WEBVTT 00:00.368 --> 00:01.681 - Committee hearing will come to order. 00:01.681 --> 00:03.641 Our hearing today is on the President's 00:03.641 --> 00:06.308 Fiscal Year 2018 Funding Request 00:06.798 --> 00:09.544 and Budget Justification with Department of State. 00:09.544 --> 00:11.031 I would like to welcome our witness, 00:11.031 --> 00:12.896 Secretary of State Tillerson. 00:12.896 --> 00:14.754 After opening statements from myself 00:14.754 --> 00:16.172 and the ranking member, we will hear 00:16.172 --> 00:18.408 from the secretary, we'll accept your written 00:18.408 --> 00:20.385 testimony and anything you would like 00:20.385 --> 00:22.218 to tell us personally. 00:23.082 --> 00:26.455 So, this is going to be a little bit longer than normal. 00:26.455 --> 00:27.900 This is a very important issue 00:27.900 --> 00:30.234 for the country, a passion of mine. 00:30.234 --> 00:31.378 Number one, Secretary Tillerson, 00:31.378 --> 00:33.718 I like the way you represent our country. 00:33.718 --> 00:36.087 I think you have a style that's pretty good 00:36.087 --> 00:37.624 for the world as it is today. 00:37.624 --> 00:38.962 You're a man of few words, 00:38.962 --> 00:41.673 but I think when you talk, people listen. 00:41.673 --> 00:43.923 Your view of Qatar I share. 00:44.039 --> 00:46.702 What you're doing in North Korea is beginning to penetrate. 00:46.702 --> 00:49.774 Just met with the Chinese, I think they get your message. 00:49.774 --> 00:51.508 And I think you're looking for ways 00:51.508 --> 00:53.487 for people to get to yes, and always 00:53.487 --> 00:56.009 leaving back doors to hard situations. 00:56.009 --> 00:58.598 So, in terms of your style and your attitude 00:58.598 --> 01:02.098 toward the job, I very much appreciate it. 01:02.246 --> 01:05.746 As to the budget, we're here today because 01:06.620 --> 01:09.370 the budget balances in ten years. 01:09.513 --> 01:11.923 We need to increase defense spending, 01:11.923 --> 01:14.539 but once you do that, then if you're not 01:14.539 --> 01:16.599 gonna deal with entitlements, you have to go to 01:16.599 --> 01:20.766 non-defense discretionary spending to find the offsets. 01:21.819 --> 01:25.236 This account gets pretty much devastated. 01:25.269 --> 01:27.727 I'm not blaming you, I'm not blaming anybody. 01:27.727 --> 01:29.117 I just want the country to know 01:29.117 --> 01:32.270 I think this budget request is, in many ways, 01:32.270 --> 01:35.443 radical and reckless when it comes to soft power, 01:35.443 --> 01:37.574 and I look forward to working with you, 01:37.574 --> 01:40.496 Mr. Secretary, to find a better budget, 01:40.496 --> 01:43.218 but also to find a better State Department. 01:43.218 --> 01:45.395 You've just gotten there, you've been there a few months. 01:45.395 --> 01:46.588 A year from now, I think you'll have 01:46.588 --> 01:48.843 a better understanding of how the State Department 01:48.843 --> 01:52.733 can be reformed, and I intend to be your partner 01:52.733 --> 01:55.226 in champion for reforming the State Department. 01:55.226 --> 01:57.377 Let's give it a good once over, 01:57.377 --> 01:58.898 see what works what doesn't, 01:58.898 --> 02:00.847 how many people we actually need. 02:00.847 --> 02:02.767 All of that is long over due. 02:02.767 --> 02:05.434 I welcome that kind of analysis, 02:05.689 --> 02:07.959 but what we have today is a number, 02:07.959 --> 02:10.286 basically, driven by the requirement 02:10.286 --> 02:12.940 to balance the budget, increase defense spending, 02:12.940 --> 02:15.063 and this account gets pretty hard. 02:15.063 --> 02:17.325 I don't think it's a result of the scrutiny 02:17.325 --> 02:18.921 of how the State Department works 02:18.921 --> 02:22.004 as much as budget pressure given from 02:23.774 --> 02:25.487 increased military spending. 02:25.487 --> 02:28.987 So, the first chart I have is to my right. 02:30.624 --> 02:32.405 If you don't fund the State Department 02:32.405 --> 02:35.395 fully then I need to buy more ammunition. 02:35.395 --> 02:39.562 General Mattis, and I think we have other generals. 02:41.003 --> 02:43.023 Cutting the International Affairs budget 02:43.023 --> 02:44.183 unilaterally will have the effect 02:44.183 --> 02:46.056 of disarming our countries capability 02:46.056 --> 02:48.463 to stop new conflicts from forming, 02:48.463 --> 02:49.620 and will place our interests, values, 02:49.620 --> 02:53.667 and lives of our men and women in uniform at risk, 02:53.667 --> 02:55.920 16 retired four star generals. 02:55.920 --> 02:57.311 So, here's the point. 02:57.311 --> 03:00.329 I believe after 42 trips to Iraq and Afghanistan, 03:00.329 --> 03:03.534 we're never gonna win this war by killing terrorists, alone. 03:03.534 --> 03:06.613 That there has to be soft power connection 03:06.613 --> 03:08.706 that the day after you have to hold, 03:08.706 --> 03:10.679 and the terrorist offer a glorious death, 03:10.679 --> 03:12.359 and we must offer a hopeful life. 03:12.359 --> 03:15.007 And that's where your people come in Mr. Secretary, 03:15.007 --> 03:17.388 The USAID included to give the 03:17.388 --> 03:19.585 capability the day after to form 03:19.585 --> 03:21.195 a better life for those who are 03:21.195 --> 03:22.873 having to choose between terrorism 03:22.873 --> 03:24.348 and modern thought. 03:24.348 --> 03:26.350 So, I believe, as the generals do, 03:26.350 --> 03:27.970 if you don't believe me, listen to generals, 03:27.970 --> 03:29.885 that the State Department's role 03:29.885 --> 03:32.160 in the War on Terror is very important, 03:32.160 --> 03:36.327 to me just as important as any military power we have. 03:36.394 --> 03:39.257 Now, how much do we spend on soft power? 03:39.257 --> 03:40.840 We spend 1.4%. 03:44.045 --> 03:45.839 So, a lot of people thing foreign aid's 03:45.839 --> 03:48.307 about 25% of what we spend. 03:48.307 --> 03:50.547 But compared to hard power, 03:50.547 --> 03:52.925 which is about 20% of what we spend, 03:52.925 --> 03:56.508 we spend a very small amount on soft power. 03:56.536 --> 03:59.619 That 1.4% includes things beyond 03:59.645 --> 04:01.274 just traditional soft power. 04:01.274 --> 04:03.384 So, I want the country to know that 04:03.384 --> 04:05.503 if you eliminated the State Department 04:05.503 --> 04:08.816 you would not even begin to move the debt needle. 04:08.816 --> 04:11.645 The question is if you cripple the State Department, 04:11.645 --> 04:14.052 it's not about debt, to me it's about security 04:14.052 --> 04:16.752 and American values being impeded. 04:16.752 --> 04:20.835 So, let's look at GDP on defense and non-defense. 04:23.132 --> 04:27.132 So, what you see is that the GDP on hard power's 04:27.167 --> 04:31.334 about 3% of GDP, on soft power is surrounding era 04:32.700 --> 04:35.562 and this chart shows you that we're going 04:35.562 --> 04:38.170 downward dramatically on soft power, 04:38.170 --> 04:40.253 and upward on hard power. 04:41.535 --> 04:45.618 So, comparison of DoD State Department workforce. 04:45.886 --> 04:47.472 How many people do we have in the 04:47.472 --> 04:50.639 hard power world and soft power world? 04:52.407 --> 04:54.950 Okay, you see over here, the numbers 04:54.950 --> 04:59.033 of state USAID, which is a very small percentage, 04:59.634 --> 05:03.161 and we have well over a million people in uniform. 05:03.161 --> 05:05.266 So, if you believe soft power is important, 05:05.266 --> 05:09.433 and the generals tell me you do, look at the balance. 05:10.298 --> 05:12.188 So, here's what I would suggest. 05:12.188 --> 05:14.534 We do need more hard power because 05:14.534 --> 05:17.103 sequestrations hurt hard power. 05:17.103 --> 05:18.369 But you're gonna have a hard time 05:18.369 --> 05:22.536 convincing me that soft power can stand a 29% cut. 05:23.903 --> 05:25.440 And we'll talk about that more. 05:25.440 --> 05:29.607 So, that's the comparability of the workforce, basically. 05:32.081 --> 05:36.248 International Affairs budget historically, look here. 05:38.207 --> 05:40.624 Look at the big drop in 2018. 05:41.228 --> 05:45.330 Plus up in 2017, the world's gone to hell in a handcart. 05:45.330 --> 05:48.196 Now, our response is to increase hard power, 05:48.196 --> 05:51.158 which I agree with, but a 29% reduction 05:51.158 --> 05:53.349 in hard power in 2018 doesn't make 05:53.349 --> 05:54.555 a whole lot of sense to me. 05:54.555 --> 05:56.132 Just look at that drop and say, 05:56.132 --> 05:57.675 given the world as we know it, 05:57.675 --> 05:59.850 and the role that soft power plays, according to 05:59.850 --> 06:02.922 the generals, not Lindsey Graham, is this wise? 06:02.922 --> 06:04.877 I really don't think so. 06:04.877 --> 06:06.960 Embassy Security Funding. 06:08.484 --> 06:10.567 We all remember Benghazi. 06:12.496 --> 06:14.577 Look at this reduction in funding 06:14.577 --> 06:17.077 for security of our embassies. 06:17.179 --> 06:20.573 All I could say, given the threats that I see, 06:20.573 --> 06:23.073 now's not the time to decrease 06:24.592 --> 06:26.197 Embassy Security Funding, unless you're 06:26.197 --> 06:28.841 gonna really close a lot of embassies. 06:28.841 --> 06:29.997 And I'm not so sure now's the time 06:29.997 --> 06:32.747 to be closing a lot of embassies. 06:33.968 --> 06:35.385 Cuts to HIV AIDS. 06:38.985 --> 06:41.021 One last thing, here's what the Benghazi 06:41.021 --> 06:43.061 Accountability Review Board told us. 06:43.061 --> 06:44.823 It is imperative for the State Department 06:44.823 --> 06:48.892 to be mission driven, rather than resource constrained. 06:48.892 --> 06:50.164 So, here's the question. 06:50.164 --> 06:51.284 The mission of the State Department 06:51.284 --> 06:54.393 in a world falling apart, is it greater or smaller? 06:54.393 --> 06:56.558 If you think it's greater, than the budget 06:56.558 --> 07:00.093 should follow the need, not just some artificial number. 07:00.093 --> 07:02.593 Alright, let's go to HIV AIDS. 07:05.088 --> 07:09.255 As a Republican, I am proud of President 43, Bush, 07:11.362 --> 07:14.199 who came up with a program called PEPFAR 07:14.199 --> 07:16.874 supported by almost every Democrat. 07:16.874 --> 07:19.457 President Obama continued this, 07:20.589 --> 07:24.506 and as you can see, in the return on the dollar 07:26.994 --> 07:31.161 for the PEPFAR program has been absolutely astounding. 07:31.357 --> 07:34.269 Millions of young Africans are alive today 07:34.269 --> 07:36.769 because of the PEPFAR program. 07:36.955 --> 07:39.115 Mother to child AIDS transmission 07:39.115 --> 07:41.282 has gone down by 75%. 07:41.833 --> 07:44.583 Every American taxpayer should be 07:45.778 --> 07:48.385 pleased that your hard earned dollars 07:48.385 --> 07:50.123 went to a continent being consumed 07:50.123 --> 07:52.842 by a vicious disease called AIDS, 07:52.842 --> 07:55.200 and we're beginning to turn the corner. 07:55.200 --> 07:56.802 We're not there yet, but there are 07:56.802 --> 07:58.889 five countries that are gonna be self sufficient. 07:58.889 --> 08:02.036 And this budget cuts it by a billion dollars 08:02.036 --> 08:03.983 when we're inside the 10 yard line, 08:03.983 --> 08:06.294 and I could give you the numbers of what it means 08:06.294 --> 08:08.736 to the programs, but there are a lot, 08:08.736 --> 08:10.348 hundreds of thousands of people 08:10.348 --> 08:12.884 will not be treated because of this budget cut. 08:12.884 --> 08:15.939 I think it's just a penny wise and a pound foolish. 08:15.939 --> 08:17.939 Humanitarian assistance. 08:18.064 --> 08:20.468 There are currently 65.3 million people 08:20.468 --> 08:23.051 forcefully displaced worldwide. 08:24.184 --> 08:27.258 That's the highest level in modern history. 08:27.258 --> 08:31.425 Now, what role does the State Department play in this? 08:31.837 --> 08:35.502 20 million people are currently at risk of famine. 08:35.502 --> 08:39.669 So, you have famine and you have manmade wars and disasters. 08:40.774 --> 08:43.941 Look what we're doing with assistance. 08:44.229 --> 08:46.812 We're cutting it at a time when 08:47.246 --> 08:51.413 disaster assistance needs are at an all time high. 08:51.561 --> 08:54.663 Presidents FY 2018 Budget cuts international 08:54.663 --> 08:58.663 disaster assistance and food aid by 3.4 billion, 08:59.724 --> 09:02.391 77% below the 2017 numbers. 09:04.015 --> 09:07.165 The terrorists love this, the terrorists hate 09:07.165 --> 09:11.332 the idea that America shows up with some food and education. 09:12.114 --> 09:13.796 From a terrorists point of view, 09:13.796 --> 09:16.546 this is really a recruiting tool. 09:17.174 --> 09:18.735 From an American point of view, 09:18.735 --> 09:21.774 we gotta fix this problem, because if we cut back, 09:21.774 --> 09:23.348 other people will follow. 09:23.348 --> 09:25.549 And you're gonna pay now or pay later. 09:25.549 --> 09:27.485 You're gonna deal with these people now 09:27.485 --> 09:29.330 while they can still be helped, 09:29.330 --> 09:30.631 or wind up killing them later when the 09:30.631 --> 09:32.991 young people become terrorists. 09:32.991 --> 09:34.534 So, got a real problem with that one. 09:34.534 --> 09:38.367 Georgia, not my neighbor Georgia, the country. 09:40.588 --> 09:44.338 For the record, I like the people in Georgia. 09:44.844 --> 09:46.340 Georgia is fighting in Afghanistan 09:46.340 --> 09:48.007 without any caveats. 09:49.280 --> 09:50.756 They're one of the few countries 09:50.756 --> 09:52.264 that go to Afghanistan to partner 09:52.264 --> 09:55.460 with our soldiers and do whatever we ask them to do. 09:55.460 --> 09:57.322 They died in fairly large numbers. 09:57.322 --> 09:59.735 They have absolutely no restrictions 09:59.735 --> 10:02.325 on their force to help us win a war 10:02.325 --> 10:04.899 in Afghanistan we can't afford to lose. 10:04.899 --> 10:09.066 Their neighbor is a pretty bad hombre, the Russians. 10:09.429 --> 10:11.026 I'm not gonna bore you with telling you 10:11.026 --> 10:13.142 about what Russia's been doing to their friends 10:13.142 --> 10:17.172 in a region, particularly Georgia, but it's not good. 10:17.172 --> 10:19.421 What signal are we sending to Georgia 10:19.421 --> 10:22.223 when we cut their assistance 66% 10:22.223 --> 10:25.306 at a time when Russia's on the prowl, 10:25.322 --> 10:28.787 and we need more help in Afghanistan, not less, 10:28.787 --> 10:32.954 this just really is the wrong message to our friends, 10:33.059 --> 10:35.476 and certainly the wrong message to Russia. 10:35.476 --> 10:39.397 I am at a loss of why we would cut aid to Georgia, 10:39.397 --> 10:42.769 given what Russia's doing in the region now. 10:42.769 --> 10:44.506 And I'm at loss of why we would want 10:44.506 --> 10:47.009 to send a signal to a people who are 10:47.009 --> 10:50.612 sending their troops to Afghanistan without any conditions. 10:50.612 --> 10:52.529 Sri Lanka, small place, 11:00.169 --> 11:02.494 it's within 20 miles of sea lanes 11:02.494 --> 11:04.096 that carry over two thirds of the world's 11:04.096 --> 11:08.263 oil shipments and half the world's container cargo. 11:08.889 --> 11:11.139 China's a big player there. 11:11.642 --> 11:13.626 We just ended a 26 year conflict, 11:13.626 --> 11:17.245 democratic progress is in our interest to have 11:17.245 --> 11:20.474 a democracy that close to the world's shipping lanes. 11:20.474 --> 11:23.497 China's a competitor, and unfortunately, 11:23.497 --> 11:26.400 we're reducing our assistance to Sri Lanka, 11:26.400 --> 11:29.900 as China is going all in, not a wise move. 11:32.773 --> 11:35.690 Now, this is to you, Mr. Secretary. 11:37.174 --> 11:40.790 I think you ran one of the best businesses in the world, 11:40.790 --> 11:44.957 you're a really smart guy, but here's what's on your plate, 11:46.117 --> 11:48.450 that I could think of, ISIS. 11:50.219 --> 11:51.693 You gonna beat them militarily, 11:51.693 --> 11:53.802 but if you don't have a plan for the day after, 11:53.802 --> 11:55.547 we're gonna lose again. 11:55.547 --> 11:57.586 What do you do with Raqqa, what do you do with Mosul, 11:57.586 --> 11:59.951 What do you do with Anbar Province, how do you hold it? 11:59.951 --> 12:03.139 So, defeating ISIS permanently has to have 12:03.139 --> 12:05.306 a hold and build strategy. 12:05.308 --> 12:08.284 That's where USAID and all your really smart people 12:08.284 --> 12:09.534 come into play. 12:10.830 --> 12:13.496 Qatar if you read the op-ed piece today 12:13.496 --> 12:16.321 from the UAE Ambassador, things are not going well. 12:16.321 --> 12:18.303 You got Qatar right from our point of view. 12:18.303 --> 12:21.388 You got 10 thousand and airman and soldier there, 12:21.388 --> 12:23.878 for God's sakes, we can't let this get outta hand, 12:23.878 --> 12:25.596 so you're gonna be pretty busy with Qatar. 12:25.596 --> 12:27.681 Russia, don't have time to talk about 12:27.681 --> 12:30.966 what's on your plate with Russia, it's just a lot. 12:30.966 --> 12:34.639 Syria, if we can ever find a way to end the war, 12:34.639 --> 12:36.330 it will be in Geneva, and you'll be 12:36.330 --> 12:38.097 at the table trying to find a way 12:38.097 --> 12:40.205 to put Syria back together, to make sure 12:40.205 --> 12:41.998 that the war doesn't start again, 12:41.998 --> 12:46.060 and Lebanon and Jordan don't fall because of endless war. 12:46.060 --> 12:48.778 The resources necessary to repair the damage 12:48.778 --> 12:52.861 in Syria makes Iraq look like a walk in the park. 12:53.054 --> 12:54.756 And part of those resources will be you 12:54.756 --> 12:57.367 and your talented people, who will go in there 12:57.367 --> 13:01.199 and help the Syrian people deal with the devastation. 13:01.199 --> 13:04.609 North Korea, I like what you're doing in North Korea. 13:04.609 --> 13:07.050 I don't think we're out of the woods yet. 13:07.050 --> 13:08.964 So, you're gonna be a busy guy. 13:08.964 --> 13:12.464 65 million people displaced on your watch. 13:12.853 --> 13:15.423 By the way, the war in Afghanistan, 13:15.423 --> 13:17.428 we need more soldiers, and I think 13:17.428 --> 13:19.737 the president's gonna give the generals what they want, 13:19.737 --> 13:21.847 but we also need to make sure that 13:21.847 --> 13:25.014 the soldier sacrifice is not forsaken, 13:26.385 --> 13:28.516 because you better have a plan to 13:28.516 --> 13:30.609 rebuild those areas we've lost 13:30.609 --> 13:32.958 from the Taliban once we take it back, 13:32.958 --> 13:34.460 or we're gonna lose them again. 13:34.460 --> 13:36.271 So, that's where your people come in. 13:36.271 --> 13:38.260 The president said the Iranian Nuclear Agreement 13:38.260 --> 13:41.254 is terrible, and he wants to replace it. 13:41.254 --> 13:43.140 If you had nothing else to do but that, 13:43.140 --> 13:46.557 that would be a full time job, good luck. 13:47.456 --> 13:51.029 The Ukraine, doesn't seem to be getting better to me. 13:51.029 --> 13:54.031 China, I really like what you're doing 13:54.031 --> 13:55.713 with China regarding North Korea. 13:55.713 --> 13:56.767 I think you're making it real 13:56.767 --> 13:58.530 with the Chinese, they better change their game 13:58.530 --> 14:00.698 'cause President Trump's not gonna 14:00.698 --> 14:02.826 allow them to get a missile to hit our homeland. 14:02.826 --> 14:06.993 And you got a pretty good approach, but China's tough. 14:07.099 --> 14:10.182 20 million people impacted by famine, 14:10.591 --> 14:12.172 and they tell me we're gonna start 14:12.172 --> 14:15.089 the Mideast Process all over again. 14:15.439 --> 14:16.356 You da man. 14:18.757 --> 14:22.634 You gonna do all that and cut the budget by 29%. 14:22.634 --> 14:24.384 Thank you for coming. 14:30.782 --> 14:33.032 - I was gonna be tough, but 14:37.348 --> 14:41.265 what I'll start off by saying is, like he said, 14:42.844 --> 14:45.177 I agree with Senator Graham. 14:46.412 --> 14:49.912 We've worked together on this subcommittee 14:50.224 --> 14:51.292 for a long time. 14:51.292 --> 14:52.942 Part of the time he's been chairman, 14:52.942 --> 14:55.320 part of the time I've been chairman. 14:55.320 --> 14:57.737 But usually, the bills we've brought out of here 14:57.737 --> 15:00.522 have gotten a virtually unanimous vote. 15:00.522 --> 15:04.689 Republicans and Democrats because we care about it. 15:07.548 --> 15:09.745 Let me just read a few passages 15:09.745 --> 15:13.872 form a May 25th guest column in the New York Times, 15:13.872 --> 15:15.907 by Colin Powell who served as 15:15.907 --> 15:18.398 Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff 15:18.398 --> 15:21.146 under President George H. W. Bush, and President Clinton, 15:21.146 --> 15:25.313 and as Secretary of State under President George W Bush. 15:27.290 --> 15:31.457 He wrote, and I quote, "At our best, being a great nation 15:32.309 --> 15:34.953 "has always been a commitment to building 15:34.953 --> 15:37.646 "a better safer world, not just for ourselves, 15:37.646 --> 15:40.592 "but for our children and grandchildren. 