WEBVTT 00:00.606 --> 00:01.977 - This morning to receive testimony 00:01.977 --> 00:05.812 on the posture of the US Central Command in Africa Command. 00:05.812 --> 00:06.846 We're pleased to welcome our witnesses, 00:06.846 --> 00:09.429 Gen. Votel and Gen. Waldhauser. 00:10.458 --> 00:13.399 We thank each of you for decades of distinguished service 00:13.399 --> 00:16.579 and for your leadership of our men and women in uniform. 00:16.579 --> 00:18.089 More than a decade-and-a-half 00:18.089 --> 00:20.187 since the September 11th terrorist attacks, 00:20.187 --> 00:22.266 our nation is still at war with terrorists 00:22.266 --> 00:24.999 that seek to attack our homeland, our interests, 00:24.999 --> 00:26.647 our allies, and our partners. 00:26.647 --> 00:29.555 In this fight, our military service members are doing 00:29.555 --> 00:31.992 everything we ask of them from North Africa 00:31.992 --> 00:34.428 to the Middle East to South Asia. 00:34.428 --> 00:36.644 Thanks to their tremendous talent and dedication, 00:36.644 --> 00:38.436 we have made important tactical 00:38.436 --> 00:40.381 and operational progress. 00:40.381 --> 00:43.273 Our military has gradually eroded ISIS's 00:43.273 --> 00:45.053 territorial control and removed key 00:45.053 --> 00:47.228 personnel from the battlefield. 00:47.228 --> 00:51.255 ISIS has been expelled from its Libyan stronghold in Sirte, 00:51.255 --> 00:53.253 and I am confident that soon 00:53.253 --> 00:55.571 the same will be true in Mosul and Raqqa. 00:55.571 --> 00:57.222 Our military has kept up the pressure 00:57.222 --> 01:01.156 on terrorists operating in countries like Yemen and Somalia. 01:01.156 --> 01:03.584 And in Afghanistan, we've kept al-Qaeda on the run 01:03.584 --> 01:05.707 and helped our Afghan partners hold the line 01:05.707 --> 01:08.457 against renewed Taliban assaults. 01:08.518 --> 01:11.124 But much to the frustration of the American people, 01:11.124 --> 01:12.866 this hard-won tactical progress 01:12.866 --> 01:15.669 has not led to enduring strategic gains. 01:15.669 --> 01:17.919 In fact, the sad reality is 01:18.995 --> 01:21.136 that America's strategic position in the Middle East 01:21.136 --> 01:24.115 is weaker today than it was eight years ago. 01:24.115 --> 01:26.877 And the positions of Vladimir Putin's Russia 01:26.877 --> 01:29.391 and the Iranian regime and its terrorist proxies 01:29.391 --> 01:30.558 have improved. 01:30.744 --> 01:33.092 This is not a military failure. 01:33.092 --> 01:35.648 Instead, it is a failure of strategy, 01:35.648 --> 01:38.557 a failure of policy, and most of all, 01:38.557 --> 01:40.489 a failure of leadership. 01:40.489 --> 01:43.584 The fact is that for at least the last eight years, 01:43.584 --> 01:45.267 we have tried to isolate the fight 01:45.267 --> 01:49.210 against terrorism from its geopolitical context. 01:49.210 --> 01:51.771 Or as General Mattis put it two years ago, 01:51.771 --> 01:55.938 we've been living in a "strategy-free environment" 01:56.239 --> 01:57.906 for quite some time. 01:58.281 --> 02:00.238 The result is that we have failed to address, 02:00.238 --> 02:03.112 and at times exacerbated, the underlying conflict, 02:03.112 --> 02:06.168 the struggles for power and sectarian identity 02:06.168 --> 02:08.660 now raging across the Middle East. 02:08.660 --> 02:11.500 We have been unable or unwilling to either ask or answer 02:11.500 --> 02:15.249 basic questions about American policy in the region. 02:15.249 --> 02:16.777 We have been reluctant to act, 02:16.777 --> 02:18.375 and when compelled to do so, 02:18.375 --> 02:21.459 we have pursued only the most limited and 02:21.459 --> 02:23.126 incremental actions. 02:23.568 --> 02:25.961 We are fighting ISIS in Syria, 02:25.961 --> 02:30.128 but ignoring the Syrian civil war that was its genesis 02:30.686 --> 02:32.764 and fuels it to this day. 02:32.764 --> 02:35.824 We are fighting ISIS in Iraq, but failing to address the 02:35.824 --> 02:37.991 growing influence of Iran. 02:38.247 --> 02:40.675 We are fighting Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, 02:40.675 --> 02:43.948 but pretending the Taliban is no longer our problem. 02:43.948 --> 02:47.501 We are fighting Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula in Yemen, 02:47.501 --> 02:50.479 but refraining from confronting the threat posed by 02:50.479 --> 02:52.229 Iran's Houthi proxies. 02:52.229 --> 02:55.233 In short, we are treating the symptoms, 02:55.233 --> 02:56.573 and ignoring the disease. 02:56.573 --> 02:59.305 And we should not be surprised at the results, 02:59.305 --> 03:01.055 a Middle East aflame, 03:01.216 --> 03:03.027 America's influence squandered, 03:03.027 --> 03:05.450 America's adversaries emboldened, 03:05.450 --> 03:07.087 America's friends disheartened, 03:07.087 --> 03:11.254 and America's policy options narrowed and worsened. 03:11.273 --> 03:14.012 This is the unfortunate inheritance 03:14.012 --> 03:16.179 of the new administration. 03:16.678 --> 03:19.406 Yet as difficult and complex as our challenges are 03:19.406 --> 03:22.334 in the Middle East, we have an opportunity to chart a 03:22.334 --> 03:24.121 new and different course. 03:24.121 --> 03:27.250 Seizing this opportunity will require more than just a plan 03:27.250 --> 03:29.894 for the accelerated defeat of ISIS. 03:29.894 --> 03:31.331 We have to raise our sights, 03:31.331 --> 03:34.332 look beyond the tactical and operational fight, 03:34.332 --> 03:35.978 and start answering some basic, 03:35.978 --> 03:38.305 but difficult strategic questions. 03:38.305 --> 03:41.588 What enduring objectives do we hope to achieve 03:41.588 --> 03:43.237 across the Middle East? 03:43.237 --> 03:45.272 How will we achieve those goals, 03:45.272 --> 03:48.522 and on what timeline, and at what cost? 03:48.751 --> 03:52.251 In Iraq, Mosul will be retaken eventually, 03:52.330 --> 03:54.621 but that will only likely reignite the battle 03:54.621 --> 03:56.434 for the future of Iraq, 03:56.434 --> 03:59.575 a battle in which we have an important stake. 03:59.575 --> 04:02.658 What is America's policy and strategy 04:02.817 --> 04:05.502 to deal with the problems that lie ahead, 04:05.502 --> 04:09.669 combating the malign influence of Iran and its militias, 04:09.693 --> 04:11.342 addressing the future of the Kurds 04:11.342 --> 04:13.080 and their place in Iraq, 04:13.080 --> 04:16.247 and attenuating the disenfranchisement 04:18.017 --> 04:20.517 of Sunni Iraqis that gave rise 04:20.672 --> 04:22.922 to ISIS in the first place? 04:23.399 --> 04:24.982 Likewise, in Syria, 04:25.333 --> 04:28.382 I believe Raqqa will eventually be liberated. 04:28.382 --> 04:30.774 But the closer we come to that day, 04:30.774 --> 04:32.857 the more it becomes clear 04:32.926 --> 04:35.144 that we cannot avoid difficult questions 04:35.144 --> 04:37.061 about Syria any longer. 04:37.466 --> 04:41.045 What is America's policy and strategy concerning 04:41.045 --> 04:43.712 a political transition in Syria, 04:43.769 --> 04:46.225 the future of Assad and his regime, 04:46.225 --> 04:48.498 the fate of the Kurds in Syria, 04:48.498 --> 04:50.502 and the influence of extremist forces 04:50.502 --> 04:54.511 from Sunni terrorists to Iranian-backed militias? 04:54.511 --> 04:57.344 In short, what is America's vision 04:57.718 --> 04:59.801 of an end-state in Syria? 05:00.089 --> 05:03.256 In Libya, the ISIS stronghold in Sirte 05:03.646 --> 05:05.146 has been degraded. 05:05.306 --> 05:07.837 But what remains is a divided nation 05:07.837 --> 05:10.034 littered with independent militias, 05:10.034 --> 05:11.534 flooded with arms, 05:11.578 --> 05:13.980 and searching in vain for legitimate governance 05:13.980 --> 05:15.647 and political unity. 05:15.751 --> 05:18.834 What is America's policy and strategy 05:18.894 --> 05:21.002 for addressing these conditions, 05:21.002 --> 05:23.510 which unless confronted will make Libya 05:23.510 --> 05:27.677 fertile ground for extremism and anti-Western terrorism? 05:28.290 --> 05:31.291 In Afghanistan, we have settled for a strategy 05:31.291 --> 05:32.624 of "don't lose". 05:32.915 --> 05:34.771 And the result is that last month, 05:34.771 --> 05:38.109 General Nicholson testified before this committee 05:38.109 --> 05:40.476 that this war is now in a stalemate 05:40.476 --> 05:42.726 after 15 years of fighting. 05:43.519 --> 05:47.519 After 15 years of fighting we're in a stalemate. 05:48.380 --> 05:50.239 What is America's policy and strategy 05:50.239 --> 05:53.131 for rolling back a resurgent Taliban, 05:53.131 --> 05:55.265 for addressing the terrorist sanctions within 05:55.265 --> 05:56.595 Pakistan's borders, 05:56.595 --> 05:59.464 and pushing back against Iranian and Russian meddling? 05:59.464 --> 06:03.595 In short, what does victory look like in Afghanistan, 06:03.595 --> 06:06.465 and what is our strategy for achieving it? 06:06.465 --> 06:09.512 Across the region, Russian and Iranian influence 06:09.512 --> 06:11.937 is growing at America's expense. 06:11.937 --> 06:15.037 Russia and Iran even hosted Syrian peace talks 06:15.037 --> 06:17.954 in Moscow last year without America 06:18.681 --> 06:20.431 present at the table. 06:21.319 --> 06:24.077 Russia's cruise missiles crisscross the region 06:24.077 --> 06:28.244 while its aircraft indiscriminately target Syrian civilians. 06:28.358 --> 06:31.275 Iran's proxies wield lethal rockets 06:32.582 --> 06:35.240 and ballistic missiles with impunity, 06:35.240 --> 06:37.657 sensing that the nuclear deal 06:39.515 --> 06:41.883 shield them from American pressure. 06:41.883 --> 06:44.790 What is America's policy and strategy to counter Russian 06:44.790 --> 06:48.957 and Iranian malign influence that often manifests itself 06:49.222 --> 06:51.896 below the threshold of open conflict? 06:51.896 --> 06:54.430 How do we restore the trust of our regional allies 06:54.430 --> 06:58.597 and partners, and convince them to forgo hedging strategies 06:58.707 --> 07:02.330 that only add to uncertainty and instability? 07:02.330 --> 07:04.847 These are the major policy and strategy questions 07:04.847 --> 07:06.365 hanging in the balance. 07:06.365 --> 07:09.268 The stakes are high, not just for the stability 07:09.268 --> 07:11.301 of the Middle East and Africa, 07:11.301 --> 07:13.834 but for America's national security. 07:13.834 --> 07:15.751 It is not the job of our witnesses 07:15.751 --> 07:18.443 to provide answers to these questions. 07:18.443 --> 07:21.722 That is the job of the President, his administration, 07:21.722 --> 07:23.139 and the Congress. 07:23.353 --> 07:26.286 We owe our witnesses, and the men and women they lead, 07:26.286 --> 07:29.366 unambiguous national security priorities, 07:29.366 --> 07:31.909 clarity in our strategic thinking, 07:31.909 --> 07:34.159 and an unwavering commitment to provide them 07:34.159 --> 07:36.730 the resources required to support 07:36.730 --> 07:39.217 the necessary courses of action. 07:39.217 --> 07:42.135 Once again, I want to thank our witnesses for appearing 07:42.135 --> 07:44.606 before the committee today and look forward 07:44.606 --> 07:46.271 to hearing how their military efforts 07:46.271 --> 07:50.307 will help us achieve favorable strategic outcomes. 07:50.307 --> 07:51.390 Senator Reed. 07:51.944 --> 07:53.273 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman, 07:53.273 --> 07:55.773 and thank you to our witnesses 07:56.497 --> 07:58.303 not only for your appearance here today 07:58.303 --> 08:00.312 but for your extraordinary service to the nation 08:00.312 --> 08:01.506 over many, many years. 08:01.506 --> 08:04.185 And also pleased to relay our thanks 08:04.185 --> 08:05.775 to the men and women that you lead. 08:05.775 --> 08:09.843 And we appreciate their effort extraordinarily so. 08:09.843 --> 08:12.913 You're in a situation of very challenging times 08:12.913 --> 08:15.330 in all the ares of operation. 08:15.802 --> 08:18.911 This hearing is especially timely given unfolding events 08:18.911 --> 08:21.263 on the ground in Iraq and Syria 08:21.263 --> 08:23.670 and reported completion of a proposed strategy 08:23.670 --> 08:26.587 to accelerate efforts against ISIS. 08:26.641 --> 08:28.220 Our assistance to partners on the ground 08:28.220 --> 08:30.602 is helping them to make steady progress 08:30.602 --> 08:34.060 in reclaiming areas of Iraq and Syria once held by ISIS 08:34.060 --> 08:35.893 most notably in Mosul. 08:36.107 --> 08:37.524 However, the situation in Syria 08:37.524 --> 08:39.758 seems to get more complicated by the day 08:39.758 --> 08:43.381 as different actors on the ground pursue divergent goals. 08:43.381 --> 08:45.586 Russia's continued support for the Assad regime 08:45.586 --> 08:47.565 fuels the country's civil war, 08:47.565 --> 08:50.732 enables the abuse and killing of the Syrian population, 08:50.732 --> 08:53.574 and allows ISIS to exploit the resulting instability 08:53.574 --> 08:55.074 for its own gains. 08:55.394 --> 08:58.174 Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Dunford 08:58.174 --> 09:00.082 met with his Russian and Turkish counterparts 09:00.082 --> 09:04.249 just this week to discuss deconflicting operations in Syria, 09:04.587 --> 09:07.470 a battlespace that has become increasingly complicated 09:07.470 --> 09:11.387 as US, Turkish, Russian, Iranian, Assad Regime, 09:11.627 --> 09:14.947 and local partner forces converge in northern Syria. 09:14.947 --> 09:17.272 And, General Votel, we look forward to your update 09:17.272 --> 09:19.206 on these particular issues. 09:19.206 --> 09:20.546 According to public reports, 09:20.546 --> 09:22.246 the Defense Department has presented the White House 09:22.246 --> 09:25.878 with a draft strategy to accelerate progress against ISIS. 09:25.878 --> 09:27.376 While details of this strategy 09:27.376 --> 09:29.044 have not been publicly released, 09:29.044 --> 09:32.138 reports indicate that it retains many of the core elements 09:32.138 --> 09:35.362 of the strategy put in place under the Obama Administration. 09:35.362 --> 09:38.039 General Dunford has described the strategy as a 09:38.039 --> 09:40.122 "political-military plan" 09:40.842 --> 09:43.842 and a "whole of government approach" 09:43.892 --> 09:46.048 requiring important contributions from other 09:46.048 --> 09:48.416 non-DOD Departments and agencies 09:48.416 --> 09:50.952 most notably the State Department. 09:50.952 --> 09:53.193 This is why it is so concerning to me 09:53.193 --> 09:54.605 that the Trump Administration's budget 09:54.605 --> 09:56.552 would apparently cut the State Department 09:56.552 --> 09:59.344 by a reported 37 percent at the very time 09:59.344 --> 10:01.197 that we need a surge of diplomatic 10:01.197 --> 10:02.887 and other assistance efforts 10:02.887 --> 10:05.279 to achieve the political conditions necessary 10:05.279 --> 10:08.344 to ultimately prevail in our fight against ISIS. 10:08.344 --> 10:11.016 As then General, and now Secretary of Defense Mattis, 10:11.016 --> 10:12.172 warned this committee 10:12.172 --> 10:14.332 "if you don't fund the State Department fully, 10:14.332 --> 10:16.375 "then I need to buy more ammunition." 10:16.375 --> 10:17.865 We can't just keep buying bullets 10:17.865 --> 10:20.408 as the Trump Administration is proposing. 10:20.408 --> 10:23.551 General Waldhauser, the importance of a robust interagency 10:23.551 --> 10:25.289 is perhaps of even greater importance 10:25.289 --> 10:27.592 in your area of responsibility, 10:27.592 --> 10:29.546 where you are primarily working by, with, 10:29.546 --> 10:31.862 and through partner military forces 10:31.862 --> 10:34.597 in conjunction with US interagency efforts. 10:34.597 --> 10:36.263 General, as you share your assessment 10:36.263 --> 10:38.300 of current and future AFRICOM efforts in places 10:38.300 --> 10:39.800 like Libya and Somalia, 10:39.800 --> 10:42.223 I look forward to hearing the ways you are incorporating 10:42.223 --> 10:44.810 a "whole of government approach" into your planning. 10:44.810 --> 10:46.970 Such incorporation is particularly important 10:46.970 --> 10:48.160 in places like these, 10:48.160 --> 10:50.902 where conflict resolution will ultimately rely less 10:50.902 --> 10:53.472 on the military toolkit and more on generating 10:53.472 --> 10:55.689 the proper political conditions 10:55.689 --> 10:58.503 to sustain and build upon security gains. 10:58.503 --> 11:00.901 Turning back to the CENTCOM AOR, 11:00.901 --> 11:03.131 over the last few years there has been a persistent focus 11:03.131 --> 11:06.102 on Iran's nuclear program and appropriately so. 11:06.102 --> 11:08.579 We passed the one-year anniversary of the implementation 11:08.579 --> 11:11.847 of the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action or JCPOA 11:11.847 --> 11:14.161 in January, and Iran appears to be living up 11:14.161 --> 11:16.359 to its commitments under the agreement. 11:16.359 --> 11:19.830 However, the JCPOA only addressed one facet 11:19.830 --> 11:21.856 of the challenge posed by Iran. 11:21.856 --> 11:25.016 Its destabilizing activities in the region, 11:25.016 --> 11:26.671 ballistic missile development efforts, 11:26.671 --> 11:28.726 and unprofessional and dangerous behavior 11:28.726 --> 11:31.181 in the maritime environment continue. 11:31.181 --> 11:33.146 Sanctions related to Iran's nuclear program 11:33.146 --> 11:35.469 were successful because of the extraordinary unity 11:35.469 --> 11:37.527 within international community. 11:37.527 --> 11:39.409 We must approach the remaining challenges 11:39.409 --> 11:41.601 in a similar way if we are to be successful 11:41.601 --> 11:43.378 in changing Iran's behavior. 11:43.378 --> 11:45.624 Any new sanctions must be carefully applied 11:45.624 --> 11:47.941 in concert with our international partners 11:47.941 --> 11:50.285 so that we do not give Iran a pretext 11:50.285 --> 11:51.927 to withdraw from the JCPOA 11:51.927 --> 11:54.262 and risk reversing the progress that has been made 11:54.262 --> 11:56.699 on limiting their nuclear ambitions. 11:56.699 --> 11:58.744 Last month, as the Chairman indicated, 11:58.744 --> 11:59.918 General Mick Nicholson, 11:59.918 --> 12:03.095 Commander of Resolute Support and US Forces-Afghanistan, 12:03.095 --> 12:05.626 testified that despite significant security gains 12:05.626 --> 12:06.600 and political efforts, 12:06.600 --> 12:09.470 Afghanistan is currently facing a stalemate. 12:09.470 --> 12:11.173 Further complicating the security landscape 12:11.173 --> 12:13.325 are the range of external actors, 12:13.325 --> 12:15.981 including Iran, Russia, and Pakistan 12:15.981 --> 12:18.665 who seem intent upon interfering with the stability 12:18.665 --> 12:19.738 in Afghanistan. 12:19.738 --> 12:21.329 It was General Nicholson's assessment 12:21.329 --> 12:23.914 that increased troop levels for the NATO train, 12:23.914 --> 12:25.333 advise, and assist mission, 12:25.333 --> 12:27.710 as well as the continued growth in the size 12:27.710 --> 12:29.628 and capability of the Afghan Air Force, 12:29.628 --> 12:32.183 would be necessary to break the stalemate. 12:32.183 --> 12:33.718 General Votel, the committee would benefit 12:33.718 --> 12:35.056 from hearing your assessment 12:35.056 --> 12:36.853 of the current situation in Afghanistan 12:36.853 --> 12:39.198 and what can be done to protect the hard-won progress 12:39.198 --> 12:40.932 that has been achieved and ensure 12:40.932 --> 12:42.858 that further progress is made. 12:42.858 --> 12:45.211 Again thank you both for your continued service 12:45.211 --> 12:47.401 to the nation and I look forward to your testimony. 12:47.401 --> 12:49.627 - I welcome the witnesses and your written statements 12:49.627 --> 12:51.993 will be made part of the record. 12:51.993 --> 12:54.045 We'll begin with you, Gen. Votel, 12:54.045 --> 12:56.373 and welcome and thanks for your service 12:56.373 --> 12:59.128 that you both rendered to our nation. 12:59.128 --> 13:01.132 - Chairman McCain, Ranking Member Reed, 13:01.132 --> 13:02.564 distinguished members of the committee, 13:02.564 --> 13:04.291 good morning and thank you for the opportunity 13:04.291 --> 13:06.884 to be here today to discuss the current posture 13:06.884 --> 13:09.962 and state of readiness of the United States Central Command. 13:09.962 --> 13:11.457 I'm very pleased to appear today 13:11.457 --> 13:14.233 with my good friend and highly respected brother-in-arms 13:14.233 --> 13:15.900 Gen. Tom Waldhauser. 13:16.071 --> 13:17.763 I come before you today on behalf 13:17.763 --> 13:20.198 of the outstanding men and women of the command, 13:20.198 --> 13:22.781 military, civilians and contractors 13:22.781 --> 13:24.447 along with our coalition partners 13:24.447 --> 13:26.856 representing nearly 60 nations. 13:26.856 --> 13:28.538 Our people are the very best in the world 13:28.538 --> 13:29.681 at what they do. 13:29.681 --> 13:32.465 And I could not be more proud of them and their families. 13:32.465 --> 13:34.595 Without question they are the strength 13:34.595 --> 13:36.677 of our central command team. 13:36.677 --> 13:39.708 I've been in command of CENTCOM for about a year now. 13:39.708 --> 13:42.825 It has been an incredibly busy and productive period. 13:42.825 --> 13:45.280 Over the past 12 months we have dealt with a number 13:45.280 --> 13:48.388 of significant challenges in Iraq and Syria, 13:48.388 --> 13:50.805 Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, 13:51.267 --> 13:54.532 Egypt and the Sinai, the Bab-el-Mandeb Strait 13:54.532 --> 13:57.491 and elsewhere throughout our area of responsibility. 13:57.491 --> 13:59.539 We are making progress in many areas 13:59.539 --> 14:03.539 but as you know there is much work that remains. 14:03.717 --> 14:06.534 We are also dealing with a range of malign activities 14:06.534 --> 14:09.091 perpetrated by Iran and its proxies 14:09.091 --> 14:10.830 operating in the region. 14:10.830 --> 14:13.247 It is my view that Iran poses 14:13.333 --> 14:16.079 the greatest long-term threat to stability 14:16.079 --> 14:17.814 for this part of the world. 14:17.814 --> 14:19.693 Generally speaking the central region 14:19.693 --> 14:21.860 remains a highly complex area, 14:21.860 --> 14:25.844 widely characterized by pervasive instability and conflict, 14:25.844 --> 14:27.780 the fragile security environments 14:27.780 --> 14:30.583 which reflect a variety of contributing factors 14:30.583 --> 14:33.755 including heightened ethno-sectarian tensions, 14:33.755 --> 14:37.498 economic uncertainty, weak or corrupt governance, 14:37.498 --> 14:40.331 civil wars and humanitarian crises 14:40.440 --> 14:42.970 are exploited by violent extremist organizations 14:42.970 --> 14:46.509 and terrorist groups such as Al-Qaeda and ISIS. 14:46.509 --> 14:48.132 These groups have clearly indicated 14:48.132 --> 14:51.354 their desire and intent to attack the US homeland, 14:51.354 --> 14:53.413 our interest abroad in the interest 14:53.413 --> 14:55.206 of our partners and allies. 14:55.206 --> 14:57.449 At the same time the central region 14:57.449 --> 15:00.172 is increasingly crowded with external nation states 15:00.172 --> 15:02.177 such as Russia and China. 15:02.177 --> 15:04.025 And they are pursuing their own interest 15:04.025 --> 15:06.789 and attempting to shift alliances. 15:06.789 --> 15:09.263 The point that I would emphasize to you is this. 15:09.263 --> 15:10.649 That while there may be other more 15:10.649 --> 15:12.615 strategic or consequential threats 15:12.615 --> 15:14.372 or regions in the world today, 15:14.372 --> 15:17.106 the central region has come to represent 15:17.106 --> 15:19.859 the nexus for many of the security challenges 15:19.859 --> 15:21.276 our nation faces. 15:21.318 --> 15:24.197 And most importantly the threats in this region 15:24.197 --> 15:26.063 continue to pose most direct threat 15:26.063 --> 15:28.657 to the US homeland and the global economy. 15:28.657 --> 15:30.872 Thus it must remain a priority 15:30.872 --> 15:34.336 and be resourced and supported accordingly. 15:34.336 --> 15:36.054 The team at US Central Command remains 15:36.054 --> 15:37.921 appropriately focused on doing 15:37.921 --> 15:40.149 what is necessary to protect our national interest 15:40.149 --> 15:42.259 and those of our partners. 15:42.259 --> 15:45.035 Our strategic approach is straightforward, 15:45.035 --> 15:47.368 prepare, pursue and prevail. 15:47.774 --> 15:49.560 And I'll explain what I mean by that. 15:49.560 --> 15:51.256 We prepare the environment to ensure 15:51.256 --> 15:52.727 an effective posture. 15:52.727 --> 15:55.122 We actively pursue opportunities to strengthen 15:55.122 --> 15:57.374 relationships and support our interests. 