WEBVTT 00:00.040 --> 00:02.320 let's let's just begin with your name 00:02.320 --> 00:04.320 and how you want to be identified . 00:06.840 --> 00:10.430 My name is Captain Mark Durkin from the 00:10.440 --> 00:13.010 british Royal Navy . You can call me 00:13.010 --> 00:14.843 Mark Captain , whatever you come 00:14.843 --> 00:17.010 through with . All right , that sounds 00:17.010 --> 00:19.010 good . Um Let's just start off with 00:19.010 --> 00:21.177 what are conditions like on the ground 00:21.177 --> 00:22.677 in Afghanistan right now ? 00:25.340 --> 00:28.240 Well , I think conditions remain remain 00:28.240 --> 00:30.430 challenging , but they're also remain 00:30.440 --> 00:33.300 opportunities at the moment in in 00:33.300 --> 00:35.860 Afghanistan , there are vast areas of 00:35.860 --> 00:37.860 the country where there are lots of 00:37.860 --> 00:40.220 positive developments taking place . 00:40.260 --> 00:43.000 But clearly there are areas notably in 00:43.000 --> 00:45.111 the south where there are still a lot 00:45.111 --> 00:47.350 of , a lot of challenges and security 00:47.360 --> 00:50.550 issues for us here in IsAF , but we 00:50.880 --> 00:54.270 continue to develop a security 00:54.270 --> 00:57.460 environment that will allow the 00:57.470 --> 01:00.850 governance of this country to improve 01:01.020 --> 01:03.040 and and stabilize and and that in 01:03.040 --> 01:06.190 itself will lead to social and economic 01:06.190 --> 01:08.540 development that we all wish to see . 01:08.550 --> 01:11.830 Um So that Afghanistan becomes a 01:11.830 --> 01:15.350 stable self sustaining country that can 01:15.350 --> 01:18.770 run its own program with its own 01:18.770 --> 01:20.826 successful government in authority . 01:21.440 --> 01:23.551 Well , what would you describe as the 01:23.551 --> 01:25.051 key challenges right now ? 01:28.640 --> 01:30.807 Well , I think the challenge is , as I 01:30.807 --> 01:33.330 say , primarily are focused in in the 01:33.330 --> 01:36.790 south . Um I think there's uh we're 01:36.790 --> 01:39.320 looking forward to the increased troops 01:39.320 --> 01:42.700 coming so that we can improve the 01:42.700 --> 01:44.700 security situation in the south . I 01:44.700 --> 01:48.050 think b the forces there have done a 01:48.060 --> 01:50.450 tremendous job , but I think as has 01:50.450 --> 01:53.370 been said by many illustrious um 01:53.380 --> 01:55.602 speakers recently , including President 01:55.602 --> 01:58.300 Obama and General Makin and that we've 01:58.300 --> 02:01.230 reached a stalemate situation in that 02:01.230 --> 02:03.590 area due to the number of troops that 02:03.590 --> 02:05.812 we have , and there's been a suggestion 02:05.812 --> 02:08.034 that perhaps we've been under resourced 02:08.034 --> 02:10.610 to a certain extent in that area . Now , 02:10.610 --> 02:13.170 with the increase in primarily american 02:13.170 --> 02:15.260 troops , we're going to be able to 02:15.270 --> 02:19.080 fully resource our , our efforts 02:19.090 --> 02:21.290 in that region , which will mean that 02:21.300 --> 02:24.170 we should now be able to develop the 02:24.180 --> 02:26.180 successful parts that have happened 02:26.180 --> 02:28.291 already . I mean , there are areas in 02:28.291 --> 02:31.210 the south um that already stabilised 02:31.220 --> 02:33.470 Gant's here would be an example that's 02:33.470 --> 02:35.470 developed into a thriving community 02:35.470 --> 02:38.000 over the last um six or nine months . 