WEBVTT

00:03.059 --> 00:05.281
You're , you're coming through loud and

00:05.281 --> 00:07.340
clear . OK , I guess we got 3 mics .

00:09.850 --> 00:13.569
One very What mics do we

00:13.569 --> 00:16.139
need ? Good Morning , Charles . Hello ,

00:16.389 --> 00:18.722
how are you ? Fine , how are you ? Fine ,

00:19.170 --> 00:23.110
good . You're

00:23.590 --> 00:25.000
fine . Good .

00:35.349 --> 00:37.759
Yeah , we tried to go through this , uh .

00:38.990 --> 00:41.046
You know , your debrief last night ,

00:41.046 --> 00:43.419
the , the , uh , printed one , you know ,

00:43.549 --> 00:45.771
there's all the stuff that you guys did

00:45.771 --> 00:47.950
on , on tape , your tech debrief , to

00:47.950 --> 00:50.659
get those so that we try and not repeat ,

00:50.709 --> 00:54.529
you know , only amplify stuff and so

00:54.630 --> 00:57.630
we've tried to come up , you have much

00:57.630 --> 00:59.797
time to do that , but I hope we've got

00:59.797 --> 01:02.770
most of that stuff . And , uh OK . If

01:02.770 --> 01:05.300
you , If you think we're hitting some

01:05.300 --> 01:07.411
area that you think , you know , is a

01:07.500 --> 01:09.722
conflict with that , well yell and tell

01:09.722 --> 01:12.730
us and we'll . All righty . Change her

01:12.730 --> 01:15.360
around . And some of the things , now

01:15.360 --> 01:17.416
there were some things that you guys

01:17.416 --> 01:19.582
said yesterday , you know , when I was

01:19.582 --> 01:21.459
in the project debrief that that

01:21.680 --> 01:25.230
probably uh . Bear on some of these too .

01:34.059 --> 01:36.370
Good morning . Good morning .

01:47.940 --> 01:48.940
Thank you

01:51.940 --> 01:55.839
Mm What do you mean ? It's

01:55.839 --> 01:57.809
cold in here this morning . Yeah .

02:00.580 --> 02:03.980
Good morning Bill . Hi . Hi , Craig .

02:05.550 --> 02:08.070
Are we using those mics ? I don't know

02:08.270 --> 02:11.078
whether they're hot or not . On the

02:11.078 --> 02:13.708
floor before we , uh , you know , start

02:13.708 --> 02:15.819
asking questions to identify yourself

02:15.819 --> 02:19.270
so . Transcribing , know our voices and

02:19.270 --> 02:20.770
see who these people are .

02:23.770 --> 02:26.910
Very . OK

02:30.929 --> 02:31.929
Um

02:36.679 --> 02:38.300
Oh . OK ,

02:40.960 --> 02:44.809
in case we need somebody know about

02:44.809 --> 02:47.031
sources of counseling but sources of uh

02:47.031 --> 02:48.699
wait a minute . Yeah .

02:52.339 --> 02:54.460
Right . Sources of potassium in the

02:54.460 --> 02:58.300
diet . That from somebody . Yeah ,

02:58.350 --> 02:59.350
I think .

03:02.460 --> 03:05.029
Really handy . Here .

03:07.339 --> 03:09.960
I don't either . We don't have But

03:09.960 --> 03:12.016
that's some stuff I'd like . I saw a

03:12.016 --> 03:14.016
picture today . It was a lot better

03:14.016 --> 03:16.509
than the one they had . More

03:16.509 --> 03:19.279
interesting too . Yeah . I .

03:27.070 --> 03:28.126
Sorry about that .

03:31.710 --> 03:34.300
I got some . I

03:40.330 --> 03:42.589
I sleep . This is the first thing .

03:44.699 --> 03:45.921
There's another one .

03:48.970 --> 03:51.380
This Give the up .

03:53.660 --> 03:54.660
Yeah , it's hard

03:58.029 --> 04:00.419
isn't anything you can do . I heard

04:00.419 --> 04:03.949
what you did . OK , the show's all

04:03.949 --> 04:06.171
yours . What kind of format do you have

04:06.171 --> 04:10.059
in mind ? OK , uh , answers . Yeah ,

04:10.100 --> 04:12.350
uh , questions and answers . Uh , I

04:12.350 --> 04:14.183
guess . We ought to for the tape

04:14.183 --> 04:16.294
identify this is Doctor Barry and for

04:16.294 --> 04:18.517
the medical debriefing and I'll try and

04:18.517 --> 04:20.459
uh ask most of the questions . If

04:20.459 --> 04:22.670
people have some here , we'll try and

04:22.670 --> 04:24.948
hand them in that way . If they're not ,

04:24.948 --> 04:27.114
will you identify yourself and I think

04:27.114 --> 04:29.059
they can identify you guys' voices

04:29.059 --> 04:31.114
pretty well already on the tape , so

04:31.114 --> 04:30.260
there shouldn't be any problem with ,

04:30.320 --> 04:34.299
with the tape thing . Chuck ,

04:34.320 --> 04:36.431
I think we're gonna have to . They're

04:36.431 --> 04:38.431
not loud enough . It's not . It's a

04:38.431 --> 04:40.910
little down , Mr . Bernhardt , where is

04:40.910 --> 04:43.929
he ? I'll take care of it . Probably

04:43.929 --> 04:46.151
outside I guess . Can , can you get him

04:46.151 --> 04:48.940
to turn them up some ? We can yell for

04:48.940 --> 04:51.051
a while here if it'll help , and then

04:51.051 --> 04:53.218
we can get them to turn them up some .

04:53.690 --> 04:54.968
You just speak up loud

04:54.968 --> 04:58.890
1234554321 . Looks

04:58.890 --> 05:00.668
like it's coming out of those .

05:03.339 --> 05:05.506
Is that where it's coming from there ?

05:05.609 --> 05:09.410
Yes . OK . Uh ,

05:09.529 --> 05:12.809
Craig we'll get somebody in . We got

05:12.809 --> 05:13.976
Tom . Try it again .

05:14.250 --> 05:18.119
1234554321 . Test out . It's better .

05:18.230 --> 05:22.040
It's way down . Uh , I think the

05:22.040 --> 05:25.769
knob's wrong on this one . loud and

05:25.769 --> 05:27.713
clear back there . Well , it's not

05:27.713 --> 05:30.010
coming in there though . They're not

05:30.010 --> 05:33.140
getting it in there , OK . We can hear

05:33.140 --> 05:35.362
them great , but they're not hearing us

05:37.260 --> 05:39.371
very well . They want that mic turned

05:39.371 --> 05:43.230
inside . The speaker , not the

05:43.230 --> 05:44.720
mic . OK .

05:48.290 --> 05:50.512
I set it on the minimum setting in here

05:50.512 --> 05:52.623
instead of the max . The max seems to

05:52.623 --> 05:55.329
be me and vice versa . Oh really . OK .

05:56.799 --> 05:59.640
Hey , that's a lot better . OK , it's

05:59.640 --> 06:01.807
labeled wrong . They're , they're just

06:01.807 --> 06:04.029
screwed up and that's too much . Yeah ,

06:04.730 --> 06:06.786
yeah , we can , we can hear you loud

06:06.786 --> 06:09.063
and clear now . That's great . OK , OK ,

06:10.519 --> 06:14.149
good show . OK ,

06:15.089 --> 06:17.329
I'm gonna start a little bit , uh , out

06:17.329 --> 06:19.750
of , out of order here , but one of the

06:19.929 --> 06:22.096
things that sort of pervades at all is

06:22.096 --> 06:24.290
medical requirements and in this

06:24.290 --> 06:26.950
section 27 you had some comments about ,

06:26.970 --> 06:29.081
uh , the medical requirements , and I

06:29.081 --> 06:31.248
thought we ought to , we ought to just

06:31.248 --> 06:34.445
get 11 question with you . We in

06:34.445 --> 06:36.556
explaining the medical requirements ,

06:36.556 --> 06:38.778
we have one opportunity to do that with

06:38.778 --> 06:40.778
uh with DEC of course at the at the

06:40.778 --> 06:42.667
time that we're trying to get the

06:42.667 --> 06:42.644
document , the medical requirements

06:42.644 --> 06:45.315
document published . The second , uh ,

06:45.404 --> 06:47.515
the only opportunity we really get to

06:47.515 --> 06:49.964
go over that with you was at the the 30

06:49.964 --> 06:53.054
day debrief , uh , 30 day briefing , uh ,

06:53.364 --> 06:55.920
prior to the flight . Now , did you

06:55.920 --> 06:58.142
guys feel that you had an understanding

06:58.142 --> 07:00.364
of what the requirements were ? Because

07:00.364 --> 07:02.476
when I read this , it sounds like you

07:02.476 --> 07:06.140
did not . Is that true ? I think we

07:06.140 --> 07:08.600
read , I read the forms , Chuck , and ,

07:08.619 --> 07:12.540
uh , understood in general what

07:12.670 --> 07:15.179
what you were after at least the , the

07:15.179 --> 07:17.459
number of sessions we had . I think

07:17.459 --> 07:20.160
it's a question of degree here . OK ,

07:22.250 --> 07:24.417
well , one of the things which I think

07:24.417 --> 07:26.528
is a very valid thing , like , like ,

07:26.528 --> 07:28.528
uh , Al's comments about , uh , you

07:28.528 --> 07:30.472
know , you should substantiate the

07:30.472 --> 07:32.694
requirements , no question about that .

07:32.694 --> 07:34.806
They should be clear . They should be

07:34.806 --> 07:36.750
clear to you in the sense that you

07:36.750 --> 07:38.861
ought to know that what you are doing

07:38.861 --> 07:40.861
is , is worthwhile and the stuff is

07:40.861 --> 07:42.861
used and it isn't , it isn't wasted

07:42.861 --> 07:44.806
somewhere down the line . Somebody

07:44.806 --> 07:47.170
isn't just doing it for fun and . We

07:47.170 --> 07:49.281
try , uh , that's something we try to

07:49.281 --> 07:51.503
iron out pretty hard in our own house ,

07:51.503 --> 07:53.726
and one of the things I'd like to do is

07:53.726 --> 07:55.899
if we run , if you guys end up at uh

07:55.899 --> 07:57.809
sometime before the end of of the

07:57.809 --> 08:00.029
quarantine period here and have some

08:00.029 --> 08:01.918
time , we ought to have that data

08:01.918 --> 08:04.085
together by then and then prior to the

08:04.085 --> 08:05.973
time that , that , uh , we end up

08:05.973 --> 08:08.196
getting you out if you've got a an hour

08:08.196 --> 08:10.307
or something . we might be able to go

08:10.307 --> 08:12.196
over with you and show you here's

08:12.196 --> 08:14.675
here's what we saw with you with the

08:14.675 --> 08:16.735
lab data and the whole bit and say

08:17.036 --> 08:19.203
because you know it's very hard to get

08:19.203 --> 08:21.314
back together again after you get out

08:21.314 --> 08:21.235
of here to do that sort of thing .

08:21.346 --> 08:23.568
Everybody says they'd like to know what

08:23.568 --> 08:25.735
happened to them . We could do that to

08:25.735 --> 08:27.902
you in here and tell you that and here

08:27.902 --> 08:29.957
are the samples that were used to do

08:29.957 --> 08:31.568
that so you . Have some idea

08:31.568 --> 08:33.790
understanding about how that happened .

08:33.790 --> 08:33.221
Would that be worthwhile to you ? Yeah ,

08:33.302 --> 08:35.413
the comment was made not from a point

08:35.413 --> 08:37.469
of view , a specific complaint about

08:37.469 --> 08:39.812
our flight , but just , uh , I think a

08:39.812 --> 08:41.868
continuing understanding between the

08:41.868 --> 08:45.221
two , directorates . We agree ahead of

08:45.221 --> 08:47.277
time because it's , it's the kind of

08:47.277 --> 08:49.277
thing , well , just like with other

08:49.277 --> 08:51.277
scientific experiments , unless the

08:51.277 --> 08:53.499
crew understands the reasons and agrees

08:53.499 --> 08:53.461
with it , you know , the thing isn't

08:53.461 --> 08:55.572
going to be a successful experiment .

08:55.572 --> 08:57.739
Amen . So , uh , it wasn't the comment

08:57.739 --> 08:59.859
wasn't made . From a point of

08:59.859 --> 09:02.081
criticizing anything specifically about

09:02.081 --> 09:04.780
our protocol at all just to reiterate

09:04.780 --> 09:06.859
what uh what everybody ought to know

09:06.859 --> 09:09.809
but doesn't always think about and I

09:09.809 --> 09:12.359
think Chuck also uh

09:13.780 --> 09:16.619
Probably the last few weeks before

09:16.619 --> 09:20.099
flight is not the time to try to brief

09:20.099 --> 09:22.630
the crew on the medical requirements .

09:22.940 --> 09:25.162
At that time their thoughts are quite a

09:25.162 --> 09:27.559
bit on other things and perhaps it

09:27.559 --> 09:30.229
needs to come earlier than that . Uh ,

09:30.770 --> 09:32.881
that's a good , that's a good point .

09:32.881 --> 09:35.640
Uh , I think each one of us is

09:35.650 --> 09:37.872
concerned with ourselves medically as ,

09:37.872 --> 09:40.094
as the medical effects , the physiology

09:40.094 --> 09:42.890
of flight , etc . etc . but the last

09:42.890 --> 09:46.190
few weeks , uh , you just can't get

09:46.650 --> 09:48.650
yourself cranked up to really think

09:48.650 --> 09:51.530
about those things . Except for the

09:51.530 --> 09:53.697
things that are gonna happen to you so

09:53.697 --> 09:56.809
you can be mentally prepared for it . I

09:56.809 --> 09:58.753
think I may have precipitated that

09:58.753 --> 10:00.920
comment , uh , at least when we got to

10:00.920 --> 10:03.142
that area and started that about , uh ,

10:03.142 --> 10:05.198
and , and I guess it really wasn't a

10:05.198 --> 10:07.309
complaint , Chuck , as much as just a

10:07.309 --> 10:09.531
statement that it's a drag , you know ,

10:09.531 --> 10:09.250
going through , uh , collecting urine

10:09.250 --> 10:12.090
for 24 hours and so forth , and , and ,

10:12.169 --> 10:14.989
and , you know , uh . I just wanted to

10:15.000 --> 10:17.222
toss it in that you sure hope that it's

10:17.222 --> 10:19.333
worthwhile and , and I think it would

10:19.333 --> 10:21.500
be interesting to sit down and see how

10:21.500 --> 10:23.722
you , what you're really doing with all

10:23.722 --> 10:25.944
that . Good . I , I think that's really

10:25.944 --> 10:28.000
needed because uh we're trying to do

10:28.000 --> 10:30.111
that right now with the Skyline crews

10:30.111 --> 10:32.333
to tell you . What we really know about

10:32.333 --> 10:34.556
what happens to man , what we know from

10:34.556 --> 10:36.556
the Russian side of the thing as to

10:36.556 --> 10:38.611
what's happened on even their longer

10:38.611 --> 10:38.005
one , put the thing together and say

10:38.005 --> 10:40.227
here's what , here's what we don't know

10:40.227 --> 10:42.172
and why we need to know . Well , I

10:42.172 --> 10:44.854
think I think we understood or I

10:44.854 --> 10:48.700
understood your need to . Work out the

10:48.700 --> 10:51.729
total body water , but the actual

10:51.729 --> 10:53.780
mechanics of how that fit into a 24

10:53.780 --> 10:56.460
hour urine collection 6 times and , and

10:56.460 --> 10:58.627
all the blood drawing and how that all

10:58.627 --> 11:00.793
fit into the picture , the theoretical

11:00.793 --> 11:02.849
picture you were painting for us , I

11:02.849 --> 11:04.849
never understood that . Good . OK ,

11:04.849 --> 11:06.682
fair enough . You know , I think

11:06.682 --> 11:06.385
everybody understands all these things .

11:06.505 --> 11:10.224
Why don't , uh , why don't we make a

11:10.224 --> 11:12.446
specific recommendation at this point ?

11:12.446 --> 11:14.557
Now , you know , all the flight crews

11:14.557 --> 11:16.668
have a , a training plan which is set

11:16.668 --> 11:18.891
up about the time that the flight crews

11:18.891 --> 11:21.002
are designated and includes all kinds

11:21.002 --> 11:22.780
of things on the simulators and

11:22.780 --> 11:24.780
scientific briefings and everything

11:24.780 --> 11:26.835
else . And why is , why wouldn't the

11:26.835 --> 11:28.835
best way to do it , but actually to

11:28.835 --> 11:30.946
schedule a time for medical briefings

11:30.946 --> 11:32.835
early . In the training program .

11:33.690 --> 11:36.159
Because I think if you all , uh ,

11:36.169 --> 11:38.447
conversely , if you all feel that , uh ,

11:38.447 --> 11:40.613
an experiment's worthwhile doing , you

11:40.613 --> 11:42.836
want to get your protocol settled early

11:42.836 --> 11:44.891
in , in the game so you have all the

11:44.891 --> 11:47.113
equipment or whatever you need . Amen .

11:47.113 --> 11:49.369
Ready , uh , so it will be , uh , a

11:49.369 --> 11:53.369
satisfactory test . So I would suggest

11:53.369 --> 11:55.880
that maybe sometime uh something be

11:55.880 --> 11:58.099
scheduled in the in the crew training

11:58.099 --> 12:00.219
program early in the game and and I

12:00.219 --> 12:02.330
should it becomes one of those things

12:02.330 --> 12:04.386
you've got to check off like systems

12:04.386 --> 12:06.386
briefings and everything else and I

12:06.386 --> 12:06.289
should think that briefing should

12:06.289 --> 12:08.549
consist of uh .

12:10.119 --> 12:12.230
A bit of the theoretical thing you're

12:12.230 --> 12:15.580
trying to do followed by the mechanics

12:15.869 --> 12:17.980
and the protocol , what that means to

12:17.980 --> 12:20.036
you , uh , yeah , that's right , the

12:20.036 --> 12:22.202
mechanics of how you go about doing it

12:22.202 --> 12:22.080
and the number of punctures and where

12:22.080 --> 12:24.024
you're going to do it and how many

12:24.024 --> 12:26.080
urine samples and that sort of thing

12:26.080 --> 12:26.059
just so the guys understand . Great .

12:26.440 --> 12:30.030
OK , will do . I , that's great . Uh ,

12:30.200 --> 12:32.400
I'd like to go back and pick up one

12:32.400 --> 12:35.390
then on , on the , uh , exercise , uh ,

12:35.520 --> 12:38.000
area . You , you mentioned this in the

12:38.000 --> 12:40.111
debrief and you mentioned it again in

12:40.111 --> 12:42.599
the , uh , uh , yesterday , but can you

12:42.599 --> 12:44.543
give me some idea now you said you

12:44.543 --> 12:46.799
missed , uh , as I remember the , the

12:46.799 --> 12:48.521
debriefing statements here you

12:48.521 --> 12:50.577
commented that you missed one day on

12:50.577 --> 12:52.799
the way out and one day on the way back

12:52.799 --> 12:55.419
and can you , can you say what you did

12:55.419 --> 12:58.760
in time , uh , what , what the exercise .

12:59.099 --> 13:01.155
consisted of what you did roughly in

13:01.155 --> 13:03.321
time . I know you won't notice it in a

13:03.321 --> 13:05.543
minute or a second or anything , but as

13:05.543 --> 13:07.650
roughly as you can . And then , uh ,

13:07.659 --> 13:10.059
what if you have any idea , did you try

13:10.059 --> 13:12.260
and judge what you did as far as did

13:12.260 --> 13:14.739
you try and get a , a heart rate

13:14.739 --> 13:16.940
increase or did you try and judge your

13:16.950 --> 13:19.700
your exercise level in any way ? And

13:19.700 --> 13:21.811
this is particularly important for us

13:21.811 --> 13:23.922
in trying to separate out the effects

13:23.922 --> 13:26.033
that are different between the two of

13:26.033 --> 13:28.144
you are on the surface versus Stu who

13:28.144 --> 13:30.256
was in . In the in the spacecraft all

13:30.256 --> 13:32.478
the time , so we want to keep that , we

13:32.478 --> 13:34.589
want to get that straight if we can .

13:34.589 --> 13:36.422
Could you just sort of brief the

13:36.422 --> 13:38.644
exercises to the way you did it ? Maybe

13:38.644 --> 13:40.756
each of you have to do it because you

13:40.756 --> 13:42.922
probably did it differently . But what

13:42.922 --> 13:44.922
we were shooting for was about a 10

13:44.922 --> 13:47.089
minute period per day exclusive of the

13:47.089 --> 13:49.256
two days of lunar service activity for

13:49.256 --> 13:51.539
the two of us , and , uh , Stu was

13:51.539 --> 13:54.679
gonna try to get about a 10 minute

13:54.679 --> 13:57.479
period per day for including those days .

13:58.650 --> 14:00.929
The uh method of exercise during the

14:00.929 --> 14:02.969
ten-minute period was to use this

14:02.969 --> 14:06.690
ExoGym device which we have and uh .

14:08.900 --> 14:11.140
To operate that in such a fashion that

14:11.140 --> 14:13.460
the old what they call the big four

14:13.460 --> 14:15.682
where you start out with your with your

14:15.682 --> 14:17.904
legs and uh your feet and two loops and

14:17.904 --> 14:20.539
your hands controlling the friction

14:20.539 --> 14:23.900
device from a crouch position to a full

14:23.900 --> 14:27.880
stretch out and do that several times

14:28.299 --> 14:32.130
then hold the uh . The uh fixed

14:32.130 --> 14:34.241
loops and use the legs on the movable

14:34.241 --> 14:37.210
loops and then hold the fixed loop with

14:37.210 --> 14:39.377
the , with the toes and use the biceps

14:39.377 --> 14:43.210
on the movable loops that's the

14:43.210 --> 14:45.543
general pattern that we tried to follow ,

14:45.650 --> 14:47.706
but we didn't make all of those time

14:47.706 --> 14:50.630
periods we missed the uh first day out

14:50.630 --> 14:53.719
because of uh . Well , we didn't have

14:53.719 --> 14:55.886
it scheduled the first day . Well , it

14:55.886 --> 14:58.163
was in the flight plan , but we hadn't ,

14:58.163 --> 14:59.997
I don't think anybody's going to

14:59.997 --> 15:02.052
exercise the first day anyway , uh ,

15:02.052 --> 15:04.163
yeah , in fact , it should never have

15:04.163 --> 15:06.386
been in the flight plan to exercise the

15:06.386 --> 15:08.552
first day . Pretty hard to get that in

15:08.552 --> 15:10.775
in that first day . I don't see how you

15:10.775 --> 15:10.099
had a problem with the docking probe .

