WEBVTT 00:02.150 --> 00:05.390 Nope for that isn't the is VC programs that actually are I'm 00:05.390 --> 00:09.490 time for this cow fell uh. Thank you for your patience I made. 00:10.150 --> 00:10.560 That don't. 00:11.440 --> 00:14.080 Spend a lot of time getting to this point. We're gonna be hearing 00:14.080 --> 00:15.340 from the 10 it pearls that. 00:15.920 --> 00:20.130 But not for us army their pension incorrectly are close enough. 00:21.050 --> 00:25.550 Uh I tried special begin prosecutor the day it's okay. 00:26.900 --> 00:30.990 Um al lee Tae agile a base Lewis mccaughran washington. 00:31.580 --> 00:34.360 The taken the second from the 10 a commander philip jay. 00:36.440 --> 00:39.260 Hammond us navy senior track council. 00:39.950 --> 00:43.130 The reason the region move legal service up this label district 00:43.160 --> 00:43.670 why should. 00:44.230 --> 00:47.810 There are from major dad that see patched us meringue coursing 00:47.810 --> 00:52.680 a complex trap council legal support section west camp pendleton california. 00:53.610 --> 00:57.610 Forces major brent jones us air force senior trial counsel air 00:57.610 --> 01:01.650 force legal operation. Jade mousy joint base entries Maryland. 01:02.480 --> 01:05.920 And finally from lieutenant jeffrey see Bahrain us coastguard 01:05.920 --> 01:09.110 trot council base port portsmouth's bridging. 01:10.100 --> 01:13.740 So will star first was lieutenant pearls got a Mac and make mistake 01:13.740 --> 01:16.490 a second time you can tell me headed for that today is my and 01:16.490 --> 01:18.130 that's all for a cake. 01:19.420 --> 01:21.790 Massacre. Thank you so much surfer company. 01:23.290 --> 01:28.510 It been men share a distinguished their members and it just around. 01:29.190 --> 01:32.770 I'm gonna roll scout. You walk around the special that the prosecutor 01:33.120 --> 01:37.820 a joint base was mccaughran with the area period station essentially 01:38.210 --> 01:39.510 um which takes me. 01:40.010 --> 01:41.430 In that in the western state. 01:42.890 --> 01:47.180 Now i've as I understand a year previously provided the bio as 01:47.180 --> 01:50.410 it relates to some of their careers on the the going there that 01:50.840 --> 01:54.630 I won I do want to focus on the art is actually dreariest and 01:54.630 --> 01:57.990 it's based on talks topics that they're covered by the panel 01:57.990 --> 02:00.780 so far and information provided to that. 02:01.490 --> 02:04.280 I'm the first being experience in a. 02:05.400 --> 02:09.470 Essentially my interaction with the SCC program. The sack in 02:09.470 --> 02:14.430 being the be impact on alternative solutions are cooperation 02:14.460 --> 02:16.340 for non cooperation five victims. 02:16.910 --> 02:19.620 Uh is it relates to the interaction with ears feces. 02:20.420 --> 02:24.270 In a in a third and final you would be information sharing. 02:24.270 --> 02:26.980 I am I'm sure is going to come up at some point. 02:27.840 --> 02:29.410 I'm going to the first. 02:30.480 --> 02:34.240 Uh I question was presented whether it has changed my practice. 02:34.780 --> 02:39.200 Um the SCC program generally in and I would say no mike sprays 02:39.200 --> 02:40.350 would be as feces. 02:40.860 --> 02:44.760 Um and it is limited to you might my jurisdiction and folks that 02:44.760 --> 02:49.470 i've known through a the jack core uh we've become SP season. 02:49.470 --> 02:50.680 When we have talked about. 02:51.260 --> 02:52.590 A has been pasta. 02:53.330 --> 02:54.340 Um it is. 02:54.990 --> 02:58.110 Not without the the fact that it was introduced me was a change 02:58.110 --> 02:58.690 for us. 02:59.600 --> 03:00.650 Change from harm. 03:01.160 --> 03:02.290 Prior practice. 03:02.860 --> 03:07.670 I'm Silly that point. It is something that yes I we had to adapt 03:07.670 --> 03:11.340 tea and we ended include somebody else and and of communication 03:11.340 --> 03:16.100 chain and recounts to those folks which we normally get on our up.. Um. 03:16.920 --> 03:24.580 Um. But as it relates to um commanders and manors experience 03:24.580 --> 03:28.450 with the program a it's been my experience the in the command 03:28.450 --> 03:34.280 has embraced the program a I attended a training for incoming 03:34.280 --> 03:37.560 commanders in their first arms for starts in the army. 03:38.520 --> 03:45.450 In. I and they are the SCC use their see ideas there. A as well 03:45.450 --> 03:50.610 as mel helford to work with him that the process and and oftentimes 03:50.960 --> 03:54.690 there's a senior commander. Oh six level commander there advocating for. 03:55.840 --> 03:59.620 The program and the interaction of those new company commanders 03:59.650 --> 04:01.080 first arms to. 04:02.040 --> 04:03.850 Identify with the program is. 04:04.820 --> 04:08.330 They're soldiers who've been victimised. Come poured a four to 04:08.610 --> 04:09.870 two reasons it helps. 04:10.550 --> 04:15.030 Them relate to the soldier who's been victimised in their ranks. 04:15.710 --> 04:20.260 As well allies it helps next man team can understand what their 04:20.460 --> 04:23.620 their role these and where they were they fit within the. Structure. 04:25.830 --> 04:31.200 Positive and I'm experiences and and challenges and Positive 04:31.200 --> 04:32.610 experiences ben numbers. 04:33.150 --> 04:35.390 Um be experiences. 04:37.550 --> 04:42.600 Have. Oh well being the SCC is to replace have. Oh wow. 04:43.860 --> 04:49.740 Those victims to now I have a waste um but to um inform them 04:49.740 --> 04:53.530 on the process come back to the prosecutors when they get have 04:53.530 --> 04:56.020 question's one of the first things that I am. 04:56.810 --> 05:00.300 When I talk to victims and what I'm interviewing them is. 05:00.830 --> 05:03.780 You may have questions you may not have questions right now. 05:04.310 --> 05:09.130 Okay but as they come forward. You know have years PC there to 05:09.160 --> 05:13.050 reach out to us and in one of a should be able to answer so the 05:13.050 --> 05:14.710 program itself has. 05:15.500 --> 05:20.210 I believe opened up um that that when a communication. 05:20.750 --> 05:24.970 Um the case now they have somebody to who has the ability to 05:24.970 --> 05:28.690 advise him of their legal rights as well as the um just to talk 05:28.690 --> 05:29.820 about the process. 05:30.470 --> 05:34.430 Versus talking to a prosecutor who's interest now knowing is 05:34.430 --> 05:38.100 with the victim the chicken and in but also is responsible for 05:38.100 --> 05:41.610 prosecuting the case. I'm so a think in man. 05:43.790 --> 05:49.490 And the portion is been greatly helpful um to geese to the soldiers. 05:50.720 --> 05:55.810 Challenges um you heard or open midday than an increasingly army. 05:56.260 --> 06:01.340 I'm there may not be the won't experience in in every jurisdiction 06:01.450 --> 06:03.820 that everybody would hope that there would be. 06:04.380 --> 06:07.720 Um and I would say that that's true statement in my experience. 06:08.270 --> 06:10.900 Um I have dealt with as feces who. 06:11.640 --> 06:15.820 Who are who just come from prosecuting cases and in a very good. 06:16.400 --> 06:19.860 And it will vary getting the job and then when they become an 06:19.860 --> 06:24.880 SCC they take all of that experience uh out with them and are 06:24.880 --> 06:27.930 able to relate that to um their clients. 06:29.090 --> 06:29.540 So that. 06:30.080 --> 06:31.130 Extremely helpful. 