.760 --> 39:41.290 was a recognition that I was powerless 39:41.290 --> 39:44.140 over drugs and alcohol and that my life was unmanageable. 39:46.150 --> 39:48.570 If you know what that means, you know if you don't, 39:48.570 --> 39:50.243 please learn about it. 39:52.680 --> 39:54.483 I spent 104 days there. 39:55.330 --> 39:57.130 And after that 104 days, they recommended 39:57.130 --> 39:59.320 I move into a sober house. 39:59.320 --> 40:02.000 I wanted to go back to my apartment in Tampa, 40:02.000 --> 40:03.570 but I was willing. 40:03.570 --> 40:05.280 I moved into a sober house with 12 dudes, 40:05.280 --> 40:06.560 I had to get a job. 40:06.560 --> 40:07.850 So I went to the little movie store 40:07.850 --> 40:10.420 in this one lane road town in Louisiana and got a job. 40:10.420 --> 40:11.930 So if you wanna track my career path, 40:11.930 --> 40:14.610 it was left tackle for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers 40:14.610 --> 40:16.770 to customer service associate at the movie gallery 40:16.770 --> 40:18.178 in Rayville, Louisiana. 40:18.178 --> 40:19.011 (audience laughing) 40:19.011 --> 40:21.390 And it was the best thing that happened to me. 40:21.390 --> 40:24.040 You know, I got humbled when I desperately needed to. 40:25.050 --> 40:26.670 I wanted to sell more discount movie cards 40:26.670 --> 40:28.540 than anybody who worked there. 40:28.540 --> 40:30.010 I was going through a process where 40:30.010 --> 40:32.220 I was righting the wrongs of my past. 40:32.220 --> 40:34.230 I was owning every piece of who I was 40:34.230 --> 40:36.140 and righting the wrongs of my past 40:36.140 --> 40:37.950 and rectifying my relationships 40:37.950 --> 40:39.870 and starting to feel a lot different about life 40:39.870 --> 40:41.350 and recognizing that there was potentially 40:41.350 --> 40:44.030 a future for me here, and that I actually loved people 40:44.030 --> 40:45.090 and I loved living. 40:45.090 --> 40:46.723 And that was profound too. 40:48.360 --> 40:49.580 That I didn't need drugs and alcohol 40:49.580 --> 40:51.600 to be okay in this world. 40:51.600 --> 40:53.150 Like there were steps I needed to take every day 40:53.150 --> 40:55.090 to be okay, and if I did those things, 40:55.090 --> 40:56.690 boy, this could be a lot of fun. 40:57.940 --> 40:58.773 Amazing. 41:00.970 --> 41:04.450 Before long, I went to work at that treatment center. 41:04.450 --> 41:07.660 See, I really do like people and like, within a month, 41:07.660 --> 41:09.170 everybody in that town knew who I was 41:09.170 --> 41:10.277 and would come to visit me in the movie store, 41:10.277 --> 41:11.840 and the people at the treatment center were like man, 41:11.840 --> 41:13.460 have you ever done marketing or business development 41:13.460 --> 41:14.930 or anything like that? 41:14.930 --> 41:17.760 And I was like no, not really. 41:17.760 --> 41:19.100 Do you wanna stay in Louisiana? 41:19.100 --> 41:20.490 No, not really. 41:20.490 --> 41:21.850 (audience laughing) 41:21.850 --> 41:24.620 But you know, I was willing to do whatever at that point, 41:24.620 --> 41:26.783 you know, I was firmly in the belief that, you know, 41:26.783 --> 41:28.493 god had put me where I was supposed to be 41:28.493 --> 41:30.460 and I was gonna do whatever that looked like. 41:30.460 --> 41:34.220 And so I went to work for them and shortly thereafter, 41:34.220 --> 41:35.440 got to start helping other athletes 41:35.440 --> 41:38.970 who had substance use disorder, who fought addiction issues. 41:38.970 --> 41:41.940 Got to sit with those guys and share a commonality. 