02:38.180 --> 02:40.236 And and there are several areas like 02:40.236 --> 02:42.458 that around the southern area . We want 02:42.458 --> 02:44.347 to widen and deepen that security 02:44.347 --> 02:46.840 experience now and join up those um 02:46.850 --> 02:49.610 those areas so that we can see social 02:49.610 --> 02:51.832 and economic development throughout the 02:51.832 --> 02:53.721 whole of the region . And then of 02:53.721 --> 02:55.970 course , we'd like to see the Afghan 02:55.970 --> 02:57.970 National Security Forces themselves 02:57.970 --> 03:00.220 take over the lead for those security , 03:00.220 --> 03:03.320 for that security so that we can we can 03:03.320 --> 03:06.270 move back and allow the development to 03:06.270 --> 03:09.680 take place and grow . There's certainly 03:09.680 --> 03:11.847 a lot of discussion about reaching out 03:11.847 --> 03:15.360 to certain parts of the taliban . 03:15.740 --> 03:19.490 How do you determine who could be kind 03:19.490 --> 03:22.670 of one over in terms of the taliban and 03:22.670 --> 03:24.837 who cannot be , what is it like on the 03:24.837 --> 03:27.990 ground ? How can you make those kind of 03:27.990 --> 03:28.990 distinctions . 03:31.940 --> 03:33.884 Well , I think primarily this is a 03:33.884 --> 03:36.051 question for for the Afghan government 03:36.051 --> 03:38.590 um that's a political issue uh and how 03:38.590 --> 03:42.250 they reach out and reconcile 03:42.260 --> 03:46.140 with the Taliban is largely well , it's 03:46.140 --> 03:49.900 entirely a an issue for for the Afghan 03:49.900 --> 03:52.830 government . I think it's no it's no 03:52.830 --> 03:56.080 secret that there there is a scale 03:56.090 --> 03:59.070 of insurgency in this country . And at 03:59.080 --> 04:02.460 one end of that scale , you've got 04:02.840 --> 04:06.600 ideologies that are very deeply felt 04:06.610 --> 04:10.260 and very heavily embedded in the 04:10.260 --> 04:12.316 culture and at the other scale . You 04:12.316 --> 04:14.316 maybe you have people who are , for 04:14.316 --> 04:17.340 economic reasons , just trying to make 04:17.340 --> 04:20.680 a living . Um and that may lead to two 04:20.690 --> 04:23.260 activity with the with the insurgents . 04:23.260 --> 04:25.620 And of course , there is the the drugs 04:25.620 --> 04:28.160 trade involved in in there as well , 04:28.170 --> 04:31.410 but it's uh in terms of engaging with 04:31.410 --> 04:33.521 the Afghan people , that is something 04:33.521 --> 04:35.632 for the Afghan government to do . And 04:35.632 --> 04:38.690 uh we will support the security around 04:38.690 --> 04:40.746 that as much as much as we can . But 04:40.746 --> 04:42.770 it's not something that I suffered 04:42.770 --> 04:45.960 directly involved in . I guess another 04:45.960 --> 04:48.670 thing I wanted to ask you about is the 04:48.680 --> 04:51.450 move in Pakistan and in the Swat Valley , 04:51.460 --> 04:54.220 we have reports that one of the 04:54.220 --> 04:57.260 spokespeople from the the Afghan 04:57.260 --> 04:59.680 president had said that Afghanistan is 04:59.680 --> 05:01.624 concerned about this deal that was 05:01.624 --> 05:04.250 reached in in in Pakistan and believes 05:04.250 --> 05:06.670 it might pose some kind of security 05:06.670 --> 05:09.810 problem in Afghanistan . What about 05:09.820 --> 05:11.720 that ? I mean , do you see on the 05:11.720 --> 05:14.060 border the repercussions of that kind 05:14.060 --> 05:16.171 of decision that was made in the Swat 05:16.171 --> 05:20.090 Valley . Well , again , I mean , 05:20.090 --> 05:22.034 that's a decision that's been made 05:22.034 --> 05:23.820 within the Pakistani political 05:23.820 --> 05:26.130 framework . And uh you'll be aware that 05:26.140 --> 05:29.140 ISIS mandate goes up to the border with 05:29.140 --> 05:31.196 Pakistan , but certainly does not go 05:31.196 --> 05:33.362 over the border . General Mckinnon has 05:33.362 --> 05:35.307 responsibility for what happens in 05:35.307 --> 05:38.710 Afghanistan , not um not in in uh 05:38.720 --> 05:41.020 Pakistan , but