WEBVTT

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- Well, good morning everyone.

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Let me welcome all of you

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to the Carnegie Endowment
for International Peace.

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I'm Ashley Tellis.

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I'm a senior fellow here in the endowment.

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And it's a great opportunity for us today

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that we have Randy Shriver,

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the Assistant Secretary of Defense

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for Asian and Pacific Affairs,
joining us this morning.

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The topic as we have advertised

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is a conversation about
the two-plus-two dialogue

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that's going to happen
within about a week in Delhi.

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It's an event that is very important

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in the political calendar
because the relationship

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has really come a long
way since we first began

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working on the transformation
about 20 years ago.

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And I'm particularly delighted
that we could snag Randy

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to speak about it,
because he has the action

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on this issue in the Pentagon.

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Randy, as all of you know,
has had a long career

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in government, and public
policy, analysis and in business.

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Prior to his current position,

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he was the Deputy Assistant
Secretary of State

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for East Asia, and the Chief of Staff

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and the Senior Policy Advisor

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to the Deputy Secretary
of State under Bush

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(mumbles) right about there.

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He also served as the
CEO and the President

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of the Project 2049 Institute,

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whose website, if you haven't seen,

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I would strongly command to your attention

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because it does superb work on
East Asian security affairs.

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And Randy ran that for a long time

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before he came into government.

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He also was a founding partner
of Armitage International.

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So he's covered all the basics,

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everything from business to
public policy to government.

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And he's, without fear of contradiction,

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one of the nation's premier analysts

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of Asian security issues.

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So welcome, Randy.

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It's wonderful to have you.

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- Thank you very much for the invitation

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and I look forward to the discussion.

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- I look forward to that, too.

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I wanna start by just saying a few words

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of tribute to Senator McCain.

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Because he actually graced
this very room at Carnegie

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twice in the last decade, if I remember,

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speaking on the very
subject that we are about

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to have a conversation on.

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Without doubt, he was a towering figure

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in America's public life and
he certainly left the country

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stronger by his presence
and by his contributions

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as a soldier and as a public servant.

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They're very strong
convictions about the issues

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that we care about.

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He reminded us that our values

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are really the most important part

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of who we are as people and as a country.

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And that our strength is essential

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if our vision and our
values are to be protected.

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And on the two occasions
that he actually spoke

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at Carnegie, he made a very strong plea

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for a strengthened US-India
bilateral relationship

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as the foundation for the
success of the liberal order.

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And so it is a particularly
important thing, I think,

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that we recognize his spirit in this room

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as we have this conversation.

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I want to start this conversation
with Randy with a quote

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from Senator McCain's 2010
speech which was remarkable

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as I was just going through it last night

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so please hear it, and the vision.

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And he said in 2010, if
the United States and India

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are to forge a truly
strategic partnership,

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our seniors leaders in government

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must prioritize two areas
of cooperation above all,

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security and values.

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In short, the creation of
geopolitical conditions

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that secure and expand
the community of countries

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that value political and economic freedom.

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I think if there is lead motif

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for the conversation this morning,

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I think this is a great lead motif.

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And I wanna start on that note, Randy,

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by asking you to talk
about the broader chapeau

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under which we are thinking
of the bilateral relationship

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which is the free and open Indo-Pacific.

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The President surprised many
because of the fears raised

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during the campaign of isolationism

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and America's engagement in the world

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when he came out and embraced

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the free and open Indo-Pacific.

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And yet this has been a subject

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that has been clouded by some uncertainty.

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So I was wondering if you
could spend a few minutes

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just laying out what the
administration's vision is

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and then sort of helping us think

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how you see India
fitting into that rubric.

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- Sure.

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Well, thank you, can I just start

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by thanking you--
- Of course.

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- For the invitation and
giving me this opportunity

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to talk about this relationship

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and the upcoming two-plus-two.

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And thank you so much for opening

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by paying tribute to Senator McCain,

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somebody who is a great American hero

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and meant so much to so
many, but particularly

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for those of us who work
in the Indo-Pacific.

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His leadership was just
tremendous and counted on

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and now there's a real hole
there that, I don't know,

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that can be filled but we certainly valued

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his voice for so long so
thank you for that as well.

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I gotta also say, it's a little,

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it's a little strange
for me to be sitting here

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being asked questions by
Ashley Tellis about India.

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(audience laughing)

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Ashley Tellis is the
person that we all go to

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to ask questions about India
and have for a long time

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so I'll play along.

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- That's very kind.

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That's very kind, Randy.

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But you're not going to, please.

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- But we still, in the
Department of Defense

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and across the government,
count on Ashley's expertise.

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So, but I'll play along
today and do my best here.

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So we've begun to publicly articulate

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the aspects of the Indo-Pacific,

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Free and Open Indo-Pacific Strategy.

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Secretary Mattis did that primarily

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with his speech at the
Shangri-La Dialogue recently

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at the Indo-Pacific Business Forum.

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Secretary Pompeo,
Secretary of Energy Perry,

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Secretary Ross, OPIC President Washburne

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all started to articulate
the economic and energy

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and development aspects of that

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so I don't need to repeat all that.

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But I think that the core is our belief

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that we're promoting a positive,

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affirmative vision for the region.

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It's not necessarily anti
anybody, counter anybody;

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it's really affirming and
promoting the principles

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of a free and open Indo-Pacific.

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So by free, at the core of that is

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we believe countries should have complete

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sovereign control of their countries

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to make decisions from capital,

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free from coercion, free
from undue pressure.

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We also mean free open transparent

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and reciprocal trade relationships.

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By open, we're talking about open

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areas for commerce, for
freedom of navigation,

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for broad participation

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in the life of the region
commercially, economically.

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So we think this is something that is,

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US vision and strategy,
but one that countries

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can readily sign up for
in a variety of ways,

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but particularly this aspect
of promoting sovereignty.

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Because we know that
there are threats to that,

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we know that one of the
principal challenges we're facing

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is the potential erosion of sovereignty

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coming through predatory economics,

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coming through intimidation and coercion

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through military means.

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So at a minimum sort of baseline,

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we really wanna promote
that idea and be a partner.

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We don't seek influence or
control of anybody's territory.

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We feel we're better off
if countries have their own

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sovereign control and the
ability to protect that.

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So how does India fit in?

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That's a subject of continuing discussion

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and will certainly be
featured at the two-plus-two,

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but I would suggest just lay side-by-side

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Secretary Mattis' speech at Shangri-La

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and Prime Minister Modi's
speech at Shangri-La

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who, of course, gave the keynote.

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This is not a situation
where we're really searching

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for common ground and convergence.

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This is where a situation where

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as our leadership articulates the vision

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we see a lot of convergence and belief

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that these are principles we
both share and wanna promote.

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So our goal is really
to operationalize that

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with India as a partner.

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And the specifics I think will take form

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and some of that will
be in the defense area,

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some of that may be in the
development assistance area,

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but that's what we're working on.

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But again I think at the foundation,

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we can see our leadership
roughly has the same vision

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as articulated by Prime Minister
Modi and Secretary Mattis,

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and now it's our job to
really operationalize that.

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- I actually found Prime
Minister Modi's speech

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at Shangri-La quite remarkable,

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because he emphasized the
same teams that we have.

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Though, he seemed to draw the distinction

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between the vision and strategy,

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and I'm not quite sure what was intended

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by the emphasis of that distinction.

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But clearly on the headlines,

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he emphasized a complete comfort

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with what the United States
was trying to achieve

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because I think he sees that

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as being in India's interest as well.

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Is that the sense that
you get as you prepare

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for the discussions going
up to the two-plus-two?

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- Yes, again, we see,
at least on the vision,

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a convergence and a lot of common ground.

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In terms of the strategy,
well, I think that's something

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that we need to build out.

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And we've been putting this together

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but it's taken us a
while to articulate this.

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Secretary Mattis' speechs at Shangri-La

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was a year and a half
into the administration

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and now we have our other agencies

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articulating that at the
Indo-Pacific Business Forum.

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So these things take a
little time to build out.

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As we do that side-by-side
in parallel with India,

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I think that, again I'll
use the same phrase,

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operationalizing this strategy,

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we need to figure out what the
division of labor might be,

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where the partnership might be,

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where the minilateral,
multilateral opportunities

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that include both the United
States and India may be,

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and that's basically
what we're discussing.

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- Let me come back to this
question in a different way.

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Shyam Saran, who was the
former Indian Foreign Secretary

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and was deeply engaged in the negotiations

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on the Civil Nuclear Agreement,
wrote a piece two weeks ago,

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I think it was published in
one of the Indian newspapers,

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where he made the argument
that although the US and India

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share very strong convergence
on the Indo-Pacific vision,

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let's not kid ourselves,
at the end of the day

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there is a common challenge,

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and that common challenge is China.

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If we did not have a challenge
of the kind posed by China

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in the area of economics,
in the area of sovereignty,

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in the area of its own
military capabilities,

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the Indo-Pacific concept
would sort of be less salient.

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How do we think of China?

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Because it's almost like Banquo's ghost

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when we talk about the Indo-Pacific.

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It's the one country that
has tremendous prominence

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in the region that has
a gravitational field

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that is attractive in some areas

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but also repelling because
of some of its behaviors.

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So you mentioned that this
is not against anyone,

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but there is a view both in India

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and even in the United States

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that we cannot sort of
have rosy tinted glasses

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when we think about China.

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So how does China fit
into our common vision

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for a free and open Indo-Pacific?

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- Well, I'm rarely accused
of rose tinted glasses

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when it comes to China, but,

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look, I don't think we wanna lose the idea

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that this is an inclusive strategy,

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and we would prefer China
embracing the same vision.

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I think if you're against free and or open

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there's a notice there to explain

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exactly what it is you don't like about it

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because then you're
getting right to the heart

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of threatening a country's sovereignty

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and ability to have free flow of commerce,

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freedom of navigation, et cetera.

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So I think it's not so
much, again countering

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any particular country
but China's behavior,

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things they've articulated,
sometimes we call China opaque

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or difficult, but in other
ways they're very clear, right,

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and they're clear in public statements,

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they're clear in their
actions and their behavior

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and they're demonstrating that they have

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a different aspiration for
the Indo-Pacific region

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and it's manifested in
their economic strategy,

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Belt and Road Initiative,
their militarization

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of the South China Sea, a lot
of the coercive approaches

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to the internal politics of others.

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So maybe there's a counterfactual

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where China isn't doing these things

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and we have trouble getting countries

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to align on an Indo-Pacific
vision and strategy,

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but the world we live
in it is in fact helping

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countries coalesce around this.

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So I suppose that's a
residual sort of benefit

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of China's behavior.

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Again our preference would
be an inclusive strategy

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that includes China as a
constructive participant

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in regional affairs but that's
I think largely demonstrated

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by their behavior, not
the world we live in.

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So we wanna be a partner with
India and other countries

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at looking how to have alternatives.

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You don't necessarily
thwart or counter something

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like Belt and Road Initiative;

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you shine a light on the downsides of it,

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but you also have to have an alternative.

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And we've talked to India about

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coordinating development assistance

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and looking at how we can be partners

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in providing that alternative.

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Same would do in the
military and security areas.

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How do we prove ourselves
a preferred partner

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and a more trusted and reliable partner

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to countries in the Indo-Pacific region,

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rather than saying you
shouldn't have a relationship

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with China and you shouldn't
do these activities with China,

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that's just unrealistic
given China's size,

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influence and geography.

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So this is the conversation
we're going to have

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in Delhi, or I should say
continue to have in Delhi,

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and I think China will be a factor

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in most of what we do going forward.

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- And I think the government of India

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certainly does not want
to have a relationship

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that is one of complete
alienation with China anyway,

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because China exists on its borders,

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it has a civilization relationship

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going back centuries so on and so forth.

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But I think there is a
common effort being made

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with respect to an effective response

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and the effective response
will take a different form

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in the strategic area, different
form and the economic area.

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Do you have the sense
that our relationship now

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is mature enough that we
could begin to think of things

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that we do, not only for the other

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but also for third parties
that might be implicated

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in both the strategic and economic realm?

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So for example, are we ready
to sort of work together

16:26.650 --> 16:30.140
in a place like Africa
or in Southeast Asia

16:30.140 --> 16:31.240
in the economic realm?

16:32.075 --> 16:34.220
In the strategic realm,
what do you imagine

16:34.220 --> 16:36.420
the two countries
actually being able to do?

16:37.560 --> 16:41.170
- It's a great question, and
I do think our relationship

16:41.170 --> 16:42.610
has matured to that point,

16:42.610 --> 16:45.350
and these are items on our agenda.