41:41.940 --> 41:45.193 And boy, my life became valuable. 41:46.850 --> 41:49.743 You know, again, it was through service that that happened. 41:52.199 --> 41:54.670 And my path has been varied since then. 41:54.670 --> 41:56.360 I spent about five years there in Louisiana, 41:56.360 --> 41:58.950 and finally, I was like okay, I'm ready 41:58.950 --> 42:01.130 to get more education, I went out to LA 42:01.130 --> 42:04.320 and started to get my MBA and somehow managed to fall 42:04.320 --> 42:05.733 into acting and stunt work. 42:06.820 --> 42:08.770 And so I did that for about five years. 42:09.690 --> 42:11.043 Amazing experience. 42:14.000 --> 42:16.763 You wanna get excited, try like, 42:18.010 --> 42:20.620 there's a glass wall in front of you that you have 42:20.620 --> 42:24.370 to run through that will not break if you run into it, 42:24.370 --> 42:26.200 you will crack your head open and fall down. 42:26.200 --> 42:29.630 But there is a guy on the side who's got little charges 42:29.630 --> 42:30.980 set in the corners. 42:30.980 --> 42:33.440 And right when you run into that glass at full speed, 42:33.440 --> 42:34.893 he's gonna press that button. 42:36.338 --> 42:39.340 (audience laughing) 42:39.340 --> 42:42.133 That's trust, right, so I did that for a while. 42:43.820 --> 42:45.780 He did though, thank god. 42:45.780 --> 42:47.850 It's a really weird feeling, 'cause I could feel the glass 42:47.850 --> 42:51.540 like hold, like I felt like oh, I'm gonna fall, 42:51.540 --> 42:52.850 and then it broke right then and I went through, 42:52.850 --> 42:55.760 I was like oh, good, good, good, good, good, good. 42:55.760 --> 42:57.520 Or like taking 30 foot falls, getting beat up 42:57.520 --> 42:59.430 by Wonder Woman, all that stuff, it's a lot of fun, 42:59.430 --> 43:00.430 it was a lot of fun. 43:01.960 --> 43:05.173 But I had injured my knee some years back. 43:06.250 --> 43:08.180 And when I got a meniscus repair done 43:08.180 --> 43:09.900 while I was in Louisiana, I had gotten 43:09.900 --> 43:12.720 a staph infection inside that knee joint. 43:12.720 --> 43:14.620 So it really deteriorated, and I was out there 43:14.620 --> 43:17.130 doing this stunt work, and it started 43:17.130 --> 43:18.530 to get pretty bad, right. 43:18.530 --> 43:23.240 And I knew, I was scared to death to, 43:23.240 --> 43:25.653 I can't take an opiate, okay. 43:29.142 --> 43:30.616 But it got to the point where it was affecting 43:30.616 --> 43:33.840 my spiritual and emotional wellbeing. 43:33.840 --> 43:35.980 And kinda like, that's how I think our barometer 43:35.980 --> 43:38.030 should be on pain, right. 43:38.030 --> 43:39.280 Like, I don't know that we're all entitled 43:39.280 --> 43:41.130 to a pain-free existence. 43:41.130 --> 43:42.900 We're human beings, right. 43:42.900 --> 43:45.393 We get nicked up and banged up through this life. 43:47.240 --> 43:49.670 But if it starts to affect our emotional 43:49.670 --> 43:52.550 and our spiritual wellbeing, our capacity to think clearly, 43:52.550 --> 43:54.820 then I think that's the moment you go okay, let's hold 43:54.820 --> 43:56.580 the white flag up and get something done about this. 43:56.580 --> 43:59.170 And that's where it was for me, so I went to a doctor. 43:59.170 --> 44:00.140 They looked at my knee and said 44:00.140 --> 44:01.820 we have to do a total knee replacement. 