15:40.592 --> 15:42.303 "This has meant leading the world in 15:42.303 --> 15:44.643 "advancing the cause of peace, 15:44.643 --> 15:48.120 "responding when disease and disaster strike, 15:48.120 --> 15:50.446 "lifting millions out of poverty 15:50.446 --> 15:53.946 "and inspiring those yearning for freedom. 15:54.052 --> 15:56.520 "This calling is under threat. 15:56.520 --> 15:58.349 "The administration's proposal 15:58.349 --> 16:00.564 "to slash approximately 30 percent 16:00.564 --> 16:02.566 "from the State Department and 16:02.566 --> 16:05.354 "foreign assistance budget signals 16:05.354 --> 16:08.604 "an American retreat, leaving a vacuum 16:09.025 --> 16:11.942 "that would make us far less safe. 16:13.265 --> 16:14.848 "Proposal would bring resources 16:14.848 --> 16:17.119 "for our civilian forces to a third 16:17.119 --> 16:19.674 "of what we spent at the height of 16:19.674 --> 16:23.757 "Ronald Reagan's 'peace through strength' years." 16:23.825 --> 16:26.559 "It would be internationally irresponsible, 16:26.559 --> 16:29.044 "distressing our friends, encouraging 16:29.044 --> 16:31.728 "our enemies and undermining our 16:31.728 --> 16:35.561 "own economic and national security interests. 16:36.091 --> 16:38.716 "The idea that putting Americans 'first' requires 16:38.716 --> 16:42.883 "a withdrawal from the world is simply wrongheaded." 16:46.159 --> 16:50.076 Then he goes on to speak of his own experience. 16:51.268 --> 16:53.602 And many had thought that the end of the Cold War 16:53.602 --> 16:56.602 allowed us a retreat, well it isn't. 16:56.834 --> 16:59.547 Do we really want to slash the State Department 16:59.547 --> 17:02.964 and the USAID at such a powerless moment? 17:04.212 --> 17:07.045 No, what we're saying when we talk 17:09.282 --> 17:10.702 about make America great, 17:10.702 --> 17:14.035 we're talking about we're stepping aside 17:14.265 --> 17:16.737 by letting other countries come in, 17:16.737 --> 17:20.707 fill the vacuum, you make the United States irrelevant. 17:20.707 --> 17:22.540 I like to think that our values 17:22.540 --> 17:26.123 are the relevant ones, not other countries. 17:27.289 --> 17:30.122 I wanna know why you may disagree. 17:31.008 --> 17:35.091 Obviously, you do disagree with Secretary Powell. 17:36.948 --> 17:38.899 Why you believe that eliminating thousands 17:38.899 --> 17:40.921 of personnel positions, cutting billions 17:40.921 --> 17:43.591 of dollars from programs, administered 17:43.591 --> 17:47.758 by Department of State USAID is in our best interest. 17:48.907 --> 17:51.550 I would ask consent, as chairman, 17:51.550 --> 17:54.883 to put the Powell article in the record. 17:54.986 --> 17:56.819 - [Lindsey] Objection. 18:01.035 --> 18:03.368 - Secretary Powell also said 18:04.566 --> 18:06.923 that many had assumed the Cold War's end 18:06.923 --> 18:10.169 would allow us to retreat from the world, 18:10.169 --> 18:11.960 but cuts that may have looked logical 18:11.960 --> 18:14.793 at the time came back to haunt us. 18:14.887 --> 18:16.842 As tensions rose in the Middle East, 18:16.842 --> 18:20.480 Africa, the Korean Peninsula, and elsewhere. 18:20.480 --> 18:22.305 Confronting such challenges requires 18:22.305 --> 18:24.896 not just a military that's second to none, 18:24.896 --> 18:27.115 but also our resource effective 18:27.115 --> 18:30.115 empowered diplomats and aid workers. 18:32.561 --> 18:34.535 I think General Powell is saying, 18:34.535 --> 18:36.285 and others have said, 18:39.250 --> 18:41.546 much of the world has looked to the United States 18:41.546 --> 18:42.796 for leadership. 18:43.690 --> 18:46.214 We're walking away from that leadership 18:46.214 --> 18:49.190 if we say let somebody else fill in for us, 18:49.190 --> 18:51.523 let somebody else take over. 18:51.890 --> 18:54.166 We go around talking about look at the 18:54.166 --> 18:56.580 huge amount of money we spend on foreign aid. 18:56.580 --> 18:59.183 It's a little over 1% of our budget. 18:59.183 --> 19:03.350 On a per capita basis, a lot of countries spend more. 19:03.922 --> 19:06.922 Why would we give up that influence? 19:07.308 --> 19:09.308 Does that make us safer? 19:09.583 --> 19:11.447 Why would we wanna let some of these 19:11.447 --> 19:15.030 totalitarian regimes expand their influence 19:15.635 --> 19:17.802 versus American influence? 19:19.077 --> 19:21.077 Does that make us safer? 19:21.472 --> 19:24.387 Does it make us safer if we allow epidemics 19:24.387 --> 19:26.970 to accelerate around the world? 19:27.441 --> 19:29.785 Does it make us safer if we don't 19:29.785 --> 19:32.785 do anything to help with the refugee 19:33.228 --> 19:36.228 situation that's overwhelming allies 19:37.076 --> 19:38.743 of ours like Jordan? 19:39.174 --> 19:42.424 Does it make us any safer if we pretend 19:44.603 --> 19:47.270 that we can go fortress America? 19:47.944 --> 19:51.944 Remember how well that worked on 9/11 19:52.072 --> 19:55.155 when Saudi Arabia sent so many people 19:55.894 --> 19:59.061 to fly airplanes into the Twin Towers. 20:08.227 --> 20:10.138 We faced a terrible terrorist attack, 20:10.138 --> 20:12.672 one of the worst ever in this country 20:12.672 --> 20:15.339 by an American in Oklahoma City. 20:16.097 --> 20:19.597 Now, all the sudden we face it with Saudis 20:19.758 --> 20:22.341 coming in here, Saudi citizens. 20:24.678 --> 20:27.095 We can't be fortress America. 20:27.254 --> 20:30.130 We face problems at home, of course. 20:30.130 --> 20:32.963 I use Oklahoma City as an example. 20:33.340 --> 20:35.757 We face problems from abroad. 20:36.275 --> 20:38.942 Those who came from Saudi Arabia 20:39.389 --> 20:41.587 and destroyed the Twin Towers. 20:41.587 --> 20:44.754 So, I don't need to give you a speech, 20:45.657 --> 20:48.977 but I want you to know that I agree with the chairman, 20:48.977 --> 20:52.144 and we have very strong views on this. 20:52.345 --> 20:54.498 - Mr. Secretary, the floor is yours. 20:54.498 --> 20:56.248 Thank you for coming. 21:01.524 --> 21:04.188 - Thank you, Chairman Graham, Ranking Member Leahy, 21:04.188 --> 21:06.177 and distinguished members of the committee. 21:06.177 --> 21:07.836 I appreciate the opportunity to discuss the 21:07.836 --> 21:10.454 Administration's State Department and USAID 21:10.454 --> 21:13.454 budget request for Fiscal Year 2018. 21:14.287 --> 21:17.478 As we all know, America's global competitive advantages 21:17.478 --> 21:21.440 and standing as a leader are under constant challenge. 21:21.440 --> 21:23.513 The dedicated men and women of the State Department 21:23.513 --> 21:26.263 and USAID carry out the important 21:26.371 --> 21:28.917 and often perilous work of advancing 21:28.917 --> 21:31.354 America's interests every single day, 21:31.354 --> 21:34.021 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. 21:35.420 --> 21:37.587 That mission is unchanged. 21:37.676 --> 21:40.690 However, the State Department and USAID, 21:40.690 --> 21:44.857 like many other institutions here and around the world, 21:45.182 --> 21:47.598 have not evolved in their responsiveness 21:47.598 --> 21:50.465 as quickly as new challenges and threats 21:50.465 --> 21:54.632 to our national security have changed and are changing. 21:54.808 --> 21:57.813 We are challenged to respond to a post-Cold War 21:57.813 --> 22:01.563 world that set in motion new global dynamics, 22:01.654 --> 22:03.978 and a post 9/11 world characterized 22:03.978 --> 22:06.266 by historic threats that present 22:06.266 --> 22:08.935 themselves in ways never seen before, 22:08.935 --> 22:11.233 enabled by technological tools 22:11.233 --> 22:13.864 that we have been ill-prepared to engage. 22:13.864 --> 22:16.541 The 21st century has already presented 22:16.541 --> 22:18.851 many evolving challenges to U.S. 22:18.851 --> 22:22.046 national security and economic prosperity. 22:22.046 --> 22:25.082 We must develop proactive responses to protect 22:25.082 --> 22:28.470 and advance the interests of the American people. 22:28.470 --> 22:31.665 With such a broad array of threats facing the United States, 22:31.665 --> 22:34.364 the Fiscal Year 2018 Budge Request 22:34.364 --> 22:38.364 of $7.6 billion aligns with the administration's 22:39.121 --> 22:43.288 objective of making America's security our top priority. 22:44.204 --> 22:46.361 The first responsibility of government 22:46.361 --> 22:48.775 is the security of its own citizens, 22:48.775 --> 22:51.240 and we will orient our diplomatic efforts 22:51.240 --> 22:53.962 toward fulfilling that commitment. 22:53.962 --> 22:56.532 While our mission will also be focused on advancing 22:56.532 --> 22:59.042 the economic interests of the American people, 22:59.042 --> 23:01.255 the State Department's primary focus will be 23:01.255 --> 23:04.838 to protect our citizens at home and abroad. 23:05.545 --> 23:07.615 Our mission is at all times 23:07.615 --> 23:10.729 guided by our longstanding values of freedom, 23:10.729 --> 23:14.812 democracy, individual liberty, and human dignity. 23:15.397 --> 23:18.659 The conviction of our country's Founders is enduring, 23:18.659 --> 23:21.129 that "all men are endowed by their Creator 23:21.129 --> 23:23.610 with certain unalienable rights." 23:23.610 --> 23:26.914 As a nation, we hold high the aspiration 23:26.914 --> 23:31.081 that all will one day experience the freedoms we have known. 23:31.546 --> 23:34.809 In our young administration's foreign policy, 23:34.809 --> 23:36.977 we are motivated by the conviction that 23:36.977 --> 23:39.210 the more we engage with other nations 23:39.210 --> 23:41.748 on issues of security and prosperity, 23:41.748 --> 23:44.325 the more we will have opportunities to shape 23:44.325 --> 23:47.111 the human rights conditions in those nations. 23:47.111 --> 23:49.588 History has shown that the United States 23:49.588 --> 23:53.505 leaves a footprint of freedom wherever it goes. 23:53.570 --> 23:55.896 Ensuring the security and prosperity 23:55.896 --> 23:57.740 of the American people and advancing 23:57.740 --> 24:00.169 our values has necessitated difficult 24:00.169 --> 24:02.978 decisions in other areas of our budget. 24:02.978 --> 24:05.895 The Fiscal Year 2018 budget request 24:06.298 --> 24:08.888 includes substantial funding for 24:08.888 --> 24:11.174 many foreign assistance programs under 24:11.174 --> 24:15.091 the auspices of USAID and the State Department, 24:15.214 --> 24:17.673 but we have made hard choices to reduce 24:17.673 --> 24:20.173 funding for other initiatives. 24:20.264 --> 24:22.376 But even with reductions in funding, 24:22.376 --> 24:24.577 we will continue to be the leader 24:24.577 --> 24:27.878 in international development, global health, 24:27.878 --> 24:30.664 democracy and good governance initiatives, 24:30.664 --> 24:32.747 and humanitarian efforts. 24:32.970 --> 24:37.137 If natural disasters or epidemics strike overseas, 24:37.160 --> 24:40.743 America will respond with care and support. 24:41.081 --> 24:43.821 I am convinced we can maximize the effectiveness 24:43.821 --> 24:46.103 of these programs and continue to offer 24:46.103 --> 24:49.186 America's helping hand to the world. 24:49.866 --> 24:51.465 This budget request also reflects 24:51.465 --> 24:54.108 a commitment to ensure every tax dollar 24:54.108 --> 24:57.897 that is spent is aligned with the Department's 24:57.897 --> 25:01.230 and USAID's mission-critical objectives. 25:01.754 --> 25:04.211 The request focuses the State Department 25:04.211 --> 25:06.676 and USAID's efforts on missions 25:06.676 --> 25:08.629 which deliver the greatest value 25:08.629 --> 25:12.796 and opportunity of success for the American people. 25:13.081 --> 25:15.585 The State Department and USAID budget 25:15.585 --> 25:19.418 increased over 60% from Fiscal Year 2007, 25:20.925 --> 25:24.925 reaching a record high $55.6 billion in FY 2017. 25:28.150 --> 25:30.601 Recognizing that this rate of increase 25:30.601 --> 25:32.891 in funding is not sustainable, 25:32.891 --> 25:36.308 the FY 2018 budget request seeks to align 25:37.181 --> 25:39.439 the core missions of the State Department 25:39.439 --> 25:41.710 with historic funding levels. 25:41.710 --> 25:44.161 We believe this budget also represents 25:44.161 --> 25:46.285 the interests of the American people, 25:46.285 --> 25:50.452 including responsible stewardship of the public's money. 25:51.068 --> 25:53.819 I know there is intense interest in prospective 25:53.819 --> 25:57.569 State Department and USAID redesign efforts. 25:57.653 --> 25:59.886 We have just completed collecting information 25:59.886 --> 26:02.921 on our organizational processes and culture 26:02.921 --> 26:04.433 through a survey that was made available 26:04.433 --> 26:08.350 to every one of our State and USAID colleagues. 26:08.978 --> 26:11.895 Over 35,000 surveys were completed, 26:12.334 --> 26:14.731 and we also held in-person listening sessions 26:14.731 --> 26:16.699 with approximately 300 individuals 26:16.699 --> 26:20.866 to obtain their perspective on what we do and how we do it. 26:21.503 --> 26:24.099 I met personally with dozens of team members 26:24.099 --> 26:27.098 who spoke candidly about their experiences. 26:27.098 --> 26:28.909 From this feedback we have been able 26:28.909 --> 26:33.076 to get a clearer overall view of our organization. 26:33.491 --> 26:35.397 We had no preconceived outcomes, 26:35.397 --> 26:36.716 and our discussions of the goals, 26:36.716 --> 26:39.200 priorities, and direction of the State Department 26:39.200 --> 26:42.117 and USAID were not token exercises. 26:43.105 --> 26:44.987 The principles for our listening sessions 26:44.987 --> 26:48.737 and subsequent evaluation of our organization 26:48.837 --> 26:51.038 are the same as those which I stated 26:51.038 --> 26:54.854 in my confirmation hearing for our foreign policy: 26:54.854 --> 26:57.376 we will see the world for what it is, 26:57.376 --> 27:00.625 be honest with ourselves and the American people, 27:00.625 --> 27:03.092 follow facts where they lead us, 27:03.092 --> 27:06.121 and hold ourselves and others accountable. 27:06.121 --> 27:09.125 We are still analyzing the feedback we have received, 27:09.125 --> 27:12.707 and we expect to release the findings of the survey soon. 27:12.707 --> 27:15.368 From all of this, one thing is certain: 27:15.368 --> 27:17.571 I am listening to what my people tell me 27:17.571 --> 27:19.560 are the challenges facing them 27:19.560 --> 27:21.513 and how we can produce a more efficient 27:21.513 --> 27:24.930 and effective State Department and USAID. 27:25.648 --> 27:28.452 And we will work as a team and with Congress 27:28.452 --> 27:30.952 to improve both organizations. 27:31.149 --> 27:35.316 Throughout my career, I have never believed, or experienced, 27:36.693 --> 27:38.881 that the level of funding devoted to a goal 27:38.881 --> 27:42.631 is the most important factor in achieving it. 27:42.675 --> 27:45.258 Our budget will never determine 27:45.593 --> 27:49.343 our ability to be effective, our people will. 27:49.511 --> 27:52.385 My colleagues at the State Department and USAID 27:52.385 --> 27:54.656 are a deep source of inspiration, 27:54.656 --> 27:56.700 and their patriotism, professionalism, 27:56.700 --> 27:58.636 and willingness to make sacrifices 27:58.636 --> 28:02.168 for our country are our greatest resources. 28:02.168 --> 28:03.993 I am confident that the U.S. State Department 28:03.993 --> 28:06.466 and USAID will continue to deliver 28:06.466 --> 28:08.804 results for the American people. 28:08.804 --> 28:10.004 I thank you for your time, 28:10.004 --> 28:13.254 and I'm happy to answer your questions. 28:13.958 --> 28:14.958 - Thank you. 28:15.244 --> 28:16.544 We'll do seven minute rounds. 28:16.544 --> 28:19.315 One, I look forward to your effort 28:19.315 --> 28:21.411 to reform the State Department, 28:21.411 --> 28:24.195 get the feedback, come to us and say, 28:24.195 --> 28:25.578 this is what we can do without, 28:25.578 --> 28:27.319 this is what we need more of. 28:27.319 --> 28:29.413 I think you got the perfect right attitude, 28:29.413 --> 28:31.064 but we gotta live with this budget 28:31.064 --> 28:34.731 until you get there, is unacceptable for me. 28:34.899 --> 28:38.066 So, between 2007 and 17, would you say 28:38.237 --> 28:41.237 the world is more dangerous or less? 28:42.092 --> 28:44.295 - The world is changing, and it is 28:44.295 --> 28:46.962 in a very difficult place today. 28:47.204 --> 28:48.605 - So, if we've been spending more 28:48.605 --> 28:51.337 in the last 10 years, there's probably good reason. 28:51.337 --> 28:54.053 And I would say that increasing military 28:54.053 --> 28:58.220 defense spending by 10% is absolutely long overdue. 28:59.216 --> 29:00.690 Do you support the president's budget 29:00.690 --> 29:03.135 to increase hard power by 10%? 29:03.135 --> 29:03.968 - I do. 29:04.148 --> 29:06.547 - Do you believe, as General Mattis, 29:06.547 --> 29:08.298 and other generals that soft power's 29:08.298 --> 29:12.465 an integral part of our national security strategy? 29:12.494 --> 29:13.828 - Without question. 29:13.828 --> 29:16.306 - Okay, so we got the general construct 29:16.306 --> 29:19.018 that soft power and hard power are important. 29:19.018 --> 29:22.130 I can understand increasing hard power, given the threats. 29:22.130 --> 29:26.297 I don't understand reducing soft power by 29%, 29:26.299 --> 29:29.475 but we'll work through this, Mr. Secretary. 29:29.475 --> 29:33.642 In terms of addressing famines as they may emerge, 29:33.734 --> 29:36.067 let's put the chart back up. 29:37.611 --> 29:40.111 Okay, there are currently 65.3 29:41.455 --> 29:44.455 forcibly displaced people worldwide, 29:46.397 --> 29:47.502 four countries, more than 20 million people 29:47.502 --> 29:50.169 are currently at risk of famine. 29:50.232 --> 29:52.808 Why would we reduce spending in this area 29:52.808 --> 29:54.975 given the threats we face? 29:56.279 --> 29:57.755 - Senator, I think the way we're 29:57.755 --> 30:01.088 addressing the challenge in these areas, 30:01.344 --> 30:04.154 and talk about why people are displaced, 30:04.154 --> 30:08.321 and then why people are in need of relief from famine, 30:08.592 --> 30:09.993 and the two are not unrelated, 30:09.993 --> 30:11.960 because many of the areas of sever famine 30:11.960 --> 30:14.460 are related to conflict areas. 30:15.997 --> 30:18.478 What we have done in this budget is 30:18.478 --> 30:20.348 put the emphasis of the funds that 30:20.348 --> 30:24.148 we do have available on where the problems lie. 30:24.148 --> 30:26.898 And so, in terms of our resources 30:27.958 --> 30:30.870 to attack, the Defeat ISIS campaign, 30:30.870 --> 30:33.923 and how we put in place zones of stability 30:33.923 --> 30:36.693 and restore areas to some level of normalcy, 30:36.693 --> 30:39.404 which will allow people who have been 30:39.404 --> 30:41.608 forced to leave these areas by the advent 30:41.608 --> 30:43.417 of ISIS and by the conflict, 30:43.417 --> 30:44.979 will find the conditions such 30:44.979 --> 30:47.429 that they will want to return home. 30:47.429 --> 30:50.007 So, a lot of our de-ISIS effort 30:50.007 --> 30:51.725 is directed at really creating 30:51.725 --> 30:54.740 conditions for the return of refugees that have fled. 30:54.740 --> 30:57.898 In areas of famine relief, we do appreciate 30:57.898 --> 31:00.087 the significant plus up in money that the 31:00.087 --> 31:04.254 Congress authorized in the food aid programs in 2017. 31:04.671 --> 31:08.754 We're delivering that food to where it is needed, 31:10.108 --> 31:12.783 in an effective and efficient we can. 31:12.783 --> 31:15.700 Places like Yemen, which has severe 31:15.711 --> 31:19.281 famine problems, obviously, because the ongoing conflict, 31:19.281 --> 31:21.591 that presents significant challenges. 31:21.591 --> 31:23.808 So, how do we attack the famine 31:23.808 --> 31:25.548 need in Yemen is we have to find 31:25.548 --> 31:27.933 the solution to Yemen that allows 31:27.933 --> 31:30.516 us to deliver the aid to those. 31:30.529 --> 31:33.405 So, I look at these as an integrated problem, 31:33.405 --> 31:37.238 not as simply one item here or one item there. 31:37.792 --> 31:39.744 - And I look at it as threat based budgeting. 31:39.744 --> 31:42.907 I agree that it shouldn't be a number picked out of the air. 31:42.907 --> 31:45.320 It should be based on threats we face. 31:45.320 --> 31:47.240 I just don't see how, given the displacement 31:47.240 --> 31:50.657 of this many people, and no end in sight, 31:51.337 --> 31:55.170 that 77% reduction in disaster assistance 31:55.479 --> 31:57.261 is consistent with the threats we face 31:57.261 --> 32:01.170 from the disasters that are going on all over the world. 