15:11.489 --> 15:13.656
You don't really need it in that first

15:13.656 --> 15:15.711
day anyway pardon ? You don't really

15:15.711 --> 15:18.760
need it in that first day . Well , uh ,

15:19.900 --> 15:22.011
in retrospect , I think that it would

15:22.011 --> 15:24.067
probably have alleviated some of the

15:24.067 --> 15:26.233
sore back muscles that first day if we

15:26.233 --> 15:28.122
gone ahead and done it in my case

15:28.122 --> 15:30.344
anyhow . It was kind of like , uh , one

15:30.344 --> 15:32.511
of those things where they said , OK ,

15:32.511 --> 15:34.567
you want to exercise . We put in the

15:34.567 --> 15:36.789
flight plan . I said , yeah , we got to

15:36.789 --> 15:36.500
have it in the flight plan . We won't

15:36.500 --> 15:38.667
do it . What we're going to put it ? I

15:38.667 --> 15:41.000
said , put it in before lunch every day ,

15:41.000 --> 15:40.659
before the mid meal every day , and

15:40.659 --> 15:43.989
that's how it got in there . OK . Did

15:43.989 --> 15:46.809
you said X or Jim , or is it , is it

15:46.809 --> 15:49.979
the Xergenie or Jim ? I think Xer Jim

15:49.979 --> 15:52.090
is a trade name . Yeah , they're both

15:52.090 --> 15:54.312
similar devices . It's the same thing .

15:54.312 --> 15:56.312
It's the friction one , yeah , OK ,

15:56.312 --> 15:58.969
yeah , OK . And , and so 10 minutes a

15:58.969 --> 16:01.136
day is what you had programmed for the

16:01.136 --> 16:03.136
thing and did you have any , do you

16:03.136 --> 16:05.358
have any , did you feel that you really

16:05.358 --> 16:07.580
got a , got a fair amount ? Did you get

16:07.580 --> 16:09.636
up any increase in breathing rate or

16:09.636 --> 16:11.802
heart rate that you were aware of when

16:11.802 --> 16:13.802
you did it ? Yeah , we didn't do it

16:13.802 --> 16:13.750
quantitatively , but certainly , uh ,

16:13.840 --> 16:16.890
yeah , I always tried to stop , uh ,

16:16.900 --> 16:19.169
short of , of cracking a sweat . It's

16:19.169 --> 16:21.391
just not desirable to get all sweaty in

16:21.391 --> 16:24.020
the spacecraft , and I felt like I was

16:24.020 --> 16:26.076
pulling it somewhere around 10 to 15

16:26.076 --> 16:28.187
minutes . I could feel the heart rate

16:28.187 --> 16:30.298
going up and the breathing going up ,

16:30.298 --> 16:32.520
but I would never do it to the point of

16:32.520 --> 16:34.659
a sweat . And it's not a vigorous

16:34.659 --> 16:36.603
exercise . It's more of a , it's a

16:36.603 --> 16:39.880
tension exercise . I put , I put enough

16:39.890 --> 16:42.840
load on it where it was a , a hard pull

16:42.840 --> 16:44.950
but a slow pull . OK , did

16:47.679 --> 16:49.790
yours go about that same way then for

16:49.790 --> 16:52.012
the whole time , even when you were I ,

16:52.012 --> 16:54.123
I'd like to just summarize exercise ,

16:54.123 --> 16:56.109
uh , in my case , uh . I , uh ,

16:58.390 --> 17:00.590
I probably didn't exercise as much in

17:00.590 --> 17:02.789
retrospect as I would have if I were

17:02.789 --> 17:05.510
doing it again uh for various and

17:05.510 --> 17:09.359
sundry reasons , uh . One is ,

17:09.729 --> 17:11.896
you know , you , you don't feel a need

17:11.896 --> 17:14.118
for the exercise . You just gotta say ,

17:14.118 --> 17:16.340
well , I'm gonna , I'm gonna go do this

17:16.340 --> 17:18.678
and uh . There were a couple of times

17:18.678 --> 17:20.789
that we got out the , uh , you know ,

17:20.789 --> 17:23.011
it says exercise period , so we got out

17:23.011 --> 17:26.468
the exerciser and Alan would have at it

17:26.468 --> 17:28.746
and I'd be doing something and I'd say ,

17:28.746 --> 17:30.857
well , I'll put it over here and I'll

17:30.857 --> 17:33.280
get to it in a minute . And then I know

17:33.280 --> 17:35.829
on one occasion , several hours later I

17:35.829 --> 17:38.469
finally got around to getting the To

17:38.469 --> 17:40.469
get in it and uh and doing some

17:40.469 --> 17:44.290
exercise on it . The uh . I'd

17:44.290 --> 17:46.569
say probably 5 to 10 minutes was the

17:46.569 --> 17:50.040
length of time . I ,

17:50.650 --> 17:52.761
I would strain pretty hard . I didn't

17:52.761 --> 17:54.817
work up a sweat , but you know , you

17:54.817 --> 17:56.928
use this thing , you can use it about

17:56.928 --> 17:58.983
any way you want . You can drag them

17:58.983 --> 17:58.380
through the ropes or it's really

17:58.380 --> 18:00.729
designed to where you hold and do an

18:00.729 --> 18:03.290
isometric first and then go right from

18:03.290 --> 18:05.885
the . Isymmetric into the isotonic and

18:06.244 --> 18:08.355
and and you get the whole , the whole

18:08.355 --> 18:12.084
smear , uh , so I'd hold uh

18:12.084 --> 18:14.028
hold pressure on the thing and and

18:14.028 --> 18:16.195
strain against it and you know you can

18:16.195 --> 18:18.528
strain as little or as hard as you want ,

18:18.528 --> 18:20.584
but I'd strain reasonably hard and ,

18:20.584 --> 18:22.806
and then relax the tension and and pull

18:22.806 --> 18:26.719
it up . Uh , but I'm

18:26.719 --> 18:28.608
trying to think , I'm sure that I

18:28.608 --> 18:30.663
missed , uh , one exercise period on

18:30.663 --> 18:32.830
the way out completely that Al and Abe

18:32.830 --> 18:34.886
got in . I did no exercise at all in

18:34.886 --> 18:37.619
lunar orbit . Uh , the thinking of the ,

18:37.630 --> 18:40.550
uh , extra gym was , uh , never even

18:40.550 --> 18:42.935
crossed . My mind for those two days

18:43.875 --> 18:47.814
and then in preparation for uh

18:48.515 --> 18:50.626
for entry I said boy I'm really gonna

18:50.626 --> 18:52.737
hit that on the way home as it turned

18:52.737 --> 18:55.635
out I barely got in the one the one

18:55.635 --> 18:58.510
exercise a day . That

18:59.750 --> 19:01.917
that we did on the way home , so I , I

19:01.917 --> 19:05.910
would say overall uh I probably or

19:05.910 --> 19:08.890
I'm sure I didn't uh hit the uh extra

19:08.890 --> 19:11.112
gym as much as I probably should have .

19:13.209 --> 19:17.010
OK . I don't know how , uh , from

19:17.010 --> 19:19.121
my point of view at least , how you ,

19:19.170 --> 19:21.392
in a case like this where you're trying

19:21.392 --> 19:23.569
to correlate the , the relationship of

19:23.569 --> 19:25.625
the exercise that Ed and I did , for

19:25.625 --> 19:28.979
example . Uh , and its benefits or lack

19:28.979 --> 19:31.650
thereof with respect to the , the , uh ,

19:31.660 --> 19:33.771
lunar surface period which is over 30

19:33.771 --> 19:35.993
hours , and I just think the workload ,

19:35.993 --> 19:37.882
the basic workload there alone is

19:37.882 --> 19:40.104
enough different to . Put that exercise

19:40.104 --> 19:42.271
thing down to the noise level . That's

19:42.271 --> 19:44.327
contribution down the noise level as

19:44.327 --> 19:46.493
far as the two of us are concerned . I

19:46.493 --> 19:48.660
think that's probably very right now ,

19:48.660 --> 19:48.430
I , and I think that the thing we want

19:48.430 --> 19:50.597
to know is , you know , was Stu trying

19:50.597 --> 19:52.670
to make up for it in some way with

19:52.670 --> 19:54.781
exercise in the spacecraft because he

19:54.781 --> 19:56.948
obviously , I mean , there's no way he

19:56.948 --> 19:59.059
could make up for what you were doing

19:59.059 --> 19:58.660
on the lunar surface . He's trying to ,

19:58.750 --> 20:00.806
but he had a real busy flight plan .

20:00.806 --> 20:03.028
Yeah , yeah . I don't think he could do

20:03.028 --> 20:05.139
it , and this , this is what I wanted

20:05.139 --> 20:07.250
to find out was he , was he trying to

20:07.250 --> 20:06.949
do a lot more or something during that

20:06.949 --> 20:10.239
time , so . No , I , uh , I wasn't .

20:10.479 --> 20:13.719
I , I think that'd be a difficult thing

20:13.719 --> 20:15.719
to try to do , really . I , I don't

20:15.719 --> 20:19.329
know . You're going to , uh . Maybe

20:19.329 --> 20:22.849
with the longer period than in lunar

20:22.849 --> 20:26.369
orbit , uh , CMP may not be quite as

20:26.369 --> 20:29.170
busy or maybe . I suspect he probably

20:29.170 --> 20:31.114
will be . I think it's going to be

20:31.114 --> 20:33.059
difficult to , uh , to get in much

20:33.059 --> 20:35.050
exercise there , but , uh ,

20:37.310 --> 20:39.199
no , I wasn't , so it was obvious

20:39.199 --> 20:41.366
that's Stu's greater interests were in

20:41.366 --> 20:43.643
running the spacecraft and for example ,

20:43.643 --> 20:43.319
the B-23s took a lot of time because

20:43.319 --> 20:45.541
you might otherwise have allowed . That

20:45.541 --> 20:47.652
was the kind of , this is the kind of

20:47.652 --> 20:49.875
thing I'm talking about . But if you're

20:49.875 --> 20:52.041
going to get the individuals to try to

20:52.041 --> 20:53.986
exercise and respond to exercise .

20:54.680 --> 20:56.902
You're gonna have to get to them really

20:56.902 --> 20:59.069
to explain the benefits of the crew as

20:59.069 --> 21:01.180
a result of that , right , because it

21:01.180 --> 21:03.347
really is an individual thing . That's

21:03.347 --> 21:05.569
right , and we haven't tried to set any

21:05.569 --> 21:07.680
numbers of times that you do anything

21:07.680 --> 21:09.902
or anything like that and so I think we

21:09.902 --> 21:09.319
need to really carefully look at , look

21:09.319 --> 21:12.920
at that as an area , OK , uh , and ,

21:13.000 --> 21:15.222
while I , uh , added one that came up .

21:15.222 --> 21:17.278
Yesterday when you guys were talking

21:17.278 --> 21:19.444
about uh Myrtle reminded me of the and

21:19.444 --> 21:21.444
the problems that you had in flight

21:21.444 --> 21:23.667
with the the urine kinking of the urine

21:23.667 --> 21:26.863
hose and so forth uh how much time did

21:26.863 --> 21:29.623
you make a conscious effort uh in in

21:29.623 --> 21:32.062
your own particular case because it's

21:32.062 --> 21:34.062
important trying to chase down your

21:34.062 --> 21:37.526
status postflight here . of , uh , the

21:37.526 --> 21:39.926
time that you had the urine device on ,

21:40.206 --> 21:42.373
did , did you have it ? Me ? Well , it

21:42.373 --> 21:44.428
wasn't my hose , it was kinked , you

21:44.428 --> 21:46.595
know . Right , right . It was Al's . I

21:46.595 --> 21:48.650
get twice Al's was , is that right ?

21:48.650 --> 21:50.706
Yeah . Apparently all the time . All

21:50.706 --> 21:52.873
the time , huh ? We , uh . Oh , yeah .

21:53.286 --> 21:55.780
We had it on . I guess we'll have to

21:55.780 --> 21:57.819
look back on the transcript or look

21:57.819 --> 21:59.986
back over the flight plan and Nova and

21:59.986 --> 22:02.152
we took it off the first time . We all

22:02.152 --> 22:04.263
unsuited at the same time , which was

22:04.263 --> 22:07.060
about , uh , 66 hours , 7 hours into

22:07.060 --> 22:10.079
the flight , right ? Somewhere in there .

22:10.829 --> 22:14.630
And uh we put the UCTAs

22:14.630 --> 22:18.550
on uh PDI morning . And

22:18.550 --> 22:21.189
we took them off only when we got back

22:21.189 --> 22:24.430
to the spacecraft after docking . And

22:24.430 --> 22:26.374
it was all for those two periods .

22:28.189 --> 22:30.949
Only . And I never experienced any

22:30.949 --> 22:33.119
discomfort . I never had any problems

22:33.119 --> 22:35.760
whatsoever that , uh , we discussed

22:35.760 --> 22:39.000
preflight . No symptoms , no , uh , of

22:39.000 --> 22:40.880
any sort . Great .

22:43.199 --> 22:45.032
Well , it looks like you know we

22:45.032 --> 22:47.199
haven't had any and you did well . How

22:47.199 --> 22:49.560
did you feel , uh , that's another one

22:49.560 --> 22:51.727
we might just get out the way on fluid

22:51.727 --> 22:54.079
intake , it sounds like you all thought

22:54.079 --> 22:56.190
the water was great and so you were ,

22:56.199 --> 22:59.000
you were drinking well . Uh , did , did

22:59.000 --> 23:01.222
you , were you trying to force fluids ?

23:01.222 --> 23:03.278
Were you trying to consciously force

23:03.278 --> 23:05.278
fluids ? Yeah , I think . You and I

23:05.278 --> 23:07.444
will . Uh , in my case anyhow . Yeah .

23:07.444 --> 23:09.611
I tried to drink , take a drink out of

23:09.611 --> 23:11.722
the water gun about every time I went

23:11.722 --> 23:13.944
by it . I did find that I preferred the

23:13.944 --> 23:17.760
juices to water and surprisingly enough ,

23:17.770 --> 23:20.055
as much as I , Did not care for the

23:20.055 --> 23:22.535
juices pre-flight , particularly , I

23:22.535 --> 23:24.974
didn't crave them or anything . Uh , we

23:24.974 --> 23:27.030
were drinking a couple of juices per

23:27.030 --> 23:29.494
meal , a large portion of the time . I

23:29.494 --> 23:32.114
was , and in addition , uh , taking a

23:32.114 --> 23:34.114
shot from the water gun about every

23:34.114 --> 23:37.439
time I'd go buy it . I , I , I forced

23:37.439 --> 23:39.495
myself to drink the water , uh , not

23:39.495 --> 23:41.550
that it tasted bad or anything , but

23:41.550 --> 23:43.883
just , just to keep the fluid intake up ,

23:44.040 --> 23:46.510
and so I would , I would drink water ,

23:46.520 --> 23:49.760
uh . You know , like it says every time

23:49.760 --> 23:52.093
you pass the water gun , you say , well ,

23:52.093 --> 23:54.316
I think I'll try some of that , and one

23:54.316 --> 23:56.482
person would take a drink of water and

23:56.482 --> 23:58.538
pass it , pass it around and would ,

23:58.538 --> 24:01.239
would put it back up . Did , uh , is

24:01.239 --> 24:03.128
there any chance though you , you

24:03.128 --> 24:05.183
stayed in the debriefing , you , you

24:05.183 --> 24:07.072
felt you drank about half as many

24:07.072 --> 24:09.017
juices as they did because I'd say

24:09.017 --> 24:08.560
that's probably a good average . Yeah ,

24:08.680 --> 24:11.000
they , they , no , I'd say probably say

24:11.000 --> 24:13.770
1/3 less , 1/3 . Yeah . Yeah . And

24:13.770 --> 24:15.992
juices . Um-hum . OK . Yeah , you drank

24:15.992 --> 24:18.214
two juices at some . Yeah , I drank two

24:18.214 --> 24:20.270
occasionally toward the , toward the

24:20.270 --> 24:22.381
end , I was , I was drinking two more

24:22.381 --> 24:24.939
than , uh , I was , because a lot of

24:24.939 --> 24:27.619
times you'd drink a cocoa and a juice

24:27.619 --> 24:31.339
and I'd bypass the cocoa , uh , and I'd

24:31.339 --> 24:33.579
just drink a juice . So , I'd say

24:33.579 --> 24:35.746
probably , and this is a wag , but I'd

24:35.746 --> 24:37.912
say a third less juice than they did .

24:38.540 --> 24:41.380
OK , well , I think I kind of decided I

24:41.380 --> 24:43.602
was gonna try and do everything I could

24:43.602 --> 24:47.290
to . To , uh , End up in as good shape

24:47.290 --> 24:49.457
as I could at the end of the mission ,

24:49.457 --> 24:51.457
which included uh keeping the fluid

24:51.457 --> 24:53.568
intake and the food intake up as well

24:53.568 --> 24:57.300
as the exercise and uh that's generally

24:57.300 --> 24:59.699
what we try to do . You did a great job

24:59.699 --> 25:02.819
of it we had to try to get two juices

25:02.819 --> 25:05.459
per per meal most of the time .

25:07.630 --> 25:10.439
OK , there was a , a question here

25:10.439 --> 25:12.661
about did , uh , for you particularly ,

25:12.661 --> 25:14.717
did you eat more ? Do you feel while

25:14.717 --> 25:16.828
you were , while they were with you ,

25:16.828 --> 25:18.995
Alan Edward with you in the spacecraft

25:18.995 --> 25:21.217
and when you were alone , eat and drink

25:21.217 --> 25:23.217
better ? I saw in your food thing ,

25:23.400 --> 25:25.456
well , I'd say , uh , excuse me , go

25:25.456 --> 25:27.622
ahead . I saw in your food , uh , uh ,

25:27.622 --> 25:29.678
comments there that , that you , you

25:29.678 --> 25:31.733
had difficulty , you know , the food

25:31.733 --> 25:33.900
preparation thing you'd have preferred

25:33.900 --> 25:36.122
if you'd have had some like some canned

25:36.122 --> 25:36.079
things you could have opened quickly

25:36.079 --> 25:38.246
and gotten to when you were alone that

25:38.246 --> 25:40.523
way , and I can surely understand that .

25:40.523 --> 25:42.746
I think it's something we ought to look

25:42.746 --> 25:42.310
at . But , well , that's the way I did

25:42.310 --> 25:45.160
eat , uh , that's because we had them

25:45.160 --> 25:47.327
there . I , I guess it didn't come out

25:47.327 --> 25:49.493
right because that's the way I did eat

25:49.493 --> 25:51.049
and then I would say , uh .

25:53.540 --> 25:55.540
I'd say the answer to your question

25:55.540 --> 25:59.300
would be yes , uh , that . That I ate

25:59.300 --> 26:01.459
more when when they were in there and

26:01.459 --> 26:03.819
but the idea of people being together

26:03.819 --> 26:06.099
is is nothing in that it's a time

26:06.099 --> 26:10.089
factor uh . You know during the coast

26:10.089 --> 26:12.256
during the coast phase you have more ,

26:12.256 --> 26:14.478
uh , you have more time to , you know ,

26:14.478 --> 26:17.180
to worry about eating , uh , during

26:17.180 --> 26:19.236
that lunar orbit phase I didn't have

26:19.236 --> 26:22.619
any time at all and , uh , to , you

26:22.619 --> 26:24.786
know , any extra time and particularly

26:24.786 --> 26:27.008
with the troubleshooting the highon and

26:27.008 --> 26:30.750
so forth , uh , so , uh . I didn't have

26:30.750 --> 26:32.861
the inclination nor want to go to the

26:32.861 --> 26:35.339
trouble of trying to mix up a a meal as

26:35.339 --> 26:39.000
such and I didn't much like that the .

26:40.020 --> 26:42.242
Going to all that trouble anyway , so ,

26:42.242 --> 26:44.409
uh , I opened up , you know , a can of

26:44.409 --> 26:46.520
that chicken salad , I think it was ,

26:46.520 --> 26:49.209
and I had that for breakfast and , uh ,

26:49.219 --> 26:51.441
then a wet pack and , you know , that's

26:51.441 --> 26:53.497
the type of food that you can really

26:53.497 --> 26:55.663
get to in a hurry and eat . Right . So

26:55.663 --> 26:57.886
I wouldn't say overall that , uh , that

26:57.886 --> 26:59.886
I probably ended up eating too much

26:59.886 --> 27:01.941
less , but it was a little different

27:01.941 --> 27:01.339
rather than sitting down and mixing up

27:01.339 --> 27:04.969
a rehydratable pack and . So forth . So

27:04.969 --> 27:07.025
the total amount you don't think was

27:07.025 --> 27:09.080
any different because you're there ,

27:09.080 --> 27:11.302
but it was just different kinds of food

27:11.302 --> 27:13.525
then ? It may have been a little less ,

27:13.525 --> 27:15.636
but , uh , do you , do you personally

27:15.636 --> 27:17.747
feel that you know the weight loss is

27:17.747 --> 27:19.913
involved here and you know yours , you

27:19.913 --> 27:22.025
know that they , uh , you got 1 pound

27:22.025 --> 27:23.969
each here and you got a , a , a 10

27:23.969 --> 27:26.025
pound one , and I heard your comment

27:26.025 --> 27:28.275
about the scale . Yesterday too , but ,

27:28.285 --> 27:31.104
uh , with , do you have any personal

27:31.364 --> 27:33.954
reason why you think there's that much

27:33.954 --> 27:36.232
difference in the weight loss ? I mean ,

27:36.232 --> 27:38.287
is there anything that you know that

27:38.287 --> 27:37.844
you've personally tried to account for

27:37.844 --> 27:40.604
it other than the , than the food

27:40.604 --> 27:42.805
intake , water intake , or anything of

27:42.805 --> 27:46.594
that sort ? No , I

27:46.594 --> 27:48.483
sus I , I'm not sure that there's

27:48.483 --> 27:52.469
anything magic about uh . About the

27:52.469 --> 27:54.989
zerog or the flag , I , I would suspect

27:54.989 --> 27:57.489
I'd probably lost several pounds if I'd

27:58.030 --> 28:01.790
eaten that same , uh same menu and sat

28:01.790 --> 28:03.849
right here , uh .