15:57.374 --> 15:59.849 And when we do put our forces into action 15:59.849 --> 16:02.398 we prevail in our assigned missions. 16:02.398 --> 16:05.216 I would also point out to you today, 16:05.216 --> 16:06.385 to the credit and professionalism 16:06.385 --> 16:08.511 of our Armed Forces and coalition partners, 16:08.511 --> 16:12.049 we are executing campaigns in the central region 16:12.049 --> 16:14.952 with significantly fewer US forces on the ground 16:14.952 --> 16:16.461 than in previous years. 16:16.461 --> 16:20.094 As you are seeing clearly demonstrated in Iraq and Syria, 16:20.094 --> 16:22.550 Afghanistan, Yemen and elsewhere throughout 16:22.550 --> 16:25.115 our responsibility, we have adopted 16:25.115 --> 16:26.771 a by with and through approach 16:26.771 --> 16:30.266 that places a heavy reliance on indigenous forces. 16:30.266 --> 16:33.148 While this approach does present some challenges 16:33.148 --> 16:35.157 and can be more time consuming 16:35.157 --> 16:37.673 it is proving effective and is likely 16:37.673 --> 16:40.071 to pay significant dividends going forward. 16:40.071 --> 16:41.921 Indigenous force partners continue 16:41.921 --> 16:44.645 to build needed capability and capacity 16:44.645 --> 16:46.183 and they are personally invested 16:46.183 --> 16:48.007 in the conduct of operations 16:48.007 --> 16:50.200 and thus inclined to do what is necessary 16:50.200 --> 16:53.416 to preserve the gains they have achieved going forward. 16:53.416 --> 16:55.241 We also have a vested interest 16:55.241 --> 16:57.564 in ensuring increased stability and security 16:57.564 --> 17:00.186 in the strategically important central region. 17:00.186 --> 17:03.049 To this end I will close by highlighting three areas 17:03.049 --> 17:05.054 where I do believe if we apply 17:05.054 --> 17:07.290 the appropriate amount of energy and effort 17:07.290 --> 17:09.929 we can and will have a lasting impact 17:09.929 --> 17:11.544 in this part of the world. 17:11.544 --> 17:14.222 First we must restore trust with our partners 17:14.222 --> 17:16.210 in the region while at the same time 17:16.210 --> 17:18.203 maintaining the strong trust of our leadership 17:18.203 --> 17:19.549 here in Washington. 17:19.549 --> 17:23.244 The fact is we cannot surge trust in times of crisis 17:23.244 --> 17:25.132 and we must do what is necessary now 17:25.132 --> 17:27.411 to assure partners of our commitment 17:27.411 --> 17:29.216 and our staying power. 17:29.216 --> 17:31.641 Second we must link our military objectives 17:31.641 --> 17:33.825 and campaigns as closely as possible 17:33.825 --> 17:35.058 to our policy objectives 17:35.058 --> 17:37.996 and our other instruments of national power. 17:37.996 --> 17:41.179 In other words we must rely in our military objectives 17:41.179 --> 17:43.617 and our soft power capability with desired 17:43.617 --> 17:46.624 national and regional strategic end states 17:46.624 --> 17:49.028 recognizing that if we don't do this 17:49.028 --> 17:51.354 we risk trading space for our adversaries 17:51.354 --> 17:54.021 to achieve their strategic aims. 17:54.414 --> 17:56.821 Finally we must make sure that we are postured 17:56.821 --> 17:58.446 for purpose in the region. 17:58.446 --> 18:01.391 We must have credible, ready and present force 18:01.391 --> 18:03.558 coupled with foreign military sales 18:03.558 --> 18:05.951 and foreign military financing programs 18:05.951 --> 18:07.572 that serve to build and shape 18:07.572 --> 18:10.466 partner nations capability in a timely 18:10.466 --> 18:12.299 and effective fashion. 18:12.359 --> 18:15.047 Ours is a challenging and important mission. 18:15.047 --> 18:17.900 Much is at stake today in the central region. 18:17.900 --> 18:19.420 We recognize this fact 18:19.420 --> 18:21.518 and I assure you that the CENTCOM team 18:21.518 --> 18:24.105 stands ready and willing to do what is necessary 18:24.105 --> 18:25.912 to protect our national interests 18:25.912 --> 18:28.154 and the interest of our allies and partners. 18:28.154 --> 18:30.000 Let me close by thanking the committee 18:30.000 --> 18:31.736 for the strong support that you continue 18:31.736 --> 18:33.803 to provide to the world class team 18:33.803 --> 18:35.772 at United States Central Command, 18:35.772 --> 18:37.910 and particularly to our forces located 18:37.910 --> 18:39.376 forward in the region. 18:39.376 --> 18:42.218 As I said at the outset the 80,000 plus 18:42.218 --> 18:45.761 soldiers, sailors, air men, marines, coast guardsmen 18:45.761 --> 18:47.633 and civilians that make up the command 18:47.633 --> 18:50.480 are truly the very best in the world at what they do. 18:50.480 --> 18:52.359 And I could not be more proud of them 18:52.359 --> 18:53.574 and their families. 18:53.574 --> 18:55.541 I know that you are proud of them as well. 18:55.541 --> 18:56.831 Thank you again and I look forward 18:56.831 --> 18:58.194 to answering your questions. 18:58.194 --> 18:59.027 - Thank you. 18:59.027 --> 19:00.360 Gen. Waldhauser? 19:01.234 --> 19:02.592 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 19:02.592 --> 19:05.184 Chairman McCain, Ranking Member Reed, 19:05.184 --> 19:07.290 and distinguished members of the committee, 19:07.290 --> 19:09.695 thank you for the opportunity to update you 19:09.695 --> 19:11.676 on the activities and efforts 19:11.676 --> 19:13.620 of United States Africa Command. 19:13.620 --> 19:16.238 I'd also like to say it's an honor for me 19:16.238 --> 19:19.271 to sit next to my battle buddy here, Gen. Votel. 19:19.271 --> 19:21.486 For the past nine months I have been honored 19:21.486 --> 19:23.360 to lead the men and women of this 19:23.360 --> 19:25.860 Geographic Combat and Command. 19:25.984 --> 19:28.987 Africa is an enduring interest for the United States, 19:28.987 --> 19:32.394 small but wise investments in the capability, 19:32.394 --> 19:34.253 legitimacy and accountability 19:34.253 --> 19:36.836 of African defense institutions 19:36.894 --> 19:40.904 offer disproportionate benefits to America, our allies, 19:40.904 --> 19:43.116 the United States, and most importantly 19:43.116 --> 19:46.866 enable African solutions to African problems. 19:47.684 --> 19:49.585 Parts of Africa remain a battleground 19:49.585 --> 19:53.002 between ideologies, interests and values, 19:53.506 --> 19:55.751 equality, prosperity and peace 19:55.751 --> 19:58.815 are often pitted against extremism, oppression, 19:58.815 --> 19:59.898 and conflict. 20:01.064 --> 20:03.985 Today trans-regional violent extremist organizations 20:03.985 --> 20:06.180 on the continent constitute the most direct 20:06.180 --> 20:09.263 security threat to the United States. 20:09.308 --> 20:11.948 To address this threat our military strategy 20:11.948 --> 20:15.378 articulates a long term regionally-focused approach 20:15.378 --> 20:17.795 for a safe and stable Africa. 20:18.774 --> 20:21.291 Specifically the strategy outlines in Africa 20:21.291 --> 20:23.219 in which regional organization 20:23.219 --> 20:26.051 and states are willing and capable partners 20:26.051 --> 20:28.431 addressing African security challenges 20:28.431 --> 20:32.009 all while promoting United States interests. 20:32.009 --> 20:33.639 The Africa Command Strategy builds 20:33.639 --> 20:35.528 our partners' abilities to direct, 20:35.528 --> 20:38.386 manage and operate capable and sustainable 20:38.386 --> 20:40.136 defense institutions. 20:40.619 --> 20:42.017 While we have achieved progress 20:42.017 --> 20:43.604 in implementing our strategy, 20:43.604 --> 20:46.604 threats and challenges still remain. 20:46.975 --> 20:50.225 In East Africa we support African Union 20:50.244 --> 20:52.007 and European Union efforts 20:52.007 --> 20:53.868 to neutralize Al-Shabaab 20:53.868 --> 20:56.223 and other violent extremist organizations 20:56.223 --> 20:57.973 operating in Somalia. 20:57.974 --> 21:01.178 And we also support the eventual transfer 21:01.178 --> 21:03.125 of security responsibilities 21:03.125 --> 21:05.627 from the African Union mission in Somalia 21:05.627 --> 21:08.877 to the Somali national security forces. 21:09.729 --> 21:12.396 In 2016 Al-Shabaab regained some 21:12.941 --> 21:15.289 previously held Somalia territory. 21:15.289 --> 21:17.508 And today the group continues to conduct 21:17.508 --> 21:19.591 attacks on Amazon forces, 21:19.710 --> 21:22.608 the national security forces of Somalia 21:22.608 --> 21:25.743 as well as the federal government of Somalia. 21:25.743 --> 21:27.194 Additionally we have also seen 21:27.194 --> 21:30.562 elements of ISIS begin to make in rows into Somalia 21:30.562 --> 21:32.677 which will further test Amazon forces 21:32.677 --> 21:36.510 and the Federal government of Somalia as well. 21:36.866 --> 21:39.094 The instability in Libya in North Africa 21:39.094 --> 21:41.380 caused by years of political in fighting 21:41.380 --> 21:43.533 may be the most significant near term threat 21:43.533 --> 21:47.482 to the US and allies interests on the continent. 21:47.482 --> 21:50.572 Stability in Libya is a long-term proposition. 21:50.572 --> 21:53.882 We must maintain pressure on the ISIS, Libya network 21:53.882 --> 21:56.183 and concurrently support Libya's efforts 21:56.183 --> 22:00.025 to reestablish legitimate and unified government. 22:00.025 --> 22:02.083 This is a significant challenge 22:02.083 --> 22:04.060 and we must carefully choose where 22:04.060 --> 22:06.435 and with whom we work and support 22:06.435 --> 22:08.601 in order to counter ISIS Libya 22:08.601 --> 22:10.511 and not to shift the balance between 22:10.511 --> 22:13.302 various factions and risk of sparking 22:13.302 --> 22:15.469 greater conflict in Libya. 22:16.496 --> 22:18.319 In West Africa our primary focus 22:18.319 --> 22:20.672 is countering and degrading Boko Haram 22:20.672 --> 22:22.422 and ISIS West Africa. 22:23.297 --> 22:26.170 Since 2011 Boko Haram has consistently 22:26.170 --> 22:28.271 carried out attacks against civilians 22:28.271 --> 22:30.571 and targeted partner regional governments 22:30.571 --> 22:34.738 and military forces in the Lake Chad Basin region. 22:35.020 --> 22:37.276 With forces from Benin, Cameroon, 22:37.276 --> 22:39.359 Chad, Niger, and Nigeria, 22:39.753 --> 22:42.924 we are working with a multi-national joint taskforce 22:42.924 --> 22:46.733 located in Niger to enable regional cooperation 22:46.733 --> 22:49.347 and expand partner capacity to ensure 22:49.347 --> 22:51.930 Boko Haram and ISIS West Africa 22:51.938 --> 22:55.188 do not further de-stabilize the region. 22:55.338 --> 22:57.089 The multi-national joint task force 22:57.089 --> 22:59.505 has been successful in enabling multi-national 22:59.505 --> 23:03.672 cooperation and coordinating multi-national operations 23:03.895 --> 23:05.912 and placed a significant pressure 23:05.912 --> 23:08.829 on Boko Haram and ISIS West Africa. 23:09.604 --> 23:11.826 In Central Africa through the combined efforts 23:11.826 --> 23:14.631 of military forces, civilian agencies, 23:14.631 --> 23:16.635 and non-governmental organizations 23:16.635 --> 23:19.485 we worked to build the capacity of our partners 23:19.485 --> 23:20.914 to address regional threats 23:20.914 --> 23:23.827 such as maritime security, illicit trafficking 23:23.827 --> 23:25.206 of goods and persons, 23:25.206 --> 23:28.028 the large resistance army and other criminal 23:28.028 --> 23:30.111 networks and enterprises. 23:30.703 --> 23:32.782 Africa-wide we support the efforts 23:32.782 --> 23:34.754 to enable African partners to respond 23:34.754 --> 23:38.087 to humanitarian crises, mass atrocities, 23:38.196 --> 23:39.923 disaster contingencies, 23:39.923 --> 23:42.590 and to support peace operations. 23:43.526 --> 23:45.609 Through the United States National Guards 23:45.609 --> 23:47.119 State Partnership program 23:47.119 --> 23:49.774 along with their African partners, 23:49.774 --> 23:52.181 we've improved disaster management competency 23:52.181 --> 23:55.473 and readiness to assist civilian-led efforts. 23:55.473 --> 23:57.146 We continue to see great value 23:57.146 --> 23:59.595 in the National Guards' persistent engagement 23:59.595 --> 24:03.762 and fully support the state partnership program's efforts. 24:04.102 --> 24:07.310 Africa's security environment is dynamic and complex 24:07.310 --> 24:09.659 requiring innovative solutions. 24:09.659 --> 24:12.719 Even with limited resources and capabilities 24:12.719 --> 24:15.358 Africa command aggressively works with partners 24:15.358 --> 24:17.643 and allies to execute our missions 24:17.643 --> 24:19.143 and mitigate risk. 24:19.712 --> 24:22.757 Moving forward we continue to focus our decisive effort 24:22.757 --> 24:25.365 on building African partner capacity 24:25.365 --> 24:26.913 and will continue to work closely 24:26.913 --> 24:29.229 with the international and interagency partners 24:29.229 --> 24:31.727 to make small wise investments 24:31.727 --> 24:34.805 which pay huge dividends in building stable 24:34.805 --> 24:36.408 and effective governments, 24:36.408 --> 24:40.133 the foundation for long term security in Africa. 24:40.133 --> 24:41.679 I'm confident with your support 24:41.679 --> 24:43.567 Africa Command will protect and promote 24:43.567 --> 24:46.558 United States interests and keep the United States safe 24:46.558 --> 24:49.832 from threats emanating from the African Continent. 24:49.832 --> 24:52.397 And finally on behalf of the United States Africa Command 24:52.397 --> 24:53.774 I wanna thank you for the opportunity 24:53.774 --> 24:55.206 to be with you this morning 24:55.206 --> 24:57.095 and I also look forward to your questions. 24:57.095 --> 24:57.928 Thank you. 24:58.358 --> 25:00.108 - Thank you, General. 25:00.441 --> 25:04.400 General Votel, you agree that we're in a stalemate 25:04.400 --> 25:06.900 in Afghanistan after 15 years? 25:07.305 --> 25:09.290 - [Votel] Mr. Chairman, I do. 25:09.290 --> 25:13.125 - And in some measurements, maybe you could argue 25:13.125 --> 25:17.292 that when we go from control of 72% of the country to 52% 25:19.999 --> 25:21.732 that's worse than a stalemate? 25:21.732 --> 25:24.867 Would you agree that one of the most disturbing things 25:24.867 --> 25:28.026 about the attack on the hospital yesterday, 25:28.026 --> 25:32.193 that attack was carried out by ISIS, not by a Taliban 25:32.787 --> 25:35.870 which shows, at least to this person, 25:37.021 --> 25:40.543 that we're seeing an increase in influence of ISIS 25:40.543 --> 25:43.543 as well as Russian providing weapons 25:46.108 --> 25:50.275 and the Iranians playing a great role than in the past. 25:51.207 --> 25:54.447 I guess my question is are we developing a strategy 25:54.447 --> 25:56.253 to break this stalemate? 25:56.253 --> 26:00.003 And is it gonna require additional US troops? 26:00.313 --> 26:03.075 - Mr. Chairman, the answer to the question is yes. 26:03.075 --> 26:06.139 We are developing a strategy and we are in discussions 26:06.139 --> 26:09.804 with the secretary in the department right now. 26:09.804 --> 26:13.971 Both General Nicholson and I are forming our vested advice 26:14.406 --> 26:16.544 and recommendations to the secretary 26:16.544 --> 26:18.782 and we look forward to moving forward 26:18.782 --> 26:22.647 that I do believe it will involve additional forces 26:22.647 --> 26:26.814 to ensure that we can make the advice and assist mission 26:27.495 --> 26:28.745 more effective. 26:29.415 --> 26:33.012 - And already you have received a capability 26:33.012 --> 26:36.927 on rules of engagement which enhance your abilities 26:36.927 --> 26:40.010 to combat the enemy, is that correct? 26:40.117 --> 26:41.534 - That's correct. 26:43.220 --> 26:46.348 - We got a very interesting and challenging situation 26:46.348 --> 26:50.515 in Syria and that is the whole issue of the Kurds, 26:51.185 --> 26:54.185 our relationship with them, Erdogan, 26:54.284 --> 26:57.778 our relationship with them, the importance of the use of, 26:57.778 --> 27:01.945 and select the importance of our relationship with Turkey. 27:03.697 --> 27:07.864 And I met with President Erdogan in Ankara recently, 27:08.611 --> 27:12.694 he is passionately opposed to Kurdish involvement 27:13.580 --> 27:17.413 and our support of the Kurds that I understand 27:19.046 --> 27:22.046 are going to be a very vital element 27:22.818 --> 27:25.818 in expediting the retaking of Raqqa. 27:28.587 --> 27:31.663 This is a complex situation and it would take all my time, 27:31.663 --> 27:34.279 as you know, to go through all this. 27:34.279 --> 27:38.240 But I think there's a possibility of an impending conflict 27:38.240 --> 27:41.490 between Turkey and the Kurds as opposed 27:42.304 --> 27:46.304 to us all working together to try to defeat ISIS 27:47.072 --> 27:48.982 and remove them from Raqqa. 27:48.982 --> 27:51.399 Do you see that as a scenario 27:51.414 --> 27:53.385 that we should be concerned about? 27:53.385 --> 27:55.997 - I do, Mr. Chairman, and to that end 27:55.997 --> 28:00.164 we are trying to actions to prevent that from occurring. 28:01.357 --> 28:05.394 - Well, we find ourselves in kind of a strange situation 28:05.394 --> 28:09.561 that we and the Russians are allied against the Turks, 28:11.165 --> 28:14.004 is that correct, as far as the Kurds are concerned, 28:14.004 --> 28:16.421 is that a correct assessment? 28:16.728 --> 28:19.723 - I wouldn't, necessarily would say that we are aligned 28:19.723 --> 28:21.223 against the Turks. 28:22.637 --> 28:24.718 We certainly understand what their interests are 28:24.718 --> 28:25.911 and we understand their concerns 28:25.911 --> 28:27.759 about the partners that we are working with. 28:27.759 --> 28:30.133 Turkey is a vital partner in this effort here. 28:30.133 --> 28:32.474 We could not do what we're doing without them. 28:32.474 --> 28:35.697 So our efforts are to try to work through this, 28:35.697 --> 28:37.562 work through this tension through dialogue, 28:37.562 --> 28:40.311 through information, and through identifying alternatives 28:40.311 --> 28:44.165 that gives us a way to move forward against ISIS 28:44.165 --> 28:47.134 without damaging the long-term relationship 28:47.134 --> 28:48.801 with a NATO partner. 28:49.849 --> 28:52.670 - Well, as you know we are working within, 28:52.670 --> 28:56.332 with the Kurds that, and arming and training them 28:56.332 --> 28:58.754 and they're a very effective fighting force, 28:58.754 --> 29:02.004 the same Kurds that Erdogan has labeled 29:02.401 --> 29:06.348 as a terrorist organization and in the view of some 29:06.348 --> 29:09.681 a greater threat to Turkey than ISIS is. 29:13.540 --> 29:16.040 Who's gonna sort all this out? 29:16.520 --> 29:19.449 - Well, I think there has to be, there certainly has to be 29:19.449 --> 29:21.742 an effort, Mr. Chairman, at the military level 29:21.742 --> 29:23.765 and there has to be an effort at the political level 29:23.765 --> 29:24.972 to address this. 29:24.972 --> 29:25.889 And so as-- 29:26.412 --> 29:28.415 - I'm not sure there's an understanding 29:28.415 --> 29:31.748 of how seriously Erdogan use this issue, 29:32.563 --> 29:35.013 and I'm not sure we appreciate the importance 29:35.013 --> 29:39.180 of the role that Turkey plays in our effort to retake Raqqa 29:40.277 --> 29:44.182 particularly in the use of (mumbles) and other activities 29:44.182 --> 29:46.932 that require Turkish cooperation. 29:47.393 --> 29:51.060 I hope that we can, unless something changes 29:51.514 --> 29:53.739 I foresee a train wreck here. 29:53.739 --> 29:56.574 And I'm not sure that the administration recognizes 29:56.574 --> 30:00.407 how seriously, particularly President Erdogan, 30:00.496 --> 30:04.257 views the threat that he views that the Kurdish, 30:04.257 --> 30:06.090 that the Kurds oppose. 30:06.213 --> 30:09.279 Frankly, finally, General Waldhauser, 30:09.279 --> 30:11.602 let's talk about Libya a second. 30:11.602 --> 30:14.350 Who's the most powerful influence in Libya today 30:14.350 --> 30:18.517 and what's, briefly, what's the answer to this chaos? 30:21.901 --> 30:23.151 - Thanks you, Senator. 30:23.151 --> 30:25.052 It's difficult to say who's the most powerful 30:25.052 --> 30:26.931 partner right now inside Libya. 30:26.931 --> 30:27.930 If you took polls, you would see 30:27.930 --> 30:29.732 that the Libyan National Army has got 30:29.732 --> 30:32.474 great support in the west, I'm sorry, in the east, 30:32.474 --> 30:35.141 and GNA has support in the west. 30:35.256 --> 30:37.010 So there needs to be accommodation 30:37.010 --> 30:39.177 of those two organizations 30:39.416 --> 30:43.249 in order to get to a political solution there. 30:44.211 --> 30:47.410 - Does it bother you that Haftar has been visiting 30:47.410 --> 30:49.945 with the Russians and went out to a Russian carrier, 30:49.945 --> 30:54.112 and obviously now the Russians maybe assuming a role 30:54.663 --> 30:56.939 in Libya that they never had before. 30:56.939 --> 30:58.611 - It is very concerning, Senator. 30:58.611 --> 31:00.963 Haftar has visited, as you said, on the carrier 31:00.963 --> 31:02.647 with the Russians, he's also visited 31:02.647 --> 31:04.076 in the country of Russia. 31:04.076 --> 31:07.126 Also this week, reported in the open press, 31:07.126 --> 31:09.035 Sarraj, from the Government of National Accord, 31:09.035 --> 31:11.035 has also visited Russia. 31:11.372 --> 31:13.838 - As this is a case with Afghanistan that I mentioned 31:13.838 --> 31:18.005 I hope we will be developing a strategy as regards to Libya 31:18.590 --> 31:22.730 as the volatility of that situation can clearly lead 31:22.730 --> 31:25.997 to the rise of ISIS and other extremist organizations 31:25.997 --> 31:29.414 as I know you are well aware of, General. 31:29.618 --> 31:30.701 Senator Reed. 31:31.080 --> 31:32.284 - Thank you very, Mr. Chairman. 31:32.284 --> 31:36.451 And, General Votel, you're now in the process of evaluating 31:38.084 --> 31:42.084 the mission and the strategy, and for many years 31:42.644 --> 31:44.590 the mission seemed to be very clear with respect 31:44.590 --> 31:48.590 to Syria and to Iraq to degrade and defeat ISIS. 31:49.790 --> 31:53.179 Now there are activities, particularly around Manbij 31:53.179 --> 31:57.346 where you are in the process of trying to separate forces. 31:57.375 --> 32:01.127 The issue here really is to not only define the mission 32:01.127 --> 32:05.129 but preventing mission creep in terms of (mumbles) ourselves 32:05.129 --> 32:06.955 committed not just to destroying ISIS 32:06.955 --> 32:10.929 but somehow refereeing a very complicated situation 32:10.929 --> 32:14.735 with Russians, Assad forces, anti-Assad forces, 32:14.735 --> 32:18.755 Turkish forces, Kurdish forces and an array of other forces 32:18.755 --> 32:22.088 that you can (mumbles). 32:22.691 --> 32:26.486 How are you going to prevent that mission creep 32:26.486 --> 32:28.903 or is there that possibility? 32:29.423 --> 32:30.637 - Thank you, Senator. 32:30.637 --> 32:32.387 And, yes, I do agree. 32:33.021 --> 32:35.243 If we're not careful we could find ourselves 32:35.243 --> 32:37.030 in a different situation 32:37.030 --> 32:39.908 The presence of our forces in Manbij 32:39.908 --> 32:42.196 is not new to just the current situation. 32:42.196 --> 32:44.409 They have actually been on the ground 32:44.409 --> 32:48.451 since Manbij was secured here six or seven months ago. 32:48.451 --> 32:52.618 And they are principally there to ensure that ISIS 32:52.854 --> 32:56.602 is not able to reestablish itself in the area 32:56.602 --> 32:59.085 and we have undertaken a number of operations 32:59.085 --> 33:01.252 in that particular regard. 33:01.270 --> 33:04.179 As the situation is currently played out, 33:04.179 --> 33:07.148 that is the principal focus of our elements there. 33:07.148 --> 33:10.036 They do have the benefit by virtue of being there 33:10.036 --> 33:12.203 to also provide overwatch 33:12.934 --> 33:15.647 and I would add a measure of assurance, 33:15.647 --> 33:18.213 not just for our local partners on the ground there 33:18.213 --> 33:21.021 but I would also suggest for our Turkish partners 33:21.021 --> 33:22.824 we understand what their concerns are 33:22.824 --> 33:25.573 about undue Kurdish influence in this particular area 33:25.573 --> 33:28.899 so the best way that we can keep an eye on that, I think, 33:28.899 --> 33:33.066 is through our well-trained (mumbles) forces on the ground. 33:35.163 --> 33:38.222 - One of the areas I touched on in my comments 33:38.222 --> 33:41.889 was the interagency and, General Waldhauser, 33:42.504 --> 33:45.128 can you accomplish your mission in AFRICOM 33:45.128 --> 33:47.795 if you don't have rather robust support 33:47.795 --> 33:50.486 by state department and other agencies 33:50.486 --> 33:52.921 including our European allies? 