32:01.170 --> 32:03.172 We'll just agree to disagree. 32:03.172 --> 32:05.603 Georgia, what do we tell our friends 32:05.603 --> 32:09.603 in Georgia about reducing their aid by 66%, 32:10.094 --> 32:12.427 given the threats they face, 32:12.472 --> 32:14.635 and the importance of Georgia's democracy 32:14.635 --> 32:18.802 to overall stability and our national security interests? 32:19.182 --> 32:22.039 - Well, I've had two bilateral meetings 32:22.039 --> 32:24.094 with the Georgians already, and the president 32:24.094 --> 32:27.060 had an opportunity to meet them as well. 32:27.060 --> 32:29.065 When I talked to the Georgians about 32:29.065 --> 32:31.898 what would they like for us to do, 32:32.120 --> 32:34.462 in the way of expanding our relationship, 32:34.462 --> 32:35.904 what they'd like to see is more 32:35.904 --> 32:38.600 economic trade activity between our countries. 32:38.600 --> 32:40.746 They are making significant investments 32:40.746 --> 32:43.542 in their country to make it more attractive, in terms of 32:43.542 --> 32:44.875 deep water port facilities-- - Did they agree 32:44.875 --> 32:46.708 with these reductions? 32:47.489 --> 32:49.155 - Their concern over these reductions 32:49.155 --> 32:51.055 did not come up in our conversations. 32:51.055 --> 32:53.060 I think what I would convey to you, 32:53.060 --> 32:55.643 Senator, is that at some point, 32:55.689 --> 32:57.358 as we have helped these countries 32:57.358 --> 32:59.664 get on their feet and become successful, 32:59.664 --> 33:02.243 we would expect for their requirements 33:02.243 --> 33:04.027 of our aid to be reduced. 33:04.027 --> 33:06.128 And I think Georgia would be the first 33:06.128 --> 33:07.666 to tell you they're very proud 33:07.666 --> 33:09.635 of how far they have developed their economy 33:09.635 --> 33:11.304 and have developed the ability 33:11.304 --> 33:13.473 to secure themselves against threats from Russia. 33:13.473 --> 33:16.110 Having said that, we're not abandoning them, 33:16.110 --> 33:19.019 we're going to focus the aid we have to help them 33:19.019 --> 33:21.923 in the areas where they feel it is most useful. 33:21.923 --> 33:23.795 - Well, I've been contacted by the people in Georgia, 33:23.795 --> 33:25.374 and they're just absolutely floored. 33:25.374 --> 33:26.702 They said, "What more do you want us to do? 33:26.702 --> 33:27.998 "We're fighting and dying with you 33:27.998 --> 33:29.740 "in Afghanistan without caveats." 33:29.740 --> 33:31.356 And maybe the threats coming from 33:31.356 --> 33:35.439 Georgia to Russia justify reductions of 66%, 33:36.698 --> 33:38.352 but I just don't agree with you. 33:38.352 --> 33:40.993 I just think it's the worst signal to send a good ally, 33:40.993 --> 33:42.804 the worst signal to send to the Russians, 33:42.804 --> 33:44.577 but again, we'll work through this. 33:44.577 --> 33:47.577 HIV AIDS, do you agree that PEPFAR's 33:47.717 --> 33:49.268 been a very successful program 33:49.268 --> 33:50.813 for the American taxpayer? 33:50.813 --> 33:54.827 - It's a model health program for the world to follow. 33:54.827 --> 33:57.137 - Why are we cutting it a billion dollars? 33:57.137 --> 33:59.208 - The program moneys that are available 33:59.208 --> 34:02.375 are to sustain the HIV AIDS treatments 34:02.520 --> 34:04.533 in 11 countries to continue to take 34:04.533 --> 34:06.648 those to conclusion as patients roll 34:06.648 --> 34:10.815 off of those rolls, new treatments can be made available. 34:11.124 --> 34:12.705 - I agree with you that there may be 34:12.705 --> 34:15.664 five or six countries that could be self sufficient. 34:15.664 --> 34:17.901 I just think the billion dollars cut now 34:17.901 --> 34:19.587 effects the countries who are not 34:19.587 --> 34:21.050 gonna be self sufficient, and it's just 34:21.050 --> 34:23.467 penny wise and pound foolish. 34:24.046 --> 34:28.129 So, the bottom line here is a threat based budget 34:29.919 --> 34:33.284 on the soft power side would not resemble 34:33.284 --> 34:36.201 what is being presented in my view. 34:36.636 --> 34:38.409 I humbly disagree with you. 34:38.409 --> 34:41.143 Just look at what you got to do here. 34:41.143 --> 34:44.656 The money we're reducing to disaster relief 34:44.656 --> 34:47.497 is gonna show up with more terrorists, 34:47.497 --> 34:49.504 pulling back from Georgia at a time 34:49.504 --> 34:52.315 when they're still under siege by the Russians 34:52.315 --> 34:55.256 is gonna reward Russia and punish allies, 34:55.256 --> 34:58.132 is gonna create a perception I don't wanna create. 34:58.132 --> 35:01.075 The billion dollars coming out of HIV 35:01.075 --> 35:03.470 means less treatment for more people 35:03.470 --> 35:06.115 at a time when we're actually turning the corner. 35:06.115 --> 35:09.615 So, from 2007 to 2017, if we've spent more 35:12.041 --> 35:14.308 it's because the threats to this country 35:14.308 --> 35:16.391 require us to spend more. 35:16.579 --> 35:19.529 1.4% of the budget's still real money, 35:19.529 --> 35:22.334 but at the end of the day is a small 35:22.334 --> 35:24.448 amount of money given the return. 35:24.448 --> 35:27.149 And let's agree with you on this, 35:27.149 --> 35:28.799 that the people who work for you 35:28.799 --> 35:30.789 are incredibly brave, they service 35:30.789 --> 35:32.821 as well as anybody in uniform, 35:32.821 --> 35:35.398 and I'm a pretty hawkish military kind of guy. 35:35.398 --> 35:38.166 The USAID workers and the State Department people 35:38.166 --> 35:40.551 out there in the fight, God bless you all. 35:40.551 --> 35:44.260 I just really worry about cuts in embassy security. 35:44.260 --> 35:46.427 I'm not gonna beat you up. 35:46.438 --> 35:48.979 I know that we can do better than this, 35:48.979 --> 35:51.315 and we're restrained by artificial 35:51.315 --> 35:53.715 spending numbers that are gonna change. 35:53.715 --> 35:55.543 So, thank you for representing our country 35:55.543 --> 35:58.473 and taking this job, leaving a comfortable life 35:58.473 --> 36:00.723 to do what's on this board. 36:03.115 --> 36:04.282 Senator Leahy. 36:04.492 --> 36:06.575 - Thank you Mr. Chairman. 36:06.807 --> 36:08.445 We only have a few minutes here, 36:08.445 --> 36:12.612 so I think that you can assume there'll be other questions, 36:13.826 --> 36:16.917 as we sent to you in written questions. 36:16.917 --> 36:20.459 Do we have your assurances they'll be answered? 36:20.459 --> 36:21.876 - [Rex] Yes, sir. 36:23.315 --> 36:26.653 - Whether they come from Republicans or Democrats. 36:26.653 --> 36:28.688 - I'm happy to answer to answer any questions 36:28.688 --> 36:30.551 to anyone, I'm happy to take a phone call 36:30.551 --> 36:32.551 from anyone at any time. 36:32.794 --> 36:33.794 - Thank you. 36:37.330 --> 36:40.330 You've sought to, and Senator Graham 36:43.749 --> 36:46.499 alluded to this, you've sought to 36:47.056 --> 36:49.639 reassure our allies that the US 36:49.701 --> 36:52.034 will remain a global leader. 36:53.093 --> 36:56.843 With this budget, cutting money for diplomacy 36:57.277 --> 37:00.777 and development by an average of 30%, 37:01.576 --> 37:05.409 China and Russia are expanding in those areas. 37:06.842 --> 37:09.925 Does that allow us to have influence, 37:10.480 --> 37:14.647 or does it allow them to go ahead of us in influence? 37:15.486 --> 37:17.045 - Well, Senator, I think we have to 37:17.045 --> 37:20.712 devise new ways to respond to a rising China 37:21.734 --> 37:24.141 and respond to a troubling Russia. 37:24.141 --> 37:25.781 And that long list of challenges 37:25.781 --> 37:28.608 on that board over there have been around for a while. 37:28.608 --> 37:30.522 The level of spending we've been 37:30.522 --> 37:32.862 carrying out hasn't solved them. 37:32.862 --> 37:34.959 I go back to my view that I don't think 37:34.959 --> 37:37.709 the money we spend is necessarily 37:38.083 --> 37:40.102 an indicator of our commitment. 37:40.102 --> 37:42.424 I think how we go about it, and we've got to 37:42.424 --> 37:44.591 take some new approaches to begin to 37:44.591 --> 37:48.508 address some of these very daunting challenges. 37:48.627 --> 37:50.752 The aid and the support in what we 37:50.752 --> 37:53.752 can bring to the issue is important. 37:53.977 --> 37:56.365 I'm not in any way diminishing that. 37:56.365 --> 37:58.993 But I think if we equate the budget 37:58.993 --> 38:01.826 level to some level of commitment, 38:02.306 --> 38:04.880 or some level of expected success, 38:04.880 --> 38:06.615 I think we're really undercutting 38:06.615 --> 38:10.131 and selling short people's intellectual capacity 38:10.131 --> 38:12.685 to bring different approaches to these problems. 38:12.685 --> 38:15.542 - Well, I would know when Secretary Mattis 38:15.542 --> 38:18.125 talks about cutting our budget, 38:18.562 --> 38:21.205 your budget, that we should buy him 38:21.205 --> 38:24.955 more bullets, that kind of got our attention. 38:25.808 --> 38:28.529 You talk about money we've spent. 38:28.529 --> 38:29.904 Is every program gonna work? 38:29.904 --> 38:31.071 Of course not. 38:31.536 --> 38:34.217 But I've work with presidents of both parties, 38:34.217 --> 38:37.050 both Presidents Bush, for example, 38:37.860 --> 38:42.027 to increase funding in different parts of the world. 38:42.274 --> 38:43.600 So, we could at least try. 38:43.600 --> 38:45.769 A number of those things have been very successful. 38:45.769 --> 38:48.852 We've talked about PEPFAR and others. 38:50.287 --> 38:54.011 The War Victims Fund has been very successful. 38:54.011 --> 38:57.928 A number of these things have allowed us to be. 38:59.235 --> 39:01.247 When I look at some of these cuts, 39:01.247 --> 39:04.830 I mean, you've got, sure I got these right, 39:05.396 --> 39:08.893 30% cut for diplomacy and development, 39:08.893 --> 39:13.060 millions of dollars appropriated for other purposes, 39:13.150 --> 39:15.865 you wanna eliminate more than 600 positions 39:15.865 --> 39:18.882 from the State Department through buy outs, 39:18.882 --> 39:23.049 reduce more than twice that number through attrition. 39:23.680 --> 39:26.219 What are you gonna do if someday 39:26.219 --> 39:29.969 you find that, woops, we made a mistake here, 39:30.718 --> 39:33.385 we're gonna need more, not less? 39:34.502 --> 39:38.103 - Well, that's what the entire redesign exercise is about, 39:38.103 --> 39:42.020 is understanding better how the work gets done, 39:42.026 --> 39:46.109 what we've learned out of this listening exercise 39:46.209 --> 39:48.362 is our colleagues in the State Department, 39:48.362 --> 39:51.362 USAID, can already identify a number 39:51.855 --> 39:54.963 of obstacles to them getting their word done 39:54.963 --> 39:56.542 efficiently and effectively. 39:56.542 --> 39:59.294 If we eliminate some of those obstacles, 39:59.294 --> 40:02.308 it's like getting another half a person, 40:02.308 --> 40:04.759 because they have their time available now 40:04.759 --> 40:06.956 to direct it at delivery on mission, 40:06.956 --> 40:10.369 as apposed to managing some internal process 40:10.369 --> 40:12.779 that's not directly delivering on mission, 40:12.779 --> 40:14.572 I just use that as an example. 40:14.572 --> 40:17.409 I think when this is all said and done, 40:17.409 --> 40:19.844 our objective is to enable the people, 40:19.844 --> 40:21.726 our foreign service officers, 40:21.726 --> 40:23.499 our civil servants, our people in our missions, 40:23.499 --> 40:26.073 foreign nationals, to deliver on mission 40:26.073 --> 40:28.377 with greater efficiency and effectiveness. 40:28.377 --> 40:31.074 In effect, we're gonna get an uplift 40:31.074 --> 40:33.657 in effort delivered to mission. 40:33.861 --> 40:36.189 - That's a good point to put on a 40:36.189 --> 40:38.154 PowerPoint presentation. 40:38.154 --> 40:41.737 But if you've got 600 people that are gone, 40:41.869 --> 40:45.372 they're obviously not gonna be there to help. 40:45.372 --> 40:47.040 It sounds to me almost like you're 40:47.040 --> 40:49.869 spending more time figuring out who you can fire, 40:49.869 --> 40:52.209 than who you're gonna have out there doing things. 40:52.209 --> 40:54.159 - We're not gonna have to fire anyone. 40:54.159 --> 40:56.978 This is all being done through the hiring freeze, 40:56.978 --> 40:59.946 normal attrition, with a very limited, 40:59.946 --> 41:02.256 if needed, 'cause we haven't determined 41:02.256 --> 41:04.990 whether we'll even need it, a very limited 41:04.990 --> 41:09.157 buy out program between the end of this year and next. 41:09.427 --> 41:12.760 So, there is not firing program planned. 41:15.282 --> 41:17.865 - Let me go into policy things. 41:17.998 --> 41:21.081 The president has gone out of his way 41:21.216 --> 41:25.299 to praise the leaders of very repressive regimes, 41:26.306 --> 41:29.414 in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Russia, Turkey, 41:29.414 --> 41:31.081 and the Philippines. 41:31.649 --> 41:33.339 But now it seems the White House 41:33.339 --> 41:36.256 wants to change our relations which 41:37.726 --> 41:41.309 are finally beginning to improve with Cuba, 41:41.310 --> 41:44.727 despite the progress we've had with Cuba, 41:47.049 --> 41:51.216 as it benefited Cuban entrepreneurs and our businesses. 41:57.083 --> 42:00.250 After your recent trip to Saudi Arabia 42:01.320 --> 42:04.726 where women are jailed flogged for driving a car, 42:04.726 --> 42:06.482 or leaving the house without permission 42:06.482 --> 42:10.065 of a male relative, they got a $100 billion 42:10.769 --> 42:13.436 sale of US weapons, but somehow, 42:14.049 --> 42:16.466 we have to step down on Cuba. 42:20.044 --> 42:21.794 Does that make sense? 42:22.511 --> 42:25.441 - Well, with respect to Cuba, we are evaluating 42:25.441 --> 42:28.740 that policy and what our posture should be. 42:28.740 --> 42:31.573 I think our view is that the steps 42:32.411 --> 42:35.449 that were taken over the past few years 42:35.449 --> 42:37.243 to improve relations with Cuba, 42:37.243 --> 42:40.701 to open it up to greater economic participation 42:40.701 --> 42:44.451 by US companies and American citizens did not 42:44.925 --> 42:48.258 deliver a reciprocal change in policy or 42:48.597 --> 42:51.902 behavior by the Cuban government towards human rights. 42:51.902 --> 42:54.067 There's still political opposition. 42:54.067 --> 42:55.324 - You don't think so, you don't think 42:55.324 --> 42:58.397 that the people who now have jobs in Cuba, 42:58.397 --> 43:01.897 and actually have some economic stability, 43:03.667 --> 43:06.041 that they don't think it's better? 43:06.041 --> 43:07.362 I realize a number of those people now, 43:07.362 --> 43:10.079 as the Wall Street Journal pointed out last week, 43:10.079 --> 43:12.690 because of our restrictions on trade, 43:12.690 --> 43:15.242 are going to Russia to get the parts 43:15.242 --> 43:17.399 they need for their trucks and their cars, 43:17.399 --> 43:20.817 and other things, they spend the money in Russia. 43:20.817 --> 43:23.900 Russia's getting involved to step in. 43:26.411 --> 43:27.744 We haven't been. 43:31.495 --> 43:35.162 I've gone to Cuba and criticized repression. 43:35.186 --> 43:38.184 I don't just sit here in an easy place here 43:38.184 --> 43:40.135 and say, oh, this is what's happening. 43:40.135 --> 43:42.218 I've actually gone there. 43:43.480 --> 43:46.467 We have our president go to Saudi Arabia 43:46.467 --> 43:48.134 to do a sword dance. 43:49.592 --> 43:50.959 We actually have some Americans 43:50.959 --> 43:54.933 that might want to learn to salsa dance in Cuba. 43:54.933 --> 43:56.118 I don't that mean that to be quite 43:56.118 --> 43:58.125 as flippant as it might sound. 43:58.125 --> 44:00.792 The fact is, you and I can go to 44:02.138 --> 44:04.735 any country that will let us in. 44:04.735 --> 44:07.893 But there's only one country in the world 44:07.893 --> 44:10.251 we need permission from our government to go, 44:10.251 --> 44:12.593 and that's Cuba, right off our shore, 44:12.593 --> 44:14.650 as though it's some kind of a threat to us. 44:14.650 --> 44:17.792 We can go to North Korea, if they'll let us in, 44:17.792 --> 44:19.888 like Dennis Rodman, or we can go 44:19.888 --> 44:22.805 to Iraq, or Iran, or anywhere else, 44:24.239 --> 44:27.156 if they'll let us in, but not Cuba. 44:28.058 --> 44:30.900 Frankly, we'll talk more about this. 44:30.900 --> 44:33.317 My time is up, but good Lord, 44:37.038 --> 44:40.205 let's deal with reality, not rhetoric. 44:43.050 --> 44:44.416 - [Lindsey] Senator Moran. 44:44.416 --> 44:48.416 I didn't think that was a question, so go ahead. 44:48.644 --> 44:51.027 - [Patrick] If the Secretary wants to respond to that, 44:51.027 --> 44:53.277 out of fairness, feel free. 44:53.978 --> 44:55.581 - Well, I think it's somewhere in there, 44:55.581 --> 44:57.748 there was a Cuba question. 44:58.228 --> 44:59.374 And as I began to-- 44:59.374 --> 45:03.374 - Would you roll back what you're doing in Cuba? 45:04.038 --> 45:06.004 - I think what we are examining in 45:06.004 --> 45:08.671 the policy discussion on Cuba is 45:09.059 --> 45:12.809 there is existing law that is still in place, 45:13.440 --> 45:15.711 Helms-Burton, that says we are not 45:15.711 --> 45:18.878 to allow or facilitate people to allow 45:19.562 --> 45:22.958 financial support, revenue to the regime. 45:22.958 --> 45:26.625 As the process to open up Cuba has unfolded, 45:27.648 --> 45:30.497 it is our view that that is happening. 45:30.497 --> 45:33.495 If Cuban people are able to conduct business 45:33.495 --> 45:35.838 activities with Americans and others, 45:35.838 --> 45:38.505 and there's no revenue directly, 45:38.642 --> 45:40.561 in terms of ownership in these entities 45:40.561 --> 45:44.478 back to the regime, then we think that's great. 45:44.732 --> 45:47.355 But we have a law existing today 45:47.355 --> 45:49.754 that we feel has to be respected 45:49.754 --> 45:52.148 because that law was intended to 45:52.148 --> 45:54.919 put pressure on the regime to address 45:54.919 --> 45:58.669 these oppressive issues that they still have. 45:59.506 --> 46:02.083 If the Congress doesn't want that pressure 46:02.083 --> 46:04.446 to be continued, then certainly the law 46:04.446 --> 46:07.143 can be revisited, but our view is 46:07.143 --> 46:09.251 we're looking at what were the tools 46:09.251 --> 46:11.008 that were there to deal with all 46:11.008 --> 46:13.067 the four corners of Cuba's behavior 46:13.067 --> 46:14.846 and our relationship with them. 46:14.846 --> 46:16.528 There are some things that we and Cuba 46:16.528 --> 46:18.545 could do together, probably, quite productively, 46:18.545 --> 46:21.124 and we're interested in engaging with them. 46:21.124 --> 46:23.878 But we can't take that just in isolation. 46:23.878 --> 46:28.045 And so, the policy review is looking at all aspects of this. 46:28.453 --> 46:29.567 - [Lindsey] Senator Moran. 46:29.567 --> 46:30.940 - Thank you Mr. Chairman, Mr. Secretary, 46:30.940 --> 46:31.848 thank you for joining us. 46:31.848 --> 46:32.983 Thank you for the conversation 46:32.983 --> 46:34.691 that we had earlier this week. 46:34.691 --> 46:36.654 I wanna focus, at least initially, 46:36.654 --> 46:40.077 on security of our diplomats in the facilities 46:40.077 --> 46:42.879 around the globe in which they work. 46:42.879 --> 46:45.704 The budget sees a decrease in worldwide 46:45.704 --> 46:48.244 security protection account of about 46:48.244 --> 46:50.494 562 million from last year. 46:52.061 --> 46:54.182 First of all, I would say I heard you 46:54.182 --> 46:56.540 in response, I think, to Senator Leahy, 46:56.540 --> 47:00.015 indicate that we can't judge our priorities 47:00.015 --> 47:03.182 necessarily by the levels of spending. 47:03.496 --> 47:04.740 I think that's an indicator, 47:04.740 --> 47:06.113 but I think the point you make is 47:06.113 --> 47:07.791 there's other components that determine 47:07.791 --> 47:10.874 whether or not we will be successful. 47:11.066 --> 47:13.177 I know it's the shared goal that 47:13.177 --> 47:15.358 every person who works for the State Department, 47:15.358 --> 47:18.492 who represents the United States, around the globe 47:18.492 --> 47:22.659 has a safe environment, as safe as we can provide to them. 47:22.797 --> 47:25.547 So, my question is, in this case, 47:26.769 --> 47:30.369 what has changed, or what will we do different 47:30.369 --> 47:32.681 that means that our State Department 47:32.681 --> 47:35.598 employees safety is not diminished? 