28:07.109 --> 28:10.989
I , uh , I probably think , uh , that I

28:10.989 --> 28:13.630
was , uh , 3 or 4 pounds overweight

28:13.630 --> 28:15.852
when I went into the flight , uh , as a

28:15.852 --> 28:17.963
matter of fact , you know , I'm not a

28:17.963 --> 28:20.074
big eater , and , uh , during most of

28:20.074 --> 28:22.186
my , uh , during most of the time you

28:22.186 --> 28:24.241
come up on training . Uh , I drink a

28:24.241 --> 28:26.352
can of Sego and a can of V8 juice for

28:26.352 --> 28:29.640
breakfast , and then I eat a sandwich

28:29.640 --> 28:32.780
for lunch and , uh ,

28:33.719 --> 28:35.775
you know , maybe drink , uh , two or

28:35.775 --> 28:37.886
three cans of beer and eat a sandwich

28:37.886 --> 28:39.886
in the evening and , you know , I ,

28:39.886 --> 28:41.997
yeah , you know , you know , I can go

28:41.997 --> 28:44.359
for days on a menu like that and I

28:44.359 --> 28:46.470
don't know how many calories all that

28:46.470 --> 28:48.803
adds up to , but , uh , you know , it's ,

28:48.803 --> 28:50.803
it's , it's not a really a , a high

28:50.803 --> 28:53.839
calorie . Uh , diet , and I would say

28:53.839 --> 28:57.040
that that pretty much was my diet for 3

28:57.040 --> 28:59.151
months prior to going into quarantine

28:59.151 --> 29:01.439
was just about what I , uh , what I

29:01.439 --> 29:03.439
stated there . And then when we got

29:03.439 --> 29:05.550
into quarantine , well then I started

29:05.550 --> 29:07.717
eating , eating more for breakfast and

29:07.717 --> 29:09.939
eating a bigger meal in the evening and

29:09.939 --> 29:12.680
uh so I think I probably was 3 or 4

29:12.680 --> 29:14.847
pounds heavy going in , going into the

29:14.847 --> 29:18.790
flight and uh . So I ,

29:18.810 --> 29:22.599
uh , I think , uh , the weight loss may

29:22.599 --> 29:24.655
be overplayed a little bit because I

29:24.655 --> 29:27.739
think I , uh , had a few extra pounds

29:27.739 --> 29:29.961
and then plus I don't think that , uh ,

29:30.400 --> 29:32.567
maybe we picked the right , uh , the ,

29:32.770 --> 29:34.770
the right weight up on the , on the

29:34.770 --> 29:37.560
rolling scales , but , uh , that's

29:37.560 --> 29:39.560
neither here nor there , you know .

29:39.939 --> 29:41.717
Well , we can probably show you

29:41.719 --> 29:43.941
something about that . From when we get

29:43.941 --> 29:46.052
your lab material pulled together , I

29:46.052 --> 29:48.275
think we'd be able to give you a better

29:48.275 --> 29:50.608
handle on that as to whether , you know ,

29:50.608 --> 29:52.775
it really was something that had to do

29:52.775 --> 29:54.941
with the zero G state or not . We hope

29:54.941 --> 29:57.163
we'll be able to do that . So , we'll ,

29:57.163 --> 29:56.755
we'll try . Well , if I could just add

29:56.755 --> 29:58.644
a general comment , which I think

29:58.644 --> 30:00.866
reflects the consensus here , the three

30:00.866 --> 30:03.088
of us , that , that with respect to the

30:03.088 --> 30:05.144
food in general , the type of food ,

30:05.144 --> 30:07.366
the method by which it was packaged and

30:07.366 --> 30:09.311
so on , And uh , and the degree to

30:09.311 --> 30:11.255
which we like it , disliked it was

30:11.255 --> 30:13.599
primarily a function of the , uh ,

30:14.030 --> 30:16.086
level of activity in the flight plan

30:16.349 --> 30:18.349
that the business of going into the

30:18.349 --> 30:20.516
pantry and taking time to select foods

30:20.516 --> 30:22.738
and drinks and so on is fine during the

30:22.738 --> 30:24.960
quiet periods of coast that things like

30:24.960 --> 30:28.660
uh . Like spoon spoon packages are good

30:28.660 --> 30:30.660
if the level of activity is not too

30:30.660 --> 30:32.716
high , but certainly if the level of

30:32.716 --> 30:34.771
activity is high , the wet packs and

30:34.771 --> 30:36.771
the cans , and that's about all you

30:36.771 --> 30:38.716
want to take time to fool with . I

30:38.716 --> 30:40.771
think this is a general comment that

30:40.771 --> 30:43.049
really reflects our consensus . It was ,

30:43.049 --> 30:45.271
it was a time consuming part of the day

30:45.550 --> 30:48.765
to prepare . Pills , uh , get them all ,

30:48.875 --> 30:50.931
get them out of the , the food box ,

30:50.931 --> 30:52.931
get them all laid out , cut all the

30:52.931 --> 30:54.986
tops off of them , get all the water

30:54.986 --> 30:57.208
into them , get a massaged and go about

30:57.208 --> 30:57.094
eating . Get the pill back in there .

30:57.244 --> 30:59.411
Get the pill back , you know it , it ,

30:59.411 --> 31:01.688
it took a lot of time . It's an effort .

31:01.688 --> 31:03.744
You're right . And , uh , you know ,

31:03.744 --> 31:05.911
it's a lot easier to open up a can and

31:05.911 --> 31:08.022
a wet pack and then , uh , then you .

31:08.022 --> 31:10.244
Then you think it's a lot of trouble to

31:10.244 --> 31:10.060
even mix up the juice , but , uh , you

31:10.060 --> 31:12.227
know , that , that in that way you got

31:12.227 --> 31:14.449
your meal and you're through and you're

31:14.449 --> 31:16.616
on your way . Right . OK . The cooking

31:16.616 --> 31:18.959
problems is , uh , is still a problem

31:20.099 --> 31:22.321
which has been fairly , fairly common ,

31:22.321 --> 31:24.432
I guess as a Yeah , I think , I think

31:24.432 --> 31:26.543
if you got plenty of time , you don't

31:26.543 --> 31:28.488
mind spending an hour or so . As a

31:28.488 --> 31:28.060
matter of fact , it's a very pleasant

31:28.060 --> 31:30.760
hour . It gets rid of that type . Very

31:30.760 --> 31:32.871
effectively , but I , but I would say

31:32.871 --> 31:35.204
in my case that watching these guys eat ,

31:35.204 --> 31:37.371
you know , they , they went right down

31:37.371 --> 31:39.704
the menu , and , uh , so I thought , uh ,

31:40.609 --> 31:43.050
you know , I , uh , I really , I really

31:43.050 --> 31:45.849
should do that , but , uh , I just

31:45.849 --> 31:48.016
didn't have an inclination to eat that

31:48.016 --> 31:50.182
much and , uh , you know , even though

31:50.182 --> 31:52.349
you know in your own mind , you know ,

31:52.349 --> 31:51.449
hey , you ought to do this , you know ,

31:51.530 --> 31:53.750
and you ought to keep yourself . You

31:53.750 --> 31:55.972
know , eat just as much as you possibly

31:55.972 --> 31:57.972
can . I just couldn't get around to

31:57.972 --> 32:00.139
doing it . In fact , several times I'd

32:00.139 --> 32:02.194
mix the food up and then by the time

32:02.194 --> 32:02.109
I'd eat a couple of packages , you know ,

32:02.189 --> 32:04.189
I just couldn't get to the , to the

32:04.189 --> 32:06.356
third package , and so I'd put it back

32:06.356 --> 32:08.467
in the pantry . Well , Stu , uh , one

32:08.467 --> 32:10.633
of the things that's going to come out

32:10.633 --> 32:10.069
of that is somebody , you know ,

32:10.229 --> 32:12.140
reading the , the , the , uh ,

32:12.380 --> 32:14.459
debriefing itself . The obvious

32:14.459 --> 32:16.626
question comes up , OK , was your loss

32:16.626 --> 32:18.810
of it , your lack of appetite itself .

32:19.165 --> 32:22.025
Was it just plain lack of appetite , or

32:22.025 --> 32:23.714
did you really have any , any

32:23.714 --> 32:25.954
discomfort in your , as far as the gut

32:25.954 --> 32:28.121
was concerned at all , anything that ,

32:28.121 --> 32:30.398
that you felt was pathological in , in ,

32:30.398 --> 32:33.194
uh , your loss of appetite due to the

32:33.194 --> 32:35.704
environment or anything ? No , no , I ,

32:35.755 --> 32:37.755
I don't think there's anything that

32:37.755 --> 32:39.977
like I say , I think it , it boils down

32:39.977 --> 32:42.033
to a lot of just too much food , you

32:42.033 --> 32:44.088
know , if you , you bundle up one of

32:44.088 --> 32:46.209
those meals . And uh there's just too

32:46.209 --> 32:48.589
much there to eat . Were any of you

32:48.589 --> 32:51.189
ever thirsty in flight ?

32:52.819 --> 32:56.060
You were dry , yeah , I , I , you were

32:56.060 --> 32:58.060
dry , uh , quite a bit , you know ,

32:58.099 --> 33:00.321
you'd have a sensation of dryness , and

33:00.321 --> 33:02.321
you'd want , and water , you know ,

33:02.321 --> 33:04.488
juice would make you want some while ,

33:04.488 --> 33:06.710
yeah . Did you , while we're at it , we

33:06.710 --> 33:08.932
might just wipe out the water . Did you

33:08.932 --> 33:10.988
guys drink the water in your suits ?

33:10.988 --> 33:13.189
The EVA . I drank all of his . I just

33:13.650 --> 33:15.817
drank about 30 of them I guess . About

33:15.817 --> 33:17.872
30 . On the first one , I don't know

33:17.872 --> 33:20.039
how much of mine I drank . I thought I

33:20.039 --> 33:22.261
emptied the bag , but apparently , uh ,

33:22.261 --> 33:24.261
the walls of the bag got around the

33:24.261 --> 33:26.428
drink tube and I didn't get it all out

33:26.428 --> 33:28.594
because it drained down around my neck

33:28.594 --> 33:32.130
during the sleep period . OK .

33:33.349 --> 33:35.460
OK . I had a leaky one also , which I

33:35.460 --> 33:39.430
took out between EVAs . OK .

33:39.589 --> 33:41.645
Did you fill them up again then when

33:41.645 --> 33:43.756
you went out the second EV ? No . And

33:43.756 --> 33:45.867
you drank about , you think you drank

33:45.867 --> 33:45.550
about 30 years both times ? I'd say ,

33:45.630 --> 33:47.686
yeah , I didn't really stop to drink

33:47.686 --> 33:49.797
too much . Yeah . OK . And I drank on

33:49.797 --> 33:52.239
mine , the second EVA , uh , And I

33:52.239 --> 33:54.350
can't remember whether I drank it all

33:54.350 --> 33:56.350
or not . If I didn't , there may be

33:56.350 --> 33:59.439
some still in it . OK . All right . And

33:59.439 --> 34:01.550
one other comment on , while we're on

34:01.550 --> 34:04.400
that eating , before I forget , uh , we

34:04.400 --> 34:06.344
ran completely out of these , uh ,

34:06.530 --> 34:09.350
bite-sized , uh , packages , you know ,

34:09.639 --> 34:11.806
and to me that was the best , the best

34:11.806 --> 34:14.083
thing we had , these little , you know ,

34:14.083 --> 34:16.306
turkey sandwiches , cheese sandwiches ,

34:16.306 --> 34:18.195
and , uh , and that sort of thing

34:18.195 --> 34:20.528
because that was a no . Sweat operation .

34:20.528 --> 34:22.472
You just clip that off in a can of

34:22.472 --> 34:24.472
juice and you could go at it . So I

34:24.472 --> 34:26.639
really liked those and I ate all those

34:26.639 --> 34:28.806
generally that I could get my hands on

34:28.806 --> 34:31.229
and we ran out of those . Well , we ran

34:31.229 --> 34:33.118
out of most everything else too .

34:35.320 --> 34:37.376
No , not really . I had all kinds of

34:37.376 --> 34:41.329
food . If I may make a comment ,

34:41.448 --> 34:44.489
uh , to that of mine about , about his ,

34:44.559 --> 34:47.198
uh , eating and drinking habits , uh ,

34:47.408 --> 34:50.368
this flight plan is really something

34:50.368 --> 34:52.479
that he worked on , developed for the

34:52.479 --> 34:54.812
flight . It's , it's a busy flight plan .

34:54.812 --> 34:56.590
It's a full one , and it was my

34:56.590 --> 34:58.757
impression that he was more interested

34:58.757 --> 35:00.924
in being sure that the flight plan was

35:00.924 --> 35:03.146
done properly than , uh , than eating .

35:03.146 --> 35:05.368
Oh yeah , I think that affected it to a

35:05.368 --> 35:07.590
great degree , which again gets back to

35:07.590 --> 35:09.701
the level of activity versus the . If

35:09.701 --> 35:12.035
you guys can get a little , for example ,

35:12.035 --> 35:11.810
those drink bags , get a little

35:11.810 --> 35:14.969
diaphragm on the end to stick over a

35:14.969 --> 35:17.080
needle and pump the water in that way

35:17.409 --> 35:19.631
and shake it up , pull the plug out and

35:19.631 --> 35:21.687
drink it out of the same deal , that

35:21.687 --> 35:23.965
would be a lot easier for those drinks .

35:23.965 --> 35:25.965
You mean for the for the juices and

35:25.965 --> 35:28.242
things you mean all the cutting , yeah ,

35:28.242 --> 35:30.465
so that you don't , so you don't end up

35:30.465 --> 35:30.229
having to sort of feel you got to drink

35:30.229 --> 35:32.285
the whole thing once you get it done

35:32.285 --> 35:34.396
you see you got to drink back and you

35:34.396 --> 35:36.507
got a little gnarled the thing that's

35:36.507 --> 35:38.729
all sucked in the plastic is all folded

35:38.729 --> 35:40.896
down unless you got it exactly right .

35:40.896 --> 35:40.159
First of all , you can't get out of the

35:40.159 --> 35:42.215
nozzle without having it leak . Then

35:42.215 --> 35:44.326
you get it all done , then you got to

35:44.326 --> 35:46.437
go cut the other end . And I was just

35:46.437 --> 35:48.492
thinking maybe it might be an easier

35:48.492 --> 35:50.715
way to put a diaphragm fitting on there

35:50.715 --> 35:50.449
that will you could stick over a

35:50.620 --> 35:52.676
hypodermic type of thing and get the

35:52.676 --> 35:54.898
water in that way might be a little bit

35:54.898 --> 35:57.300
quicker way to do it . OK . Anything

35:57.300 --> 35:59.467
you do to make it easier is gonna help

35:59.467 --> 36:01.689
increase the consumption , particularly

36:01.689 --> 36:04.409
during busy time periods . OK , but ,

36:04.419 --> 36:07.010
uh , could we get you , uh , and this

36:07.010 --> 36:09.010
is gonna involve just really , uh ,

36:09.010 --> 36:11.239
Alan , and , uh , Ed , we , we'd like

36:11.239 --> 36:13.479
to have you describe . As well as as

36:13.479 --> 36:16.280
you can , the things that you did with

36:16.280 --> 36:18.520
your uh with your bio instrumentation

36:18.520 --> 36:21.159
harnesses when because it's very hard

36:21.159 --> 36:23.381
for us to be sure exactly what happened

36:23.381 --> 36:25.603
we don't have that stuff back yet we're

36:25.603 --> 36:27.826
gonna set up we've got got to develop a

36:27.826 --> 36:29.992
plan to troubleshoot it and as I under

36:29.992 --> 36:32.159
the thing that happened with yours out

36:32.159 --> 36:34.270
just from our point the actions , not

36:34.270 --> 36:36.492
the words , huh ? Pardon ? You want the

36:36.492 --> 36:38.715
actions , not the words the actions not

36:38.715 --> 36:41.050
the words , yeah , OK . Well , you said

36:41.050 --> 36:44.050
in some of the words too . But what

36:44.370 --> 36:46.426
from our point of view what happened

36:46.426 --> 36:48.770
with your particular uh uh harness is

36:48.770 --> 36:50.992
everything was fine when everybody left

36:50.992 --> 36:54.489
the the the uh MSOB OK ? we got when

36:54.489 --> 36:57.570
you got into the spacecraft right after

36:57.570 --> 36:59.403
you got apparently when you were

36:59.403 --> 37:01.403
getting cinched down somehow , uh ,

37:01.403 --> 37:03.459
because we had about 3 minutes or so

37:03.459 --> 37:06.209
after you were in the in the couch of

37:06.209 --> 37:08.431
good data on you , then we began to get

37:08.431 --> 37:10.542
erratic data . It began to wander the

37:10.542 --> 37:12.653
baseline began to wander all over the

37:12.653 --> 37:15.020
place . Uh , that continued to get

37:15.239 --> 37:17.295
worse and worse , and pretty soon it

37:17.295 --> 37:19.979
was going just full scale , which was

37:20.139 --> 37:22.739
totally unreadable . So the question

37:22.739 --> 37:25.159
was , OK , it was a question about

37:25.159 --> 37:27.270
hatch closure at that point in time .

37:27.560 --> 37:31.429
We , uh , decided right , right then I

37:31.429 --> 37:33.540
said , well , hell , we're gonna go ,

37:33.540 --> 37:35.762
we're gonna go without that because I'm

37:35.762 --> 37:37.873
sure it's a sensor , and the only way

37:37.873 --> 37:39.985
to get at it anyway if you , we asked

37:39.985 --> 37:41.929
you then to try and press on those

37:41.929 --> 37:43.985
things . If that wouldn't do it , if

37:43.985 --> 37:46.318
that wouldn't reseed it , uh , then the ,

37:46.318 --> 37:48.485
the first opportunity would be when we

37:48.485 --> 37:50.485
got you actually in flight . Now we

37:50.485 --> 37:52.651
don't know why , but it came back . It

37:52.651 --> 37:54.651
was gone still , uh , when you went

37:54.651 --> 37:56.762
over Australia as you came back up on

37:56.762 --> 37:58.762
the states magically , there we had

37:58.762 --> 38:01.000
data , and we went back to the MSOB

38:01.000 --> 38:03.860
from the firing room to catch that pass ,

38:04.080 --> 38:06.136
and there you were , whap , that was

38:06.136 --> 38:08.358
beautiful , just as if nothing had ever

38:08.358 --> 38:10.524
happened . And you hadn't done a thing

38:10.524 --> 38:12.747
because then we asked them , you know ,

38:12.747 --> 38:14.913
have you done anything ? Now , uh , as

38:14.913 --> 38:17.024
we understand when you looked at that

38:17.024 --> 38:18.969
sensor then that you did have some

38:18.969 --> 38:21.302
material that had leaked out from under ,

38:21.302 --> 38:23.136
underneath it , and you , and we

38:23.136 --> 38:25.247
understand that you replaced that you

38:25.247 --> 38:27.358
cleaned up and replaced that sensor ,

38:27.358 --> 38:29.469
is that right ? We didn't replace the

38:29.469 --> 38:31.302
sensor , no . OK , just to clean

38:31.302 --> 38:33.358
cleaned it off , refilled it , put a

38:33.358 --> 38:35.580
new sticky back on it , and put it back

38:35.580 --> 38:37.636
on . Yeah , OK . That was the second

38:37.636 --> 38:39.747
day of the flight though . Yeah , the

38:39.747 --> 38:41.802
day , right , yeah , that , that was

38:41.802 --> 38:43.802
the first time that we really , and

38:43.802 --> 38:43.600
that we asked you to do that then

38:43.600 --> 38:45.711
because we thought we'd get it out of

38:45.711 --> 38:47.878
the way before you got into the , OK ,

38:47.878 --> 38:50.100
and then you had another I also changed

38:50.100 --> 38:52.909
the adapter , the CWG adapter , because

38:52.909 --> 38:55.076
at one time on the flight they said my

38:55.076 --> 38:57.076
comm wasn't very good . Yeah , your

38:57.076 --> 38:59.131
comm was terrible , right ? We had a

38:59.131 --> 39:01.465
spare adapter . Uh , so we changed that .

39:01.465 --> 39:01.199
Uh , exactly when that was , I don't

39:01.199 --> 39:03.477
know , but . That was pretty early too .

39:03.477 --> 39:05.699
I think it was the first day . Yeah , I

39:05.699 --> 39:07.866
think it was the first day . Uh , uh ,

39:07.866 --> 39:09.643
well , that was the Lord . That

39:09.643 --> 39:09.479
wouldn't have anything to do with the

39:09.479 --> 39:11.812
launch problem because , of course , uh .

39:12.360 --> 39:14.830
No . And we had a , we had a , uh ,

39:14.870 --> 39:16.703
respiration on you . You can see

39:16.703 --> 39:18.870
respiration , but we didn't have the .

39:18.870 --> 39:20.814
That's good . Yeah , yeah , but we

39:20.814 --> 39:23.250
didn't have an ECG . That's very

39:23.250 --> 39:25.528
reassuring to me . That's right . Good .

39:25.590 --> 39:27.201
Yeah , can you correlate the

39:27.201 --> 39:29.257
reappearance of your EKG signal with

39:29.257 --> 39:31.201
any flight plane activity that you

39:31.201 --> 39:33.257
might have been doing ? I sure can .