33:52.921 --> 33:54.949 - The short answer, Senator, is no we cannot. 33:54.949 --> 33:57.250 We work very closely with various agencies 33:57.250 --> 34:00.458 USAID, the state department and the like. 34:00.458 --> 34:02.117 I could give new more examples if you like 34:02.117 --> 34:04.661 of how we partner with them and how they contribute 34:04.661 --> 34:08.508 to development, which is so important in our mission. 34:08.508 --> 34:09.341 - Thank you. 34:09.341 --> 34:11.632 And, General Votel, likewise (mumbles)-- 34:11.632 --> 34:14.049 - [Votel] I absolutely agree. 34:15.286 --> 34:19.203 - As we go forward in terms of the new strategy 34:20.724 --> 34:22.252 that the president is asking for, 34:22.252 --> 34:26.169 one point he made was requesting recommendation 34:26.753 --> 34:29.744 to changes any US rules and engagement 34:29.744 --> 34:32.023 and other US policy restrictions that exceed 34:32.023 --> 34:35.440 the requirements of an international war. 34:36.119 --> 34:38.890 My sense is that the requirements and the authorities 34:38.890 --> 34:43.057 that the military has asked for is one they can do the job, 34:43.384 --> 34:47.551 but two they also do things like minimize the casualties, 34:47.682 --> 34:50.849 provide for inappropriate relationship 34:51.008 --> 34:54.425 with the local population which helps you 34:55.177 --> 34:56.594 rather hurts you. 34:58.407 --> 35:00.408 Is that still the sensitivity that you have? 35:00.408 --> 35:04.004 I mean, adherence in the (mumbles) international war 35:04.004 --> 35:07.286 might not be smartest military approach. 35:07.286 --> 35:09.136 - Well, we conduct all of our operations 35:09.136 --> 35:11.684 in accordance with the Law of Armed Conflict-- 35:11.684 --> 35:12.517 - [Reed] Right. 35:12.517 --> 35:16.684 - And we bring our values to the fight wherever we are. 35:16.845 --> 35:21.012 I don't think those are particular limitations on us 35:21.593 --> 35:23.544 at this particular point. 35:23.544 --> 35:27.405 My advice here moving forward has been to ensure that we, 35:27.405 --> 35:30.704 our forces have the operational agility to maintain pressure 35:30.704 --> 35:33.164 and sustain our approach of presenting 35:33.164 --> 35:36.831 ISIS's multiple dilemmas and really pursuing 35:37.199 --> 35:41.032 a military strategy of simultaneous operations 35:41.816 --> 35:43.106 to really overwhelm them quickly. 35:43.106 --> 35:45.477 And so the preponderance of our discussions 35:45.477 --> 35:48.595 and our recommendations really fell within that area. 35:48.595 --> 35:52.012 - But again, the rules that we've adopted 35:53.084 --> 35:56.334 had been based on best military policy, 35:58.200 --> 36:01.186 not just adherence to arbitrary rules. 36:01.186 --> 36:03.847 We minimize casualties because it has an effect 36:03.847 --> 36:06.251 on the population that will hurt our operation, 36:06.251 --> 36:07.084 is that correct? 36:07.084 --> 36:08.430 - Senator, that is absolutely correct. 36:08.430 --> 36:12.097 750,000 people in the west portion of Mosul, 36:12.906 --> 36:15.485 and so we have to, we certainly have to conduct 36:15.485 --> 36:17.687 our operations with the full knowledge 36:17.687 --> 36:19.854 that that's the situation. 36:21.028 --> 36:22.698 - Again, gentlemen, thank you for your service 36:22.698 --> 36:24.814 and I look forward to continuing these discussions. 36:24.814 --> 36:25.647 Thank you. 36:25.647 --> 36:26.640 - [McCain] Senator Inhofe. 36:26.640 --> 36:28.807 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 36:30.352 --> 36:32.685 General Waldhauser, we just, 36:33.114 --> 36:35.597 you and I discussed in my office, 36:35.597 --> 36:39.764 Senator (mumbles) and I just returned from several areas 36:40.549 --> 36:44.466 in your command and when you stop to look at it 36:47.307 --> 36:50.807 it seems like it's been shorter than that, 36:51.224 --> 36:53.398 but it's been 10 years since we started AFRICOM 36:53.398 --> 36:56.326 and AFRICOM they kinda used to be divided 36:56.326 --> 36:58.529 in three different commands. 36:58.529 --> 37:01.506 Now since that time I think there is, 37:01.506 --> 37:03.258 we've had a lot of successes. 37:03.258 --> 37:07.091 General Rodriguez, when your predecessor said, 37:07.711 --> 37:10.822 "Africa is an enduring interest in the United States, 37:10.822 --> 37:13.190 "and its importance will continue to increase 37:13.190 --> 37:17.357 "as African economies, population, and influence grow." 37:17.843 --> 37:19.132 Do you agree with that statement? 37:19.132 --> 37:20.291 - Senator, I do. 37:20.291 --> 37:22.291 - And it wasn't long ago 37:24.517 --> 37:27.557 when Chuck Wald had the job that you have right now. 37:27.557 --> 37:31.390 He talked about the significance of Phase Zero 37:31.441 --> 37:33.967 and he actually wrote an article 37:33.967 --> 37:36.429 about the Phase Zero Campaign, 37:36.429 --> 37:38.679 why is Phase Zero important 37:39.175 --> 37:41.104 and how does it apply to AFRICOM. 37:41.104 --> 37:42.971 Could you make any comments about that? 37:42.971 --> 37:43.938 Senator, thank you. 37:43.938 --> 37:46.293 What I would say to that question is that the ability 37:46.293 --> 37:49.743 to engage with the population and have such exercises 37:49.743 --> 37:53.838 and engagements with agencies as we previously described, 37:53.838 --> 37:56.320 things like education, health care, 37:56.320 --> 37:59.372 jobs for the significant youth that's in Africa 37:59.372 --> 38:00.615 is very, very important. 38:00.615 --> 38:02.467 We've gotta get at these drivers 38:02.467 --> 38:06.354 that make these individuals, young men especially, 38:06.354 --> 38:08.547 wanna join groups like Al-Shabab. 38:08.547 --> 38:11.100 In order to (mumbles) that part of the problem, 38:11.100 --> 38:12.709 we need to be engaged with education, 38:12.709 --> 38:14.742 health care, jobs and the like. 38:14.742 --> 38:17.811 - And to preclude something from happening 38:17.811 --> 38:21.371 (mumbles) and I would agree with that. 38:21.371 --> 38:24.788 We're also in Afghanistan, General Votel, 38:25.985 --> 38:29.318 and we met with the, our service members 38:29.967 --> 38:33.485 and, of course, the new president and General Nicholson, 38:33.485 --> 38:37.235 and I think maybe we might be, in my opinion, 38:37.522 --> 38:39.872 'cause, and I might be influenced by the fact 38:39.872 --> 38:43.013 that I knew the new president's predecessor 38:43.013 --> 38:45.180 and there's no comparison. 38:45.959 --> 38:49.709 Summing up kinda what General Nicholson said, 38:49.791 --> 38:51.041 I'll read this. 38:51.605 --> 38:55.459 "Need for a long-term coalition commitment to Afghanistan, 38:55.459 --> 38:58.071 "need for increase coalition forces for trading 38:58.071 --> 39:00.988 "and assisting the Afghan military, 39:01.011 --> 39:03.755 "the strength and the commitment of the Afghan people 39:03.755 --> 39:06.746 "who want to take their country back from the insurgence, 39:06.746 --> 39:10.829 "shifting the focus to winning versus not losing. 39:11.625 --> 39:13.949 "The high casualty rate among Afghan forces 39:13.949 --> 39:16.901 "they increase in territory, controlled by the Taliban, 39:16.901 --> 39:19.356 "the importance of cutting the Taliban's access 39:19.356 --> 39:22.023 "to financing their operations." 39:22.083 --> 39:24.316 Do you pretty much agree with his assessment 39:24.316 --> 39:26.566 with what the situation is there? 39:26.566 --> 39:27.899 - I do, Senator. 39:28.012 --> 39:30.416 - And do you think that maybe 39:30.416 --> 39:33.765 when we get some of these less than optimistic reports 39:33.765 --> 39:36.497 in these committee hearings that we have 39:36.497 --> 39:38.499 that you get a little bit different idea 39:38.499 --> 39:40.295 when you're actually there. 39:40.295 --> 39:41.908 And one of the things that I think 39:41.908 --> 39:44.325 we're not factoring in enough 39:44.518 --> 39:47.018 would be the president, Ghani. 39:48.690 --> 39:51.023 And I like to have your idea 39:51.440 --> 39:54.440 as to what difference that can make. 39:54.900 --> 39:58.614 'Cause I can remember sitting there with his predecessor 39:58.614 --> 40:00.670 and then evaluating the situation, 40:00.670 --> 40:02.312 what his commitment is right now 40:02.312 --> 40:05.288 and what he really believes his people 40:05.288 --> 40:07.288 are gonna be able to do. 40:07.845 --> 40:10.238 - Senator, I absolutely agree with you. 40:10.238 --> 40:14.405 I do think we cannot over estimate the strategic advantage 40:16.103 --> 40:19.054 of having a leader like President Ghani in place. 40:19.054 --> 40:23.085 His willingness to partner, his visionary ideas about this, 40:23.085 --> 40:26.795 and his general approach to bringing the coalition on board 40:26.795 --> 40:29.835 I think have been very good and I think they provide us 40:29.835 --> 40:32.442 a very good opportunity to build upon. 40:32.442 --> 40:34.678 - And with him and with your experience 40:34.678 --> 40:37.025 from the last fighting season that we had 40:37.025 --> 40:39.278 since we're coming up now to the next fighting season, 40:39.278 --> 40:43.178 do you have any projection as to differences we might see 40:43.178 --> 40:47.345 with that leadership and where we are right now in-- 40:47.512 --> 40:50.084 - I think that we will continue to see 40:50.084 --> 40:53.667 very steady leadership from President Ghani 40:54.228 --> 40:57.050 and then his government through the next fighting season. 40:57.050 --> 41:00.182 I think the challenge that we will have will be sustaining 41:00.182 --> 41:01.994 the Afghan forces as they move forward. 41:01.994 --> 41:04.464 They, as you have noted, as others have noted, 41:04.464 --> 41:06.640 they have absorbed a lot of casualties 41:06.640 --> 41:09.052 and yet they've been resilient through that. 41:09.052 --> 41:13.219 But there is a need to ensure that they get into a normal 41:13.814 --> 41:16.054 operational cycle that allows them to recover, 41:16.054 --> 41:18.433 to rebuild themselves, to reset themselves 41:18.433 --> 41:19.978 and then get back into the fight. 41:19.978 --> 41:21.289 And I think that as we move forward 41:21.289 --> 41:23.838 that will be the challenge that General Nicholson and I 41:23.838 --> 41:25.496 will have to manage. 41:25.496 --> 41:27.090 - Yeah, and I would agree with that. 41:27.090 --> 41:29.762 And I think that there's an effect 41:29.762 --> 41:32.529 that the new president has on the fighting troops over there 41:32.529 --> 41:36.043 (mumbles) yield a better performance. 41:36.043 --> 41:37.685 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 41:37.685 --> 41:40.132 - And the fighting season has begun earlier than ever 41:40.132 --> 41:41.271 in Afghanistan. 41:41.271 --> 41:42.438 True, General? 41:42.856 --> 41:44.976 - [Votel] I think the fighting season does not end. 41:44.976 --> 41:46.324 I agree with you, Senator. 41:46.324 --> 41:48.235 - [McCain] Senator Peters. 41:48.235 --> 41:49.700 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman, 41:49.700 --> 41:52.654 and thank you to both of you today for testifying. 41:52.654 --> 41:54.101 Appreciate all that you do. 41:54.101 --> 41:55.853 You have a very difficult job and both of you 41:55.853 --> 41:58.273 do it with honor so thank you so much for your service 41:58.273 --> 41:59.167 to our country. 41:59.167 --> 42:00.012 (indistinct talking) 42:00.012 --> 42:03.334 I represent in Michigan, probably the largest 42:03.334 --> 42:05.307 (mumbles) Muslim-American community here 42:05.307 --> 42:06.610 in the United States, 42:06.610 --> 42:08.146 and had an opportunity just recently to meet 42:08.146 --> 42:10.808 with a number of community members at the Islamic Center 42:10.808 --> 42:14.975 and heard some great concern from many American community 42:17.257 --> 42:20.065 as to what they are saying in Yemen 42:20.065 --> 42:23.148 in terms of Saudi Arabian operations. 42:24.746 --> 42:26.842 What seems to be indiscriminate bombing, 42:26.842 --> 42:29.858 the killing of large numbers of civilians, I think, 42:29.858 --> 42:34.025 according to some estimates over, close to 4,000 civilians 42:34.850 --> 42:38.676 had been killed in Yemen by Saudi Arabian-led air campaign, 42:38.676 --> 42:40.861 which appears to them as indiscriminate 42:40.861 --> 42:43.654 and according to them does great damage 42:43.654 --> 42:45.139 to the United States. 42:45.139 --> 42:48.275 People see those Saudi attacks related to the United States 42:48.275 --> 42:51.192 and has been increasing recruitment 42:51.995 --> 42:54.182 for folks who wanna do harm to the United States 42:54.182 --> 42:56.153 because of the actions that are being undertaken 42:56.153 --> 42:57.986 by the Saudi Arabians. 42:58.109 --> 43:00.800 So if you could comment, General Votel, 43:00.800 --> 43:04.079 a little bit about what is happening there to us. 43:04.079 --> 43:06.815 And would you assess the cause of the large number 43:06.815 --> 43:09.115 of civilian casualties that we're seeing in Yemen 43:09.115 --> 43:11.948 and what can we do to reduce that? 43:13.286 --> 43:14.356 - Thank you for the question, Senator. 43:14.356 --> 43:15.977 I attribute that those types of situations 43:15.977 --> 43:18.977 more to the competence of the forces 43:19.881 --> 43:22.002 that are operating there and their ability 43:22.002 --> 43:23.585 to properly target. 43:24.619 --> 43:27.063 As you are aware, we do not provide intelligence 43:27.063 --> 43:29.610 for those things, we do not make decisions for them. 43:29.610 --> 43:32.808 But yet, we have a relationship with Saudi Arabia 43:32.808 --> 43:34.990 and at my level and at levels below me, 43:34.990 --> 43:37.703 my air commander, a variety of some commanders, 43:37.703 --> 43:40.086 we have engaged with our leaders 43:40.086 --> 43:42.547 and with our partner leaders in Saudi Arabia. 43:42.547 --> 43:44.673 We talked to them about the effects of this 43:44.673 --> 43:47.756 and to provide opportunities for them 43:47.897 --> 43:50.291 to learn from our experience in terms of this 43:50.291 --> 43:53.260 and improve their capabilities in this particular guard. 43:53.260 --> 43:54.852 And I think they have done that. 43:54.852 --> 43:58.352 In addition, I personally have reached out 43:58.388 --> 44:00.330 and talked to my counterpart about the importance 44:00.330 --> 44:02.868 of reaching out to international organizations 44:02.868 --> 44:05.478 like the ICRC, Doctors Without Borders 44:05.478 --> 44:07.110 who also operate in these areas 44:07.110 --> 44:10.527 and ask that they establish relationships 44:10.529 --> 44:14.696 and begin a discussion between the Saudi Arabian government 44:14.889 --> 44:17.478 and Ministry of Defense and these particular organizations 44:17.478 --> 44:20.747 so we can better understand what's happening on the ground 44:20.747 --> 44:22.319 and we can begin to work through those. 44:22.319 --> 44:23.798 And I'm very happy to tell you 44:23.798 --> 44:26.298 that that is taking place now. 44:26.786 --> 44:29.684 - So you would characterize this as a training issue 44:29.684 --> 44:33.851 as opposed to some other factor that's (mumbles). 44:34.456 --> 44:37.612 - I don't attribute it to deliberate decisions 44:37.612 --> 44:39.202 to target civilians. 44:39.202 --> 44:42.785 I attribute it to a growing need to develop 44:46.636 --> 44:50.219 a better and more precise targeting process 44:50.350 --> 44:51.742 for their operations. 44:51.742 --> 44:53.416 - And are we able to assist them in that? 44:53.416 --> 44:55.999 - We don't assist them directly 44:56.680 --> 44:58.101 with targeting on the ground, 44:58.101 --> 45:01.501 but we are able to, through our experiences, 45:01.501 --> 45:03.681 through our people, engage them 45:03.681 --> 45:05.293 and help with their professionalism 45:05.293 --> 45:07.496 and give them the benefit of our experience 45:07.496 --> 45:10.277 and tactics, techniques, procedures, processes 45:10.277 --> 45:13.056 that we use to try to absolutely minimize 45:13.056 --> 45:14.254 those types of events. 45:14.254 --> 45:15.348 And we are doing that. 45:15.348 --> 45:16.243 - Well, that's good to hear. 45:16.243 --> 45:17.076 Thank you. 45:17.076 --> 45:20.726 General Votel, you also, to turn, to move to Syria now, 45:20.726 --> 45:23.635 you were recently quoted in the New York Times 45:23.635 --> 45:24.922 about saying that, "We want to bring 45:24.922 --> 45:26.757 "the right capabilities forward, 45:26.757 --> 45:28.650 "not all of those necessarily resonant 45:28.650 --> 45:30.723 "in the special operations community. 45:30.723 --> 45:33.627 "If we need additional artillery or things like that 45:33.627 --> 45:36.835 "I wanna bring those forward to augment our operations." 45:36.835 --> 45:41.002 And I know today, in the news, there's artillery unit 45:41.367 --> 45:45.367 that I believe is being positioned in Syria now. 45:45.406 --> 45:48.140 In your estimate, what is the right mix of conventional 45:48.140 --> 45:51.355 and special operations forces that are gonna be required 45:51.355 --> 45:53.022 to succeed in Syria? 45:53.870 --> 45:56.002 - Senator, I'm not sure I can give you an exact 45:56.002 --> 45:57.453 percentage-wise mix of this. 45:57.453 --> 46:00.703 But what I can tell you is that the way 46:01.464 --> 46:05.453 that we operate today with our special operations forces 46:05.453 --> 46:07.678 and the unique capabilities they bring, 46:07.678 --> 46:10.432 through our experience the last 15 or 16 years 46:10.432 --> 46:13.830 we have become very comfortable and capable 46:13.830 --> 46:15.659 of operating together. 46:15.659 --> 46:19.326 And so what I have pledged to our commanders 46:19.420 --> 46:22.027 and what I expect from them is for them to ask 46:22.027 --> 46:23.948 for the capabilities that we need. 46:23.948 --> 46:25.647 And then for us to ensure that we have 46:25.647 --> 46:26.869 the right command and control, 46:26.869 --> 46:29.973 the right force protection, the right resources in place 46:29.973 --> 46:34.056 to ensure that it can function properly together. 46:34.101 --> 46:37.100 And that to me is much more important 46:37.100 --> 46:40.448 than a particular mix of whatever the capabilities are. 46:40.448 --> 46:43.288 I think as we move more towards the latter part 46:43.288 --> 46:46.992 of these operations, into more of the stability 46:46.992 --> 46:49.116 and other aspects of the operations 46:49.116 --> 46:52.840 we will see more conventional forces requirements perhaps. 46:52.840 --> 46:54.068 - Right, thank you, General. 46:54.068 --> 46:55.364 - [McCain] Senator Wicker. 46:55.364 --> 46:59.281 - Let's get back to Afghanistan, General Votel. 47:01.767 --> 47:05.184 Do the Afghan people support the presence 47:05.446 --> 47:07.696 of the United States there? 47:08.311 --> 47:11.144 - I believe that they do, Senator. 47:11.405 --> 47:13.010 - And how do you measure that? 47:13.010 --> 47:15.468 - I think we measure that by favorability of ratings 47:15.468 --> 47:19.345 that we see of them for the government of Afghanistan 47:19.345 --> 47:22.845 and the activities that they are pursuing, 47:23.436 --> 47:27.603 and I think we measure that through our direct contact 47:28.255 --> 47:30.366 with them with teams that we have out there in the ground 47:30.366 --> 47:33.317 and others that interact with the Afghan people 47:33.317 --> 47:34.743 on a regular basis. 47:34.743 --> 47:36.649 - And as a matter of fact, several years ago 47:36.649 --> 47:40.649 there was a loya jirga convened of most African, 47:40.676 --> 47:44.843 I mean most Afghan leaders and they overwhelmingly 47:45.644 --> 47:48.407 were in support of the United States presence there 47:48.407 --> 47:52.490 to protect them against what had happened before. 47:52.942 --> 47:57.109 Has there been another loya jirga, or do we simply assume 47:57.147 --> 48:00.048 that the leadership of, the elected leadership 48:00.048 --> 48:02.881 of the government represents them? 48:03.825 --> 48:05.765 - There's not been another loya jirga, I think, 48:05.765 --> 48:09.932 of the same scope that you've referenced, Senator, 48:10.309 --> 48:13.092 but we do pay attention to the polling. 48:13.092 --> 48:15.217 I would note in some recent polls that I've seen, 48:15.217 --> 48:19.332 the favorability ratings for the Taliban are very low 48:19.332 --> 48:23.499 and a 6% to 7% range as opposed to much, much higher 48:23.653 --> 48:25.571 for the government of Afghanistan. 48:25.571 --> 48:29.238 - You had strong praise for President Ghani. 48:29.558 --> 48:33.427 How is the relationship there between the president 48:33.427 --> 48:36.547 and Mr. Abdullah, who was his nearest competitor? 48:36.547 --> 48:38.708 - It has improved significantly. 48:38.708 --> 48:41.518 And I could attribute that directly to the engagement 48:41.518 --> 48:43.497 of our ambassadors on the ground 48:43.497 --> 48:45.279 who have personally invested in that 48:45.279 --> 48:47.793 and worked that relationship and it has had 48:47.793 --> 48:50.392 a positive impact on our operations. 48:50.392 --> 48:51.541 - That's good to hear. 48:51.541 --> 48:53.500 Now, the information we have, 48:53.500 --> 48:56.250 and the chairman alluded to this. 48:58.260 --> 49:01.510 The Afghan government controls 57% 49:02.409 --> 49:04.659 of the country's districts. 49:05.230 --> 49:08.656 A year and a half ago that figure was 72%, 49:08.656 --> 49:09.823 what happened? 49:10.891 --> 49:13.761 - I think that numbers and, Senator, 49:13.761 --> 49:16.338 I would tell you that there are other numbers out there. 49:16.338 --> 49:18.063 We have some slightly different ones 49:18.063 --> 49:21.263 but they're in the general ballpark of what you're saying. 49:21.263 --> 49:22.386 - Generally, those numbers are correct. 49:22.386 --> 49:23.538 - In general-- 49:23.538 --> 49:26.683 - So there's been a significant drop, as the chairman said, 49:26.683 --> 49:27.977 in a year and a half. 49:27.977 --> 49:30.486 - There has been, there have been areas 49:30.486 --> 49:34.653 that we would put into the contested space area here 49:35.855 --> 49:39.105 that have increased over the last year. 49:39.450 --> 49:40.481 So certainly-- 49:40.481 --> 49:43.304 - And that your testimony would be that this hasn't happened 49:43.304 --> 49:46.887 because the support among the Afghan people 49:47.418 --> 49:49.918 of our efforts has diminished. 49:50.038 --> 49:51.941 - No, I don't think so. 49:51.941 --> 49:53.014 I think this is-- 49:53.014 --> 49:54.273 - Something we did. 49:54.273 --> 49:57.485 - I think this is an effect of the fighting 49:57.485 --> 50:00.799 that is taking place and of the efforts by the Taliban 50:00.799 --> 50:04.966 to be more resurgent in specific areas in Afghanistan. 50:06.380 --> 50:07.463 - Well, okay. 50:08.237 --> 50:12.404 General Nicholson said, in talking about the stalemate, 50:12.899 --> 50:15.317 that, "What would break the stalemate 50:15.317 --> 50:19.484 "are offensive capabilities such as special forces 50:19.905 --> 50:24.072 "and allowing the air force to overmatch the Taliban." 50:26.635 --> 50:30.802 Also, he said, "We have a shortfall of a few thousand troops 50:34.265 --> 50:37.247 "in Afghan for the train, advice and assist mission." 50:37.247 --> 50:40.257 Would you talk about those two aspects 50:40.257 --> 50:44.424 and would you support a few thousand more American troops 50:45.182 --> 50:47.148 to get the job done in this mission? 50:47.148 --> 50:48.825 - Senator, with respect to the last part of your question, 50:48.825 --> 50:50.612 that's certainly a discussion we're having 50:50.612 --> 50:52.256 with the secretary right now. 50:52.256 --> 50:56.423 I won't pre-stage the decision here (mumbles) 50:58.111 --> 51:00.115 that's certainly his regard but certainly 51:00.115 --> 51:04.282 I agree with what General Nicholson's approach is. 51:05.362 --> 51:09.445 And I do agree that one of our efforts to improve 51:10.598 --> 51:13.099 the capabilities and equipment of the Afghan Air Force 51:13.099 --> 51:16.774 is a big part of this as it's improving and expanding 51:16.774 --> 51:19.675 their special operations capability. 51:19.675 --> 51:20.508 - Thank you. 51:20.508 --> 51:22.841 General Waldhauser, the Wasp 51:25.395 --> 51:29.562 amphibious expedition did over 100 consecutive days 51:30.259 --> 51:34.426 of strikes is considered to be an impressive success. 51:35.614 --> 51:38.654 What lessons have we learned from that deployment? 51:38.654 --> 51:40.873 And are we sending you what you need 51:40.873 --> 51:43.083 to get the job done in that respect? 