06:31.760 --> 06:35.660 Um but is a relates to the challenges be for those individuals 06:35.660 --> 06:38.650 who don't have that experience of being in the core worm in dealing 06:38.650 --> 06:43.740 with the rules um that makes it tough and and it it's more a 06:43.770 --> 06:49.010 perspective of fighting about all versus the war that is as I 06:49.010 --> 06:52.340 would like to recruit to the actual entire trot. 06:52.960 --> 06:56.730 Um if you fighting individual battles and you're not really aware 06:56.730 --> 07:00.330 of the issues that can then that those long-term the facts of 07:00.330 --> 07:03.680 some of the the fight stitching making on you know. 07:04.430 --> 07:05.130 In the immediate. 07:05.710 --> 07:10.140 Um. Uh that headed. You know poll bookshop to the side and just 07:10.140 --> 07:15.100 kinda have that discussion of okay here I'm one you need identified 07:15.100 --> 07:17.930 fear prime. If you're kleins privacy interest are at stake in 07:17.930 --> 07:20.330 if they want to serve that and if not. 07:20.900 --> 07:25.160 Um you know that's an different issue. But when we need to in 07:25.190 --> 07:27.760 least describe to them and explain to them. 07:28.270 --> 07:32.240 The whole process as a relates to doctor taking it for 12 whatever 07:32.240 --> 07:34.210 may be so they have a complete. Understanding. 07:36.070 --> 07:38.030 Military judges um. 07:38.650 --> 07:42.460 And my experience my jurisdiction that military judges include 07:42.460 --> 07:44.830 vs feces and um. 07:46.010 --> 07:49.530 In the planning process. The scheduling and they take it in the consideration. 07:49.530 --> 07:52.790 I know that there is something you know not hard and fast current 07:52.790 --> 07:56.430 like as a relates to allow them standing to.. Um. 07:57.010 --> 08:04.310 Um. Used their schedule work calendar as a. A hard and fast waited 08:04.310 --> 08:06.690 docking cases and I I know that that wouldn't. 08:07.370 --> 08:08.820 It's my Um. 08:09.610 --> 08:12.950 Perception and that's the frustrating piece from for the judges 08:12.980 --> 08:17.090 as well they don't have something no concrete to down where they 08:17.090 --> 08:19.890 can rely on any authority are barred its center. 08:20.570 --> 08:21.840 On bite. 08:22.710 --> 08:27.360 As a relates to be about the as feces are getting um. 08:28.460 --> 08:32.940 And one of our absolutely for those instances were reported on 08:33.060 --> 08:36.890 five 13 matters. It said around a visit aided two sessions. 08:37.460 --> 08:41.530 They come back they are part of the discussion they're absolutely included. 08:42.270 --> 08:44.060 Um and like it said be. 08:45.170 --> 08:49.580 This is my experience with in my own jurisdiction. I am aware 08:49.580 --> 08:52.990 that it may not be the same and every other jurisdiction every 08:52.990 --> 08:56.740 other multi-jack should you know with his discretion has her discretion. 08:57.100 --> 08:58.070 They know what before. 08:59.670 --> 09:04.210 Impact on altering um faltered. Disposition was cooperation cooperation. 09:05.710 --> 09:06.390 I think it's. 09:07.440 --> 09:11.860 Been very helpful because it provides clarity um when they have 09:11.860 --> 09:15.700 a council that they can rely on and that the council can be their 09:15.700 --> 09:17.300 voice um. 09:17.810 --> 09:20.420 It all that allows feedback back to the government. 09:21.050 --> 09:24.850 That is decisive you know exactly where you stand and you can 09:24.850 --> 09:28.560 start michael um that stations as a relation negotiations or. 09:29.290 --> 09:33.140 Whether you move forward because for one time you just have some clarity. 09:34.640 --> 09:35.130 And then. 09:35.900 --> 09:39.150 As a related information sharing um we. 09:39.990 --> 09:41.110 In my jurisdiction. 09:41.840 --> 09:45.950 Into share that that the charge. She did all that of the scheduling 09:45.950 --> 09:49.810 stuff is is pushed out because it's singing interest of all parties 09:49.810 --> 09:54.390 to prevented by two-incher than the one that the me everybody's 09:54.390 --> 09:59.690 inform their calendars and Um but that it's a predictability 09:59.690 --> 10:03.350 and expectation management I'm. Tool said. 10:03.930 --> 10:08.570 Um. Oh we've it it down and I the love organic or she she may have. 10:09.380 --> 10:09.730 I'll do. 10:10.360 --> 10:12.800 Um woo the mix your from lieutenant commander philip. 10:13.600 --> 10:14.270 The hammond. 10:15.630 --> 10:19.290 Uh get FDA than share justin bieber's. We've found that everybody 10:19.290 --> 10:22.560 is intended matter fill him. I'm currently serving is the senior 10:22.590 --> 10:25.830 drop outs. What the region legal service office mediation washington 10:26.200 --> 10:28.020 here in washington d.c. in the media. 10:28.720 --> 10:31.220 About the opportunity to really get sexual salt and other special 10:31.220 --> 10:34.250 victims' cases as both the defense council on the prosecutor 10:34.600 --> 10:38.470 as well as in the role than our 32 messy house or of also assess 10:38.470 --> 10:41.520 to devise a sexual sought and other special victims' cases in 10:41.520 --> 10:42.790 the role the staff to jacket. 10:43.430 --> 10:46.370 Of litigate cases both before and after the implementation of 10:46.370 --> 10:49.200 the victim with the council program and in cases within without 10:49.230 --> 10:50.150 legal counsel of all. 10:51.260 --> 10:54.500 As a prosecutor that I had very experiences with different the 10:54.500 --> 10:58.320 Aussie just like that but very experiences with different defense counsel. 10:58.960 --> 11:02.340 Each victim legal counsel whether baby military or civilian. 11:03.150 --> 11:05.810 He is unique in the way that they approach their cases. 11:06.620 --> 11:09.170 Their clients and their relationship with the prosecutors. 11:09.860 --> 11:12.640 That the opportunity to work with private civilian victim of 11:12.640 --> 11:14.760 the council as well as the various military kept. 11:15.840 --> 11:19.000 The vast majority of my interactions with the Aussie a victim 11:19.000 --> 11:20.640 legal counsel at the deposit. 11:21.200 --> 11:24.130 Uh they are highly professional and dedicated to their role as 11:24.130 --> 11:24.690 we'll see. 11:25.250 --> 11:31.580 Boom. A however than the introduction of the elsie has brought 11:31.580 --> 11:33.170 some new challenges to the prosecution. 11:33.890 --> 11:36.990 The first ever once once feel see is the signed in a case in 11:36.990 --> 11:38.170 my office is notified. 11:38.690 --> 11:42.790 A of that were education we no longer will ever directly contact that. 11:43.480 --> 11:47.370 We view them as a represent the party so all meetings and discussions 11:47.370 --> 11:51.190 all phone call a calls a our range through to be elsie. 11:51.860 --> 11:55.430 In my experience victims once assigned of yossi have a very good 11:55.430 --> 11:58.330 handle on their rights as well as on the process. 11:59.450 --> 12:00.940 The former prosecutors even that was that. 12:02.330 --> 12:04.060 Although the Dream. 12:04.670 --> 12:07.620 And from the biggest perspective information received in the 12:07.620 --> 12:12.310 process a about the process is a positive thing regardless theoretically 12:12.310 --> 12:15.790 of who's providing that information uh in my opinion when detriment 12:15.790 --> 12:19.450 or consequence of to the victim receiving that process information 12:19.450 --> 12:22.290 that basic information I'm from the the Aussie. 