44:01.820 --> 44:04.667 Your knee is completely bone on bone, it's done. 44:04.667 --> 44:05.933 And I went oh no. 44:08.013 --> 44:09.100 You know, I'm eight and a half years sober 44:09.100 --> 44:10.903 at that point, I'm going oh gosh. 44:13.040 --> 44:15.770 So to tell you what that looks like for a guy who, 44:15.770 --> 44:17.840 you know, diligently practices his recovery, 44:17.840 --> 44:20.860 makes that the center of my life. 44:20.860 --> 44:23.020 What that looked like for me was leaving that life 44:23.020 --> 44:25.110 in Los Angeles, going back to where I'm from in Maryland 44:25.110 --> 44:26.630 where I had a sober community I'd known 44:26.630 --> 44:28.720 since the day I got well. 44:28.720 --> 44:31.080 Going to my parents' house, getting a safe 44:33.000 --> 44:35.240 to put any meds I get after this knee replacement. 44:35.240 --> 44:36.970 I'm crazy, but I'm not crazy enough 44:36.970 --> 44:40.193 to get my femur hacked off and not be on an opioid, come on. 44:41.190 --> 44:43.240 So I just set up every system I could beforehand 44:43.240 --> 44:44.400 to make sure I was gonna be okay. 44:44.400 --> 44:45.900 When I went in there, I said look, 44:45.900 --> 44:49.630 I am a drug addict and alcoholic, my sobriety date is this. 44:49.630 --> 44:51.760 But please be conscientious of that 44:51.760 --> 44:55.180 as we come out of the surgery into it and, you know, 44:55.180 --> 44:57.333 make that important in this process. 44:58.330 --> 44:59.563 I got that surgery. 45:01.860 --> 45:03.960 And I wanna share this with you just so you recognize 45:03.960 --> 45:05.810 what it looks like for a guy like me. 45:06.690 --> 45:10.230 I think I thought before that that potentially, 45:10.230 --> 45:12.080 I had this thing licked a little bit. 45:13.470 --> 45:16.560 And it was the second day after that surgery 45:16.560 --> 45:19.670 that I found myself wanting to click that button 45:19.670 --> 45:20.663 more than I should. 45:22.150 --> 45:26.250 That I found myself that, what I call is a monster, 45:26.250 --> 45:28.300 that monster's starting to wake up in me. 45:29.680 --> 45:31.230 And sure enough, in spite of everything, 45:31.230 --> 45:34.293 I went home with a bottle of 60 80 milligram oxycodone. 45:36.120 --> 45:38.593 And we put those in that safe. 45:40.110 --> 45:45.110 And the third day, all I could think about 45:45.720 --> 45:48.333 was how do I get the combination to that safe? 45:49.900 --> 45:52.940 How, how? 45:52.940 --> 45:54.173 What is it, dad? 45:55.670 --> 45:57.780 And I just want you to know, that's 45:57.780 --> 45:58.930 what it's like for me, right. 45:58.930 --> 46:01.364 Like I get a daily reprieve based on the means 46:01.364 --> 46:02.900 of my spiritual condition. 46:02.900 --> 46:06.373 But like, my disease never leaves me ever. 46:08.000 --> 46:09.630 And so that third day, I took those pills 46:09.630 --> 46:11.480 and I flushed them, and I went through 46:11.480 --> 46:13.900 that recovery from knee replacement surgery 46:13.900 --> 46:16.153 using ibuprofen and acetaminophen. 46:18.580 --> 46:20.690 And recognized for the first time in my life 46:20.690 --> 46:23.515 how incredibly powerful those drugs are. 46:23.515 --> 46:26.060 (audience laughing) 46:26.060 --> 46:26.893 Right? 46:27.830 --> 46:30.630 And how well those drugs work. 46:30.630 --> 46:31.913 Oh my gosh. 46:35.440 --> 46:38.080 And you know, I went through that process. 46:38.080 --> 46:40.180 And around that time, I had a friend I had met 46:40.180 --> 46:43.410 in the addiction treatment industry. 46:43.410 --> 46:46.470 And he was another young guy, he had gotten sober 46:46.470 --> 46:49.270 in the same way I did, and had decided 46:49.270 --> 46:52.220 he wanted to devote his life to make it his passion. 