51:43.083 --> 51:45.333 - The Wasp has been a marine aviation that was on board, 51:45.333 --> 51:48.435 that ship was a significant contributor to the GNA forces 51:48.435 --> 51:50.518 in ridding Sirte of ISIS. 51:51.567 --> 51:53.571 Lessons learned, at the tactical level, 51:53.571 --> 51:55.272 have to do with coordination on the ground 51:55.272 --> 51:58.800 in special forces who are there on the ground, 51:58.800 --> 52:00.898 but I think it's important to point out that they're, 52:00.898 --> 52:02.836 over that, from one August to the middle of December 52:02.836 --> 52:04.992 there were nearly 500 strikes, 52:04.992 --> 52:07.992 most of them came from ISR platforms 52:08.529 --> 52:11.047 but a lot of them, as you said, came from the ship. 52:11.047 --> 52:15.214 And I think the ability to have zero civilian causalities 52:15.364 --> 52:17.411 in a very, very dense urban environment 52:17.411 --> 52:19.406 underscores the training and the professionalism 52:19.406 --> 52:21.768 of those who were conducting that operation. 52:21.768 --> 52:24.809 So in some that was a huge asset for us, 52:24.809 --> 52:26.394 we actually borrowed it from CENTCOM 52:26.394 --> 52:28.514 in order to make it happen, but that's how we have 52:28.514 --> 52:29.794 to do business these days. 52:29.794 --> 52:31.803 There's the AFRICOM and CENTCOM 52:31.803 --> 52:35.970 coordinate on various transregional asset changes, 52:36.406 --> 52:38.724 and that was an example where it worked very well. 52:38.724 --> 52:40.238 - [Wicker] Thank you, sir. 52:40.238 --> 52:42.218 - [McCain] Senator Shaheen. 52:42.218 --> 52:43.077 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 52:43.077 --> 52:46.095 And General Votel and Waldhauser, thank you both 52:46.095 --> 52:48.621 for your testimony and for your service. 52:48.621 --> 52:52.371 General Votel, there's already been reference 52:52.386 --> 52:55.116 to the marines who have arrived in Syria. 52:55.116 --> 52:57.514 The Washington Post story this morning reports 52:57.514 --> 53:00.208 that the "Battalion landing team, 53:00.208 --> 53:02.644 "1st Battalion, 4th Marines, will man the guns 53:02.644 --> 53:05.506 "and deliver fire support for US-backed local forces 53:05.506 --> 53:08.802 "who are preparing an assault on the city." 53:08.802 --> 53:10.334 First of all, is that accurate? 53:10.334 --> 53:13.363 And should we take that to mean an assault 53:13.363 --> 53:15.113 is imminent in Raqqa? 53:16.019 --> 53:18.883 - Well, certainly we won't talk about any of timings 53:18.883 --> 53:21.275 of any of our (mumbles) operations, 53:21.275 --> 53:22.634 but our intention here with this 53:22.634 --> 53:24.045 and (mumbles) within the authorities 53:24.045 --> 53:27.690 that are provided to me right now was to ensure 53:27.690 --> 53:30.650 that we had redundant, capable fire support 53:30.650 --> 53:32.315 on the ground to support our partners 53:32.315 --> 53:34.517 and ensure that we could take advantage 53:34.517 --> 53:38.350 of opportunities and ensure continued progress 53:38.499 --> 53:39.962 that we've been seeing. 53:39.962 --> 53:42.874 - And are you comfortable that that gives us that progress 53:42.874 --> 53:44.100 and support that we need? 53:44.100 --> 53:48.267 - In conjunction with our excellent coalition air forces, 53:48.325 --> 53:51.867 yes, I am very confident that that will help us. 53:51.867 --> 53:52.867 - Thank you. 53:53.244 --> 53:57.411 Yesterday in our meeting, and we heard similar comments 53:57.644 --> 54:00.289 from General Nicholson when he was here 54:00.289 --> 54:04.206 talking about Russian influence in Afghanistan, 54:04.408 --> 54:06.278 they're trying to legitimize the Taliban 54:06.278 --> 54:09.649 and undermine our mission and NATO's mission there. 54:09.649 --> 54:12.315 Can you talk about what alternatives we have 54:12.315 --> 54:15.565 to respond to Russian activities there? 54:16.124 --> 54:19.129 - I think the best alternative that we have 54:19.129 --> 54:22.298 is to ensure that we demonstrate our commitment 54:22.298 --> 54:24.315 to the mission that we have in place here 54:24.315 --> 54:27.098 with the government of Afghanistan, 54:27.098 --> 54:29.694 certainly with our two-fold mission 54:29.694 --> 54:32.153 focused on counter-terrorism, and then, of course, 54:32.153 --> 54:34.174 the train, advice and assist mission. 54:34.174 --> 54:36.281 So the most important thing we can do 54:36.281 --> 54:38.415 is to send a very clear message that we are going 54:38.415 --> 54:41.561 to see this mission through and support 54:41.561 --> 54:43.359 the government of Afghanistan in the way 54:43.359 --> 54:46.039 that they've acquired with military capabilities 54:46.039 --> 54:49.442 and other things to ensure that they can be successful. 54:49.442 --> 54:52.442 - And to what extent does our effort 54:53.307 --> 54:57.009 in Eastern Europe with NATO affect Russia's ability 54:57.009 --> 55:00.759 to undermine what we're doing in Afghanistan? 55:01.620 --> 55:03.384 How much are they, do they need to be focused 55:03.384 --> 55:06.551 on what's happening in Eastern Europe? 55:09.157 --> 55:11.155 - From my perspective, I'd like 'em totally focused 55:11.155 --> 55:13.426 on Eastern Europe and not on Afghanistan, 55:13.426 --> 55:16.239 if we can, I'm being a little fictitious here but-- 55:16.239 --> 55:17.123 - [Shaheen] Right, I get it. 55:17.123 --> 55:19.521 - I'm not sure that I can comment that there's necessarily 55:19.521 --> 55:23.188 a direct relationship between that, Senator. 55:24.091 --> 55:28.258 Certainly I think that if their attention can be drawn 55:29.385 --> 55:33.552 to other challenges, other problems that they are focused on 55:33.613 --> 55:34.780 that helps us. 55:35.683 --> 55:36.683 - Thank you. 55:36.701 --> 55:40.106 General Waldhauser, in your statement you point out 55:40.106 --> 55:43.939 that long-term success in slowing the progress 55:46.209 --> 55:50.376 of Boko Haram and ISIS in West Africa requires Nigeria 55:51.456 --> 55:54.747 to address development governance and economic deficiencies 55:54.747 --> 55:58.580 which are drivers of terrorism in that region. 55:58.707 --> 56:02.401 As we look at the future where one in four Africans 56:02.401 --> 56:06.323 are Nigerian, what happens in Nigeria has a huge impact 56:06.323 --> 56:10.156 on what happens throughout the rest of Africa, 56:10.360 --> 56:11.863 do you agree with that? 56:11.863 --> 56:12.707 - I mostly definitely do. 56:12.707 --> 56:14.980 With 182 million people in that country, 56:14.980 --> 56:16.854 it's the seventh largest country in the world, 56:16.854 --> 56:18.660 what happens there has a significant impact 56:18.660 --> 56:20.158 not only in the continent but it could be 56:20.158 --> 56:22.923 in Europe and United States as well. 56:22.923 --> 56:27.090 - And to what extent do we feel like they are addressing 56:27.444 --> 56:31.151 the threat from Boko Haram and also addressing 56:31.151 --> 56:34.584 those deficiencies that have existed there? 56:34.584 --> 56:36.639 - Senator, two weeks I was in Abuja 56:36.639 --> 56:38.693 in talk with the acting vice president, 56:38.693 --> 56:40.382 and he's very, very aware of the fact 56:40.382 --> 56:42.276 that there's still much more that needs to be done 56:42.276 --> 56:45.177 in northeastern Nigeria both with Boko Haram 56:45.177 --> 56:46.909 and ISIS West Africa. 56:46.909 --> 56:50.992 And I came away from that visit in a positive way 56:51.020 --> 56:52.942 because there have been some human rights issues 56:52.942 --> 56:54.133 with the Nigerians. 56:54.133 --> 56:54.966 - [Shaheen] Right. 56:54.966 --> 56:55.877 - But they are taking that on. 56:55.877 --> 56:57.741 I mean they're making some progress there. 56:57.741 --> 56:59.431 But I think that the acting vice president 56:59.431 --> 57:02.119 or the acting president understands there's still a threat. 57:02.119 --> 57:05.182 Boko Haram has weakened a bit, but they're still a threat. 57:05.182 --> 57:09.134 ISIS West Africa is still there and they are still a threat. 57:09.134 --> 57:12.531 But this Lake Chad Basin region taskforce 57:12.531 --> 57:15.572 has been doing fairly well with at least trying to keep 57:15.572 --> 57:18.725 the problem inside the Nigerian borders. 57:18.725 --> 57:22.410 - And are they working to address the historic divisions 57:22.410 --> 57:24.712 between the Christian southern part of the country 57:24.712 --> 57:26.000 and the Muslim north? 57:26.000 --> 57:30.167 Are there any initiatives underway that help to resolve 57:30.226 --> 57:32.975 some of those historic conflicts? 57:32.975 --> 57:34.515 - Senator, I'm not aware of any per se. 57:34.515 --> 57:36.427 I would just say that in my discussions 57:36.427 --> 57:38.710 with senior leadership there two weeks ago 57:38.710 --> 57:42.877 they have a fairly wide ranging and overarching strategy 57:42.913 --> 57:45.212 of where they wanna go which ultimately will turnover 57:45.212 --> 57:48.712 northeastern Nigeria to the police forces. 57:49.089 --> 57:49.922 - Thank you. 57:49.922 --> 57:51.922 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 57:52.454 --> 57:53.919 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 57:53.919 --> 57:57.182 General Votel, since the nuclear (mumbles) with Iran 57:57.182 --> 57:59.929 was announced Iran's behavior in the region 57:59.929 --> 58:03.708 in support for terrorism and its domestic repression, 58:03.708 --> 58:05.716 it appears to have gotten worse. 58:05.716 --> 58:08.966 Iran wields significant power in Syria, 58:10.246 --> 58:13.246 Lebanon, Iraq and Yemen and it seeks 58:13.326 --> 58:15.826 to destabilize our key allies. 58:16.587 --> 58:20.337 What do you see as Iran's goal in the region? 58:20.644 --> 58:23.700 - Senator, I believe Iran seeks to be the regional hegemon, 58:23.700 --> 58:27.783 to be the most influential country in the region. 58:28.417 --> 58:31.679 - And how would you characterize Iran's regional behavior 58:31.679 --> 58:34.174 since the nuclear agreement, has it improved 58:34.174 --> 58:35.740 or has it worsened? 58:35.740 --> 58:38.329 - I would describe it as destabilizing to the region. 58:38.329 --> 58:41.891 It has not been helpful to anything that I can see 58:41.891 --> 58:44.088 going on across the region. 58:44.088 --> 58:46.765 - How would you characterize Iran's relationship 58:46.765 --> 58:48.932 with Russia in the region? 58:50.258 --> 58:52.386 - Again, not having first-hand knowledge on that, 58:52.386 --> 58:55.569 I guess I would characterize it as they are, 58:55.569 --> 58:57.964 they find areas of cooperation. 58:57.964 --> 58:59.908 But I am particularly concerned 58:59.908 --> 59:03.190 how both Iran and Russia have cooperated 59:03.190 --> 59:06.909 to prop up the Assad regime and make them stronger. 59:06.909 --> 59:09.659 That is certainly of some concern 59:10.177 --> 59:13.819 so I do see that level of cooperation being very unhelpful 59:13.819 --> 59:16.517 to the things that we are doing across the region. 59:16.517 --> 59:18.668 I don't know what the long-term views 59:18.668 --> 59:20.616 of each of these countries might be 59:20.616 --> 59:22.421 and how that might play out, but it certainly looks 59:22.421 --> 59:25.652 like they are taking the opportunity of convenience 59:25.652 --> 59:28.235 to join efforts in some regard. 59:29.531 --> 59:33.281 - And I wanted to ask you your long-term view 59:33.287 --> 59:35.008 with regards to the United States 59:35.008 --> 59:37.591 and our position in the region. 59:38.216 --> 59:42.383 First of all, just with Iran's destabilizing activities 59:43.202 --> 59:46.612 but also with their relationship with Russia. 59:46.612 --> 59:50.779 Can you give us, in your best opinion, how that affects 59:52.254 --> 59:55.378 the United States and our involvement? 59:55.378 --> 59:56.700 - I can't, Senator. 59:56.700 --> 59:59.107 And I'll offer you my observation and this is based 59:59.107 --> 01:00:01.366 on my travels throughout the region over the last year 01:00:01.366 --> 01:00:05.533 and meeting with our partners across many of the countries, 01:00:06.009 --> 01:00:09.259 and my consistent takeaway here is that 01:00:09.657 --> 01:00:13.430 the partners in the region would strongly prefer 01:00:13.430 --> 01:00:15.491 to have a relationship with the United States 01:00:15.491 --> 01:00:19.158 over any other nation that might be external 01:00:19.944 --> 01:00:21.092 to the Middle East. 01:00:21.092 --> 01:00:24.126 And I think that is an opportunity for us 01:00:24.126 --> 01:00:25.434 to move forward on. 01:00:25.434 --> 01:00:27.708 We have long-term historical relationships 01:00:27.708 --> 01:00:29.703 with many of these countries and we should 01:00:29.703 --> 01:00:31.829 capitalize on that as we move forward, 01:00:31.829 --> 01:00:34.399 and I think that offers us the best opportunity. 01:00:34.399 --> 01:00:37.588 - As we look over the last year, we've seen Iran 01:00:37.588 --> 01:00:41.255 has escalated its harassment of our vessels, 01:00:41.769 --> 01:00:44.108 our personnel in the Persian Gulf. 01:00:44.108 --> 01:00:47.466 And just last week multiple fast attack vessels 01:00:47.466 --> 01:00:50.966 from the IRGC came close to a US Navy ship 01:00:52.135 --> 01:00:53.966 in the Strait of Hormuz and they forced it 01:00:53.966 --> 01:00:55.633 to change direction. 01:00:55.661 --> 01:00:59.661 What is CENTCOM doing to address that harassment 01:01:01.159 --> 01:01:03.076 that were seen by Iran? 01:01:03.520 --> 01:01:06.981 - First off, we are ensuring that our maritime forces 01:01:06.981 --> 01:01:11.148 have all the right rules of engagement and capabilities 01:01:12.256 --> 01:01:14.879 and training and techniques to deal with that, 01:01:14.879 --> 01:01:17.048 and I do believe they are effectively doing that. 01:01:17.048 --> 01:01:18.242 One of the first things that I did 01:01:18.242 --> 01:01:20.068 after coming in to command was get on a ship 01:01:20.068 --> 01:01:21.559 and go through the Strait of Hormuz 01:01:21.559 --> 01:01:23.099 so I could see it with my own eyes, 01:01:23.099 --> 01:01:24.536 and I was extraordinarily impressed 01:01:24.536 --> 01:01:28.619 with the maturity of our sailors and the judgment 01:01:28.649 --> 01:01:31.081 of our leaders as we went through that. 01:01:31.081 --> 01:01:35.248 More broadly, I think we have to hold Iran accountable 01:01:36.206 --> 01:01:37.259 for their actions. 01:01:37.259 --> 01:01:40.592 No other nation operates the way they do 01:01:40.895 --> 01:01:42.348 in the Arabian Gulf. 01:01:42.348 --> 01:01:45.431 Nobody does that in the Arabian Gulf. 01:01:45.623 --> 01:01:47.867 And they need to be held accountable for that 01:01:47.867 --> 01:01:49.779 and they need to be exposed for those types 01:01:49.779 --> 01:01:53.946 of unprofessional, unsafe, and abnormal activities. 01:01:55.012 --> 01:01:57.668 - It sounds like you are very concerned 01:01:57.668 --> 01:02:00.876 with Iran's growing asymmetrical capabilities, 01:02:00.876 --> 01:02:03.626 and that includes its acquisition 01:02:03.727 --> 01:02:07.272 of advanced cruise missiles, I would assume. 01:02:07.272 --> 01:02:08.676 - It does, Senator. 01:02:08.676 --> 01:02:12.843 - What about naval mines, ballistic missiles, and UAVs, 01:02:14.501 --> 01:02:18.501 how do those threats, I guess when we're looking 01:02:19.709 --> 01:02:22.227 at our interest in the Persian Gulf 01:02:22.227 --> 01:02:25.119 and our allies' interest in the Persian Gulf, 01:02:25.119 --> 01:02:28.444 how do those growing threats affect that? 01:02:28.444 --> 01:02:30.739 - Well, the way they affect us is they provide Iran 01:02:30.739 --> 01:02:34.363 with a layered capability where they can use 01:02:34.363 --> 01:02:36.804 their fast boats, they can use cruise missiles, 01:02:36.804 --> 01:02:39.547 they're gonna use radars, they're gonna use UAVs 01:02:39.547 --> 01:02:41.747 to potentially dominate specific areas. 01:02:41.747 --> 01:02:45.914 So this is a concern and it is something that certainly 01:02:46.370 --> 01:02:48.770 we look at in our capability, this is something 01:02:48.770 --> 01:02:51.772 that we have engaged our partners in the region on 01:02:51.772 --> 01:02:54.689 on how we work together to mitigate 01:02:54.902 --> 01:02:57.892 the effects of that layered approach 01:02:57.892 --> 01:03:01.392 that Iran pursues in these critical choke points. 01:03:01.392 --> 01:03:02.225 - Thank you, sir. 01:03:02.225 --> 01:03:04.225 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 01:03:04.643 --> 01:03:07.172 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for being here. 01:03:07.172 --> 01:03:10.146 I would like to return to an issue raised by Senator Reed. 01:03:10.146 --> 01:03:12.233 There's a big debate going on right now, as you know, 01:03:12.233 --> 01:03:13.905 about military spending and, of course, 01:03:13.905 --> 01:03:16.014 we need a strong military, but the military 01:03:16.014 --> 01:03:20.181 is not the only element of our national security strategy. 01:03:21.013 --> 01:03:23.588 Spending on security outside the military budget 01:03:23.588 --> 01:03:27.671 is very small, diplomacy and development combined 01:03:27.767 --> 01:03:30.490 is about 1% of our annual budget. 01:03:30.490 --> 01:03:33.045 But it includes programs that promote democracy, 01:03:33.045 --> 01:03:36.846 human rights, the rule of law that boost economic growth, 01:03:36.846 --> 01:03:40.070 that improve access to education, that fight hunger, 01:03:40.070 --> 01:03:42.587 that treat infectious diseases and it provide 01:03:42.587 --> 01:03:45.023 disaster relief around the world. 01:03:45.023 --> 01:03:48.106 General Votel and General Waldhauser, 01:03:48.184 --> 01:03:51.168 you command our armed forces in some 01:03:51.168 --> 01:03:55.289 of the most active and dangerous parts of the world, 01:03:55.289 --> 01:03:57.845 do you think the activities of the state department 01:03:57.845 --> 01:04:00.965 and other civilian partners are a waste of time 01:04:00.965 --> 01:04:02.548 and taxpayer money? 01:04:02.907 --> 01:04:04.083 - I do not, Senator. 01:04:04.083 --> 01:04:05.083 - Thank you. 01:04:05.821 --> 01:04:06.654 - [Waldhauser] Senator, nor do I. 01:04:06.654 --> 01:04:08.300 They're a big part of what we do. 01:04:08.300 --> 01:04:09.133 - Thank you. 01:04:09.133 --> 01:04:13.300 And I agree, but the Trump administration's blueprint budget 01:04:13.543 --> 01:04:16.145 would increase defense spending in some areas 01:04:16.145 --> 01:04:19.372 by massively slashing through other programs 01:04:19.372 --> 01:04:21.914 that are critical for our national security. 01:04:21.914 --> 01:04:24.838 Not every international problem is the same, 01:04:24.838 --> 01:04:28.402 and the right tool is not always a military response. 01:04:28.402 --> 01:04:30.778 Kneecapping our state department by cutting 01:04:30.778 --> 01:04:34.517 an already small foreign aid budget makes America 01:04:34.517 --> 01:04:37.600 less safe, and that's just not smart. 01:04:37.988 --> 01:04:39.918 I'd like to turn to another issue, 01:04:39.918 --> 01:04:42.182 and that's the ongoing fight against ISIS 01:04:42.182 --> 01:04:43.932 in Iraq and in Syria. 01:04:44.888 --> 01:04:47.792 General Votel, you contributed to the Pentagon's plan 01:04:47.792 --> 01:04:51.623 to accelerate the fight against ISIS, which Secretary Mattis 01:04:51.623 --> 01:04:53.977 delivered to the White House last week. 01:04:53.977 --> 01:04:56.202 I have every confidence that the US military 01:04:56.202 --> 01:04:58.714 can defeat ISIS on the battlefield 01:04:58.714 --> 01:05:02.470 and help retake strategically important cities, 01:05:02.470 --> 01:05:06.559 but what I wanna ask you is about what comes next. 01:05:06.559 --> 01:05:08.561 You're going to be mediating between 01:05:08.561 --> 01:05:10.251 the armed opposition forces 01:05:10.251 --> 01:05:13.001 that dislike each other intensely 01:05:13.055 --> 01:05:15.286 in cities where existing infrastructure 01:05:15.286 --> 01:05:18.508 has been completely destroyed, with a population 01:05:18.508 --> 01:05:21.802 that has been traumatized and displaced. 01:05:21.802 --> 01:05:25.969 What will it take to create conditions for normal life 01:05:26.607 --> 01:05:29.024 to resume in Mosul and Raqqa? 01:05:30.522 --> 01:05:32.804 - I think it starts, certainly following up 01:05:32.804 --> 01:05:35.336 our military operations with good local governance 01:05:35.336 --> 01:05:38.669 and getting, addressing humanitarian aid 01:05:39.551 --> 01:05:42.468 of addressing issues like demining, 01:05:42.555 --> 01:05:46.055 of restoring basic services to the people, 01:05:46.477 --> 01:05:48.595 of trying to bring additional aid in there 01:05:48.595 --> 01:05:51.221 so small businesses and other things can get going 01:05:51.221 --> 01:05:53.918 and then the bigger aspects of governance 01:05:53.918 --> 01:05:55.674 can begin to take place. 01:05:55.674 --> 01:05:58.823 And so as we look at our military operations, 01:05:58.823 --> 01:06:01.501 particularly as we look at places like Raqqa or Mosul, 01:06:01.501 --> 01:06:03.886 what we have tried to do is ensure that our military plan 01:06:03.886 --> 01:06:07.886 is very closely linked to the political planning 01:06:08.118 --> 01:06:11.319 that has 'the what comes next' so that we don't just 01:06:11.319 --> 01:06:13.717 finish a military operation and then just leave. 01:06:13.717 --> 01:06:15.795 It is important that we have local hold forces, 01:06:15.795 --> 01:06:19.089 it is important that we predetermine the local governance 01:06:19.089 --> 01:06:21.366 is gonna come in and begin to take this over. 01:06:21.366 --> 01:06:24.143 So I think that's an extraordinarily important point 01:06:24.143 --> 01:06:26.419 in the transition for military operations 01:06:26.419 --> 01:06:30.307 to the stability operations to things that come next 01:06:30.307 --> 01:06:34.224 I think is a significant lesson learned for us, 01:06:34.790 --> 01:06:37.340 relearn for us many times, and it is something 01:06:37.340 --> 01:06:40.324 that we have specifically focused on in this campaign. 01:06:40.324 --> 01:06:41.157 - Thank you. 01:06:41.157 --> 01:06:43.077 I'm very glad to hear that, General. 01:06:43.077 --> 01:06:45.327 Planning for peace is hard. 01:06:45.622 --> 01:06:48.860 We didn't do it after we topple Saddam Hussein 01:06:48.860 --> 01:06:52.104 and we are still paying a price for that blindness today. 01:06:52.104 --> 01:06:53.496 And I don't wanna see us turn around 01:06:53.496 --> 01:06:55.654 and make that same mistake again. 01:06:55.654 --> 01:06:58.353 I think we need to be very careful 01:06:58.353 --> 01:07:00.684 that we don't create an environment 01:07:00.684 --> 01:07:03.756 that breeds the next generation of extremist, 01:07:03.756 --> 01:07:05.990 and I am grateful for your work in this area, 01:07:05.990 --> 01:07:08.149 I'm grateful to both of you for all that you're doing. 01:07:08.149 --> 01:07:08.982 Thank you. 01:07:08.982 --> 01:07:10.973 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 01:07:10.973 --> 01:07:12.334 - On behalf of Chairman McCain, 01:07:12.334 --> 01:07:14.673 let me recognize Senator Cotton. 01:07:14.673 --> 01:07:15.506 - Thank you. 01:07:15.506 --> 01:07:17.105 Gentlemen, welcome back to the committee. 01:07:17.105 --> 01:07:20.585 General Waldhauser, you were speaking with Senator Shaheen 01:07:20.585 --> 01:07:23.246 about Nigeria and the role that it plays, 01:07:23.246 --> 01:07:25.774 not just in African continent but around the world. 01:07:25.774 --> 01:07:29.941 Speak a little bit about what President Buhari's absence 01:07:30.293 --> 01:07:34.460 from the country means and what the status is right now 01:07:35.238 --> 01:07:38.488 of Nigerian politics for the committee. 01:07:38.921 --> 01:07:39.966 - Senator, I would just have to say 01:07:39.966 --> 01:07:41.656 that open source reporting indicates 01:07:41.656 --> 01:07:44.953 that he's still in London receiving medical help. 01:07:44.953 --> 01:07:46.492 That was a topic that was not discussed 01:07:46.492 --> 01:07:48.228 with the (mumbles) when I was there. 01:07:48.228 --> 01:07:52.395 But what I did observe was acting president Osinbajo 01:07:53.996 --> 01:07:56.273 has done extremely well, he's very competent, 01:07:56.273 --> 01:07:59.574 he has a very, I would say, very wide view 01:07:59.574 --> 01:08:01.157 of the problems and issues and he seems 01:08:01.157 --> 01:08:03.053 to wanna get after him and he was definitely 01:08:03.053 --> 01:08:05.749 genuinely interested in making things happen. 01:08:05.749 --> 01:08:08.338 And I thought we had some very frank discussions with him 01:08:08.338 --> 01:08:11.590 on the way ahead with regards to our support for 01:08:11.590 --> 01:08:15.173 the defeat of ISIL West African Boko Haram. 