12:23.090 --> 12:26.330 Uh as opposed to the prosecutors to prosecute loses. What was 12:26.330 --> 12:30.470 a very powerful report building to a and getting and it can compete 12:30.470 --> 12:33.170 with the process of having a the contrast the prosecutor. 12:34.200 --> 12:37.800 For the implementation of yossi program. My routine and what 12:37.800 --> 12:41.190 I believe was 13 and protocol many needy prosecutors was to discuss 12:41.410 --> 12:45.240 almost nothing substantive in the initial meeting with evicted instead. 12:45.240 --> 12:48.790 I would introduce myself. But explain my role explain the process 12:48.790 --> 12:51.940 from beginning to end and I discussed victims rice writes an 12:51.940 --> 12:54.760 answer any questions that the victim have about the way ahead. 12:55.290 --> 12:58.740 Of now is a perhaps unintended consequence of the presence of 12:58.740 --> 12:59.420 we'll see. 13:00.020 --> 13:02.890 A a lot of them for building is taken away and not available 13:02.920 --> 13:06.030 to the prosecutor a there was a natural trust that was form between 13:06.030 --> 13:08.590 the victim and prosecutor when the prosecutor was that answer 13:08.590 --> 13:12.410 source um and now actually has a victim relies on trusted the 13:12.410 --> 13:13.690 I'll see a. 13:14.330 --> 13:15.860 They rely less on the. Prosecutor. 13:20.430 --> 13:23.940 We've heard testimony that today about of minor delays and in 13:23.940 --> 13:27.670 process as a result to the uh a process times as a result the 13:27.700 --> 13:31.360 we'll see a that I would know that that is a minor side effects 13:31.360 --> 13:34.020 that simply because supporting this could move one yet one more 13:34.020 --> 13:38.010 attorney does slow down the process um and during the initial 13:38.010 --> 13:40.660 screening even case our interviews with evicting need to be courting 13:40.800 --> 13:43.780 the veal see in all trout proceedings are scheduled with not 13:43.780 --> 13:46.840 only did the all see the veal sees its get one mind and I came 13:46.840 --> 13:51.730 up earlier a camels in my experience that we we if we do that 13:51.760 --> 13:55.690 the trial schedule is the krakow. So will consult with the deal 13:55.690 --> 13:58.990 seen before proposing a trial scheduled for the court. So we 13:59.330 --> 14:00.710 these in my space be heavily. 14:01.580 --> 14:04.740 Consult with you'll see a nation they are they'll all paroled dates. 14:05.360 --> 14:08.710 Uh. And my observation has been that the deal see that i've worked 14:08.710 --> 14:12.310 with having tremendously flexible but so uh I'm despite their 14:12.310 --> 14:16.200 best effort sometimes their availability is limited and us meetings 14:16.200 --> 14:18.180 and hearings here views can sometimes be delayed. 14:19.860 --> 14:23.790 Regarding refuse access to information as a matter practice uh 14:24.110 --> 14:27.880 uh in my practice we provide the victim amid the elsie with all 14:27.880 --> 14:28.640 scheduling or. 14:29.190 --> 14:32.590 The charge she and any statements made by the victim to crudity 14:32.590 --> 14:35.530 summers of interviews a never summarise by investigators. 14:36.530 --> 14:40.450 And we also provide all for 12 or 14 of by 13 motions along with 14:40.450 --> 14:41.940 any in closures that were attached. 14:42.730 --> 14:47.480 Uh. Both of the filings Buyout by defence counsel swells. Our responses. 14:48.340 --> 14:51.620 And we have depending on circumstances a provided additional 14:51.620 --> 14:53.830 information on a case by case bases a. 14:54.890 --> 14:56.230 Depending on the circumstances. 14:57.100 --> 15:01.060 A imposing the purpose of the Aussie in my opinion is not to 15:01.060 --> 15:05.460 assist the prosecution sometimes be Aussie can and does assessed 15:05.740 --> 15:08.360 when the interests are alive and sometimes protecting victims' 15:08.360 --> 15:11.470 rights has the clout of benefit of assisting the prosecution. 15:12.400 --> 15:15.560 But this is not always the case regarding veal see in victim 15:15.560 --> 15:19.110 access to information and the role of the ossie in the core my 15:19.110 --> 15:23.790 personal concern that is that we may be shifting a. Along the 15:23.790 --> 15:27.580 spectrum of from that they can be. Of the spectrum of the witness 15:27.580 --> 15:30.740 to party from the victim becoming less of a witness and work 15:30.740 --> 15:34.990 hard and that could create perception and I'm a perception that 15:34.990 --> 15:36.430 could be exploited by the defense. 15:37.160 --> 15:40.210 To attack the credibility of the victim as an inherently biased 15:40.210 --> 15:43.670 party the visually unassisted too much information could be perceived 15:43.670 --> 15:46.360 as an inappropriate coaching of a with its for profit. 15:47.150 --> 15:50.400 In my personal experience. Maybe prosecutors are flexible unable 15:50.400 --> 15:53.660 to just to change we have adjusted our continuing to work. 15:53.660 --> 15:57.050 We'll see to make the program a success was pasta one not losing 15:57.050 --> 16:00.320 sight of our ultimate goal which is obtaining justice in every 16:00.320 --> 16:01.940 case whatever that may be. 16:03.190 --> 16:05.810 Um I before contain aggression and 16:07.130 --> 16:09.600 Thank you very much. Well let's hear from you. 16:10.260 --> 16:13.910 Um majored oversee hacked us marine corps. 16:14.590 --> 16:17.330 Yeah and very rare and is the most panel members that he for 16:17.410 --> 16:18.940 hopkins he here today. 16:19.610 --> 16:23.840 A yemeni was made that actions senior cockroach krakow soul and 16:23.880 --> 16:27.590 that I work aboard canned pumpkin fell one. Yeah I remember it 16:27.590 --> 16:30.930 all triple a S west virtually regional organization. So I actually 16:31.290 --> 16:34.470 litigate cases throughout the region which would include care 16:34.500 --> 16:35.010 about them. 16:35.580 --> 16:39.510 Uh and series san diego with were stationed there more a crime 16:39.570 --> 16:40.730 bosses won't human. 16:41.450 --> 16:42.140 Uh so. 16:43.420 --> 16:47.940 It never gonna every don't lasted upwards of all of the of seasons people. 16:48.980 --> 16:52.370 I'm a little bit about my experience that to get there and put 16:52.370 --> 16:54.030 some of my consul in perspective. 16:54.550 --> 16:59.140 The past few now here's a libyan that it's really special victims' cases. 16:59.650 --> 17:03.200 Prayer that I had about five or six years the experience as a 17:03.200 --> 17:07.640 trial counsel for a my career in the and the opportunity intro 17:07.640 --> 17:11.720 which to prosecute bowl special victims' bases in the past as well. 17:13.820 --> 17:17.500 Of regarding appeals. You korean indicate killer a much to my 17:17.500 --> 17:18.930 surprise a. 17:19.680 --> 17:23.820 It is the new instrument because the life in the are getting 17:23.860 --> 17:26.940 that prosecutors in the region can defeat away for this program 17:26.940 --> 17:31.090 did not pass. A thankfully it would have and eat some Crow a 17:31.120 --> 17:34.840 those who were predicting that this would be a that essentially a. 17:36.230 --> 17:37.390 In our get us a. 17:38.120 --> 17:41.250 Um. And it isn't just passes here moment. 17:41.840 --> 17:45.980 I'm in my experience the um it is might be just personal me a 17:46.060 --> 17:48.860 most that them 70 was initially did not have the awesome. 