47:37.343 --> 47:38.924 - Well, you are correct, Senator, 47:38.924 --> 47:40.843 we've made the safety of not just our 47:40.843 --> 47:43.629 State Department employees, but Americans 47:43.629 --> 47:45.931 broadly our highest priority, certainly, 47:45.931 --> 47:48.637 as it relates to our embassy presence, 47:48.637 --> 47:50.514 our counselor office presence, 47:50.514 --> 47:52.806 and our missions around the world. 47:52.806 --> 47:55.148 If you examine the security elements 47:55.148 --> 47:58.217 of the budget, our budget for diplomatic security 47:58.217 --> 48:01.300 is actually up 11% year on year. 48:01.660 --> 48:03.840 Where we have reductions has to do 48:03.840 --> 48:06.243 with some of the construction, the buildings, 48:06.243 --> 48:08.910 part of the budget for embassies 48:09.194 --> 48:10.944 and other facilities. 48:11.578 --> 48:13.457 Part of that will manage with some 48:13.457 --> 48:16.624 multiyear commitments across 17 to 18, 48:19.028 --> 48:20.379 and some of this has to do with 48:20.379 --> 48:22.766 just our ability to move projects along promptly. 48:22.766 --> 48:25.349 We are clearly committed to the 48:26.029 --> 48:28.106 Benghazi ARB recommendations, and 48:28.106 --> 48:30.146 I'm monitoring those carefully. 48:30.146 --> 48:31.872 We have some gaps we need to close. 48:31.872 --> 48:34.743 The OIG has helped us identify some of those. 48:34.743 --> 48:36.912 We're gonna stay on top of those. 48:36.912 --> 48:38.610 If there were more funds there, 48:38.610 --> 48:41.223 we would simply try to step up more activity 48:41.223 --> 48:44.185 on some of the building and maintenance issues. 48:44.185 --> 48:45.836 So, most of the reduction is in 48:45.836 --> 48:48.017 building and maintenance efforts, 48:48.017 --> 48:49.525 which we believe are manageable, 48:49.525 --> 48:52.192 at least through fiscal year 18. 48:52.631 --> 48:54.121 - Mr. Secretary, thank you. 48:54.121 --> 48:57.121 An American citizen who was not safe 48:58.041 --> 49:01.708 who's parents live in Kansas, Michael Sharp, 49:02.516 --> 49:05.182 was killed along with another American 49:05.182 --> 49:08.364 in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. 49:08.364 --> 49:10.473 Last week, Ambassador Haley called 49:10.473 --> 49:12.387 on the UN to investigate the murders 49:12.387 --> 49:14.470 of those two individuals. 49:15.798 --> 49:17.201 Would you find it appropriate to 49:17.201 --> 49:19.415 join Ambassador Haley in insisting 49:19.415 --> 49:22.415 that the perpetrators be determined, 49:22.990 --> 49:25.907 the facts be discovered, and we do everything 49:25.907 --> 49:28.116 we can to see that justice is met. 49:28.116 --> 49:29.609 - We have already done that through 49:29.609 --> 49:32.466 our diplomatic mission in the Diplomatic Republic of Congo, 49:32.466 --> 49:34.443 and have called for a full investigation 49:34.443 --> 49:37.193 to the extent we are able to gain 49:37.398 --> 49:39.688 information in their investigation. 49:39.688 --> 49:42.289 We certainly will make that available to you. 49:42.289 --> 49:44.710 But yes, we have called for that as well. 49:44.710 --> 49:46.381 - And what's the response of the government? 49:46.381 --> 49:47.881 Have they cooperated? 49:47.881 --> 49:49.587 Is there results that-- 49:49.587 --> 49:53.754 - My understanding is investigations are under way. 49:53.843 --> 49:55.909 What an investigation in the Democratic 49:55.909 --> 49:58.532 Republic of Congo may entail versus 49:58.532 --> 50:00.571 the way we carry out law enforcement 50:00.571 --> 50:03.448 is something we're trying to, at least monitor 50:03.448 --> 50:06.578 and make sure we're asking all of the right questions. 50:06.578 --> 50:08.753 - The investigatory role is being carried on 50:08.753 --> 50:10.623 by the Democratic Republic of Congo. 50:10.623 --> 50:14.790 This is not by anyone representing the United States? 50:15.123 --> 50:17.604 - We've not, I would say, been able 50:17.604 --> 50:20.409 to put in place independent investigatory authority 50:20.409 --> 50:23.679 there with the Democratic Republic of Congo at this time. 50:23.679 --> 50:25.540 We're working with them. 50:25.540 --> 50:28.220 - One of the concerns I have with this budget 50:28.220 --> 50:31.303 is that we don't operate in a vacuum. 50:31.807 --> 50:34.640 As I talk to our military leaders, 50:34.942 --> 50:39.025 certainly, terrorism is on their list of worries. 50:40.349 --> 50:42.300 Senator Graham gave you a long list. 50:42.300 --> 50:45.550 But our military officers often tell me 50:45.656 --> 50:48.823 that Russia is our greatest challenge. 50:51.049 --> 50:53.463 Certainly, all of them will include China 50:53.463 --> 50:57.630 on the list of concerns for our county's role in the world. 51:01.511 --> 51:05.344 Investment in the State Department's programs, 51:06.315 --> 51:09.019 when they're reduced, gives other countries 51:09.019 --> 51:12.269 the opportunity to advance their causes 51:12.318 --> 51:14.735 if we leave any gap unfilled. 51:16.477 --> 51:18.773 So, I would ask you with this budget 51:18.773 --> 51:21.254 what would you expect to occur 51:21.254 --> 51:23.298 in regard to, particularly China, 51:23.298 --> 51:25.553 but also Russia, and their ability 51:25.553 --> 51:28.253 to increase their influence around the globe, 51:28.253 --> 51:30.181 which in my view, is to the detriment 51:30.181 --> 51:33.008 of the United States and it's wellbeing. 51:33.008 --> 51:36.675 China just, last month, pledged $124 billion 51:36.978 --> 51:40.311 for a new global infrastructure program. 51:41.142 --> 51:43.642 We are reducing USAID missions 51:44.101 --> 51:46.873 and eliminating economic development assistance 51:46.873 --> 51:49.623 to 37 countries around the globe. 51:51.198 --> 51:54.031 The issue to me is, in addition to 51:54.334 --> 51:58.084 the humanitarian, the rightness of the cause, 51:58.375 --> 52:02.272 is that others will take advantage of our absence. 52:02.272 --> 52:04.430 - Well, we are already seeing that 52:04.430 --> 52:06.875 happening, particularly in Southeast Asia, 52:06.875 --> 52:09.116 but in parts of Africa and elsewhere, 52:09.116 --> 52:11.737 particularly as to the rise of China. 52:11.737 --> 52:14.306 I think our challenge is, in China's case, 52:14.306 --> 52:16.922 it is a centrally command control economy, 52:16.922 --> 52:19.402 so when they come with economic, 52:19.402 --> 52:23.235 not just loans, assistance, but also companies 52:24.258 --> 52:27.178 to carry out infrastructure projects, 52:27.178 --> 52:29.118 they get the whole package. 52:29.118 --> 52:32.869 So, countries that enter into these arrangement, 52:32.869 --> 52:35.716 and we are talking to these countries 52:35.716 --> 52:38.105 and cautioning them about what 52:38.105 --> 52:39.645 they're getting themselves into 52:39.645 --> 52:41.235 in terms of getting themselves 52:41.235 --> 52:43.611 overburdened with loan commitments to China. 52:43.611 --> 52:45.525 That when China offers to build 52:45.525 --> 52:48.134 a railroad, build a road, build a port, 52:48.134 --> 52:49.733 they don't do it with local employment. 52:49.733 --> 52:51.435 They bring Chinese employment, 52:51.435 --> 52:55.183 and then those Chinese employment never goes home. 52:55.183 --> 52:56.479 We see this happening. 52:56.479 --> 52:58.639 We're working with partners in the region. 52:58.639 --> 53:00.501 This was a subject of discussion 53:00.501 --> 53:03.917 when Secretary Mattis and I attended AUSMIN 53:03.917 --> 53:08.084 our Two-Plus-Two ministerial last week in Australia, 53:08.869 --> 53:10.525 as well as in our conversations with 53:10.525 --> 53:12.621 New Zealand, Singapore, and others. 53:12.621 --> 53:15.064 One of the approaches we are exploring 53:15.064 --> 53:17.642 is whether we can get the World Bank 53:17.642 --> 53:21.392 to also bring it's mission to Southeast Asia, 53:21.509 --> 53:24.919 bring more private equity, private sector 53:24.919 --> 53:26.857 investment dollars to the region, 53:26.857 --> 53:30.074 and bring more council and advice to countries, 53:30.074 --> 53:32.210 and give them another alternative 53:32.210 --> 53:34.811 around how to finance these projects, 53:34.811 --> 53:38.311 get more private sector involvement there. 53:38.316 --> 53:41.963 What's required to get the private sector to engage is, 53:41.963 --> 53:43.570 some of these countries have to continue 53:43.570 --> 53:45.819 to improve their investment climate, 53:45.819 --> 53:49.319 like Vietnam, the Philippines, and others. 53:49.514 --> 53:51.717 We're working with them on what's necessary, 53:51.717 --> 53:54.392 and in our meetings with the ASEAN countries, 53:54.392 --> 53:56.142 they see this threat. 53:56.898 --> 53:59.333 They see it, they feel it, and so we do 53:59.333 --> 54:02.224 have to be there with an alternative to your point. 54:02.224 --> 54:03.450 You're exactly right. 54:03.450 --> 54:05.253 We have to come with an alternative. 54:05.253 --> 54:08.041 But our alternative can't be solely 54:08.041 --> 54:10.430 achieved through the funding available 54:10.430 --> 54:12.347 through state or USAID. 54:12.480 --> 54:15.938 We really have to mobilize a much broader effort, 54:15.938 --> 54:18.605 and that's how we're responding. 54:18.697 --> 54:20.446 - Thank you, Mr. Secretary. 54:20.446 --> 54:22.213 - [Lindsey] Senator Shaheen. 54:22.213 --> 54:24.181 - [Jeanne] Mr. Chairman, I'll deffer to my colleague, 54:24.181 --> 54:26.095 Senator Durbin, because he was 54:26.095 --> 54:27.696 kind enough to open the door for me, 54:27.696 --> 54:29.546 which is why I got here before he did. 54:29.546 --> 54:30.379 So, he was really 54:30.379 --> 54:32.080 here at the same time. - No, absolutely not. 54:32.080 --> 54:33.319 (laughs) 54:33.319 --> 54:34.569 Senator Durbin. 54:37.128 --> 54:40.454 - [Jeanne] No good deed goes unpunished, as we've said. 54:40.454 --> 54:44.000 - [Dick] A good Sarmatian never goes unpunished. 54:44.000 --> 54:46.877 - Secretary Tillerson, thank you for being here. 54:46.877 --> 54:49.242 I'm sorry that I missed you this morning 54:49.242 --> 54:50.817 at the Foreign Relations Committee because 54:50.817 --> 54:54.984 I was at another appropriations subcommittee hearing. 54:56.196 --> 54:59.743 But I wanted to ask you about recent news reports 54:59.743 --> 55:02.528 that have described a proposed trip to 55:02.528 --> 55:05.575 St. Petersburg by Under Secretary Tom Shannon, 55:05.575 --> 55:08.325 that's gonna happen on June 23rd. 55:08.961 --> 55:11.309 News reports have suggested that the purpose 55:11.309 --> 55:13.909 of the trip is to try and discuss 55:13.909 --> 55:16.252 with the Russians how we might be able 55:16.252 --> 55:19.502 to work together against ISIS in Syria. 55:19.571 --> 55:22.555 An last week a State Department spokesperson 55:22.555 --> 55:25.008 admitted that one of the things 55:25.008 --> 55:26.987 that will be part of the conversation 55:26.987 --> 55:29.904 are the two dachas that were seized 55:30.201 --> 55:32.451 last year in response to Russia's 55:32.451 --> 55:34.920 interference in our elections. 55:34.920 --> 55:37.587 I have a picture of those there, 55:38.492 --> 55:41.320 and we can see that they are quite substantial. 55:41.320 --> 55:44.152 It's my understanding that one of the 55:44.152 --> 55:45.682 intelligence reports suggested 55:45.682 --> 55:49.682 that these were used for collecting intelligence 55:50.173 --> 55:51.506 by the Russians. 55:52.666 --> 55:55.499 I wonder if you can share with us, 55:55.678 --> 55:58.511 given Russia's continued behavior, 55:59.492 --> 56:01.460 why we would even consider the return 56:01.460 --> 56:03.243 of those two dachas as part of any 56:03.243 --> 56:06.576 discussions that we're having with them. 56:06.737 --> 56:08.564 - Well, let me describe to you 56:08.564 --> 56:11.633 the nature of our current dialogues with Russia 56:11.633 --> 56:14.952 because they're occurring at a couple of levels. 56:14.952 --> 56:18.460 On what I would call the strategic big issues 56:18.460 --> 56:20.090 like can we work together in Syria, 56:20.090 --> 56:22.698 how are we going to resolve the Ukraine, 56:22.698 --> 56:24.760 how are we gonna deal with cyber interference, 56:24.760 --> 56:27.383 those are being, today, conducted 56:27.383 --> 56:29.866 at my level with my counterpart, 56:29.866 --> 56:32.160 the foreign minister, and on occasion, 56:32.160 --> 56:34.094 with access to the Kremlin. 56:34.094 --> 56:37.785 What we have agreed to do, there is a long list 56:37.785 --> 56:40.624 of what the Russians call them irritants, 56:40.624 --> 56:43.397 we call them the smalls on our side, 56:43.397 --> 56:45.480 a long list of things that have been 56:45.480 --> 56:48.628 problematic between both of us for sometime, 56:48.628 --> 56:52.206 and in some cases, they're just getting worse. 56:52.206 --> 56:55.188 You recall when I made my trip to Moscow 56:55.188 --> 56:58.453 to see my counterpart, Foreign Minister Lavrov, 56:58.453 --> 57:00.664 and had a two our meeting with President Putin. 57:00.664 --> 57:01.667 I came out of those meetings, 57:01.667 --> 57:04.167 and I said our relationship is 57:04.251 --> 57:06.985 at the lowest level it's been since the Cold War, 57:06.985 --> 57:09.068 and it is spiraling down. 57:09.166 --> 57:11.351 And I said the two greatest nuclear powers 57:11.351 --> 57:15.201 in the world cannot have this kind of relationship. 57:15.201 --> 57:17.244 We have to stabilize it, and we have to 57:17.244 --> 57:19.327 start finding a way back. 57:19.986 --> 57:22.569 So, we segmented the big issues 57:22.823 --> 57:25.723 from this list of what I call the irritants. 57:25.723 --> 57:27.598 The dachas are on that list. 57:27.598 --> 57:29.553 We have things on the list, such as trying 57:29.553 --> 57:30.386 to get the permits for our counselor office 57:30.386 --> 57:31.886 in St. Petersburg, 57:33.668 --> 57:35.320 we've got issues with harassment 57:35.320 --> 57:38.013 of our embassy employees in Moscow, 57:38.013 --> 57:41.147 we have a list of things, they have a list of things. 57:41.147 --> 57:42.840 I don't wanna suggest to you this is 57:42.840 --> 57:44.611 some kind of a bartering deal. 57:44.611 --> 57:46.604 It's more, let's start working on 57:46.604 --> 57:49.085 some of the smalls and see if we can solve them. 57:49.085 --> 57:51.496 As to the dachas, these two properties 57:51.496 --> 57:53.933 have been in ownership of the Russians 57:53.933 --> 57:56.683 dating back to the Soviet Union, 1971. 57:56.683 --> 57:58.286 They've owned these properties 57:58.286 --> 58:01.242 and have used these properties for a very long time. 58:01.242 --> 58:02.806 They were transferred to the Russian 58:02.806 --> 58:04.618 Federation Government for $1 58:04.618 --> 58:06.550 at the breakup of the Soviet Union. 58:06.550 --> 58:08.222 We have continued to allow them 58:08.222 --> 58:10.138 to use these properties. 58:10.138 --> 58:11.834 And they have used these properties 58:11.834 --> 58:14.372 continuously for all that time. 58:14.372 --> 58:16.060 President Obama, in response to 58:16.060 --> 58:18.168 the interference with the election, 58:18.168 --> 58:20.888 expelled the 35 Russian diplomats, 58:20.888 --> 58:23.060 and seized these two properties. 58:23.060 --> 58:24.918 What we're working through with them 58:24.918 --> 58:27.842 in this conversation is, under what terms 58:27.842 --> 58:30.675 and conditions would we allow them 58:30.826 --> 58:33.293 to access the properties again 58:33.293 --> 58:34.979 for recreational purpose. 58:34.979 --> 58:37.000 We've not taken the properties from them, 58:37.000 --> 58:38.791 they still belong to them. 58:38.791 --> 58:42.958 So, we're not gonna seize properties that are theirs. 58:43.630 --> 58:45.295 But we are talking about under what 58:45.295 --> 58:47.217 conditions would we allow you 58:47.217 --> 58:49.212 to use them for recreational purposes, 58:49.212 --> 58:51.275 which is what they have asked. 58:51.275 --> 58:52.923 We have things on our side that 58:52.923 --> 58:55.363 we're discussing terms and conditions with them as well. 58:55.363 --> 58:59.012 So, this is part of how do we take some of the irritants 58:59.012 --> 59:00.460 out of the relationship, - I understand that. 59:00.460 --> 59:01.741 - and stabilize things. 59:01.741 --> 59:03.320 - And I don't mean to interrupt, 59:03.320 --> 59:05.654 but my time is running, and I wonder if 59:05.654 --> 59:08.228 you could tell me if the properties are returned, 59:08.228 --> 59:09.543 how we would insure that they would 59:09.543 --> 59:12.864 not be used for intelligence gathering purposes. 59:12.864 --> 59:14.479 - That's part of the terms and conditions 59:14.479 --> 59:15.826 we're discussing with them, 59:15.826 --> 59:17.442 because we've been pretty clear to them 59:17.442 --> 59:19.358 we know what you were doing there. 59:19.358 --> 59:21.668 We're not gonna allow you to continue to do that. 59:21.668 --> 59:22.668 - Thank you. 59:23.917 --> 59:26.750 As the chair, Graham, pointed out, 59:28.363 --> 59:31.008 the 2018 Budget Proposal would reduce 59:31.008 --> 59:34.925 a billion dollars from from the PEPFAR program. 59:38.381 --> 59:41.048 There are other policy decisions 59:41.133 --> 59:42.821 that the State Department is making 59:42.821 --> 59:45.289 that will have an impact on PEPFAR 59:45.289 --> 59:48.093 in addition to the funding reduction. 59:48.093 --> 59:50.013 As you know, the State Department in May 59:50.013 --> 59:52.176 released guidelines for the implementation 59:52.176 --> 59:56.079 of the Mexico City Policy, or the Global Gag Rule, 59:56.079 --> 59:58.912 which for the first time ever will 59:59.118 --> 01:00:02.110 apply to all global health assistance programs, 01:00:02.110 --> 01:00:03.527 including PEPFAR. 01:00:04.117 --> 01:00:07.200 Now, study after study has shown that 01:00:07.425 --> 01:00:09.333 integrating reproductive health 01:00:09.333 --> 01:00:11.718 and HIV treatment and prevention services 01:00:11.718 --> 01:00:14.385 into basic primary care services 01:00:14.793 --> 01:00:16.434 leads to better health outcomes 01:00:16.434 --> 01:00:20.147 and significant cost savings of foreign dollars. 01:00:20.147 --> 01:00:23.414 And yet, State Department in this budget 01:00:23.414 --> 01:00:27.581 proposes eliminating all funds for family planning. 01:00:28.115 --> 01:00:29.829 So, how will the State Department 01:00:29.829 --> 01:00:31.947 continue to move towards integrating 01:00:31.947 --> 01:00:35.335 HIV and reproductive health and family planning 01:00:35.335 --> 01:00:37.288 in light of the drastic cuts that 01:00:37.288 --> 01:00:40.484 are being proposed to reproductive health funding 01:00:40.484 --> 01:00:42.227 and the restrictions that you are 01:00:42.227 --> 01:00:44.894 imposing by the Global Gag Rule? 01:00:44.940 --> 01:00:46.312 - Well, first, just to be clear, 01:00:46.312 --> 01:00:48.123 the reduction to PEPFAR's $1 billion, 01:00:48.123 --> 01:00:50.373 as was pointed out earlier. 01:00:50.389 --> 01:00:53.125 - No, I understood that, it's the 01:00:53.125 --> 01:00:56.501 money for the family planning also has been cut. 01:00:56.501 --> 01:00:59.706 - The extension of the Mexico City Policy 01:00:59.706 --> 01:01:02.015 to all areas of health delivery 01:01:02.015 --> 01:01:05.993 was directed under Presidential Executive Order. 01:01:05.993 --> 01:01:08.113 And so the State Department, when we received 01:01:08.113 --> 01:01:10.308 the executive order, began immediately 01:01:10.308 --> 01:01:13.725 to work with all of the deliver services, 01:01:14.031 --> 01:01:16.519 including all of those in PEPFAR, 01:01:16.519 --> 01:01:20.040 and a number of the other NGO organizations, 01:01:20.040 --> 01:01:21.764 and important partners in the health 01:01:21.764 --> 01:01:24.681 delivery networks across the world. 01:01:25.857 --> 01:01:28.923 Our assessment, we believe, is that the impact 01:01:28.923 --> 01:01:32.677 on those service providers is going to be minimal. 01:01:32.677 --> 01:01:34.952 That is what we believe we're hearing from them. 01:01:34.952 --> 01:01:37.173 But to monitor that carefully, 01:01:37.173 --> 01:01:40.340 I have said that we will have a report 01:01:40.671 --> 01:01:44.295 to me after six months of how is this working, 01:01:44.295 --> 01:01:46.853 what has been the impact, and we've been directly 01:01:46.853 --> 01:01:50.695 engaged with a number of the major private donors, 01:01:50.695 --> 01:01:53.306 like the Gates Foundation and others, 01:01:53.306 --> 01:01:56.281 clearly working with them to say let us know 01:01:56.281 --> 01:01:59.530 how this is impeding your ability to deliver 01:01:59.530 --> 01:02:01.448 on the other parts of the health mandate 01:02:01.448 --> 01:02:03.647 that we still strongly support. 