16:45.350 --> 16:48.280
So we'll talk about, as I said,

16:48.280 --> 16:50.130
the coordination of
development assistance,

16:50.130 --> 16:53.834
and I think we'll try
to find some key areas

16:53.834 --> 16:57.460
where individual countries or regions

16:57.460 --> 16:59.160
are facing particular challenges

16:59.160 --> 17:02.010
in how we can find

17:04.075 --> 17:07.120
a common effort that,
or where synergies exist

17:07.120 --> 17:12.120
if India and the US are involved
in development assistance

17:12.210 --> 17:15.200
or economic activities trade.

17:15.200 --> 17:17.980
So I think that is where
our relationship is

17:17.980 --> 17:21.167
and I think we can both promote
our respective interests

17:21.167 --> 17:23.260
and our shared interests by doing that.

17:23.260 --> 17:25.580
I think that'll be true in
the security area as well.

17:25.580 --> 17:27.973
We've seen exercises,

17:28.830 --> 17:30.940
not just bilateral US-India exercises,

17:30.940 --> 17:32.763
but multilateral exercises.

17:33.780 --> 17:35.920
Well, obviously you exercise
for a reason, right?

17:35.920 --> 17:37.726
You exercise to improve readiness

17:37.726 --> 17:40.160
and training of your own forces,

17:40.160 --> 17:41.520
but you think about contingencies,

17:41.520 --> 17:46.060
you think about real-world possibilities,

17:46.060 --> 17:50.900
and so multilateralizing
those opportunities

17:50.900 --> 17:52.100
is part of that as well.

17:52.980 --> 17:55.770
- Let me ask you a specific
question about the two-plus-two,

17:55.770 --> 17:59.280
because it's in this context
that the two-plus-two

17:59.280 --> 18:02.453
has received incredible
attention in India,

18:03.510 --> 18:06.282
partly because it's the APEX meeting

18:06.282 --> 18:08.570
between leaders and the two sides

18:08.570 --> 18:12.250
and will set an agenda
for some time to come

18:12.250 --> 18:15.130
in terms of activities,
in terms of programmatic

18:15.130 --> 18:17.263
developments and so on and so forth.

18:17.263 --> 18:20.820
Can you tell us something
about how this two-plus-two

18:20.820 --> 18:23.900
will be structured, what's on
the agenda for conversation

18:23.900 --> 18:25.163
and just sort of walk our audience

18:25.163 --> 18:27.920
through what's likely to happen in Delhi

18:27.920 --> 18:29.520
a week or so from now?

18:29.520 --> 18:30.353
- Sure.

18:30.353 --> 18:32.040
Well, first of all,
it's a historic meeting,

18:32.040 --> 18:35.041
it's the first ever two-plus-two
between our countries

18:35.041 --> 18:37.580
that's significant in and of itself.

18:37.580 --> 18:40.170
But I think beyond that,
we have an opportunity

18:40.170 --> 18:44.330
to really advance the relationship
in in significant ways.

18:44.330 --> 18:47.790
You were kind enough to
go through some of my bio

18:47.790 --> 18:51.270
and my background, I've seen
a lot of high-level exchanges.

18:51.270 --> 18:53.913
Sometimes you meet, you talk, you go away

18:53.913 --> 18:56.630
and don't have a lot to show for it.

18:56.630 --> 18:59.730
In this case, I think we're
meeting at this high level,

18:59.730 --> 19:04.130
we'll talk about regional
issues and strategic issues,

19:04.130 --> 19:07.690
but we're also gonna have a set
of actual concrete outcomes.

19:07.690 --> 19:09.340
So it's a very good combination

19:09.340 --> 19:11.720
of strategic high-level dialogue

19:11.720 --> 19:14.520
and concrete outcomes that
will serve as enablers

19:14.520 --> 19:18.960
for advancing the relationship
well beyond the meeting

19:18.960 --> 19:21.530
in Delhi on September 6th and 7th.

19:21.530 --> 19:26.140
So the conversation on strategic issues,

19:26.140 --> 19:30.280
regional security issues,
certainly our shared interest

19:30.280 --> 19:32.523
in understanding China
and how to respond to that

19:32.523 --> 19:34.860
will be front and center.

19:34.860 --> 19:37.350
Other aspects of promoting the
free and open Indo-Pacific,

19:37.350 --> 19:39.580
how we approach Southeast Asia,

19:39.580 --> 19:41.167
I think we'll talk about Afghanistan,

19:41.167 --> 19:43.910
our shared interest there and driving that

19:43.910 --> 19:46.603
to a political settlement.

19:47.937 --> 19:49.382
But some of the concrete areas,

19:49.382 --> 19:53.240
and maybe I'll just stick
to the defense areas,

19:53.240 --> 19:55.600
we're working on a set
of enabling agreements,

19:55.600 --> 19:58.630
it's a bit of an alphabet
soup of agreements.

19:58.630 --> 20:01.760
But collectively what
that'll allow us to do

20:01.760 --> 20:03.340
is have secure communications,

20:03.340 --> 20:06.800
protect technology, protect information,

20:06.800 --> 20:08.810
getting those enabling agreements in place

20:08.810 --> 20:13.390
will allow security assistance
cooperation to go forward,

20:13.390 --> 20:16.060
will allow us to exercise and training

20:16.060 --> 20:18.050
in more meaningful ways.

20:18.050 --> 20:21.950
So again those are really
key concrete outcomes

20:21.950 --> 20:24.530
that will set us on a good
course for the future.

20:24.530 --> 20:25.970
I think we're gonna expand the scope

20:25.970 --> 20:28.461
of some of our exercises.

20:28.461 --> 20:32.000
Increase the complexity and the elements

20:32.000 --> 20:34.770
that will participate in these exercises.

20:34.770 --> 20:36.490
That's a very good outcome.

20:36.490 --> 20:39.860
We're gonna talk about
augmenting the two-plus-two

20:39.860 --> 20:43.970
to include perhaps at
my level a two-plus-two

20:43.970 --> 20:46.280
and my counterpart at State Department

20:46.280 --> 20:49.760
so that as valuable as those exchanges are

20:49.760 --> 20:52.440
they tend to be once a year at best

20:52.440 --> 20:56.290
so we can augment that with
other senior-level dialogue.

20:56.290 --> 20:58.970
So that's a very good outcome.

20:58.970 --> 21:02.600
The elevation of India to
Strategic Trade Authority

21:02.600 --> 21:07.070
Tier One status is a
very important outcome

21:07.070 --> 21:11.174
because again that's an enabler for trade

21:11.174 --> 21:15.250
and technology cooperation 'cause it lifts

21:15.250 --> 21:19.613
some of the restrictions
on our ability to do that.

21:20.740 --> 21:23.170
So there's just a number
of things that again

21:23.170 --> 21:26.100
will really set us on a great
course as we go forward.

21:26.100 --> 21:27.340
- Well, the augmentation idea

21:27.340 --> 21:28.760
is actually particularly important,

21:28.760 --> 21:32.803
because it's hard to imagine
the Secretary of Defense

21:32.803 --> 21:34.810
and his counterpart in
India being able to meet

21:34.810 --> 21:36.410
as frequently as we would like

21:36.410 --> 21:39.660
simply because of
troubles of the calendar.

21:39.660 --> 21:41.800
But if we can, at the working level,

21:41.800 --> 21:44.990
have a continuous dialogue
I think that would be

21:44.990 --> 21:48.750
extremely productive and
so kudos for doing that.

21:48.750 --> 21:52.370
Let me come back to the
strategic aspect at two levels.

21:52.370 --> 21:53.823
One is the region itself.

21:54.860 --> 21:57.790
India lives in a sort
of troubled neighborhood

21:57.790 --> 22:00.330
and we suddenly have a common project

22:00.330 --> 22:03.313
with respect to success in Afghanistan.

22:03.313 --> 22:06.710
There have been, the last
few weeks in Afghanistan

22:06.710 --> 22:10.010
had been particularly troubled
with Taliban activity,

22:10.010 --> 22:12.243
the attack on Ghazni
and so on and so forth.

22:13.380 --> 22:18.380
Where do you see the President's decision

22:18.850 --> 22:20.950
to sort of stay the course in Afghanistan?

22:21.960 --> 22:26.960
How do you see the future
of US-India cooperation

22:27.370 --> 22:29.050
in light of that decision?

22:29.050 --> 22:31.500
What are the expectations
of India at this point?

22:33.200 --> 22:36.410
- Well, I'll leave the
strategic policy decisions

22:36.410 --> 22:39.760
to the President and Secretary
Pompeo, Ambassador Bolton

22:39.760 --> 22:42.180
about the future of our approach there.

22:42.180 --> 22:45.070
But I think what Secretary
Mattis said yesterday

22:45.070 --> 22:47.860
and General Nicholson, our
outgoing commander there,

22:47.860 --> 22:52.670
have said is, looking through
all this recent activity

22:52.670 --> 22:56.000
we, nonetheless, see
signs that there may be

22:56.000 --> 22:59.113
opportunities to move the
political process forward.

23:00.340 --> 23:05.010
President Ghani's initial
ceasefire was very revealing

23:05.010 --> 23:07.180
in a lot of ways, first of
all, that they pulled it off.

23:07.180 --> 23:09.470
And some wanna say, well,
it was only three days

23:09.470 --> 23:13.150
but in fact there were sort
of localized ceasefires

23:13.150 --> 23:14.640
that extended beyond that.

23:14.640 --> 23:17.800
And again it was very
revealing that there was

23:17.800 --> 23:19.810
a growing interest even
on the Taliban side

23:19.810 --> 23:22.763
maybe for accelerated reconciliation.

23:23.900 --> 23:26.230
So we're seeing some signs

23:26.230 --> 23:30.070
that a political process is moving.

23:30.070 --> 23:33.000
President Ghani is
pursuing another ceasefire

23:33.000 --> 23:36.613
and we'll see if the Taliban
are willing to step up to that.

23:37.490 --> 23:41.010
So I think where we can be
good partners with India,

23:41.010 --> 23:45.500
first of all, I think our goals
are shared and common here,

23:45.500 --> 23:48.540
we do wanna drive this to
a political settlement.

23:48.540 --> 23:51.410
India has a lot of experience
in being a multi-ethnic,

23:51.410 --> 23:54.920
multi-religious democracy and manages

23:54.920 --> 23:56.480
all those complexities very well.

23:56.480 --> 23:59.830
There's things that Afghanistan
can surely learn from that.

23:59.830 --> 24:01.250
But then there's the more concrete,

24:01.250 --> 24:03.523
the economic, and development assistance,

24:04.990 --> 24:08.150
election training and
potentially monitoring

24:09.190 --> 24:12.920
some logistic support that may
get into the security area,

24:12.920 --> 24:16.333
although I think our Indian friends are,

24:17.970 --> 24:21.110
have some limitations that
they wanna honor and respect

24:21.110 --> 24:23.770
for regional security interests there.

24:23.770 --> 24:26.930
So I do see that this is an
area where we can cooperate

24:26.930 --> 24:29.960
and that will be an agenda
item at the two-plus-two.

24:29.960 --> 24:31.130
- And what about Pakistan?

24:31.130 --> 24:34.120
Because a great deal of the prospects

24:34.120 --> 24:36.590
for success in Afghanistan are determined

24:36.590 --> 24:38.360
by the choices that Pakistan makes

24:38.360 --> 24:40.410
which is one-dimensional to the issue.

24:40.410 --> 24:42.350
But the other dimension is Pakistan

24:42.350 --> 24:44.840
as a factor in US-India relations

24:44.840 --> 24:47.950
where India has viewed
itself as being a victim

24:47.950 --> 24:50.720
of Pakistani supported
terrorism over the years.

24:50.720 --> 24:52.520
And the Trump administration has really

24:52.520 --> 24:56.060
come out quite forthrightly
in terms of holding Pakistan

24:56.060 --> 24:59.910
to account for these misdemeanors.

24:59.910 --> 25:02.573
How do you see the triangular relationship

25:02.573 --> 25:05.870
between the US and India
and Pakistan at this point?

25:05.870 --> 25:08.040
- Well, I probably don't
want to say a lot on that

25:08.040 --> 25:10.300
because we wanna give
the new prime minister,

25:10.300 --> 25:12.230
the new government in Pakistan space

25:12.230 --> 25:15.600
to explore where there
may be opportunities

25:15.600 --> 25:17.883
to improve relations with India.

25:18.740 --> 25:21.300
Many new governments come
in to power in Islamabad

25:21.300 --> 25:25.290
and wanna do that and then
run smack-dab into reality

25:25.290 --> 25:27.720
and all the difficulties.