17:49.490 --> 17:53.510 I do and cursed that I didn't know that in my region uh he at 17:53.510 --> 17:57.650 least and say yes investigators are four to five that with information 17:57.650 --> 18:01.940 about the LCD um the the ossie program. I don't purge that not 18:01.940 --> 18:06.260 all my victims to melt the cells of of the Aussie program in 18:06.740 --> 18:09.460 the might be a good for for a question about my personal thing 18:09.460 --> 18:13.340 on as to what it is I don't have any uh thinking of the anecdotal 18:13.340 --> 18:14.200 bend my knee. 18:15.000 --> 18:21.880 Um. For the summer of me. I'm gonna be a houses difference on 18:21.880 --> 18:25.780 the dry grass that of he'd be. Sure because I'm can't bring him 18:25.780 --> 18:28.890 and actually covered most of what I was gonna say that communication 18:28.890 --> 18:30.060 piece candied prowl. 18:30.690 --> 18:34.850 A Especially with my Barber wrote special product. Once once 18:34.850 --> 18:38.310 somebody is represented right. I can I I cannot about the the 18:38.310 --> 18:39.400 computer awesome. 18:40.000 --> 18:40.950 And back in. 18:41.570 --> 18:45.880 Do a whiffier question submitted incomplete pass onto a victim 18:45.880 --> 18:46.420 the past. 18:46.970 --> 18:50.910 Or a phone call and and that was it that now I have to go through 18:50.950 --> 18:51.730 another party. 18:52.280 --> 18:58.520 I'm In it in practice big net that we're from in addition a non-owners entirely. 18:58.520 --> 19:02.670 Sure that what I want today is be in that way I want to be that. 19:03.440 --> 19:07.240 Uh and That's something you didn't insurmountable right that 19:07.240 --> 19:11.390 I had been carried out by ensuring that you spend time with vivid 19:11.390 --> 19:14.380 in the presence of their veal seating they things the way that 19:14.380 --> 19:17.490 I think that he conveyed from the respective of a prosecutor. 19:18.430 --> 19:22.240 CEO john again. I'll play with that when the going that private 19:22.240 --> 19:22.910 throughout the day. 19:23.570 --> 19:24.200 A big. 19:24.720 --> 19:27.960 Problem actors london out with dish jekyll. What that does is 19:27.960 --> 19:32.030 certainly I think is on the horizon. No hanging on nation case. 19:32.530 --> 19:36.190 Intonation BNC of I think you know what is saying that disagreements 19:36.190 --> 19:38.600 over the prosecution prosecutions dredging. 19:39.280 --> 19:42.140 And that comes to pass than that. 19:42.980 --> 19:45.480 Right I see the potential of creating friction between. 19:46.020 --> 19:49.460 The victim in the case who like many duties there's a prosecutor 19:49.740 --> 19:50.500 and myself. 19:51.160 --> 19:55.270 And at a base on that that disagreement over strategy and it 19:55.300 --> 19:59.290 all the way of prosper that's michael papa feels sees can I haven't 19:59.290 --> 20:01.960 seen that yet thankfully that the very good is something that's 20:02.000 --> 20:05.600 bowels on should build over relationships new restores bills 20:05.600 --> 20:07.410 dealing with the with other activists. 20:08.880 --> 20:11.380 In my dear station information sharing his does not prove. 20:12.020 --> 20:15.990 Yeah a but I do concurred with time. It's a earlier today that 20:15.990 --> 20:20.800 we were so many full uniform rules regulations that or so the 20:20.800 --> 20:24.320 question about that that doesn't rely as a dozen lectures and 20:24.320 --> 20:26.290 channels and partly bumpers. Relationship. 20:28.820 --> 20:32.580 So that the drawbacks that I cited are also for wasn't something 20:32.610 --> 20:34.390 we can overcome happen now. 20:36.220 --> 20:40.780 Uh yes the and that the permanent callers reveal see it in our 20:40.780 --> 20:44.790 system is a force multiplier the the Aussie helps to explain 20:44.890 --> 20:48.860 that to the victims MeeGo concepts and machinations of the legal 20:49.040 --> 20:53.130 says that the justice system that maybe I explain them are ready 20:53.130 --> 20:54.420 for the dire pee. 20:54.980 --> 20:58.870 But what I'm saying is I can be heard the same way uh that as 20:58.870 --> 21:00.740 a victim here's a from their own. Counsel. 21:02.780 --> 21:06.140 The in the messy. It's the giving after hearing it in a from 21:06.140 --> 21:09.960 their own counsel because as a prosecutor I find is V-neck States. 21:10.240 --> 21:14.220 I duties the jesse is that it duties that them about visions 21:14.290 --> 21:17.850 for the from but because of the nature of my mission and make 21:17.850 --> 21:21.500 sure that beauties. I was by necessity back to the victim. 21:21.500 --> 21:22.750 It's somewhat of an arms was. 21:23.300 --> 21:24.480 Just the nature of the beans. 21:25.090 --> 21:28.270 And it's a good thing that we had in a bowl where the does not 21:28.270 --> 21:31.860 have the same concerns that the state of the victim and that 21:31.890 --> 21:32.450 the rights. 21:33.100 --> 21:36.470 Again they'd be pretty arcane speed through the for your work. 21:36.920 --> 21:41.880 Thank you very much I'm for makes here from um made your brent 21:41.880 --> 21:43.340 jones us air force. 21:44.470 --> 21:48.150 Thinking man was a major thing kit kat chair. Distinguish man 21:48.200 --> 21:51.640 members of handle. Good afternoon and I'm a major bring genomes 21:51.670 --> 21:54.960 I'm a a senior trial counsel stationed a here in the local area 21:54.960 --> 21:56.350 joined a Sanders Maryland. 21:56.890 --> 22:00.360 I'm occur at least are in the job as senior trial counsel for 22:00.360 --> 22:04.460 a almost two years of prior that I was a defense counsel at travis 22:04.460 --> 22:05.130 air force base. 22:05.690 --> 22:10.170 And in been these past two years. I'm I'm a special victims unit prosecutors. 22:10.170 --> 22:14.130 Well um. I know over. The course of the past several months um 22:14.520 --> 22:18.350 um you folks have talked to numerous folks from the are forcing 22:18.350 --> 22:22.030 others and 18 senior trial counsel and the way the air force worse. 22:22.030 --> 22:26.070 We we essentially under station all over the world um and we 22:26.100 --> 22:30.730 we Rowland the trial as the drop council. I'm in the most of 22:30.730 --> 22:34.120 my cases that do I am the a. 22:35.120 --> 22:38.340 III it involves sexual Saul some type of sexual saw case. 22:38.690 --> 22:43.460 I'm over the past over the past two years um. I've tried approximately 22:43.460 --> 22:47.390 40 courts martial um in most of which involves sexual assault 22:47.390 --> 22:51.820 cases um and over those last two years I work on almost every 22:51.820 --> 22:56.140 case with a special victims' castle um. So these days a. 22:56.870 --> 23:00.700 When when I'm a trying these cases we work hand in hand hand 23:00.700 --> 23:05.480 in hand um beer for such a is is thinly no way for led the way 23:05.480 --> 23:09.420 in the special victims' council program and I'm him and I think 23:09.420 --> 23:12.040 we're doing axel F X. One jot um. 23:12.560 --> 23:15.910 Our working relationship with the special victims' council is 23:15.910 --> 23:16.960 extremely pasta. 