39:33.257 --> 39:35.479
I'm just as mystified about that as you

39:35.479 --> 39:35.290
were . I tried to press it through the

39:35.290 --> 39:37.401
suit and everything . It happened you

39:37.401 --> 39:39.568
can't feel anything through the suit .

39:39.568 --> 39:41.734
Well , you were free then though . You

39:41.734 --> 39:41.290
had your helmet and gloves off . It was

39:41.290 --> 39:44.409
one hour and 30 minutes GET . I don't

39:44.409 --> 39:46.520
know if that rings any bells to you .

39:46.520 --> 39:48.742
Helmets and gloves are off at that time

39:48.742 --> 39:50.853
and we're moving around with the post

39:50.853 --> 39:52.909
insertion checklist and there's some

39:52.909 --> 39:54.965
movement in the couch , so I dive in

39:54.965 --> 39:54.659
and get some things and pull them out

39:54.659 --> 39:56.492
and do that sort of stuff . It's

39:56.492 --> 39:58.659
probably , it's just gotta be that you

39:58.659 --> 40:00.603
were probably just , it was in the

40:00.603 --> 40:02.770
cinching down in the in the couch that

40:02.770 --> 40:04.937
it probably loosened that edge of that

40:04.937 --> 40:07.159
sensor somehow a little bit and uh I

40:07.159 --> 40:09.770
don't know why . Right . Or put a crimp

40:09.770 --> 40:12.120
in a lead or brought it into contact

40:12.120 --> 40:14.580
with something else , yeah , because it

40:14.580 --> 40:16.691
sure came back fine after that . OK .

40:16.780 --> 40:19.002
Then the second time , what , what else

40:19.002 --> 40:21.113
then did you have with , with yours ,

40:21.113 --> 40:23.169
Al , from your point ? What else did

40:23.169 --> 40:25.391
you do to the thing on ? The only other

40:25.391 --> 40:27.502
thing I noticed was about the next to

40:27.502 --> 40:31.179
the last day that the thread coupling

40:31.179 --> 40:33.020
between the sensor line , sensor

40:33.020 --> 40:36.830
harness , and the belt . Little

40:36.830 --> 40:38.997
transducer in the belt . Yeah , on top

40:38.997 --> 40:41.219
of the signal conditioning . Yeah , had

40:41.219 --> 40:43.330
to strip the threads . I could get it

40:43.330 --> 40:45.219
to hold a little bit , and , uh ,

40:45.219 --> 40:47.330
apparently the signal was fine , then

40:47.330 --> 40:47.179
it would slip off . Right , it came

40:47.179 --> 40:49.346
back beautifully when you tighten it .

40:49.429 --> 40:51.651
But then when I unsuited at the end , I

40:51.651 --> 40:53.818
noticed that was loose , so . OK . The

40:53.818 --> 40:56.040
threads apparently stripped on that . I

40:56.040 --> 40:58.669
got it cranked down too hard . Did , uh ,

40:58.870 --> 41:01.465
excuse me . Did , did you , To , uh ,

41:01.485 --> 41:04.364
routinely , uh , disconnect that

41:04.364 --> 41:06.586
connector at the signal conditioner for

41:06.586 --> 41:08.854
sleep or , for , uh , bowel movements

41:08.854 --> 41:10.743
or anything like that , for bowel

41:10.743 --> 41:12.632
movements and for swabbing down ,

41:12.632 --> 41:14.854
cleaning out process , yeah . Anytime ,

41:15.125 --> 41:17.292
anytime you pulled your clothes off to

41:17.292 --> 41:19.754
either change clothes or , or , uh ,

41:19.885 --> 41:22.395
put on the LCG or use the blue bags ,

41:22.445 --> 41:24.445
what have you , we all end up doing

41:24.445 --> 41:28.120
that . OK . OK .

41:29.350 --> 41:31.750
And then , uh , you didn't replace

41:31.750 --> 41:33.972
anything . You didn't do it , have to ,

41:33.972 --> 41:36.449
uh , reseat any sensor after that .

41:36.459 --> 41:38.570
That was the only other thing you had

41:38.570 --> 41:40.515
was the was the only time I took a

41:40.515 --> 41:42.737
sensor off . Was that first . That call

41:42.737 --> 41:44.959
was correct because when we took it off

41:44.959 --> 41:43.949
you could see the seepage of .

41:44.659 --> 41:48.189
Electrolyte right . Same with the ,

41:48.719 --> 41:50.959
OK . How about yours then ? The only

41:50.959 --> 41:53.015
thing I replaced was that one sensor

41:53.479 --> 41:55.709
which one was it ? And it was , uh ,

41:55.929 --> 41:58.151
same replace the whole sensor . I don't

41:58.151 --> 42:00.318
mean replacements and trap . We pulled

42:00.318 --> 42:02.429
it off , cleaned it out , refilled it

42:02.429 --> 42:04.596
with electrolyte , put it back on . It

42:04.596 --> 42:04.500
was the same , just the same outfit

42:04.500 --> 42:06.870
donuts , no sticky donut , OK . You did

42:06.870 --> 42:09.149
not take the harness out of the kit and

42:09.149 --> 42:11.316
replace the whole thing , OK , because

42:11.316 --> 42:13.316
that's what we thought you had done

42:13.316 --> 42:15.427
that , and , uh , that you called and

42:15.427 --> 42:15.350
asked me that , but there wasn't time

42:15.350 --> 42:17.406
to do it , so we took , I'm glad you

42:17.406 --> 42:19.461
couldn't hear what we said when we ,

42:19.461 --> 42:21.572
when you guys said that . We took the

42:21.572 --> 42:23.794
chance that the real problem was simply

42:23.794 --> 42:25.850
the sensor and the electrolyte , and

42:25.850 --> 42:25.600
that's what it was . That's exactly

42:25.600 --> 42:27.822
what it was . We couldn't have picked a

42:27.822 --> 42:29.711
worse time from the standpoint of

42:29.711 --> 42:31.822
timeline . Is that right ? We're just

42:31.822 --> 42:31.040
getting ready to go into the lab , you

42:31.040 --> 42:33.096
know , and boy , everybody's all and

42:33.096 --> 42:36.719
elbows and suits and underwear and gear

42:36.719 --> 42:38.830
and books and everything all over the

42:38.830 --> 42:40.830
place . And I , I was sitting there

42:40.830 --> 42:42.997
half dressed . I didn't want to go any

42:42.997 --> 42:45.052
further until we got a go on it . We

42:45.052 --> 42:44.979
couldn't get the high bit rate up for

42:44.979 --> 42:47.219
you guys to look at it . Right . And so

42:47.219 --> 42:49.441
I remember that . There just wasn't any

42:49.441 --> 42:51.608
time left , so we changed that . And I

42:51.608 --> 42:51.225
went ahead and dressed . Hey Ed , you

42:51.225 --> 42:53.392
know , when you came up there though ,

42:53.392 --> 42:55.614
the , the , uh , the data , you gave us

42:55.614 --> 42:57.781
about 2 minutes when the high gain did

42:57.781 --> 42:59.836
lock on and we got 2 minutes of data

42:59.836 --> 43:01.725
and it still showed the the loose

43:01.725 --> 43:03.781
sensor . Now what did you , what did

43:03.781 --> 43:06.003
you do the second time ? Did you , uh ,

43:06.544 --> 43:08.655
you came up and asked us how the data

43:08.655 --> 43:10.766
looked , and we said it looked poor ,

43:10.766 --> 43:12.988
yet we gave you no go on the suiting to

43:12.988 --> 43:14.988
to change out the harness . I don't

43:14.988 --> 43:17.965
recall exactly the sequence of events .

43:19.979 --> 43:23.610
When , when I called and asked for you

43:23.610 --> 43:26.449
to check it , as far as I know , we did

43:26.449 --> 43:28.770
nothing after that except make sure

43:28.770 --> 43:30.826
everything was cinched down and went

43:30.826 --> 43:33.048
ahead and dressed . Didn't , didn't you

43:33.048 --> 43:35.214
do something with the , with the fluid

43:35.214 --> 43:37.214
in there ? Yeah , but I had already

43:37.214 --> 43:39.548
done it at that point . I did that once .

43:39.548 --> 43:41.714
We did the , I changed the electrolyte

43:41.714 --> 43:43.714
when I called and asked you guys to

43:43.714 --> 43:46.239
check it . Uh , I did nothing after

43:46.239 --> 43:48.350
that except just make sure everything

43:48.350 --> 43:50.461
was secure , yeah , because you see ,

43:50.461 --> 43:52.628
the first time you called the data was

43:52.628 --> 43:54.739
poor , and that was the basis for the

43:54.739 --> 43:54.040
call to change out the whole harness

43:54.040 --> 43:56.262
because we said , well , it wasn't that

43:56.262 --> 43:58.429
sensor and we didn't have time to talk

43:58.429 --> 44:00.540
to you because LOS was coming up , so

44:00.540 --> 44:00.159
we said go ahead and change out the

44:00.159 --> 44:02.215
whole thing . But whatever you did ,

44:02.215 --> 44:04.381
they subsequently corrected it because

44:04.381 --> 44:06.215
it came back beautifully , so we

44:06.215 --> 44:08.437
assumed you'd just change out the whole

44:08.437 --> 44:08.360
harness . We sprinkle a little holy

44:08.360 --> 44:09.916
water on it , yeah , yeah .

44:12.239 --> 44:14.239
See , now that you mention it , you

44:14.239 --> 44:16.560
know , I just can't remember precisely

44:16.560 --> 44:18.800
when we changed it , but I'm , but I'm

44:18.800 --> 44:21.022
thinking that it was already changed at

44:21.022 --> 44:24.810
that point . Oh , OK . And it , uh ,

44:24.919 --> 44:27.399
it was this the lower sternum ? It was

44:27.399 --> 44:29.399
the lower sternum . Same as same as

44:29.399 --> 44:31.288
Al's . Then they changed . It was

44:31.288 --> 44:33.455
electrolyte that was replaced . Yeah .

44:33.455 --> 44:35.232
What I've been taking it off by

44:35.232 --> 44:35.000
changing , taking it off and cleaning

44:35.000 --> 44:37.000
it , putting little . Put it back ,

44:37.000 --> 44:39.379
just sticking it back . OK . And , and

44:39.379 --> 44:41.379
you think you did that before LOS ?

44:42.889 --> 44:44.889
Yeah , he probably did . What we're

44:44.889 --> 44:47.000
thinking now happened probably took a

44:47.000 --> 44:49.111
while for it to seep properly , and ,

44:49.111 --> 44:51.167
uh , when he came around it was good

44:51.167 --> 44:53.409
because . Well , his state stayed good

44:53.409 --> 44:55.465
then and then we were having trouble

44:55.465 --> 44:57.576
with yours going and you began to get

44:57.576 --> 45:00.090
this wandering baseline on yours again

45:00.090 --> 45:02.146
before the , you know , after we got

45:02.146 --> 45:04.257
into the limb so there was a question

45:04.257 --> 45:06.423
in our minds about it is there any way

45:06.423 --> 45:08.312
we could do to , to , to get that

45:08.312 --> 45:10.534
better , you know , to make that better

45:10.534 --> 45:12.590
and we're trying to find , trying to

45:12.590 --> 45:14.757
figure some way could you reach around

45:14.757 --> 45:16.812
when you were in the soup ? Is there

45:16.812 --> 45:16.715
any way you could get . That that thing

45:16.715 --> 45:18.937
if you took like after the EVA , if you

45:18.937 --> 45:21.235
ended up taking the helmet off , uh ,

45:21.435 --> 45:23.602
could you get down into the , into the

45:23.602 --> 45:25.713
suit here you really have to have the

45:25.713 --> 45:27.768
upper torso garment , uh , the upper

45:27.768 --> 45:29.935
part of the torso garment clear of the

45:29.935 --> 45:32.046
body in order to be able to feel that

45:32.046 --> 45:31.314
in order to even feel it . There's no

45:31.314 --> 45:33.370
way you can definitely tell you know

45:33.370 --> 45:35.370
the other guy goes through the back

45:35.370 --> 45:37.536
zippered around in front that we tried

45:37.536 --> 45:39.703
that on the ground to see if you could

45:39.703 --> 45:39.574
do that and that's pretty hard to do .

45:39.905 --> 45:41.961
We found that the most you can do is

45:41.961 --> 45:43.738
press on it after all that time

45:43.738 --> 45:45.849
quarantined , that's pretty dangerous

45:45.849 --> 45:49.649
too , yeah , yeah . Depends on where

45:49.649 --> 45:52.209
your hands end up . OK . All right .

45:53.739 --> 45:55.961
Forget the EBA . Just keep fooling with

45:55.961 --> 45:59.699
my sensor . You've got 2 hours

45:59.790 --> 46:02.000
to stop that . Oh ,

46:04.889 --> 46:07.600
OK . Uh ,

46:09.419 --> 46:12.060
did , uh , the , the thing we got from

46:12.060 --> 46:14.979
the sleep , and I , uh , which I think

46:14.979 --> 46:16.979
is fairly well covered , but if you

46:16.979 --> 46:19.090
have anything to add to that , well ,

46:19.090 --> 46:21.312
we , we'd like you to , but what we got

46:21.312 --> 46:23.312
out of it is that all of you pretty

46:23.312 --> 46:25.540
well never really had a , a solid long

46:25.540 --> 46:27.707
sleep period that it was broken and it

46:27.707 --> 46:29.873
was things like a couple of hours at a

46:29.873 --> 46:31.984
time or something , and I gather that

46:31.984 --> 46:34.340
the , the reasons for that varied . You

46:34.340 --> 46:37.125
had , uh . Some difficulty with , with

46:37.125 --> 46:39.925
the , uh , wanting , wanting to feel

46:39.925 --> 46:42.036
some pressure in Ed's case I know and

46:42.036 --> 46:44.203
this Al mentioned this too and , and ,

46:44.203 --> 46:46.544
uh , Stu , uh didn't like the couch and ,

46:46.784 --> 46:49.117
and then he ended up uh in the limb the ,

46:49.804 --> 46:51.860
the thing was being in the suits all

46:51.860 --> 46:54.026
the time and then the tilt of the limb

46:54.026 --> 46:56.193
too . Both those things probably had a

46:56.193 --> 46:58.360
lot to do with the sleep activity . Is

46:58.360 --> 47:00.471
there anything else that you can that

47:00.471 --> 46:59.804
you that you think you can add ? Did

46:59.804 --> 47:01.693
you feel that you , that you were

47:01.693 --> 47:03.860
rested enough to do the task even with

47:03.860 --> 47:05.971
the sleep that you had ? Yeah , but I

47:05.971 --> 47:07.971
think we were working on reserves .

47:07.971 --> 47:10.193
Yeah , I do too . Well , there were two

47:10.193 --> 47:13.270
days that we felt sloppy . One was the

47:13.270 --> 47:16.040
2nd day out after the after the

47:16.040 --> 47:18.262
excitement of the launch and all that .

47:18.429 --> 47:21.149
Activity and being coming , becoming

47:21.149 --> 47:23.790
acclimated to the new environment . So

47:23.790 --> 47:26.012
we felt like we weren't really clicking

47:26.012 --> 47:28.929
along too well um . Yeah , and the day

47:28.929 --> 47:31.096
after TEI , although we all apparently

47:31.096 --> 47:33.810
slept better after TEI that night , I

47:33.810 --> 47:35.921
guess it was probably the in terms of

47:36.050 --> 47:38.217
continuous sleep was probably the best

47:38.217 --> 47:40.272
night that we had . Still , the next

47:40.272 --> 47:42.272
day we felt like we were not really

47:42.272 --> 47:44.606
organized and we're getting things done ,

47:44.606 --> 47:46.661
but the little things were not being

47:46.661 --> 47:48.772
handled as neatly as we would like to

47:48.772 --> 47:50.828
see them . So these are the only two

47:50.828 --> 47:52.994
days we felt that we weren't on top of

47:52.994 --> 47:55.360
the bloodline . I think Chuck , I feel

47:55.360 --> 47:58.520
that that for no longer than we worked

47:58.520 --> 48:02.239
for 9 days that you can get along on a

48:02.239 --> 48:04.479
fairly small amount of sleep and just

48:04.479 --> 48:06.590
your reserves and your discipline and

48:06.590 --> 48:08.646
everything else makes you do the job

48:08.646 --> 48:10.760
properly , but in my case I felt very

48:10.760 --> 48:14.669
strongly that I was on reserves , that

48:15.040 --> 48:18.030
physically I was going downhill , and

48:19.760 --> 48:21.871
it was of some . Concern to me that I

48:21.871 --> 48:24.038
wasn't getting enough sleep . I knew I

48:24.038 --> 48:26.260
wasn't getting enough sleep , and yet I

48:26.260 --> 48:28.260
felt fairly wide awake and alert on

48:28.260 --> 48:30.427
most of the days except the two days I

48:30.427 --> 48:32.593
was talking about . But sleeping to me

48:32.593 --> 48:35.385
was a very insecure experience . And

48:35.485 --> 48:37.707
now how do you mean insecure ? You mean

48:37.707 --> 48:39.596
because of this wanting , wanting

48:39.596 --> 48:41.818
something , yeah , wanting to feel like

48:41.818 --> 48:43.874
you , the best I can say , feel like

48:43.874 --> 48:45.985
you were in a bed . Yeah . Wanting to

48:45.985 --> 48:48.152
feel some pressure , or to be lying on

48:48.152 --> 48:50.318
something . It was a pleasant you turn

48:50.318 --> 48:52.580
the tape recorder . I ,

48:54.550 --> 48:57.350
I knew we'd get back to that . Uh , it

48:57.350 --> 48:59.517
was really a pleasant experience to be

48:59.517 --> 49:02.250
in zerog during the daytime . I thought

49:02.250 --> 49:04.030
it wasn't quite so pleasant an

49:04.030 --> 49:06.189
experience at night . Well , did you

49:06.189 --> 49:08.245
feel that brings up this thing ? Did

49:08.245 --> 49:10.411
you feel , I gather from Al's comments

49:10.411 --> 49:12.522
in particular , uh , this business of

49:12.522 --> 49:14.633
using your legs and your , and your ,

49:14.633 --> 49:16.411
uh , feet to try and hang on to

49:16.411 --> 49:18.649
something which has been described by ,

49:18.659 --> 49:20.881
by . Other guys too at at some length ,

49:21.027 --> 49:23.386
uh , did , did you have a feeling that

49:23.396 --> 49:25.285
that was the cause of this muscle

49:25.285 --> 49:27.507
business in your back more than because

49:27.616 --> 49:29.560
you know that's been described and

49:29.560 --> 49:31.783
they've never been able to really put a

49:31.783 --> 49:33.894
handle on why they felt they had that

49:33.894 --> 49:36.116
they've had this sort of a feeling that

49:36.116 --> 49:38.172
if they could just stretch that real

49:38.172 --> 49:37.947
good it'd be great . You think it is

49:37.947 --> 49:39.836
due to the fact that you had were

49:39.836 --> 49:42.343
trying to lock onto something . Yeah ,

49:42.523 --> 49:44.724
as soon as that's what I analyzed it

49:44.724 --> 49:46.668
after the first couple of days , I

49:46.668 --> 49:48.724
think we discussed it as a matter of

49:48.724 --> 49:50.946
fact , and so we started exercising and

49:50.946 --> 49:52.891
then deliberately take time out to

49:52.891 --> 49:55.057
relax not only during the sleep period

49:55.057 --> 49:57.113
but also try to adapt ourselves to a

49:57.113 --> 49:59.523
relaxed state during the awake periods

49:59.523 --> 50:02.083
in the seats or on the optics or in the

50:02.083 --> 50:04.305
tunnel or something . And after the 2nd

50:04.305 --> 50:06.527
day . Kind of went away . Yeah , that ,

50:06.527 --> 50:08.750
that small of the back problem was gone

50:08.750 --> 50:11.083
after a couple of days . And uh in fact ,

50:11.083 --> 50:13.311
I was kind of surprised at , at that ,

50:13.321 --> 50:16.260
I woke up that first morning and my

50:16.260 --> 50:18.371
back had bothered me during the night

50:18.371 --> 50:22.141
and uh I didn't realize that uh Alan

50:22.141 --> 50:24.980
Ed's had a back was bothering him at

50:24.980 --> 50:27.202
that time too , you know , and I said .

50:27.202 --> 50:29.202
You know , I really didn't get that

50:29.202 --> 50:31.313
much sleep , but this sounds crazy as

50:31.313 --> 50:34.590
all hell because I can lay on that big

50:34.590 --> 50:36.909
fine king size bed at the house , and

50:36.909 --> 50:39.310
if I get a lot of sleep , you know , if

50:39.310 --> 50:41.366
I lay there for say 10 or 11 hours ,

50:41.469 --> 50:43.691
why , uh , the small of my back bothers

50:43.691 --> 50:45.913
me , and I , and I said to these guys ,

50:45.913 --> 50:48.136
I said , hey , this is crazy . I didn't

50:48.136 --> 50:50.136
sleep that much last night , but my

50:50.136 --> 50:52.302
back feels just like I've got about 11

50:52.302 --> 50:52.179
hours sleep , and they said , well ,

50:52.270 --> 50:54.381
mine does too , and then , you know ,

50:54.381 --> 50:56.548
then we got to talking about it and uh

50:56.548 --> 50:58.615
but it was . There and it was very

50:58.615 --> 51:00.835
conscious to me that first night . In

51:00.835 --> 51:03.002
fact , I thought probably my back kept

51:03.002 --> 51:05.113
me from going to sleep as much as the

51:05.113 --> 51:07.168
new environment . Yeah . Uh , rather

51:07.168 --> 51:09.224
than the zero G because I was always

51:09.224 --> 51:11.446
conscious of my back bothering me . Did

51:11.446 --> 51:13.613
you ever think about taking aspirin or

51:13.613 --> 51:15.835
anything to do anything with that ? Did

51:15.835 --> 51:18.002
you ? I've never take aspirin at all .