01:02:03.647 --> 01:02:05.704 So, we're obligated to implement 01:02:05.704 --> 01:02:07.532 the Presidential Executive Order. 01:02:07.532 --> 01:02:10.391 We think we found a way to do that, 01:02:10.391 --> 01:02:12.343 achieve his directive, but do it 01:02:12.343 --> 01:02:14.120 in a way that has minimal impact 01:02:14.120 --> 01:02:16.246 on our ability to deliver and minimal 01:02:16.246 --> 01:02:19.105 impact on our ability to deliver funding to 01:02:19.105 --> 01:02:21.938 PEPFAR and other related programs, 01:02:22.511 --> 01:02:24.838 and we will see how that works 01:02:24.838 --> 01:02:27.417 after about six months of operation. 01:02:27.417 --> 01:02:29.953 - And if I could just follow up, Mr. Chairman. 01:02:29.953 --> 01:02:32.703 How do you define minimum impact, 01:02:33.167 --> 01:02:35.418 because based on information that 01:02:35.418 --> 01:02:39.001 I've seen from other international sources, 01:02:40.656 --> 01:02:43.491 loosing access to family planning services 01:02:43.491 --> 01:02:46.074 will result in two million more 01:02:46.265 --> 01:02:48.959 unsafe abortions, 12,000 maternal deaths, 01:02:48.959 --> 01:02:52.080 and six million more unintended pregnancies. 01:02:52.080 --> 01:02:55.135 So, will factor that in as you're looking 01:02:55.135 --> 01:02:59.129 at the impact of this policy on the PEPFAR program? 01:02:59.129 --> 01:03:00.653 - We will factor in those elements 01:03:00.653 --> 01:03:03.301 that are covered by the president's executive order 01:03:03.301 --> 01:03:04.829 to ensure that we are implementing 01:03:04.829 --> 01:03:06.707 the order, and we are understanding 01:03:06.707 --> 01:03:08.920 whether it's impacting parts of 01:03:08.920 --> 01:03:11.466 our health programs that we did not 01:03:11.466 --> 01:03:14.299 intend by the executive to impact. 01:03:15.347 --> 01:03:16.807 - So, you're comfortable with it 01:03:16.807 --> 01:03:20.974 impacting women's health in the way I've just defined? 01:03:21.420 --> 01:03:22.426 That's a question. 01:03:22.426 --> 01:03:24.051 - We will carry it out consistent 01:03:24.051 --> 01:03:26.513 with the president's executive order. 01:03:26.513 --> 01:03:28.537 So, if certain activities and programs 01:03:28.537 --> 01:03:31.144 are excluded because of the order, 01:03:31.144 --> 01:03:33.227 we have to exclude those. 01:03:34.906 --> 01:03:35.991 - Well, Mr. Chairman, I'm certainly 01:03:35.991 --> 01:03:37.717 not comfortable with that kind of 01:03:37.717 --> 01:03:40.634 impact on women's health worldwide. 01:03:40.659 --> 01:03:42.842 - [Lindsey] Thank you, duly noted. 01:03:42.842 --> 01:03:44.175 Senator Boozman. 01:03:44.334 --> 01:03:46.157 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, 01:03:46.157 --> 01:03:47.722 Mr. Secretary for being here, 01:03:47.722 --> 01:03:49.946 and we do appreciate your service. 01:03:49.946 --> 01:03:51.983 When I was first elected to Congress, 01:03:51.983 --> 01:03:54.816 a fellow congressman, somebody who 01:03:55.535 --> 01:03:59.285 was a great coach, Tom Osborne from Nebraska, 01:03:59.428 --> 01:04:01.691 one day said, "John, if we run the same play 01:04:01.691 --> 01:04:05.400 "50 times in a row and we don't get good results, 01:04:05.400 --> 01:04:08.958 "we probably need to do something different." 01:04:08.958 --> 01:04:11.531 What he was referring to was Cuba. 01:04:11.531 --> 01:04:13.463 And we have been doing things 01:04:13.463 --> 01:04:14.919 a little bit differently lately, 01:04:14.919 --> 01:04:17.283 and I think getting some results. 01:04:17.283 --> 01:04:18.808 I'm a little bit disappointed 01:04:18.808 --> 01:04:21.808 as we hear that you all are about to 01:04:21.871 --> 01:04:23.769 reach a decision that perhaps we're gonna 01:04:23.769 --> 01:04:26.593 push back on some of the reforms that we've made, 01:04:26.593 --> 01:04:28.546 and some of the opportunities. 01:04:28.546 --> 01:04:32.613 I believe that you change the world through relationships. 01:04:32.613 --> 01:04:34.755 And also, you have to be consistent. 01:04:34.755 --> 01:04:36.493 I know that we do business with 01:04:36.493 --> 01:04:38.426 lots of people that are certainly 01:04:38.426 --> 01:04:41.443 as bad on the human rights front as the Cubans, 01:04:41.443 --> 01:04:43.705 and I could list a whole bunch of them, 01:04:43.705 --> 01:04:45.214 but I don't think we need to do that. 01:04:45.214 --> 01:04:47.043 But I think you would agree with that. 01:04:47.043 --> 01:04:49.626 Can you talk to me a little bit 01:04:49.698 --> 01:04:52.605 about kinda where we're at with that, 01:04:52.605 --> 01:04:56.438 and how you feel about the path going forward? 01:04:57.970 --> 01:04:59.493 - Well, again, as I indicated earlier, 01:04:59.493 --> 01:05:02.085 the Cuban policy is under review. 01:05:02.085 --> 01:05:03.858 In fact, there's an interagency review 01:05:03.858 --> 01:05:05.528 that's been underway today. 01:05:05.528 --> 01:05:08.068 I've been up here, so my deputy secretary's 01:05:08.068 --> 01:05:10.485 been participating in that for me. 01:05:10.485 --> 01:05:12.348 So, I don't want to get ahead 01:05:12.348 --> 01:05:14.897 of the interagency process, or tell you 01:05:14.897 --> 01:05:19.064 I know what the final policy outcomes are going to be. 01:05:19.585 --> 01:05:22.618 What I described earlier are some of the elements 01:05:22.618 --> 01:05:24.290 that I know are under discussion 01:05:24.290 --> 01:05:26.700 within the interagency process. 01:05:26.700 --> 01:05:28.951 And again, our situation in Cuba, 01:05:28.951 --> 01:05:30.826 yes, there are many other places 01:05:30.826 --> 01:05:33.823 around the world that have similar human rights issues 01:05:33.823 --> 01:05:37.990 that are problematic to us, and challenges to others. 01:05:38.745 --> 01:05:41.328 Cuba has a very long history of 01:05:41.747 --> 01:05:44.570 statutory obligations placed around it 01:05:44.570 --> 01:05:46.735 from Libertad all the way up 01:05:46.735 --> 01:05:49.798 through the most recent, I think there's four 01:05:49.798 --> 01:05:53.465 laws that govern our relationship with Cuba. 01:05:54.024 --> 01:05:56.857 As we are examining the situation, 01:05:57.236 --> 01:05:59.669 we believe it is important that 01:05:59.669 --> 01:06:02.151 we are not advancing or advocating 01:06:02.151 --> 01:06:04.866 policies that would put individuals 01:06:04.866 --> 01:06:08.098 or companies in violation of those laws. 01:06:08.098 --> 01:06:11.265 If it is the view of the United States 01:06:12.026 --> 01:06:13.845 that we want to change and redefine 01:06:13.845 --> 01:06:16.262 that relationship by removing 01:06:16.856 --> 01:06:18.806 some of these statutory requirements, 01:06:18.806 --> 01:06:22.730 I think that's a conversation that should happen. 01:06:22.730 --> 01:06:25.076 I agree that one of the best ways 01:06:25.076 --> 01:06:27.662 to improve relationships with Cuba 01:06:27.662 --> 01:06:31.829 and with other countries is through economic activity. 01:06:32.239 --> 01:06:35.167 It's the strongest way to tie our people together. 01:06:35.167 --> 01:06:38.345 It delivers value to people in the country. 01:06:38.345 --> 01:06:41.521 They improve their quality of life, all of that is good. 01:06:41.521 --> 01:06:43.664 We agree with every bit of it. 01:06:43.664 --> 01:06:45.974 What we are concerned about is not 01:06:45.974 --> 01:06:48.336 continuing to support, in any way, 01:06:48.336 --> 01:06:52.114 financially a regime which, as best we can tell, 01:06:52.114 --> 01:06:56.281 has made not change to it's posture or it's behavior. 01:06:58.562 --> 01:07:01.127 - I think a recent study said that there's 01:07:01.127 --> 01:07:05.187 $6 billion worth of economic activity, 12,000 jobs. 01:07:05.187 --> 01:07:06.589 So, it is important. 01:07:06.589 --> 01:07:08.803 I think there's tremendous potential there. 01:07:08.803 --> 01:07:11.729 But the only place I would disagree, 01:07:11.729 --> 01:07:14.979 is I think you get there by engagement. 01:07:17.627 --> 01:07:20.055 - Just so you know, there's no disagreement 01:07:20.055 --> 01:07:21.638 between us on that. 01:07:21.889 --> 01:07:22.806 - Yes, sir. 01:07:23.409 --> 01:07:26.056 And I think it's fair, you brought up 01:07:26.056 --> 01:07:29.139 that you don't wanna violate any laws 01:07:30.101 --> 01:07:32.441 that are on the books now and things. 01:07:32.441 --> 01:07:35.294 But hopefully, we can look at it, and work through, 01:07:35.294 --> 01:07:37.846 and continue the engagement that we got. 01:07:37.846 --> 01:07:40.127 As an Arkansan and someone who believes, 01:07:40.127 --> 01:07:42.808 again, as we talked about, you change the world 01:07:42.808 --> 01:07:45.401 through engagement, the Fulbright Program 01:07:45.401 --> 01:07:48.064 is something that we're proud of 01:07:48.064 --> 01:07:50.142 in the state of Arkansas. 01:07:50.142 --> 01:07:54.170 We're talking about a 47% overall cut there. 01:07:54.170 --> 01:07:57.235 I wish that would be something that you'd look at too. 01:07:57.235 --> 01:08:00.152 I was in Israel, and visiting with, 01:08:02.498 --> 01:08:05.283 I think he was the finance minister from Palestine. 01:08:05.283 --> 01:08:07.042 This was several years ago. 01:08:07.042 --> 01:08:09.172 And it turned out that he'd been to summer school 01:08:09.172 --> 01:08:10.818 at the University of Arkansas, 01:08:10.818 --> 01:08:14.985 went on and finished up at the University of Texas. 01:08:14.993 --> 01:08:18.119 So, we could laugh about that, the Arkansas Texas, 01:08:18.119 --> 01:08:20.036 he knew all that stuff. 01:08:20.260 --> 01:08:23.248 But those things are so, so, very valuable. 01:08:23.248 --> 01:08:24.829 - Well, we see the Fulbright Program 01:08:24.829 --> 01:08:26.562 as extremely valuable as well. 01:08:26.562 --> 01:08:28.177 I've had conversations with former 01:08:28.177 --> 01:08:30.927 Senator Kerry who's very engaged. 01:08:31.072 --> 01:08:33.974 Our reduction in the budget, as you know, 01:08:33.974 --> 01:08:37.905 the Fulbright Program also received private donations, 01:08:37.905 --> 01:08:41.166 so our 45% cut translates, I think, 01:08:41.166 --> 01:08:44.098 into about a third reduction for them. 01:08:44.098 --> 01:08:46.123 We understand it will have an impact. 01:08:46.123 --> 01:08:48.839 What we wanna do is, to the extent we can help 01:08:48.839 --> 01:08:51.839 in attracting more private donations 01:08:53.414 --> 01:08:55.053 to support the program, and perhaps 01:08:55.053 --> 01:08:58.030 begin to attract donations from countries 01:08:58.030 --> 01:09:01.316 who have benefited from the Fulbright Program as well. 01:09:01.316 --> 01:09:03.797 So, it is not in any way an indication 01:09:03.797 --> 01:09:06.683 of our view of the value of that program. 01:09:06.683 --> 01:09:08.403 - I think Mark Green is an excellent 01:09:08.403 --> 01:09:10.713 choice USAID, and I congratulate you 01:09:10.713 --> 01:09:12.463 on your choice there. 01:09:12.976 --> 01:09:14.912 Can you talk just for a second about 01:09:14.912 --> 01:09:18.358 the reorganization process that you're going through, 01:09:18.358 --> 01:09:21.497 and commit to working with the committee 01:09:21.497 --> 01:09:24.330 to make sure that the changes that 01:09:24.458 --> 01:09:26.031 you're in the process of doing, 01:09:26.031 --> 01:09:29.531 that they're sustainable as we go forward. 01:09:30.570 --> 01:09:31.907 - Well, as I indicated, we have 01:09:31.907 --> 01:09:33.996 just completed what I think is, 01:09:33.996 --> 01:09:35.801 having done this in the private sector 01:09:35.801 --> 01:09:39.006 once or twice and in a big nonprofit once, 01:09:39.006 --> 01:09:40.692 there's a process that I know 01:09:40.692 --> 01:09:43.090 has delivered for me in the past. 01:09:43.090 --> 01:09:46.196 So, we just concluded this listening effort 01:09:46.196 --> 01:09:48.554 which will inform us and shape 01:09:48.554 --> 01:09:50.721 how we feel we need to now attack 01:09:50.721 --> 01:09:53.471 the redesign and the way forward. 01:09:53.840 --> 01:09:55.706 I've interviewed a couple of individuals 01:09:55.706 --> 01:09:59.039 to come in and help me lead that effort. 01:09:59.518 --> 01:10:02.735 I think we will finalize the listening report 01:10:02.735 --> 01:10:04.322 here in the next few weeks, and we're gonna 01:10:04.322 --> 01:10:07.497 make that available so people can see that. 01:10:07.497 --> 01:10:09.581 Out of that report though, there are about 01:10:09.581 --> 01:10:11.728 13 themes that emerged, and these 01:10:11.728 --> 01:10:13.682 were extremely valuable to begin to 01:10:13.682 --> 01:10:17.436 help us focus on where are the greatest opportunities 01:10:17.436 --> 01:10:19.415 to remove obstacles for people, 01:10:19.415 --> 01:10:21.102 because that's really what this is about 01:10:21.102 --> 01:10:23.931 is how do we allow people to get their work done 01:10:23.931 --> 01:10:26.298 more effectively, more efficiently. 01:10:26.298 --> 01:10:28.630 And we will be going after the redesign. 01:10:28.630 --> 01:10:31.420 Some of this is internal processes, 01:10:31.420 --> 01:10:33.029 some of it is structural, some of it are 01:10:33.029 --> 01:10:35.696 constraints that, quite frankly, 01:10:35.908 --> 01:10:37.292 Congress puts on us through some 01:10:37.292 --> 01:10:40.008 of the appropriation structures, and I understand, 01:10:40.008 --> 01:10:43.877 all well intended to ensure accountability and oversight, 01:10:43.877 --> 01:10:46.268 but it ends up adding a lot of layers. 01:10:46.268 --> 01:10:48.139 So, we're gonna be getting at that. 01:10:48.139 --> 01:10:50.806 We hope to have the way forward, 01:10:51.261 --> 01:10:54.369 the next step, framed here in the kinda 01:10:54.369 --> 01:10:56.339 August time frames, so that we can 01:10:56.339 --> 01:11:00.506 then begin the redesign process itself, September. 01:11:00.805 --> 01:11:02.297 I'm hoping we can have all of that 01:11:02.297 --> 01:11:04.906 concluded by the end of the calendar year. 01:11:04.906 --> 01:11:07.111 Then 18 will be a year of how do we 01:11:07.111 --> 01:11:09.942 implement this now, how do we effect the change, 01:11:09.942 --> 01:11:12.553 and begin to get that into place. 01:11:12.553 --> 01:11:14.803 - Thank you, Mr. Secretary. 01:11:15.821 --> 01:11:17.099 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 01:11:17.099 --> 01:11:18.306 Let me associate myself with 01:11:18.306 --> 01:11:19.828 the chairman's opening remarks. 01:11:19.828 --> 01:11:21.799 I thought it was a brilliant presentation 01:11:21.799 --> 01:11:25.032 that puts in perspective why we're here today. 01:11:25.032 --> 01:11:29.199 Mr. Secretary, I've already said it on the record once, 01:11:30.318 --> 01:11:32.190 and that's the only time I'm ever gonna say it. 01:11:32.190 --> 01:11:35.067 No seriously, I do respect what you said earlier. 01:11:35.067 --> 01:11:36.802 Mr. Secretary, I come in this same room, 01:11:36.802 --> 01:11:39.550 and I sit down as ranking member on the Defense Committee. 01:11:39.550 --> 01:11:40.972 I listen to your explanation of how 01:11:40.972 --> 01:11:43.627 a 30% cut is not that bad, that money 01:11:43.627 --> 01:11:45.154 isn't the solution to problem, 01:11:45.154 --> 01:11:47.897 just need creative people and innovative thinking. 01:11:47.897 --> 01:11:49.226 I never hear that when we're 01:11:49.226 --> 01:11:50.702 talking about the defense budget. 01:11:50.702 --> 01:11:53.563 They always need more money, more, and more, and more. 01:11:53.563 --> 01:11:55.082 And yet, when it comes to a world 01:11:55.082 --> 01:11:58.371 that is plagued by famine and the problems that we face, 01:11:58.371 --> 01:11:59.891 we're just saying we really 01:11:59.891 --> 01:12:01.490 don't need money to solve problems. 01:12:01.490 --> 01:12:03.890 It turns out my experience in life is, 01:12:03.890 --> 01:12:05.995 you don't solve a problem by throwing money at it, 01:12:05.995 --> 01:12:08.557 unless the problem is lack of money. 01:12:08.557 --> 01:12:10.401 And when it comes to the poorest people on earth, 01:12:10.401 --> 01:12:12.881 it's lack of money, lack of investments 01:12:12.881 --> 01:12:15.139 in these people and in their lives. 01:12:15.139 --> 01:12:16.982 And I take a look at some of the things 01:12:16.982 --> 01:12:18.239 that are being suggested here, 01:12:18.239 --> 01:12:20.626 I am embarrassed, I am embarrassed 01:12:20.626 --> 01:12:22.005 the policy of this country now 01:12:22.005 --> 01:12:25.616 when it comes to accepting refugees in the world. 01:12:25.616 --> 01:12:27.487 Since, World War II, we've lead the world 01:12:27.487 --> 01:12:30.096 in accepting refugees from all over. 01:12:30.096 --> 01:12:32.407 Cuba, three of our four Hispanic senators 01:12:32.407 --> 01:12:34.904 are from Cuban refugee families. 01:12:34.904 --> 01:12:36.925 I mean, you go through all of the people 01:12:36.925 --> 01:12:39.333 that we've absorbed as refugees in to this country, 01:12:39.333 --> 01:12:41.767 and we know the policy of the Trump administration 01:12:41.767 --> 01:12:43.948 apposes acceptance of refugees. 01:12:43.948 --> 01:12:45.618 Thank goodness there are heroes 01:12:45.618 --> 01:12:47.942 in this world like the king of Jordan. 01:12:47.942 --> 01:12:51.525 Currently Jordan has absorbed three or four 01:12:51.653 --> 01:12:55.820 million refugees in a nation of seven million people. 01:12:55.915 --> 01:12:58.255 It is an incredible act of kindness 01:12:58.255 --> 01:13:00.384 and charity on their part, and bravery 01:13:00.384 --> 01:13:02.352 when you consider the political risk. 01:13:02.352 --> 01:13:05.427 So, what does this budget do to Jordan? 01:13:05.427 --> 01:13:08.965 This cuts by 18% migration and refugee assistance 01:13:08.965 --> 01:13:10.859 to countries like Jordan. 01:13:10.859 --> 01:13:12.466 We're not accepting refugees, 01:13:12.466 --> 01:13:14.196 and we're saying to the countries that are, 01:13:14.196 --> 01:13:16.185 "We're gonna cut your funding." 01:13:16.185 --> 01:13:18.208 Think of a more creative way to feed 01:13:18.208 --> 01:13:21.875 those refugees, 1.4 million Syrian refugees. 01:13:22.408 --> 01:13:25.353 It just doesn't work, Mr. Secretary, 01:13:25.353 --> 01:13:29.242 for us to walk away from our global responsibility, 01:13:29.242 --> 01:13:31.376 and then to hurt those who are 01:13:31.376 --> 01:13:33.414 accepting much more than others. 01:13:33.414 --> 01:13:35.113 How would you respond to the King of Jordan 01:13:35.113 --> 01:13:36.432 and explain why we would cut funds 01:13:36.432 --> 01:13:38.485 to him at this moment in history? 01:13:38.485 --> 01:13:39.820 - Well, I would take acception 01:13:39.820 --> 01:13:41.096 to the comment that we're walking 01:13:41.096 --> 01:13:44.424 away from our responsibilities in that region, 01:13:44.424 --> 01:13:47.343 with all of the men and women in uniform we have fighting, 01:13:47.343 --> 01:13:49.722 and the State Department and diplomatic 01:13:49.722 --> 01:13:52.889 resources we have to get at the reason 01:13:52.930 --> 01:13:55.180 the refugees are in Jordan. 01:13:55.311 --> 01:13:57.280 And I would tell you, in working with the region, 01:13:57.280 --> 01:14:00.280 they all understand, Turkey, Jordan, 01:14:00.353 --> 01:14:02.929 others understand we'd like the refugees 01:14:02.929 --> 01:14:06.297 to stay close to their homes so they can go back. 01:14:06.297 --> 01:14:07.314 Having them come all the way to 01:14:07.314 --> 01:14:10.564 the United States may not achieve that. 01:14:12.005 --> 01:14:14.111 So, our approach on the significant 01:14:14.111 --> 01:14:16.855 problem of refugee migration locally 01:14:16.855 --> 01:14:20.562 is to solve the problem that allows people to go home. 01:14:20.562 --> 01:14:23.312 We have already seen some success 01:14:23.406 --> 01:14:27.073 in the liberation of Mosul and other cities. 01:14:27.254 --> 01:14:28.978 We hope to replicate that kind 01:14:28.978 --> 01:14:31.601 of success in Syria, where we have 01:14:31.601 --> 01:14:33.881 come behind the military quickly 01:14:33.881 --> 01:14:36.497 when they librate an area, create a secure zone, 01:14:36.497 --> 01:14:39.762 restore power and water, restore hospitals, restore schools. 01:14:39.762 --> 01:14:41.989 We have close to 40,000 children 01:14:41.989 --> 01:14:44.289 back in school in East Mosul already. 01:14:44.289 --> 01:14:48.194 People will come back if we create the conditions. 01:14:48.194 --> 01:14:51.001 So, we really want refugees to return. 