23:17.510 --> 23:23.750 Um. Essentially it he uh it into the trial um. I provided of 23:23.750 --> 23:27.510 might leadership with feedback on all parties from the case including 23:27.510 --> 23:31.900 the special victims' council um and uh we have a great relationship 23:31.900 --> 23:35.400 with special victims' council. I'm headquarters as well and so 23:35.400 --> 23:39.170 my leadership talks with them about issues that we see a trout I'm. 23:39.690 --> 23:48.000 Now. One positive change um in again uh I cp SCC program is is 23:48.070 --> 23:49.510 positive um. 23:50.060 --> 23:54.310 It. Overwhelmingly positive but the big is changed. I've seen 23:54.310 --> 23:56.750 the SCC program in my um. 23:57.340 --> 24:01.360 In my ears now litigation experience in your forces um. 24:02.650 --> 24:06.050 Every single case that I see it involves sexual Saul. Then has 24:06.050 --> 24:07.460 a victim. Um. 24:10.100 --> 24:11.000 The uh back. 24:11.580 --> 24:17.820 I'm on the victim images of digest this process. Um the is is 24:17.920 --> 24:22.210 extremely grave that I'm the it's really what he it's extremely 24:22.210 --> 24:25.880 bright the of that that they the judicial process has on the 24:25.880 --> 24:30.120 victim and I'm being has a great effect on them um where the 24:30.150 --> 24:35.990 SCC programs helped is it's help that person to the of understand 24:35.990 --> 24:40.110 the process get comfortable with processed. I'm a understand 24:40.110 --> 24:43.720 the legal issues in the process um the has seen the seat pariah 24:43.750 --> 24:47.210 that person with an attorney to help them get through the process 24:47.610 --> 24:52.120 um and we have that before I'm that at like major Hess said we're 24:52.120 --> 24:56.480 a who were dual had it um we're we're prosecutor were prosecuting 24:56.480 --> 25:00.820 the case. But we're also um we do have a victim air in in this 25:00.820 --> 25:05.780 way um we have a council this victim has a council um to to stick 25:05.780 --> 25:07.290 up for them um and be there. 25:08.140 --> 25:09.610 And Of course. 25:10.110 --> 25:14.140 I'm I do one of save as um. 25:15.920 --> 25:21.300 V. There is a great difference. I see in the victims. Um. 25:27.150 --> 25:30.480 Earlier forced us VC's do an excellent job of preparing a client 25:30.480 --> 25:34.920 for the process. I'm so that we can win at the 25:36.710 --> 25:40.750 Negative impact on adjusts process has I'm a victim I'm so I'll 25:40.750 --> 25:41.420 be. A. 25:44.160 --> 25:45.450 I welcome a questions the yeah. 25:45.960 --> 25:46.840 Thank you very right. 25:48.090 --> 25:51.210 Arrest deficit there will be lieutenant jeff Lucy boredom. 25:52.040 --> 25:53.600 We can think you can compete. 25:54.540 --> 25:57.830 They can Madam shares which panel members by for the option prison 25:57.860 --> 26:01.700 today Holman amos lieutenant. Jeff foremen with that are start 26:02.020 --> 26:04.490 the trial counsel with the first part of its district. 26:05.000 --> 26:08.190 Which has responsibility for the democratic States prior to that 26:08.190 --> 26:11.700 I was a legal service command. We supported of all of the support 26:11.700 --> 26:13.420 commands instant the rocket runs. 26:15.390 --> 26:18.650 But with being introduction of about another war or were the 26:18.680 --> 26:22.190 court martial the process of cross trading session. So it's mike 26:22.190 --> 26:23.740 cannot and did not remain static. 26:24.350 --> 26:29.350 In some ways in in fact many ways it was a up as a pastas a impact 26:29.350 --> 26:32.790 is the species for possible impact and other ways innovation 26:32.790 --> 26:34.390 challenges and maybe some dark comes. 26:34.920 --> 26:38.430 From the same to perspective there's there's trout council and 26:38.430 --> 26:42.160 effective SCC understands. The goals of his or her corn most 26:42.160 --> 26:45.530 are dress just process and wears feces rolled across ones. 26:46.220 --> 26:50.030 Converse when if he has to see fails to understand his or her 26:50.030 --> 26:54.990 core goals were fails to advise in the impact of the the client's 26:54.990 --> 26:58.640 actions on the outcome of a case a yes he's he's actions can 26:58.640 --> 26:59.450 be detrimental. 27:00.600 --> 27:04.860 About to expand on someway stains um rating. Many that some of 27:04.860 --> 27:08.470 the pastas interactions on lake markers or too many. 27:09.080 --> 27:13.100 Of the base of all a and SCC really is the trial counsel of Din 27:13.100 --> 27:17.250 each for five minutes minutes support of the victim witness um 27:17.250 --> 27:20.590 the during the try our the article 32 and SCC can ensure the 27:20.590 --> 27:21.720 victim is presents. 27:22.400 --> 27:26.200 Profited tired preparing to and israel to answer any questions 27:26.200 --> 27:28.780 that come up a through a process. 27:29.690 --> 27:33.120 Um. And then of course that frees the trout council to focus 27:33.150 --> 27:35.300 on a prosecuting case. 27:36.590 --> 27:40.560 Uh is also a huge benefit to be able to speak frankly with another 27:40.560 --> 27:44.650 attorney about the strengths or weaknesses of the case and have 27:44.650 --> 27:47.940 that other try me explain in a very proper actual fashion too. 27:48.510 --> 27:50.130 Far and I'm about. 27:50.880 --> 27:54.590 I'm about the sex weaknesses in the case without having the specter 27:54.590 --> 27:58.520 of our government tried to persuade were display the victim from 27:58.520 --> 27:59.690 proceeding one where the other. 28:01.820 --> 28:04.770 Course there's also been sometimes where it has to seize have 28:04.770 --> 28:08.660 got a setback prosecutions either by failing to understand the 28:08.660 --> 28:11.570 quest goals with a motor justice process. 28:12.830 --> 28:16.900 In my pinning the SCC just not me to zone mostly assert every 28:16.970 --> 28:21.850 single one of his or her core rights especially when asserting 28:21.850 --> 28:22.370 the right. 28:22.880 --> 28:26.340 Five peppers the overall goal of a successful prosecution. 28:27.950 --> 28:30.330 I'd like to refer to majored tony's a. 28:30.980 --> 28:34.620 Testimony earlier today about the Issue of the new knitting for 28:34.620 --> 28:35.510 underage drinking. 28:36.110 --> 28:40.140 Uh as a mr. Stone noted that the issue of immunity can come up 28:40.310 --> 28:44.450 and damaged the victims credibility on the larger a case of rape 28:44.450 --> 28:48.290 or sexual salt a as opposed to doing with the relatively minor 28:48.710 --> 28:50.710 the situation of of underage drinking. 28:51.870 --> 28:56.050 A good at this we see him while I understand and explain the 28:56.520 --> 29:00.380 up benefits and costs of a particular passive action to record 29:00.860 --> 29:04.400 um and in some cases of the poor SCC will just widely assert 29:04.400 --> 29:04.760 the right. 29:07.160 --> 29:11.360 To be re mess of I did not mention this PC's impact farming a 29:11.360 --> 29:14.490 truck cross olympics relationship for seven weighing attempt 29:14.490 --> 29:17.860 when a hand in hand with theory it was horrible a. 29:18.500 --> 29:22.050 Just to stand by and I look for the answering the petals questions 29:22.130 --> 29:22.690 that you are injured. 29:23.630 --> 29:25.530 Mover welcome thanks to all of you again. 29:26.160 --> 29:28.180 I'm from a started tuesday to. 29:29.300 --> 29:33.110 Um first of all like you over much richest on your died a house. 29:33.670 --> 29:35.190 If I made a Co worker. 29:35.910 --> 29:40.550 And and ask you how concerned you are as captain robin said earlier 29:40.550 --> 29:43.920 today that that too many. Yeah species don't really have the 29:43.960 --> 29:47.120 professional experience as a truck ouch lord of french council 29:47.120 --> 29:48.010 can do their. Jobs. 29:50.990 --> 29:51.900 Answer it. Be. 29:54.440 --> 29:58.650 One would-be. The individuals were placed to know there was an 29:58.650 --> 30:02.050 at this position was are smart and have the ability to it. 30:03.090 --> 30:08.980 Um. They have the ability to reach out to um the technical training. 