having having said that 05:41.030 --> 05:43.480 again from the statements that have 05:43.480 --> 05:46.300 been made about the new strategic 05:46.310 --> 05:49.790 review on the policy in Afghanistan and 05:49.800 --> 05:52.580 Pakistan , as it was named , um 05:52.590 --> 05:54.720 President Obama has made no secret of 05:54.720 --> 05:57.270 the fact that he sees Pakistan very 05:57.270 --> 06:00.130 much as part of the uh , the problem 06:00.130 --> 06:03.150 over here and that the whole region 06:03.150 --> 06:05.110 must be treated just as that as a 06:05.110 --> 06:07.490 region and rather than as individual 06:07.490 --> 06:10.330 nations . Um but decisions that are 06:10.330 --> 06:12.330 made within the sovereign nation of 06:12.330 --> 06:14.274 Pakistan , that's um that's uh for 06:14.274 --> 06:16.230 their government to make , to make 06:16.230 --> 06:18.640 those decisions . And as I say , I say , 06:18.640 --> 06:20.696 it doesn't have any any influence on 06:20.696 --> 06:22.810 that . What what is it like on the 06:22.810 --> 06:25.090 border ? What has it been like in those 06:25.090 --> 06:27.146 border regions this year ? How would 06:27.146 --> 06:29.368 you characterize what the fight is like 06:29.368 --> 06:31.479 on the ground in the border regions ? 06:34.340 --> 06:36.562 Well , so , yeah , we hear from time to 06:36.562 --> 06:38.860 time , there are various attacks on 06:38.870 --> 06:41.120 supply convoys , for example , coming 06:41.120 --> 06:43.064 across . But I mean , there's been 06:43.064 --> 06:44.953 nothing um that are substantially 06:44.953 --> 06:47.260 affected the flow of supplies . And I 06:47.260 --> 06:50.340 think the the commerce is developing 06:50.350 --> 06:52.461 all the time . That's not to say it's 06:52.461 --> 06:55.130 not without issues . It is , but there 06:55.130 --> 06:57.360 is still a very healthy flow going on . 06:57.540 --> 07:01.240 There is certainly better and better 07:01.240 --> 07:03.340 relations with the with the border 07:03.340 --> 07:05.118 authorities . And I know that's 07:05.118 --> 07:07.007 certainly something which General 07:07.007 --> 07:09.340 McKiernan has been working very hard at . 07:09.340 --> 07:11.229 And indeed his relations with his 07:11.229 --> 07:14.160 Pakistani opposite numbers is a very 07:14.160 --> 07:16.440 good one and a very and very close one . 07:16.450 --> 07:19.610 Um , so there's developments signs of 07:19.620 --> 07:22.030 improvement going on . But of course , 07:22.030 --> 07:24.141 as you know , it's a very it's a very 07:24.141 --> 07:27.080 long border and it's there's some very 07:27.090 --> 07:29.201 difficult terrain there and it's very 07:29.201 --> 07:32.000 difficult to police all of it extremely 07:32.000 --> 07:34.160 carefully . But I I believe that 07:34.170 --> 07:36.470 progress is being made and say as long 07:36.470 --> 07:38.870 as those relations continue to develop , 07:38.880 --> 07:40.936 then we can only look forward to the 07:40.936 --> 07:43.580 future with optimism . Uh , in what 07:43.590 --> 07:46.280 sense have you seen uh progress this 07:46.280 --> 07:49.250 year in in the border areas and how 07:49.250 --> 07:50.917 secure are the border areas ? 