01:08:15.658 --> 01:08:18.157 - Okay, what's the level of political consensus 01:08:18.157 --> 01:08:20.289 and stability between the north and the south 01:08:20.289 --> 01:08:22.220 in that country right now? 01:08:22.220 --> 01:08:24.172 - I really couldn't give you a fair assessment of that. 01:08:24.172 --> 01:08:25.638 That wasn't part of the discussion. 01:08:25.638 --> 01:08:27.632 We didn't have the topic. 01:08:27.632 --> 01:08:28.548 - I understand. 01:08:28.548 --> 01:08:31.150 Looking to the east, would you please discuss 01:08:31.150 --> 01:08:35.317 the strategic implications of China's new base in Djibouti 01:08:35.459 --> 01:08:36.988 and what it means for our presence there 01:08:36.988 --> 01:08:39.003 and throughout the (mumbles) of Africa? 01:08:39.003 --> 01:08:41.498 - So the Chinese base is right outside Camp Lemonnier, 01:08:41.498 --> 01:08:44.556 about four miles or so from our base, 01:08:44.556 --> 01:08:48.112 the intention for that location was to provide a port 01:08:48.112 --> 01:08:50.386 for their ships to have in the area. 01:08:50.386 --> 01:08:53.592 They have about 2,200 peacekeepers on the continent. 01:08:53.592 --> 01:08:56.228 This is the first time for them that they've kinda journeyed 01:08:56.228 --> 01:08:57.728 in that direction. 01:08:57.813 --> 01:09:01.980 And so right now it's due to be completed later this summer. 01:09:02.046 --> 01:09:03.644 I would just say the concern that I have, 01:09:03.644 --> 01:09:06.424 for an operational perspective, is the operational security, 01:09:06.424 --> 01:09:09.652 when we operate so close to a Chinese base, 01:09:09.652 --> 01:09:12.392 and the Camp Lemonnier, Djibouti area is not only AFRICOM 01:09:12.392 --> 01:09:14.557 but CENTCOM uses it, SOCOM uses it, 01:09:14.557 --> 01:09:16.336 TRANSCOM, EUCOM and the like 01:09:16.336 --> 01:09:18.290 so it's a very strategic location. 01:09:18.290 --> 01:09:20.597 And visiting Djiboutian officials twice, 01:09:20.597 --> 01:09:23.972 so I've talked to their president and expressed our concerns 01:09:23.972 --> 01:09:27.458 about some of the things that are important to us 01:09:27.458 --> 01:09:29.993 about what the Chinese can or should not 01:09:29.993 --> 01:09:32.493 or cannot do at that location. 01:09:33.123 --> 01:09:34.022 - Thank you. 01:09:34.022 --> 01:09:36.730 General Votel, you already spoke with several senators 01:09:36.730 --> 01:09:40.183 this morning about the stalemate in Afghanistan. 01:09:40.183 --> 01:09:42.456 For many years now we on this committee 01:09:42.456 --> 01:09:44.361 and many leaders in the executive branch 01:09:44.361 --> 01:09:46.915 have been lamenting the existence of sanctuaries 01:09:46.915 --> 01:09:50.357 for the Taliban and other terrorist group in Pakistan. 01:09:50.357 --> 01:09:54.438 As you think about the strategy to break this stalemate, 01:09:54.438 --> 01:09:57.533 what's the role of eliminating those sanctuaries 01:09:57.533 --> 01:10:00.700 inside of Pakistan and how do you plan 01:10:00.800 --> 01:10:03.132 to get after this long standing problem? 01:10:03.132 --> 01:10:03.965 - Thank you, Senator. 01:10:03.965 --> 01:10:07.465 Pakistan, of course, remains a key partner 01:10:07.515 --> 01:10:09.098 in this fight here. 01:10:09.433 --> 01:10:11.018 I've been encouraged by my meetings 01:10:11.018 --> 01:10:14.257 with the new Chief of Army Staff General Bajwa 01:10:14.257 --> 01:10:17.268 in his commitment to help address this. 01:10:17.268 --> 01:10:20.664 They have done some things that had been helpful to us. 01:10:20.664 --> 01:10:24.747 Most recently they've supported General Nicholson 01:10:25.175 --> 01:10:26.993 and some operations along the border, 01:10:26.993 --> 01:10:28.895 making sure that they were well coordinated 01:10:28.895 --> 01:10:31.038 and doing the activities on their side of the border. 01:10:31.038 --> 01:10:33.051 That's a very positive sign and a move 01:10:33.051 --> 01:10:34.218 in the right direction. 01:10:34.218 --> 01:10:37.668 And they have done things against the principal concerns 01:10:37.668 --> 01:10:40.454 that we have: the Haqqani network and Taliban. 01:10:40.454 --> 01:10:44.621 But what we do need is we need that to be more persistent 01:10:45.531 --> 01:10:49.108 and continue to focus in that particular area. 01:10:49.108 --> 01:10:51.731 And so we will continue to engage 01:10:51.731 --> 01:10:54.231 with Pakistan throughout this. 01:10:54.331 --> 01:10:58.226 I think it is key to ensure that Pakistan and Afghanistan 01:10:58.226 --> 01:11:00.287 have a very good relationship. 01:11:00.287 --> 01:11:03.832 There are certainly tensions along the common border 01:11:03.832 --> 01:11:06.214 between those countries and so I think a key role 01:11:06.214 --> 01:11:08.132 that we can play is in helping 01:11:08.132 --> 01:11:10.715 move that relationship forward. 01:11:11.185 --> 01:11:14.435 - Let me ask you about, same on the map 01:11:16.087 --> 01:11:18.312 between you and Harry Harris, but it's an important, 01:11:18.312 --> 01:11:22.344 same, because it involves Pakistan and Afghanistan 01:11:22.344 --> 01:11:24.585 and India, in (mumbles). 01:11:24.585 --> 01:11:28.495 To what extent do you think Pakistan's Afghan policy 01:11:28.495 --> 01:11:31.662 is driven in part by its India policy? 01:11:31.899 --> 01:11:35.567 And in particular whether or not a independent Afghanistan 01:11:35.567 --> 01:11:39.066 conducting its own foreign policy might be adverse 01:11:39.066 --> 01:11:40.983 to Pakistani interests. 01:11:41.225 --> 01:11:44.822 - Senator, I think Pakistan's view of the region 01:11:44.822 --> 01:11:46.451 I think as they look at their interest 01:11:46.451 --> 01:11:50.241 I think it plays very largely in how they look 01:11:50.241 --> 01:11:52.824 at both sides of their country. 01:11:53.019 --> 01:11:54.386 - Okay, one final question. 01:11:54.386 --> 01:11:57.303 Since the 1970s, Russia's influence 01:11:58.081 --> 01:12:01.175 throughout the Middle East has been minimal, 01:12:01.175 --> 01:12:02.779 thanks in large part to the diplomacy 01:12:02.779 --> 01:12:06.063 of Henry Kissinger and presidents Nixon and Ford, 01:12:06.063 --> 01:12:08.903 how would you assess the level of Russia's influence 01:12:08.903 --> 01:12:10.570 in the region today? 01:12:10.840 --> 01:12:14.256 - Russia is attempting to increase their influence 01:12:14.256 --> 01:12:15.621 throughout the Middle East. 01:12:15.621 --> 01:12:19.667 As we've seen in Syria, we've seen them do things 01:12:19.667 --> 01:12:22.431 certainly with our longstanding partner Egypt 01:12:22.431 --> 01:12:24.848 and others across the region. 01:12:25.570 --> 01:12:28.687 So it is my view that they are trying to increase 01:12:28.687 --> 01:12:31.621 their influence in this critical part of the globe. 01:12:31.621 --> 01:12:32.704 - Do you think they'd been successful 01:12:32.704 --> 01:12:35.299 in any of those attempts thus far? 01:12:35.299 --> 01:12:36.971 - Well, they certainly have been successful 01:12:36.971 --> 01:12:38.738 in supporting the Assad regime. 01:12:38.738 --> 01:12:41.821 And so that's only an example of that 01:12:42.415 --> 01:12:46.248 and I'm hopeful that we'll be able to reassert 01:12:49.246 --> 01:12:51.128 our own relationships as well. 01:12:51.128 --> 01:12:52.898 - Thank you, gentlemen. 01:12:52.898 --> 01:12:54.198 - On behalf of Chairman McCain, 01:12:54.198 --> 01:12:56.698 let me recognize Senator King. 01:12:57.558 --> 01:12:59.725 - Thank you, Senator Reed. 01:12:59.748 --> 01:13:01.714 General Votel, let's talk about four areas 01:13:01.714 --> 01:13:03.523 where we're engaged in conflict: 01:13:03.523 --> 01:13:05.812 Iraq, Syria, Yemen and Afghanistan. 01:13:05.812 --> 01:13:07.399 By the way, I wanna compliment you 01:13:07.399 --> 01:13:09.067 on your written statement. 01:13:09.067 --> 01:13:11.119 It is a primer on the region that I think 01:13:11.119 --> 01:13:13.517 should be required reading for everyone in this body. 01:13:13.517 --> 01:13:17.684 It's very well done, very thoughtful and comprehensive. 01:13:18.416 --> 01:13:21.833 Who are our allies in Iraq, who are we fighting next to? 01:13:21.833 --> 01:13:23.083 The ISF, right? 01:13:23.526 --> 01:13:25.073 - That's correct, Senator. 01:13:25.073 --> 01:13:26.406 - And the Kurds. 01:13:26.966 --> 01:13:28.643 - The Peshmerga, the-- 01:13:28.643 --> 01:13:29.476 - [King] Peshmerga. 01:13:29.476 --> 01:13:31.135 - In the northern part of Iraq. 01:13:31.135 --> 01:13:33.263 - And what religion are the members 01:13:33.263 --> 01:13:35.346 of the ISF and the Kurds? 01:13:35.608 --> 01:13:37.608 - They are Muslims and-- 01:13:40.340 --> 01:13:43.310 - And in Syria we've got the Syrian democratic forces 01:13:43.310 --> 01:13:44.893 and also the Kurds. 01:13:45.245 --> 01:13:47.028 - We have Syrian Kurds and we are working 01:13:47.028 --> 01:13:49.695 with local Syrian Arabs, Turkmen 01:13:50.385 --> 01:13:53.739 and in some cases local Christian forces. 01:13:53.739 --> 01:13:56.294 - But the vast majority of those forces are Muslim, 01:13:56.294 --> 01:13:57.274 is that correct? 01:13:57.274 --> 01:13:58.432 - That is correct. 01:13:58.432 --> 01:14:02.181 - And in Yemen, UAE, Saudi Arabia those forces are Muslim? 01:14:02.181 --> 01:14:03.045 - Absolutely. 01:14:03.045 --> 01:14:05.199 - And in Afghanistan the ANSF, 01:14:05.199 --> 01:14:09.235 the Afghan National Security Forces, also Muslim? 01:14:09.235 --> 01:14:10.076 - They are Muslim. 01:14:10.076 --> 01:14:11.690 - And one of the statements you've made 01:14:11.690 --> 01:14:15.857 in your opening comments were our strategy rest upon 01:14:16.305 --> 01:14:20.038 "a heavy reliance on indigenous forces," correct? 01:14:20.038 --> 01:14:20.885 - That is correct, Senator. 01:14:20.885 --> 01:14:22.671 - And it's fair to say that the vast majority 01:14:22.671 --> 01:14:25.115 of those indigenous forces are Muslim. 01:14:25.115 --> 01:14:26.925 - That is the case today. 01:14:26.925 --> 01:14:29.914 - So it would be a mistake as a matter of national policy, 01:14:29.914 --> 01:14:34.081 rhetoric, or discussion if we attempted to alienate 01:14:35.024 --> 01:14:39.074 or marginalize Muslim citizens of anywhere in the world 01:14:39.074 --> 01:14:41.491 because these are our allies in all of the fights 01:14:41.491 --> 01:14:44.237 that we're engaged in in your areas, isn't that correct? 01:14:44.237 --> 01:14:47.519 - I believe it is, it is correct, Senator. 01:14:47.519 --> 01:14:50.323 - And you talked about restoring trust 01:14:50.323 --> 01:14:52.448 with our partners in the region, 01:14:52.448 --> 01:14:54.559 our partners in the region are all based 01:14:54.559 --> 01:14:58.059 upon Muslim societies, isn't that correct? 01:14:58.495 --> 01:14:59.581 - They largely are. 01:14:59.581 --> 01:15:01.914 It is largely a Muslim area. 01:15:04.741 --> 01:15:07.040 - Second area, and this has been discussed to some extent 01:15:07.040 --> 01:15:09.962 but again it's in your report on page three and five 01:15:09.962 --> 01:15:11.462 of your statement. 01:15:13.725 --> 01:15:15.957 The goals that you defined cannot be accomplished 01:15:15.957 --> 01:15:17.647 solely through military means. 01:15:17.647 --> 01:15:19.448 You say, "The military can help create 01:15:19.448 --> 01:15:20.809 "the necessary conditions. 01:15:20.809 --> 01:15:22.176 "There must be concomitant progress 01:15:22.176 --> 01:15:23.451 "in other complementary areas, 01:15:23.451 --> 01:15:25.616 "reconstruction, humanitarian aid, 01:15:25.616 --> 01:15:28.798 "stabilization, political reconciliation." 01:15:28.798 --> 01:15:31.465 On page five, you say, "However, 01:15:31.486 --> 01:15:34.764 "solely military response is not sufficient. 01:15:34.764 --> 01:15:37.802 "This must be accomplished to a combination of capabilities 01:15:37.802 --> 01:15:40.072 "if we're going to achieve and sustain 01:15:40.072 --> 01:15:42.989 "our strongest deterrence posture." 01:15:44.389 --> 01:15:46.223 Again, just to put a fine point 01:15:46.223 --> 01:15:48.210 on what has been discussed previously, 01:15:48.210 --> 01:15:51.127 to solely rely on military strength 01:15:51.172 --> 01:15:54.763 in solving these very complex and difficult problems 01:15:54.763 --> 01:15:57.910 would be a serious mistake, would you agree? 01:15:57.910 --> 01:15:59.993 - I would agree, Senator. 01:16:00.056 --> 01:16:01.439 I think we have to have a combination 01:16:01.439 --> 01:16:05.304 of all of our elements of power, hard power and soft power. 01:16:05.304 --> 01:16:06.304 - Thank you. 01:16:08.111 --> 01:16:12.278 Next question, this is slightly a different subject, 01:16:12.839 --> 01:16:14.610 and you work with a lot of these allies, 01:16:14.610 --> 01:16:17.729 you work with these countries, with Iraq 01:16:17.729 --> 01:16:20.562 and other countries in the region, 01:16:20.616 --> 01:16:22.530 how would it be received in the Arab world 01:16:22.530 --> 01:16:25.031 if the United States relocates its embassy 01:16:25.031 --> 01:16:28.433 from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem without a settlement 01:16:28.433 --> 01:16:31.433 of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict? 01:16:31.789 --> 01:16:35.456 - I think that, from my personal discussions 01:16:35.601 --> 01:16:38.674 with some in the region, I think that it would create 01:16:38.674 --> 01:16:42.290 some challenges for some of those countries. 01:16:42.290 --> 01:16:44.455 - Some challenges, can you expand? 01:16:44.455 --> 01:16:45.709 Serious challenges. 01:16:45.709 --> 01:16:49.434 - Yeah, it could potentially be very serious. 01:16:49.434 --> 01:16:52.706 - And does that include our staunch ally Jordan? 01:16:52.706 --> 01:16:53.909 - I believe, yes, sir. 01:16:53.909 --> 01:16:55.015 It does, Senator. 01:16:55.015 --> 01:16:56.015 - Thank you. 01:16:57.867 --> 01:17:00.367 Final question to both of you. 01:17:01.548 --> 01:17:03.496 Foreign military sales and foreign military 01:17:03.496 --> 01:17:06.393 financing programs, are they appropriately calibrated 01:17:06.393 --> 01:17:07.918 to meet your needs in the region? 01:17:07.918 --> 01:17:09.653 My sense is that that is an area 01:17:09.653 --> 01:17:12.070 where we could use some work. 01:17:13.950 --> 01:17:16.030 - From my perspective, Senator, 01:17:16.030 --> 01:17:18.150 the importance of the foreign military sales 01:17:18.150 --> 01:17:19.899 and foreign military funding programs 01:17:19.899 --> 01:17:22.065 is to help build capability for our partners, 01:17:22.065 --> 01:17:24.125 it's interoperable with us. 01:17:24.125 --> 01:17:26.635 They generally want to buy US equipment 01:17:26.635 --> 01:17:28.230 'cause it comes along with training, 01:17:28.230 --> 01:17:29.812 it comes along with sustainment 01:17:29.812 --> 01:17:32.431 and it makes them more interoperable with them. 01:17:32.431 --> 01:17:36.196 I think we have to take a long term view in terms of this, 01:17:36.196 --> 01:17:39.034 and I think it is in our interest for our partners 01:17:39.034 --> 01:17:41.784 in the region to use capabilities 01:17:43.204 --> 01:17:45.287 that are interoperable with ours. 01:17:45.287 --> 01:17:48.102 - General Waldhauser, there's a few seconds I have left, 01:17:48.102 --> 01:17:51.510 a quick update on the status of ISIS in Libya. 01:17:51.510 --> 01:17:54.392 - Status in ISIS in Libya is right now are regrouping. 01:17:54.392 --> 01:17:56.224 They're in small numbers, small groups. 01:17:56.224 --> 01:17:57.945 We try to develop the intelligence, 01:17:57.945 --> 01:18:00.808 but after they left Sirte we developed an intelligence, 01:18:00.808 --> 01:18:03.191 we bombed them on January 18th 01:18:03.191 --> 01:18:05.601 and they were in the southern part of Libya. 01:18:05.601 --> 01:18:07.577 They've scattered again now in small groups 01:18:07.577 --> 01:18:08.950 trying to regroup. 01:18:08.950 --> 01:18:10.506 - No longer control Sirte? 01:18:10.506 --> 01:18:12.471 - Correct, no longer control Sirte. 01:18:12.471 --> 01:18:13.548 They were out of Sirte in the middle of December. 01:18:13.548 --> 01:18:14.381 - Thank you. 01:18:14.381 --> 01:18:16.022 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 01:18:16.022 --> 01:18:17.466 - By the way, General Votel, 01:18:17.466 --> 01:18:19.769 just to complicate things further. 01:18:19.769 --> 01:18:21.861 Barzani, the leader of the Iraqi Kurds, 01:18:21.861 --> 01:18:25.944 does not support the KRG, the Syrian Kurds right? 01:18:26.812 --> 01:18:29.185 - [Votel] That is correct, Chairman. 01:18:29.185 --> 01:18:30.518 - Senator Ernst. 01:18:30.699 --> 01:18:31.714 - Thank you, Mr. Chair. 01:18:31.714 --> 01:18:33.372 And thank you gentlemen for being here today 01:18:33.372 --> 01:18:36.964 and your time and attention to all the questions. 01:18:36.964 --> 01:18:39.612 General Votel, we had an interesting conversation 01:18:39.612 --> 01:18:40.445 the other day. 01:18:40.445 --> 01:18:42.066 And as the chair of the Emerging Threats 01:18:42.066 --> 01:18:43.814 and Capabilities subcommittee, 01:18:43.814 --> 01:18:46.231 you mentioned something to me 01:18:46.292 --> 01:18:48.059 that I thought was very interesting 01:18:48.059 --> 01:18:50.450 and something that I am concerned about 01:18:50.450 --> 01:18:51.840 and that's the increasing threat 01:18:51.840 --> 01:18:55.590 that's posed by ISIS's ability to use drones. 01:18:56.601 --> 01:18:59.692 We had a great conversation about that. 01:18:59.692 --> 01:19:01.413 And what they're using, you say, was kind of 01:19:01.413 --> 01:19:04.996 a modified commercial, off the shelf drone. 01:19:05.157 --> 01:19:07.576 And can you tell us about that emerging threat, 01:19:07.576 --> 01:19:10.376 and maybe describe for those on the committee 01:19:10.376 --> 01:19:14.478 exactly what they're using and what those capabilities are. 01:19:14.478 --> 01:19:15.844 - Thank you, Senator. 01:19:15.844 --> 01:19:19.185 What we're seeing, I think, are commercially acquired drones 01:19:19.185 --> 01:19:21.868 that are generally quadcopters that are available, 01:19:21.868 --> 01:19:25.327 I think, very, very usually by anybody online 01:19:25.327 --> 01:19:28.577 or at other places, hobbyist locations. 01:19:30.476 --> 01:19:33.158 And what they're able to do is obviously operate them 01:19:33.158 --> 01:19:35.498 for purposes of their own surveillance. 01:19:35.498 --> 01:19:38.665 And as we've seen in the news there's, 01:19:38.917 --> 01:19:42.494 in some cases they've been able to rig grenades 01:19:42.494 --> 01:19:43.602 and other things to them. 01:19:43.602 --> 01:19:46.388 And so they have been able to achieve 01:19:46.388 --> 01:19:48.305 some effects with that. 01:19:48.673 --> 01:19:50.371 So it's concerning to our partners, 01:19:50.371 --> 01:19:51.829 it's certainly concerning to us 01:19:51.829 --> 01:19:55.579 and I think it's a reminder of just how savvy 01:19:56.067 --> 01:19:59.229 and challenging of an enemy that we are dealing with here 01:19:59.229 --> 01:20:02.155 and I think it requires us to make sure 01:20:02.155 --> 01:20:05.455 that we are equally savvy in our approach to this 01:20:05.455 --> 01:20:07.961 and making sure we have the right tools 01:20:07.961 --> 01:20:11.297 to defend against these types of threats. 01:20:11.297 --> 01:20:12.373 - Absolutely, thank you. 01:20:12.373 --> 01:20:15.222 It reminds me of the early part of the Iraq war 01:20:15.222 --> 01:20:19.389 when the forces they were using, remote controlled cars 01:20:20.809 --> 01:20:24.059 with explosives as a first form of IEDs 01:20:24.333 --> 01:20:26.820 and, of course, through the years they grew 01:20:26.820 --> 01:20:28.509 technologically advanced. 01:20:28.509 --> 01:20:31.059 And so I see something so simple as this 01:20:31.059 --> 01:20:33.961 that could become much more complicated over time. 01:20:33.961 --> 01:20:36.285 Did the Iraqi forces have the capabilities 01:20:36.285 --> 01:20:38.202 to defeat those drones? 01:20:38.318 --> 01:20:40.740 - We are working on providing them the capabilities. 01:20:40.740 --> 01:20:44.773 Right now, they enjoy protection against these threats 01:20:44.773 --> 01:20:47.062 in a number of areas largely because 01:20:47.062 --> 01:20:47.895 we have the capabilities 01:20:47.895 --> 01:20:50.529 with our forces that are accompanying them 01:20:50.529 --> 01:20:53.283 and are located in their locations. 01:20:53.283 --> 01:20:54.453 - Very good, thank you. 01:20:54.453 --> 01:20:57.446 And we also spoke about troop numbers yesterday 01:20:57.446 --> 01:21:00.815 and how random some of those numbers tend to be 01:21:00.815 --> 01:21:03.982 when you have that artificial boundary 01:21:04.179 --> 01:21:07.596 of a country line between Iraq and Syria. 01:21:08.476 --> 01:21:12.476 And if you could please share with the committee 01:21:13.214 --> 01:21:15.297 what is our role in that. 01:21:15.536 --> 01:21:17.825 Should that role be of troop numbers 01:21:17.825 --> 01:21:19.397 and where those troops are located, 01:21:19.397 --> 01:21:22.472 be it left up to our on the ground combatant commanders? 01:21:22.472 --> 01:21:25.111 If you could just share a little bit of that conversation. 01:21:25.111 --> 01:21:28.403 - Senator, I think the more we can provide agility 01:21:28.403 --> 01:21:30.469 for our commanders on the ground to make decisions 01:21:30.469 --> 01:21:32.538 about where they need forces and when they need it 01:21:32.538 --> 01:21:36.705 I think that's the most appropriate thing that can be done. 01:21:37.451 --> 01:21:41.210 I think we are most successful when we enable our very good 01:21:41.210 --> 01:21:44.116 and well-qualified leaders and people on the ground 01:21:44.116 --> 01:21:47.343 to make decisions in the situations in which they see it. 01:21:47.343 --> 01:21:50.929 So I am for making sure that we try to provide them 01:21:50.929 --> 01:21:53.935 the agility and the process around that. 01:21:53.935 --> 01:21:55.650 We certainly understand why it's important 01:21:55.650 --> 01:21:58.689 to look at things like numbers and stuff like that. 01:21:58.689 --> 01:22:00.917 It certainly drives our resources and budgeting 01:22:00.917 --> 01:22:02.527 and other aspects of that so that certainly 01:22:02.527 --> 01:22:04.515 has to be taken into consideration. 01:22:04.515 --> 01:22:07.457 But I'd look at this more from a flexibility 01:22:07.457 --> 01:22:11.443 and agility standpoint for our commanders on the ground. 01:22:11.443 --> 01:22:12.462 - Thank you very much. 01:22:12.462 --> 01:22:15.558 And, General Waldhauser, thank you as well. 01:22:15.558 --> 01:22:18.224 As you know, Tunisian has sent more foreign fighters 01:22:18.224 --> 01:22:22.391 than any other country to join the ranks of ISIS abroad. 01:22:22.418 --> 01:22:24.913 And in addition to supplying the foreign fighters, 01:22:24.913 --> 01:22:27.479 Tunisia struggles with containing 01:22:27.479 --> 01:22:29.568 the terrorist activity on their own soil 01:22:29.568 --> 01:22:33.735 and so much that they've had a physical wall built 01:22:34.697 --> 01:22:37.740 along the border with Libya in attempt to deter 01:22:37.740 --> 01:22:40.463 terrorists from entering their country. 01:22:40.463 --> 01:22:43.140 Is AFRICOM currently equipped to address 01:22:43.140 --> 01:22:45.728 the potential influx of ISIS fighters 01:22:45.728 --> 01:22:49.177 returning home to Tunisia as we strike them elsewhere 01:22:49.177 --> 01:22:51.769 whether it's in the Middle East or other places? 01:22:51.769 --> 01:22:53.874 - Senator, I'd have to characterize, 01:22:53.874 --> 01:22:56.499 Tunisia's one of the bright spots on the continent. 01:22:56.499 --> 01:22:58.669 They are in the process of transforming their military 01:22:58.669 --> 01:23:01.973 to be more capable of dealing with terrorist threats. 01:23:01.973 --> 01:23:03.898 They have purchased equipment from the United States 01:23:03.898 --> 01:23:05.540 which we are helping them with right now, 01:23:05.540 --> 01:23:08.008 helicopters and the like, we have people on the ground 01:23:08.008 --> 01:23:09.814 who are training, advising and assisting 01:23:09.814 --> 01:23:11.794 their special operation forces. 01:23:11.794 --> 01:23:13.374 And I believe the wall that you refer to 01:23:13.374 --> 01:23:16.957 is a technical equipment provided by DETRA, 01:23:18.626 --> 01:23:20.849 as well as Germany to help them contain 01:23:20.849 --> 01:23:23.755 the foreign fighter flow back and forth between, 01:23:23.755 --> 01:23:25.453 especially Libya and Tunisia. 01:23:25.453 --> 01:23:27.895 But the bottom line is they're a bright spot. 01:23:27.895 --> 01:23:29.900 I've visited them twice and they're in the right, 01:23:29.900 --> 01:23:31.505 they're headed in the right direction. 