25:27.720 --> 25:32.010
But in terms of separating
what was said during a campaign

25:32.010 --> 25:34.493
and what he said since the election,

25:35.350 --> 25:38.470
we wanna give him space
to find the opportunities

25:38.470 --> 25:40.340
to improve things with India.

25:40.340 --> 25:44.560
I think on the questions
about how that all relates

25:44.560 --> 25:47.103
to Afghanistan and shared interests,

25:48.970 --> 25:51.760
there's no question we
need Pakistan's help

25:51.760 --> 25:55.060
in encouraging, persuading,
pressuring the Taliban

25:55.060 --> 25:56.790
to come to the negotiating table,

25:56.790 --> 25:59.500
deal with the national unity government

25:59.500 --> 26:03.160
under President Ghani
and talk about a future

26:03.160 --> 26:06.720
where they're included,
but not through force

26:06.720 --> 26:08.713
but through a political process.

26:10.190 --> 26:12.800
We have made decisions
on curbing assistance

26:12.800 --> 26:17.360
and putting constraints on
our relationship with Pakistan

26:17.360 --> 26:21.630
as a means to try to persuade
them to adopt that course

26:21.630 --> 26:23.853
and use their influence on the Taliban.

26:24.970 --> 26:29.000
We're still evaluating
as to the impact of that.

26:29.000 --> 26:31.740
It's certainly not where we want it to be,

26:31.740 --> 26:34.790
but it's something that
I think we'll stick with.

26:34.790 --> 26:38.930
And certainly the end state should be one

26:38.930 --> 26:40.293
that we can all agree on.

26:41.520 --> 26:44.360
So I think it's a matter
of dealing with suspicions

26:44.360 --> 26:47.090
and distrust in the mix of all this.

26:47.090 --> 26:48.680
And I think the best thing,

26:48.680 --> 26:50.680
if we can get some momentum behind this

26:51.680 --> 26:54.990
initial ceasefire, sorry,
the second ceasefire offer,

26:54.990 --> 26:57.970
and have that lead to
some political dialogue,

26:57.970 --> 27:00.420
I think that would go
a long way in reducing

27:00.420 --> 27:03.730
suspicions among all these
other actors and players.

27:03.730 --> 27:05.830
- Absolutely, and that, by definition,

27:05.830 --> 27:07.060
will be a long-term process, right?

27:07.060 --> 27:11.797
It's not likely to come to any
happy conclusion, so be it.

27:11.797 --> 27:13.180
- It may be.

27:13.180 --> 27:16.250
I mean we've moved our
Afghanistan approach

27:16.250 --> 27:18.720
to a conditions-based
approach, not a timeline,

27:18.720 --> 27:21.370
but if Secretary Mattis were sitting here

27:21.370 --> 27:22.730
I can assure you he would say

27:22.730 --> 27:26.660
17 years is long enough
to be involved in a war.

27:26.660 --> 27:27.493
We need this to end.

27:27.493 --> 27:28.900
We want this to end.

27:28.900 --> 27:31.840
So we're not on a timeline;
it's conditions-based.

27:31.840 --> 27:35.850
But we do see, through
President Ghani's initiatives,

27:35.850 --> 27:37.750
some of the reaction from the Taliban

27:37.750 --> 27:39.410
to the initial ceasefire.

27:39.410 --> 27:42.200
We do see an opportunity there
that we really wanna seize.

27:42.200 --> 27:45.240
So it may be long term,
ultimately, to get Afghanistan

27:45.240 --> 27:47.130
to a place where we all want it to be,

27:47.130 --> 27:49.500
but this is a potential inflection point

27:49.500 --> 27:50.543
that we wanna seize.

27:51.500 --> 27:54.460
- Can I move the aperture and make it

27:54.460 --> 27:56.960
a little broader for a second
'cause I wanna talk about

27:56.960 --> 28:00.840
a country to Pakistan's
west to India's west,

28:00.840 --> 28:04.081
which is of concern to
India, and this is Iran,

28:04.081 --> 28:06.320
and that concern is obviously anchored

28:06.320 --> 28:10.093
in the change of course that
the administration is pursuing.

28:10.930 --> 28:12.230
I suspect this as an issue

28:12.230 --> 28:14.273
that will come up in the two-plus-two.

28:15.200 --> 28:20.200
The Indian concern about Iran, of course,

28:20.670 --> 28:25.050
has to do with changes in US
policy and the implications

28:25.050 --> 28:27.490
for India's own relationship with Iran.

28:27.490 --> 28:29.520
What are we asking of India and Iran?

28:29.520 --> 28:32.323
What is the administration
trying to get done here?

28:33.280 --> 28:37.760
- Well, I am, on most days of the week,

28:37.760 --> 28:39.920
happy to leave Iran to my colleague,

28:39.920 --> 28:41.440
Robert Karem, my counterpart

28:41.440 --> 28:43.060
as an assistant secretary of defense.

28:43.060 --> 28:45.600
But you're right, it
does very much bleed over

28:45.600 --> 28:49.180
into my area of
responsibility and it will be

28:49.180 --> 28:52.973
a topic of discussion, I
believe, at the two-plus-two.

28:53.860 --> 28:55.560
Without going into a lot of detail,

28:55.560 --> 28:57.670
because I think we need
to hear from the Indians,

28:57.670 --> 29:00.230
this is still a relatively new development

29:00.230 --> 29:04.500
pulling out of JCPOA and
what that may ultimately mean

29:04.500 --> 29:08.543
for a variety of things,
potential sanctions, et cetera.

29:09.420 --> 29:13.050
I think we'll go to the
table and look forward

29:13.050 --> 29:15.910
to hearing from the Indians
about their relationship there

29:15.910 --> 29:19.681
and what they see as key priorities

29:19.681 --> 29:22.820
to try to preserve, if they can.

29:22.820 --> 29:25.610
But obviously the President
made the decision he did on Iran

29:25.610 --> 29:27.550
because of concerns about the agreement

29:27.550 --> 29:31.030
and about having, in our view,

29:31.030 --> 29:33.830
a need for something much stronger

29:33.830 --> 29:37.530
and dealing with Iran's,
not only nuclear program

29:37.530 --> 29:40.900
but their behavior so
I think we need to sit

29:40.900 --> 29:43.820
and have that very open
candid, sober dialogue

29:43.820 --> 29:45.580
and see where we come out the other side.

29:45.580 --> 29:48.780
But we understand that India
will raise these issues

29:48.780 --> 29:51.280
and we welcome that and
we'll have the discussion.

29:52.350 --> 29:54.250
- There is a parallel discussion around

29:54.250 --> 29:57.573
that's also on Indian
minds, and that is Russia.

29:58.770 --> 30:03.210
The administration is
struggling to come to terms

30:03.210 --> 30:05.690
with the whole problem
of Russian interference

30:05.690 --> 30:08.350
in US domestic politics,
while the President,

30:08.350 --> 30:10.790
at the same time, has
made various overtures

30:10.790 --> 30:11.933
of outreach to Russia.

30:12.785 --> 30:14.770
The specific concern
to India at the moment

30:14.770 --> 30:16.477
is of course the threat of sanctions

30:16.477 --> 30:19.553
particularly on Russian
and Indian defense trade.

30:20.490 --> 30:22.330
I imagine this is one of those issues

30:22.330 --> 30:24.830
that will also have to be
discussed at some point.

30:25.680 --> 30:30.220
How does one work with India

30:30.220 --> 30:33.000
to achieve a common
goal which is to sort of

30:33.000 --> 30:36.650
strengthen India's capacity
in the Indo-Pacific

30:36.650 --> 30:39.270
without letting India's
relations with Russia

30:39.270 --> 30:41.270
become a problem in US-Indian relations?

30:42.661 --> 30:45.010
- It's a complex issue so let me,

30:45.010 --> 30:46.940
let me just say a few things.

30:46.940 --> 30:50.667
We understand the historical
nature of that relationship

30:50.667 --> 30:54.250
and the legacy of that
relationship as it applies

30:54.250 --> 30:57.150
to the defense ministry and the military,

30:57.150 --> 31:00.393
so a lot of legacy platforms
and the need to support those.

31:02.372 --> 31:06.137
I think what we wanna do
is have a conversation

31:06.137 --> 31:09.250
with India that's not about
the past and their legacy,

31:09.250 --> 31:12.483
but about the future and look
at the nature of this regime.

31:13.360 --> 31:15.480
Look at Crimea, Ukraine, I called it

31:15.480 --> 31:17.270
the laundry list when I was in Manila,

31:17.270 --> 31:20.633
the chemical attack in the UK.

31:22.879 --> 31:26.810
And look at Russia's own
future, their demographics.

31:26.810 --> 31:31.810
This is I think not a country
that you really wanna have

31:32.010 --> 31:36.290
a strategic partnership
well into the future.

31:36.290 --> 31:38.290
We can be a more reliable, better partner.

31:38.290 --> 31:41.050
So that's sort of at the macro level.

31:41.050 --> 31:46.050
To deal with issues like
CATSA and potential sanctions

31:47.430 --> 31:49.593
I think we need to be very careful here.

31:50.530 --> 31:53.210
Secretary Mattis did in
fact go to Capitol Hill

31:53.210 --> 31:56.530
and often use India as
sort of a flagship example

31:56.530 --> 32:01.530
as to why we wanted a waiver
for the Secretary of State.

32:01.940 --> 32:04.340
And so I think that created
a certain impression

32:05.327 --> 32:07.910
that we're gonna completely
protect the India relationship,

32:07.910 --> 32:12.910
insulate India from any
fallout from this legislation

32:13.540 --> 32:14.510
no matter what they do.

32:14.510 --> 32:17.943
I would say that's a bit misleading.

32:20.890 --> 32:23.960
We would still have very
significant concerns

32:23.960 --> 32:27.930
if India pursued major
new platforms and systems.

32:27.930 --> 32:31.820
I can't sit here and tell you
that they would be exempt,

32:31.820 --> 32:34.080
that we would use that waiver.

32:34.080 --> 32:35.810
That'll be the decision of the President.

32:35.810 --> 32:39.010
If he's faced with a major new platform

32:39.010 --> 32:41.660
and capability that India
has acquired from Russia

32:41.660 --> 32:43.080
that'll be the President's decision.

32:43.080 --> 32:44.950
But all I know is I can't
sit here and tell you

32:44.950 --> 32:47.050
that the waiver will be used in that case.

32:48.810 --> 32:52.320
So that's a specific thing
that we'll have to navigate.

32:52.320 --> 32:56.180
I think overall one of the
reasons Secretary Mattis

32:56.180 --> 33:00.010
use India as that flagship
example is he knows

33:00.010 --> 33:02.240
where he wants the
relationship to go with India.

33:02.240 --> 33:03.570
He wants it to go forward.

33:03.570 --> 33:05.300
He wants it to improve, strengthen,

33:05.300 --> 33:08.170
be more capable as a partnership

33:08.170 --> 33:10.230
and he doesn't want these impediments.

33:10.230 --> 33:14.580
And so whether it's finding ways

33:14.580 --> 33:17.510
to persuade India to
go a different course,

33:17.510 --> 33:19.790
rely on us as a trusted partner

33:19.790 --> 33:21.640
and supplier of defense equipment,

33:21.640 --> 33:24.490
whether it's giving
consideration to a waiver

33:24.490 --> 33:25.830
we know the direction we wanna go

33:25.830 --> 33:28.470
and we don't want these to be impediments.

33:28.470 --> 33:30.840
- I hope we get the
opportunity of the two-plus-two

33:30.840 --> 33:33.163
to actually have the
strategic conversation.

33:34.190 --> 33:37.260
Because the strategic
conversation is truly fundamental.

33:37.260 --> 33:39.650
If India understands
Russia's own evolution

33:40.810 --> 33:45.810
and recognizes its limits for
India's own self-interests

33:45.950 --> 33:48.040
that would be a productive opportunity

33:48.040 --> 33:51.030
for us to see how we can break through

33:51.030 --> 33:52.930
some of the logjams and other issues.

33:52.930 --> 33:55.280
- Well said, I think
we'll endeavor to do that.

33:56.830 --> 33:59.270
- I will have two last questions

33:59.270 --> 34:01.650
before I open it to the floor.

34:01.650 --> 34:04.700
One has to do with the
change that has occurred

34:04.700 --> 34:08.730
in the Trump administration
with respect to economic policy,

34:08.730 --> 34:10.600
not only towards India but towards

34:10.600 --> 34:12.400
a range of other countries.

34:12.400 --> 34:15.000
But the specific question
to India is the following.