07:54.940 --> 07:57.410 Well , as I say , the tangible progress 07:57.410 --> 07:59.577 we can see is that there is there is a 07:59.577 --> 08:01.890 commercial flow running through , 08:01.900 --> 08:04.800 running through the various passes uh , 08:04.810 --> 08:07.930 that that that continues . And that has 08:07.930 --> 08:10.170 got to be a healthy sign . Um that if 08:10.170 --> 08:12.610 there's a commerce going on , there is 08:12.610 --> 08:14.721 goods have been transported backwards 08:14.721 --> 08:17.370 and forwards , then um say that there's 08:17.370 --> 08:19.481 got to be a good sign for the economy 08:19.481 --> 08:22.870 of both countries . And as I say , the 08:22.880 --> 08:25.350 border police , the Pakistan border 08:25.350 --> 08:29.260 police are developing in their 08:29.260 --> 08:32.790 capability and and the relations there 08:32.800 --> 08:35.030 develop all the time . But , you know , 08:35.040 --> 08:37.970 reiterate that uh , the mandate for 08:37.980 --> 08:40.580 General Mckinnon and for for for ISAF 08:40.580 --> 08:42.850 and NATO forces goes up to the border 08:42.850 --> 08:46.670 and not across it . What about the 08:46.670 --> 08:49.260 use of air power ? Um , what are the 08:49.260 --> 08:52.090 benefits of using air power and would 08:52.090 --> 08:54.257 have been the problems associated with 08:54.257 --> 08:58.180 it ? You're referring to 08:58.180 --> 09:00.069 air power in Afghanistan ? Yeah , 09:03.140 --> 09:05.140 Yeah . Well , I mean , clearly it's 09:05.140 --> 09:07.362 it's in purely military terms , that is 09:07.362 --> 09:10.980 the it is a significant advantage that 09:10.990 --> 09:13.360 we have over the over the insurgency . 09:13.360 --> 09:15.920 But that's not to say that we must be 09:15.930 --> 09:18.870 extremely careful with how we use that 09:18.870 --> 09:22.050 advantage . Um , it's a 09:22.060 --> 09:25.830 it's a a weapon that we can 09:25.840 --> 09:28.170 we can deploy as and when it's 09:28.170 --> 09:31.250 appropriate . Um , and it's not 09:31.250 --> 09:33.770 something which is half is going to shy 09:33.770 --> 09:36.070 away from having said that . You'll be 09:36.070 --> 09:38.630 aware of something called the tactical 09:38.630 --> 09:41.240 directive that General Makin has issued 09:41.240 --> 09:43.340 to all its forces , all his forces 09:43.340 --> 09:45.570 rather . And one of the central tenants 09:45.580 --> 09:48.520 of that particular direction is that 09:48.520 --> 09:51.190 any kind of force of these used should 09:51.200 --> 09:53.620 be proportional . So , in using air 09:53.620 --> 09:56.720 power , we consider very carefully how 09:56.720 --> 09:59.490 much air power is used and and if if 09:59.490 --> 10:02.130 indeed it results in a kinetic activity . 10:02.140 --> 10:05.570 Um , what sort of weapon weapon is used . 10:05.580 --> 10:07.691 I mean , I would I would just like to 10:07.691 --> 10:10.750 point out that the vast majority of um 10:10.840 --> 10:13.450 aircraft or flights that take place do 10:13.450 --> 10:15.850 not result in kinetic activity 10:16.240 --> 10:20.050 because we wish to be proportional with 10:20.050 --> 10:22.050 the response . And it's only in the 10:22.050 --> 10:24.250 very extreme cases where we have our 10:24.250 --> 10:27.790 own forces that are in imminent danger 10:27.790 --> 10:30.610 and they have no other options that we 10:30.610 --> 10:34.420 resort to using air power . Often the 10:34.430 --> 10:37.160 first option of choice is to actually 10:37.160 --> 10:39.900 withdraw from the situation . If troops 10:39.900 --> 10:42.630 are recorded a tick troops in contact , 10:42.820 --> 10:45.042 If troops were in contact , if they can 10:45.042 --> 10:47.264 withdraw themselves in that situation , 10:47.264 --> 10:49.264 then then that is what they'll do . 10:49.264 --> 10:51.487 It's only in extreme circumstances when 10:51.540 --> 10:53.762 there is no other option that they will 10:53.762 --> 10:56.550 call for air cover . And indeed in a 10:56.550 --> 10:59.250 lot of those situations , no ordinance 10:59.250 --> 11:01.450 is used purely . The presence of the 11:01.450 --> 11:03.672 aircraft often is enough to resolve the 11:03.672 --> 11:06.460 situation . But air power is an 11:06.460 --> 11:08.460 advantage , but it's used extremely 11:08.460 --> 11:08.660 carefully .