46:52.220 --> 46:55.830 And he reached out, and he would reach out 46:55.830 --> 46:56.990 every six months, we'd stay in touch. 46:56.990 --> 46:58.637 And he said, "Look, man, I'm about to do 46:58.637 --> 47:00.487 "this thing up here in New Hampshire. 47:01.357 --> 47:04.417 "I've got this little men's extended care, 47:04.417 --> 47:06.387 "but I'm about to grow it, would you come on board 47:06.387 --> 47:08.510 "and help me with that?" 47:08.510 --> 47:11.100 And I was like, I probably should not continue 47:11.100 --> 47:16.100 doing stunt work with a spinal fusion, a knee replacement. 47:18.510 --> 47:20.580 And I miss that, I missed it, I missed 47:20.580 --> 47:24.380 that every day being what I woke up to do. 47:24.380 --> 47:28.620 So I said yes, and I've been living up in New Hampshire 47:28.620 --> 47:31.340 since August of 2014. 47:31.340 --> 47:36.340 And we've gone from being a 62 bed 27 employee 47:37.060 --> 47:39.460 men's extended care to what I told you guys earlier, 47:39.460 --> 47:44.320 284 beds, 220 employees, and like I spend every day 47:44.320 --> 47:49.107 combining my livelihood and my passion in a way that 47:49.107 --> 47:50.933 I find incredibly valuable. 47:51.970 --> 47:55.590 You know, that's what my life is about today, is that work. 47:55.590 --> 47:59.770 And you know, when we talk about this space, 47:59.770 --> 48:02.315 and it's not my place, again, to speak 48:02.315 --> 48:05.330 to the educational piece of this and the data, 48:05.330 --> 48:07.100 but what I can tell you is we spend a lot of time 48:07.100 --> 48:09.743 thinking about why we are where we are with this thing. 48:10.920 --> 48:13.930 And one of the most profound things 48:13.930 --> 48:16.010 I've been able to come across, because oftentimes, 48:16.010 --> 48:19.020 I feel like I'm standing under a tidal wave, 48:19.020 --> 48:21.270 and as much as I push, it still keeps coming. 48:22.630 --> 48:25.723 There is a psychologist in Canada named Bruce Alexander. 48:27.190 --> 48:28.023 And he has something called 48:28.023 --> 48:30.410 the dislocation theory of addiction. 48:30.410 --> 48:32.530 His book is called The Globalization of Addiction, 48:32.530 --> 48:34.760 and since 1970, he has devoted his life 48:34.760 --> 48:36.510 to studying addiction. 48:36.510 --> 48:38.760 And he's the one who did that rat park experiment, 48:38.760 --> 48:41.240 you guys familiar with that at all? 48:41.240 --> 48:43.260 So I wanna tell you this, there's an experiment 48:43.260 --> 48:45.900 they did called rat park where those ads came out 48:45.900 --> 48:48.930 where they were putting mice in a cage 48:48.930 --> 48:50.800 with morphine water and the mice, 48:50.800 --> 48:53.560 they would drink it until they died, or cocaine water, 48:53.560 --> 48:56.090 they would drink that water until they died. 48:56.090 --> 48:57.380 And he went well, yeah. 48:57.380 --> 49:02.380 Like, you've got this isolated rat in a cage by itself. 49:03.690 --> 49:04.640 What's it gonna do? 49:05.710 --> 49:08.310 Let's build a cage where there's other rats around, 49:08.310 --> 49:11.960 there's some cheese, make some little wheels. 49:11.960 --> 49:14.653 And put that water in there and see what happens. 49:16.890 --> 49:19.410 Overwhelmingly, when they did that, 49:19.410 --> 49:21.910 those rats would not drink that drugged water. 49:21.910 --> 49:24.260 They would engage in the community around them. 49:25.390 --> 49:27.760 Overwhelmingly on top of that, when they put rats in there 49:27.760 --> 49:30.290 that were already addicted, those rats 49:30.290 --> 49:33.703 would withdrawal so they could participate in the community. 