34:16.360 --> 34:17.790
The Department of Defense in particular

34:17.790 --> 34:19.640
has gone out of its way to emphasize

34:19.640 --> 34:21.870
the importance of the
strategic partnership

34:21.870 --> 34:25.190
as has the administration and
the National Security Strategy

34:25.190 --> 34:28.120
and the National Defense
Strategy documents.

34:28.120 --> 34:32.510
But how can we sort of work with India

34:32.510 --> 34:35.430
when in the economic arena we still have

34:35.430 --> 34:39.820
a series of irritants and difficulties

34:39.820 --> 34:44.630
while we appear to be
making much greater progress

34:45.560 --> 34:46.873
in the defense space?

34:48.780 --> 34:50.930
Because the Trump
administration has made economic

34:50.930 --> 34:55.610
so important and central to
its engagement with the world,

34:55.610 --> 34:59.020
how do we sort of keep both these elements

34:59.020 --> 35:02.950
in the relationship in
sync as we move forward?

35:02.950 --> 35:04.020
- Well, it can be a challenge.

35:04.020 --> 35:08.330
And I would just say in
support of my colleagues

35:08.330 --> 35:10.343
who do the trade and economic issues,

35:11.600 --> 35:15.070
we need that channel at
that ongoing dialogue

35:15.070 --> 35:18.570
to be successful because these
are long-standing irritants.

35:18.570 --> 35:20.900
I would say this is not just
the Trump administration

35:20.900 --> 35:24.140
or maybe the Trump
administration is taking this

35:24.140 --> 35:27.230
more head on and applying different tools,

35:27.230 --> 35:29.290
but you know better than I,

35:29.290 --> 35:32.310
some of the long-standing
irritants in this relationship.

35:32.310 --> 35:34.350
I would say from a defense perspective

35:36.343 --> 35:38.320
that the economic and trade relationship

35:38.320 --> 35:42.230
can be supportive, additive, complementary

35:42.230 --> 35:44.620
to what we do on the
defense and security side

35:44.620 --> 35:47.300
and that's the optimal environment.

35:47.300 --> 35:50.920
But we certainly have history and are able

35:50.920 --> 35:54.174
to walk and chew gum at the same time.

35:54.174 --> 35:57.840
I'm old enough to remember
the difficulties we had

35:57.840 --> 36:01.970
with Japan in the 1980s when
we had members of Congress

36:01.970 --> 36:05.470
smashing Toshiba products
on the steps of the Capitol

36:05.470 --> 36:09.880
and incredible trade irritants
and disputes with Japan,

36:09.880 --> 36:13.040
all the while our alliance
and our security relationship

36:13.040 --> 36:15.780
was evolving at a very good pace

36:15.780 --> 36:17.980
driven by our security interest.

36:17.980 --> 36:22.770
So we are able to
compartmentalize, if we have to.

36:22.770 --> 36:24.880
I think the realities of
the security environment

36:24.880 --> 36:27.110
will create a natural convergence

36:27.110 --> 36:29.380
and give us these opportunities

36:29.380 --> 36:32.510
irrespective of what's
happening on the trade side.

36:32.510 --> 36:34.570
So I'm not saying that's what we want,

36:34.570 --> 36:39.000
but I think our interests
are very compelling

36:39.000 --> 36:41.310
and persuasive on the
defense and security side

36:41.310 --> 36:44.190
that I think we'll be
able to continue momentum

36:44.190 --> 36:45.920
even in that environment.

36:45.920 --> 36:47.850
- That is actually a consoling image

36:47.850 --> 36:48.800
because you're absolutely right.

36:48.800 --> 36:53.800
Japan offers a useful
example of the United States

36:53.930 --> 36:56.840
having faced the situation
before and having come out,

36:56.840 --> 36:58.625
both the United States
and Japan having come out

36:58.625 --> 36:59.720
the better for it.

36:59.720 --> 37:01.269
So I hope we can actually end up

37:01.269 --> 37:02.730
in the same place with India.

37:02.730 --> 37:05.070
The last question I have
before I open it to the floor

37:05.070 --> 37:09.240
is going into the two-plus-two,
how would you judge

37:09.240 --> 37:13.110
the health of the US in their
strategic relationship net-net

37:13.110 --> 37:16.630
taking into account all these
difficulties in some cases,

37:16.630 --> 37:18.700
opportunities and others?

37:18.700 --> 37:20.690
Where do you see us today?

37:20.690 --> 37:23.540
Do we have the foundations in place

37:23.540 --> 37:27.390
for building something
that is truly substantial

37:28.550 --> 37:30.790
for peace and security in the Indo-Pacific

37:30.790 --> 37:32.370
over the next decade?

37:32.370 --> 37:35.570
- Yeah, we're quite
bullish as a US government

37:35.570 --> 37:38.340
and at the Department of
Defense in particular.

37:38.340 --> 37:40.890
And it's really, and I
should've said this earlier,

37:42.120 --> 37:46.003
we're really the beneficiaries
of decades of great work.

37:46.880 --> 37:49.823
The Bush administration,
your contributions, Ashley,

37:51.360 --> 37:54.430
working through the civil nuclear deal,

37:54.430 --> 37:57.650
the Obama administration
particularly on the defense side,

37:57.650 --> 37:59.340
we used to sometimes refer to Ash Carter

37:59.340 --> 38:02.481
as the India desk officer when
he was Secretary of Defense.

38:02.481 --> 38:04.415
- He almost was.

38:04.415 --> 38:07.120
- But the creation of the
major defense partner concept

38:07.120 --> 38:09.250
coming in the Obama administration.

38:09.250 --> 38:14.250
And so this is sort of
evolutionary in its nature.

38:14.480 --> 38:17.100
But I think all that good
work, what it amounts to

38:17.100 --> 38:19.000
is the creation of that foundation

38:19.000 --> 38:21.243
you're talking about and asking about,

38:22.660 --> 38:26.690
I think would benefit from
leadership on both sides

38:26.690 --> 38:29.023
that are willing to take some risks,

38:31.480 --> 38:32.870
having articulated a vision,

38:32.870 --> 38:36.680
talk about how to
operationalize a strategy.

38:36.680 --> 38:39.903
So we're quite bullish, as I said.

38:41.190 --> 38:43.630
We'll be able to navigate
some of these challenges,

38:43.630 --> 38:46.200
I believe, and come out the other side

38:46.200 --> 38:48.500
with being able to say our administration

38:48.500 --> 38:51.200
continued the momentum that
the previous ones started.

38:52.563 --> 38:54.207
So I'm pretty optimistic.

38:54.207 --> 38:56.020
- Well, I wish you and your
colleagues all the best

38:56.020 --> 38:58.496
for the next couple of weeks

38:58.496 --> 38:59.673
as you'll have these conversations

38:59.673 --> 39:01.323
and for whatever comes after.

39:02.410 --> 39:05.890
I'm gonna open the floor to our guests.

39:05.890 --> 39:09.630
And if you could identify yourself

39:09.630 --> 39:12.470
and make the question or the comment

39:12.470 --> 39:14.402
sort of pointed and brief so I can give

39:14.402 --> 39:16.860
as many people a chance
that would be helpful.

39:16.860 --> 39:17.817
Yes, ma'am.

39:25.580 --> 39:27.970
- [Woman] How India is getting caught up

39:27.970 --> 39:30.150
in the sanctions against Russia,

39:30.150 --> 39:32.720
but you didn't talk as
much about the sanctions

39:32.720 --> 39:34.670
against Iran so I'm hoping you can give us

39:34.670 --> 39:37.480
a little bit more detail and how you plan

39:37.480 --> 39:39.130
to navigate those sanctions

39:39.130 --> 39:41.740
particularly with regards to oil.

39:41.740 --> 39:46.360
And I also wanted just to
press you in terms of CATSA

39:46.360 --> 39:49.465
on the purchase of the S-400.

39:49.465 --> 39:53.950
And does the US plan to seek a waiver

39:53.950 --> 39:57.541
for CATSA for the S-400 for India?

39:57.541 --> 40:01.913
And if yes or no, what is
the precedent that that sets?

40:03.573 --> 40:05.040
- Nice to see you face to face.

40:05.040 --> 40:06.453
We've had communication.

40:07.710 --> 40:10.040
I'm gonna to resist the urge
to talk more about Iran.

40:10.040 --> 40:13.387
As I said, I think we need
the opportunity to sit down

40:13.387 --> 40:18.040
with our Indian friends at this high level

40:18.040 --> 40:21.210
and have a good exchange on where

40:21.210 --> 40:23.200
India thinks its interests are

40:23.200 --> 40:26.200
and the aspects of the
relationship with Iran

40:26.200 --> 40:29.430
that they feel they need
to protect or insulate

40:29.430 --> 40:32.650
and we'll be able to explain
our point of view on that.

40:32.650 --> 40:36.140
But again it's a
relatively new development

40:37.130 --> 40:41.440
within JCPOA and the potential imposition

40:41.440 --> 40:44.430
of sanctions as it relates to that.

40:44.430 --> 40:47.470
So I'll leave that for the future

40:47.470 --> 40:49.333
to talk about after the two-plus-two.

40:50.270 --> 40:54.567
On Russia, CATSA, S-400,

40:57.550 --> 40:59.480
obviously we have this legislation,

40:59.480 --> 41:02.610
CATSA, not because of
anything India's doing,

41:02.610 --> 41:05.220
anything we're doing, it's
because of Russian behavior.

41:05.220 --> 41:08.660
And I went through the
partial laundry list

41:08.660 --> 41:12.620
but the Congress felt
the need to take action

41:12.620 --> 41:16.040
and to demonstrate not
only in words and in spirit

41:16.040 --> 41:19.390
why we think this regimes
activities are so troublesome

41:19.390 --> 41:21.610
but to actually take concrete
action to try to have

41:21.610 --> 41:25.543
a consequence and punishment
for this behavior.

41:27.470 --> 41:30.280
I think most people acknowledge
it was flawed legislation

41:30.280 --> 41:32.570
for the reasons that some of our partners,

41:32.570 --> 41:35.690
friends and allies themselves might end up

41:35.690 --> 41:37.590
paying a price that was not intended.

41:37.590 --> 41:40.500
So Congress was very
good at working with us

41:40.500 --> 41:43.930
to create this waiver opportunity

41:43.930 --> 41:45.710
and now we have a little more flexibility

41:45.710 --> 41:47.380
for the secretary of state and President

41:47.380 --> 41:48.933
to make those determinations.

41:50.080 --> 41:53.200
I, as I said, I cannot sit
here today and tell you

41:53.200 --> 41:57.310
if India buys X then
the waiver will be used

41:57.310 --> 41:58.630
or it won't be used.

41:58.630 --> 42:02.940
I think S-400 in particular is a system

42:04.410 --> 42:07.180
that's particularly troubling
for a lot of reasons.

42:07.180 --> 42:11.660
And I think our strong preference,

42:11.660 --> 42:13.850
India is a friend, it's
a sovereign country,

42:13.850 --> 42:15.170
they'll make their own decisions,

42:15.170 --> 42:18.250
but our preference is to seek alternatives

42:18.250 --> 42:20.610
and see if we can be a partner to India

42:20.610 --> 42:22.640
in addressing those defense needs.

42:22.640 --> 42:25.240
If they choose to go down that route,

42:25.240 --> 42:27.616
like I said, I can't sit
here and tell you today

42:27.616 --> 42:29.550
that a waiver would necessarily be used.

42:29.550 --> 42:32.350
It would be a topic discussed
at the highest level

42:32.350 --> 42:34.708
of our government and they
would make some determination.

42:34.708 --> 42:38.375
(audience faintly speaking)

42:40.600 --> 42:44.240
Well, it'd be some
weighing of the concerns

42:44.240 --> 42:46.210
that that acquisition creates

42:46.210 --> 42:49.560
and how that could impact
a variety of things

42:49.560 --> 42:52.040
including the future of
our defense cooperation,

42:52.040 --> 42:54.420
it could put limitations on it,

42:54.420 --> 42:56.500
versus wanting the political space

42:56.500 --> 42:58.700
and the ability to build out
the strategic partnership

42:58.700 --> 43:01.083
with India at a more rapid pace.

43:02.230 --> 43:03.063
- Yes, sir.

43:05.780 --> 43:07.230
Just wait for the microphone.

43:11.280 --> 43:12.300
- [Mitsuo] Thank you for coming.

43:12.300 --> 43:15.450
My name is Mitsuo Nakai,
Reagan Foundation,

43:15.450 --> 43:16.533
Heritage Foundation.

43:19.497 --> 43:22.200
In my opinion, two of
the most important allies

43:22.200 --> 43:26.350
we have are Japan and India.

43:26.350 --> 43:27.590
No doubt about that.