01:14:51.001 --> 01:14:53.012 It's not the objective to have Jordan 01:14:53.012 --> 01:14:54.803 have to house those refugees 01:14:54.803 --> 01:14:55.916 now and forever more. - Of course it's not, 01:14:55.916 --> 01:14:58.152 Mr. Secretary, but thank goodness for 01:14:58.152 --> 01:14:59.537 the king of Jordan, and I hope 01:14:59.537 --> 01:15:00.708 you feel that way about him too. 01:15:00.708 --> 01:15:01.541 - I certainly do. 01:15:01.541 --> 01:15:02.642 - While we're trying to solve a problem 01:15:02.642 --> 01:15:04.151 in Syria, and I know American's 01:15:04.151 --> 01:15:05.659 are risking their lives in that effort, 01:15:05.659 --> 01:15:07.291 while we're trying to solve it, 01:15:07.291 --> 01:15:08.516 this man is trying to make sure 01:15:08.516 --> 01:15:12.683 that the people, the Syrian refugees, have something to eat. 01:15:13.559 --> 01:15:16.903 He told me their biggest problem is water. 01:15:16.903 --> 01:15:18.507 They don't have enough water to accommodate 01:15:18.507 --> 01:15:21.446 all these refugees, and we're gonna cut the funding? 01:15:21.446 --> 01:15:23.050 Let me tell you another situation, 01:15:23.050 --> 01:15:24.590 which I'm sure your aware of. 01:15:24.590 --> 01:15:27.522 If you go in the poorest places on Earth, 01:15:27.522 --> 01:15:30.136 what you find, sadly, is a gross 01:15:30.136 --> 01:15:32.671 mistreatment of little girls and women. 01:15:32.671 --> 01:15:34.991 It happens over and over again. 01:15:34.991 --> 01:15:37.488 And so, a fellow by the name of George McGovern, 01:15:37.488 --> 01:15:39.118 who used to sit in this spot, 01:15:39.118 --> 01:15:42.326 and was a great leader in our nation before he passed, 01:15:42.326 --> 01:15:44.568 came up with an idea, he came up with 01:15:44.568 --> 01:15:46.872 an idea of a school lunch program. 01:15:46.872 --> 01:15:48.511 And you know who joined him in that idea? 01:15:48.511 --> 01:15:52.087 Bob Dole, an old alliance and partnership was revived. 01:15:52.087 --> 01:15:53.759 And here's the idea they had. 01:15:53.759 --> 01:15:56.420 If we offer a free lunch to kids 01:15:56.420 --> 01:15:58.849 in the poorest places on Earth, 01:15:58.849 --> 01:16:02.607 we think parents will send their little girls to school. 01:16:02.607 --> 01:16:05.191 Just basic, that's what they did, 01:16:05.191 --> 01:16:08.290 the McGovern Dole School Feeding Program. 01:16:08.290 --> 01:16:11.457 And then to add another element to it, 01:16:12.060 --> 01:16:14.200 they gave the kids a little bag of grain 01:16:14.200 --> 01:16:16.585 to take home from school, so the parents 01:16:16.585 --> 01:16:19.026 couldn't wait to get the little girl off to school. 01:16:19.026 --> 01:16:20.555 What's the difference in the poorest 01:16:20.555 --> 01:16:22.327 places in the world between an educated 01:16:22.327 --> 01:16:24.827 and an uneducated little girl? 01:16:25.027 --> 01:16:26.309 I can tell you what it is. 01:16:26.309 --> 01:16:28.185 The uneducated little girl will be a slave, 01:16:28.185 --> 01:16:30.596 probably married off at an early age, 01:16:30.596 --> 01:16:33.899 probably bearing children long before she should. 01:16:33.899 --> 01:16:35.783 And maybe those children will survive, 01:16:35.783 --> 01:16:36.956 and maybe they won't. 01:16:36.956 --> 01:16:38.655 And then we'll have overpopulation problems. 01:16:38.655 --> 01:16:42.008 But if they finish school, the opposite is the case. 01:16:42.008 --> 01:16:44.332 And so, what did your budget decide to do 01:16:44.332 --> 01:16:48.165 to this McGovern Dole School Feeding Program? 01:16:48.181 --> 01:16:49.681 You eliminated it. 01:16:50.425 --> 01:16:51.758 Now, is that gonna make for a 01:16:51.758 --> 01:16:54.341 better world and a safer world? 01:16:56.494 --> 01:16:58.169 - Senator, what we are attempting to do 01:16:58.169 --> 01:17:00.752 is to marshal forces of others. 01:17:01.142 --> 01:17:02.969 We are talking to other countries 01:17:02.969 --> 01:17:06.052 and asking them to do more to step in 01:17:06.109 --> 01:17:08.311 to fill in some of the needs that Jordan 01:17:08.311 --> 01:17:11.153 has in the refugee camps, same in Turkey. 01:17:11.153 --> 01:17:14.165 So, we are using our convening authority 01:17:14.165 --> 01:17:17.561 to bring to bear other resources as well. 01:17:17.561 --> 01:17:19.808 These are some of the very difficult choices 01:17:19.808 --> 01:17:22.725 we made in achieving a budget level 01:17:22.759 --> 01:17:25.561 that we have put forth in this budget. 01:17:25.561 --> 01:17:28.004 None of these choices are easy, none of them. 01:17:28.004 --> 01:17:32.171 There's not a one of them that was not difficult to make. 01:17:32.355 --> 01:17:34.831 And so, I do not take acception 01:17:34.831 --> 01:17:38.664 to anything you said, at all, and would agree. 01:17:38.887 --> 01:17:41.248 So, what we are going to attempt to do 01:17:41.248 --> 01:17:42.970 is see if we can bring other resources 01:17:42.970 --> 01:17:45.970 to bear to either fill in, mitigate, 01:17:46.188 --> 01:17:48.666 or perhaps grow out interest of others 01:17:48.666 --> 01:17:50.435 to address these same issues. 01:17:50.435 --> 01:17:53.062 - So, our message to the world is we're stepping back, 01:17:53.062 --> 01:17:55.204 America's first in stepping back now, 01:17:55.204 --> 01:17:57.756 we're stepping back by 30% in our expenditures, 01:17:57.756 --> 01:17:59.099 we're eliminating these programs, 01:17:59.099 --> 01:18:02.002 and you are welcome to fill in to the rest of the world. 01:18:02.002 --> 01:18:05.136 That is our message, the America first message? 01:18:05.136 --> 01:18:07.930 - Our message is we're leaning in and asking 01:18:07.930 --> 01:18:10.961 all of you, all of you, to step up and do more. 01:18:10.961 --> 01:18:13.634 - I think we're leaning on, we're not leaning in, 01:18:13.634 --> 01:18:17.360 and we're leaning on the poorest people on Earth. 01:18:17.360 --> 01:18:19.943 - [Lindsey] Senator Van Hollen. 01:18:23.785 --> 01:18:26.272 - Thank you Mr. Chairman, and welcome, 01:18:26.272 --> 01:18:29.267 Mr. Secretary, good to have you here. 01:18:29.267 --> 01:18:31.595 And I too wanna associate myself 01:18:31.595 --> 01:18:33.868 with the remarks about the chairman 01:18:33.868 --> 01:18:36.087 and the ranking member, regarding 01:18:36.087 --> 01:18:38.231 the State Department budget. 01:18:38.231 --> 01:18:41.355 I do believe that cuts of this magnitude 01:18:41.355 --> 01:18:43.643 diminish our influence overseas. 01:18:43.643 --> 01:18:45.567 It will diminish our capacity 01:18:45.567 --> 01:18:47.495 to accomplish some of our goals. 01:18:47.495 --> 01:18:49.912 I'm all for creative reforms, 01:18:49.981 --> 01:18:53.981 where the goal is a better operating department, 01:18:54.298 --> 01:18:56.916 rather than trying to hit an arbitrary 01:18:56.916 --> 01:18:59.198 budget number that was provided 01:18:59.198 --> 01:19:02.698 to the State Department by OMB and others. 01:19:02.760 --> 01:19:06.927 There's a big difference between those two things. 01:19:07.178 --> 01:19:08.571 I wanna talk to you a little bit 01:19:08.571 --> 01:19:11.821 about Russia and legislation the Senate 01:19:13.281 --> 01:19:17.114 will soon take up regarding Russian sanctions. 01:19:17.152 --> 01:19:19.846 I know that you previously stated 01:19:19.846 --> 01:19:23.596 what every intelligence agency has concluded, 01:19:23.684 --> 01:19:26.254 that there was Russian interference in our elections. 01:19:26.254 --> 01:19:27.671 Is that the case? 01:19:28.258 --> 01:19:29.091 - Yes. 01:19:29.325 --> 01:19:31.177 - And I'm not here to debate whether it was 01:19:31.177 --> 01:19:34.331 a decisive intervention or not, but they interfered. 01:19:34.331 --> 01:19:36.707 And you would also agree, would you not, 01:19:36.707 --> 01:19:39.072 that they are attempting to interfere 01:19:39.072 --> 01:19:41.268 in the elections of many of our NATO allies, 01:19:41.268 --> 01:19:43.255 as in the Netherlands or France? 01:19:43.255 --> 01:19:44.834 - It certainly appears that way. 01:19:44.834 --> 01:19:45.667 - It does. 01:19:45.840 --> 01:19:49.173 And so, would you also agree that Russia 01:19:50.191 --> 01:19:54.024 would prefer a weaker NATO to a stronger NATO? 01:19:54.572 --> 01:19:56.658 - In all likelihood, they would. 01:19:56.658 --> 01:19:58.075 - I think so too. 01:19:58.145 --> 01:20:00.165 So, I guess my question, Mr. Secretary, 01:20:00.165 --> 01:20:01.864 is do you agree with Senator Graham 01:20:01.864 --> 01:20:03.710 and Senator McCain, I think probably 01:20:03.710 --> 01:20:05.400 a majority of us on this committee 01:20:05.400 --> 01:20:08.900 on a bipartisan basis, that it's important 01:20:09.991 --> 01:20:12.241 to take additional actions, 01:20:12.570 --> 01:20:15.570 and sanction Russia to let them know 01:20:17.266 --> 01:20:19.587 that you cannot interfere in our 01:20:19.587 --> 01:20:22.587 elections and just get away with it. 01:20:23.155 --> 01:20:26.301 That the United States is not gonna walk away 01:20:26.301 --> 01:20:29.315 from that kind of attack on our democracy. 01:20:29.315 --> 01:20:31.065 Isn't that important? 01:20:31.697 --> 01:20:33.410 - Well, it certainly is important, 01:20:33.410 --> 01:20:36.910 Senator, and I think one of the challenges 01:20:37.180 --> 01:20:39.465 is how to structure these sanctions 01:20:39.465 --> 01:20:41.882 to achieve the desired result 01:20:41.957 --> 01:20:44.057 in the case of the current sanctions 01:20:44.057 --> 01:20:45.949 as you know that are in place, 01:20:45.949 --> 01:20:47.954 we're in response to Russia's invasion 01:20:47.954 --> 01:20:50.371 of Ukraine, taking of Crimea. 01:20:52.257 --> 01:20:55.620 So, Russia understands what has to be done 01:20:55.620 --> 01:20:59.787 to achieve sanctions relief on the current sanctions. 01:21:00.788 --> 01:21:03.871 The issue and the outrageous response 01:21:04.585 --> 01:21:08.252 they should receive for their cyber meddling 01:21:08.365 --> 01:21:12.363 around elections, so we can put sanctions in place, 01:21:12.363 --> 01:21:15.113 what do we want from the Russians 01:21:15.430 --> 01:21:17.809 in order for them to earn sanctions relief. 01:21:17.809 --> 01:21:19.567 I'm not suggesting we shouldn't do it. 01:21:19.567 --> 01:21:23.093 I'm just pointing out from a diplomat's perspective 01:21:23.093 --> 01:21:25.010 some of the challenges. 01:21:25.368 --> 01:21:28.618 I do think, and I've read the amendment 01:21:29.593 --> 01:21:31.011 to the Iran sanctions bill 01:21:31.011 --> 01:21:32.550 which is where the Russian sanctions 01:21:32.550 --> 01:21:34.300 are being considered. 01:21:34.494 --> 01:21:36.956 I think there are a few problematic 01:21:36.956 --> 01:21:39.956 areas within those that I would hope 01:21:40.963 --> 01:21:43.796 would allow the diplomatic efforts 01:21:44.192 --> 01:21:46.942 to attempt to make some progress. 01:21:48.258 --> 01:21:49.904 If we cannot make progress, 01:21:49.904 --> 01:21:51.966 and I have told others in the Senate 01:21:51.966 --> 01:21:54.447 when I've had conversations with them, 01:21:54.447 --> 01:21:56.135 I may very well be calling you 01:21:56.135 --> 01:21:58.883 and saying, the time has come now 01:21:58.883 --> 01:22:00.965 to do this in order to motivate 01:22:00.965 --> 01:22:03.298 some movement on their part. 01:22:03.606 --> 01:22:06.439 So, I understand and am supportive 01:22:07.176 --> 01:22:09.759 of having that kind of ability. 01:22:09.910 --> 01:22:12.266 I think the question is given 01:22:12.266 --> 01:22:15.099 where we are and we don't know yet 01:22:15.109 --> 01:22:17.060 whether these efforts we have in 01:22:17.060 --> 01:22:19.344 place are going to bear fruit. 01:22:19.344 --> 01:22:21.538 Ultimately, it's gonna take a little time, 01:22:21.538 --> 01:22:23.576 but as I said earlier, I think it is 01:22:23.576 --> 01:22:27.159 important that we address the situation and 01:22:28.407 --> 01:22:30.693 the relationship we have today which I do not 01:22:30.693 --> 01:22:34.045 believe is in the interest of the United States 01:22:34.045 --> 01:22:36.601 nor the interest of stability in the world, 01:22:36.601 --> 01:22:39.014 and we can either deteriorate it further, 01:22:39.014 --> 01:22:41.477 or we can try to stabilize and improve it, 01:22:41.477 --> 01:22:45.644 and right now this is an effort that is in progress. 01:22:46.341 --> 01:22:48.168 - I understand, Mr. Secretary, 01:22:48.168 --> 01:22:51.418 and I think all of us would like to see 01:22:53.483 --> 01:22:56.109 the Russians take the actions that 01:22:56.109 --> 01:22:58.859 indicate to us that they wanna be 01:22:59.590 --> 01:23:02.055 a constructive international player. 01:23:02.055 --> 01:23:05.055 But as you know, the first challenge 01:23:05.550 --> 01:23:07.076 when you're tackling a problem 01:23:07.076 --> 01:23:09.697 is to get the other side to admit that 01:23:09.697 --> 01:23:12.776 they've engaged in this kind of activity. 01:23:12.776 --> 01:23:14.724 Have they indicated to you in any of 01:23:14.724 --> 01:23:16.202 these conversations, have they admitted 01:23:16.202 --> 01:23:17.442 they interfered in our elections 01:23:17.442 --> 01:23:18.815 in any of your conversations? 01:23:18.815 --> 01:23:21.648 - I think their position and their 01:23:21.886 --> 01:23:24.313 explanation of it is pretty public, 01:23:24.313 --> 01:23:26.104 and I've heard nothing any different. 01:23:26.104 --> 01:23:27.109 - Well, that's right. 01:23:27.109 --> 01:23:29.018 So, now we're at a position where 01:23:29.018 --> 01:23:30.490 they haven't even admitted it, right? 01:23:30.490 --> 01:23:32.808 You've got Vladimir Putin talking about 01:23:32.808 --> 01:23:35.297 maybe some private citizens in Russia, 01:23:35.297 --> 01:23:36.760 you know, played hanky panky. 01:23:36.760 --> 01:23:37.851 We know that's not true. 01:23:37.851 --> 01:23:39.291 We know it was a concerted effort. 01:23:39.291 --> 01:23:41.060 We've seen it, not only in the United States, 01:23:41.060 --> 01:23:42.824 but with our NATO allies. 01:23:42.824 --> 01:23:45.491 And so, to even be talking about 01:23:45.642 --> 01:23:47.848 providing them access to the compound 01:23:47.848 --> 01:23:49.397 on the eastern shore of Maryland, 01:23:49.397 --> 01:23:52.878 my state, or others, instead of leaning forward 01:23:52.878 --> 01:23:54.792 and saying, "Here's what we're gonna do, 01:23:54.792 --> 01:23:57.385 "unless, number one, you admit what you did, 01:23:57.385 --> 01:23:59.501 "and number two, you're gonna provide 01:23:59.501 --> 01:24:02.213 "us verifiable assurances that it won't happen again." 01:24:02.213 --> 01:24:06.046 It seems to me we gotta lean in on that issue. 01:24:06.777 --> 01:24:10.110 Let me ask you a budget related question 01:24:12.018 --> 01:24:14.935 with respect to the verification of the Iran agreement. 01:24:14.935 --> 01:24:16.882 We're also gonna be discussing 01:24:16.882 --> 01:24:19.965 legislation related to that agreement 01:24:20.491 --> 01:24:23.824 because on April 18th the administration 01:24:24.698 --> 01:24:26.531 certified to the Congress that Iran was, 01:24:26.531 --> 01:24:28.995 in fact, in compliance of the current agreement. 01:24:28.995 --> 01:24:30.131 Isn't that right? 01:24:30.131 --> 01:24:31.274 - That's correct. 01:24:31.274 --> 01:24:32.506 - And you would agree, would you not, 01:24:32.506 --> 01:24:34.428 that it's in our national security interest 01:24:34.428 --> 01:24:37.727 to make sure we have in place the ability to verify 01:24:37.727 --> 01:24:39.980 Iranian compliance with the agreement? 01:24:39.980 --> 01:24:41.751 - Yes, it is, but I would also tell you 01:24:41.751 --> 01:24:44.685 under that agreement, it's a pretty low bar. 01:24:44.685 --> 01:24:46.333 - Well, I would beg to differ, 01:24:46.333 --> 01:24:47.896 but I think what we should agree on, 01:24:47.896 --> 01:24:50.199 Mr. Secretary, is that the IAEA, 01:24:50.199 --> 01:24:51.653 which monitors that agreement, 01:24:51.653 --> 01:24:53.027 should have the resources to do it. 01:24:53.027 --> 01:24:54.214 Would you agree with that? 01:24:54.214 --> 01:24:55.094 - Certainly. 01:24:55.094 --> 01:24:57.844 - Okay, well, part of your budget 01:24:58.746 --> 01:25:02.913 calls for a 27% reduction to the contributions 01:25:03.437 --> 01:25:06.020 to international organizations, 01:25:06.818 --> 01:25:09.651 and those mandatory contributions, 01:25:09.669 --> 01:25:12.419 many of them go to fund the IAEA, 01:25:12.744 --> 01:25:15.433 which has indicated that they need 01:25:15.433 --> 01:25:18.183 those resources to verify Iranian 01:25:19.374 --> 01:25:21.940 compliance with the nuclear agreement. 01:25:21.940 --> 01:25:23.347 So, can you tell us today that 01:25:23.347 --> 01:25:25.192 the United States will insure that 01:25:25.192 --> 01:25:28.665 we provide our share of the funds necessary 01:25:28.665 --> 01:25:30.662 to make sure that they can verify 01:25:30.662 --> 01:25:32.361 compliance with that agreement? 01:25:32.361 --> 01:25:34.451 - The cuts to the international organizations 01:25:34.451 --> 01:25:36.096 budget, which as you mentioned, 01:25:36.096 --> 01:25:39.179 touches on a number of organizations, 01:25:39.591 --> 01:25:41.508 UN, World Health, IAEA. 01:25:42.269 --> 01:25:44.189 How we would distribute those 01:25:44.189 --> 01:25:46.392 is under a continued discussion 01:25:46.392 --> 01:25:48.681 with the bureaus and those agencies 01:25:48.681 --> 01:25:51.355 so that we have as best an understanding 01:25:51.355 --> 01:25:54.622 as we have as to how that would effect them. 01:25:54.622 --> 01:25:57.206 But it is our intention that the IAEA 01:25:57.206 --> 01:25:59.597 have all the resources it needs 01:25:59.597 --> 01:26:01.404 to carry out it's responsibilities 01:26:01.404 --> 01:26:04.404 on the compliance side of the JCPOA. 01:26:04.523 --> 01:26:06.310 - I appreciate that commitment, Secretary. 01:26:06.310 --> 01:26:08.854 I think that's important to all of us. 01:26:08.854 --> 01:26:09.862 - [Lindsey] Senator Coons. 01:26:09.862 --> 01:26:10.860 - Thank you, Chairman Graham. 01:26:10.860 --> 01:26:12.780 Thank you, Secretary Tillerson 01:26:12.780 --> 01:26:14.289 for your service and the chance 01:26:14.289 --> 01:26:16.164 to be with you again today. 01:26:16.164 --> 01:26:18.747 I'm struck at the list that the 01:26:19.197 --> 01:26:20.798 chairman put up and the detailed 01:26:20.798 --> 01:26:22.250 and thorough presentation he made 01:26:22.250 --> 01:26:24.325 about the unsettled and dangerous 01:26:24.325 --> 01:26:27.312 and difficult world in which we currently operate, 01:26:27.312 --> 01:26:30.204 and the gap with your written presentation 01:26:30.204 --> 01:26:31.724 and spoken presentation. 01:26:31.724 --> 01:26:33.929 I see here Russian aggression 01:26:33.929 --> 01:26:37.624 and conflict in Ukraine relatively prominent. 01:26:37.624 --> 01:26:39.342 And I did not see that in your 01:26:39.342 --> 01:26:41.353 written testimony or spoken testimony. 01:26:41.353 --> 01:26:43.812 And I'm concerned about that gap. 01:26:43.812 --> 01:26:46.038 In the context of a narrow win, 01:26:46.038 --> 01:26:48.731 we know that Russia, from the very highest levels, 01:26:48.731 --> 01:26:50.332 intentionally interfered in our last 01:26:50.332 --> 01:26:53.582 presidential elections, and in my view, 01:26:53.824 --> 01:26:56.199 that's only gonna stop when we stop it. 01:26:56.199 --> 01:26:57.843 And I understand we may have a difference 01:26:57.843 --> 01:26:59.837 of approach to how to engage 01:26:59.837 --> 01:27:01.620 Vladimir Putin and Russia, 01:27:01.620 --> 01:27:03.708 but I have a concern about the message 01:27:03.708 --> 01:27:05.570 we're sending to our vital allies. 01:27:05.570 --> 01:27:08.156 I am haunted by a question asked of me 01:27:08.156 --> 01:27:09.916 by an Eastern European diplomat 01:27:09.916 --> 01:27:12.115 at the Halifax Security Forum 01:27:12.115 --> 01:27:13.639 not long after the inauguration, 01:27:13.639 --> 01:27:15.387 where he said, "How can we count on you 01:27:15.387 --> 01:27:18.210 "do defend our democracy when don't 01:27:18.210 --> 01:27:21.342 "see you defending your own democracy?" 01:27:21.342 --> 01:27:23.307 In your confirmation hearing you 01:27:23.307 --> 01:27:25.879 acknowledged Russia's ongoing efforts 01:27:25.879 --> 01:27:28.496 to divide Europe from the United States 01:27:28.496 --> 01:27:31.371 and to divide NATO and the EU within, 01:27:31.371 --> 01:27:33.081 and we discussed how you would lead 01:27:33.081 --> 01:27:34.947 the resources of the State Department 01:27:34.947 --> 01:27:36.594 to counter Russian propaganda 01:27:36.594 --> 01:27:38.993 through tools like Radio Free Europe, 01:27:38.993 --> 01:27:41.174 and how you would invest in strengthening 01:27:41.174 --> 01:27:42.503 our vital allies in the region, 01:27:42.503 --> 01:27:44.415 whether NATO, or as has been mentioned, 01:27:44.415 --> 01:27:46.238 countries like Georgia or Ukraine 01:27:46.238 --> 01:27:48.064 that are not NATO members. 01:27:48.064 --> 01:27:51.171 If I understand this right, your FY 18 request 01:27:51.171 --> 01:27:53.838 for Europe and Eurasia is nearly 01:27:54.279 --> 01:27:58.029 cut in half from FY 16 by about $450 million. 