51:18.002 --> 51:19.946
For the . No . For the a thing ? I

51:19.946 --> 51:22.113
think until the time we discussed it ,

51:22.113 --> 51:24.535
I was convinced that the reason I was

51:24.535 --> 51:27.721
feeling bad in the back was , Just not

51:27.721 --> 51:30.054
urinating for so long during that whole .

51:30.122 --> 51:32.344
I wondered if you wouldn't think that .

51:32.344 --> 51:34.289
I did think that . Yeah . And then

51:34.289 --> 51:36.622
after we started discussing it , I said ,

51:36.622 --> 51:38.733
well , that may not be the problem or

51:38.733 --> 51:41.066
if so , that's just part of the problem .

51:41.066 --> 51:40.912
Everybody's got it . Everybody's got it .

51:41.021 --> 51:43.021
Yeah . And I agree with that it has

51:43.021 --> 51:45.243
something to do with the way you try to

51:45.243 --> 51:47.410
use your feet , uh , to , to stabilize

51:47.410 --> 51:49.951
yourself . And I found , I believe ,

51:50.122 --> 51:52.122
although I couldn't see myself , I

51:52.122 --> 51:54.344
believe that when I was relaxing in the

51:54.344 --> 51:56.781
spacecraft , I was in a curved position .

51:57.919 --> 51:59.969
And it felt good to to throw the

51:59.969 --> 52:02.191
shoulders back and straighten out or to

52:02.191 --> 52:04.413
take the extra gym and get some tension

52:04.413 --> 52:06.580
on those back muscles . You , you tend

52:06.580 --> 52:08.802
to assume a sort of it's sort of like a

52:08.802 --> 52:10.858
fetal position . If you just totally

52:10.858 --> 52:13.479
relax your legs will tend to , to float

52:13.479 --> 52:15.959
up and come , come up in a sort of a

52:15.959 --> 52:18.070
semi-seated and your hands would tend

52:18.070 --> 52:20.181
to float out about like this and your

52:20.181 --> 52:22.348
back tends to bend them so it tends to

52:22.348 --> 52:24.459
assume that kind of a position if you

52:24.459 --> 52:26.570
just let them . All your muscles go ,

52:26.570 --> 52:26.123
so you don't have any muscle pulled up .

52:26.542 --> 52:28.764
Oh , I'll tell you that one of the good

52:28.764 --> 52:30.598
things for that back too is just

52:30.598 --> 52:32.431
exactly that position . Just get

52:32.431 --> 52:34.598
yourself up like this . That's right .

52:34.598 --> 52:36.764
And , and I know that first night when

52:36.764 --> 52:38.931
my back was bothering me , I , I tried

52:38.931 --> 52:38.482
to sleep a good bit . I'd reach down

52:38.482 --> 52:41.292
and grab a hold of my , of my booties ,

52:41.583 --> 52:43.639
and I would lay there like that with

52:43.639 --> 52:46.343
pulling some pressure on my legs , and

52:46.343 --> 52:48.343
it would , and it would really help

52:48.343 --> 52:50.686
that , that smaller your back , uh . I

52:50.686 --> 52:52.853
found both things either straighten it

52:52.853 --> 52:54.853
out to put some tension on the back

52:54.853 --> 52:56.908
muscles , or as Stu says , double on

52:56.908 --> 52:59.926
out and pull the other way . Did , how

52:59.926 --> 53:01.759
about when you got back onto the

53:01.759 --> 53:03.982
carrier now and you got into a bed then

53:03.982 --> 53:06.148
for the first time back on , on , uh ,

53:06.148 --> 53:08.315
in a 1G environment , did you have any

53:08.315 --> 53:10.537
feeling ? Did you have the feeling that

53:10.537 --> 53:12.537
you were real heavy , that you were

53:12.537 --> 53:14.537
sinking into the bed ? Did you have

53:14.537 --> 53:14.325
that when you were on a table or

53:14.325 --> 53:16.547
anything on the X-ray table or anything

53:16.547 --> 53:19.300
of that sort ? None of you experienced

53:19.300 --> 53:22.290
that . How about weight of clothes ?

53:23.030 --> 53:25.790
Did you have a pants were too heavy or

53:25.790 --> 53:28.012
they were falling or anything like that

53:28.012 --> 53:30.689
when you first got back ? The only

53:30.689 --> 53:32.856
thing I can remember about laying down

53:32.856 --> 53:35.078
on the bunk was it was uh it was a good

53:35.078 --> 53:37.189
relief to be able to lay on your , on

53:37.189 --> 53:38.967
your stomach , you know , I , I

53:38.967 --> 53:41.022
generally , I don't know which way I

53:41.022 --> 53:43.189
sleep most , back or stomach or what ,

53:43.189 --> 53:44.967
but you know , I always had the

53:44.967 --> 53:47.078
impression no matter in what position

53:47.078 --> 53:49.133
you are in the , in the spacecraft ,

53:49.133 --> 53:52.580
you're on your back . And , uh , so I

53:52.580 --> 53:54.691
remember thinking of that . The first

53:54.691 --> 53:56.691
thing I laid down in the bunk was I

53:56.691 --> 53:58.969
stretched out on my back and I thought ,

53:58.969 --> 54:01.191
gee , I've been this way for 9 days . I

54:01.191 --> 54:00.820
think I'll turn over . So I rolled over

54:00.820 --> 54:02.979
on my stomach . It felt pretty good .

54:05.530 --> 54:07.697
OK . Did any of you have any dreams at

54:07.697 --> 54:09.808
all ? Did you ever dream of flying at

54:09.808 --> 54:11.863
all ? I did , but I couldn't for the

54:11.863 --> 54:13.863
life of me recall . Well , that's .

54:13.863 --> 54:16.030
That doesn't matter . Yeah , I , I had

54:16.030 --> 54:17.808
dreams . But you did have dream

54:17.808 --> 54:19.697
activity at least in the . Yeah .

54:19.697 --> 54:21.808
Syringes . Good . OK . Yeah , I think

54:21.808 --> 54:24.239
of that heavy feeling junk , uh , The

54:24.239 --> 54:26.461
only time I noticed it was after we had

54:26.461 --> 54:28.739
landed , we're still in the spacecraft .

54:28.739 --> 54:30.795
We unstrapped and the spacecraft was

54:30.795 --> 54:33.017
bobbing around a little bit but not too

54:33.017 --> 54:35.128
much . Got down on the LEB right away

54:35.128 --> 54:36.906
and the first couple of steps ,

54:36.906 --> 54:38.572
combination of the rocket and

54:38.572 --> 54:42.060
spacecraft and . Being in 1G again for

54:42.060 --> 54:43.893
perhaps , uh , I don't know , 30

54:43.893 --> 54:46.227
seconds , no more than that , certainly .

54:46.227 --> 54:48.171
That was my experience too . And I

54:48.171 --> 54:50.116
started doing some deep knee bends

54:50.116 --> 54:52.282
right away for , you know , maybe 1012

54:52.282 --> 54:54.338
of those babies and , uh , and I was

54:54.338 --> 54:56.504
right back at home again and continued

54:56.504 --> 54:58.727
to feel that way . No muscle soreness ,

54:58.727 --> 54:58.179
no feeling of heaviness or anything .

54:59.479 --> 55:01.257
Did you , this feeling that you

55:01.257 --> 55:03.479
experienced when you first went down to

55:03.479 --> 55:05.646
the LAB , was that , was that all over

55:05.646 --> 55:07.812
or was that just heaviness in the legs

55:07.812 --> 55:10.035
or did you just feel heavy all over for

55:10.035 --> 55:12.201
a few seconds all over just all over .

55:12.201 --> 55:14.535
How about when you , when you first got ,

55:14.535 --> 55:16.701
got some G on , on reentry , did , did

55:16.701 --> 55:18.923
you have a sensation that you had a lot

55:18.923 --> 55:20.757
more G than , than you're really

55:20.757 --> 55:22.979
registering ? Did you go through that ?

55:22.979 --> 55:25.201
I don't remember anything over 2g . Was

55:25.201 --> 55:28.280
I supposed to ? Of course these two

55:28.399 --> 55:32.300
guys were you don't . You blanked out ,

55:33.320 --> 55:37.239
everybody else has done . No , I think

55:37.239 --> 55:40.790
you become uh very sensitive to , uh ,

55:40.800 --> 55:44.679
G , like even , even on , uh , in ,

55:44.760 --> 55:47.820
in the spacecraft , you know , or the ,

55:48.989 --> 55:51.211
uh , well , that'd be just the one only

55:51.211 --> 55:53.433
time you'd really feel a G would be the

55:53.433 --> 55:55.433
LH , as well as the SPS engine , of

55:55.433 --> 55:57.545
course , you know it , but on entry ,

55:57.545 --> 55:59.711
certainly , you know , as you're going

55:59.711 --> 56:01.878
through 1G . Uh , it certainly doesn't

56:01.878 --> 56:04.045
seem like one G . It , it's , you're ,

56:04.045 --> 56:06.322
you're sensitive to the G . Since , uh ,

56:06.322 --> 56:08.267
I wasn't quite as busy during that

56:08.267 --> 56:10.405
initial period as , as they were . I

56:10.405 --> 56:12.564
didn't have tracking tasks to keep me

56:12.564 --> 56:15.844
occupied . Uh , I probably felt it more

56:15.844 --> 56:17.955
or was conscious of it more than they

56:17.955 --> 56:20.122
were , and it felt to me like one hell

56:20.122 --> 56:24.110
of a load , uh . In particular , my

56:24.290 --> 56:26.346
one task was to be watching the time

56:26.510 --> 56:28.732
and I couldn't get my arm up to see the

56:28.732 --> 56:31.500
watches until after PG let off . And

56:31.500 --> 56:33.667
then about 4 or 5G I could pull my arm

56:33.667 --> 56:35.722
up and take a look at it . OK . Uh ,

56:35.722 --> 56:37.944
and I had the same sensation that I did

56:39.030 --> 56:41.197
right after I got out of the couch , I

56:41.197 --> 56:43.310
felt very , very heavy and then with

56:43.310 --> 56:45.590
just a little bit of motion , it seemed

56:45.590 --> 56:48.084
to go away . And I'd say it kind of

56:48.084 --> 56:52.074
described a very uh sharp rise , the

56:52.074 --> 56:54.241
return to normal was a very sharp rise

56:54.241 --> 56:56.175
and then an asymptotic to , to 1g

56:56.175 --> 56:58.231
because I still stumbled a couple of

56:58.231 --> 57:00.342
times getting out of the helicopter ,

57:00.342 --> 57:02.397
but I felt fine except I just didn't

57:02.397 --> 57:04.397
have the sureness of footing that I

57:04.397 --> 57:06.453
would like to have . But that didn't

57:06.453 --> 57:08.655
last as far as footing , you know ,

57:08.854 --> 57:10.965
that's an interesting thing . Uh that

57:10.965 --> 57:12.965
the Russians had after their 18 day

57:12.965 --> 57:14.743
fight they had some real marked

57:15.159 --> 57:18.020
mobility problems that lasted for days

57:18.020 --> 57:20.479
and you didn't have , uh , we've never

57:20.479 --> 57:22.368
had anything of that degree we've

57:22.368 --> 57:24.701
always had some initial footing problem ,

57:24.701 --> 57:26.868
you know , just getting , getting used

57:26.868 --> 57:29.090
to being back in the 1G environment and

57:29.090 --> 57:31.146
then you're on a ship too , which is

57:31.146 --> 57:33.257
moving around and uh this didn't last

57:33.257 --> 57:35.423
for any of you for longer . Than a few

57:35.423 --> 57:37.757
minutes really getting out of the house .

57:37.757 --> 57:39.923
I never felt lightheaded at all . No ,

57:39.923 --> 57:42.035
neither did I lightheaded . How about

57:42.035 --> 57:44.201
putting your feet in the right place ?

57:44.201 --> 57:43.625
Did you feel like when you were walking

57:43.625 --> 57:45.955
that you were walking normally on the ,

57:46.584 --> 57:48.362
that your steps were normal and

57:48.362 --> 57:50.473
everything , you didn't have to worry

57:50.473 --> 57:52.695
about where your feet were ? No , I , I

57:52.695 --> 57:54.751
think that up to the point we got in

57:54.751 --> 57:58.300
the MQF , I felt that , uh , I took a

57:58.300 --> 58:00.356
little care to make sure my foot was

58:00.356 --> 58:02.689
going where it was supposed to be going ,

58:02.739 --> 58:06.050
but it wasn't out of the ordinary . You

58:06.050 --> 58:08.161
know , really severe or anything . It

58:08.161 --> 58:10.161
seemed to be improving very rapidly

58:10.161 --> 58:12.328
from a very heavy state for the 1st 30

58:12.328 --> 58:14.383
to 45 seconds after I got out of the

58:14.383 --> 58:16.889
couch to within an hour or so after I

58:16.889 --> 58:19.000
was in the MQF , the footing was very

58:19.000 --> 58:21.449
short , but I do remember stumbling

58:21.449 --> 58:23.560
once going to into the MQF from the

58:23.560 --> 58:26.239
helicopter , uh , and I didn't see

58:26.239 --> 58:28.350
anything to stumble over . I just , I

58:28.350 --> 58:30.517
stumbled . You know , I think , hell ,

58:30.517 --> 58:32.517
you'd do that right now though . If

58:32.517 --> 58:34.628
you're going to walk out of that door

58:34.628 --> 58:36.628
with a television camera on you and

58:36.628 --> 58:36.379
you're going to walk up to the front

58:36.379 --> 58:38.601
steps , you'd be more conscious of your

58:38.601 --> 58:40.712
footing . Exactly what I was you'd be

58:40.712 --> 58:42.879
more conscious of your footing whether

58:42.879 --> 58:42.820
or not you'd been in zerog or not .

58:43.129 --> 58:45.073
Sure , if you're carrying a load ,

58:45.073 --> 58:47.073
you're going to look very carefully

58:47.073 --> 58:49.185
where you're sitting . You don't want

58:49.185 --> 58:48.699
to get knocked down , yeah , and you ,

58:48.790 --> 58:50.790
you in particular . I know that you

58:50.790 --> 58:52.679
know you've just come back from a

58:52.679 --> 58:54.568
flight and people are going to be

58:54.568 --> 58:56.790
watching how you're walking and and all

58:56.790 --> 58:58.790
of this stuff , so you know it's in

58:58.790 --> 58:58.425
your mind and you know you've got to

58:58.425 --> 59:01.024
walk this 30 ft to the MQF so just

59:01.024 --> 59:03.191
naturally you're you're more conscious

59:03.191 --> 59:05.468
of where you're going to put your foot .

59:05.468 --> 59:07.191
I may have psyched myself into

59:07.191 --> 59:08.968
stumbling for that reason , but

59:08.968 --> 59:11.080
nevertheless I did stumble . In spite

59:11.080 --> 59:13.489
of the fact that I was conscious of the

59:13.489 --> 59:15.929
fact that TV cameras were on , OK , did ,

59:16.010 --> 59:18.409
uh , did , did you notice any

59:18.409 --> 59:21.850
distortion of , of , uh , your facial

59:21.850 --> 59:24.489
features at all ? Did you , we , when

59:24.489 --> 59:27.290
you look at the TV , the in-flight TV

59:27.290 --> 59:29.290
as we watched you , you know , when

59:29.290 --> 59:31.989
inside the spacecraft . Uh , you get

59:31.989 --> 59:34.419
the impression that , that your faces

59:34.419 --> 59:36.641
are not like they are now , that , that

59:36.641 --> 59:38.808
they're much rounder , that that's a ,

59:38.808 --> 59:41.030
that's a thing that you see on the TV .

59:41.030 --> 59:43.141
Is that true ? Is that , did you feel

59:43.141 --> 59:45.086
that when you were looking at each

59:45.086 --> 59:47.141
other ? No , but I , I observed that

59:47.141 --> 59:49.252
when I saw a picture of us taken from

59:49.252 --> 59:51.363
that TV , and I didn't think anything

59:51.363 --> 59:53.419
about it until you mentioned it . It

59:53.419 --> 59:55.475
looks , you look quite round . You ,

59:55.475 --> 59:57.697
you look , you look much different than

59:57.697 --> 01:00:00.030
you , than , than you do now . It takes ,

01:00:00.030 --> 01:00:02.141
it's very rounded , and you , but you

01:00:02.141 --> 01:00:01.683
weren't aware of that looking at each

01:00:01.683 --> 01:00:04.322
other . You , you know , I , uh , Al

01:00:04.322 --> 01:00:06.603
Bean had made a comment of that in the ,

01:00:06.643 --> 01:00:08.865
in the 12 report that after he got into

01:00:08.865 --> 01:00:10.810
orbit , he looked around and , and

01:00:10.810 --> 01:00:12.976
everybody looked 20 pounds heavier and

01:00:12.976 --> 01:00:15.603
I remembered that and , uh , I , I , I

01:00:15.603 --> 01:00:17.770
looked at these guys , you know , they

01:00:17.770 --> 01:00:19.992
looked just as bad then as , as they do

01:00:19.992 --> 01:00:22.047
now . Uh , I , I had remembered that

01:00:22.047 --> 01:00:24.103
comment from , from Al Bean's report

01:00:24.103 --> 01:00:26.270
and I really didn't notice it . Yeah ,

01:00:26.270 --> 01:00:28.436
they were the 12 crew , I guess , been

01:00:28.436 --> 01:00:30.436
the one that was the most impressed

01:00:30.436 --> 01:00:30.416
with that of anybody , and they noted

01:00:30.416 --> 01:00:32.472
that they felt even that they , they

01:00:32.472 --> 01:00:34.472
had redness of the face for several

01:00:34.472 --> 01:00:36.638
hours after they first , uh , achieved

01:00:36.638 --> 01:00:38.805
orbit . But , it's the general feeling

01:00:38.805 --> 01:00:42.615
of fullness , but I mean just

01:00:42.615 --> 01:00:44.726
to look at a person and see , see his

01:00:44.726 --> 01:00:46.782
face puffed up . I , I didn't notice

01:00:46.782 --> 01:00:49.004
that at all . Maybe it was just lack of

01:00:49.004 --> 01:00:52.330
observation , but uh . I remember for

01:00:52.330 --> 01:00:54.497
the 1st 5 hours we were too busy doing

01:00:54.497 --> 01:00:56.810
other things . Observed that . Did ,

01:00:57.050 --> 01:00:59.330
did you have any sensation that in the

01:00:59.330 --> 01:01:02.010
1st 24 hours in flight that you

01:01:02.010 --> 01:01:04.530
urinated more than you normally would

01:01:05.010 --> 01:01:07.010
than you did the rest of the flight

01:01:07.010 --> 01:01:10.689
time ? That's a hard thing to

01:01:11.090 --> 01:01:13.312
remember , but do you , do you have any

01:01:13.312 --> 01:01:15.479
idea that you did that at all ? I know

01:01:15.479 --> 01:01:17.535
that at all . I never used my , uh ,

01:01:17.535 --> 01:01:20.350
UCTA . That first one was a whopper . I

01:01:20.350 --> 01:01:23.709
know that . Of course , you got a lot

01:01:23.709 --> 01:01:25.653
of excitement to make it a Whopper

01:01:25.653 --> 01:01:29.419
anyway , so it's hard to . No , no

01:01:29.419 --> 01:01:31.070
real one way or the other .

01:01:33.139 --> 01:01:36.820
OK , uh , was the ,

01:01:37.139 --> 01:01:40.189
can you comment on the work that you

01:01:40.189 --> 01:01:42.078
did EVA out on the , on the lunar

01:01:42.078 --> 01:01:45.250
surface as far as , as what you , you

01:01:45.250 --> 01:01:47.028
felt based versus your ground .

01:01:47.028 --> 01:01:49.083
training , did you , do you think it

01:01:49.083 --> 01:01:51.417
was harder , easier , or about the same ?

01:01:51.417 --> 01:01:53.583
And secondly , as a second question to

01:01:53.583 --> 01:01:55.806
that , did you , did either of you feel

01:01:55.949 --> 01:01:58.870
really physically tired to , to the

01:01:58.870 --> 01:02:00.759
point that you knew that you were

01:02:00.759 --> 01:02:02.981
really tired during , during the EBAs ,

01:02:02.981 --> 01:02:04.426
even going out and cold ?

01:02:06.850 --> 01:02:09.330
I felt , of course it was an order of

01:02:09.330 --> 01:02:11.419
magnitude easier than 1G training ,

01:02:11.929 --> 01:02:13.969
just no comparison at all as we

01:02:13.969 --> 01:02:17.760
expected it to be , uh . And as far

01:02:17.760 --> 01:02:21.189
as being tired , I think I had already

01:02:21.189 --> 01:02:24.250
made up my mind that I did not want to

01:02:24.250 --> 01:02:28.250
sweat on the moon , that I was

01:02:28.250 --> 01:02:30.719
going to keep the water up , and I was

01:02:30.719 --> 01:02:32.830
going to keep rested enough so that I

01:02:32.830 --> 01:02:35.729
didn't sweat for consumables and for

01:02:35.729 --> 01:02:38.570
fatigue purposes , so I never really

01:02:38.570 --> 01:02:40.737
felt tired . I did feel occasionally .

01:02:41.375 --> 01:02:43.542
That I was approaching the point where

01:02:43.542 --> 01:02:45.764
I'd have to have more cooling or take a

01:02:45.764 --> 01:02:47.708
break , but it wasn't because of a

01:02:47.708 --> 01:02:49.764
tired feeling . It was the desire to

01:02:49.764 --> 01:02:51.986
program and plan consumables the way we

01:02:51.986 --> 01:02:54.775
wanted to and not , not be high . So I ,

01:02:54.855 --> 01:02:56.976
I felt in my mind that I was stopping

01:02:56.976 --> 01:02:59.855
short of the point of fatigue as a

01:02:59.855 --> 01:03:02.736
direct plan of not wanting to use up

01:03:02.736 --> 01:03:05.281
consumables . How about you ? Well ,

01:03:06.062 --> 01:03:07.840
it's kind of hard to equate the

01:03:07.840 --> 01:03:09.895
pre-flight stuff with flight stuff .