43:27.590 --> 43:32.470
My question is do you envision

43:32.470 --> 43:37.470
trilateral summit type of
things in terms of security

43:38.542 --> 43:41.640
including economic issues?

43:41.640 --> 43:42.473
Thank you.

43:45.000 --> 43:47.500
- We do have trilateral interactions

43:47.500 --> 43:48.940
with US, Japan and India.

43:48.940 --> 43:53.600
I joined my State Department
colleagues earlier this year

43:53.600 --> 43:58.600
in Delhi for a trilateral
discussion at our level.

43:59.530 --> 44:02.420
Taking that to a higher level
is certainly a possibility

44:02.420 --> 44:06.850
because, as you say these
three great democracies

44:06.850 --> 44:10.860
align on quite a bit of issues,

44:10.860 --> 44:14.420
so we'll see about the
future of that interaction

44:14.420 --> 44:16.360
whether it's sustained at a high level

44:16.360 --> 44:18.010
and I think we'd be open to that.

44:24.060 --> 44:25.880
- [Kami] Yes, sir, my name is Kami Butt.

44:25.880 --> 44:27.850
I'm with the Pakistani Spectator.

44:27.850 --> 44:30.500
And you mentioned something
about giving some space

44:30.500 --> 44:33.870
to newly elected Pakistani
Prime Minister Imran Khan.

44:33.870 --> 44:36.760
Do you think that your
Department of Defense

44:36.760 --> 44:39.980
is willing to use its influence at IMF

44:39.980 --> 44:43.560
or other institution to give
Pakistan the necessarily loan

44:43.560 --> 44:48.073
that it need to prevent
its economy defaulting?

44:49.020 --> 44:52.890
As you know, Imran Khan seemed
to be a man of martial virtue

44:52.890 --> 44:55.630
but he has so many limitation.

44:55.630 --> 44:59.760
He really cannot print dollar;
only America can print.

44:59.760 --> 45:02.810
He cannot provide job
to million of young kids

45:02.810 --> 45:04.790
who are unemployed in this country.

45:04.790 --> 45:08.940
He cannot get money to pay
interest on its foreign debt.

45:08.940 --> 45:12.040
In other words, Pakistan seem to be bound

45:12.040 --> 45:15.670
to be collapsing very soon.

45:15.670 --> 45:19.230
So my second question is
in the case if it happen

45:19.230 --> 45:22.020
then what role do you perceive for India

45:22.020 --> 45:24.860
because no other country
has better intelligence,

45:24.860 --> 45:28.110
human intelligence about
Pakistan than India does.

45:28.110 --> 45:31.310
I know your department
has a very elaborate plan

45:31.310 --> 45:33.810
to recover Pakistani hundred atomic bomb

45:33.810 --> 45:36.030
if in the case Pakistan collapses.

45:36.030 --> 45:39.460
Does your department see
any important role for India

45:39.460 --> 45:42.135
to help your department
or help United States

45:42.135 --> 45:43.110
to cover those things?

45:43.110 --> 45:43.943
Thanks.

45:52.087 --> 45:53.910
- Upon returning to government in January,

45:53.910 --> 45:55.920
I was reminded, you no
longer have to answer

45:55.920 --> 45:58.340
hypothetical questions
and future questions,

45:58.340 --> 46:01.490
and so I think I'll heed that advice.

46:01.490 --> 46:03.200
There's a lot of hypotheticals there

46:03.200 --> 46:05.893
about future collapse, nuclear weapon.

46:07.471 --> 46:11.040
What I said about giving
him space was really

46:11.040 --> 46:13.943
in the context of the
India-Pakistan relationship.

46:14.840 --> 46:16.520
We'd certainly like to give him space

46:16.520 --> 46:18.910
to make the right decisions
on a variety of things,

46:18.910 --> 46:23.760
but I think our approach
of cutting assistance

46:23.760 --> 46:27.680
and pressuring Pakistan
on their relationship

46:27.680 --> 46:30.480
with the Taliban, persuading
them to come to the table,

46:30.480 --> 46:35.480
dealing with terrorist
networks that'll be sustained.

46:35.760 --> 46:38.820
When I say give space it's
not changing our approach

46:38.820 --> 46:42.980
or our policy, I really
mentioned it in the context

46:42.980 --> 46:46.403
of developing opportunities
between India and Pakistan.

46:47.901 --> 46:52.430
I don't have a good answer on the economic

46:53.950 --> 46:58.530
difficulties and challenges
that Pakistan finds itself in.

46:58.530 --> 47:02.900
What I can say is if you
look at other examples

47:02.900 --> 47:07.710
where countries went all-in
or largely in with China,

47:07.710 --> 47:09.770
the results have not
been particularly good

47:09.770 --> 47:11.857
and there's been an erosion of sovereignty

47:11.857 --> 47:14.150
and an erosion of control

47:15.130 --> 47:19.090
and there are many examples of that.

47:19.090 --> 47:23.590
So if our friends in
Pakistan wanna talk about

47:23.590 --> 47:26.950
a way out of that or wanna talk about ways

47:26.950 --> 47:30.160
to strengthen their
economy and deal with that

47:30.160 --> 47:31.700
I'm sure we'd be open to that

47:31.700 --> 47:34.530
and trying to work with Pakistan,

47:34.530 --> 47:36.120
work either bilaterally

47:36.120 --> 47:38.870
or through international institutions

47:38.870 --> 47:40.320
to try to get them on a better path.

47:40.320 --> 47:42.890
We're not interested in a failed Pakistan

47:42.890 --> 47:44.390
by any stretch of the imagination.

47:44.390 --> 47:47.580
So we want them to be successful,

47:47.580 --> 47:49.220
we want them to have sovereign control

47:49.220 --> 47:52.430
and not cede that to any
outside party including China

47:52.430 --> 47:55.596
and the economic peace is
probably gonna be key to that.

47:55.596 --> 47:59.263
(audience faintly speaking)

48:02.290 --> 48:03.190
- Thank you, Kami.

48:06.430 --> 48:07.362
Is that Seema?

48:07.362 --> 48:08.362
Yes, please.

48:10.868 --> 48:11.701
- [Seema] I'm Seema Sirohi.

48:11.701 --> 48:14.700
I'm a columnist for the
Economic Times in India.

48:14.700 --> 48:18.780
I wanted to press you further
on the question of S-400.

48:18.780 --> 48:23.060
Would the US be willing to offer something

48:24.350 --> 48:29.350
that India could bear if it
doesn't want India to buy S-400

48:29.710 --> 48:33.010
since China already has got deliveries,

48:33.010 --> 48:36.610
the first few deliveries on S-400?

48:36.610 --> 48:38.743
The other question is about the quad.

48:39.590 --> 48:44.250
Do you detect a certain
hesitancy on part of India,

48:44.250 --> 48:48.150
because the prime minister
did not even mention it

48:48.150 --> 48:49.883
in his speech in Shangri-La?

48:54.920 --> 48:56.380
- Officials love questions that start

48:56.380 --> 48:57.590
with let me press you further

48:57.590 --> 48:59.663
'cause you thought you've addressed it.

49:03.430 --> 49:07.410
I think, let me just say
at a certain general level,

49:07.410 --> 49:09.810
yes, we're willing to talk to India about

49:09.810 --> 49:13.680
meeting defense requirements
and alternatives.

49:13.680 --> 49:16.880
There may not be an exact system

49:16.880 --> 49:21.340
that we can produce as
the back specifications

49:21.340 --> 49:23.810
and capabilities, but you have systems

49:23.810 --> 49:27.030
not to have systems, not to have platforms

49:27.030 --> 49:29.460
but to address defense requirements

49:29.460 --> 49:31.070
and needed capabilities.

49:31.070 --> 49:34.650
So I can say we'd certainly be willing

49:34.650 --> 49:36.450
to enter into that
conversation with India.

49:36.450 --> 49:38.160
And we have.

49:38.160 --> 49:40.130
How we can be a good
partner and addressing

49:40.130 --> 49:41.823
what their real requirements are.

49:43.950 --> 49:46.300
In terms of the quad, I come at this

49:46.300 --> 49:48.780
from a little different perspective.

49:48.780 --> 49:50.530
My perspective, I believe the quad

49:50.530 --> 49:53.920
was born on December 26th, 2004

49:53.920 --> 49:57.490
which was the day of the great
tsunami in Southeast Asia

49:57.490 --> 49:59.840
when the four countries that responded

49:59.840 --> 50:03.510
were India, Australia,
Japan and the United States.

50:03.510 --> 50:05.890
And we responded because
we're like-minded,

50:05.890 --> 50:10.100
we saw the tragedy unfolding
and felt compelled to act.

50:10.100 --> 50:14.940
We had capability to bring to
bear in a quick timely fashion

50:14.940 --> 50:17.943
and we had a willingness to
cooperate with one another.

50:18.960 --> 50:22.750
So in a way it was born in
reality and in an operation

50:22.750 --> 50:25.830
before it was even born in concept.

50:25.830 --> 50:30.377
I think now we're talking about
this as a potential vehicle

50:32.820 --> 50:35.730
for how we can address
a range of interests

50:35.730 --> 50:37.390
in the Indo-Pacific.

50:37.390 --> 50:39.820
And I think we find general receptivity

50:39.820 --> 50:42.700
particularly where we're
talking about economic issues

50:42.700 --> 50:44.980
and development assistance and the like

50:46.561 --> 50:48.280
but I think it'll move at a pace and scope

50:48.280 --> 50:50.310
that all four are comfortable with

50:50.310 --> 50:53.710
and that's been the limiting
factor historically, right?

50:53.710 --> 50:58.700
And sometimes it's us,
sometimes it's been Japan,

50:58.700 --> 51:00.290
it's been Australia, it's been India

51:00.290 --> 51:02.420
so I think we'll work through all that.

51:02.420 --> 51:05.860
And if you stare at an iceberg

51:05.860 --> 51:07.650
you don't necessarily see the movement,

51:07.650 --> 51:09.950
but if you look away and look back again

51:09.950 --> 51:12.890
I can see how this quad
discussion has moved forward

51:12.890 --> 51:14.650
and moving in the right direction.

51:14.650 --> 51:17.683
Maybe not at the pace we like,
but I think we'll get there.

51:19.460 --> 51:20.293
- Yes.

51:27.270 --> 51:28.610
- [Rajiv] My name is Rajiv Goel.

51:28.610 --> 51:31.050
I started the defense practice

51:31.050 --> 51:34.120
for one of India's
largest industrial groups

51:34.120 --> 51:35.940
called the Adani Group.

51:35.940 --> 51:37.263
My question is two-fold.

51:38.550 --> 51:40.400
India is a democracy.

51:40.400 --> 51:43.860
And the longevity of the
administration of the party

51:43.860 --> 51:46.740
is really dependent upon
the local economics.

51:46.740 --> 51:50.350
And India is going through a
massive issue of employment

51:51.250 --> 51:54.080
so if any strategy needs to be succeed

51:54.080 --> 51:56.630
between the US and India it has to include

51:56.630 --> 51:59.600
the local perspectives as well, okay?

51:59.600 --> 52:01.120
You have comments on that?

52:01.120 --> 52:03.640
The second is that a lot of the forces

52:03.640 --> 52:07.943
driving the geopolitical climate is China.

52:08.830 --> 52:12.990
And China's relations with
India have never been good.

52:12.990 --> 52:17.400
But Russia and Iran are
gravitating towards China

52:17.400 --> 52:21.930
because they see certain,
how should I say,

52:21.930 --> 52:25.833
access materializing within
the geopolitical framework.

52:27.230 --> 52:32.230
So how do you plan to
counter the Chinese threat,

52:32.380 --> 52:33.680
if you wanna call it that.

52:33.680 --> 52:35.520
It's not really a threat,

52:35.520 --> 52:38.800
and unfortunately China has
a copy, copy-paste model,

52:38.800 --> 52:41.520
and the biggest Achilles'
heel in my personal opinion

52:41.520 --> 52:45.273
is their inability to be innovative,

52:46.340 --> 52:48.680
which is where the US really thrives.

52:48.680 --> 52:51.860
So how are you going to
be able to use India,

52:51.860 --> 52:53.307
because India is very
strategically located

52:53.307 --> 52:56.990
particularly with respect
to the Strait of Malacca.

52:56.990 --> 52:59.430
And by alienating Iran,
the other choke point,

52:59.430 --> 53:02.470
which is the Strait of Hormuz has now

53:02.470 --> 53:04.370
well-materialized, in my opinion.

53:04.370 --> 53:05.990
So just your comments on that

53:05.990 --> 53:07.670
would be interesting in knowing.

53:07.670 --> 53:09.803
So two-fold, the local.