01:23:31.505 --> 01:23:33.249 They are struggling with what to do 01:23:33.249 --> 01:23:35.499 with foreign fighters who return, 01:23:35.499 --> 01:23:39.666 but again I think that's not a negative against them. 01:23:39.684 --> 01:23:40.517 - Very good. 01:23:40.517 --> 01:23:41.350 Well, I appreciate it. 01:23:41.350 --> 01:23:43.440 Gentlemen, thank you very much for your input. 01:23:43.440 --> 01:23:44.273 - Thank you. 01:23:44.273 --> 01:23:45.243 On behalf of Chairman McCain, 01:23:45.243 --> 01:23:48.243 let me recognize Senator Blumenthal. 01:23:51.712 --> 01:23:53.879 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 01:23:54.254 --> 01:23:56.273 I wanna thank both of you for your service, 01:23:56.273 --> 01:24:00.273 and as you did in your testimony, General Votel, 01:24:03.216 --> 01:24:06.745 the outstanding men and women under both your commands 01:24:06.745 --> 01:24:10.616 who make us proud and who are doing such great work 01:24:10.616 --> 01:24:12.199 under your command. 01:24:12.715 --> 01:24:16.790 I wanna join Senator King in thanking you for your testimony 01:24:16.790 --> 01:24:20.373 which is a very, very enlightening, for me, 01:24:23.151 --> 01:24:26.050 elucidating outline of the challenges. 01:24:26.050 --> 01:24:28.025 And I would note for my colleagues, 01:24:28.025 --> 01:24:29.893 particularly in your description 01:24:29.893 --> 01:24:33.226 of the next generation of cyber-warriors 01:24:34.163 --> 01:24:37.996 or the use of cyber warfare by our adversaries 01:24:38.414 --> 01:24:41.831 going from the rather rudimentary weapons 01:24:44.302 --> 01:24:48.469 of the roadside bombs to the much more sophisticated use 01:24:49.530 --> 01:24:53.677 of cyber and, as my colleague has pointed out, drones 01:24:53.677 --> 01:24:56.366 and other challenges that face us there. 01:24:56.366 --> 01:24:58.199 I wanna focus on Iran. 01:24:59.338 --> 01:25:02.755 In response to Senator Fischer's question 01:25:03.038 --> 01:25:05.705 about whether Iranian aggression 01:25:05.910 --> 01:25:09.157 has increased since the nuclear treaty, 01:25:09.157 --> 01:25:12.310 you pointed out that their conduct there 01:25:12.310 --> 01:25:14.227 has been destabilizing. 01:25:15.177 --> 01:25:19.260 The word you used was destabilizing and abnormal. 01:25:20.816 --> 01:25:24.066 And, of course, we know Iran has tested 01:25:25.298 --> 01:25:28.381 an anti-ship ballistic missile there, 01:25:29.743 --> 01:25:33.910 a new Russian-made S300 missile air defense system, 01:25:35.187 --> 01:25:39.354 as well as harassing a navy ship, the USS Invincible 01:25:40.976 --> 01:25:44.158 in the Strait of Hormuz, by sending an Iranian frigate 01:25:44.158 --> 01:25:48.325 within, I think, 150 yards, smaller boats within 600 yards. 01:25:49.998 --> 01:25:51.288 Last month the Iranians fired 01:25:51.288 --> 01:25:53.687 a medium-ranged ballistic missile 01:25:53.687 --> 01:25:57.854 in violation of the US Security Council resolution 01:25:58.023 --> 01:26:00.291 resulting in United States sanctions, 01:26:00.291 --> 01:26:04.197 enforcement against 25 individuals and entities. 01:26:04.197 --> 01:26:06.514 That axiom was in violation of the UN resolution, 01:26:06.514 --> 01:26:09.083 but none of the other activities are in violation 01:26:09.083 --> 01:26:12.000 of the nuclear agreement, are they? 01:26:15.171 --> 01:26:16.989 - My understanding, Senator, is the nuclear agreement 01:26:16.989 --> 01:26:19.513 did not address any of those other aspects 01:26:19.513 --> 01:26:21.132 of the Iranian threat. 01:26:21.132 --> 01:26:23.593 - But would you agree with me that they do demand 01:26:23.593 --> 01:26:25.208 a response from the United States? 01:26:25.208 --> 01:26:27.059 - I would absolutely agree, Senator. 01:26:27.059 --> 01:26:30.976 - And much more aggressive, not only sanctions, 01:26:31.628 --> 01:26:35.545 but warnings and actions against their partners 01:26:36.516 --> 01:26:40.349 in this effort, most prominently the Russians. 01:26:40.421 --> 01:26:41.648 - I would agree. 01:26:41.648 --> 01:26:45.331 I think we should use a combination of both diplomatic 01:26:45.331 --> 01:26:48.057 and other security related tools here, 01:26:48.057 --> 01:26:51.165 economic tools to address this concern. 01:26:51.165 --> 01:26:54.526 - Would you agree with me that the Russians, 01:26:54.526 --> 01:26:58.693 through the Iranians in effect, are testing us in that area 01:26:59.035 --> 01:27:02.039 because they are in effect aiding and abetting 01:27:02.039 --> 01:27:06.206 the Iranians in this increasing destabilizing activity. 01:27:08.706 --> 01:27:10.789 - Well, I would, Senator, 01:27:11.802 --> 01:27:15.885 and I would certainly point to a place like Syria 01:27:17.603 --> 01:27:20.616 where these two countries have essentially propped up 01:27:20.616 --> 01:27:24.783 a regime here and made them more capable, more powerful 01:27:25.711 --> 01:27:28.794 and it kept them from collapsing, so. 01:27:29.056 --> 01:27:31.740 - But when we complain about the Iranians 01:27:31.740 --> 01:27:35.637 and all of us probably in this room would agree with you 01:27:35.637 --> 01:27:39.048 that they are the major destabilizing influence 01:27:39.048 --> 01:27:40.131 in that area, 01:27:40.341 --> 01:27:41.668 we're talking as much about the Russians 01:27:41.668 --> 01:27:44.085 as we are about the Iranians. 01:27:44.940 --> 01:27:47.887 - Senator, in my comments here I was specifically talking 01:27:47.887 --> 01:27:50.777 about the Iranian threat, that is the one 01:27:50.777 --> 01:27:52.610 that we confront with. 01:27:52.610 --> 01:27:55.287 Certainly, as I mentioned also in my opening statement here, 01:27:55.287 --> 01:27:56.831 we are concerned about external actors 01:27:56.831 --> 01:28:00.941 and what their interests are in the region as well, 01:28:00.941 --> 01:28:02.656 and those can contribute to more 01:28:02.656 --> 01:28:04.730 destabilizing aspects as well. 01:28:04.730 --> 01:28:07.813 So I think they have to be addressed, 01:28:08.551 --> 01:28:10.589 they both have to be addressed. 01:28:10.589 --> 01:28:14.607 - And how would you suggest that we should address 01:28:14.607 --> 01:28:18.774 the Iranian destabilizing influence of this regime? 01:28:19.590 --> 01:28:21.444 - I think there are a variety of things. 01:28:21.444 --> 01:28:22.480 I think the most important thing 01:28:22.480 --> 01:28:25.489 is to work with our regional partners here 01:28:25.489 --> 01:28:28.273 to ensure that we have a common approach to this. 01:28:28.273 --> 01:28:31.940 I think in some cases we should look at ways 01:28:32.687 --> 01:28:35.687 that we can disrupt their activities 01:28:35.849 --> 01:28:38.895 through a variety of means, not just military means; 01:28:38.895 --> 01:28:41.692 we have to expose them for the things they're doing, 01:28:41.692 --> 01:28:44.479 they should be held accountable for those things; 01:28:44.479 --> 01:28:48.571 and I think we have to contest their revolutionary ideology, 01:28:48.571 --> 01:28:49.962 and it's not just the United States 01:28:49.962 --> 01:28:52.504 but it has to be those in the region. 01:28:52.504 --> 01:28:54.103 Iran has a role in the region. 01:28:54.103 --> 01:28:56.152 They have been around for a long period of time, 01:28:56.152 --> 01:28:58.550 nobody is trying to make Iran go away, 01:28:58.550 --> 01:29:02.559 but we are concerned about the destabilizing behavior 01:29:02.559 --> 01:29:05.481 that they pursue on a regular basis. 01:29:05.481 --> 01:29:07.884 - My time is expired, but this topic is one 01:29:07.884 --> 01:29:10.825 that I think is profoundly important 01:29:10.825 --> 01:29:12.923 and I will have some more questions 01:29:12.923 --> 01:29:15.046 that I hope you and your staff perhaps can answer 01:29:15.046 --> 01:29:18.463 and maybe in a different setting as well. 01:29:18.989 --> 01:29:20.447 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 01:29:20.447 --> 01:29:21.280 - Thank you. 01:29:21.280 --> 01:29:22.114 On behalf of Chairman McCain, 01:29:22.114 --> 01:29:24.781 let me recognize Senator Perdue. 01:29:25.874 --> 01:29:26.934 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 01:29:26.934 --> 01:29:28.713 It's an honor to be here before you two gentlemen. 01:29:28.713 --> 01:29:31.340 Thank you for your great careers 01:29:31.340 --> 01:29:32.784 and what you're doing for our country today, 01:29:32.784 --> 01:29:34.905 and I hope you'll take this message back to your troops 01:29:34.905 --> 01:29:38.123 that everything they do over there is not missed on us. 01:29:38.123 --> 01:29:41.948 I have a question about ISIS I'd like to talk about, 01:29:41.948 --> 01:29:42.781 General Votel. 01:29:42.781 --> 01:29:44.487 First of all, I think one of the first things 01:29:44.487 --> 01:29:48.654 that the president has done is ask for a 30-day review 01:29:48.782 --> 01:29:51.641 of the current strategy and so forth. 01:29:51.641 --> 01:29:54.919 Where are we in that process and what types of things 01:29:54.919 --> 01:29:59.086 can we expect to see in terms of our strategy there? 01:29:59.317 --> 01:30:02.493 And I'd like you also to address what is our endgame? 01:30:02.493 --> 01:30:03.859 And can you talk about that today 01:30:03.859 --> 01:30:07.120 or should we wait until we see the 30-day review? 01:30:07.120 --> 01:30:09.903 - Senator, I think it's most appropriate for the secretary, 01:30:09.903 --> 01:30:12.726 who I believe has presented his findings 01:30:12.726 --> 01:30:15.557 to the new administration, and I think he's probably 01:30:15.557 --> 01:30:17.314 the person who is most appropriate 01:30:17.314 --> 01:30:20.814 to talk about the decisions and end states 01:30:21.130 --> 01:30:22.455 that will come out of that. 01:30:22.455 --> 01:30:24.122 - Okay, fair enough. 01:30:24.233 --> 01:30:27.939 With regard to ISIS in the Sinai, right now Egypt 01:30:27.939 --> 01:30:31.189 there are daily efforts there, I think. 01:30:32.087 --> 01:30:34.114 Can you give us an update on what ties being done 01:30:34.114 --> 01:30:37.538 and what other countries are involved in the fight with ISIS 01:30:37.538 --> 01:30:39.368 and give us an order of magnitude 01:30:39.368 --> 01:30:42.701 of the size of that action in the Sinai. 01:30:43.250 --> 01:30:45.750 - The Egyptians have deployed, 01:30:46.370 --> 01:30:49.705 several months ago have deployed forces into the Sinai 01:30:49.705 --> 01:30:52.372 and specifically around the area 01:30:53.329 --> 01:30:55.292 where the multinational force is. 01:30:55.292 --> 01:30:57.256 That has been helpful, that has helped address 01:30:57.256 --> 01:30:59.720 a threat that was emerging there. 01:30:59.720 --> 01:31:02.970 And they are engaged on a regular basis 01:31:03.156 --> 01:31:06.573 in fighting ISIS in that particular area. 01:31:08.221 --> 01:31:10.304 Egypt is addressing this. 01:31:12.301 --> 01:31:14.299 We are helping them in some areas, 01:31:14.299 --> 01:31:17.430 particularly with some of our expertise 01:31:17.430 --> 01:31:20.097 in improvised explosive devices. 01:31:20.728 --> 01:31:23.030 They have asked for that and so we've been key 01:31:23.030 --> 01:31:26.796 to help them with that in this particular area. 01:31:26.796 --> 01:31:30.963 - Did we have any troops on the ground in ISIS, or in Sinai? 01:31:31.100 --> 01:31:33.456 - We do not have any troops on the ground 01:31:33.456 --> 01:31:34.497 that are fighting ISIS. 01:31:34.497 --> 01:31:37.025 We do have troops on the ground in Sinai 01:31:37.025 --> 01:31:39.954 that are associated with the multinational force mission. 01:31:39.954 --> 01:31:40.954 - Thank you. 01:31:42.758 --> 01:31:44.927 General Waldhauser, I wanna go back to a question 01:31:44.927 --> 01:31:47.927 that was earlier asked of you about, 01:31:48.714 --> 01:31:50.881 China's presence in Africa 01:31:51.516 --> 01:31:53.270 and particularly the base at Djibouti. 01:31:53.270 --> 01:31:55.364 Given what Russia's done with Crimea 01:31:55.364 --> 01:31:58.079 and now at Latakia and at Tartus, 01:31:58.079 --> 01:32:00.993 are you concerned that we'll see other activity 01:32:00.993 --> 01:32:03.884 of base building in Africa that have you heard, 01:32:03.884 --> 01:32:07.585 are any other indications of either Russia or China 01:32:07.585 --> 01:32:11.752 developing permanent positions or presence in that theater? 01:32:12.585 --> 01:32:15.915 - Senator, in 2013 the Chinese laid out a strategic plan 01:32:15.915 --> 01:32:18.775 of one belt one road where they'll have commerce 01:32:18.775 --> 01:32:22.525 that starts in China, goes down to Indonesia, 01:32:22.843 --> 01:32:25.853 Strait of Malacca across over to Djibouti 01:32:25.853 --> 01:32:27.853 up into Europe and back. 01:32:27.975 --> 01:32:31.854 And that's roughly 60 countries and 40% of the global GDP 01:32:31.854 --> 01:32:33.240 that goes on in that area. 01:32:33.240 --> 01:32:34.990 It's all about trade. 01:32:35.066 --> 01:32:37.775 This is their first endeavor in overseas base 01:32:37.775 --> 01:32:39.176 and it won't be their last. 01:32:39.176 --> 01:32:40.593 - Thank you, sir. 01:32:40.756 --> 01:32:42.191 I wanna ask one more question real quick, 01:32:42.191 --> 01:32:43.149 I'm about out of time. 01:32:43.149 --> 01:32:47.232 But in Somalia and Sudan there's a growing threat 01:32:48.075 --> 01:32:51.299 that there's a real serious famine that's about to happen, 01:32:51.299 --> 01:32:52.583 if it hadn't already started there. 01:32:52.583 --> 01:32:56.750 What will that do to the military situation in that area? 01:32:57.089 --> 01:32:59.041 - Well, first of all in Somalia, Senator, 01:32:59.041 --> 01:33:00.994 this right now is the most pressing issue 01:33:00.994 --> 01:33:02.136 to the brand new president 01:33:02.136 --> 01:33:04.203 who was just elected just last month. 01:33:04.203 --> 01:33:06.468 Right now there's over 6.2 million individuals 01:33:06.468 --> 01:33:08.662 who have been affected by it and it hasn't been, 01:33:08.662 --> 01:33:11.272 to my knowledge, actually declared a famine yet. 01:33:11.272 --> 01:33:14.534 But in terms of combating Al-Shabaab and the like, 01:33:14.534 --> 01:33:17.793 movement of people in those large masses 01:33:17.793 --> 01:33:20.282 has an impact on military operations. 01:33:20.282 --> 01:33:23.448 But the bottom line in Somalia is right now 01:33:23.448 --> 01:33:24.798 we have counter-terrorism operations, 01:33:24.798 --> 01:33:27.679 we're trying to build up the national security forces, 01:33:27.679 --> 01:33:30.549 but that famine for the brand new president 01:33:30.549 --> 01:33:33.141 and this fledgling national government 01:33:33.141 --> 01:33:34.474 is the biggest thing on their plate. 01:33:34.474 --> 01:33:36.745 They have to do well in this 'cause if they can't provide 01:33:36.745 --> 01:33:39.397 for this famine then Somalia, who has been without 01:33:39.397 --> 01:33:41.326 a national government for over 20 years, 01:33:41.326 --> 01:33:42.630 is gonna question what the purpose 01:33:42.630 --> 01:33:45.110 and what contributions they will make. 01:33:45.110 --> 01:33:46.150 - Thank you, sir. 01:33:46.150 --> 01:33:47.580 One last real quick question. 01:33:47.580 --> 01:33:50.200 In Moron, Spain I was forced enough to meet 01:33:50.200 --> 01:33:52.873 and visit with some of your great marines there. 01:33:52.873 --> 01:33:55.622 They got a very (mumbles) mission. 01:33:55.622 --> 01:33:58.391 Unfortunately, late last year they had to move 01:33:58.391 --> 01:34:02.495 about half of their air assets back to the US for training. 01:34:02.495 --> 01:34:03.641 Can you talk about readiness 01:34:03.641 --> 01:34:05.968 with regard to their mission in Africa? 01:34:05.968 --> 01:34:09.074 - Senator, the impact right now is really capacity for us. 01:34:09.074 --> 01:34:11.727 So we've had to kinda center their activity 01:34:11.727 --> 01:34:13.701 mostly on Western Africa. 01:34:13.701 --> 01:34:16.097 And so some of the missions we have in Eastern Africa 01:34:16.097 --> 01:34:18.987 that they would be able to deploy to in the past 01:34:18.987 --> 01:34:20.537 would have to coordinate with CENTCOM, 01:34:20.537 --> 01:34:23.713 and we've actually used marines from the (mumbles) 01:34:23.713 --> 01:34:26.106 in CENTCOM on the ground in Djibouti 01:34:26.106 --> 01:34:28.625 to take care of crisis response and activities 01:34:28.625 --> 01:34:32.426 specifically South Sudan that we had at that time. 01:34:32.426 --> 01:34:35.241 So the readiness of the airplanes has gotten better, 01:34:35.241 --> 01:34:38.592 but when you go from 12 to six, the capacity is cut in half 01:34:38.592 --> 01:34:40.503 and the impact is we've gotta do a better job 01:34:40.503 --> 01:34:42.664 coordinating and sharing assets 01:34:42.664 --> 01:34:45.113 because the Africa continent is extremely large. 01:34:45.113 --> 01:34:45.946 - Yes, sir 01:34:45.946 --> 01:34:48.113 Thank you, thank you both. 01:34:49.775 --> 01:34:51.048 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 01:34:51.048 --> 01:34:52.544 Thank you both for your service. 01:34:52.544 --> 01:34:55.711 We are so grateful for your hard work. 01:34:56.277 --> 01:34:59.777 General Votel, as we move forward in Mosul 01:35:00.935 --> 01:35:04.185 and some of the ISIS fighters head out, 01:35:06.862 --> 01:35:09.525 what efforts do we have in place 01:35:09.525 --> 01:35:11.494 to try to capture them before they head to Iraq 01:35:11.494 --> 01:35:15.661 or to other areas, or where are they heading out to? 01:35:16.678 --> 01:35:18.635 - Well, Senator, thank you for the question. 01:35:18.635 --> 01:35:20.671 Our intention, of course, is to prevent them 01:35:20.671 --> 01:35:22.253 from getting out and so the first part 01:35:22.253 --> 01:35:25.993 of all of our operations is to isolate the areas 01:35:25.993 --> 01:35:29.783 where attacks are taking place by our partners 01:35:29.783 --> 01:35:31.639 where we're bringing in our enabling capabilities 01:35:31.639 --> 01:35:35.556 so that we don't let anybody get out or get in. 01:35:35.663 --> 01:35:38.618 Being a desert, this is obviously very poor areas 01:35:38.618 --> 01:35:40.867 so there probably are some that get out. 01:35:40.867 --> 01:35:42.525 I think they are generally moving into 01:35:42.525 --> 01:35:45.358 the Middle Euphrates river valley, 01:35:45.381 --> 01:35:48.631 which is a location that is, excuse me, 01:35:49.210 --> 01:35:52.210 equidistant between Mosul and Raqqa. 01:35:54.665 --> 01:35:58.673 - A while ago we were in, we were just outside Haditha 01:35:58.673 --> 01:36:02.840 in Anbar province meeting with the Iraqi leaders there 01:36:04.044 --> 01:36:06.005 and I just wanted to follow-up to, 01:36:06.005 --> 01:36:09.422 at the time they were close to starvation 01:36:09.548 --> 01:36:11.063 for a lot of their citizens. 01:36:11.063 --> 01:36:15.230 It was extremely difficult for all of their families. 01:36:16.138 --> 01:36:18.514 Where are we now in terms of solidifying 01:36:18.514 --> 01:36:21.681 Haditha, Fallujah, Ramadi those areas? 01:36:21.734 --> 01:36:24.067 And are they working with us 01:36:24.216 --> 01:36:26.478 and with the central government? 01:36:26.478 --> 01:36:28.769 - Senator, they are, and we are making progress 01:36:28.769 --> 01:36:31.629 with the humanitarian aid and the needs of the people 01:36:31.629 --> 01:36:33.649 out in all of those areas. 01:36:33.649 --> 01:36:36.383 And this, I think, is an area that we have 01:36:36.383 --> 01:36:39.232 to pay particular attention to as we move forward into, 01:36:39.232 --> 01:36:40.708 particularly in large (mumbles) areas 01:36:40.708 --> 01:36:43.363 is that our military operations have to have 01:36:43.363 --> 01:36:45.135 planning for those has to be done in conjunction 01:36:45.135 --> 01:36:47.236 with the humanitarian aid planning 01:36:47.236 --> 01:36:49.890 and providing for the needs of the people 01:36:49.890 --> 01:36:51.245 that will be left behind. 01:36:51.245 --> 01:36:54.038 So I think this is a key aspect for us. 01:36:54.038 --> 01:36:57.033 - As we head toward Raqqa, we've seen 01:36:57.033 --> 01:36:59.200 that marines have come in. 01:36:59.667 --> 01:37:01.299 Are you getting everything that you need 01:37:01.299 --> 01:37:05.284 in terms of equipment, manpower, all of those things 01:37:05.284 --> 01:37:06.867 to take Raqqa back? 01:37:08.421 --> 01:37:11.447 - We are, Senator, and I'm certainly in discussions 01:37:11.447 --> 01:37:14.962 with the secretary about what we might need going forward. 01:37:14.962 --> 01:37:18.962 - Because I think our feeling is we don't wanna, 01:37:19.710 --> 01:37:21.986 we don't wanna not get this done as soon as possible 01:37:21.986 --> 01:37:26.055 because we didn't provide you with the necessary equipment, 01:37:26.055 --> 01:37:27.722 necessary personnel. 01:37:28.147 --> 01:37:30.376 As we look at Raqqa and moving forward, 01:37:30.376 --> 01:37:31.789 obviously there's a lot of complication 01:37:31.789 --> 01:37:34.202 with the Turks and with others, 01:37:34.202 --> 01:37:37.045 how are all those pieces coming together for you? 01:37:37.045 --> 01:37:40.094 - Well as you know, Senator, this is an extraordinarily 01:37:40.094 --> 01:37:41.594 complex area here. 01:37:42.398 --> 01:37:45.342 And so we're trying to work with an indigenous force 01:37:45.342 --> 01:37:48.425 that has tensions with the NATO ally. 01:37:48.924 --> 01:37:53.060 And so that's not an easy situation to move through, 01:37:53.060 --> 01:37:55.533 but I think the way we are addressing it 01:37:55.533 --> 01:37:57.200 is in the right way. 01:37:57.736 --> 01:37:59.659 We are being as transparent as we can, 01:37:59.659 --> 01:38:02.960 we are providing information, we are looking for options 01:38:02.960 --> 01:38:06.053 on a day to day basis to ensure we can mitigate 01:38:06.053 --> 01:38:10.136 and minimize the tension that exist in this area. 01:38:10.470 --> 01:38:14.619 So I won't try to tell you that there's an easy way 01:38:14.619 --> 01:38:16.746 through all this complexity, there's not. 01:38:16.746 --> 01:38:18.079 It's gonna take a lot of hard work, 01:38:18.079 --> 01:38:19.295 it's gonna take military work, 01:38:19.295 --> 01:38:22.086 it's gonna take diplomatic work as we move forward 01:38:22.086 --> 01:38:25.580 and I do believe that is the approach that we're taking 01:38:25.580 --> 01:38:29.407 and I think that ultimately it will work for us. 01:38:29.407 --> 01:38:31.740 - I was going to follow-up, you were kind enough 01:38:31.740 --> 01:38:34.828 to come by my office to follow-up and say, 01:38:34.828 --> 01:38:37.127 "I think your idea of complete transparency, 01:38:37.127 --> 01:38:38.998 "here's what we're doing, here's what we're working on, 01:38:38.998 --> 01:38:40.331 "here's how we plan to do it," 01:38:40.331 --> 01:38:43.013 and to try to cooperate as much as we can 01:38:43.013 --> 01:38:44.620 with other countries, but to tell them, 01:38:44.620 --> 01:38:47.251 "This is the plan and this is where we're going," 01:38:47.251 --> 01:38:49.837 seems to make a lot of sense to me. 01:38:49.837 --> 01:38:53.461 As you look at what has gone on in the Arabian Gulf, 01:38:53.461 --> 01:38:56.238 we just saw another incident with our ships recently. 01:38:56.238 --> 01:39:00.405 And as we move forward the distances seem to be less, 01:39:03.842 --> 01:39:06.592 they get closer, they get closer. 01:39:06.691 --> 01:39:09.855 Do we have a plan ready to go where at some point we say, 01:39:09.855 --> 01:39:11.381 "You know, you've crossed the red line," 01:39:11.381 --> 01:39:15.548 and if they continue that we take appropriate action? 01:39:15.579 --> 01:39:19.144 - Senator, I am very confident in our ship captains 01:39:19.144 --> 01:39:22.294 and in our crews for them to deal with the situation. 01:39:22.294 --> 01:39:25.099 I do believe they have the right rules of engagement, 01:39:25.099 --> 01:39:27.785 they have the right tools to prevent things 01:39:27.785 --> 01:39:31.544 and in the case that they, prevention does not work 01:39:31.544 --> 01:39:34.953 or deterrence does not work then they have the capabilities 01:39:34.953 --> 01:39:37.302 to defend themselves and take action. 01:39:37.302 --> 01:39:39.985 So I am very confident in our people. 01:39:39.985 --> 01:39:43.420 - My guess is that there will become an X crosses Y point, 01:39:43.420 --> 01:39:45.563 and I just wanna make sure that our captains 01:39:45.563 --> 01:39:48.624 and all of them are ready and I have the same confidence. 01:39:48.624 --> 01:39:52.791 General Waldhauser, as you look at your area of command, 01:39:56.114 --> 01:39:58.613 what do you see is our biggest challenge right now 01:39:58.613 --> 01:40:00.780 that you are dealing with? 01:40:00.924 --> 01:40:02.948 - Senator, I think the biggest challenge perhaps 01:40:02.948 --> 01:40:06.436 is the development piece for the demographics 01:40:06.436 --> 01:40:08.303 of a very youthful population, 01:40:08.303 --> 01:40:11.483 41% of the continent is under the age of 15. 