49:34.570 --> 49:36.290 The rats that did use the drugged water 49:36.290 --> 49:38.343 would use it recreationally occasionally. 49:39.220 --> 49:42.173 But it was not to death. 49:43.900 --> 49:47.150 And he studied societies where addiction has crept in, 49:47.150 --> 49:49.400 particularly native societies like in Canada. 49:50.560 --> 49:52.160 There was no addiction and suddenly, 49:52.160 --> 49:56.110 Western culture comes in, alcoholism becomes rampant. 49:56.110 --> 49:58.453 And what is the cause of this? 50:00.710 --> 50:02.880 So all I can speak to is kind of this idea 50:02.880 --> 50:04.430 and why we are where we are is, 50:05.390 --> 50:09.030 very, very generally and in an uneducated way that, 50:09.030 --> 50:11.180 as much as we have the capacity now today 50:11.180 --> 50:15.120 through our devices, social media, 50:15.120 --> 50:17.710 to connect with each other more than ever before, 50:17.710 --> 50:19.320 we are more disconnected from each other 50:19.320 --> 50:20.370 than we've ever been. 50:22.350 --> 50:24.423 And that is why we are where we are. 50:25.400 --> 50:28.110 And it's gonna take a community effort 50:28.110 --> 50:30.720 to get us back and a team effort. 50:30.720 --> 50:32.780 And a recognition that we are all valuable, 50:32.780 --> 50:35.183 whether we have substance use disorder or not. 50:37.090 --> 50:38.640 And we all have to become educated 50:38.640 --> 50:40.740 and understand this thing the best we can. 50:41.650 --> 50:43.640 And we have to do our part. 50:43.640 --> 50:46.500 'Cause our culture's on the line. 50:46.500 --> 50:48.053 Our society is on the line. 50:48.900 --> 50:52.720 You know, I don't put any onus on the prescriber. 50:52.720 --> 50:56.960 I think there's some misguided anger towards prescribers 50:56.960 --> 50:59.773 in this mess about prescription opiates. 51:00.670 --> 51:04.173 What I would look to is the money behind that. 51:05.340 --> 51:10.020 Like back to 2001, when the American Pain Association 51:10.020 --> 51:12.770 managed to lobby and get pain recognized 51:12.770 --> 51:15.090 as basically a fifth vital sign. 51:15.090 --> 51:17.540 And that completely changed healthcare practices. 51:18.380 --> 51:20.790 So I would look at those sources as 51:20.790 --> 51:23.853 where we potentially route our anger. 51:24.950 --> 51:29.950 Very recently, a family, the Sacklers, Purdue Pharma, 51:30.010 --> 51:33.280 makers of oxycodone, have now come full circle 51:33.280 --> 51:35.653 and are making a buprenorphine product. 51:38.692 --> 51:40.933 So we kinda look at that like, well, 51:41.790 --> 51:43.930 we started over here with you guys, 51:43.930 --> 51:46.400 becoming billionaires off oxycodone. 51:46.400 --> 51:47.710 And now here we are on the other side, 51:47.710 --> 51:49.160 and you're now gonna manufacture a drug 51:49.160 --> 51:51.010 to help people get off those opiates. 51:52.250 --> 51:54.600 To keep you plugged in, man, you know. 51:54.600 --> 51:57.263 So I just think it's important that we all be aware of that. 52:00.220 --> 52:05.090 For the rest of my time, what I'd really like to do 52:05.090 --> 52:06.420 is if anybody has any questions, 52:06.420 --> 52:08.143 I'm happy to talk about anything. 52:09.170 --> 52:11.480 And I just thank you guys so much for being here 52:11.480 --> 52:12.810 and I appreciate you listening to me talk, 52:12.810 --> 52:14.508 I'm Jeff Hatch, thank you guys. 52:14.508 --> 52:17.675 (audience applauding)