53:09.803 --> 53:11.490
- Well the second one first.

53:11.490 --> 53:14.923
You said, how are we gonna use India to--

53:14.923 --> 53:16.286
- No.
- Well that's what you said.

53:16.286 --> 53:17.119
(audience speaking faintly)

53:17.119 --> 53:20.173
Okay, well I was gonna, you
went where I was gonna go.

53:22.240 --> 53:26.920
This is a subject of intense
discussion at the highest level

53:26.920 --> 53:29.080
between the United States and India.

53:29.080 --> 53:31.913
And we've got to navigate

53:31.913 --> 53:34.223
all those complexities.

53:35.440 --> 53:36.750
That's being a practitioner.

53:36.750 --> 53:39.720
That's the real world that you live in.

53:39.720 --> 53:41.350
You've gotta develop policies,

53:41.350 --> 53:44.090
you've gotta come up with activities.

53:44.090 --> 53:46.130
And so we'll work through all that.

53:46.130 --> 53:48.220
It is complex, there's no doubt.

53:48.220 --> 53:52.720
And we note that India has a
better relationship with China

53:52.720 --> 53:56.350
this year than last, which
is last was pretty bad,

53:56.350 --> 53:58.400
and they've talked about
having a normal year.

53:58.400 --> 53:59.700
We support that.

53:59.700 --> 54:01.890
By the way, we want a good
relationship with China, too.

54:01.890 --> 54:05.060
And I accompanied
Secretary Mattis to Beijing

54:05.060 --> 54:06.750
where they had very good discussions.

54:06.750 --> 54:09.070
We had clear areas of disagreement

54:09.070 --> 54:12.340
over the South China Sea
and Taiwan and other issues,

54:12.340 --> 54:16.150
but we ultimately all want a more stable

54:16.150 --> 54:17.980
constructive relationship with China.

54:17.980 --> 54:22.980
So we'll work with our friends
in India to try to navigate

54:23.050 --> 54:24.920
all that and develop common approaches.

54:24.920 --> 54:26.760
And I don't know that I can get into much

54:26.760 --> 54:29.150
specificity at this
point, but I'm confident

54:29.150 --> 54:31.000
we can work through it and get there.

54:32.400 --> 54:36.190
Your first question on local
politics, domestic politics

54:36.190 --> 54:38.480
being supportive of the relationship,

54:38.480 --> 54:42.020
I think all we can do, as
a partner, is articulate

54:42.020 --> 54:43.930
why we think the
relationship is important,

54:43.930 --> 54:48.810
what we think the capacity to
work with one another may be,

54:48.810 --> 54:53.740
and articulate a future
vision for the relationship.

54:53.740 --> 54:55.910
I don't think we can spend a lot of time

54:55.910 --> 54:57.920
trying to game out
local politics in India.

54:57.920 --> 55:00.500
We'll have to leave that to the
central government in Delhi.

55:00.500 --> 55:02.670
But I think we can make a compelling case

55:02.670 --> 55:05.436
at the national level,
while this is important,

55:05.436 --> 55:09.540
and we'll rely on our friends
in the national government

55:09.540 --> 55:11.593
to deal with the local
politics for the most part.

55:11.593 --> 55:13.517
(audience talking faintly)

55:13.517 --> 55:14.350
Sure.

55:33.633 --> 55:34.716
- [Rajiv] Pens cannot be isolated

55:34.716 --> 55:36.980
from the economics of the country.

55:36.980 --> 55:37.813
That's all I was saying.

55:37.813 --> 55:40.390
So, therefore, if there has
to be a lasting relationship,

55:40.390 --> 55:43.270
there has to be an economic element to it

55:43.270 --> 55:45.450
as well as a defense element
which is what you were,

55:45.450 --> 55:46.780
right, which is where we started.

55:46.780 --> 55:48.890
So I'd just like you to amplify because,

55:48.890 --> 55:52.970
ultimately, it's the
grassroots that will define

55:52.970 --> 55:54.130
the longevity of the strategy,

55:54.130 --> 55:58.693
because jobs, technology,
industry is not really,

55:59.920 --> 56:02.160
India is basically a consumption story

56:02.160 --> 56:04.200
but we are not supporting that consumption

56:04.200 --> 56:08.150
with local investment in industry.

56:08.150 --> 56:12.600
So there has to be some element
in your discussions, I feel.

56:12.600 --> 56:15.770
- Well, you're talking about issues

56:15.770 --> 56:18.040
that are sort of beyond my
purview at the Pentagon.

56:18.040 --> 56:21.130
I can agree with you that
the economic component

56:21.130 --> 56:23.010
needs to be strong and that that's key

56:23.010 --> 56:26.870
to sustaining broad
support at local levels

56:26.870 --> 56:28.820
for relationship going into the future.

56:28.820 --> 56:30.490
I can tell you one of the
reasons we're interested

56:30.490 --> 56:32.760
in expanding defense
industrial cooperation,

56:32.760 --> 56:36.210
why we have programs, for example,

56:36.210 --> 56:38.490
we have what used to be DUIx,

56:38.490 --> 56:42.070
now DIU 'cause we're no
longer experimenting.

56:42.070 --> 56:43.390
We may have the opportunity to have

56:43.390 --> 56:46.330
an Indian liaison officer there.

56:46.330 --> 56:47.930
We're looking at ways to expand

56:47.930 --> 56:49.800
defense industrial cooperation

56:49.800 --> 56:52.410
so that we can be seen on the defense side

56:52.410 --> 56:57.410
as contributing possibly to
positive development in India.

56:57.440 --> 57:02.440
And we see it from the defense
perspective, joint projects,

57:03.380 --> 57:06.310
collaboration between defense industry

57:06.310 --> 57:08.560
creates better opportunities
for interoperability

57:08.560 --> 57:10.440
which is then enabling for training

57:10.440 --> 57:12.770
and exercising and so on and so forth.

57:12.770 --> 57:16.630
But there's clearly a
domestic benefit for India

57:16.630 --> 57:19.210
if we're involved in that
kind of collaboration.

57:19.210 --> 57:22.130
So from the Defense Department,

57:22.130 --> 57:25.450
I can only appreciate your comment

57:25.450 --> 57:27.230
and say that I agree it's important,

57:27.230 --> 57:29.860
but I better leave that
to my colleagues elsewhere

57:29.860 --> 57:33.300
in government to really
focus and drill down on.

57:33.300 --> 57:34.133
- Yes, sir.

57:36.140 --> 57:38.066
- Thank you, Randy, for doing this.

57:38.066 --> 57:39.810
(clears throat) Sorry.

57:39.810 --> 57:41.860
My name is Donghui Yu

57:41.860 --> 57:44.370
with China Review News
Agency of Hong Kong.

57:44.370 --> 57:48.080
Randy, in term of the military presence

57:48.080 --> 57:52.820
and deployment in the
area, how would you compare

57:52.820 --> 57:57.770
Trump administrations
in Indo-Pacific strategy

57:57.770 --> 58:00.073
and Obama administration's
Asia rebalancing strategy?

58:03.090 --> 58:04.410
How would you compare these two?

58:04.410 --> 58:09.410
Is there any differences or similarities?

58:09.730 --> 58:10.680
Thank you.
- Sure.

58:12.570 --> 58:14.320
When I was part of the loyal opposition

58:14.320 --> 58:17.490
in the Obama administration,
I was always supportive

58:17.490 --> 58:20.410
of the so called pivot or rebalance.

58:20.410 --> 58:21.610
I'm not sure they ever landed

58:21.610 --> 58:23.030
on how they were gonna brand that.

58:23.030 --> 58:26.840
But the pivot, rebalance
because I certainly agree

58:26.840 --> 58:29.600
that the Pacific was a priority

58:29.600 --> 58:32.150
and over time that should be reflected

58:32.150 --> 58:36.030
in our defense posture
and our capabilities

58:36.030 --> 58:38.770
and I think the Obama
administration did things

58:38.770 --> 58:40.550
to move us in that direction.

58:40.550 --> 58:44.000
I think one of the
biggest advantages we have

58:44.000 --> 58:46.770
is we've got Congress now resourcing

58:46.770 --> 58:49.670
the Department of Defense
at a better level.

58:49.670 --> 58:52.110
Obama administration was
trying to do all this

58:52.110 --> 58:54.840
during sequestration, which was damn hard,

58:54.840 --> 58:59.120
because not only are the
real resources not there,

58:59.120 --> 59:02.450
there's also the perception
that that sequestration

59:02.450 --> 59:06.403
created in the region, would our uptick

59:07.660 --> 59:09.820
through the pivot or
rebalance be sustainable,

59:09.820 --> 59:12.270
durable given budgetary
constraints, et cetera.

59:12.270 --> 59:16.050
So we've got Congress fully committed

59:16.050 --> 59:18.540
to resourcing our defense needs.

59:18.540 --> 59:19.720
We've got a very good uptick.

59:19.720 --> 59:22.100
We wanna be good stewards of
that and do the right thing

59:22.100 --> 59:25.240
and prove that we're worthy
and that there's payoff

59:25.240 --> 59:26.520
for the American taxpayer

59:26.520 --> 59:28.230
and that's what we're looking to do.

59:28.230 --> 59:31.380
We may not be resourced at
the same level every year

59:31.380 --> 59:33.480
but we've got very good
support from the Congress

59:33.480 --> 59:37.100
through programs like
Maritime Security Initiative,

59:37.100 --> 59:38.720
which is a capacity-building effort

59:38.720 --> 59:40.550
throughout Southeast Asia,

59:40.550 --> 59:43.350
other programs of similar nature.

59:43.350 --> 59:46.050
So I think that's our biggest advantage.

59:46.050 --> 59:48.470
We're really working hand
in glove with Congress

59:48.470 --> 59:49.853
to resource this effort.

59:52.180 --> 59:57.180
- Deepa.

59:57.585 --> 59:59.350
- [Deepa] Deepa Ollapally
from Sigur Center

59:59.350 --> 01:00:01.053
for Asian Studies GWU.

01:00:02.480 --> 01:00:05.580
One of the centerpieces of
course of the upcoming dialogue

01:00:05.580 --> 01:00:10.580
is the Indo-Pacific, and
I wanted to raise the,

01:00:11.120 --> 01:00:15.520
one simmering crisis that's
been going on since February

01:00:15.520 --> 01:00:18.210
in the Indo-Pacific,
and that's the Maldives.

01:00:18.210 --> 01:00:20.840
And it seems to me that
some of the concerns

01:00:20.840 --> 01:00:23.960
that you raised about free and open

01:00:23.960 --> 01:00:26.090
all come together in the Maldives

01:00:26.090 --> 01:00:30.560
given that there's cruel and
authoritarian government.

01:00:30.560 --> 01:00:35.560
Chinese have basically
overtaken rather starkly

01:00:35.890 --> 01:00:38.570
India's long-standing political

01:00:38.570 --> 01:00:40.300
and strategic advantages there.

01:00:40.300 --> 01:00:43.550
And so it seems to be
having flipped pretty much

01:00:43.550 --> 01:00:47.790
including the Maldives
returning several helicopters

01:00:47.790 --> 01:00:49.330
to India and so forth.

01:00:49.330 --> 01:00:52.720
So my question is,

01:00:52.720 --> 01:00:55.840
is the Maldives of concern
to the United States?

01:00:55.840 --> 01:00:59.040
How much concerned are you on that?

01:00:59.040 --> 01:01:01.350
And what lessons, if
anything, have you taken away

01:01:01.350 --> 01:01:06.350
from India's action or not
action during this crisis

01:01:06.700 --> 01:01:08.810
which is you know still simmering

01:01:08.810 --> 01:01:10.730
given that there's election coming up

01:01:10.730 --> 01:01:12.690
in the end of September?

01:01:12.690 --> 01:01:17.690
So, and will that be on the
agenda and the upcoming talks?

01:01:17.880 --> 01:01:19.080
- Thank you for raising this.

01:01:19.080 --> 01:01:21.623
This is an issue of concern.

01:01:23.290 --> 01:01:25.270
And as you say, it's still simmering

01:01:25.270 --> 01:01:28.950
so I don't wanna go into great detail

01:01:28.950 --> 01:01:32.660
or specificity about potential responses

01:01:32.660 --> 01:01:36.180
'cause it is a dynamic
situation to some extent.

01:01:36.180 --> 01:01:40.210
I think we will, we have
been discussing this

01:01:40.210 --> 01:01:43.120
with our friends in India and very well.

01:01:43.120 --> 01:01:45.523
It may come up at the two-plus-two.