01:40:11.483 --> 01:40:15.066 We've gotta find a way to get at education, 01:40:15.213 --> 01:40:18.688 health care, hopelessness, livelihood and the like 01:40:18.688 --> 01:40:21.889 in order to give those individuals a future 01:40:21.889 --> 01:40:24.449 because we could take, we could knock off 01:40:24.449 --> 01:40:26.726 all the ISIL in Boko Haram this afternoon, 01:40:26.726 --> 01:40:28.955 by the end of the week so to speak, 01:40:28.955 --> 01:40:30.478 those ranks would be filled. 01:40:30.478 --> 01:40:33.963 We know from those who have kinda come out of the forest 01:40:33.963 --> 01:40:36.401 and given themselves up so to speak that the reason 01:40:36.401 --> 01:40:39.310 they joined was they needed a job, they needed a livelihood. 01:40:39.310 --> 01:40:42.051 It's not for the most part, in those regions, 01:40:42.051 --> 01:40:44.122 about ideology, that's not the driver. 01:40:44.122 --> 01:40:45.738 It's those factors I just talked about 01:40:45.738 --> 01:40:48.076 that drive them into that line of work 01:40:48.076 --> 01:40:50.014 because there's nothing else for them to do. 01:40:50.014 --> 01:40:52.701 So I think the youth (mumbles) and the demographics 01:40:52.701 --> 01:40:54.387 and providing the development in a way 01:40:54.387 --> 01:40:57.565 ahead for those youth are very, very important. 01:40:57.565 --> 01:40:59.046 - So we can't fight out way out, 01:40:59.046 --> 01:41:01.109 but what we have to do is try to give them hope 01:41:01.109 --> 01:41:03.197 and dignity and purpose, I guess. 01:41:03.197 --> 01:41:04.030 - Exactly. 01:41:04.030 --> 01:41:05.292 I mean I'm not the first, many people, 01:41:05.292 --> 01:41:06.943 especially those in uniform have said, 01:41:06.943 --> 01:41:09.270 "We can't kill our way to victory here." 01:41:09.270 --> 01:41:10.732 And this is about the long-term investment 01:41:10.732 --> 01:41:13.139 and capacity building because at the end of the day 01:41:13.139 --> 01:41:15.180 that's what's gonna try to help solve the problem 01:41:15.180 --> 01:41:17.359 especially on the African continent. 01:41:17.359 --> 01:41:18.192 - Thank you. 01:41:18.192 --> 01:41:19.025 Thank you both for your service. 01:41:19.025 --> 01:41:20.578 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 01:41:20.578 --> 01:41:21.895 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 01:41:21.895 --> 01:41:24.278 General Votel, thank you for spending the time with me 01:41:24.278 --> 01:41:26.195 in my office this week. 01:41:26.235 --> 01:41:29.121 And, General Waldhauser, welcome to the committee. 01:41:29.121 --> 01:41:31.092 Thank you both for your service. 01:41:31.092 --> 01:41:33.842 And I'll ask this of both of you. 01:41:33.916 --> 01:41:37.833 One area that I'd like to get your feedback on, 01:41:37.839 --> 01:41:41.531 as foreign military financing, foreign military sales, 01:41:41.531 --> 01:41:44.810 to what extent do we need to focus on that 01:41:44.810 --> 01:41:48.740 with some of our partner nations that you believe is helpful 01:41:48.740 --> 01:41:51.678 to you completing your missions in each of your commands? 01:41:51.678 --> 01:41:53.751 And, General Votel, we'll start with you. 01:41:53.751 --> 01:41:54.584 - Thank you, Senator. 01:41:54.584 --> 01:41:56.989 I think foreign military funding, foreign military sales 01:41:56.989 --> 01:41:58.801 are extraordinarily important-- 01:41:58.801 --> 01:42:00.807 - You get more into specifics about certain areas 01:42:00.807 --> 01:42:04.516 where we need to really look at on a more immediate basis. 01:42:04.516 --> 01:42:05.349 - I do. 01:42:05.349 --> 01:42:09.176 I think certainly looking at ballistic missile capabilities 01:42:09.176 --> 01:42:12.665 for some of our gulf partners is an important area. 01:42:12.665 --> 01:42:15.783 Certainly some of the aircraft programs out there, 01:42:15.783 --> 01:42:19.050 there's great desire to have US programs 01:42:19.050 --> 01:42:22.641 in many of these countries and there's certainly 01:42:22.641 --> 01:42:25.009 areas we have to pay strong-- 01:42:25.009 --> 01:42:26.610 - What sort of capabilities? 01:42:26.610 --> 01:42:29.378 In Egypt, Senator Perdue asked you questions 01:42:29.378 --> 01:42:33.545 about the Sinai and the increasing threat in that region 01:42:34.042 --> 01:42:38.209 because of the consolidation of ISIS and other entities. 01:42:39.927 --> 01:42:42.073 What kinds of things would be helpful, 01:42:42.073 --> 01:42:44.354 in particular to Egypt, in that area? 01:42:44.354 --> 01:42:46.521 - Well certainly the suite 01:42:47.057 --> 01:42:49.522 of counter improvised explosive device 01:42:49.522 --> 01:42:52.800 equipment we have out there running from jammers 01:42:52.800 --> 01:42:55.572 to protected vehicles and a variety of things in between 01:42:55.572 --> 01:42:57.931 I think would be extraordinarily helpful to them. 01:42:57.931 --> 01:43:01.055 - Do you have any specifics and, General Waldhauser, 01:43:01.055 --> 01:43:03.432 I wanna go to you with the same line of questioning, 01:43:03.432 --> 01:43:06.765 but any specific things that you should, 01:43:07.487 --> 01:43:09.811 that you can provide us, any specific areas 01:43:09.811 --> 01:43:11.887 where we need to take a look at 01:43:11.887 --> 01:43:15.156 and maybe get back to where we're helping 01:43:15.156 --> 01:43:16.703 build that partnership with Egypt-- 01:43:16.703 --> 01:43:19.286 - Senator, from a, yeah, we do. 01:43:19.642 --> 01:43:23.255 And with your permission, we'll look for an opportunity 01:43:23.255 --> 01:43:25.040 to come and talk with you specifically about that 01:43:25.040 --> 01:43:28.349 so we can get into some detail about what we think 01:43:28.349 --> 01:43:30.171 would be most useful for Egypt and in fact 01:43:30.171 --> 01:43:32.549 for other partners across the region. 01:43:32.549 --> 01:43:33.476 - Thank you. 01:43:33.476 --> 01:43:35.871 And, General Waldhauser, same line of question. 01:43:35.871 --> 01:43:36.704 - Thank you, Senator. 01:43:36.704 --> 01:43:39.376 Interestingly in Africa the foreign military sales 01:43:39.376 --> 01:43:41.793 is a very interesting choice. 01:43:42.351 --> 01:43:44.099 Many of the countries that we deal with 01:43:44.099 --> 01:43:46.663 are not financially well, in good shape, 01:43:46.663 --> 01:43:48.381 and consequently the ability to pay 01:43:48.381 --> 01:43:51.868 and the ability to fund for long-term parts, blocks 01:43:51.868 --> 01:43:54.469 behind that is a difficult task. 01:43:54.469 --> 01:43:56.735 So I'm not suggesting that we should alter the rules 01:43:56.735 --> 01:43:59.947 or change the rules, but I think we need to be flexible 01:43:59.947 --> 01:44:02.192 when we deal with some of these poor countries 01:44:02.192 --> 01:44:05.367 and make sure we understand absorptive capability 01:44:05.367 --> 01:44:06.701 so that what we're selling them 01:44:06.701 --> 01:44:09.339 they not only can use 'em in the first few years 01:44:09.339 --> 01:44:11.970 but they'll be a parts block behind that, if you will, 01:44:11.970 --> 01:44:14.728 there'll be an institution logistic infrastructure 01:44:14.728 --> 01:44:16.865 behind that that will allow them to keep 01:44:16.865 --> 01:44:19.537 these piece of equipment whether they'd be 01:44:19.537 --> 01:44:21.740 vehicles, or maybe C-130 airplanes, 01:44:21.740 --> 01:44:24.965 keep them in good shape for years to come. 01:44:24.965 --> 01:44:25.798 - Thank you. 01:44:25.798 --> 01:44:29.276 On another subject, and it relates to foreign military aid, 01:44:29.276 --> 01:44:31.361 we've, General Votel, when you were in my office 01:44:31.361 --> 01:44:33.165 we were talking about Afghanistan. 01:44:33.165 --> 01:44:36.025 And when I was there the year before last 01:44:36.025 --> 01:44:37.944 at the time there was a concern that there was gonna be 01:44:37.944 --> 01:44:40.972 a drop off in foreign investment and the tools 01:44:40.972 --> 01:44:44.680 that Afghanistan needed for its economic development, 01:44:44.680 --> 01:44:47.225 which is a key part of stabilizing the country. 01:44:47.225 --> 01:44:49.225 What's the current situation there? 01:44:49.225 --> 01:44:51.273 - I think the situation looks good, 01:44:51.273 --> 01:44:53.160 both from a NATO standpoint and from a much 01:44:53.160 --> 01:44:55.442 broader international standpoint. 01:44:55.442 --> 01:44:58.070 The donation conferences and other things 01:44:58.070 --> 01:45:00.175 that have been convened here over the last year-- 01:45:00.175 --> 01:45:03.344 - Are we building a reliable stream or is it just, 01:45:03.344 --> 01:45:04.582 is there another clip 01:45:04.582 --> 01:45:05.474 that we have to be concerned with-- 01:45:05.474 --> 01:45:06.738 - I think we are building a reliable stream 01:45:06.738 --> 01:45:10.905 out to the 20/20 timeframe and in some cases beyond that. 01:45:12.129 --> 01:45:15.296 So I think the international community 01:45:15.757 --> 01:45:19.010 has stepped up to the plate in this particular area. 01:45:19.010 --> 01:45:19.843 - Thank you. 01:45:19.843 --> 01:45:24.010 General Waldhauser, when General Votel and the people 01:45:24.354 --> 01:45:27.000 that we have assisting countries in CENTCOM 01:45:27.000 --> 01:45:28.916 are successful in Mosul and Raqqa 01:45:28.916 --> 01:45:30.611 it seems to me that that could, 01:45:30.611 --> 01:45:32.318 the good news is maybe we're getting 01:45:32.318 --> 01:45:34.651 some level of success there. 01:45:34.702 --> 01:45:37.562 But I've got to believe that that's going to 01:45:37.562 --> 01:45:40.135 potentially cause some additional challenges for you. 01:45:40.135 --> 01:45:41.188 Can you talk about the ones 01:45:41.188 --> 01:45:43.157 that you're specifically concerned with? 01:45:43.157 --> 01:45:45.058 - Senator, anytime you put pressure on the network 01:45:45.058 --> 01:45:48.562 and disrupt or dislodge ISIL from a certain area, 01:45:48.562 --> 01:45:49.996 a movement will occur. 01:45:49.996 --> 01:45:51.462 So that means the border countries 01:45:51.462 --> 01:45:54.513 to where that itook place are very concerned 01:45:54.513 --> 01:45:57.068 about foreign fighters moving back and forth 01:45:57.068 --> 01:46:00.379 and so that is one of the big concerns that we have. 01:46:00.379 --> 01:46:02.915 And one of the issues that we have to do deal with 01:46:02.915 --> 01:46:04.941 when we conduct operations it's important 01:46:04.941 --> 01:46:07.264 that the neighbors of those countries 01:46:07.264 --> 01:46:09.152 know what we're trying to do and understand 01:46:09.152 --> 01:46:11.753 why we're trying to do that so we can help them 01:46:11.753 --> 01:46:14.921 with the foreign fighter flow if movement should occur. 01:46:14.921 --> 01:46:16.838 - Thank you, Mr. Chair. 01:46:20.222 --> 01:46:23.010 - Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks to the witnesses. 01:46:23.010 --> 01:46:27.177 The Marine Corps Doctrinal Publication entitled "Strategy" 01:46:27.914 --> 01:46:29.083 has this phrase in it. 01:46:29.083 --> 01:46:32.317 "What matters ultimately in war is strategic success: 01:46:32.317 --> 01:46:34.276 "attainment of our political aims 01:46:34.276 --> 01:46:36.482 "and the protection of our national interests." 01:46:36.482 --> 01:46:38.595 "History shows that national leaders, both political 01:46:38.595 --> 01:46:41.760 "and military, who failed to understand this relationship 01:46:41.760 --> 01:46:43.835 "sow the seeds for ultimate failure 01:46:43.835 --> 01:46:44.759 "even when their armed forces 01:46:44.759 --> 01:46:47.108 "achieve initial battlefield success. 01:46:47.108 --> 01:46:51.193 "Battlefield brilliance seldom rescues a bad strategy." 01:46:51.193 --> 01:46:55.297 I've been heartened by the American military's performance 01:46:55.297 --> 01:46:58.741 on the battlefield, very heartened with our partners 01:46:58.741 --> 01:47:01.658 against ISIL in Iraq and now Syria. 01:47:01.838 --> 01:47:03.594 And although we wouldn't wanna predict anything 01:47:03.594 --> 01:47:05.424 about timing I think that we're gonna continue 01:47:05.424 --> 01:47:07.058 to have battlefield success. 01:47:07.058 --> 01:47:10.058 What is our political strategy, say, 01:47:10.970 --> 01:47:14.803 following the fall of Raqqa that would lead us 01:47:15.588 --> 01:47:17.350 to have a belief that there's gonna be 01:47:17.350 --> 01:47:21.517 a better next chapter to follow in Syria especially? 01:47:23.437 --> 01:47:25.514 - Senator, I'm not sure I can comment 01:47:25.514 --> 01:47:28.347 on what the political strategy is. 01:47:29.366 --> 01:47:33.355 I do believe this is a key aspect of what Secretary Mattis 01:47:33.355 --> 01:47:35.582 and the administration are discussing right now, 01:47:35.582 --> 01:47:39.281 with respect to what this looks like in long term. 01:47:39.281 --> 01:47:41.151 - And, General Votel, I think that's a good answer. 01:47:41.151 --> 01:47:43.455 You're not commenting 'cause the political strategy 01:47:43.455 --> 01:47:45.398 is really for the political leadership, 01:47:45.398 --> 01:47:48.155 not the military leadership, the administration and Congress 01:47:48.155 --> 01:47:52.130 and you understand that Congress has a role in this as well, 01:47:52.130 --> 01:47:53.743 not just the administration. 01:47:53.743 --> 01:47:54.769 - [Votel] I do, Senator. 01:47:54.769 --> 01:47:58.241 - We are pursuing a war now based on an authorization 01:47:58.241 --> 01:48:02.408 that's passed in September of 2001, now nearly 16 years old. 01:48:02.461 --> 01:48:05.456 Do you think it would be helpful in terms of articulating 01:48:05.456 --> 01:48:09.623 a political strategy that would put the military mission 01:48:09.834 --> 01:48:12.313 into a context into finding an end result 01:48:12.313 --> 01:48:14.554 in a potential desired future state 01:48:14.554 --> 01:48:17.218 if Congress were to grapple with the question 01:48:17.218 --> 01:48:20.135 of the authorities and this desired 01:48:21.946 --> 01:48:23.484 in political strategy. 01:48:23.484 --> 01:48:26.231 - Senator, I think the current AUMF 01:48:26.231 --> 01:48:28.564 has provided what we needed, 01:48:29.434 --> 01:48:32.856 but I do believe an updated authorization, 01:48:32.856 --> 01:48:34.832 certainly would send a stronger commitment 01:48:34.832 --> 01:48:38.361 to uniform the military area of our commitment 01:48:38.361 --> 01:48:39.785 and desire to support them. 01:48:39.785 --> 01:48:43.761 - In the CENTCOM space, if the military mission succeeds 01:48:43.761 --> 01:48:47.117 and Raqqa were to fall, do you still believe 01:48:47.117 --> 01:48:50.733 that the American mission against ISIL and Al-Qaeda 01:48:50.733 --> 01:48:52.566 will take a long time? 01:48:53.083 --> 01:48:53.916 - I do. 01:48:56.961 --> 01:48:58.929 This is a very savvy (mumbles) 01:48:58.929 --> 01:49:01.387 and they are adapting, like we are adapting 01:49:01.387 --> 01:49:03.501 on the battlefield, we are adapting on the battlefield. 01:49:03.501 --> 01:49:05.737 - Just like the ISIL attack in Afghanistan. 01:49:05.737 --> 01:49:06.570 - [Votel] Right, and so-- 01:49:06.570 --> 01:49:09.113 - Dressed as doctors attacking the hospital. 01:49:09.113 --> 01:49:10.580 This is a threat that's not gonna going away 01:49:10.580 --> 01:49:12.407 just because Raqqa were to fall, correct? 01:49:12.407 --> 01:49:13.240 - That's right. 01:49:13.240 --> 01:49:15.922 They will begin to adopt other forms 01:49:15.922 --> 01:49:18.143 and we will need to be persistent against that, 01:49:18.143 --> 01:49:19.682 and we will need to work with our partners 01:49:19.682 --> 01:49:22.040 to address that in both Iraq and Syria. 01:49:22.040 --> 01:49:24.094 - Well, my colleagues know 'cause I've said it a lot 01:49:24.094 --> 01:49:26.171 and others view it at the same way 01:49:26.171 --> 01:49:27.612 that this question of authorities 01:49:27.612 --> 01:49:29.841 I do think it's past time for Congress to address it 01:49:29.841 --> 01:49:32.828 whether you think the 9/14/01 AUMF 01:49:32.828 --> 01:49:36.661 legally covers the battle against ISIL or not. 01:49:37.239 --> 01:49:39.100 I think there's prudent reasons at a minimum 01:49:39.100 --> 01:49:41.515 and I think legal reasons as well that we should tackle it. 01:49:41.515 --> 01:49:43.419 On the question of legal authorities, 01:49:43.419 --> 01:49:45.933 traditionally you need two kinds of legal authorities 01:49:45.933 --> 01:49:47.699 to be engaged in military mission: 01:49:47.699 --> 01:49:50.329 you need a domestic legal authority and you need 01:49:50.329 --> 01:49:53.435 an international legal justification as well. 01:49:53.435 --> 01:49:56.343 The most common international legal justification 01:49:56.343 --> 01:50:00.053 for military action in somebody else's territories 01:50:00.053 --> 01:50:01.830 that they invited you. 01:50:01.830 --> 01:50:04.486 We're conducting military actions in Iraq, 01:50:04.486 --> 01:50:07.560 with these request in support of the Iraqi government, 01:50:07.560 --> 01:50:10.254 we're conducting military operations in Afghanistan 01:50:10.254 --> 01:50:12.912 with the support and request of the Iraqi government. 01:50:12.912 --> 01:50:15.824 We just conducted a DoD ground operation 01:50:15.824 --> 01:50:18.256 for the first time in Yemen with the request 01:50:18.256 --> 01:50:19.813 in support of the Yemeni government. 01:50:19.813 --> 01:50:23.813 Are we deploying marines in Syria at the request 01:50:23.956 --> 01:50:27.050 or with the permission of the Syrian government? 01:50:27.050 --> 01:50:28.472 - We are not, Senator. 01:50:28.472 --> 01:50:30.345 - What is the international legal justification 01:50:30.345 --> 01:50:34.172 for the US taking military action in another country 01:50:34.172 --> 01:50:35.806 without the request of that country? 01:50:35.806 --> 01:50:38.217 We've criticized nations such as Russia, for example, 01:50:38.217 --> 01:50:41.410 for undertaking military actions in the Ukraine or Crimea 01:50:41.410 --> 01:50:42.842 without the request of the government. 01:50:42.842 --> 01:50:43.675 - Thank you, Senator. 01:50:43.675 --> 01:50:47.593 I think we certainly make a judgment about the ability 01:50:47.593 --> 01:50:50.258 of the government to make a decision in that case. 01:50:50.258 --> 01:50:52.399 I think in what we are doing in Syria 01:50:52.399 --> 01:50:54.962 we are looking at that as an extension 01:50:54.962 --> 01:50:58.129 of the authority to operate from Iraq. 01:51:00.062 --> 01:51:03.657 - Iraq has had us in and we're cooperating with Iraq, 01:51:03.657 --> 01:51:05.679 we're there in Iraq at their request. 01:51:05.679 --> 01:51:07.325 But I guess the bottom line is 01:51:07.325 --> 01:51:09.071 there is no such request from Syria. 01:51:09.071 --> 01:51:11.818 We don't judge that government capable 01:51:11.818 --> 01:51:13.212 of making such request. 01:51:13.212 --> 01:51:15.768 We don't really recognize the legitimacy 01:51:15.768 --> 01:51:17.936 of Bushra al-Assad's government. 01:51:17.936 --> 01:51:21.617 But you're saying that the international legal justification 01:51:21.617 --> 01:51:23.751 for American military action in a country 01:51:23.751 --> 01:51:27.805 that hasn't asked us is the fact that we're engaged 01:51:27.805 --> 01:51:29.599 in a military action in a country next door 01:51:29.599 --> 01:51:31.099 that has asked us? 01:51:31.532 --> 01:51:35.699 - I believe we extend, we are being extended that authority 01:51:36.278 --> 01:51:39.579 by our leadership to conduct those operations 01:51:39.579 --> 01:51:42.171 principally because we are operating against an enemy 01:51:42.171 --> 01:51:45.401 that operates on both sides of that border. 01:51:45.401 --> 01:51:49.238 - If I might, one last question with respect to Yemen. 01:51:49.238 --> 01:51:51.564 We have had hearings in this committee 01:51:51.564 --> 01:51:53.027 about the ground operation in Yemen, 01:51:53.027 --> 01:51:55.419 which to my knowledge was the first ground operation 01:51:55.419 --> 01:51:57.336 by DoD forces in Yemen. 01:51:59.145 --> 01:52:01.136 There are a number of questions raised by that, 01:52:01.136 --> 01:52:03.034 I don't wanna go into the classified briefing we have, 01:52:03.034 --> 01:52:06.599 but questions about was the mission compromised 01:52:06.599 --> 01:52:10.766 in some way in the advance, what intel was gained, 01:52:12.530 --> 01:52:15.850 there were some, after the fact justification in the mission 01:52:15.850 --> 01:52:18.687 using video that actually been taken in another mission. 01:52:18.687 --> 01:52:22.195 Is the DoD conducting an ongoing investigation 01:52:22.195 --> 01:52:25.131 of that mission to determine all lessons learned, 01:52:25.131 --> 01:52:27.757 what worked, what didn't and what we can do better? 01:52:27.757 --> 01:52:28.972 - Senator, thank you. 01:52:28.972 --> 01:52:32.076 Let me answer this a little more comprehensively. 01:52:32.076 --> 01:52:32.909 - [King] Great. 01:52:32.909 --> 01:52:36.358 - First and foremost, I am responsible for this mission. 01:52:36.358 --> 01:52:38.366 I am the CENTCOM commander and I'm responsible 01:52:38.366 --> 01:52:40.182 for what's done in my region 01:52:40.182 --> 01:52:41.695 and what's not done in my region 01:52:41.695 --> 01:52:43.718 so I accept the responsibility for this. 01:52:43.718 --> 01:52:46.599 We lost a lot on this operation, we lost a valued operator, 01:52:46.599 --> 01:52:49.404 we had people wounded, we caused civilian causalities, 01:52:49.404 --> 01:52:51.487 lost an expense aircraft. 01:52:51.942 --> 01:52:54.173 We did gain some valuable information 01:52:54.173 --> 01:52:55.640 that will be helpful for us. 01:52:55.640 --> 01:52:57.683 Our intention here was to improve our knowledge 01:52:57.683 --> 01:53:00.069 against this threat, a threat that poses 01:53:00.069 --> 01:53:02.278 as a direct threat to us here in the homeland 01:53:02.278 --> 01:53:05.361 and that was what we were focused on. 01:53:07.721 --> 01:53:09.643 There had been a number of investigations 01:53:09.643 --> 01:53:11.643 that had been initiated. 01:53:11.814 --> 01:53:14.613 Most of these are regulatory or statutory 01:53:14.613 --> 01:53:16.638 in terms of things that we normally do. 01:53:16.638 --> 01:53:19.971 When an aircraft is, we lose an aircraft 01:53:19.988 --> 01:53:21.895 there's both a safety investigation 01:53:21.895 --> 01:53:24.026 to ensure that we disseminate lessons learned, 01:53:24.026 --> 01:53:26.483 so for the broader fleet, and then there's also 01:53:26.483 --> 01:53:28.434 a collateral investigation that tries to determine 01:53:28.434 --> 01:53:31.517 the specific reason why that happened 01:53:31.999 --> 01:53:34.193 and establishes accountability over that. 01:53:34.193 --> 01:53:38.360 We have done an investigation into the civilian casualties. 01:53:38.867 --> 01:53:40.475 That has been completed. 01:53:40.475 --> 01:53:42.670 The helicopter investigations are ongoing. 01:53:42.670 --> 01:53:46.587 The civilian casualty aspect has been completed 01:53:47.700 --> 01:53:49.087 and we have made a determination 01:53:49.087 --> 01:53:51.338 based on our best information available. 01:53:51.338 --> 01:53:53.323 And we did cause casualty, somewhere between 01:53:53.323 --> 01:53:57.490 four and 12 casualties that we accept responsibility, 01:53:58.616 --> 01:54:00.541 I accept responsibility for. 01:54:00.541 --> 01:54:02.576 We have done a line of duty investigation, 01:54:02.576 --> 01:54:05.220 again a statutory investigation, on the death 01:54:05.220 --> 01:54:07.807 of Senior Chief Owens, to determine 01:54:07.807 --> 01:54:09.925 that he was in the line of investigation. 01:54:09.925 --> 01:54:12.070 The key mechanism that I have, Senator, 01:54:12.070 --> 01:54:14.320 is the after-action review. 01:54:14.372 --> 01:54:17.548 And this is something we do with every operation we do 01:54:17.548 --> 01:54:21.631 and the intention here is to review the operation 01:54:22.273 --> 01:54:25.143 in great detail to understand exactly what happened 01:54:25.143 --> 01:54:28.641 and it is done with the chain of command in place. 01:54:28.641 --> 01:54:32.011 And we have done that and I have presided over that. 01:54:32.011 --> 01:54:35.935 Based on my experience, nearly 37 years of service, 01:54:35.935 --> 01:54:38.076 I've certainly appointed a lot of investigations 01:54:38.076 --> 01:54:40.983 and I've done them to a lot of these after-action reviews. 