30:09.580 --> 30:10.890 And to get some advice. 30:11.470 --> 30:13.750 But to answer your question. How concerned I am. 30:14.390 --> 30:17.890 The the my love will concern does not rise to love will cap on. 30:18.630 --> 30:21.500 What I and we will my experiences ban is then. 30:22.020 --> 30:23.480 I'm all of the move. 30:24.140 --> 30:24.520 It that. 30:25.150 --> 30:27.630 Their particular experience military justice. 30:28.160 --> 30:29.300 Maybe the women to it. 30:31.310 --> 30:34.530 Base me stiller attorneys asserting the right spare climb. 30:35.070 --> 30:38.430 History because in the prosecutions case. Maybe of it affected 30:38.430 --> 30:39.230 are impacted. 30:39.850 --> 30:43.500 That the sensing portion of the case because of really successful 30:43.500 --> 30:47.650 five 13 my action which precludes the government from speaking 30:47.650 --> 30:49.740 on my health related impact. 30:50.340 --> 30:57.450 Um. I don't think that it completely hampered the prosecution 30:57.930 --> 31:04.150 it may hampered the intent of their client. I'm wanting to what ace. 31:04.810 --> 31:07.110 How it has impacted on on them. 31:07.720 --> 31:11.580 Um. Be the violation of the mid setter. 31:12.170 --> 31:13.740 Um but is a relates to. 31:14.960 --> 31:17.850 The impact on prosecution in the process. Itself. 31:19.760 --> 31:21.420 I'm not as concerned I would say. 31:21.940 --> 31:26.290 Are so many other members to about reduced as Q generally a does 31:26.290 --> 31:29.600 the presence of in experienced as feces make it harder for you 31:29.640 --> 31:30.240 do your job. 31:32.150 --> 31:33.440 Do what common on that. 31:35.290 --> 31:38.570 Yes or double a overhaul would greer said commenting and in the 31:38.570 --> 31:42.850 speaking with my trial counsel I'm. Around the country a that 31:42.850 --> 31:46.340 that has been graced his mission. It's not know would ever agree 31:46.340 --> 31:50.420 without the other german come out quote with mock or that's a 31:50.870 --> 31:54.550 uh I think it's it's not an insurmountable issue. But it does 31:54.550 --> 31:55.490 present some problems. 31:56.720 --> 32:00.410 So all about watching this was a question to the in TARP battle imbalance. 32:00.960 --> 32:05.730 Of or you'd better off or worse off with the escpecially innovation 32:05.730 --> 32:09.520 the a program the Aussie programs excuse but in terms of doing 32:09.520 --> 32:13.150 your job as a prosecutor a she said to obtain. Gestures. 32:15.350 --> 32:19.560 It has it that is is about a bounce and uh you know. 32:20.210 --> 32:22.380 In the end of this doesn't really matter whether they started 32:22.380 --> 32:25.300 is you're not for that matter is our our job. 32:26.060 --> 32:30.060 Is made easier in some respects with difficult. So that now sell 32:30.090 --> 32:34.210 now and in Yankee hat in it and it's better than take care of 32:34.350 --> 32:37.660 insists that the best that's when the the in Kuwait. 32:38.300 --> 32:41.110 The elation Friedman pay that is not only are they one elsewhere 32:41.110 --> 32:45.590 common on the tickle is surf I might I'm harder to be the john. 32:46.870 --> 32:49.880 I think it's a matter of being relieved of some of the control 32:49.880 --> 32:51.360 that we previously had. 32:52.050 --> 32:57.310 Um personalities that at clay uh. It's been my experience of 32:57.310 --> 33:00.890 the Persian around a eases if everybody is a packing klee deal 33:00.890 --> 33:05.150 man all manner with did the same content and recognition of of 33:05.150 --> 33:05.880 the process. 33:07.060 --> 33:10.630 And we're good show I'd one sayeed it makes the job part. 33:11.840 --> 33:14.680 Or bijou all for being here on friday afternoon that there was 33:14.680 --> 33:16.740 no do I think a major. 33:17.450 --> 33:22.060 Gets a little contest to respond to that you know it about the winter. 33:22.850 --> 33:23.330 Look at that. 33:24.300 --> 33:26.150 I didn't show us um. 33:27.130 --> 33:27.860 Can I go back. 33:29.430 --> 33:34.090 Commander having to you and you're talking of the Many things 33:34.090 --> 33:37.590 that you turn out and for notes of that you've made that was 33:37.590 --> 33:41.810 to be and you know I think I think what you say it is certainly 33:41.850 --> 33:44.800 the than the than oceans the notices hearings. 33:45.530 --> 33:47.090 Pleading with him after thing. 33:48.230 --> 33:49.300 Generally go over. 33:50.050 --> 33:54.090 Yes it so the generally what we turn over a are be charge. 33:54.090 --> 33:58.040 She won't be any statements that were made by the victim about 33:58.350 --> 34:01.250 whether they vs summer a was david was in the desert in terms 34:01.250 --> 34:05.560 of the victim. So that the victim for me as A as well as a a 34:05.560 --> 34:09.940 scantily Moore's order by the court and sentenced informal scheduling workers. 34:09.940 --> 34:10.870 He now says such. 34:11.720 --> 34:13.770 Modifications get it will also provide for that. 34:14.420 --> 34:18.290 Right the human disdain british of what I would call discovering 34:18.530 --> 34:22.040 from from what you give of are correct that they are not. 34:22.820 --> 34:27.690 I guess routinely there's no will requiring them to get over 34:27.740 --> 34:31.540 the reports of the investigation the statements of other witnesses. 34:32.050 --> 34:35.960 And and in the normal course is that right that's practitioner 34:35.960 --> 34:39.010 will require you to turn them over and there's no will for dating 34:39.260 --> 34:43.000 carry certain. He's the to compete as well so so what's manohar 34:43.000 --> 34:43.890 somehow practice. 34:44.660 --> 34:48.210 A new can counties case by case. But what is right is the case 34:48.320 --> 34:51.870 and the first one practice guns that we're all we will um. 34:53.080 --> 34:56.260 When I see any in a state visit anything that we think that the 34:56.260 --> 35:00.160 deal see should know for example that became over epic came from 35:00.160 --> 35:04.310 a for an earlier panel um if there is potentially for 12 material 35:04.310 --> 35:06.640 or something that may come up this for probity are of that another 35:06.640 --> 35:10.690 witness sat um. We may provide that information to be the I'll 35:10.690 --> 35:14.600 see from one of movie provide the actual state you have her which 35:14.600 --> 35:18.080 you just provide the information it it. We defend than a indie 35:18.080 --> 35:18.580 bouts that. 35:19.490 --> 35:23.100 The move in my practice more like who just provide the information. 35:23.660 --> 35:26.020 And and discuss that with the the elsie because often the same 35:26.020 --> 35:28.970 includes far more than that one piece of information. 