01:01:46.640 --> 01:01:50.360
But I think a number of
things you can count on,

01:01:50.360 --> 01:01:54.150
we need to shine a light
on what's happening there

01:01:55.900 --> 01:01:59.440
because I don't think it's
well-understood or well-known

01:01:59.440 --> 01:02:01.410
outside of small circles of people

01:02:01.410 --> 01:02:03.590
who deal with these
issues, but there should be

01:02:03.590 --> 01:02:05.690
broader concern because it's not only

01:02:05.690 --> 01:02:07.660
about the unfortunate people there

01:02:07.660 --> 01:02:10.010
who have seen judges thrown in jail,

01:02:10.010 --> 01:02:14.103
opposition leaders jailed or exiled.

01:02:15.236 --> 01:02:19.490
It's a matter of a
broader regional problem

01:02:19.490 --> 01:02:22.090
when you fold in the China piece to that.

01:02:22.090 --> 01:02:24.000
They don't have any particular concern

01:02:24.000 --> 01:02:28.230
about freedom or political liberties there

01:02:28.230 --> 01:02:29.480
and the future of the people there.

01:02:29.480 --> 01:02:34.030
They have concerns about their
own influence and access.

01:02:34.030 --> 01:02:37.040
So that, we need to
shine a light on all that

01:02:37.040 --> 01:02:40.100
and bring in the experiences of others

01:02:40.100 --> 01:02:42.890
and look at Djibouti, look at Sri Lanka,

01:02:42.890 --> 01:02:46.000
look at other examples where countries

01:02:47.380 --> 01:02:49.830
brought the Chinese in
under certain circumstance,

01:02:49.830 --> 01:02:52.140
certain conditions and
certain understandings

01:02:52.140 --> 01:02:53.930
and that quickly evolved in a direction

01:02:53.930 --> 01:02:56.620
where China was exerting undue influence

01:02:56.620 --> 01:03:00.310
and eroding the sovereignty
of countries in question.

01:03:00.310 --> 01:03:01.570
Now the leader may not care.

01:03:01.570 --> 01:03:06.080
He may be making a deal that's
gonna financially benefit him

01:03:06.080 --> 01:03:09.420
and ensure that he can
maintain political control,

01:03:09.420 --> 01:03:12.270
but I suspect the people
would care greatly.

01:03:12.270 --> 01:03:15.030
So that's why shining a
light is still important.

01:03:15.030 --> 01:03:17.400
We saw in Vanuatu, for example,

01:03:17.400 --> 01:03:19.680
when stories started to emerge

01:03:19.680 --> 01:03:22.440
about the Chinese negotiating for a base.

01:03:22.440 --> 01:03:24.530
There was a backlash there.

01:03:24.530 --> 01:03:26.470
So shining a light on that is important.

01:03:26.470 --> 01:03:30.490
Beyond that, looking
at particular measures

01:03:30.490 --> 01:03:32.490
and things in the toolkit looking at

01:03:32.490 --> 01:03:34.220
what we might be able to do on visas,

01:03:34.220 --> 01:03:35.870
looking at what we might be able to do

01:03:35.870 --> 01:03:40.570
on economic consequence.

01:03:40.570 --> 01:03:42.870
Those are all things that
are under consideration,

01:03:42.870 --> 01:03:46.390
but as you noted it's a
simmering dynamic situation

01:03:46.390 --> 01:03:48.893
so I wouldn't go into a lot
of detail at this point.

01:03:54.200 --> 01:03:55.740
- [Phoenix] Hi, I'm Phoenix Huang

01:03:55.740 --> 01:03:57.310
with Hong Kong Phoenix TV.

01:03:57.310 --> 01:03:59.380
Nice to see you again, Mr. Schriver.

01:03:59.380 --> 01:04:00.870
So I have a question.

01:04:00.870 --> 01:04:04.138
Could you please give us
a broader picture about

01:04:04.138 --> 01:04:06.270
how does the US and India

01:04:06.270 --> 01:04:09.280
military cooperation moved forward,

01:04:09.280 --> 01:04:12.430
and specifically on military sales

01:04:12.430 --> 01:04:15.140
that we know that India wants,

01:04:15.140 --> 01:04:18.260
wants to get the US EMAL System

01:04:18.260 --> 01:04:20.900
which is the electronic catapult system

01:04:20.900 --> 01:04:23.460
for the aircraft carrier.

01:04:23.460 --> 01:04:26.660
And also how, likely, how possible

01:04:26.660 --> 01:04:30.280
does the US want to sell the F/A-18

01:04:32.207 --> 01:04:34.540
to India for their aircraft carrier?

01:04:34.540 --> 01:04:35.373
Thank you.

01:04:38.380 --> 01:04:41.590
- I think the security assistance aspect,

01:04:41.590 --> 01:04:43.730
defense sales aspect of our relationship

01:04:43.730 --> 01:04:46.890
is going to have an upward trajectory.

01:04:46.890 --> 01:04:50.387
We certainly wanna convey
to our Indian friends

01:04:50.387 --> 01:04:52.270
that we wanna be a partner of choice

01:04:52.270 --> 01:04:55.283
when it comes to their
defense and security needs.

01:04:56.220 --> 01:04:57.610
There are several

01:05:00.990 --> 01:05:03.310
prongs to that overall approach.

01:05:03.310 --> 01:05:05.580
We've gotta get these
enabling agreements in place.

01:05:05.580 --> 01:05:07.940
So there are certain
things you're talking about

01:05:07.940 --> 01:05:10.540
that we're not in a
position to do right now

01:05:10.540 --> 01:05:12.210
because the enabling
agreements aren't there.

01:05:12.210 --> 01:05:13.273
We need to do that.

01:05:14.230 --> 01:05:19.000
We need to make clear where we can provide

01:05:19.000 --> 01:05:22.200
capability and alternatives to
what they're considering now

01:05:22.200 --> 01:05:24.360
and we had a previous discussion

01:05:24.360 --> 01:05:26.230
about their air defense needs

01:05:26.230 --> 01:05:29.360
so clarifying what we
can do as an alternative

01:05:29.360 --> 01:05:31.480
and being a good partner there.

01:05:31.480 --> 01:05:34.320
We need to build confidence
and trust over time.

01:05:34.320 --> 01:05:38.700
So we've gone from zero defense sales,

01:05:38.700 --> 01:05:39.740
I forget the exact timeline,

01:05:39.740 --> 01:05:42.603
a decade ago or so to $18 billion.

01:05:43.500 --> 01:05:47.310
But we're still growing,
comfortable with one another,

01:05:47.310 --> 01:05:51.950
learning about our very complex FMS system

01:05:51.950 --> 01:05:56.293
and how we support those programs.

01:05:57.603 --> 01:06:01.460
So again I think the
trajectory will be upward.

01:06:01.460 --> 01:06:03.330
I don't wanna get into specific details

01:06:03.330 --> 01:06:04.963
about the systems you're asking about.

01:06:04.963 --> 01:06:08.350
That'll all be discussed
and worked through.

01:06:08.350 --> 01:06:11.290
I think on the on the
exercise training side,

01:06:11.290 --> 01:06:13.210
we're gonna see an
uptick in the, as I said,

01:06:13.210 --> 01:06:15.960
the complexity scope of those exercises

01:06:15.960 --> 01:06:18.020
and our ability to do that

01:06:18.020 --> 01:06:19.940
in a multilateral environment as well,

01:06:19.940 --> 01:06:22.430
bringing in other countries
to those exercises.

01:06:22.430 --> 01:06:26.220
So overall we're very
bullish, as I said earlier,

01:06:26.220 --> 01:06:29.020
and defense security cooperation
will be a part of that.

01:06:37.320 --> 01:06:39.937
- [Ramesh] Yeah, my name
is Ramesh Dishpande.

01:06:39.937 --> 01:06:40.770
One question.

01:06:40.770 --> 01:06:44.050
Today's Wall Street
Journal carries an article

01:06:44.050 --> 01:06:47.520
saying that both China and
Russia are working hard

01:06:48.360 --> 01:06:51.610
to surpass US conventional
defense capacity,

01:06:51.610 --> 01:06:55.673
now they want to create
almost equal situation there.

01:06:56.520 --> 01:06:58.460
And there the element of space defense

01:06:58.460 --> 01:07:01.210
is assuming a lot of (mumbles) with China.

01:07:01.210 --> 01:07:03.640
India has made good
progress on the space side,

01:07:03.640 --> 01:07:04.970
okay, they're going good.

01:07:04.970 --> 01:07:08.700
Do you see any potential for India and US

01:07:08.700 --> 01:07:12.960
to cooperate on developing
space-based defense strategy?

01:07:12.960 --> 01:07:14.070
Thank you.

01:07:14.070 --> 01:07:15.390
- Very good question.

01:07:15.390 --> 01:07:19.820
So first point I would make is you've

01:07:21.130 --> 01:07:24.500
articulated the main reason we produced

01:07:24.500 --> 01:07:26.600
the National Defense Strategy that we did.

01:07:27.670 --> 01:07:32.670
Pillar number one is to
make great power competition

01:07:33.780 --> 01:07:36.880
a priority on how we approach our defense,

01:07:36.880 --> 01:07:40.640
posture and requirements
and doctrine, et cetera

01:07:40.640 --> 01:07:43.153
and prepare to deal with fair competitors.

01:07:44.810 --> 01:07:47.500
Having that in our
National Defense Strategy

01:07:47.500 --> 01:07:50.920
is very empowering for
bureaucrats like me,

01:07:50.920 --> 01:07:54.480
but for our services, for
our combatant commands.

01:07:54.480 --> 01:07:56.080
So we're thinking long and hard

01:07:56.080 --> 01:08:00.360
about how to be prepared for whatever

01:08:00.360 --> 01:08:02.650
China and Russia may do
on the conventional side

01:08:02.650 --> 01:08:04.530
as well as the strategic side.

01:08:04.530 --> 01:08:08.350
So it's been an effort that has enjoyed

01:08:08.350 --> 01:08:10.290
very senior leadership.

01:08:10.290 --> 01:08:12.790
President Trump endorsed the
National Security Strategy

01:08:12.790 --> 01:08:13.623
which is talked about.

01:08:13.623 --> 01:08:16.140
China is a strategic competitor,

01:08:16.140 --> 01:08:18.260
Secretary Mattis'
National Defense Strategy

01:08:18.260 --> 01:08:20.010
and you'll see a steady flow of that,

01:08:20.010 --> 01:08:22.950
our National Military
Strategy will be coming out

01:08:22.950 --> 01:08:25.560
at some point in the
not-too-distant future.

01:08:25.560 --> 01:08:26.800
So that's the general point.

01:08:26.800 --> 01:08:30.020
The specific point, I think,
we'd be very interested

01:08:30.020 --> 01:08:35.020
in exploring the possibilities
in the area of space,

01:08:35.390 --> 01:08:38.787
I'm sure you're following
the developments on our side

01:08:38.787 --> 01:08:42.310
and the interest in
creating a space possibly,

01:08:45.550 --> 01:08:49.650
possibly a separate service
is what Secretary Mattis

01:08:49.650 --> 01:08:51.520
will discuss with the Congress.

01:08:51.520 --> 01:08:54.600
But a space force and a separate command

01:08:54.600 --> 01:08:59.500
is probably the interim step
that's being done for a reason.

01:08:59.500 --> 01:09:01.100
It's being done because we realize

01:09:01.100 --> 01:09:03.710
the growing challenges in space

01:09:03.710 --> 01:09:05.900
and having good partners with capability

01:09:05.900 --> 01:09:08.853
is truly gonna be of interest
to us as we go forward.

01:09:11.000 --> 01:09:11.833
- Yes.

01:09:14.914 --> 01:09:16.460
- [Su] Thank you, my name is Su Rin.

01:09:16.460 --> 01:09:18.900
US in the security firm in cyber force.

01:09:18.900 --> 01:09:23.900
Is is cyber security a
mutual topic of discussion

01:09:24.990 --> 01:09:26.720
that you plan to have in this two-plus-two

01:09:26.720 --> 01:09:28.773
or I guess in a similar forum?

01:09:30.390 --> 01:09:33.340
- Yeah, I don't know how specific

01:09:33.340 --> 01:09:36.210
or what level of detail we'd
get into on cyber security.

01:09:36.210 --> 01:09:40.400
But I think if you talk about
regional security challenges

01:09:40.400 --> 01:09:42.660
and you obviously gravitate towards

01:09:42.660 --> 01:09:46.550
some common shared concerns about China

01:09:46.550 --> 01:09:49.360
and North Korea for that matter,

01:09:49.360 --> 01:09:51.210
there's certainly a
cyber component to that.