01:54:40.983 --> 01:54:42.108 When I go through these things 01:54:42.108 --> 01:54:44.834 there are some specific things that I'm looking for. 01:54:44.834 --> 01:54:49.001 I am looking for information gaps where we can't explain 01:54:49.483 --> 01:54:51.251 what happened in a particular situation 01:54:51.251 --> 01:54:53.318 or we have conflicting information 01:54:53.318 --> 01:54:55.128 between members of the organization. 01:54:55.128 --> 01:54:58.711 I am looking for indicators of incompetence 01:54:58.718 --> 01:55:01.968 or poor decision-making or bad judgment 01:55:02.038 --> 01:55:03.388 throughout all of this. 01:55:03.388 --> 01:55:07.555 So what I can tell you is that we did an exhaustive 01:55:07.687 --> 01:55:09.112 after-action review on this. 01:55:09.112 --> 01:55:11.145 I presided over that, it was to me. 01:55:11.145 --> 01:55:13.745 It went down to a level that included people 01:55:13.745 --> 01:55:16.280 who are on the specific objective. 01:55:16.280 --> 01:55:19.280 As a result of that, I was satisfied 01:55:19.305 --> 01:55:21.150 that none of those indicators 01:55:21.150 --> 01:55:24.317 that I identified to you were present. 01:55:24.488 --> 01:55:26.033 I think we had a good understanding 01:55:26.033 --> 01:55:28.690 of exactly what happened on this objective 01:55:28.690 --> 01:55:31.092 and we've been able to pull lessons learned out of that 01:55:31.092 --> 01:55:34.476 that we will apply in future operations in the past. 01:55:34.476 --> 01:55:36.807 And as a result, I made the determination 01:55:36.807 --> 01:55:40.163 that there was no need for an additional investigation 01:55:40.163 --> 01:55:42.746 into this particular operation. 01:55:43.513 --> 01:55:44.906 - So the only investigation that continues 01:55:44.906 --> 01:55:47.869 is the investigation or the loss of the helicopters 01:55:47.869 --> 01:55:48.905 is still not complete? 01:55:48.905 --> 01:55:50.360 - That is correct, Senator. 01:55:50.360 --> 01:55:51.193 - Thank you. 01:55:51.193 --> 01:55:52.223 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 01:55:52.223 --> 01:55:54.128 - Just to follow-up, General. 01:55:54.128 --> 01:55:55.787 There's been a lot of conversation 01:55:55.787 --> 01:55:58.287 about this particular mission, 01:55:58.776 --> 01:56:01.025 and the point that some of us are trying to make 01:56:01.025 --> 01:56:05.108 that the heroism and sacrifice of those who serve 01:56:05.363 --> 01:56:08.863 has nothing to do with the mission itself. 01:56:09.495 --> 01:56:11.957 In other words, we honor their sacrifice 01:56:11.957 --> 01:56:15.207 no matter what happened in the mission. 01:56:15.805 --> 01:56:17.222 And when you have 01:56:19.493 --> 01:56:20.945 women and children killed, 01:56:20.945 --> 01:56:24.676 as you pointed out, loss of a $70 million aircraft, 01:56:24.676 --> 01:56:28.843 you do not capture anyone as was part of the mission, 01:56:29.173 --> 01:56:31.673 that mission is not a success. 01:56:32.123 --> 01:56:35.903 But that happens in war, there's a thing called fog of war, 01:56:35.903 --> 01:56:37.225 they did the best they could 01:56:37.225 --> 01:56:40.142 under very difficult circumstances. 01:56:40.218 --> 01:56:44.218 And I hope in the process of your investigation, 01:56:45.400 --> 01:56:47.786 when heavy fire was encountered 01:56:47.786 --> 01:56:51.685 why the decision was made to continue the mission, 01:56:51.685 --> 01:56:53.495 I still don't think this committee 01:56:53.495 --> 01:56:56.162 has any answer to that question. 01:56:57.877 --> 01:57:00.685 But it does not question the loyalty and sacrifice 01:57:00.685 --> 01:57:04.102 and bravery when we question the mission. 01:57:04.822 --> 01:57:08.055 And unless we tell the American people the truth, 01:57:08.055 --> 01:57:11.662 the absolute truth, then we are gonna revisit 01:57:11.662 --> 01:57:14.433 another war a long time ago where we didn't tell 01:57:14.433 --> 01:57:16.898 the American people the truth and we paid 01:57:16.898 --> 01:57:19.065 a very heavy price for it. 01:57:19.320 --> 01:57:21.737 There's 55,000 names engraved 01:57:22.504 --> 01:57:25.411 in black granite not far from here, 01:57:25.411 --> 01:57:28.494 and the American people were not told 01:57:28.678 --> 01:57:31.973 the truth about whether we were succeeding 01:57:31.973 --> 01:57:33.890 or failing in that war. 01:57:34.446 --> 01:57:37.775 And then because of that it all collapsed. 01:57:37.775 --> 01:57:41.275 So I hope that we won't forget that lesson 01:57:41.644 --> 01:57:45.477 and in no way does it detract from the heroism 01:57:45.729 --> 01:57:48.817 and professionalism and sacrifice of the brave men and women 01:57:48.817 --> 01:57:51.234 who serve under your command. 01:57:53.170 --> 01:57:54.670 Senator McCaskill. 01:57:55.345 --> 01:57:57.371 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 01:57:57.371 --> 01:57:59.890 I just wanna underline the comments you just made, 01:57:59.890 --> 01:58:01.669 and I do think it's important that we get answers 01:58:01.669 --> 01:58:05.188 to the questions about what happened at that moment. 01:58:05.188 --> 01:58:07.387 In very difficult circumstances, admittedly 01:58:07.387 --> 01:58:11.554 the heavy fire occurred and a decision was made to continue. 01:58:12.265 --> 01:58:14.368 I'm also anxious to have the questions answered 01:58:14.368 --> 01:58:18.535 about the real value of the intelligence that was gathered. 01:58:19.139 --> 01:58:21.291 I think there has been some mixed signals 01:58:21.291 --> 01:58:24.468 about the value of the intelligence that was gathered. 01:58:24.468 --> 01:58:26.896 I wanna talk to you today, I've spent an awful lot of time 01:58:26.896 --> 01:58:29.812 working on contracting in contingencies. 01:58:29.812 --> 01:58:33.229 And I remember my very first trip to Iraq 01:58:34.657 --> 01:58:38.216 included a stop in Kuwait to look at contracting. 01:58:38.216 --> 01:58:41.078 And I had an encounter with a general there 01:58:41.078 --> 01:58:42.645 that I will never forget. 01:58:42.645 --> 01:58:46.026 I will always admire him for being so honest with me 01:58:46.026 --> 01:58:50.117 because I was pointing out all of these massive props 01:58:50.117 --> 01:58:53.678 with contracting, especially LOGCAP 1, LOGCAP 2 01:58:53.678 --> 01:58:56.845 and all of those associated contracts, 01:58:56.948 --> 01:58:59.615 and he looked at me and he said, 01:58:59.695 --> 01:59:02.168 "Senator, I wanted three kinds of ice cream 01:59:02.168 --> 01:59:03.309 "in the mess yesterday 01:59:03.309 --> 01:59:06.108 "and I don't care how much it cost." 01:59:06.108 --> 01:59:09.358 Now, while I admire him for his honesty 01:59:09.608 --> 01:59:13.773 it kind of underscored for me that contracting oversight 01:59:13.773 --> 01:59:17.559 was not a core capability many times within commands, 01:59:17.559 --> 01:59:18.632 within contingencies. 01:59:18.632 --> 01:59:21.440 If it were, we wouldn't have this long trail 01:59:21.440 --> 01:59:23.617 of mistakes made going all the way back to Kosovo 01:59:23.617 --> 01:59:24.867 on contracting. 01:59:24.906 --> 01:59:28.730 So I was upset yesterday when I saw the DoD IG report 01:59:28.730 --> 01:59:31.562 coming out of Kuwait where they said 01:59:31.562 --> 01:59:34.111 that ineffective monitoring of contract to performance 01:59:34.111 --> 01:59:37.703 for the Kuwait base operations, a particular concern 01:59:37.703 --> 01:59:39.711 that the contract and officer representatives, 01:59:39.711 --> 01:59:41.807 which we've worked very hard, 01:59:41.807 --> 01:59:43.779 meaning at the point in time I was over there 01:59:43.779 --> 01:59:47.753 it was the worse guy in the unit got handed the clipboard, 01:59:47.753 --> 01:59:49.239 had no idea what he was supposed to do 01:59:49.239 --> 01:59:52.045 in terms of contracting oversight and didn't do much. 01:59:52.045 --> 01:59:53.792 We've done a lot of work on this, 01:59:53.792 --> 01:59:56.040 training and making sure people understand 01:59:56.040 --> 01:59:59.151 and with standing up the contracting command. 01:59:59.151 --> 02:00:01.949 So the fact that there's no consistent surveillance 02:00:01.949 --> 02:00:05.151 of these contracts in Kuwait, no assurance 02:00:05.151 --> 02:00:07.244 of the contract requirements had been met, 02:00:07.244 --> 02:00:10.698 and the entire $13 million performance bonus was paid 02:00:10.698 --> 02:00:13.290 even though it's not clear that it was earned, 02:00:13.290 --> 02:00:15.730 and maybe most worrisome this environmental 02:00:15.730 --> 02:00:18.536 and health hazard that has been allowed to languish. 02:00:18.536 --> 02:00:20.687 It's fairly clear from reading this report 02:00:20.687 --> 02:00:23.951 that a stagnant waste water lagoon went unresolved 02:00:23.951 --> 02:00:26.713 that it was probably never constructed correctly 02:00:26.713 --> 02:00:29.586 and it's really impacting the health and safety 02:00:29.586 --> 02:00:32.745 of some of our men and women that are stationed there. 02:00:32.745 --> 02:00:35.846 So I need you to reassure me that we have not 02:00:35.846 --> 02:00:39.841 taken our eye off the importance of contracting oversight. 02:00:39.841 --> 02:00:43.674 And this is not just you, this is also the ACC 02:00:43.712 --> 02:00:47.212 and the 408th Contracting Support Brigade. 02:00:47.952 --> 02:00:49.042 - Thank you, thank you, Senator. 02:00:49.042 --> 02:00:51.829 I absolutely agree with you and I recognize 02:00:51.829 --> 02:00:54.349 my responsibility as the CENTCOM commander 02:00:54.349 --> 02:00:56.914 and as a senior leader in the Department of Defense 02:00:56.914 --> 02:01:00.574 to ensure that the expenditure of our national treasure 02:01:00.574 --> 02:01:02.592 and our resources is done in an effective 02:01:02.592 --> 02:01:04.342 and efficient manner. 02:01:04.393 --> 02:01:07.171 And I look forward to an opportunity to talk with you 02:01:07.171 --> 02:01:09.815 specifically about this situation in Kuwait. 02:01:09.815 --> 02:01:11.103 - I would like that very much. 02:01:11.103 --> 02:01:12.913 And we'll look forward to hearing from you directly 02:01:12.913 --> 02:01:15.923 'cause I wanna, the thing that, the most frustrating 02:01:15.923 --> 02:01:19.649 about the contracting (mumbles) Iraq conflict 02:01:19.649 --> 02:01:21.834 before the we did the contracting reforms 02:01:21.834 --> 02:01:24.383 that the Wartime Contracting Commission set out 02:01:24.383 --> 02:01:25.495 and we codified all of those, 02:01:25.495 --> 02:01:28.078 most of them in this committee. 02:01:31.311 --> 02:01:33.742 The amount of money that was wasted was astounding 02:01:33.742 --> 02:01:36.604 and we just can't afford it, we just can't afford it. 02:01:36.604 --> 02:01:39.545 Let me briefly, in the time I have remaining, 02:01:39.545 --> 02:01:42.101 I know that they have covered Russia 02:01:42.101 --> 02:01:46.268 as it relates to what's been going on in Afghanistan. 02:01:46.383 --> 02:01:48.833 I'm not sure that it's been touched on, 02:01:48.833 --> 02:01:51.083 what's going on in Nigeria. 02:01:51.728 --> 02:01:54.744 And I would (mumbles) to speak to that, General Waldhauser, 02:01:54.744 --> 02:01:58.111 about the fact that we refuse to sell them 02:01:58.111 --> 02:02:01.738 Cobra attack helicopters because of the history 02:02:01.738 --> 02:02:04.280 of human rights problems and undeterred by that history 02:02:04.280 --> 02:02:07.922 of which Russia stepped up and now sold them 02:02:07.922 --> 02:02:11.350 attack helicopters and now training the Nigerian military 02:02:11.350 --> 02:02:14.601 including the special forces instead of the United States. 02:02:14.601 --> 02:02:17.826 Could you give us any assessment of the impact of that 02:02:17.826 --> 02:02:20.964 that Russia has stepped in where our better judgment said 02:02:20.964 --> 02:02:24.366 it wasn't a good idea and is now taking on that primary role 02:02:24.366 --> 02:02:26.632 with the Nigerian special forces? 02:02:26.632 --> 02:02:28.567 - Senator, not only Nigeria, excuse me, 02:02:28.567 --> 02:02:31.307 but other countries in the continent. 02:02:31.307 --> 02:02:33.893 There are easier ways to get to military sales, 02:02:33.893 --> 02:02:36.205 if countries come in China, Russia, 02:02:36.205 --> 02:02:38.649 North Korea, for example, if they come in 02:02:38.649 --> 02:02:40.366 and don't have a lot of strings attached 02:02:40.366 --> 02:02:42.829 then sometimes it's easier for those countries 02:02:42.829 --> 02:02:46.327 to purchase weapon systems from others than the US. 02:02:46.327 --> 02:02:50.494 So we try to accommodate certain financial situations, 02:02:50.511 --> 02:02:52.651 I know the DSCA people that work for OSD 02:02:52.651 --> 02:02:55.684 try hard to accommodate that, and really look closely 02:02:55.684 --> 02:02:58.257 at the absorption capability of these countries. 02:02:58.257 --> 02:03:02.424 But again, in many occasions, human rights is not an issue 02:03:02.642 --> 02:03:03.918 when it comes to weapon sales 02:03:03.918 --> 02:03:06.241 from countries other than United States. 02:03:06.241 --> 02:03:08.201 - Well I think that's something we need to worry about 02:03:08.201 --> 02:03:10.962 because it is obviously a powerful way 02:03:10.962 --> 02:03:14.491 to spread the influence and power of Russia. 02:03:14.491 --> 02:03:17.641 And I think we all, no matter what our party is, 02:03:17.641 --> 02:03:19.691 have figured out in the last six months 02:03:19.691 --> 02:03:21.652 that this is a real threat to our country 02:03:21.652 --> 02:03:22.912 and to our national security. 02:03:22.912 --> 02:03:24.624 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 02:03:24.624 --> 02:03:26.100 - [McCain] Senator Graham. 02:03:26.100 --> 02:03:27.744 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 02:03:27.744 --> 02:03:29.705 I think you've been asked about soft power 02:03:29.705 --> 02:03:31.334 and the need for it. 02:03:31.334 --> 02:03:33.848 Both of you said it's an important tool in the toolbox 02:03:33.848 --> 02:03:36.086 to win the war, is that correct? 02:03:36.086 --> 02:03:37.960 - That's correct, Senator. - Yes, Senator, yes. 02:03:37.960 --> 02:03:41.210 - And you're warfighter extraordinaires 02:03:42.090 --> 02:03:45.177 so I appreciate you putting a plug in for self peril. 02:03:45.177 --> 02:03:46.231 Let me dig in a bit. 02:03:46.231 --> 02:03:48.814 Can you win the war without it? 02:03:49.226 --> 02:03:51.326 - I don't believe we can, Senator. 02:03:51.326 --> 02:03:53.134 Everything comes from security, 02:03:53.134 --> 02:03:54.634 once you have a secure environment 02:03:54.634 --> 02:03:56.130 development needs to take place 02:03:56.130 --> 02:03:58.689 and that's where soft power kicks in. 02:03:58.689 --> 02:04:00.198 - I agree with General Waldhauser. 02:04:00.198 --> 02:04:03.261 - So really this war is about a glorious death 02:04:03.261 --> 02:04:05.319 being offered by the terrorist 02:04:05.319 --> 02:04:08.599 in a hopeful life by the rest of the world. 02:04:08.599 --> 02:04:09.990 Is that a pretty good description 02:04:09.990 --> 02:04:12.152 of what we're trying to do, is offer a hopeful life 02:04:12.152 --> 02:04:14.902 to compete with a glorious death? 02:04:15.427 --> 02:04:19.594 - I think in very general terms I think it is about that. 02:04:20.259 --> 02:04:24.009 It is about offering alternatives to people-- 02:04:24.812 --> 02:04:25.645 - Right. 02:04:25.645 --> 02:04:26.605 - [Votel] Situations that they find themselves in. 02:04:26.605 --> 02:04:29.938 - And the good news is that most people over there 02:04:29.938 --> 02:04:32.605 don't want what ISIL is selling. 02:04:33.032 --> 02:04:35.662 There's not a big demand for that product. 02:04:35.662 --> 02:04:37.728 Is that a fair statement? 02:04:37.728 --> 02:04:40.425 - Certainly on the African continent that's true, very true. 02:04:40.425 --> 02:04:41.611 - I would agree with that, Senator. 02:04:41.611 --> 02:04:44.339 - Very few fathers and mothers wanna turn their daughters 02:04:44.339 --> 02:04:46.147 over to ISIL if they don't have to. 02:04:46.147 --> 02:04:47.751 Is that a fair statement? 02:04:47.751 --> 02:04:49.687 - It is, Senator. - Yes, Senator, it's fair. 02:04:49.687 --> 02:04:51.792 - And is it a fair statement we're not gonna win this war 02:04:51.792 --> 02:04:54.292 without partners in the faith? 02:04:54.598 --> 02:04:55.759 The only way you can win this war 02:04:55.759 --> 02:04:59.291 is have fellow Muslims fighting with us against ISIL. 02:04:59.291 --> 02:05:02.488 - It's my view that we have to have local forces 02:05:02.488 --> 02:05:03.487 engaged in this. 02:05:03.487 --> 02:05:05.945 - That's what by, with, and through is all about, Senator. 02:05:05.945 --> 02:05:08.848 - Okay, and is it fair to say that most people in the faith 02:05:08.848 --> 02:05:11.265 reject this hateful ideology? 02:05:12.897 --> 02:05:14.750 - That is true, Senator. 02:05:14.750 --> 02:05:15.583 - I agree. 02:05:15.636 --> 02:05:18.336 - So I want the committee to understand 02:05:18.336 --> 02:05:20.457 that any budget we pass that guts 02:05:20.457 --> 02:05:22.850 the state department's budget you'll never win this war, 02:05:22.850 --> 02:05:26.600 as a matter of fact ISIL will be celebrating. 02:05:27.278 --> 02:05:30.834 What is Russia trying to do in Libya, General Waldhauser? 02:05:30.834 --> 02:05:32.750 - Senator, Russia is trying to exert influence 02:05:32.750 --> 02:05:35.396 on the ultimate decision of who becomes 02:05:35.396 --> 02:05:37.061 and what entity becomes in charge 02:05:37.061 --> 02:05:38.328 of the government inside Libya. 02:05:38.328 --> 02:05:41.614 They're working to influence that decision. 02:05:41.614 --> 02:05:42.570 - They're trying to do in Libya 02:05:42.570 --> 02:05:45.249 what they have been doing in Syria? 02:05:45.249 --> 02:05:47.029 - Yes, that's a good way to characterize it. 02:05:47.029 --> 02:05:48.454 - It's not in our national interest 02:05:48.454 --> 02:05:49.818 to let that happen, is it? 02:05:49.818 --> 02:05:50.800 - It is not. 02:05:50.800 --> 02:05:53.368 - Okay, the political situation in Libya 02:05:53.368 --> 02:05:55.951 is pretty fractious, fractured. 02:05:55.958 --> 02:05:57.442 - It's very fractured, Senator. 02:05:57.442 --> 02:06:00.505 - So the commander of their military is at odds 02:06:00.505 --> 02:06:04.672 with the political leader supported by the UN, is that fair? 02:06:05.404 --> 02:06:06.358 - That's fair, yes. 02:06:06.358 --> 02:06:08.087 - And if we don't fix that it's gonna be tough 02:06:08.087 --> 02:06:09.157 moving forward. 02:06:09.157 --> 02:06:11.795 - We've gotta get the entities specifically Haftar 02:06:11.795 --> 02:06:13.603 and the Government of National Accord together 02:06:13.603 --> 02:06:15.258 to make an accommodation in order to get 02:06:15.258 --> 02:06:17.111 any government moving forward. 02:06:17.111 --> 02:06:19.480 - Would you say that Secretary Tillerson's very important 02:06:19.480 --> 02:06:20.730 in this regard? 02:06:21.308 --> 02:06:22.754 - Very important, Senator. 02:06:22.754 --> 02:06:25.815 - So we need to put that on his radar screen. 02:06:25.815 --> 02:06:27.898 - We need to, yes, we do. 02:06:28.091 --> 02:06:32.258 - Okay, Syria, the Kurds that we're turning, General Votel, 02:06:34.193 --> 02:06:38.360 are they mostly lined with the YPG, are they YPG Kurds? 02:06:38.842 --> 02:06:40.365 - They are, Senator. 02:06:40.365 --> 02:06:43.128 - Is it fair to say that in the eyes of the Turks 02:06:43.128 --> 02:06:45.961 the YPG Kurds are not much better, 02:06:46.178 --> 02:06:48.511 if any, better than the PKK? 02:06:48.525 --> 02:06:51.622 - Senator, that is the view of the Turks. 02:06:51.622 --> 02:06:55.789 - Is it fair to say that the YPG Kurds have a sort 02:06:56.743 --> 02:06:59.837 of a Communist Marxist view of governing? 02:06:59.837 --> 02:07:03.004 That's what their manifesto is anyway. 02:07:03.179 --> 02:07:05.716 - Senator, I think it's fair to say 02:07:05.716 --> 02:07:09.466 that there's some affinity back towards that. 02:07:10.671 --> 02:07:14.425 - So is it fair to say that we've gotta be careful 02:07:14.425 --> 02:07:17.342 about over utilizing the YPG Kurds, 02:07:17.495 --> 02:07:20.832 not only will it create problems for Turkey, 02:07:20.832 --> 02:07:24.900 other Kurds in the region don't buy into their agenda also. 02:07:24.900 --> 02:07:26.653 - I think it is important. 02:07:26.653 --> 02:07:28.994 And that is why as we look to a place like Raqqa 02:07:28.994 --> 02:07:32.070 we are attempting to do that with the majority Arab forces. 02:07:32.070 --> 02:07:36.237 - Is it fair to say that how we take Raqqa can determine 02:07:36.933 --> 02:07:40.644 the outcome of Geneva, in terms of a political settlement? 02:07:40.644 --> 02:07:43.977 - I think it's certainly a key operation 02:07:44.317 --> 02:07:46.007 and we'll support that. 02:07:46.007 --> 02:07:50.120 - Is it fair to say that the balance of power on the ground 02:07:50.120 --> 02:07:54.287 in terms of Assad's regime that he's in a good spot? 02:07:55.266 --> 02:07:57.231 - He is in a better position than he was a year ago. 02:07:57.231 --> 02:08:00.154 - That the opposition has basically melted away 02:08:00.154 --> 02:08:02.243 because Russia, Iran and Assad 02:08:02.243 --> 02:08:05.129 have gone after them full-throated. 02:08:05.129 --> 02:08:07.653 - The support that's been provided by Russia and Iran 02:08:07.653 --> 02:08:09.412 have certainly enabled the regime. 02:08:09.412 --> 02:08:12.186 - Is it fair to say that most Syrians want two things, 02:08:12.186 --> 02:08:14.323 to get rid of ISIL, but also to get rid of Assad 02:08:14.323 --> 02:08:17.406 'cause he slaughtered their families? 02:08:18.532 --> 02:08:21.382 - The Syrians that I talked to, I think, 02:08:21.382 --> 02:08:23.129 would agree with that. 02:08:23.129 --> 02:08:23.975 - Is it to fair to say 02:08:23.975 --> 02:08:25.505 it's in our national security interest 02:08:25.505 --> 02:08:29.172 for Damascus not to be handed over to Assad, 02:08:29.752 --> 02:08:32.311 a proxy for Iran in any final settlement 02:08:32.311 --> 02:08:36.144 that you cannot have Iran dominating Damascus? 02:08:36.317 --> 02:08:38.778 - Senator, I think that's certainly a decision 02:08:38.778 --> 02:08:40.427 for our political leadership to make, 02:08:40.427 --> 02:08:44.429 but it's certainly, I think there's a strong sense of-- 02:08:44.429 --> 02:08:46.708 - Final thought, how we take Raqqa will determine 02:08:46.708 --> 02:08:50.219 if we can get a political settlement in Geneva, 02:08:50.219 --> 02:08:51.540 if we don't change the balance 02:08:51.540 --> 02:08:53.600 of military power on the ground, 02:08:53.600 --> 02:08:56.439 go outside of this Kurdish construct, 02:08:56.439 --> 02:08:58.386 reassure the Arabs that were a better partner 02:08:58.386 --> 02:09:00.304 that we've been in the past, 02:09:00.304 --> 02:09:03.080 we're gonna give Damascus to the Ukrainians, 02:09:03.080 --> 02:09:06.297 it will help those Syrian Arabs who wanna fight 02:09:06.297 --> 02:09:08.159 and take their country back from Assad 02:09:08.159 --> 02:09:10.627 and his brutal dictatorship, I think we change 02:09:10.627 --> 02:09:12.214 the balance of power on the ground 02:09:12.214 --> 02:09:15.047 and a get a better deal in Geneva. 02:09:15.109 --> 02:09:18.389 So if the Trump administration's listening 02:09:18.389 --> 02:09:21.688 how you take Raqqa will determine how successful we are 02:09:21.688 --> 02:09:24.884 in neutralizing an Iranian influence and Russian influence. 02:09:24.884 --> 02:09:27.153 Mr. Chairman, you've been terrific on this issue, 02:09:27.153 --> 02:09:30.320 I wanna thank you for your leadership. 02:09:30.337 --> 02:09:31.912 - I thank you, I thank you generals 02:09:31.912 --> 02:09:35.079 for your appearance here this morning. 02:09:35.143 --> 02:09:37.012 It's been very helpful to the committee 02:09:37.012 --> 02:09:39.595 and to the United Sates Senate. 02:09:39.831 --> 02:09:42.798 I know it's not your favorite past-time 02:09:42.798 --> 02:09:45.381 but I think it's very important 02:09:45.501 --> 02:09:48.084 that we hear directly from you. 02:09:48.641 --> 02:09:52.808 Thank you for your leadership and we do want to make sure 02:09:53.059 --> 02:09:56.642 that we do everything we can to support you 02:09:57.277 --> 02:10:00.165 as we go through what is a very complicated 02:10:00.165 --> 02:10:01.811 and difficult challenge. 02:10:01.811 --> 02:10:03.061 - Senator Reed? 02:10:03.640 --> 02:10:06.538 - I simply wanna thank you, gentlemen, for your service 02:10:06.538 --> 02:10:08.788 and for your testimony today and please relay our thanks 02:10:08.788 --> 02:10:11.327 to the men and women who serves well with you. 02:10:11.327 --> 02:10:12.512 Thank you very much. 02:10:12.512 --> 02:10:15.595 - [McCain] This hearing is adjourned.