01:27:58.555 --> 01:28:01.453 What is the strategy behind decreasing 01:28:01.453 --> 01:28:04.306 support for our partners and allies in 01:28:04.306 --> 01:28:06.884 the region in the face of the clear and growing 01:28:06.884 --> 01:28:10.634 Russian threat to their democracies and ours? 01:28:11.076 --> 01:28:13.505 - Well, first let me position the situation 01:28:13.505 --> 01:28:16.479 with Russia for you so you understand 01:28:16.479 --> 01:28:19.812 what I am hearing from allies, partners, 01:28:20.690 --> 01:28:24.607 large and small, and this is without exception, 01:28:25.171 --> 01:28:29.169 I have yet to have a bilateral, a one-on-one, a pull aside, 01:28:29.169 --> 01:28:33.336 with a single counterpart in any country in Europe, 01:28:34.417 --> 01:28:37.237 the Middle East, even Southeast Asia, 01:28:37.237 --> 01:28:40.240 that has not said to me, "Please address 01:28:40.240 --> 01:28:42.333 "your relationship with Russia. 01:28:42.333 --> 01:28:44.288 "It has to be improved." 01:28:44.288 --> 01:28:47.602 They believe worsening this relationship 01:28:47.602 --> 01:28:50.547 will ultimately worsen their situation. 01:28:50.547 --> 01:28:53.297 So, people have been imploring me 01:28:54.200 --> 01:28:57.783 to engage and try to improve the situation. 01:28:58.583 --> 01:29:01.040 Now, that was our approach anyway. 01:29:01.040 --> 01:29:02.379 But I would just tell you the feedback 01:29:02.379 --> 01:29:05.268 I'm getting is please engage, and see if 01:29:05.268 --> 01:29:07.327 you can improve the situation, 01:29:07.327 --> 01:29:10.519 with respect to the tools available to us, 01:29:10.519 --> 01:29:13.352 we do maintain particular emphasis 01:29:14.731 --> 01:29:17.310 on the countries we see in Europe 01:29:17.310 --> 01:29:20.365 that are most at risk of Russian interference 01:29:20.365 --> 01:29:21.708 in Eastern Europe. 01:29:21.708 --> 01:29:25.802 We would like to do more in the Baltics and in the Balkans. 01:29:25.802 --> 01:29:28.189 If we had a little more, we'd do a little more there. 01:29:28.189 --> 01:29:30.565 But we've not walked away from those. 01:29:30.565 --> 01:29:32.575 But we do want to continue to perfect 01:29:32.575 --> 01:29:35.492 more sophisticated approaches as to 01:29:36.290 --> 01:29:39.790 how to push messages into Russian society. 01:29:39.793 --> 01:29:43.237 Obviously, through social media, through broadcast, 01:29:43.237 --> 01:29:45.366 through all of the tools available to us. 01:29:45.366 --> 01:29:47.896 And we are gonna continue to maintain 01:29:47.896 --> 01:29:50.089 that effort to ensure we are in 01:29:50.089 --> 01:29:51.938 the conversation among young people 01:29:51.938 --> 01:29:54.271 and others inside of Russia. 01:29:55.930 --> 01:29:58.229 I understand other countries are 01:29:58.229 --> 01:30:00.490 concerned about Russia, they should be. 01:30:00.490 --> 01:30:02.578 And I hear about it when I talk 01:30:02.578 --> 01:30:05.234 to them about how they feel the direct threat, 01:30:05.234 --> 01:30:07.146 whether they're in the Baltics, 01:30:07.146 --> 01:30:09.019 whether they're in the Balkans, 01:30:09.019 --> 01:30:10.758 or whether they're in Georgia, 01:30:10.758 --> 01:30:13.478 or whether they're in other parts of the world as well. 01:30:13.478 --> 01:30:15.640 So, they express that to me, but then 01:30:15.640 --> 01:30:18.205 when we talk about what should be done, 01:30:18.205 --> 01:30:21.110 they want us to solve it through engagement. 01:30:21.110 --> 01:30:22.917 They do not want it to get worse, because if it gets worse, 01:30:22.917 --> 01:30:25.917 they fear it will be worse for them. 01:30:26.235 --> 01:30:28.208 - Well, Mr. Secretary, I appreciate 01:30:28.208 --> 01:30:30.346 hearing that perspective, and we have 01:30:30.346 --> 01:30:32.086 many of the same conversations, 01:30:32.086 --> 01:30:33.627 just with a different endpoint. 01:30:33.627 --> 01:30:36.210 Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe, 01:30:36.241 --> 01:30:38.824 in the North Atlantic Alliance, 01:30:38.917 --> 01:30:41.209 I hear grave concerns that the signals 01:30:41.209 --> 01:30:43.565 we are sending are signals of retreat, 01:30:43.565 --> 01:30:45.315 and of disengagement. 01:30:46.018 --> 01:30:48.249 Partly, this is from countries, 01:30:48.249 --> 01:30:49.941 as was mentioned by the chairman, 01:30:49.941 --> 01:30:51.189 a country like Jordan that critically 01:30:51.189 --> 01:30:53.444 depends on us for support as they 01:30:53.444 --> 01:30:56.552 bear the burden in costs of a great number of refugees. 01:30:56.552 --> 01:30:58.094 In other places, it's where either 01:30:58.094 --> 01:31:00.020 China is being ascendant or aggressive 01:31:00.020 --> 01:31:02.566 in the South China Sea, or in the face of North Korea, 01:31:02.566 --> 01:31:04.398 or in Easter Europe as you mentioned. 01:31:04.398 --> 01:31:07.148 In terms of a overall budget that 01:31:07.497 --> 01:31:09.381 is trying to defend American interests 01:31:09.381 --> 01:31:11.602 and advance American values, 01:31:11.602 --> 01:31:13.748 I don't see how it makes sense 01:31:13.748 --> 01:31:16.381 in an increasingly difficult and contested world 01:31:16.381 --> 01:31:20.082 to unilaterally withdrawal support from vital allies 01:31:20.082 --> 01:31:23.180 who have chosen us and our values and our side 01:31:23.180 --> 01:31:26.939 in a contest of ideas with Russia, China, and others. 01:31:26.939 --> 01:31:28.308 Let me mention two other things 01:31:28.308 --> 01:31:30.259 before I run out of time. 01:31:30.259 --> 01:31:31.890 As has been mentioned by others, 01:31:31.890 --> 01:31:33.592 we have people to people programs 01:31:33.592 --> 01:31:35.262 like the Fulbright Scholarships 01:31:35.262 --> 01:31:37.259 that have had a big positive impact 01:31:37.259 --> 01:31:40.516 and that elevate the reputation we enjoy in the world. 01:31:40.516 --> 01:31:42.287 Africa's a very young continent, 01:31:42.287 --> 01:31:45.073 a very large continent, where China's omnipresent. 01:31:45.073 --> 01:31:47.084 The Young African Leaders Initiative 01:31:47.084 --> 01:31:49.687 is a relatively modest in scope program 01:31:49.687 --> 01:31:51.429 that has had a big impact. 01:31:51.429 --> 01:31:54.276 I thought it was, again, not the choice 01:31:54.276 --> 01:31:56.742 I would have made to cut all the 01:31:56.742 --> 01:32:00.194 educational and cultural exchange programs in half, 01:32:00.194 --> 01:32:02.060 and YALI would be one of them. 01:32:02.060 --> 01:32:03.964 I hope you will reconsider that because 01:32:03.964 --> 01:32:06.642 I think these are powerful programs 01:32:06.642 --> 01:32:08.562 that connect us to parts of the world 01:32:08.562 --> 01:32:11.262 where we benefit from a positive relationship, 01:32:11.262 --> 01:32:14.226 and as you said, that next generation of leaders. 01:32:14.226 --> 01:32:16.641 Power Africa is also something that we, 01:32:16.641 --> 01:32:19.391 on a bipartisan basis, authorized 01:32:20.064 --> 01:32:21.383 through the Electrify Africa Act. 01:32:21.383 --> 01:32:24.392 It is a way for us to bring the deployment 01:32:24.392 --> 01:32:26.493 of private sector capital and American 01:32:26.493 --> 01:32:28.821 expertise to Sub-Saharan Africa. 01:32:28.821 --> 01:32:32.654 Your budget proposal allocates an 84% cut 01:32:33.415 --> 01:32:35.894 from the FY 16 enacted level for this. 01:32:35.894 --> 01:32:38.561 There are a dozen other programs 01:32:38.871 --> 01:32:40.559 I could talk about that I think 01:32:40.559 --> 01:32:42.598 reduce the visibility, and the scope, 01:32:42.598 --> 01:32:44.231 and the reach of our investment 01:32:44.231 --> 01:32:45.693 through diplomacy and development. 01:32:45.693 --> 01:32:47.086 Those are two I just wanted to 01:32:47.086 --> 01:32:49.919 elevate in our conversation today. 01:32:50.306 --> 01:32:53.206 Let me close just by quoting an editorial 01:32:53.206 --> 01:32:55.807 that I thought made an important point. 01:32:55.807 --> 01:32:58.399 A senator said, and in this editorial, 01:32:58.399 --> 01:33:00.069 "To view foreign policy as simply 01:33:00.069 --> 01:33:01.467 "transactional is more dangerous 01:33:01.467 --> 01:33:03.119 "than it's proponents realize. 01:33:03.119 --> 01:33:05.939 "Depriving the oppressed of a beacon of hope 01:33:05.939 --> 01:33:08.855 "could lose us the world we have built and thrived in." 01:33:08.855 --> 01:33:10.501 This is, of course, by Senator McCain, 01:33:10.501 --> 01:33:11.668 it was written on May 8th. 01:33:11.668 --> 01:33:13.391 I ask for unanimous consent it be 01:33:13.391 --> 01:33:15.383 submitted for the record. 01:33:15.383 --> 01:33:17.370 I am concerned that in a world 01:33:17.370 --> 01:33:19.494 that is increasingly unstable, 01:33:19.494 --> 01:33:21.461 and where there is a clear contest 01:33:21.461 --> 01:33:24.671 between authoritarian capitalism and real capitalism, 01:33:24.671 --> 01:33:27.645 a democracy that is a capitalist society, 01:33:27.645 --> 01:33:29.654 that we need to step up our game. 01:33:29.654 --> 01:33:32.584 And I agree with increasing our defense investment, 01:33:32.584 --> 01:33:34.413 but I think to do it without also 01:33:34.413 --> 01:33:37.036 sustaining or increasing our investment 01:33:37.036 --> 01:33:40.745 in diplomacy and development is ill considered, 01:33:40.745 --> 01:33:42.572 and I really hope that we will work together 01:33:42.572 --> 01:33:45.151 to advance human rights, to advance diplomacy, 01:33:45.151 --> 01:33:47.881 and to advance development through this budget. 01:33:47.881 --> 01:33:49.565 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 01:33:49.565 --> 01:33:50.968 - [Lindsey] Thank you, Senator Daines. 01:33:50.968 --> 01:33:52.183 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 01:33:52.183 --> 01:33:53.815 Secretary Tillerson, thank you for 01:33:53.815 --> 01:33:56.013 your service to our country. 01:33:56.013 --> 01:33:58.963 Thank you for coming before this committee today. 01:33:58.963 --> 01:34:01.630 Two months ago I led a bicameral 01:34:02.799 --> 01:34:06.379 congressional delegation to China in Japan. 01:34:06.379 --> 01:34:10.546 In fact, it was just after President Xi was in Florida. 01:34:10.555 --> 01:34:13.888 I was heading over to China that Sunday. 01:34:15.743 --> 01:34:17.896 And we were underscoring our concerns 01:34:17.896 --> 01:34:20.661 about the threat posed by North Korea, 01:34:20.661 --> 01:34:23.328 noting that the US, and I quote, 01:34:24.446 --> 01:34:26.950 "Era of strategic patience is over," 01:34:26.950 --> 01:34:29.162 as was articulated by Vice President Pence 01:34:29.162 --> 01:34:31.720 who came there the week after we were there, 01:34:31.720 --> 01:34:33.887 in terms of in the region. 01:34:33.974 --> 01:34:36.037 Despite international efforts 01:34:36.037 --> 01:34:38.608 to pressure Pyongyang, he continues 01:34:38.608 --> 01:34:42.317 to conduct missile tests, nearly a dozen already this year. 01:34:42.317 --> 01:34:44.467 While some of these tests have failed, 01:34:44.467 --> 01:34:45.917 I am concerned that North Korea 01:34:45.917 --> 01:34:48.403 is learning from these failures. 01:34:48.403 --> 01:34:50.143 There's an old saying when you attend 01:34:50.143 --> 01:34:51.542 college you learn a lot more from 01:34:51.542 --> 01:34:54.930 the tests you fail versus the tests you ace. 01:34:54.930 --> 01:34:57.045 Meanwhile, South Korea has delayed 01:34:57.045 --> 01:35:01.212 implementing part of THAAD, the missile defense system. 01:35:02.016 --> 01:35:03.962 My question is how the latest developments 01:35:03.962 --> 01:35:06.452 impacted the state departments engagement 01:35:06.452 --> 01:35:09.285 with South Korea, Japan, and China 01:35:09.737 --> 01:35:13.320 to protect against North Korean aggression. 01:35:13.550 --> 01:35:15.274 - Well, as you know, the new South Korean 01:35:15.274 --> 01:35:17.523 government is being put into place. 01:35:17.523 --> 01:35:21.690 They have not named all of their cabinet positions yet. 01:35:22.215 --> 01:35:24.394 But we have been in conversations with 01:35:24.394 --> 01:35:27.344 some of their representatives who came to Washington, 01:35:27.344 --> 01:35:29.916 as well as maintaining a very close 01:35:29.916 --> 01:35:32.582 dialogue with our Japanese counterparts. 01:35:32.582 --> 01:35:35.326 So, our intention, and I know the 01:35:35.326 --> 01:35:37.099 South Koreans are committed as well 01:35:37.099 --> 01:35:39.685 to the strong trilateral partnership 01:35:39.685 --> 01:35:43.852 that we have that confronts North Korea first and foremost. 01:35:44.331 --> 01:35:47.255 And then, ultimately, at some point, 01:35:47.255 --> 01:35:49.787 at the appropriate point, engage with others. 01:35:49.787 --> 01:35:51.864 But the pressure campaign that we've had 01:35:51.864 --> 01:35:55.566 underway now for a few weeks, which involves, 01:35:55.566 --> 01:35:59.235 obviously, a requirement that China in particular 01:35:59.235 --> 01:36:03.138 participate, and participate in a meaningful way. 01:36:03.138 --> 01:36:06.187 We believe it is beginning to have some effect. 01:36:06.187 --> 01:36:09.882 It is difficult, obviously, to judge precisely 01:36:09.882 --> 01:36:13.299 because we do not have great transparency 01:36:13.912 --> 01:36:17.912 and visibility inside the regime in North Korea. 01:36:18.333 --> 01:36:21.750 This is a campaign that has a forward map 01:36:22.409 --> 01:36:24.501 as to how we continue to implement 01:36:24.501 --> 01:36:28.264 and increase that pressure on the North Koreans 01:36:28.264 --> 01:36:30.265 until we receive a clear signal 01:36:30.265 --> 01:36:32.543 that they now are ready to engage with 01:36:32.543 --> 01:36:36.043 a different mindset about the way forward. 01:36:37.431 --> 01:36:41.514 You could interpret the level of missile testing, 01:36:41.679 --> 01:36:44.762 obviously, is quite disturbing to us. 01:36:46.502 --> 01:36:48.387 Whether that's a sign they're trying 01:36:48.387 --> 01:36:50.937 to give to us that it's not working, 01:36:50.937 --> 01:36:53.227 whether it's a sign that it is working, 01:36:53.227 --> 01:36:54.977 is difficult to tell. 01:36:55.010 --> 01:36:57.859 But we are monitoring all those tests carefully, 01:36:57.859 --> 01:37:01.317 particularly in terms of what is the nature of the test. 01:37:01.317 --> 01:37:04.213 And we have good alignment between ourselves 01:37:04.213 --> 01:37:07.447 and the government of China regarding first, 01:37:07.447 --> 01:37:10.757 the objective, a denuclearization of the peninsula, 01:37:10.757 --> 01:37:14.316 but also we have a good understanding between us 01:37:14.316 --> 01:37:17.983 of what actions, if North Korea went to far, 01:37:18.387 --> 01:37:21.484 what actions would cause us to be completely aligned. 01:37:21.484 --> 01:37:23.946 So, we have further high level dialogue 01:37:23.946 --> 01:37:25.906 with the Chinese coming up this next week, 01:37:25.906 --> 01:37:28.465 Secretary Mattis and myself, 'cause we 01:37:28.465 --> 01:37:31.338 wanna work this both at the diplomatic level, 01:37:31.338 --> 01:37:33.236 but also at the Mil to Mil level. 01:37:33.236 --> 01:37:35.653 It's important that we manage the risk 01:37:35.653 --> 01:37:38.608 of this quite carefully with full and open 01:37:38.608 --> 01:37:41.851 channels of communication with the Chinese. 01:37:41.851 --> 01:37:43.719 - Secretary Tiller, listen, I want to 01:37:43.719 --> 01:37:46.552 commend you and the administration 01:37:46.803 --> 01:37:49.388 and the leadership that I've been seeing in Asia. 01:37:49.388 --> 01:37:50.862 I lived in China for six years 01:37:50.862 --> 01:37:52.674 working for Procter & Gamble. 01:37:52.674 --> 01:37:55.729 I was there when Kim un Jong's grandpa 01:37:55.729 --> 01:37:57.979 signed the deal back in 94, 01:37:58.016 --> 01:38:00.572 and we've seen what's happened since then. 01:38:00.572 --> 01:38:02.697 I was struck by, as you just mentioned, 01:38:02.697 --> 01:38:06.864 the change in the engagement approach the Chinese now have. 01:38:06.955 --> 01:38:08.893 We met with Premier Li Keqiang, 01:38:08.893 --> 01:38:10.620 as well as Chairman Xung de Jung, 01:38:10.620 --> 01:38:13.519 as they are, I think, as you stated, 01:38:13.519 --> 01:38:16.617 changing their engagement strategy with North Korea, 01:38:16.617 --> 01:38:19.433 and I wanna thank you for your leadership 01:38:19.433 --> 01:38:22.052 in that regard on this very important issue. 01:38:22.052 --> 01:38:24.291 Similarly, I had feedback from the leadership 01:38:24.291 --> 01:38:26.589 in Japan with Prime Minister Abe and his team, 01:38:26.589 --> 01:38:28.147 that our relationship with Japan 01:38:28.147 --> 01:38:31.064 has never been better in some time. 01:38:31.104 --> 01:38:35.021 And the media doesn't report this kind of news, 01:38:35.037 --> 01:38:37.504 but I saw it firsthand, and I wanna thank you 01:38:37.504 --> 01:38:39.226 for your steady hand of leadership 01:38:39.226 --> 01:38:40.930 in this important area of the world. 01:38:40.930 --> 01:38:42.958 Last week there was a press report 01:38:42.958 --> 01:38:44.640 that indicated that Russian trade 01:38:44.640 --> 01:38:47.268 with North Korea increased by more 01:38:47.268 --> 01:38:50.611 than 70% in the first two months of this year. 01:38:50.611 --> 01:38:52.010 Can you provide additional details 01:38:52.010 --> 01:38:54.290 on this development, and what impact 01:38:54.290 --> 01:38:57.873 does this have on our North Korea strategy? 01:38:58.638 --> 01:39:00.523 - Sorry, we do need Russia, 01:39:00.523 --> 01:39:02.425 its' cooperation and participation. 01:39:02.425 --> 01:39:05.092 We have spoken directly to them. 01:39:05.304 --> 01:39:07.135 I spoke directly to President Putin 01:39:07.135 --> 01:39:09.550 on the need for them to join us 01:39:09.550 --> 01:39:13.369 and China in the pressure campaign on North Korea. 01:39:13.369 --> 01:39:16.619 We do see and monitor Russian movements 01:39:17.575 --> 01:39:19.619 of fuel, petroleum products. 01:39:19.619 --> 01:39:23.369 They are opening a new ferry transport system 01:39:23.611 --> 01:39:27.778 between Vladivostok and North Korea, which is troubling. 01:39:28.557 --> 01:39:31.826 So, we're continuing the dialogue with them. 01:39:31.826 --> 01:39:33.674 I think we're making some progress 01:39:33.674 --> 01:39:36.555 if you noticed in the last UN Security 01:39:36.555 --> 01:39:39.472 Council resolution that was passed, 01:39:40.239 --> 01:39:43.207 it was passed with unanimous approval. 01:39:43.207 --> 01:39:45.297 The Russians supported that resolution 01:39:45.297 --> 01:39:49.464 which imposed more sanctions on individuals and entities. 01:39:49.612 --> 01:39:51.873 In years passed we would have never have hoped 01:39:51.873 --> 01:39:55.399 that they would vote for it, they might have abstained. 01:39:55.399 --> 01:39:57.242 So, I think the Russians too are beginning 01:39:57.242 --> 01:40:01.409 to understand the threat that North Korea poses to them. 01:40:01.780 --> 01:40:03.611 Because if there's a problem regionally, 01:40:03.611 --> 01:40:05.786 they will feel the effects of that. 01:40:05.786 --> 01:40:07.926 So, I think they are also beginning 01:40:07.926 --> 01:40:11.441 to recalculate their posture towards North Korea. 01:40:11.441 --> 01:40:14.153 - So, speaking of Russian threat, 01:40:14.153 --> 01:40:16.158 I'm gonna go to the other side of the world. 01:40:16.158 --> 01:40:17.915 A few weeks ago I visited Norway. 01:40:17.915 --> 01:40:19.833 In fact, we were at Hammerfest Norway. 01:40:19.833 --> 01:40:23.432 I was with Chairman Murkowski of the Energy Committee, 01:40:23.432 --> 01:40:27.349 as well as Secretary Zinke, and Senator Cornyn, 01:40:27.607 --> 01:40:29.806 Senator Barrasso, Senator Heitkamp. 01:40:29.806 --> 01:40:31.795 While I was there I toured on of 01:40:31.795 --> 01:40:33.959 the world's most efficient liquified 01:40:33.959 --> 01:40:35.876 natural gas facilities. 01:40:36.059 --> 01:40:39.550 They also have on site carbon capture capability. 01:40:39.550 --> 01:40:42.266 Many European countries still depend on LNG 01:40:42.266 --> 01:40:44.392 from Russia, struck by the fact 01:40:44.392 --> 01:40:46.824 there are actually 13 European countries 01:40:46.824 --> 01:40:49.907 that rely on Russia for over 75% 01:40:49.951 --> 01:40:52.284 of their annual LNG imports. 01:40:52.986 --> 01:40:54.566 So, the facility that we saw, such as 01:40:54.566 --> 01:40:57.733 one in Norway, the only one in Europe, 01:40:57.817 --> 01:41:00.608 combined with US LNG exports can be 01:41:00.608 --> 01:41:02.452 important to reduce Russia's ability 01:41:02.452 --> 01:41:06.369 to use it's energy policy to intimidate Europe. 01:41:06.692 --> 01:41:08.315 The question is what's the State Department doing, 01:41:08.315 --> 01:41:09.993 and what can we do as part of a whole 01:41:09.993 --> 01:41:12.564 of government approach to help Europe become 01:41:12.564 --> 01:41:15.491 less dependent on Russia for their energy needs? 