01:03:09.895 --> 01:03:12.201
First place , you're not using the LCG

01:03:12.662 --> 01:03:14.773
and the pre-flight stuff , and you're

01:03:14.773 --> 01:03:17.221
lifting one , essentially 1G pieces of

01:03:17.221 --> 01:03:19.701
equipment around and so on , uh , so

01:03:19.701 --> 01:03:21.812
it's pretty hard to equate the two in

01:03:21.812 --> 01:03:23.979
my mind as to whether it was harder or

01:03:23.979 --> 01:03:26.422
easier in flight from the standpoint of

01:03:26.422 --> 01:03:30.010
the total workout , uh . But

01:03:30.010 --> 01:03:32.090
certainly the standpoint of ease and

01:03:32.090 --> 01:03:34.257
mobility and so on , as Ed says it's a

01:03:34.257 --> 01:03:36.423
lot easier to get around . I think you

01:03:36.423 --> 01:03:38.534
travel a lot faster and easier on the

01:03:38.534 --> 01:03:40.646
lunar surface is a general comment to

01:03:40.646 --> 01:03:42.757
start off with , uh , EBA one , I did

01:03:42.757 --> 01:03:44.868
not feel uncomfortable at any time at

01:03:44.868 --> 01:03:48.479
all . EVA too , I think the fact that I .

01:03:49.310 --> 01:03:51.366
Aware of the workload was manifested

01:03:51.366 --> 01:03:53.989
primarily in the respiration rate as

01:03:53.989 --> 01:03:56.070
opposed to anything else . I didn't

01:03:56.070 --> 01:03:59.820
feel as though , uh . Body heat was ,

01:03:59.830 --> 01:04:02.550
uh , was going up too much . The deep

01:04:02.550 --> 01:04:04.550
body heat was going up too much . I

01:04:04.550 --> 01:04:06.717
think this is primarily because of the

01:04:06.717 --> 01:04:10.469
circulating fluid in the LCG . And uh I

01:04:10.469 --> 01:04:12.636
was not aware of any profuse , profuse

01:04:12.636 --> 01:04:16.629
sweating , just a little faint tinge of

01:04:16.629 --> 01:04:18.870
uh of sweating , a blush or whatever

01:04:18.870 --> 01:04:21.037
you wanna call it , was when I went to

01:04:21.037 --> 01:04:23.469
the medium flow on the water . So I

01:04:23.469 --> 01:04:25.691
think , and of course you're not really

01:04:25.691 --> 01:04:27.802
aware of uh increasing the heart rate

01:04:27.802 --> 01:04:30.025
either unless you specifically stop and

01:04:30.025 --> 01:04:32.136
measure it somehow . So I think to me

01:04:32.136 --> 01:04:34.247
the , the thing that was most obvious

01:04:34.247 --> 01:04:36.302
about the the increased workload was

01:04:36.302 --> 01:04:38.909
the respiration rate and at times I

01:04:38.909 --> 01:04:40.687
think we suggested climbing the

01:04:40.687 --> 01:04:42.853
steepest grade or the crater that uh .

01:04:43.870 --> 01:04:45.926
Uh , we stop and take a rest and you

01:04:45.926 --> 01:04:49.770
all suggest that . But uh

01:04:50.590 --> 01:04:53.030
the standpoint of being uh tired to the

01:04:53.030 --> 01:04:55.350
degree where I didn't want to press on

01:04:55.350 --> 01:04:57.294
after a short rest period , no , I

01:04:57.294 --> 01:04:59.239
didn't feel that at any time until

01:04:59.239 --> 01:05:01.870
after the two days was over . When we

01:05:01.870 --> 01:05:04.879
were back in the command module never

01:05:04.879 --> 01:05:07.030
really felt like I was behind uh the

01:05:07.030 --> 01:05:09.086
power curve as far as the total work

01:05:09.086 --> 01:05:12.639
was concerned . Well , we'll , we'll

01:05:12.639 --> 01:05:14.806
try and give you some firm feeling for

01:05:14.806 --> 01:05:17.199
what happened with your EVAs when we do

01:05:17.199 --> 01:05:19.310
this , uh , later , you know , we can

01:05:19.310 --> 01:05:21.310
show you actually what , what , you

01:05:21.310 --> 01:05:23.366
know , you did have some times where

01:05:23.366 --> 01:05:23.360
you both got heart rates that were up

01:05:23.360 --> 01:05:26.629
in the 150 area . You , uh , and this

01:05:26.629 --> 01:05:28.740
is why we felt , and your respiratory

01:05:28.740 --> 01:05:30.853
rates were very audible and . Uh , we

01:05:30.853 --> 01:05:33.020
didn't have a respiration trace on you

01:05:33.020 --> 01:05:35.186
at that time , as you know , but you ,

01:05:35.186 --> 01:05:37.297
you did have very audible respiratory

01:05:37.297 --> 01:05:39.297
rates , and it was obvious that you

01:05:39.297 --> 01:05:41.653
were increasing those . And , uh , now

01:05:41.653 --> 01:05:44.572
I think you began to , to , to store ,

01:05:44.693 --> 01:05:46.693
I think you , the thing is you kept

01:05:46.693 --> 01:05:49.873
yours on men for a long time and , and

01:05:49.972 --> 01:05:52.173
then when you did turn up to , to

01:05:52.173 --> 01:05:54.340
medium flow , you just left it there a

01:05:54.340 --> 01:05:56.562
short period of time and it didn't , it

01:05:56.562 --> 01:05:58.506
didn't kick your rate down as much

01:05:58.506 --> 01:06:00.562
because you still were . Maintaining

01:06:00.562 --> 01:06:02.451
some of that heat in there now it

01:06:02.451 --> 01:06:02.226
wasn't enough to make you sweat

01:06:02.226 --> 01:06:04.393
apparently . And then when you started

01:06:04.393 --> 01:06:06.615
doing that , turning it on a little bit

01:06:06.615 --> 01:06:08.615
longer each time you just , it just

01:06:08.615 --> 01:06:10.670
settled right back down . You didn't

01:06:10.670 --> 01:06:12.782
have any trouble with it at all , but

01:06:12.782 --> 01:06:14.837
both of you came down very well when

01:06:14.837 --> 01:06:17.004
you would rest your rates dropped down

01:06:17.004 --> 01:06:16.545
and that's contrary to what happened on

01:06:16.545 --> 01:06:18.545
12 where they didn't drop down when

01:06:18.545 --> 01:06:20.712
they rested and yours , yours did very

01:06:20.712 --> 01:06:22.946
well . They just dropped . They come

01:06:22.946 --> 01:06:25.168
right on down as soon as you stop doing

01:06:25.168 --> 01:06:28.860
the activity , so that that . Do you

01:06:28.860 --> 01:06:31.193
have a feeling that you could have , uh ,

01:06:31.399 --> 01:06:32.955
do you have a feeling , any

01:06:32.955 --> 01:06:35.010
recommendations about extending EVAs

01:06:35.010 --> 01:06:37.010
now ? I mean , do you , do you feel

01:06:37.010 --> 01:06:39.121
that it would be possible with proper

01:06:39.121 --> 01:06:41.343
proper consumables , of course , that ,

01:06:41.343 --> 01:06:43.455
that you could , that it's physically

01:06:43.455 --> 01:06:45.566
possible to do that ? I sure do . I ,

01:06:45.566 --> 01:06:47.510
the thing that bothered me was the

01:06:47.510 --> 01:06:50.100
worrying about consumables . I knowing

01:06:50.479 --> 01:06:52.719
that we were getting a higher metabolic

01:06:52.719 --> 01:06:54.719
load , the higher heart rate , more

01:06:54.719 --> 01:06:57.052
oxygen consumption going up cone crater ,

01:06:57.360 --> 01:06:59.527
and that I was spending more time on ,

01:06:59.550 --> 01:07:02.040
uh , between minimum and intermediate

01:07:02.040 --> 01:07:04.919
cooling . Uh , because we were rushing ,

01:07:05.010 --> 01:07:07.177
deliberately rushing to try to make up

01:07:07.177 --> 01:07:08.954
time , I started worrying about

01:07:08.954 --> 01:07:11.610
consumables and , uh , especially in

01:07:11.610 --> 01:07:14.850
the water and the oxygen , and I , I

01:07:14.850 --> 01:07:16.850
felt that was a limiting factor . I

01:07:16.850 --> 01:07:18.850
didn't feel that I was the limiting

01:07:18.850 --> 01:07:21.017
factor . Just the oxygen and the water

01:07:21.017 --> 01:07:23.128
I was consuming were , were bothering

01:07:23.128 --> 01:07:25.294
me . Well , we tried to get . the word

01:07:25.294 --> 01:07:27.461
that you know that you were pretty fat

01:07:27.461 --> 01:07:29.517
on consumables really at the time we

01:07:29.517 --> 01:07:29.084
thought you were trying to save

01:07:29.084 --> 01:07:31.195
consumables obviously yeah we were we

01:07:31.195 --> 01:07:33.385
were , yeah , and it , and

01:07:33.385 --> 01:07:35.864
understandably so and so we wanted you

01:07:35.864 --> 01:07:37.975
to know that you , you had enough and

01:07:37.975 --> 01:07:39.975
you could go to medium flow without

01:07:39.975 --> 01:07:42.086
really getting yourself in a hole was

01:07:42.086 --> 01:07:44.197
the thing we wanted you to know . And

01:07:44.197 --> 01:07:43.705
after you did that , I , I spent

01:07:43.705 --> 01:07:45.830
considerably more time on . Uh ,

01:07:46.159 --> 01:07:48.492
between minimum and intermediate , yeah ,

01:07:48.492 --> 01:07:50.790
yeah , yeah , you both did , didn't

01:07:51.679 --> 01:07:53.846
incidentally , I don't think , I think

01:07:53.846 --> 01:07:56.270
that the , the comment is . I'd like to

01:07:56.270 --> 01:07:58.159
comment about total workload with

01:07:58.159 --> 01:08:00.409
respect to the to the two day period .

01:08:00.790 --> 01:08:03.370
I , I wouldn't want to see a crew ever

01:08:03.750 --> 01:08:05.694
plan to do any more than we did in

01:08:05.694 --> 01:08:07.806
those two days . Amen . As far as I'm

01:08:07.806 --> 01:08:09.806
concerned , that's about as heavy a

01:08:09.806 --> 01:08:11.917
workload as anybody ought to do . And

01:08:11.917 --> 01:08:14.139
certainly if you're going to go out for

01:08:14.139 --> 01:08:13.389
longer periods of EBA , you ought to

01:08:13.389 --> 01:08:15.722
allow longer periods of rest in between .

01:08:15.722 --> 01:08:17.889
Amen , and make sure somehow that they

01:08:17.889 --> 01:08:20.000
get the rest . Just allowing the time

01:08:20.000 --> 01:08:22.278
doesn't . Necessarily . Well , tell me ,

01:08:22.334 --> 01:08:24.556
if you had , you know , in the , in the

01:08:24.556 --> 01:08:26.667
limb , I , I gather one of the things

01:08:26.667 --> 01:08:28.890
that you think would help , of course ,

01:08:28.890 --> 01:08:31.001
would be getting out of a suit . That

01:08:31.001 --> 01:08:30.564
certainly would help if you could get

01:08:30.564 --> 01:08:32.731
out of a suit and a limb . No question

01:08:32.731 --> 01:08:34.842
about that . If you had something for

01:08:34.842 --> 01:08:36.842
sleep , would you take it ? Would ,

01:08:36.842 --> 01:08:39.008
would you guys have taken in a limb if

01:08:39.008 --> 01:08:38.854
you had had something for sleep , do

01:08:38.854 --> 01:08:41.076
you think so . I don't think so because

01:08:41.076 --> 01:08:43.298
what I don't think , I don't know about

01:08:43.298 --> 01:08:45.465
it , but I certainly don't take that .

01:08:45.465 --> 01:08:47.687
Medication here on the ground , it's an

01:08:47.687 --> 01:08:50.021
individual thing quite obviously and it ,

01:08:50.021 --> 01:08:52.243
you know , it just depends on things as

01:08:52.243 --> 01:08:54.243
closely in space as you can but the

01:08:54.243 --> 01:08:56.298
ground is probably the way everybody

01:08:56.298 --> 01:08:58.410
would . So if you have people that do

01:08:58.410 --> 01:08:58.149
that in the ground probably would help

01:08:58.149 --> 01:09:01.128
them in the . I'd prefer to see us use

01:09:01.128 --> 01:09:03.072
a more natural means of getting to

01:09:03.072 --> 01:09:05.406
sleep as opposed to an artificial means .

01:09:05.406 --> 01:09:08.929
You'd like to sleep off . Back to that

01:09:08.929 --> 01:09:11.096
again . I think the suit's a big thing

01:09:11.096 --> 01:09:13.262
as far as that's concerned . Yeah . It

01:09:13.262 --> 01:09:15.540
keeps coming up . Couldn't roll around .

01:09:15.540 --> 01:09:17.540
You know , even , you couldn't roll

01:09:17.540 --> 01:09:19.762
around in the hammock and the neck ring

01:09:19.762 --> 01:09:22.096
would hit the back of the neck and , uh .

01:09:22.096 --> 01:09:24.096
Yeah . There was 11 thing , Chuck ,

01:09:24.096 --> 01:09:26.318
about the fatigue . The only thing that

01:09:26.318 --> 01:09:28.648
I felt fatigued , any muscles that I

01:09:28.648 --> 01:09:30.704
felt fatigued was the hand muscle in

01:09:30.704 --> 01:09:32.815
the right hand . Because of the uh of

01:09:32.815 --> 01:09:34.870
that glove because you were fighting

01:09:34.870 --> 01:09:36.870
that glove , yeah , and working the

01:09:36.870 --> 01:09:38.870
core tubes , getting unscrewing the

01:09:38.870 --> 01:09:41.092
cord tubes , one of them I couldn't get

01:09:41.092 --> 01:09:43.092
by myself , getting the caps off of

01:09:43.092 --> 01:09:45.204
them , uh , that was very fatiguing ,

01:09:45.204 --> 01:09:47.370
and that arm gave out . How about when

01:09:47.370 --> 01:09:49.592
you're carrying a barbell out there and

01:09:49.592 --> 01:09:51.759
you're getting this thing you said you

01:09:51.759 --> 01:09:53.926
had to do it well that was tiring just

01:09:53.926 --> 01:09:53.420
because it's so cumbersome and it was

01:09:53.420 --> 01:09:55.698
flopping all around , but I eventually .

01:09:55.698 --> 01:09:57.883
Put it across my arms like that and

01:09:57.883 --> 01:10:00.313
just aside from the , the workload of

01:10:00.313 --> 01:10:02.424
carrying it out , it was no problem .

01:10:02.424 --> 01:10:05.153
It was heavy . Was the weight seem

01:10:05.153 --> 01:10:07.320
different because you commented at the

01:10:07.320 --> 01:10:09.486
time and it sounded and it looked like

01:10:09.486 --> 01:10:11.486
you were having trouble getting out

01:10:11.486 --> 01:10:13.431
there with that thing . Was it the

01:10:13.431 --> 01:10:13.394
weight of it or was it just the fact

01:10:13.394 --> 01:10:15.394
that it was vibrating , that it was

01:10:15.394 --> 01:10:17.727
sort of like a fish ? It was mostly the ,

01:10:17.727 --> 01:10:19.950
the vibration of it , just the flopping

01:10:19.950 --> 01:10:22.445
of it . However , uh , I think that it

01:10:22.445 --> 01:10:24.886
was heavier than I expected from the

01:10:24.886 --> 01:10:28.846
16G mockup . Uh-huh . But the , uh , we

01:10:28.846 --> 01:10:31.445
had never carried it that far in

01:10:31.445 --> 01:10:33.612
training , and I think we've made that

01:10:33.612 --> 01:10:35.723
recommendation that at least once the

01:10:35.723 --> 01:10:37.945
guys ought to carry it , uh , the whole

01:10:37.945 --> 01:10:39.778
way , the whole way . But it was

01:10:39.778 --> 01:10:42.001
primarily the flopping of those weights

01:10:42.001 --> 01:10:44.278
on the end that were giving me trouble .

01:10:44.278 --> 01:10:47.180
OK , let's get the , uh , I gather that

01:10:47.180 --> 01:10:49.839
on this bowel movement thing that , uh ,

01:10:49.859 --> 01:10:52.540
the preps and so forth you had a good

01:10:52.540 --> 01:10:54.596
comment in there that that that went

01:10:54.620 --> 01:10:56.676
fairly well and you all did the same

01:10:56.676 --> 01:10:58.898
thing we knew pre-flight anyway . Now ,

01:10:59.140 --> 01:11:01.362
how did it work out though on the thing

01:11:01.362 --> 01:11:03.529
do you remember ? Can you just tell us

01:11:03.529 --> 01:11:05.751
each , each one how you went ? I gather

01:11:05.751 --> 01:11:07.640
Ed went almost to the end without

01:11:07.640 --> 01:11:07.359
having one according to a comment .

01:11:09.020 --> 01:11:11.187
Where , where did , where did you go ?

01:11:11.187 --> 01:11:11.160
When did you ?

01:11:16.689 --> 01:11:18.856
I went to the morning of the 8th day .

01:11:18.856 --> 01:11:20.967
To the morning of the 8th day was the

01:11:20.967 --> 01:11:24.310
1st 1 . And uh and that's the only one

01:11:24.310 --> 01:11:27.120
I assume yeah I didn't plan it that way .

01:11:27.189 --> 01:11:30.779
What I wanted to do was to uh have one

01:11:30.779 --> 01:11:32.835
bowel movement before we went to the

01:11:32.835 --> 01:11:35.589
surface so that would take care of of

01:11:35.589 --> 01:11:39.069
that period of time and uh I went

01:11:39.069 --> 01:11:42.209
around with a bag on my panty for about

01:11:42.209 --> 01:11:45.029
12 hours hoping I could do something

01:11:45.029 --> 01:11:48.740
and never did . And at one point I even

01:11:48.740 --> 01:11:50.629
wished the heck we had a laxative

01:11:50.629 --> 01:11:54.500
aboard to uh help me do that . I'm not

01:11:54.500 --> 01:11:56.778
sure whether that's a good idea or not ,

01:11:56.778 --> 01:11:58.944
but it sure seemed like it at the time

01:11:58.944 --> 01:12:02.390
and uh . I was really concerned that

01:12:02.850 --> 01:12:04.961
I need to have a bowel movement while

01:12:04.961 --> 01:12:07.890
we're on the surface and uh I got

01:12:07.890 --> 01:12:10.290
through that period figured well we got

01:12:10.290 --> 01:12:12.729
it made be good to get back in the

01:12:12.729 --> 01:12:15.290
command module and use the bag and I

01:12:15.290 --> 01:12:17.457
still couldn't and it was till the 8th

01:12:17.457 --> 01:12:20.020
day . And that was a Whopper . Did you

01:12:20.020 --> 01:12:22.242
ever get any cramps or anything with it

01:12:22.242 --> 01:12:24.298
though ? You never had any gut , gut

01:12:24.298 --> 01:12:26.242
disturbance at all . Fine . OK . I

01:12:26.242 --> 01:12:28.298
wasn't uncomfortable . I didn't even

01:12:28.298 --> 01:12:30.576
have a feeling of fullness . Oh , good .

01:12:30.576 --> 01:12:32.798
How about you ? How , what , how'd your

01:12:32.859 --> 01:12:35.939
cycle go ? Well , I had 115 bags , uh ,

01:12:37.049 --> 01:12:40.310
On the 3rd day I believe it was

01:12:41.410 --> 01:12:44.810
and then another bag on about the 7th

01:12:44.810 --> 01:12:46.180
day . Sorry .

01:12:50.609 --> 01:12:52.890
And no problems . I mean they were

01:12:52.890 --> 01:12:55.001
normal consistency and sort of as far

01:12:55.001 --> 01:12:57.330
as that's really uncivilized that I

01:12:57.330 --> 01:12:59.899
agree with you . We , we got to find a

01:12:59.899 --> 01:13:03.250
better the high the total hygiene thing

01:13:03.250 --> 01:13:05.899
in this thing is so archaic it's

01:13:05.899 --> 01:13:08.265
unbelievable and we , we just . Got to

01:13:08.265 --> 01:13:10.376
do better than that if we're going to

01:13:10.376 --> 01:13:12.432
keep people in space . That's really

01:13:12.432 --> 01:13:12.185
the only time I didn't feel civilized ,

01:13:12.305 --> 01:13:14.361
you know . I really felt uncivilized

01:13:14.361 --> 01:13:16.472
during that whole process , the whole

01:13:16.472 --> 01:13:18.694
mess , yeah , that's a big mess and the

01:13:18.694 --> 01:13:20.861
ability to clean up afterwards and the

01:13:20.861 --> 01:13:22.638
fact is the ability to maintain

01:13:22.638 --> 01:13:24.805
personal hygiene throughout the flight

01:13:24.805 --> 01:13:27.584
is we need better equipment . Stu , how

01:13:27.584 --> 01:13:30.245
about you ? I went to , uh , 80 hours

01:13:30.245 --> 01:13:31.967
was the first one . I remember

01:13:31.967 --> 01:13:34.023
distinctly because I said between 80

01:13:34.023 --> 01:13:36.189
and 81 hours approaching LOI while I'm

01:13:36.189 --> 01:13:39.490
going to do it . And which pleasantly

01:13:39.490 --> 01:13:41.609
surprised me too while we're on the

01:13:41.609 --> 01:13:44.439
gory subject because pre-flight I

01:13:44.439 --> 01:13:46.970
anticipated that I might have to use

01:13:46.970 --> 01:13:49.026
the bag more than that because in my

01:13:49.026 --> 01:13:52.410
normal course of events it's very

01:13:52.410 --> 01:13:54.577
common for me to hit the head at least

01:13:54.577 --> 01:13:57.930
twice a day and so I was

01:13:57.930 --> 01:14:00.041
pleasantly surprised that I got to 80

01:14:00.041 --> 01:14:02.850
hours and then I had one other one and

01:14:02.850 --> 01:14:06.270
it was . It was after TEI I guess the

01:14:06.270 --> 01:14:09.229
next day after TEI and I , I don't

01:14:09.229 --> 01:14:12.270
remember what time frame it was or was

01:14:12.270 --> 01:14:16.109
it ? Yeah , I guess it was . It was the

01:14:16.109 --> 01:14:19.209
day after TEI and uh

01:14:21.950 --> 01:14:23.783
OK , I don't remember the GET or

01:14:23.783 --> 01:14:25.894
anything . I , I can't even associate

01:14:25.894 --> 01:14:28.006
it with anything except these guys in

01:14:28.006 --> 01:14:27.970
their gas masks . I don't know what

01:14:27.970 --> 01:14:30.350
else was going on at that time . Yeah ,

01:14:31.240 --> 01:14:33.390
these guys . OK ,

01:14:36.479 --> 01:14:40.399
uh , when did you first start

01:14:40.399 --> 01:14:42.520
to use the nose drops ? How far into

01:14:42.520 --> 01:14:45.669
the , do you remember what day ? 3rd

01:14:45.669 --> 01:14:49.600
day , wasn't it ? 3 , I think . And do

01:14:49.600 --> 01:14:52.680
you feel that that was a , I , I'm a

01:14:52.680 --> 01:14:54.902
little bit confused about your , you're

01:14:54.902 --> 01:14:57.319
you're describing this fullness and

01:14:57.319 --> 01:14:59.541
still do you feel that this was a thing

01:14:59.541 --> 01:15:01.430
that was associated with the this

01:15:01.430 --> 01:15:03.600
fullness that was due to , to the

01:15:03.600 --> 01:15:05.822
weightlessness , or do you think it was

01:15:05.822 --> 01:15:08.044
an oxygen effect just due to the drying

01:15:08.044 --> 01:15:10.819
and so forth and I never felt that dry .