35:30.410 --> 35:34.660 And I met yes I'm waite is 40 usually that comes in the form 35:34.660 --> 35:38.380 of enough for 12 motion a is an attachment to the for 12 motion 35:38.620 --> 35:41.950 to typically we will provide the entire for 12 motion and the 35:41.950 --> 35:45.510 attachments to the motion and I'm in our response to the most 35:45.720 --> 35:49.530 and and your singing in their defense councelor Sydney in the 35:49.530 --> 35:53.840 statements mess to support the for 12 in from yes may so they're 35:53.870 --> 35:58.220 send generally speaking are almost always been the victim witness 35:58.220 --> 36:02.230 will get that. Yes name but that but the concerns also so I'm 36:02.440 --> 36:06.210 really liking of what 's um. If you're providing other witness 36:06.210 --> 36:07.600 statements to. 36:08.120 --> 36:10.900 It witnesses are seeing other witnesses statements it could affect 36:10.900 --> 36:13.740 their testimony. I'm not not saying they would make something 36:13.740 --> 36:16.470 out that it could affect their testimony has been a minute into 36:16.470 --> 36:21.960 ashes as a general rule wouldn't mean you routinely provide investigation 36:21.960 --> 36:25.940 reports are other witnesses testimony or statements to. 36:26.880 --> 36:28.700 The victim witness or any other when. 36:29.860 --> 36:30.360 No man. 36:31.660 --> 36:35.470 Thanks. I'm just gonna thank you. 36:36.530 --> 36:41.100 Okay. Huh um I gather woodley is a more would cases that i've 36:41.100 --> 36:43.650 seen there's always some kind of a defense motion. 36:44.270 --> 36:47.590 Um what about the defense motions off of call the lotion a suppressed 36:47.590 --> 36:48.780 use supply bellows. 36:49.550 --> 36:51.810 Uh connect them. The victim camp. 36:53.820 --> 36:57.680 The surgeon david are practice we we'd supply AOL motions fending 36:57.680 --> 37:02.420 closures regarding emirates by the teen for 12 or 14 but not 37:02.420 --> 37:06.200 in general lotions did not provide on motions to to get it. 37:06.550 --> 37:10.800 Right so and I guess mari question then as why don't to provide 37:10.800 --> 37:13.890 that motion to suppress. What what's the reason for don't from 37:13.890 --> 37:15.080 fine added early. Today. 37:21.580 --> 37:24.860 Right there there's no particular reason that there's no reason 37:24.860 --> 37:26.220 why we we. 37:26.750 --> 37:29.500 Your role it's as we can there's no way we can it's just been 37:29.500 --> 37:32.980 our practice that we that we don't see any reason as a to discuss 37:32.980 --> 37:34.730 and we had earlier about whether we have an open. 37:35.250 --> 37:38.610 Docket and provide all violence to ever one. It's it's just their 37:38.610 --> 37:42.560 practice that we we don't and that in the new changes that we provide. 37:43.180 --> 37:48.420 Uh. For 12 with five 13 motions to be a a C the motions before 37:48.710 --> 37:50.600 for provide that all to the team efficient. 37:51.760 --> 37:55.850 Well I guess this fan distant places that I'm a welcome anybody 37:55.850 --> 37:57.820 is that for the report on that's. 37:58.600 --> 38:02.050 There was a tremendous amount of media coverage of the sexual 38:02.050 --> 38:05.170 assault cases a little more than a year ago open naval academy. 38:06.080 --> 38:07.130 Um but 38:08.780 --> 38:12.100 People including lawyers like myself have no way seeing the actual 38:12.160 --> 38:16.430 pleading use should we acquired that you have an electronic docket 38:16.770 --> 38:21.500 local meetings not just go we've with pleading was far uploaded 38:21.820 --> 38:24.680 to the doctor just like they aren't every other case other people 38:24.680 --> 38:27.200 wanna see the pleading thereafter wide on what. 38:27.760 --> 38:31.520 The media clear said about the case but they can can look at 38:31.520 --> 38:34.600 the plate it did to win a case like Apple wine interest that 38:34.600 --> 38:36.310 broke results and no convictions. 38:36.980 --> 38:40.670 Sir might pursue looking using that I as a prosecutor wouldn't 38:40.730 --> 38:43.690 object to that I wouldn't have any problem with having been divided 38:43.800 --> 38:46.890 up with it's just the fact is that we were currently set up to do. 38:48.090 --> 38:51.520 Toronto I think we're get mash transparency. Eerily said to the 38:51.520 --> 38:53.960 that's when reading I'm in. 38:54.740 --> 38:58.090 Has has been stated and just what is our normal practice where 38:58.090 --> 39:00.760 you can and will probably a little behind the power curve is 39:00.760 --> 39:01.460 a really steve. 39:01.970 --> 39:07.260 Federal filings and and all of that. I'm But 39:08.720 --> 39:10.500 A I don't think that they're. 39:11.150 --> 39:13.350 Excuse me is a thing that prevented. 39:14.120 --> 39:18.810 They just we've we operate I'm pretty much just like any other 39:18.840 --> 39:23.640 agency institution etc that I'm your government rules new follows 39:23.640 --> 39:26.030 roles and if there's something more that you. 39:26.600 --> 39:31.610 Um. But if you don't have to do than why would you. 39:32.140 --> 39:32.860 So I I came. 39:33.400 --> 39:37.100 In and I see your eyebrow. So we go up but it made relates to 39:37.130 --> 39:40.700 what you're used to and which are familiar with versus the folks 39:40.700 --> 39:44.390 on this pin on what we're used to unfamiliar with so the response 39:44.390 --> 39:47.640 is that we will give you a provide use that we've we're familiar 39:47.640 --> 39:51.840 with this project. What practice that that doesn't disclose um 39:51.980 --> 39:55.850 all of our pleading. No reference up loading and so that it can 39:55.850 --> 39:59.950 be viewed far those individuals outside of the project in that case. 40:00.430 --> 40:05.380 I'm made of be beneficial um to public it partially power CNN. 40:05.410 --> 40:06.070 If you will. 40:07.340 --> 40:11.930 I don't know that I'm that person to to make that call I I personally 40:11.930 --> 40:14.560 don't have an interest in and um. 40:15.980 --> 40:17.890 Even outside of of my cases. 40:18.420 --> 40:22.590 Um what is a relates to my cases and I'm missing miss assent 40:22.590 --> 40:26.390 to the gentleman of currency than before you uh we operate within 40:26.390 --> 40:29.310 the confines that that we're prison and and how we are. 40:29.900 --> 40:32.520 How we grew up as has been the stated earlier. 40:33.410 --> 40:36.330 But as I mentioned earlier but you may not of any a fork one 40:36.330 --> 40:37.520 of the catchments we got. 40:38.540 --> 40:43.130 Um and ah packet to today that was enough global one 20 fourteen. 40:43.670 --> 40:46.210 I'm a director from the key jet. 40:46.940 --> 40:48.710 That said that dab if. 40:49.280 --> 40:50.700 Victim council wanted. 40:51.400 --> 40:53.820 Additional documents that we're gonna have to guess for them. 40:54.620 --> 40:59.400 By means of the freedom of information act and I'm a a a according. 40:59.900 --> 41:02.860 To what's allow by the privacy act. I'm here or any of you fall 41:02.860 --> 41:07.780 I'd say that that's what keeps you from disturbing knows documents 41:07.810 --> 41:11.390 up you don't have to comment on it but but I'm curious to know 41:11.390 --> 41:15.030 and every guinea duet the had freedom of information act of privacy 41:15.030 --> 41:19.540 at objections to disturbing up when growth because I don't really understand. 41:20.100 --> 41:24.050 Poses limitations upon a legal documents unaffected quite understand why. 41:24.710 --> 41:27.300 It's it's the listed that way. 41:28.710 --> 41:32.530 As a really said particular and and we emitter Street of all 41:32.820 --> 41:37.700 a determination of how the the Documents will be disclose. 41:37.700 --> 41:41.260 No I don't have any specific comment on that I have had people 41:41.260 --> 41:42.980 ask me for documents. 41:43.520 --> 41:47.810 You know during an ongoing investigation. I'm pretty even after 41:47.810 --> 41:51.720 the conclusion of the trial and that has been the response that 41:52.170 --> 41:53.400 I have given them. 41:55.310 --> 41:58.740 Our I'm here with russian. I have where chairman partner who 41:58.740 --> 42:02.830 start with the uh to 10 minutes to hammond because she was talking 42:02.830 --> 42:04.080 about that maybe. 