01:09:51.210 --> 01:09:54.360
So it's something that we're,

01:09:54.360 --> 01:09:56.500
again looking broadly for partners

01:09:56.500 --> 01:09:58.300
who have not only the shared concerns

01:09:58.300 --> 01:10:02.750
but capabilities and ideas
about best practices.

01:10:02.750 --> 01:10:04.170
We need to do better on cyber.

01:10:04.170 --> 01:10:06.540
We're gonna have another
strategy paper coming out

01:10:06.540 --> 01:10:08.323
on cyber through the department.

01:10:09.270 --> 01:10:10.950
We have created a cyber command

01:10:10.950 --> 01:10:12.860
so again I think it's an area

01:10:12.860 --> 01:10:15.560
where we need strong
partners with good ideas

01:10:15.560 --> 01:10:18.880
and I think we'll be
compelled to talk about that

01:10:18.880 --> 01:10:20.290
either in this forum or elsewhere

01:10:20.290 --> 01:10:23.313
given the challenges we
face from China and Korea.

01:10:24.320 --> 01:10:25.288
- If I may just add to that.

01:10:25.288 --> 01:10:27.800
We've actually had a
dialogue under the rubric

01:10:27.800 --> 01:10:30.350
of Homeland Security for many years.

01:10:30.350 --> 01:10:32.420
But the interesting question to consider

01:10:32.420 --> 01:10:34.970
is whether there is a defense component

01:10:34.970 --> 01:10:38.380
particularly as our
efforts at interoperability

01:10:38.380 --> 01:10:41.948
and integration begin today
whether we need to bring that

01:10:41.948 --> 01:10:44.170
under the specific rubric of defense.

01:10:44.170 --> 01:10:45.350
So that's something to think about.

01:10:45.350 --> 01:10:46.570
- Yeah, I think there could be.

01:10:46.570 --> 01:10:48.093
And we were,

01:10:49.930 --> 01:10:51.500
the expression we were trying to fly

01:10:51.500 --> 01:10:52.720
while we were building the plane

01:10:52.720 --> 01:10:55.300
and this mean cyber is something

01:10:55.300 --> 01:11:00.300
that we aren't particularly
organized well for

01:11:01.230 --> 01:11:02.200
but we're trying to get better

01:11:02.200 --> 01:11:04.270
in the creation of Cyber Command

01:11:04.270 --> 01:11:07.380
and thinking of the
defense components of that

01:11:07.380 --> 01:11:09.347
has now positioned us, I
think, to talk to partners

01:11:09.347 --> 01:11:11.283
in the defense space about it.

01:11:26.420 --> 01:11:27.930
- [Sullivan] Hi, Sullivan Gassman.

01:11:27.930 --> 01:11:30.670
I'm with the International
Energy Partnership.

01:11:30.670 --> 01:11:33.740
You mentioned how important it is

01:11:33.740 --> 01:11:38.740
that we give space to India
given the, excuse me, Pakistan,

01:11:39.380 --> 01:11:42.060
given their recent
elections on certain areas.

01:11:42.060 --> 01:11:46.350
I actually wanted to ask you
a bit about how our strategy

01:11:46.350 --> 01:11:49.050
in India can be affected
by our own elections

01:11:49.050 --> 01:11:53.670
just given that every four
years there's a chance

01:11:53.670 --> 01:11:55.630
our leadership, who
determines our approach

01:11:55.630 --> 01:11:57.400
and meeting our objectives and even the

01:11:57.400 --> 01:11:59.430
objectives themselves can change.

01:11:59.430 --> 01:12:01.270
So yeah, I just wanted to ask you a bit

01:12:01.270 --> 01:12:06.270
about how that timeline
during Bush to Obama,

01:12:06.290 --> 01:12:08.563
Obama and Trump affects your strategy.

01:12:10.460 --> 01:12:12.083
- Well, where I said it doesn't,

01:12:12.083 --> 01:12:14.200
it doesn't enter in the calculus much

01:12:14.200 --> 01:12:17.050
'cause we've seen consistency,

01:12:17.050 --> 01:12:19.700
understanding the value
of this relationship

01:12:19.700 --> 01:12:22.160
and trying to really push the envelope

01:12:22.160 --> 01:12:24.053
of where the potentials are.

01:12:25.450 --> 01:12:27.850
And I would add, in Congress, one of the,

01:12:27.850 --> 01:12:30.133
it used to be the largest,
I don't know if it still is.

01:12:30.133 --> 01:12:34.640
It's the largest caucus in
Congress is the India caucus,

01:12:34.640 --> 01:12:35.860
and it's bipartisan.

01:12:35.860 --> 01:12:40.200
And I've participated in
some discussions with them

01:12:40.200 --> 01:12:42.150
and with Secretary Mattis.

01:12:42.150 --> 01:12:45.670
And when you go into one of those meetings

01:12:45.670 --> 01:12:48.450
it's standing remotely.

01:12:48.450 --> 01:12:52.320
So that leads me to think that
this is not a partisan issue,

01:12:52.320 --> 01:12:55.070
it's not a one administration
versus another issue.

01:12:55.070 --> 01:12:57.140
There's large consensus
in the United States

01:12:57.140 --> 01:12:59.530
about wanting to build
this relationship out

01:12:59.530 --> 01:13:01.950
and gives me confidence that we do that

01:13:01.950 --> 01:13:04.843
no matter the outcome of future elections.

01:13:04.843 --> 01:13:06.450
- And the same is true in India as well,

01:13:06.450 --> 01:13:09.363
which is good reason for, yes.

01:13:15.020 --> 01:13:16.270
- [Benjamin] Thank you very much.

01:13:16.270 --> 01:13:19.430
Benjamin Tur, no current affiliation.

01:13:19.430 --> 01:13:21.780
Could you say something about

01:13:22.770 --> 01:13:26.400
your comment on Iran about

01:13:27.250 --> 01:13:30.620
possible US collaborate,

01:13:30.620 --> 01:13:35.620
US-India collaboration or
lack of it in the Middle East?

01:13:36.400 --> 01:13:39.923
I'm thinking specifically of Egypt,

01:13:41.400 --> 01:13:45.973
Palestine, Israel, Syria, Turkey.

01:13:48.183 --> 01:13:52.300
- Yeah, I think the conversations

01:13:52.300 --> 01:13:54.140
that I've been involved
in the preparations

01:13:54.140 --> 01:13:57.670
we're making have largely
focused on the Indo-Pacific.

01:13:57.670 --> 01:14:02.510
I think Secretary Mattis, Secretary Pompeo

01:14:02.510 --> 01:14:04.580
obviously have global responsibilities

01:14:04.580 --> 01:14:07.530
and think globally in a
way that I don't always do

01:14:07.530 --> 01:14:11.050
and as a assistant secretary
with regional responsibilities.

01:14:11.050 --> 01:14:14.300
So I would assume if
those topics do come up

01:14:14.300 --> 01:14:18.740
at the two-plus-two or beyond
we would have interested

01:14:18.740 --> 01:14:21.000
parties on our side to
have that discussion,

01:14:21.000 --> 01:14:24.130
because we see the US-India relationship

01:14:24.130 --> 01:14:28.510
is really grounded by shared
vision, shared interest

01:14:28.510 --> 01:14:33.510
come from two large democracies.

01:14:33.630 --> 01:14:38.190
So if we can partner with
one another in those areas

01:14:38.190 --> 01:14:39.690
I'm sure our leadership
would be interested

01:14:39.690 --> 01:14:40.990
in having that discussion.

01:14:41.920 --> 01:14:43.300
- We're gonna take one last question

01:14:43.300 --> 01:14:45.200
and that goes to the young lady there.

01:14:48.639 --> 01:14:49.472
- [Katie] Thank you.

01:14:49.472 --> 01:14:51.830
Katie Wong with NTDTV.

01:14:51.830 --> 01:14:54.530
Recently, DOD released the annual

01:14:54.530 --> 01:14:56.954
congressional report on China.

01:14:56.954 --> 01:14:58.810
This report seems quite different

01:14:58.810 --> 01:15:01.600
from the reports we have seen before.

01:15:01.600 --> 01:15:04.360
So can you share more of your thoughts

01:15:04.360 --> 01:15:06.430
while preparing for this report

01:15:06.430 --> 01:15:08.363
and the methodology and so on?

01:15:11.000 --> 01:15:13.680
- Yeah, I'm not sure I would've
shared the characterization

01:15:13.680 --> 01:15:16.680
but it's interesting that you note that.

01:15:16.680 --> 01:15:20.050
I think what's different is
China continues to develop,

01:15:20.050 --> 01:15:24.500
improve, change so our
reports reflect that.

01:15:24.500 --> 01:15:27.980
We try through the China
military power report

01:15:27.980 --> 01:15:32.980
to do a very objective
non-politicized description

01:15:33.340 --> 01:15:36.480
of what China is doing to
advance its capabilities.

01:15:36.480 --> 01:15:39.340
I'd date myself if I said
Joe Friday, just the facts,

01:15:39.340 --> 01:15:42.140
but that's, if you know that reference

01:15:42.140 --> 01:15:45.540
that's how we approach the
China military power report,

01:15:45.540 --> 01:15:46.463
just the facts.

01:15:47.450 --> 01:15:50.170
But I think the facts are
that China has been making

01:15:50.170 --> 01:15:52.550
rapid progress in certain areas.

01:15:52.550 --> 01:15:54.240
That's what you get when you devote

01:15:54.240 --> 01:15:56.660
double-digit increases
to your defense budget

01:15:56.660 --> 01:15:59.510
for over a decade now, almost two decades,

01:15:59.510 --> 01:16:01.770
you get improvement and
you get advancements.

01:16:01.770 --> 01:16:05.410
And so the power report looks at things

01:16:05.410 --> 01:16:06.700
that previous ones didn't.

01:16:06.700 --> 01:16:09.840
The hypersonic, the
developments in hypersonics,

01:16:09.840 --> 01:16:12.650
anti-ship ballistic missiles
and a range of things

01:16:12.650 --> 01:16:14.980
we didn't have to talk about a decade ago.

01:16:14.980 --> 01:16:17.550
So I wouldn't have
characterized it that way,

01:16:17.550 --> 01:16:19.477
I just would've said we're
reporting the facts here

01:16:19.477 --> 01:16:20.977
and that's what the facts are.

01:16:23.770 --> 01:16:26.540
- Randy, let me thank you for,

01:16:26.540 --> 01:16:27.780
not just taking the time,

01:16:27.780 --> 01:16:29.910
which of course I'm very thankful for,

01:16:29.910 --> 01:16:32.700
but for the extraordinary effort

01:16:32.700 --> 01:16:37.080
and commitment that you brought
to this position in the job

01:16:37.080 --> 01:16:40.510
at a time when there is considerable flux

01:16:40.510 --> 01:16:43.610
in the United States, in
the international community

01:16:43.610 --> 01:16:46.220
and to be able, in the face
of those circumstances,

01:16:46.220 --> 01:16:48.973
to sort of stay in the
course and do the work

01:16:48.973 --> 01:16:52.040
that you guys are doing
diligently, you and your staff.

01:16:52.040 --> 01:16:54.290
I do really wanna thank you as a citizen.

01:16:54.290 --> 01:16:55.302
- Thank you.

01:16:55.302 --> 01:16:57.510
- And of course I wanna thank
you on behalf of Carnegie

01:16:57.510 --> 01:16:59.150
for spending the morning here with us.

01:16:59.150 --> 01:17:02.450
You're welcome anytime
you wanna come back.

01:17:02.450 --> 01:17:05.160
- Well, let's do this again.
- And run the gauntlet again.

01:17:05.160 --> 01:17:06.530
- Let's do this again.

01:17:06.530 --> 01:17:07.863
- We would love that.
- Yeah.

01:17:07.863 --> 01:17:08.696
- We would love that.
- Appreciate it.

01:17:08.696 --> 01:17:11.270
- I thank all of you for
coming here this morning.

01:17:11.270 --> 01:17:12.113
Stay tuned.

01:17:13.210 --> 01:17:17.140
(audience applauding)

01:17:17.140 --> 01:17:18.690
Mr. Schriver, give us a preview

01:17:18.690 --> 01:17:21.210
of what is likely to
happen in the next week.

01:17:21.210 --> 01:17:23.360
And I'm sure at some point,
we'll have an opportunity

01:17:23.360 --> 01:17:25.970
to pick up the threads and
continue this discussion again.

01:17:25.970 --> 01:17:27.690
So thank you very much
and have a good day.

01:17:27.690 --> 01:17:29.690
Thank you.
- Thank you, appreciate it.

01:17:29.690 --> 01:17:31.577
Thank you.
- Let's do it again.