01:41:15.491 --> 01:41:17.676 - Well, just to clarify, Europe receives 01:41:17.676 --> 01:41:20.394 70% of it's natural gas supply, 01:41:20.394 --> 01:41:23.894 but it comes by way of pipeline to Europe, 01:41:24.641 --> 01:41:27.188 because there are extensive historic pipelines 01:41:27.188 --> 01:41:28.931 that have been there for decades. 01:41:28.931 --> 01:41:31.412 And Russia is now pursuing the expansion 01:41:31.412 --> 01:41:34.829 of a second pipeline called Nord Stream 2 01:41:36.044 --> 01:41:37.835 that would connect to Germany. 01:41:37.835 --> 01:41:40.290 We have encouraged European countries 01:41:40.290 --> 01:41:44.012 and the EU to, at least, subject that pipeline 01:41:44.012 --> 01:41:47.929 to the full rigors of their regulatory process, 01:41:47.973 --> 01:41:50.473 and have suggested to them it's not 01:41:50.473 --> 01:41:52.854 in their longterm energy security interest 01:41:52.854 --> 01:41:55.813 to become more dependent on Russian natural gas, 01:41:55.813 --> 01:41:57.695 and have pointed out that the US 01:41:57.695 --> 01:42:00.110 has an abundance of natural gas 01:42:00.110 --> 01:42:03.268 and facilities now to ship LNG to Europe. 01:42:03.268 --> 01:42:05.130 So, we are promoting the notion 01:42:05.130 --> 01:42:06.729 that Europe needs to really think about 01:42:06.729 --> 01:42:10.278 it's total energy balance and it's energy security 01:42:10.278 --> 01:42:14.445 and recognize how dependent they remain on Russia. 01:42:14.519 --> 01:42:18.303 So, we are having those kinds of dialogue with them. 01:42:18.303 --> 01:42:20.146 - All right, thank you, Secretary Tillerson. 01:42:20.146 --> 01:42:21.853 - [Lindsey] Senator Merkley. 01:42:21.853 --> 01:42:23.537 - Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 01:42:23.537 --> 01:42:24.728 I know it's been a very long day. 01:42:24.728 --> 01:42:26.477 Mr. Secretary, thank you for sticking 01:42:26.477 --> 01:42:28.332 with us in both committee processes. 01:42:28.332 --> 01:42:30.372 We had a vote on the floor of the Senate 01:42:30.372 --> 01:42:32.819 earlier today on a small portion 01:42:32.819 --> 01:42:35.852 of the proposed arm sales to Saudi Arabia. 01:42:35.852 --> 01:42:38.814 It was a close vote, close in part because 01:42:38.814 --> 01:42:40.486 I think there is a worry that 01:42:40.486 --> 01:42:43.776 while there's clearly a military strategy 01:42:43.776 --> 01:42:47.693 to assist the Saudis and their bombing campaign 01:42:47.970 --> 01:42:49.744 inside Yemen, that there's not a 01:42:49.744 --> 01:42:52.578 political component to the strategy. 01:42:52.578 --> 01:42:53.875 I think you answered a question 01:42:53.875 --> 01:42:56.130 that Senator Young posed earlier today 01:42:56.130 --> 01:42:58.224 about putting pressure on the Saudis 01:42:58.224 --> 01:43:00.807 to allow humanitarian resources 01:43:01.136 --> 01:43:02.979 to flow more freely into the country, 01:43:02.979 --> 01:43:06.444 a country that is ravaged by famine and cholera today. 01:43:06.444 --> 01:43:08.398 But I wonder if you might speak 01:43:08.398 --> 01:43:10.579 a little bit more in depth about 01:43:10.579 --> 01:43:12.427 the lack of a political process. 01:43:12.427 --> 01:43:14.571 Secretary Kerry was very deeply 01:43:14.571 --> 01:43:17.654 personally engaged in trying to bring 01:43:17.806 --> 01:43:20.723 the Iranian backed Houthis together 01:43:20.949 --> 01:43:23.025 with the Saudi backed regime. 01:43:23.025 --> 01:43:24.836 He was unsuccessful, but he got very close. 01:43:24.836 --> 01:43:27.265 And the sense is that this administration 01:43:27.265 --> 01:43:29.470 and your Department of State is not 01:43:29.470 --> 01:43:31.259 engaged in that political process, 01:43:31.259 --> 01:43:33.139 is not actively trying to get 01:43:33.139 --> 01:43:34.835 the two sides to sit at the table. 01:43:34.835 --> 01:43:38.003 And part of our worry is that the strategy now 01:43:38.003 --> 01:43:40.539 is to escalate the military conflict 01:43:40.539 --> 01:43:43.717 as a means of trying to bring the Houthis 01:43:43.717 --> 01:43:47.884 to the table under circumstances in which they are weaker, 01:43:47.933 --> 01:43:50.582 which might exacerbate the military conflict. 01:43:50.582 --> 01:43:54.165 So, just explain to me, or I'd love for you 01:43:54.484 --> 01:43:56.603 to talk to the committee about 01:43:56.603 --> 01:43:58.483 your views on how the US reengages 01:43:58.483 --> 01:44:01.400 the political process inside Yemen. 01:44:01.802 --> 01:44:05.441 - Well, thanks, Senator, and you are right on the issue. 01:44:05.441 --> 01:44:08.924 Let me dispel the notion that we're not engaged. 01:44:08.924 --> 01:44:11.472 I lived in Yemen for two and a half years, 01:44:11.472 --> 01:44:13.778 and so I know a number of the people pretty well. 01:44:13.778 --> 01:44:17.695 We are engaged with, really, it's the Emirates, 01:44:17.985 --> 01:44:20.485 the Saudis, and ourselves with 01:44:21.483 --> 01:44:25.233 the Omanis participating as well, and the UN. 01:44:26.354 --> 01:44:29.271 We've had two or three meetings now 01:44:29.947 --> 01:44:32.430 to talk about the way forward, 01:44:32.430 --> 01:44:36.481 including discussions with the UN representative in this. 01:44:36.481 --> 01:44:39.766 We are pursuing the political solution, but 01:44:39.766 --> 01:44:43.366 this involves more than just the Saudis and the Houthis. 01:44:43.366 --> 01:44:45.044 It's a little more complicated than that. 01:44:45.044 --> 01:44:47.587 And I think that's why past efforts may have failed. 01:44:47.587 --> 01:44:49.461 There was not a recognition of all of 01:44:49.461 --> 01:44:53.084 the equities that were involved inside of Yemen. 01:44:53.084 --> 01:44:54.872 I wanna be careful about going to far 01:44:54.872 --> 01:44:59.039 because some of this is at a very sensitive stage, 01:44:59.793 --> 01:45:02.165 and we're not talking about it publicly yet, 01:45:02.165 --> 01:45:05.707 but we are working diligently with those parties 01:45:05.707 --> 01:45:07.954 to put together a way forward to begin 01:45:07.954 --> 01:45:10.367 to advance a political solution. 01:45:10.367 --> 01:45:12.927 The focus on the Port of Hudaydah 01:45:12.927 --> 01:45:16.311 is critical because it is the port of entry 01:45:16.311 --> 01:45:18.121 where we could begin to deliver massive 01:45:18.121 --> 01:45:19.542 amounts of humanitarian assistance. 01:45:19.542 --> 01:45:22.709 It is controlled today by the Houthis. 01:45:22.888 --> 01:45:25.646 The aid that has been sent in through that port, 01:45:25.646 --> 01:45:28.479 we know most of it has not made it 01:45:28.509 --> 01:45:30.724 to the people it was supposed to make it to. 01:45:30.724 --> 01:45:33.525 We've been working with the UN Secretary General. 01:45:33.525 --> 01:45:36.561 We're working with both the Emirates and the Saudis 01:45:36.561 --> 01:45:39.478 to gain agreement over how we might 01:45:39.990 --> 01:45:41.940 gain control of that port. 01:45:41.940 --> 01:45:44.743 We believe we can gain control of the port 01:45:44.743 --> 01:45:48.326 under some other third authority's control. 01:45:50.404 --> 01:45:52.661 And then the next step is we've got to 01:45:52.661 --> 01:45:55.903 put in place a safe passage for the aid 01:45:55.903 --> 01:45:57.441 to make it all the way to Sana'a 01:45:57.441 --> 01:45:58.491 and other parts of the country 01:45:58.491 --> 01:45:59.967 where the suffering's the greatest. 01:45:59.967 --> 01:46:02.249 And it's that safe passage piece 01:46:02.249 --> 01:46:04.123 that we're working on right now. 01:46:04.123 --> 01:46:07.188 If we can stabilize the humanitarian situation, 01:46:07.188 --> 01:46:10.105 then if we can disrupt the elements 01:46:12.088 --> 01:46:14.633 of the conflict itself, then we think 01:46:14.633 --> 01:46:18.300 with some other steps that are under way but 01:46:18.430 --> 01:46:21.224 we're not yet taken, we think we can create 01:46:21.224 --> 01:46:24.891 conditions for a political process to begin. 01:46:25.191 --> 01:46:26.488 - So, just to clarify, are you talking about, 01:46:26.488 --> 01:46:28.988 when you say retake that port, 01:46:29.127 --> 01:46:30.524 you're talking about a military campaign, 01:46:30.524 --> 01:46:33.012 supporting a military campaign to retake the port? 01:46:33.012 --> 01:46:34.734 - No, the Houthis would voluntarily 01:46:34.734 --> 01:46:37.304 turn that port over to a third authority. 01:46:37.304 --> 01:46:39.186 Not the Saudis, not the Emirates, 01:46:39.186 --> 01:46:41.686 and that we would gain access. 01:46:42.348 --> 01:46:44.262 Then the next step is how do we 01:46:44.262 --> 01:46:47.064 create the safe passage to connect 01:46:47.064 --> 01:46:49.301 the aid to the people that need it. 01:46:49.301 --> 01:46:51.930 - How do you gain a political reconciliation 01:46:51.930 --> 01:46:54.963 there if you're not talking to the Iranians? 01:46:54.963 --> 01:46:57.962 - The Iranians are part of the problem. 01:46:57.962 --> 01:47:02.129 And again, I wanna be a little cautious about how far I go, 01:47:02.135 --> 01:47:04.885 given the sensitive nature of how 01:47:05.192 --> 01:47:08.692 we're trying to put this together quietly. 01:47:09.364 --> 01:47:12.197 I would just say that they are not 01:47:12.227 --> 01:47:13.993 directly at the table because we do not 01:47:13.993 --> 01:47:17.032 believe they have earned a seat at that table. 01:47:17.032 --> 01:47:20.615 We would like for the Iranians to end their 01:47:21.202 --> 01:47:23.776 flow of weapons to the Houthis, in particular, 01:47:23.776 --> 01:47:26.683 flow of sophisticated missiles to the Houthis. 01:47:26.683 --> 01:47:30.016 We need for them to stop supplying that. 01:47:30.393 --> 01:47:32.081 And we're working with others as to 01:47:32.081 --> 01:47:35.241 how we could get their agreement to do that. 01:47:35.241 --> 01:47:38.324 This is an extraordinarily difficult, 01:47:39.467 --> 01:47:41.662 it's more complicated than the two or three 01:47:41.662 --> 01:47:44.236 countries people think are involved, 01:47:44.236 --> 01:47:46.384 and it is a very difficult country 01:47:46.384 --> 01:47:49.968 in which to reach even a political settlement, 01:47:49.968 --> 01:47:52.527 having been through two civil wars now. 01:47:52.527 --> 01:47:55.168 So, we want to take this in a matter 01:47:55.168 --> 01:47:59.179 that will be durable if we can take it to that place. 01:47:59.179 --> 01:48:01.839 - I guess, part of the struggle is figuring out 01:48:01.839 --> 01:48:04.613 who earns a seat at the table and who doesn't. 01:48:04.613 --> 01:48:07.314 So, the Russians have earned a seat at the table 01:48:07.314 --> 01:48:09.226 with respect to the future of Syria, 01:48:09.226 --> 01:48:11.868 despite the slaughter that they have 01:48:11.868 --> 01:48:14.618 allowed to happen, but the Iranians don't 01:48:14.618 --> 01:48:17.579 earn a seat at the table inside Yemen. 01:48:17.579 --> 01:48:19.444 It seems as if you have to talk to 01:48:19.444 --> 01:48:21.267 people that we disagree with, the people 01:48:21.267 --> 01:48:22.794 that are often our adversaries 01:48:22.794 --> 01:48:25.928 if you wanna make peace in places like that. 01:48:25.928 --> 01:48:28.791 How do we distinguish in that way as to why 01:48:28.791 --> 01:48:30.884 the Iranians don't get a seat at the table 01:48:30.884 --> 01:48:33.301 but we give the Russians a seat at the table? 01:48:33.301 --> 01:48:35.006 - It's the role they're willing to play 01:48:35.006 --> 01:48:36.698 from this point forward in working with us 01:48:36.698 --> 01:48:40.698 to stabilize, create conditions for cease fires, 01:48:41.218 --> 01:48:43.954 and create conditions for political discussions. 01:48:43.954 --> 01:48:47.454 In the case of Syria, we have a discussion 01:48:48.550 --> 01:48:50.908 and we have a process underway with the Russians 01:48:50.908 --> 01:48:53.908 to achieve some stability and create 01:48:53.927 --> 01:48:55.875 conditions for the political process 01:48:55.875 --> 01:48:58.359 to unfold in Geneva where, quite frankly, 01:48:58.359 --> 01:48:59.990 neither Russia nor we have a seat 01:48:59.990 --> 01:49:01.698 at the table under the Geneva process, 01:49:01.698 --> 01:49:04.448 but we can be there to influence. 01:49:05.105 --> 01:49:07.679 In the case of Yemen, we do not have 01:49:07.679 --> 01:49:10.029 any construct today that suggests 01:49:10.029 --> 01:49:12.838 the Iranians have any interest whatsoever 01:49:12.838 --> 01:49:15.921 I deescalating the conflict in Yemen. 01:49:16.519 --> 01:49:20.020 - You know, I hope you'll talk to the folks, 01:49:20.020 --> 01:49:21.879 I'm sure you have, who were subject to 01:49:21.879 --> 01:49:24.129 the negotiations last year. 01:49:24.175 --> 01:49:26.013 They were very close to an agreement. 01:49:26.013 --> 01:49:28.581 I don't think you can ever categorize the Iranians 01:49:28.581 --> 01:49:31.931 as being constructive, but we were not far away. 01:49:31.931 --> 01:49:35.537 I think it's worth while to engage in direct negotiation. 01:49:35.537 --> 01:49:37.627 I don't think there's any way around it if you, 01:49:37.627 --> 01:49:40.819 ultimately, wanna bring political resolution to that place. 01:49:40.819 --> 01:49:42.086 - [Rex] I understand, people had 01:49:42.086 --> 01:49:44.919 their own assessments at the time. 01:49:45.162 --> 01:49:46.400 - Thank you, Senator Murphy. 01:49:46.400 --> 01:49:47.817 Well, we made it. 01:49:48.564 --> 01:49:50.878 I think you acquitted yourself very well, Mr. Secretary. 01:49:50.878 --> 01:49:52.929 I appreciate you coming to the committee. 01:49:52.929 --> 01:49:55.596 We have some requests pending to 01:49:57.134 --> 01:49:58.755 the State Department, if you could get us 01:49:58.755 --> 01:50:01.558 an answer reasonably soon, we'd appreciate it. 01:50:01.558 --> 01:50:04.519 We have six outside witnesses testimony 01:50:04.519 --> 01:50:06.046 we'd like to make part of the record. 01:50:06.046 --> 01:50:10.046 A letter from the GAO, three letters from family 01:50:11.474 --> 01:50:13.974 that lost a loved one in Mali, 01:50:14.633 --> 01:50:16.588 Admiral Mullen's op-ed piece, 01:50:16.588 --> 01:50:20.493 and Sri Lankan ambassador about the cuts to his budget. 01:50:20.493 --> 01:50:23.574 Just wrap it up, you've been very generous with your time. 01:50:23.574 --> 01:50:26.839 I'm excited about your review of the State Department, 01:50:26.839 --> 01:50:29.240 your listening and taking action to 01:50:29.240 --> 01:50:31.091 make it a more efficient place. 01:50:31.091 --> 01:50:32.368 You're right, just throwing money 01:50:32.368 --> 01:50:33.909 at a problem's never gonna solve it. 01:50:33.909 --> 01:50:36.143 I think your business background is unique here, 01:50:36.143 --> 01:50:37.625 but also, your engagement of the world. 01:50:37.625 --> 01:50:38.711 You know a lot of these countries 01:50:38.711 --> 01:50:40.593 'cause you lived there, and you've done business. 01:50:40.593 --> 01:50:42.561 So, I think you're gonna be a good representative 01:50:42.561 --> 01:50:44.334 for us, and I'm excited about that. 01:50:44.334 --> 01:50:48.501 This budget, I think, is just driven by an arbitrary number. 01:50:48.823 --> 01:50:51.190 It comes out of OMB, but it basically 01:50:51.190 --> 01:50:53.336 is a result of increasing military spending, 01:50:53.336 --> 01:50:55.218 and can't deal with entitlements, 01:50:55.218 --> 01:50:56.890 so you gotta do what you gotta do. 01:50:56.890 --> 01:50:59.890 It's more of a shoot and aim budget. 01:51:00.038 --> 01:51:01.879 I'm looking forward to your review, 01:51:01.879 --> 01:51:03.741 then we can make more sense of it, 01:51:03.741 --> 01:51:07.280 rather than just shooting and aiming later. 01:51:07.280 --> 01:51:09.788 Threat base is where to go, you're dead right. 01:51:09.788 --> 01:51:11.816 It's just not about the money we spend, 01:51:11.816 --> 01:51:15.234 but a threat based budget in reform is absolutely essential. 01:51:15.234 --> 01:51:17.461 On the defense side we've reformed 01:51:17.461 --> 01:51:20.007 retirement, and that was tough. 01:51:20.007 --> 01:51:21.990 It's prospective, but it's gonna save money, 01:51:21.990 --> 01:51:23.567 it's gonna be fair to the soldiers 01:51:23.567 --> 01:51:25.889 and military members, but it's a real reform. 01:51:25.889 --> 01:51:27.541 We're going to cost plus contracts 01:51:27.541 --> 01:51:29.766 have been replaced by fixed price contracts. 01:51:29.766 --> 01:51:32.140 That's been a hell of a fight, but it's gonna save money. 01:51:32.140 --> 01:51:33.941 We're taking people out of the headquarters 01:51:33.941 --> 01:51:35.478 units and putting them out in the field 01:51:35.478 --> 01:51:37.025 'cause we got too top heavy. 01:51:37.025 --> 01:51:40.692 We've done all that and still gonna increase 01:51:41.557 --> 01:51:43.894 the defense budget by 10% because 01:51:43.894 --> 01:51:46.123 after you do all those reforms, 01:51:46.123 --> 01:51:48.473 the world is so dangerous, and the military's 01:51:48.473 --> 01:51:51.140 been hurt for the last few years 01:51:51.396 --> 01:51:54.946 through sequestration, that even after all those reforms, 01:51:54.946 --> 01:51:58.248 you just need more soldiers out there in the fight. 01:51:58.248 --> 01:52:00.959 They need better equipment, they need more modern equipment, 01:52:00.959 --> 01:52:02.771 they need to deter war, and they need 01:52:02.771 --> 01:52:04.809 to win the wars that we're in. 01:52:04.809 --> 01:52:07.539 Soft power, as I understand the need for 01:52:07.539 --> 01:52:10.956 increased hard power, I do not understand 01:52:11.252 --> 01:52:14.167 how you can cut soft power by 29%. 01:52:14.167 --> 01:52:16.208 I'm looking forward to reform the State Department, 01:52:16.208 --> 01:52:18.696 but I just don't believe that a 29% reduction 01:52:18.696 --> 01:52:22.863 is ever gonna make sense given the threats we face. 01:52:23.615 --> 01:52:26.504 I think this budget will cost influence, 01:52:26.504 --> 01:52:29.573 we're gonna love influence, it's gonna put lives at risk, 01:52:29.573 --> 01:52:31.314 and it will be seen as retreat. 01:52:31.314 --> 01:52:33.123 So, that's why I can't support it. 01:52:33.123 --> 01:52:35.114 But I will support you and your efforts 01:52:35.114 --> 01:52:38.004 to bring about a new modern State Department, 01:52:38.004 --> 01:52:41.109 listen to how we can do better with our allies. 01:52:41.109 --> 01:52:44.426 I don't mind asking people for more money, I really don't. 01:52:44.426 --> 01:52:46.328 Count me in and fill in those gaps. 01:52:46.328 --> 01:52:48.995 But given our role in the world, 01:52:49.018 --> 01:52:51.037 I think the cuts that we're talking about here, 01:52:51.037 --> 01:52:54.908 we're sacrificing influence at a time we need more. 01:52:54.908 --> 01:52:56.915 We're turning back on programs 01:52:56.915 --> 01:52:58.633 that have worked pretty well at a time 01:52:58.633 --> 01:53:00.965 when a little more would get us over the finish line. 01:53:00.965 --> 01:53:04.315 And I don't wanna retreat from the world right now. 01:53:04.315 --> 01:53:06.479 The last eight years before you got in town 01:53:06.479 --> 01:53:09.479 was pretty tough, nobody trusted us. 01:53:10.421 --> 01:53:13.607 Everybody thought we were taking a back seat and good luck. 01:53:13.607 --> 01:53:15.477 Leaning from behind did not work. 01:53:15.477 --> 01:53:17.233 I wanna compliment you and the President 01:53:17.233 --> 01:53:20.870 for getting out and about, increasing military spending, 01:53:20.870 --> 01:53:23.036 you got a hands on approach to almost 01:53:23.036 --> 01:53:26.154 every conflict in the world, left out Yemen. 01:53:26.154 --> 01:53:29.471 Any Secretary of State having to deal with 01:53:29.471 --> 01:53:33.542 three or four of these problems would have a load. 01:53:33.542 --> 01:53:36.413 Here's my goal as to lighten your load, 01:53:36.413 --> 01:53:38.598 is try to find out a way to save money 01:53:38.598 --> 01:53:41.903 but also achieve the purpose of soft power, 01:53:41.903 --> 01:53:43.878 which is protect America. 01:53:43.878 --> 01:53:45.840 And I look forward to working with you. 01:53:45.840 --> 01:53:47.456 You will find no better friend 01:53:47.456 --> 01:53:50.559 than this committee to reform the State Department. 01:53:50.559 --> 01:53:52.400 But we cannot sit on the sidelines 01:53:52.400 --> 01:53:53.876 and watch the State Department 01:53:53.876 --> 01:53:55.300 be seen as retreating at a time when 01:53:55.300 --> 01:53:58.133 we need more soft power, not less. 01:53:58.267 --> 01:53:59.407 God bless you. 01:53:59.407 --> 01:54:01.626 The subcommittee stands in recess 01:54:01.626 --> 01:54:03.959 until the call of the Chair.