01:15:11.910 --> 01:15:13.966
And I at the time I thought it could

01:15:13.966 --> 01:15:16.430
have been either or both , and so I

01:15:16.430 --> 01:15:17.986
just treated it symptomatic

01:15:17.986 --> 01:15:20.149
symptomatically with a couple of with

01:15:20.149 --> 01:15:22.260
about one drop in each nostril and it

01:15:22.270 --> 01:15:24.381
was completely effective for the next

01:15:24.381 --> 01:15:26.548
10 to 12 hours . Well , you could hear

01:15:26.548 --> 01:15:28.548
it . This is a fairly routine . You

01:15:28.548 --> 01:15:28.350
hear this in the guys' voices , and you

01:15:28.350 --> 01:15:30.517
know they're doing it , you know , you

01:15:30.517 --> 01:15:32.739
hear this full feeling that they have .

01:15:32.739 --> 01:15:34.683
Sometimes they get a little bit of

01:15:34.683 --> 01:15:36.794
hoarse , uh , sensation with it too .

01:15:36.930 --> 01:15:39.180
And it comes and goes and uh you

01:15:39.180 --> 01:15:41.013
described it I thought very well

01:15:41.013 --> 01:15:43.236
yesterday , you know , sometimes in the

01:15:43.236 --> 01:15:45.402
mornings it'd be you'd wake up it'd be

01:15:45.402 --> 01:15:47.624
better in the morning and uh you know I

01:15:47.624 --> 01:15:49.791
don't know that's this is kind of a of

01:15:49.791 --> 01:15:53.680
a subjective feeling uh I kind of

01:15:54.379 --> 01:15:56.620
felt that maybe the whole uh full head

01:15:56.620 --> 01:15:58.842
sensation was related to a readjustment

01:15:58.842 --> 01:16:01.009
of the whole cardiovascular system and

01:16:01.009 --> 01:16:03.064
therefore it is if you could relax a

01:16:03.064 --> 01:16:05.287
little bit in the evening , it ought to

01:16:05.287 --> 01:16:07.620
help it this is my theory maybe kind of .

01:16:07.620 --> 01:16:09.898
I wished it that way . I know . It's a ,

01:16:09.898 --> 01:16:11.898
just a general feeling . Nothing to

01:16:11.898 --> 01:16:14.009
substantiated , uh , quantitatively .

01:16:14.009 --> 01:16:16.064
And I think as far as the nose drops

01:16:16.064 --> 01:16:15.910
are concerned , it helped , uh , with

01:16:15.910 --> 01:16:17.854
the mucus , but it didn't help the

01:16:17.854 --> 01:16:20.640
overall fullness , uh , sensation . Did

01:16:20.640 --> 01:16:22.807
they work all right ? Yeah . I know we

01:16:22.807 --> 01:16:24.973
got a special lists too here , but did

01:16:24.973 --> 01:16:27.251
they work all right ? I mean . Did the .

01:16:27.251 --> 01:16:29.473
Just like it should have . They cleared

01:16:29.473 --> 01:16:31.807
out the , made it clear , clear out the ,

01:16:31.807 --> 01:16:33.918
the mucus temporarily , a few hours .

01:16:33.918 --> 01:16:35.973
Yeah . OK . And still , what about ,

01:16:35.973 --> 01:16:38.029
now , Did you just give yourself too

01:16:38.029 --> 01:16:40.140
big a slug ? Is that what happened to

01:16:40.140 --> 01:16:42.418
it , or I think I probably did , Chuck .

01:16:42.418 --> 01:16:44.640
I , I'm sure that's what happened , you

01:16:44.640 --> 01:16:44.560
know , I , uh , decided , well , I

01:16:44.560 --> 01:16:46.727
hadn't used any up until then , but on

01:16:46.727 --> 01:16:48.949
entry , you know , I thought , well , I

01:16:48.949 --> 01:16:50.838
think I'll just use some of these

01:16:50.838 --> 01:16:52.949
beauties , and , uh , I think I hit ,

01:16:53.279 --> 01:16:55.279
gave me too big a dose in the right

01:16:55.279 --> 01:16:57.335
nostril here , because boy , my eyes

01:16:57.335 --> 01:16:59.557
started watering and I could feel it in

01:16:59.557 --> 01:17:01.723
my sinuses and everything else . And ,

01:17:01.723 --> 01:17:04.580
uh , then , but it lasted maybe an hour

01:17:04.839 --> 01:17:07.430
and by the time . I guess I probably

01:17:07.430 --> 01:17:09.374
did that a couple 3 hours prior to

01:17:09.374 --> 01:17:11.799
entry and uh an hour later , you know ,

01:17:11.879 --> 01:17:13.990
I , I think most of the symptoms have

01:17:13.990 --> 01:17:16.212
gone away either that or you're getting

01:17:16.212 --> 01:17:18.323
closer to entry and you stop worrying

01:17:18.323 --> 01:17:20.268
about it but uh yeah I did . I , I

01:17:20.268 --> 01:17:23.310
think I overdid it and uh I . I , I ,

01:17:23.359 --> 01:17:26.830
uh , just , you know , I hardly ever

01:17:26.830 --> 01:17:28.941
take any nose drops or anything , and

01:17:28.941 --> 01:17:30.997
maybe I just got too much in there ,

01:17:30.997 --> 01:17:33.163
and it , it's probably pretty powerful

01:17:33.163 --> 01:17:35.330
stuff . It is powerful . I know if I ,

01:17:35.330 --> 01:17:37.497
in one GR here , if I take more than a

01:17:37.497 --> 01:17:39.497
couple of drops of Afrin , if I use

01:17:39.497 --> 01:17:41.719
drops instead of spray , I get the same

01:17:41.719 --> 01:17:41.189
effect . Yeah . Yeah . No , that's not

01:17:41.189 --> 01:17:43.430
a . It's a burning and a real drying

01:17:43.430 --> 01:17:45.597
sensation . Yeah . And , and it wasn't

01:17:45.597 --> 01:17:47.865
a lack of breathing or not , It before

01:17:47.865 --> 01:17:50.032
flight or anything like that . I think

01:17:50.032 --> 01:17:52.309
I was just a little overzealous in the ,

01:17:52.309 --> 01:17:52.265
in the application . Well , you know ,

01:17:52.435 --> 01:17:54.491
2 drops of good , give it 4 . Yeah ,

01:17:54.491 --> 01:17:56.546
you know , what the hell ? Did you ,

01:17:56.546 --> 01:17:58.602
did you feel that you got any , uh ,

01:17:58.602 --> 01:18:00.713
did you get a tachycardia with that ?

01:18:00.713 --> 01:18:02.768
Did you get a real increase in heart

01:18:02.768 --> 01:18:04.935
rate with that ? Oh , I don't have the

01:18:04.935 --> 01:18:04.504
foggiest idea . You , you didn't , you

01:18:04.504 --> 01:18:06.504
didn't feel it anymore . Yeah . I ,

01:18:07.274 --> 01:18:10.234
y'all had to , y'all had the , he

01:18:10.444 --> 01:18:12.500
pumped a little more adrenaline . He

01:18:12.500 --> 01:18:14.555
got mad at us for suggesting that we

01:18:14.555 --> 01:18:17.819
use the gun . Yeah , I was stayed off

01:18:17.819 --> 01:18:21.270
at the suggestion . Did , uh , did any

01:18:21.270 --> 01:18:23.790
of you all had some , some evidence in ,

01:18:23.870 --> 01:18:26.950
in your ears on , on , uh , after on

01:18:26.950 --> 01:18:28.970
the first exam when Bill saw you of

01:18:28.970 --> 01:18:31.390
having some , some , uh , bubbles , uh ,

01:18:31.470 --> 01:18:33.629
in there . And did you have any

01:18:33.629 --> 01:18:35.796
sensation during reentry that you were

01:18:35.796 --> 01:18:38.018
having trouble clearing your ears , any

01:18:38.018 --> 01:18:40.430
of you ? No sensation surprising to me .

01:18:40.509 --> 01:18:42.620
I was looking for it and surprisingly

01:18:42.620 --> 01:18:44.787
enough , I had no problem . Problems .

01:18:44.787 --> 01:18:46.898
Not a bit . I could feel the pressure

01:18:46.898 --> 01:18:49.120
change , uh , but , uh , I mean I could

01:18:49.120 --> 01:18:51.453
hear them pop , but you know I could do ,

01:18:51.453 --> 01:18:53.287
I did that too on my , uh , suit

01:18:53.287 --> 01:18:55.453
integrity check . I , I could feel the

01:18:55.453 --> 01:18:57.676
pressure , you know , and you just sort

01:18:57.676 --> 01:18:59.842
of pop it . I'd like to make a comment

01:18:59.842 --> 01:19:01.676
before I forget about this voice

01:19:01.676 --> 01:19:03.731
sounding full , you know , I noticed

01:19:03.731 --> 01:19:06.065
that , that you'll do that a lot if you ,

01:19:06.065 --> 01:19:07.787
I think maybe it's because the

01:19:07.787 --> 01:19:10.009
atmosphere is dry , but if you're doing

01:19:10.009 --> 01:19:12.176
a lot of talking . And then you'd come

01:19:12.176 --> 01:19:14.398
on and I would notice myself sounding ,

01:19:14.398 --> 01:19:16.620
sounding full and I'd say , gee , I'm ,

01:19:16.620 --> 01:19:18.620
I'm sounding like that and , and my

01:19:18.620 --> 01:19:20.676
head wasn't constantly full at all ,

01:19:20.676 --> 01:19:22.898
but I could tell in my voice that I was

01:19:22.898 --> 01:19:24.953
sounding hearing it in your voice if

01:19:24.953 --> 01:19:27.009
you've been doing a lot of talking ,

01:19:27.009 --> 01:19:29.287
right . Well , that's true . If you do ,

01:19:29.287 --> 01:19:31.231
you know , like if you end up just

01:19:31.231 --> 01:19:33.398
talking all the time , like if you end

01:19:33.398 --> 01:19:33.229
up here like in a session yesterday

01:19:33.229 --> 01:19:35.396
where you talked a lot during the TV ,

01:19:35.396 --> 01:19:37.562
you may even have had that , that kind

01:19:37.562 --> 01:19:39.451
of thing . If you just talk a lot

01:19:39.451 --> 01:19:41.729
during the day , you , you can have it .

01:19:41.729 --> 01:19:41.270
We don't have too much else to do in

01:19:41.270 --> 01:19:45.100
here , Charles . Now we're back to that .

01:19:45.189 --> 01:19:47.300
Hey , Chuck , comment on those apps .

01:19:49.580 --> 01:19:51.747
We , we're looking for somebody to cut

01:19:51.747 --> 01:19:53.691
a glove . Who is it ? When is that

01:19:53.691 --> 01:19:56.069
gonna happen ? The comment on the

01:19:56.069 --> 01:19:59.180
African bottles . They , uh , the

01:19:59.180 --> 01:20:01.402
pressure gets to them and they separate

01:20:01.402 --> 01:20:03.819
into a jillion bubbles . That emulsion

01:20:03.819 --> 01:20:06.220
is , uh , very bubbly and filled with

01:20:06.220 --> 01:20:08.442
air . As soon as you take the cap off ,

01:20:08.442 --> 01:20:11.049
it comes out , starts leaking . It's a

01:20:11.049 --> 01:20:14.729
little in the bottle . Yeah . OK .

01:20:15.549 --> 01:20:17.271
And , uh , it's , it's kind of

01:20:17.271 --> 01:20:19.327
difficult to control that stuff when

01:20:19.327 --> 01:20:21.382
you use it . That was the first time

01:20:21.382 --> 01:20:23.438
you opened the bottle or after you ?

01:20:23.438 --> 01:20:25.660
Always . Always . Every time you opened

01:20:25.660 --> 01:20:27.771
it . Yeah . What , what technique did

01:20:27.771 --> 01:20:29.938
they use for applying the nose drops ?

01:20:29.938 --> 01:20:32.105
OK , Clay , what technique did you use

01:20:32.105 --> 01:20:34.216
for applying the nose drops ? How did

01:20:34.216 --> 01:20:36.327
you put them in ? Very gentle squeeze

01:20:36.327 --> 01:20:38.438
trying to get just one drop at a time

01:20:38.438 --> 01:20:41.200
out . Just put the dropper up and put

01:20:41.200 --> 01:20:42.700
it in there and hosed it .

01:20:45.870 --> 01:20:48.580
Just like we told him to . Good

01:20:50.859 --> 01:20:54.299
boy . Uh ,

01:20:56.930 --> 01:20:59.041
what , what did you take those , uh ,

01:20:59.041 --> 01:21:01.649
PRDs down in your , in your suits ,

01:21:02.140 --> 01:21:04.251
tape them . You'll never believe it ,

01:21:04.251 --> 01:21:06.140
Charles . We had zipper pockets .

01:21:06.140 --> 01:21:09.549
You're kidding . It's unbelievable .

01:21:10.009 --> 01:21:12.120
They were there . We pulled out those

01:21:12.120 --> 01:21:14.231
coveralls , and there were zippers on

01:21:14.231 --> 01:21:16.398
them . First time we'd seen zippers in

01:21:16.398 --> 01:21:18.620
the whole training cycle . I'll be , so

01:21:18.620 --> 01:21:20.620
they're not in the training suits .

01:21:20.620 --> 01:21:20.549
They're just on the flight suits that

01:21:20.549 --> 01:21:24.189
it ? OK . Well , how about that ? OK .

01:21:24.959 --> 01:21:27.250
Where we had that we had , we had

01:21:27.250 --> 01:21:29.028
requested it way , way back and

01:21:29.028 --> 01:21:31.083
forgotten about that . We'd made the

01:21:31.083 --> 01:21:33.250
official request and it was already in

01:21:33.250 --> 01:21:35.361
the mail and nobody knew about it and

01:21:35.361 --> 01:21:37.528
none of the training devices were that

01:21:37.528 --> 01:21:36.750
way . But lo and behold , out of the

01:21:36.750 --> 01:21:38.806
package that came in there was there

01:21:38.806 --> 01:21:41.250
they were . Well , that's great . It

01:21:41.250 --> 01:21:42.806
was , they were great too .

01:21:47.910 --> 01:21:49.850
So Oh , OK ,

01:21:51.979 --> 01:21:52.680
uh .

01:21:57.020 --> 01:21:59.459
Well , I don't understand where that is .

01:21:59.819 --> 01:22:02.930
Well , uh , when you remove your PGAs ,

01:22:03.069 --> 01:22:05.236
Al , is there a point in the checklist

01:22:05.236 --> 01:22:07.402
where we should include the removal of

01:22:07.402 --> 01:22:09.259
the PRDs back into your flight

01:22:09.259 --> 01:22:11.810
coveralls , or , or is that not there ?

01:22:12.299 --> 01:22:14.466
It already says take all the items out

01:22:14.466 --> 01:22:16.577
of here . Oh , it does . OK , if that

01:22:16.577 --> 01:22:18.743
happens to be one that's by itself , I

01:22:18.743 --> 01:22:20.688
see . And if you forget that extra

01:22:20.688 --> 01:22:22.688
pocket's there , you'll forget it .

01:22:22.688 --> 01:22:24.966
Well , now it's , it's listed in there ,

01:22:24.966 --> 01:22:27.899
uh . Uh , when we take the suits off

01:22:27.899 --> 01:22:30.180
the first day , I , I guess , you know ,

01:22:30.259 --> 01:22:32.426
and then when you bring the suits back

01:22:32.426 --> 01:22:35.379
over , uh , from the limb , why , you

01:22:35.379 --> 01:22:37.629
know , a pretty rushed timeline , that

01:22:38.180 --> 01:22:40.402
it wouldn't , I don't know whether it'd

01:22:40.402 --> 01:22:40.259
be any good to put that in your

01:22:40.259 --> 01:22:42.315
timeline book or not because at that

01:22:42.315 --> 01:22:44.426
time your main purpose is just to get

01:22:44.426 --> 01:22:46.537
the suits and get , get them stowed .

01:22:46.537 --> 01:22:48.592
Yeah , you said you jerked them down

01:22:48.592 --> 01:22:50.648
and got them zipped up in those bags

01:22:50.648 --> 01:22:52.703
pretty fast , right into the , right

01:22:52.703 --> 01:22:55.939
into the bag . OK , probably wouldn't

01:22:55.939 --> 01:22:58.050
hurt , I guess when we list the items

01:22:58.050 --> 01:23:00.161
to take out of the suits when we come

01:23:00.161 --> 01:23:02.383
back to the lamb , we can just add PRDs

01:23:02.383 --> 01:23:04.217
in there as another item we list

01:23:04.217 --> 01:23:06.439
sunglasses and pencils and all the rest

01:23:06.439 --> 01:23:08.606
of the things . That's what . And then

01:23:08.606 --> 01:23:10.740
I mean I sunglasses remind me , uh ,

01:23:10.750 --> 01:23:13.109
when did you , when you said you use

01:23:13.109 --> 01:23:15.165
sunglasses , you're the only one who

01:23:15.165 --> 01:23:17.109
did use some sunglasses corrective

01:23:17.109 --> 01:23:18.831
lenses , is that right ? I use

01:23:18.831 --> 01:23:20.942
prescription corrective lenses . Oh ,

01:23:20.942 --> 01:23:23.109
OK . When , when did you use the , the

01:23:23.109 --> 01:23:22.609
corrective lenses ? A couple of times

01:23:22.609 --> 01:23:26.000
when I had to read small print . In the

01:23:26.000 --> 01:23:28.580
pipeline in just in in the in the

01:23:28.580 --> 01:23:31.120
command module with the helmet off all

01:23:31.120 --> 01:23:33.669
the time I didn't . No , I , no , I

01:23:33.669 --> 01:23:35.780
didn't . I'd use it from time to time

01:23:35.780 --> 01:23:38.002
in the sums , particularly in the LMS .

01:23:38.002 --> 01:23:40.169
The only time when I can't adapt is in

01:23:40.169 --> 01:23:42.280
low light levels . Did you have any ,

01:23:42.280 --> 01:23:44.447
did you have any feeling about that on

01:23:44.447 --> 01:23:46.669
the lunar surface , now , that , that ,

01:23:46.669 --> 01:23:48.836
the low , that the light levels were ,

01:23:48.836 --> 01:23:51.113
were bothersome to you because of that ?

01:23:51.113 --> 01:23:53.280
Because that is a very typical thing .

01:23:53.280 --> 01:23:53.160
That's a , that's an interesting thing .

01:23:53.270 --> 01:23:55.437
The light levels were generally higher

01:23:55.437 --> 01:23:57.970
in the , uh , in the lunar module . The

01:23:57.970 --> 01:24:00.137
thing that they don't stimulate on the

01:24:00.137 --> 01:24:02.248
LMS is the difference between day and

01:24:02.248 --> 01:24:04.470
night . On this afternoon how about out

01:24:04.470 --> 01:24:08.200
I do all the time for purposes . How

01:24:08.200 --> 01:24:10.367
about out on the surface when you were

01:24:10.367 --> 01:24:12.478
actually out on the surface and , and

01:24:12.478 --> 01:24:14.589
had your visor down ? Did , did , did

01:24:14.589 --> 01:24:16.756
those light levels bother you at all ?