42:04.720 --> 42:07.470 It will a couple of you were so the sometimes it's a problem 42:07.640 --> 42:11.500 working with victims cap not always perfect I'm more shirted fate. 42:11.850 --> 42:16.330 I'm I'm aware spam a we heard a suggestion that maybe would help 42:16.330 --> 42:19.960 you of that was an amendment to article six to be a that specifically 42:19.960 --> 42:23.070 said you retain prosecute dordogne discretion. None are wondered 42:23.070 --> 42:27.860 whether any of you felt you needed that forward the because you're 42:27.860 --> 42:30.610 prestige tour of stretch has been impaired by what's happened. 42:30.990 --> 42:34.910 We'll whether that uh is is it is not a priority for for you 42:34.910 --> 42:36.640 so much of kinda like your comments on them. 42:37.200 --> 42:40.780 Yeah sure I I have been found that in the presence of the elsie 42:40.810 --> 42:41.520 has affected. 42:42.050 --> 42:45.730 My perception my procedural discretion. We we have a different 42:45.730 --> 42:48.540 system as you know so that I don't have into I don't have prospered 42:48.540 --> 42:52.090 tour of discretion really in that fight I will make a recommendation 42:52.090 --> 42:55.050 convenient Doherty discuss the merits of the case of the meaning 42:55.050 --> 42:58.120 of 14 that will make that decision and now there's the added 42:58.120 --> 43:03.020 piece of the sea law. So we'll we'll give their their position 43:03.080 --> 43:06.590 provide their positions bikini thirty's. Well to doesn't it is 43:06.590 --> 43:07.140 one more. 43:07.670 --> 43:12.230 Voice for bikini a 40 but I don't view it as affecting a my discretion. 43:12.830 --> 43:15.960 Yeah sure that they just didn't inherit in england of the bill 43:15.960 --> 43:19.530 the prosecutor the built of the ah citizens uh. Oh it would be 43:19.560 --> 43:21.380 necessary and it's. 43:22.060 --> 43:26.520 It. Sorry just some with we may we make impressive though decisions 43:26.520 --> 43:28.040 of it is really respects belted. 43:28.570 --> 43:31.640 Out cases get prosecuted with the Aussie from provider and but. 43:32.240 --> 43:34.880 But they're not representing the United States and they don't 43:34.880 --> 43:38.520 make a decision that matches the way. It is in the many more. Ginger. 43:44.390 --> 43:44.910 It's very what. 43:45.470 --> 43:50.130 Um. One of you suggested to that of in that if you asked. 43:50.740 --> 43:52.210 About why some victims reject. 43:53.030 --> 43:55.510 The special victims' council. You tell us so. 43:56.300 --> 43:59.640 Yeah yes minnows me in this is just anecdotal and I think you 43:59.640 --> 44:01.570 victims that at the end of. 44:02.560 --> 44:05.520 Uh I would characterize it as rejecting. It is not beyond. 44:05.520 --> 44:09.280 So lovable can and that this is my personal union the based on 44:09.280 --> 44:11.790 my interactions the victim's father of. 44:12.330 --> 44:16.990 Waves for post the three is a marine corps first for um but the 44:16.990 --> 44:18.180 the on 20 one. 44:18.850 --> 44:23.670 A very serious cases once was a a rape and attempted murder uh. 44:23.940 --> 44:26.780 You know what was the and sessions Saul I'm. 44:27.430 --> 44:30.410 Indicate thriller gave were provided with. 44:30.950 --> 44:36.210 Um you do that all that can of paint CEO of of services that 44:36.380 --> 44:37.740 they're provided to the bell. 44:38.740 --> 44:40.270 Um which role nowhere. 44:40.780 --> 44:44.230 And I think with other that he's a young within indicate killer. 44:44.660 --> 44:49.640 That's not a top and Q1 work commissioned officer. Um no matter 44:49.640 --> 44:52.910 how much you they attracted purge that just overwhelming to that. 44:53.810 --> 44:57.950 Um. Ages says what is in the track encourage that they did they 44:57.950 --> 44:59.780 go ahead of themselves of program. 45:00.290 --> 45:03.920 In both of them are adamant they didn't I think of the Law that 45:03.920 --> 45:06.410 just their their personalities as well. 45:06.910 --> 45:09.290 Um. But I don't think that that's. 45:10.620 --> 45:14.110 The thing is or comment on the korean war or being the efficacy 45:14.110 --> 45:18.490 of program or within the heels concept. That that is just my 45:18.490 --> 45:19.510 personal observations. 45:20.240 --> 45:21.870 Have right before so that might be. 45:23.370 --> 45:28.550 Emile 70 a anecdotal initially or a weren't goad fearing that 45:28.990 --> 45:31.060 they objections though. 45:32.250 --> 45:36.710 Refusal to avail themselves of a special victim calf would be 45:36.790 --> 45:39.360 the have any explanation for that from your experience. 45:40.220 --> 45:42.930 Am I have seen a case where I I believe the victim. 45:43.460 --> 45:46.430 Didn't really ever intend to elevated report from restricted 45:46.430 --> 45:49.880 under strict. You've never really wanted to go forward and and 45:49.910 --> 45:53.740 was kind of a mortar and all these different services and really 45:53.740 --> 45:56.660 wanted to do with any of them because they didn't wanna go for 45:56.660 --> 45:57.080 it all. 45:57.590 --> 46:00.960 About the one case where the worst of the with a declined to 46:00.960 --> 46:01.440 the nielsen. 46:03.440 --> 46:06.920 Yes the common on the order quote a major hashed comment period. 46:07.550 --> 46:10.800 My case it was a the justin wanna talk to get another lawyer. 46:12.350 --> 46:13.100 They were a. 46:13.700 --> 46:17.640 Man named they felt that to Maya trawl team with. 46:18.150 --> 46:20.880 It. Represent their interests of. 46:22.070 --> 46:24.920 We don't encourage them to to avail themselves the program but. 46:25.920 --> 46:29.730 This. Pay and I'm in. 46:30.440 --> 46:33.820 That in one was work them is just don't said the one of the concerns 46:33.820 --> 46:34.210 that we. 46:34.940 --> 46:38.520 From last panel was a something called the CNN effect. 46:39.650 --> 46:44.270 Uh with regard to um or Terry of disposition simply bargains 46:44.270 --> 46:45.310 to wedding it. 46:45.860 --> 46:47.580 What your experience in the sense that. 46:49.310 --> 46:51.150 That that's something that effects. 46:51.860 --> 46:54.330 The decision to go for it to cases. 46:55.880 --> 46:57.920 Mm. But you know. 46:59.630 --> 47:01.200 Yeah that that that is certainly there. 47:02.000 --> 47:07.530 Uh. In the marine corps. We have a reorganization for that was that. 47:08.240 --> 47:11.480 Asked I'll see you in the north and the the a much more about. 47:12.140 --> 47:13.850 For about prosecution shop now. 47:14.450 --> 47:16.660 Uh what we try to do is. 47:17.350 --> 47:22.620 To educate Doherty is. Um and have them look at these cases from 47:22.620 --> 47:25.870 for from that perspective the of justice was for the victim. 47:26.370 --> 47:30.860 And not worry about the media all. I'm I think it's a lot there's 47:30.860 --> 47:33.810 something that's is unavoidable but I think you know and it it's 47:33.810 --> 47:36.380 getting better depending on the first and goal. 47:37.940 --> 47:39.020 They also really counted. 47:41.630 --> 47:43.490 Okay. No further questions. 47:44.150 --> 47:46.990 I think that concludes. Thank you very much again for coming 47:46.990 --> 47:50.520 for testifying thanks to everybody else who still here was and 47:50.520 --> 47:54.040 I haven't really appreciate that life on the panel members. 47:54.280 --> 47:56.580 Thank you very much less serious. Conclude. 48:02.240 --> 48:03.540 Oh the government..