01:24:16.756 --> 01:24:18.867
I mean , did you feel that , that you

01:24:18.867 --> 01:24:21.089
were having any , any difficulty seeing

01:24:21.089 --> 01:24:23.144
that . And see , the only problems I

01:24:23.144 --> 01:24:25.144
have is when reading small print at

01:24:25.144 --> 01:24:27.509
close distances when the light levels

01:24:27.509 --> 01:24:29.565
low , and I had the problem with the

01:24:29.565 --> 01:24:31.620
LMS a couple of times in the CMS and

01:24:31.620 --> 01:24:33.676
the LMS , I think , I don't know how

01:24:33.676 --> 01:24:35.620
many times I broke them up , and I

01:24:35.620 --> 01:24:37.676
don't know , perhaps . Yeah . 6 or 8

01:24:37.676 --> 01:24:39.953
times I tried to read that card . It's ,

01:24:39.953 --> 01:24:42.176
it's about the only time I've ever seen

01:24:42.176 --> 01:24:41.680
you use them . Yeah . On the surface ,

01:24:41.759 --> 01:24:43.839
Chuck , it's either stark white , I

01:24:43.839 --> 01:24:45.506
mean , dazzling white or it's

01:24:45.506 --> 01:24:47.879
absolutely black . So it's black . I

01:24:47.879 --> 01:24:49.990
don't think eyesight has a great deal

01:24:49.990 --> 01:24:52.046
to do with it at that point . Yeah ,

01:24:52.046 --> 01:24:54.157
that's right . I think you've covered

01:24:54.157 --> 01:24:56.323
most of that stuff about the vision on

01:24:56.323 --> 01:24:58.490
the surface and so it's pretty well in

01:24:58.490 --> 01:24:58.439
there . I think you've done that very

01:24:58.439 --> 01:25:00.439
well in the in the thing so I don't

01:25:00.439 --> 01:25:02.550
think we need to if we have something

01:25:02.550 --> 01:25:04.606
that comes back up for that , well ,

01:25:04.606 --> 01:25:06.772
we'll get the word to you , but as far

01:25:06.772 --> 01:25:08.939
as I can tell from getting through all

01:25:08.939 --> 01:25:08.879
that so far , I think we've got most of

01:25:08.879 --> 01:25:11.101
that covered , you know , I might point

01:25:11.101 --> 01:25:13.157
out to you if you want to pursue the

01:25:13.157 --> 01:25:15.323
the visibility further for any sort of

01:25:15.323 --> 01:25:17.323
medical things . If you look at the

01:25:17.323 --> 01:25:19.323
photographs , in my opinion they're

01:25:19.323 --> 01:25:21.212
exactly what we saw . If you look

01:25:21.212 --> 01:25:23.379
across sun , the visibility is great .

01:25:23.379 --> 01:25:25.600
If you look up sun , everything's

01:25:25.810 --> 01:25:27.810
blared out by the sun . If you look

01:25:27.810 --> 01:25:30.279
down sun , all of the gentle , subtle

01:25:30.540 --> 01:25:33.009
rolling and the subdued craters , they

01:25:33.009 --> 01:25:35.899
just disappear on you . But cross sun

01:25:35.899 --> 01:25:38.010
visibility is great . The photographs

01:25:38.010 --> 01:25:40.177
show it the same way . You know , just

01:25:40.177 --> 01:25:42.399
real briefly on that same subject , I ,

01:25:42.399 --> 01:25:44.510
it's kind of hard to tell when you're

01:25:44.510 --> 01:25:46.510
looking at just negatives of the 70

01:25:46.510 --> 01:25:46.399
millimeters , but I was looking at some

01:25:46.399 --> 01:25:49.040
of the zero phase pictures last night

01:25:49.040 --> 01:25:51.640
and how the targets would disappear at

01:25:51.640 --> 01:25:53.862
zero phase . It does it on the , on the

01:25:53.862 --> 01:25:56.359
films also the same way as it turned

01:25:56.359 --> 01:25:58.581
out , I'll have to get , you know , see

01:25:58.581 --> 01:26:00.803
what the prints look like , but . First

01:26:00.803 --> 01:26:02.859
impression is that I didn't see much

01:26:02.859 --> 01:26:04.970
more than what the camera did at zero

01:26:04.970 --> 01:26:07.081
phase , which is going to surprise me

01:26:07.081 --> 01:26:09.359
because I would have thought different .

01:26:09.359 --> 01:26:11.415
Yeah , but that I don't take that as

01:26:11.415 --> 01:26:13.303
any sort of data until I've had a

01:26:13.303 --> 01:26:15.526
chance to really see a blown up print ,

01:26:15.526 --> 01:26:17.526
you know , I'm just looking at some

01:26:17.526 --> 01:26:19.748
negatives in here , but that's my first

01:26:19.748 --> 01:26:21.859
impression . We've always said that .

01:26:21.859 --> 01:26:24.026
The eyeball can see more than the film

01:26:24.026 --> 01:26:26.192
can , but with our particular film , I

01:26:26.192 --> 01:26:27.637
think they're pretty good

01:26:27.637 --> 01:26:27.589
correspondence . Probably gonna be

01:26:27.589 --> 01:26:29.589
about the same . That's great . You

01:26:29.589 --> 01:26:31.811
still need answers . You're insinuating

01:26:31.811 --> 01:26:33.811
we have bad eyeballs . No , we just

01:26:33.811 --> 01:26:37.299
have good film . That's a preliminary

01:26:37.299 --> 01:26:39.620
opinion . Hey , on the sunglasses , I

01:26:39.620 --> 01:26:41.731
guess you got it . As far as I know ,

01:26:41.731 --> 01:26:44.009
nobody even broke their sunglasses out ,

01:26:44.009 --> 01:26:46.176
right ? And you didn't feel you needed

01:26:46.176 --> 01:26:49.399
them . No . Well , I think the only

01:26:49.399 --> 01:26:51.566
time we needed them was when there was

01:26:51.566 --> 01:26:53.677
sun shafting in , but in PTC , if you

01:26:53.740 --> 01:26:55.851
just wait a couple of minutes , it'll

01:26:55.851 --> 01:26:58.529
be gone . It goes away , OK . Uh , Ed ,

01:26:58.649 --> 01:27:01.930
there was a time at 196 hours where we

01:27:01.930 --> 01:27:04.529
lost your , uh , your respiratory , and

01:27:04.529 --> 01:27:07.770
your CPN . Did you notice whether it

01:27:07.770 --> 01:27:09.930
was the , was the , uh , signal

01:27:09.930 --> 01:27:12.097
conditioner disconnected then , or was

01:27:12.097 --> 01:27:14.263
there a sensor ? Or anything ? Did you

01:27:14.263 --> 01:27:16.597
know ? No . There was nothing different .

01:27:16.597 --> 01:27:15.825
It just quit , apparently . It just

01:27:15.825 --> 01:27:17.881
quit , and you couldn't see anything

01:27:17.881 --> 01:27:19.936
obvious as , as to why ? No , I went

01:27:19.936 --> 01:27:22.047
down and went over the whole system .

01:27:22.047 --> 01:27:24.158
Um . We checked the sensors , checked

01:27:24.158 --> 01:27:26.325
the , uh , the belt , uh , checked the

01:27:26.325 --> 01:27:28.729
connection and , We were getting too

01:27:28.729 --> 01:27:30.729
close to entry to really do a great

01:27:30.729 --> 01:27:32.729
deal of troubleshooting , so . No ,

01:27:32.729 --> 01:27:34.840
there was no , no point to do it then

01:27:34.840 --> 01:27:37.062
and , OK , fine . Well , we're going to

01:27:37.062 --> 01:27:39.062
check those things . We never had a

01:27:39.062 --> 01:27:41.173
signal conditioner as such fail , and

01:27:41.173 --> 01:27:41.089
that's one of the things that's sort of

01:27:41.089 --> 01:27:43.033
interesting if it , if it wasn't a

01:27:43.033 --> 01:27:45.200
sensor problem that we want to be sure

01:27:45.200 --> 01:27:47.533
and check those signal conditioners out .

01:27:47.533 --> 01:27:50.779
OK , uh , I think we've got most of

01:27:50.779 --> 01:27:53.020
this mobility , uh , thing done in

01:27:53.020 --> 01:27:55.459
there . I was talking about that biomed

01:27:55.459 --> 01:27:57.681
belt . Let me just say I think my urine

01:27:57.681 --> 01:28:00.250
bag problem , the UCTA problem . It's

01:28:00.250 --> 01:28:02.870
kind of related to that belt in that

01:28:03.209 --> 01:28:05.098
you know the UCTA is held by that

01:28:05.098 --> 01:28:08.029
elastic strap and I think the problem

01:28:08.029 --> 01:28:11.169
in getting that hose length correct has

01:28:11.169 --> 01:28:13.058
to do with the fact that the UCTA

01:28:13.058 --> 01:28:15.391
doesn't always end up in the same place .

01:28:16.009 --> 01:28:18.149
Uh , you try to get it below the belt

01:28:18.569 --> 01:28:20.791
so that it doesn't get on top of it and

01:28:20.791 --> 01:28:22.736
increase the dimension and whether

01:28:22.736 --> 01:28:24.791
you've already done . And I think in

01:28:24.791 --> 01:28:26.958
doing that I probably wore it a little

01:28:26.958 --> 01:28:29.180
more , you know , wore the gun down the

01:28:29.180 --> 01:28:31.291
hip more maybe , uh , in retrospect ,

01:28:31.291 --> 01:28:33.291
if there's some way that that thing

01:28:33.291 --> 01:28:35.513
could be fixed just like it was fixed ,

01:28:35.919 --> 01:28:38.030
then it wouldn't move up and down and

01:28:38.030 --> 01:28:39.919
therefore you can adjust the hose

01:28:39.919 --> 01:28:43.600
length , uh , a little better . It's ,

01:28:44.660 --> 01:28:46.716
I , I wore mine differently . I wore

01:28:46.716 --> 01:28:48.827
mine over the bile belt . That may be

01:28:48.827 --> 01:28:50.993
the difference . Well , I think it's a

01:28:50.993 --> 01:28:52.993
question of . Fixing the , uh , the

01:28:52.993 --> 01:28:55.049
vertical height of that thing so you

01:28:55.049 --> 01:28:57.104
can get the right length of the hose

01:28:57.104 --> 01:28:59.271
because mine was up and down . I think

01:28:59.271 --> 01:28:58.490
when you reached in you probably found

01:28:58.490 --> 01:29:00.850
it was sagging down as a result of

01:29:00.850 --> 01:29:03.089
being full of fluid in one hand , but

01:29:03.089 --> 01:29:05.145
also because I used to wear it below

01:29:05.250 --> 01:29:07.919
the belt on the other . Yeah . But it ,

01:29:08.049 --> 01:29:10.271
his hose had a definite kink in it . It

01:29:10.271 --> 01:29:12.493
came out of the fitting and just made a

01:29:12.493 --> 01:29:14.549
sharp kink and it was bent just like

01:29:14.549 --> 01:29:16.660
you , it's kinked just like you see a

01:29:16.660 --> 01:29:20.250
little . Yeah . Hm . Very good . Did

01:29:20.250 --> 01:29:23.009
you have , did you feel any , uh , real

01:29:23.009 --> 01:29:27.009
dryness of , of skin as such or dryness

01:29:27.009 --> 01:29:29.250
of your lips or or your nose at all ?

01:29:29.330 --> 01:29:31.386
Did you ever have any sensation that

01:29:31.386 --> 01:29:33.879
way during ? Not exceptionally for me .

01:29:34.399 --> 01:29:36.566
I didn't have any obvious sensation of

01:29:36.566 --> 01:29:38.788
dryness . I know , I don't know whether

01:29:38.788 --> 01:29:40.955
the stew did . I noticed his lips were

01:29:40.955 --> 01:29:43.177
cracking about the 4th or 5th day after

01:29:43.177 --> 01:29:45.399
we got back from TEI , but I don't know

01:29:45.399 --> 01:29:47.288
if you got it or not . No , I , I

01:29:47.288 --> 01:29:49.343
didn't feel , uh , dry . In fact , I

01:29:49.343 --> 01:29:51.566
noticed , uh , a cracking in here too .

01:29:51.566 --> 01:29:54.899
Uh , but , uh , no , uh , I didn't ,

01:29:55.680 --> 01:29:57.236
I didn't feel any dryness ,

01:29:57.279 --> 01:30:00.490
particularly at all . OK .

01:30:01.200 --> 01:30:03.879
I think we got these all covered . Uh ,

01:30:04.160 --> 01:30:06.399
did they talk to you about the Phil

01:30:06.399 --> 01:30:09.359
Chapman , uh , wanted to , to tack on

01:30:09.359 --> 01:30:11.470
the light flash thing on , on the end

01:30:11.470 --> 01:30:14.189
of this thing here . So , uh , why

01:30:14.189 --> 01:30:16.411
don't you tell them to come on in and ,

01:30:16.411 --> 01:30:18.633
and , uh , let them get that out of the

01:30:18.633 --> 01:30:20.967
way then . Hey , Chuck , just real fast ,

01:30:20.967 --> 01:30:23.919
um , I know , uh , you , you've got to

01:30:23.919 --> 01:30:26.086
take the data and , and you're looking

01:30:26.086 --> 01:30:28.410
ahead to the longer flights and . Uh ,

01:30:28.470 --> 01:30:30.470
I'm not trying to downplay it , but

01:30:30.470 --> 01:30:32.581
this weight loss , you know , I think

01:30:32.581 --> 01:30:34.637
in my case , uh , I don't want to be

01:30:34.637 --> 01:30:36.692
misconstrued , you know , I was just

01:30:36.692 --> 01:30:36.459
sitting here thinking , you know , I

01:30:36.459 --> 01:30:39.140
weighed less after our field trip to uh ,

01:30:39.149 --> 01:30:41.371
to Iceland than , than I did after this

01:30:41.371 --> 01:30:43.482
flight too , you know , a weight loss

01:30:43.482 --> 01:30:46.310
of me of , uh , of 5 pounds is , is no ,

01:30:46.870 --> 01:30:49.092
just , you know , comes and goes , uh ,

01:30:49.092 --> 01:30:51.259
with no problem at all . Well , that's

01:30:51.259 --> 01:30:53.426
why the body water things are going to

01:30:53.426 --> 01:30:55.648
be pretty important . Yeah . You know ,

01:30:55.648 --> 01:30:57.759
to know , is that really , You know ,

01:30:57.759 --> 01:30:59.981
is it , is it really a total body water

01:30:59.981 --> 01:30:59.950
loss kind of thing that'll , that'll be

01:30:59.950 --> 01:31:03.350
a real important plug to hang on there .

01:31:03.470 --> 01:31:05.637
That's why we'll go over that with you

01:31:05.637 --> 01:31:08.350
so that it is , it is clear . We won't

01:31:08.350 --> 01:31:10.430
have total body water or self or

01:31:10.430 --> 01:31:12.486
exercise your food space until after

01:31:12.486 --> 01:31:14.763
quarantine . That will be done in beta .

01:31:15.859 --> 01:31:18.137
Those are , uh , those are beta meters .

01:31:18.540 --> 01:31:20.540
We're just doing the gamma counting

01:31:20.540 --> 01:31:24.359
here . Why can't we get it out ? I'll

01:31:24.359 --> 01:31:26.526
argue that with you . We're just not ,

01:31:26.526 --> 01:31:29.939
we're just not , uh , equipped . Let's

01:31:29.939 --> 01:31:33.859
get it out . I'll talk

01:31:33.859 --> 01:31:34.859
with you later .

01:31:38.060 --> 01:31:39.893
There's a scientist . Let's go .

01:31:42.990 --> 01:31:46.870
Yeah , there he is . Phil , go out .

01:31:47.649 --> 01:31:49.871
Hey y'all want coffee . I got a big pot

01:31:49.871 --> 01:31:52.038
right here . Yeah , I'm coming over to

01:31:52.038 --> 01:31:55.890
get some now . Oh , suggested that ,

01:31:55.939 --> 01:31:59.000
that , uh , we should tack on a few

01:31:59.000 --> 01:32:01.056
questions about light flashes at the

01:32:01.056 --> 01:32:03.000
end of this briefing . That's what

01:32:03.000 --> 01:32:05.056
we're about to do . What we'd , uh ,

01:32:05.270 --> 01:32:08.509
like to do is to clarify some of the

01:32:08.509 --> 01:32:10.787
subjective impressions that you've got .

01:32:10.787 --> 01:32:12.787
Of what you saw in the way of light

01:32:12.787 --> 01:32:15.660
light flashes and also to um to clarify

01:32:15.660 --> 01:32:17.827
the the conditions under which you saw

01:32:17.827 --> 01:32:19.938
them excuse me , could you stand back

01:32:19.938 --> 01:32:22.160
from the mic just a little bit that's a

01:32:22.160 --> 01:32:24.490
boom you sit right here it'll pick it

01:32:24.490 --> 01:32:25.490
up blast .

01:32:29.899 --> 01:32:33.319
Let's go . You need to get close . You

01:32:33.319 --> 01:32:35.430
should be right . Is there a way that

01:32:35.430 --> 01:32:38.950
the room could be that the room could

01:32:38.950 --> 01:32:42.669
be dark . In a while ,

01:32:43.779 --> 01:32:47.439
a while , OK , the first question we

01:32:47.439 --> 01:32:50.120
got is , um , the streaks that you saw ,

01:32:50.600 --> 01:32:53.040
were they very sharp phenomenon or were

01:32:53.040 --> 01:32:55.479
they rather diffuse like fuzzy ?

01:32:57.120 --> 01:32:59.287
The ones I saw were very sharp . There

01:32:59.287 --> 01:33:01.509
was no mistaking what it was . It was a

01:33:01.520 --> 01:33:04.479
streak so long instantaneously

01:33:04.479 --> 01:33:07.120
disappeared . Yeah , I think that's

01:33:07.120 --> 01:33:10.919
correct . Uh , both , uh , the single

01:33:10.919 --> 01:33:13.100
streak and the double shot , uh ,

01:33:13.439 --> 01:33:15.606
appeared to be very clear to me . They

01:33:16.220 --> 01:33:18.740
were quite clear and I think I made the

01:33:18.740 --> 01:33:22.000
comment over the loop that most of my

01:33:22.000 --> 01:33:24.339
streaks appeared to be on the periphery .

01:33:24.859 --> 01:33:28.220
And for the first several days , I got

01:33:28.220 --> 01:33:31.700
the impression that this direction was

01:33:31.700 --> 01:33:33.939
predominant . Later on , it appeared

01:33:33.939 --> 01:33:36.060
that I don't think I could get that

01:33:36.060 --> 01:33:38.419
good a pattern , but that was my first

01:33:38.419 --> 01:33:40.752
impression for the first couple of days .

01:33:41.200 --> 01:33:43.810
The next question is , uh , was there

01:33:43.810 --> 01:33:45.990
any apparent direction of propagation

01:33:45.990 --> 01:33:48.101
and could you tell it was coming from

01:33:48.101 --> 01:33:50.268
one side to the other , or was it just

01:33:50.268 --> 01:33:52.919
a , a flash ? Several times you did say

01:33:53.899 --> 01:33:56.121
from the left to the right or something

01:33:56.121 --> 01:33:58.343
like that . Tried to correlate it , but

01:33:58.343 --> 01:34:00.121
uh in my case I couldn't really

01:34:00.121 --> 01:34:02.288
correlate a pattern out of it . Yeah ,

01:34:02.288 --> 01:34:04.399
I would think that the time period in

01:34:05.899 --> 01:34:08.121
which we tried to uh report them streak

01:34:08.121 --> 01:34:09.843
by streak , flash by flash was

01:34:09.843 --> 01:34:11.732
representative . And uh it was my

01:34:11.732 --> 01:34:13.788
feeling that it was generally random

01:34:13.788 --> 01:34:15.621
during that time period and uh .

01:34:16.089 --> 01:34:18.311
Therefore , generally random throughout

01:34:18.311 --> 01:34:20.422
the time that we were noticing them .

01:34:20.422 --> 01:34:22.478
No , I meant , uh , could you detect

01:34:22.478 --> 01:34:24.700
that it was moving from one side to the

01:34:24.700 --> 01:34:26.645
other in general . It was , it was

01:34:26.645 --> 01:34:28.756
moving in a specific , a specific , a

01:34:28.756 --> 01:34:30.811
specific flash . Yes , yes , but you

01:34:30.811 --> 01:34:32.867
could see it as it traveled from one

01:34:32.867 --> 01:34:35.089
side to the other . You really think we

01:34:35.089 --> 01:34:34.330
tried to report it that way , didn't we ?

01:34:34.580 --> 01:34:36.580
Yes , you did report that's the way

01:34:36.580 --> 01:34:38.802
puzzling because it happens . It has to

01:34:38.802 --> 01:34:40.858
be very fast , you know . Isn't that

01:34:40.858 --> 01:34:42.747
question kind of redundant then I

01:34:42.747 --> 01:34:42.660
believe you .

01:34:47.879 --> 01:34:49.768
Was there some character to these

01:34:49.768 --> 01:34:52.240
flashes that had some , some aspect of

01:34:52.240 --> 01:34:54.407
direction ? I mean , were they all the

01:34:54.407 --> 01:34:56.629
same rod shaped or were they , did they

01:34:56.629 --> 01:35:00.580
have a tail on them ? Well , what I saw ,

01:35:00.660 --> 01:35:03.100
what I reported as a streak was simply

01:35:03.100 --> 01:35:06.520
that , uh , now maybe the way we

01:35:06.939 --> 01:35:09.720
determined the direction subconsciously

01:35:10.060 --> 01:35:12.660
was that it was a ball of light moving

01:35:12.660 --> 01:35:15.500
in a direction leaving a tail , but I

01:35:15.500 --> 01:35:17.722
don't , I can't say that for sure . All

01:35:17.722 --> 01:35:20.339
I reported was a streak and I had the

01:35:20.339 --> 01:35:22.283
impression . Of it moving from one

01:35:22.283 --> 01:35:24.950
direction to the other and I reported

01:35:24.950 --> 01:35:27.117
that direction and I , I can't clarify

01:35:27.117 --> 01:35:29.228
it much more than that . Did you want

01:35:29.979 --> 01:35:31.979
while you're asking a question , we

01:35:31.979 --> 01:35:34.035
just douse the lights . I think they

01:35:34.035 --> 01:35:36.035
can see this in the dark room , but

01:35:36.035 --> 01:35:38.257
just try it . The idea is to try to see

01:35:38.257 --> 01:35:40.479
whether this is what you saw or similar

01:35:40.479 --> 01:35:42.757
to it . I think you need the light out .

01:35:42.757 --> 01:35:44.812
Well , can you see anything ? Yeah ,

01:35:44.812 --> 01:35:46.812
except that's what it looked like ,

01:35:46.812 --> 01:35:48.757
except it was traveling . In other

01:35:48.757 --> 01:35:50.720
words , uh , it started out and it

01:35:50.720 --> 01:35:53.000
definitely progressed across the field

01:35:53.000 --> 01:35:54.889
of view . Direction of motion per

01:35:54.889 --> 01:35:58.109
individual was it that bright , yeah ,

01:35:58.240 --> 01:36:00.296
except you're not traveling . It was

01:36:00.296 --> 01:36:00.520
traveling .